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(Times of Israel)   Good for the Jews: Someone wants to convert to Judaism. Bad for the Jews: It's Ashton Kutchner   (timesofisrael.com) divider line 82
    More: Amusing, Ashton Kutcher, Mila Kunis, Judaism, kabbalah, Celebrity Dirty Laundry, Demi Moore  
•       •       •

2143 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 29 Mar 2013 at 2:20 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-29 01:21:45 PM  
newslang89.files.wordpress.com

We're on a mission...to convert the JEWWWWWWWWWS.....
 
2013-03-29 01:25:23 PM  
stefpix.com
Kutcher? Feh! Mishegas!
 
2013-03-29 01:41:15 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
Pud
2013-03-29 01:53:41 PM  
While I support anyone finding a faith they believe in, no matter which one it is. "he might convert to Judaism for her" is a recipe for failure.

/OK, now that I've said it. It's time to unleash the atheists.
 
2013-03-29 02:27:22 PM  
How much you want to bet when the moment comes when the rabbi is about to declare Ashton a Jew, he'll remove his clothes to reveal swastikas tattooed all over his body.  PUNKED!
 
2013-03-29 02:28:04 PM  

Pud: While I support anyone finding a faith they believe in, no matter which one it is. "he might convert to Judaism for her" is a recipe for failure.

/OK, now that I've said it. It's time to unleash the atheists.


Nah, they are too busy with all the Good Friday threads today, this barely registers.
 
2013-03-29 02:30:22 PM  
Kutchner? Isn't it supposed to be Kutchnowitz?
 
2013-03-29 02:30:31 PM  
dopponline.com
At least this religion is Fat Free.
 
2013-03-29 02:34:59 PM  
Subby here.

Most of you have maybe seen me in Israel threads from time to time since I'm a former reporter who now lives in Israel and likes to provide objective, non-derp information about life here that goes beyond the far-left and far-right. Anyway, the other part of the story: I converted to Judaism almost ten years ago and can tell people what it's like both in Judaism generally and Israel specifically. (LONG story!)

But the question still remains: Should I be proud or embarrassed that Kutchner may convert? ;)

And for the record: I'm not like a Former Farker Who Shall Not Be Named. He was born Jewish and was secular, but he became Orthodox later and was very active here. As you may infer, I'm not Orthodox since I am posting on Friday night here in Israel.
 
2013-03-29 02:43:24 PM  

bostonguy: Should I be proud or embarrassed that Kutchner may convert?


Checks wikki
"Christopher Ashton Kutcher (ˈkʊtʃər; born February 7, 1978), known professionally asAshton Kutcher, is an American actor,
 producer, former fashion model, comedian, and human trafficking abolitionist"

Ehhh. You could be, subby, you could be.
Proud, that is.
 
2013-03-29 02:43:48 PM  
He's probably just hoping to land another gig with Chuck Lorre a.k.a. Charles Michael Levine after 2 1/2 dipshiats is cancelled.
 
2013-03-29 02:48:01 PM  

vudukungfu: human trafficking abolitionist"


Well, it is true that Israel, for various reasons, has sex-trafficking problems. Maybe he could help!

In central and north Tel Aviv (read: where the tourists are), the sidewalks are littered with advertisements for escorts. Ugh.
 
2013-03-29 02:49:49 PM  
More bacon for me.
 
2013-03-29 02:52:43 PM  

bostonguy: Subby here.

Most of you have maybe seen me in Israel threads from time to time since I'm a former reporter who now lives in Israel and likes to provide objective, non-derp information about life here that goes beyond the far-left and far-right. Anyway, the other part of the story: I converted to Judaism almost ten years ago and can tell people what it's like both in Judaism generally and Israel specifically. (LONG story!)

But the question still remains: Should I be proud or embarrassed that Kutchner may convert? ;)

And for the record: I'm not like a Former Farker Who Shall Not Be Named. He was born Jewish and was secular, but he became Orthodox later and was very active here. As you may infer, I'm not Orthodox since I am posting on Friday night here in Israel.


Why would you be embarrassed or proud? Did you create him? No? Then who cares? Are you embarrassed by Madonna's conversion to Judaism? Sammy Davis Jr's?
 
