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(The Hill)   Obama uses his executive power to take your guns. No, not really. Yet   (thehill.com) divider line 500
    More: Scary, President Obama, Sandy Hook Elementary School, Mayors Against Illegal Guns, law enforcement officials, scientific methods, semiautomatic firearms, Richard Feldman, NRA  
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3829 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Mar 2013 at 11:06 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-29 12:20:19 PM  

heypete: Mugato: Yeah, God forbid we have actual background checks to enforce the laws we already have about people trying to buy guns who are actual felons and actual psychos.

Indeed. Unfortunately, the proposed "universal background check" bill proposed by Sen. Schumer (S.374) goes well beyond that into the realm of criminalizing common stuff by criminalizing a lot of "temporary transfer of possession" rather than "transfer of ownership": if my wife and I are shooting on private property or on BLM land (this is really common in Arizona, as you can shoot out in the desert) and I hand her one of my guns to shoot, that's a federal crime. If I go over to a buddy's house and he wants to see one of my guns and I hand it to him, that's a federal crime (I could own hand it to him in my own house, not his). If someone is traveling on business for more than a week and leaves their gun with their roommate, that's a federal crime. This lawyer discusses some of the issues with the law, as does this site.

People aren't necessarily opposed to requiring background checks on private transfers, they're opposed to flawed, overreaching bills like S.374.

chiett: Good luck with all of that.
Take the 30+ round magazines, full auto weapons, and the really scary "military" style weapons.
Then enforce the laws on the books.

And finally leave my shiat alone.

Considering that 30+ round mags are overwhelmingly used for lawful purposes and have only been used in a handful of crimes (where they often fail, as they're not terribly reliable, as seen in Aurora), why should they be restricted?

When was the last time a legal full-auto weapon was used in a crime? Are the few that exist in private hands and are owned responsibly by collectors really a problem? Do you really think that someone's going to take their $10,000+ legal machine gun and go hold up a 7-Eleven? Why is that even an issue?

The 'really scary "military" style weapons', like the AR-15, are the most commonly-owned guns in the country an ...


THIS
 
2013-03-29 12:21:01 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: If criminals were entirely cut off from access to guns tomorrow demand, sales and profits would plummet for gun manufacturers.


encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2013-03-29 12:21:20 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: You need a dangerous device permit. A $200 item. My form and fingerprints are already on file with the ATF.


Not exactly. You do need a tax stamp for the transfer, yes, and it does cost $200.

Each NFA item requires a separate Form 4, payment of the tax, background check, fingerprints, local law enforcement approval, etc. If you own 5 NFA items you need to go through the process 5 times -- they don't just skip certain parts because you're already in the system.

/NFA owner
 
2013-03-29 12:22:26 PM  

BayouOtter: Car_Ramrod:

But not this. You having a gun kid doesn't keep me safe in any way, shape, or form. I'll be damned if I'll pay for your hobby child.

So you're against taxes for schools if your kid doesn't go there, or roads you don't drive on, etc?

And actually, my having a gun does keep you safe (in the home or CC), because the criminals do not know who is armed, and are less likely to engage in a violent confrontation. When Flordia passed their concealed carry laws, they becan to notice a trend - a spike in crime against tourists. The criminals shifted away from Florida residents, partly because they now had no way to know if they would meet the end of a gun.


Schools create smart kids which improves society in general. Study after study has shown that the more schooling a kid has, the less likely they are to become a criminal. So yes, schools do keep society safer. As far as roads, I need roads across the country to transport products and services so they are accessible to me. Whether that makes me safer... well it measurably makes this country better by increasing economic activity, which does tend to decrease crime everywhere.

I'd like to read about that concealed carry - tourism connection if you happen to have a link handy. I tried a quick google but didn't see anything and I'm lazy. But I will ask how a criminal necessarily knows the difference between a resident and a tourist. I personally credit my safety to police presence in my neighborhood and being in a generally middle class area. But that's me.
 
2013-03-29 12:22:33 PM  

heypete: Marcus Aurelius: You need a dangerous device permit. A $200 item. My form and fingerprints are already on file with the ATF.

Not exactly. You do need a tax stamp for the transfer, yes, and it does cost $200.

Each NFA item requires a separate Form 4, payment of the tax, background check, fingerprints, local law enforcement approval, etc. If you own 5 NFA items you need to go through the process 5 times -- they don't just skip certain parts because you're already in the system.

/NFA owner


Its pretty clear this guy knows nothing about the NFA and is just making stuff up.
 
2013-03-29 12:23:48 PM  
Checks are fine; government should just stop trying to ban them.
 
2013-03-29 12:23:50 PM  

BayouOtter: Right, because the manufacturers make all their money from stolen guns, obviously. Just like how Ford makes money from stolen car chop-shops!