2013-03-29 02:54:22 PM  
Didn't Ashton Kutcher own a 'car' that was bigger than Israel back in the day?
If so, then if he pops over there to do Ulpan or just do that thing at the wall, won't he crush everything and totally break the whole country with his 'car'?
 
2013-03-29 02:55:26 PM  
From what I have seen he's already "trimmed" so he's got that out of the way.
 
2013-03-29 02:56:09 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Why would you be embarrassed or proud? Did you create him? No? Then who cares? Are you embarrassed by Madonna's conversion to Judaism? Sammy Davis Jr's?


For the record: Sammy Davis Jr. officially converted to Judaism. Madonna did not -- she just started practicing a quasi-cultish, pop-culture form of Kabbalah.

One is proud or embarrassed whenever anyone joins your group (whatever it may be) because his or her later actions then reflect on your group.
 
2013-03-29 02:56:49 PM  
He's rich and he's in the entertainment industry.  What about this is a surprise?

/one, please
 
2013-03-29 03:04:51 PM  
i.theloop.ca
 
2013-03-29 03:05:49 PM  
As a jew, you guys can keep him (we'll keep Mila though)

The Rabbi Says NO

www.tog.co.il
 
2013-03-29 03:11:23 PM  
Just for the jokes?
 
2013-03-29 03:26:08 PM  

Pud: While I support anyone finding a faith they believe in, no matter which one it is. "he might convert to Judaism for her" is a recipe for failure.

/OK, now that I've said it. It's time to unleash the atheists.


I'd say so in general, but a friend converted to marry another friend and I'll go full Satmar (kneesocks, breeches, stupid hat and all) before they get divorced, so I dunno.

// she also got a boob job - I think it was his engagement present to her
// I don't think that's generally a conversion requirement, though
// and yes, she had requested it
 
2013-03-29 03:26:30 PM  
I have no use for Kutcher since he came out against human trafficking.

I think people should be allowed to drive where they want to....
 
Pud
2013-03-29 03:35:59 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Pud: While I support anyone finding a faith they believe in, no matter which one it is. "he might convert to Judaism for her" is a recipe for failure.

/OK, now that I've said it. It's time to unleash the atheists.

I'd say so in general, but a friend converted to marry another friend and I'll go full Satmar (kneesocks, breeches, stupid hat and all) before they get divorced, so I dunno.

// she also got a boob job - I think it was his engagement present to her
// I don't think that's generally a conversion requirement, though
// and yes, she had requested it


I didn't say it never works. It just usually doesn't. Good luck,love and happiness to your friends. And I'm pulling for you to never have a need for the kneesocks, breeches, stupid hat and all. Spring is coming, I would suggest a good cookout with good friends drinking a little more than they probably should. But that's just me.
 
2013-03-29 03:49:48 PM  

bostonguy: Subby here.

Most of you have maybe seen me in Israel threads from time to time since I'm a former reporter who now lives in Israel and likes to provide objective, non-derp information about life here that goes beyond the far-left and far-right. Anyway, the other part of the story: I converted to Judaism almost ten years ago and can tell people what it's like both in Judaism generally and Israel specifically. (LONG story!)

But the question still remains: Should I be proud or embarrassed that Kutchner may convert? ;)

And for the record: I'm not like a Former Farker Who Shall Not Be Named. He was born Jewish and was secular, but he became Orthodox later and was very active here. As you may infer, I'm not Orthodox since I am posting on Friday night here in Israel.


Off topic, Is your faith recognized in Israel?

I thought you had to be, or at least convert under orthodox rules to be considered legally jewish in Israel.
 
2013-03-29 03:50:16 PM  

uncleacid: More bacon for me.


he'll probably be one of them half assed Jews who eat pork, use the internet on the Sabbath, and want to give all of Israel to Osama bin Laden.
 
2013-03-29 03:52:31 PM  
How do you convert to a different ethnicity?
 
2013-03-29 03:59:10 PM  

bostonguy: Subby here.

Most of you have maybe seen me in Israel threads from time to time since I'm a former reporter who now lives in Israel and likes to provide objective, non-derp information about life here that goes beyond the far-left and far-right. Anyway, the other part of the story: I converted to Judaism almost ten years ago and can tell people what it's like both in Judaism generally and Israel specifically. (LONG story!)

But the question still remains: Should I be proud or embarrassed that Kutchner may convert? ;)

And for the record: I'm not like a Former Farker Who Shall Not Be Named. He was born Jewish and was secular, but he became Orthodox later and was very active here. As you may infer, I'm not Orthodox since I am posting on Friday night here in Israel.


To answer your question, you shouldn't care.

Proud? Why? Did you have something to do with his decision?

Embarrassed? There are a lot of Jews. One conversion doesn't reflect on all of us.

This isn't any different than finding out he wears the same brand pants you do or buys the same kind of matzoh.
 
2013-03-29 04:00:09 PM  

liam76: Off topic, Is your faith recognized in Israel?

I thought you had to be, or at least convert under orthodox rules to be considered legally jewish in Israel.


This is where it gets complicated. My conversion in America years ago was Reform (for theological reasons too complicated to explain here). The State of Israel recognized me as a Jew for immigration purposes (I could become a citizen automatically). However, the Rabbinate -- which is in charge of religious and life-cycle events such as weddings and burials -- does not recognize me as a Jew because it is run by (ultra-)Orthodox rabbis, who do not recognize non-Orthodox conversions.

So, it leaves me in a tough spot. I can live here, get a job and health insurance and a government-mandated pension and such, but I cannot get officially married in Israel (as a Jew) because Orthodox Jews do not recognize me as Jewish.

The division between the State and the Rabbinate stems from political divisions and compromises made decades by David Ben-Gurion when he was the first prime minister of the newly-reconstructed State of Israel. The consequences of those compromise are still being worked out today. Essentially, the State and the Rabbinate have two different definitions of "Who is a Jew."
 
2013-03-29 04:05:43 PM  
 
2013-03-29 04:07:53 PM  

Eunuch Provocateur: How do you convert to a different ethnicity?


The simple answer is that Judaism is both a religion and an ethnicity. It stems from a pre-Christian mindset. A Greek would worship some Greek deities, a Norseman would worship some Norse deities, and so on. It is a more-modern idea that a person of any given ethnicity can be a member of any given religion. One can "become" Jewish through either birth (ethnicity) or choice (religious choice).

The extended answer is that a convert to Judaism is a member of the Jewish religion and an adopted member of the Jewish tribe (or family, or whatever). Officially, a convert takes on the name of "XXXX son of Abraham" so that he "becomes" a member (though adopted) of the family of Abraham. In a mystical, Kabbalistic context, a convert is someone whose soul had always been Jewish but whose soul had somehow been mistakenly placed in a non-Jewish body.

Take from that what you will.
 
2013-03-29 04:09:21 PM  
Kutchner converting? What's next, that Hitlner guy?
 
2013-03-29 04:09:23 PM  

bostonguy: liam76: Off topic, Is your faith recognized in Israel?

I thought you had to be, or at least convert under orthodox rules to be considered legally jewish in Israel.

This is where it gets complicated. My conversion in America years ago was Reform (for theological reasons too complicated to explain here). The State of Israel recognized me as a Jew for immigration purposes (I could become a citizen automatically). However, the Rabbinate -- which is in charge of religious and life-cycle events such as weddings and burials -- does not recognize me as a Jew because it is run by (ultra-)Orthodox rabbis, who do not recognize non-Orthodox conversions.

So, it leaves me in a tough spot. I can live here, get a job and health insurance and a government-mandated pension and such, but I cannot get officially married in Israel (as a Jew) because Orthodox Jews do not recognize me as Jewish.

The division between the State and the Rabbinate stems from political divisions and compromises made decades by David Ben-Gurion when he was the first prime minister of the newly-reconstructed State of Israel. The consequences of those compromise are still being worked out today. Essentially, the State and the Rabbinate have two different definitions of "Who is a Jew."


I thought the state recognition was set up by the rabbinate, thanks for the info.
 
2013-03-29 04:15:06 PM  

mcmnky: Embarrassed? There are a lot of Jews. One conversion doesn't reflect on all of us.


You're correct. In my opinion, the actions of any given convert should not reflect on any given religion as a whole. But noting human nature, it does.

Say someone coverts to Judaism (or any other religion) and then falls away and publishes some inane blog about how horrible Judaism (or any other religion) is. And so on. The masses will give him or her credibility because "he was in the inside" (no matter how stupid or inane the observations). Judaism, noting its history, is very sensitive to outside attacks. So people worry about the ramifications about converting someone. It's basically a worry about PR, which is what I deal with in my day (non-Jewish) job.
 
2013-03-29 04:23:06 PM  

liam76: I thought the state recognition was set up by the rabbinate, thanks for the info.


My pleasure! I love Farkers (well, except the trolls!), so anything I can do to contribute to the knowledge-level is welcomed by me. :)
 
2013-03-29 04:39:28 PM  

bostonguy: But the question still remains: Should I be proud or embarrassed that Kutchner may convert? ;)


I think it would depend on the manner of conversion. If he wants to convert because he really thinks that Judaism is truly the way for him and spends the year studying, does the mikvah, the bet din, the whole megillah (literally) then sure, welcome, pick up your tefillin, tallit, and a bagel on your way out.

This being Fark here are some picture of hot Jewish converts:

www.biography.com
images.starpulse.com

lowdownblog.files.wordpress.com

rustnbones.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-03-29 05:02:32 PM  
At least it isn't Lindsay Lohan.
 
2013-03-29 05:08:52 PM  

bostonguy: liam76: Off topic, Is your faith recognized in Israel?

I thought you had to be, or at least convert under orthodox rules to be considered legally jewish in Israel.

This is where it gets complicated. My conversion in America years ago was Reform (for theological reasons too complicated to explain here). The State of Israel recognized me as a Jew for immigration purposes (I could become a citizen automatically). However, the Rabbinate -- which is in charge of religious and life-cycle events such as weddings and burials -- does not recognize me as a Jew because it is run by (ultra-)Orthodox rabbis, who do not recognize non-Orthodox conversions.

So, it leaves me in a tough spot. I can live here, get a job and health insurance and a government-mandated pension and such, but I cannot get officially married in Israel (as a Jew) because Orthodox Jews do not recognize me as Jewish.

The division between the State and the Rabbinate stems from political divisions and compromises made decades by David Ben-Gurion when he was the first prime minister of the newly-reconstructed State of Israel. The consequences of those compromise are still being worked out today. Essentially, the State and the Rabbinate have two different definitions of "Who is a Jew."


1. That's racist.
2. Why would anyone want to live in a place constantly under the threat of attack?
 
2013-03-29 05:30:25 PM  

bostonguy: This is where it gets complicated. My conversion in America years ago was Reform (for theological reasons too complicated to explain here). The State of Israel recognized me as a Jew for immigration purposes (I could become a citizen automatically). However, the Rabbinate -- which is in charge of religious and life-cycle events such as weddings and burials -- does not recognize me as a Jew because it is run by (ultra-)Orthodox rabbis, who do not recognize non-Orthodox conversions.

So, it leaves me in a tough spot. I can live here, get a job and health insurance and a government-mandated pension and such, but I cannot get officially married in Israel (as a Jew) because Orthodox Jews do not recognize me as Jewish.


Can't you just convert to Orthodoxy and then backslide?
 
2013-03-29 05:34:05 PM  

MadSkillz: 1. That's racist.


I'll leave aside the "racist" comment because it's laden with definitional arguments. I'll leave it with this:

Most (but not all) countries in the world are nation-states -- governmental entities that are tasked with the duty of organizing and helping a society comprised of people of a given ethnicity (or ethnicities). Should not France be primarily concerned with the welfare of the Franks and prioritize them in terms of policies such as immigration? The same holds true for the English and England and the Irish and Ireland and the Russians and Russia and the Jews and Israel. Just as Ireland in the 1990s primarily give citizenship to descendents of Irish emigrants, so does Israel do the same for Jewish immigrants.

Whether this is good or fair is up for debate. What remains is that it is what is. People naturally define themselves by ethnicity -- look at the self-segregation into neighborhoods that occurs in any major U.S. city.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is likely an American who lives in a state is not comprised of a single nation and operates outside of the traditional paradigm. And such people do not recognize the reality in which most of the rest of the world operates.
 
2013-03-29 05:37:54 PM  

MadSkillz: 2. Why would anyone want to live in a place constantly under the threat of attack?


I have this discussion with my parents in America a lot. It's nothing like as it appears on the news.

Here's an analogy. You live in New England or Florida. Every few years, you get his by a Nor'easter or hurricane. Do you leave your home because of it? No. You absorb the damage and rebuild whenever it happens. The cycle becomes part of your regular life. The positives of living there on a day-to-day basis outweigh the negatives of what occurs every once in while. The positive of living in your home outweighs the negatives of everything else.
 
2013-03-29 05:46:05 PM  

macadamnut: Can't you just convert to Orthodoxy and then backslide?


Thanks for the good question!

Here's the answer (just from my personal experience).

1. The Orthodox conversion process is strict and time-consuming. Rabbis here wanted me to spend a year minimum in a yeshiva (religious school) to do an Orthodox conversion. That's essentially a full-time gig in Israel. Sorry, but I have rent, bills, and student loans to pay. I need to work for a living. Another rabbi wanted me to pay NIS 100 (roughly $25) an hour for private tutoring.

2. Rabbis check up on you. If you pretend to be "religious" or do an Orthodox conversion, the Rabbinate frequently spies on you (as in the case of "religious" women who claim military-service exemptions and are then found to go out and smoke on Shabbat -- actions that are forbidden in Orthodox Judaism). Despite traditional Orthodox rulings that allow this action to be forbidden, the ultra-Orthodox here have ruled that conversions can be annulled after the fact (ex post facto?) if someone is seen to be non-compliant with their interpretation.

3. I just cannot be intellectually dishonest. Call it a character flaw. I cannot promise to adhere to a given set of dogma and practices when I have no intention of doing so.
 
2013-03-29 06:02:03 PM  

bostonguy: vudukungfu: human trafficking abolitionist"

Well, it is true that Israel, for various reasons, has sex-trafficking problems. Maybe he could help!

In central and north Tel Aviv (read: where the tourists are), the sidewalks are littered with advertisements for escorts. Ugh.


There are just as many in south Tel Aviv, where the tourists aren't. I live there, I know.
 
2013-03-29 06:03:19 PM  

Nogale: bostonguy: vudukungfu: human trafficking abolitionist"

Well, it is true that Israel, for various reasons, has sex-trafficking problems. Maybe he could help!

In central and north Tel Aviv (read: where the tourists are), the sidewalks are littered with advertisements for escorts. Ugh.

There are just as many in south Tel Aviv, where the tourists aren't. I live there, I know.


Another Israeli Farker favorited! :)
 
2013-03-29 06:07:08 PM  

bostonguy: macadamnut: Can't you just convert to Orthodoxy and then backslide?

Thanks for the good question!

Here's the answer (just from my personal experience).

1. The Orthodox conversion process is strict and time-consuming. Rabbis here wanted me to spend a year minimum in a yeshiva (religious school) to do an Orthodox conversion. That's essentially a full-time gig in Israel. Sorry, but I have rent, bills, and student loans to pay. I need to work for a living. Another rabbi wanted me to pay NIS 100 (roughly $25) an hour for private tutoring.

2. Rabbis check up on you. If you pretend to be "religious" or do an Orthodox conversion, the Rabbinate frequently spies on you (as in the case of "religious" women who claim military-service exemptions and are then found to go out and smoke on Shabbat -- actions that are forbidden in Orthodox Judaism). Despite traditional Orthodox rulings that allow this action to be forbidden, the ultra-Orthodox here have ruled that conversions can be annulled after the fact (ex post facto?) if someone is seen to be non-compliant with their interpretation.

3. I just cannot be intellectually dishonest. Call it a character flaw. I cannot promise to adhere to a given set of dogma and practices when I have no intention of doing so.


Calm and rational responses. Is this Bizarro Fark?
 
2013-03-29 06:11:21 PM  

wallywam1: Calm and rational responses. Is this Bizarro Fark?


I do what I can to help Internet discourse on my niche area of expertise. :)
 
2013-03-29 06:26:30 PM  
He'll fit right in. He has a lot of money in investments and he's in Hollywood anyway. It was bound to happen sooner or later.
 
2013-03-29 06:31:49 PM  
s1.evcdn.com

Judyism?
 
2013-03-29 06:31:51 PM  

TeddyRooseveltsMustache: He'll fit right in. He has a lot of money in investments and he's in Hollywood anyway. It was bound to happen sooner or later.


And another troll and/or derper. Next? My kingdom for another intelligent question.
 
2013-03-29 06:37:20 PM  
Well, it's not the worst news the Jews have ever had.
 
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