Most of it comes from scared white men who have been conditioned to have a gut response to seeing a news piece about a violent crime, or gun control legislation, of  A)BUY MOARS GUNZ!, and  B) vote and protest to expand police powers.

You think gun manufacturers  don't profit from heightened social unrest?
 
2013-03-29 12:24:42 PM  
Besides....didn't the AGs office put out a paper that claimed the same thing that firearm owners are claiming?  That criminals will not seek out legal transfers and that UBC might even force more guns to be transfered without background checks?

Obama also mentioned that 40% stat the other day. A talking point taken from a study done the year after background checks were mandated with all firearms purchases. The study is flawed and so is the talking point because if the person survyed bought their firearm before implementation of background cheks odds are they could answer that they never had gone through a background check.

Maybe the gun control crowd would get more cooperation if they didn't resort to flawed studies (just like with the medical bankruptcies study during the health care debate. If you owed 1000 bucks or more in medical costs they considered that a medical bankruptcy while ignoring the 90k in credit card debt that actually put you in bankruptcy).

But the gun control corwd will never be honest. If they were honest they would not have any legs to stand on since the data does not help their cause.
 
2013-03-29 12:25:53 PM  
Oh good the whack a doodles are going to drive the farking price of ammunition up again. I really hate those right wing scared retards. The worst part about them is they buy huge amounts of ammo, but rarely go to the range, which screws the rest of us who enjoy shooting sports, like to spend time at the range, and rarely keep more then a box on hand.
 
2013-03-29 12:26:12 PM  
Car_Ramrod:
Schools create smart kids which improves society in general. Study after study has shown that the more schooling a kid has, the less likely they are to become a criminal. So yes, schools do keep society safer. As far as roads, I need roads across the country to transport products and services so they are accessible to me. Whether that makes me safer... well it measurably makes this country better by increasing economic activity, which does tend to decrease crime everywhere.

So yeah, socialism works, thank you.

I'd like to read about that concealed carry - tourism connection if you happen to have a link handy. I tried a quick google but didn't see anything and I'm lazy. But I will ask how a criminal necessarily knows the difference between a resident and a tourist.

They look for rental cars, mostly. I'll dig around a bit.

I personally credit my safety to police presence in my neighborhood and being in a generally middle class area. But that's me.


Batesian mimicry is also your friend. The criminal doesn't know if you've a gun or not, so he's less likely to get in a direct confrontation.
 
2013-03-29 12:26:15 PM  
The president has used his executive powers to bolster the national background check system, jumpstart government research on the causes of gun violence

I give you modern republicans - a people so in love with the literal definition of 'conservative' that they are against learning new things.
 
2013-03-29 12:27:11 PM  
that bosnian sniper:
You think gun manufacturers  don't profit from heightened social unrest?

That wasn't the claim. Leave those goalposts alone.
 
2013-03-29 12:27:35 PM  

Giltric: If you want to stay safe by making sure dangerous people do not get a hold of a firearm than chip in....just like the costs of police are cocialized, just like fire departments, just like social safety nets that keep the poors from robbing you.

/im rubber youre glue
//infinity +1


Police and fire departments are a community expenditure, because you never know when you're going to need it. It's like insurance.

But a background check is a very specific cost from a very specific, pre-planned activity (gun purchasing). If I own a car, I buy extra insurance because I know if can be dangerous. If I go skydiving or bungee jumping, those are specific actions that require specific regulations, waivers, and fees to ensure safety.

What I'm saying is police presence and fire coverage are passive and communal, whereas buying a gun is active and personal. You don't need to own a gun. If you want one, pay for it and everything that comes with it.
 
2013-03-29 12:28:35 PM  

heypete: 30+ round mags are overwhelmingly used for lawful purposes


heypete: they often fail, as they're not terribly reliable


hahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 
2013-03-29 12:28:42 PM  

johnryan51: It's scary that they get so afraid.


Almost childlike, isn't it?
 
2013-03-29 12:28:52 PM  

BayouOtter: Philip Francis Queeg:
They profited from the original sale of every gun. If criminals were entirely cut off from access to guns tomorrow demand, sales and profits would plummet for gun manufacturers.

I'm not following your logic. Spell it out for me.


There are an estimated 200,000,000 guns in the US. Some gun manufacturer profited from the original sale of each and every one of those guns. a portion of those guns, and a portion of the overall demand for those guns is from criminals. If not for the demand from criminals, there would be fewer gun sales. Fewer gun sales mean lower profits for the gun manufacturers.

Let's take two examples.

1.  Your stolen gun example: One of your guns is stolen. Do you do without that weapon or do you buy a new one? Probably you replace it with a new one. The gun manufacturer profits.
2. The more important example, straw purchases. A convicted felon wants a gun. He/she pays someone without a record to purchase the gun for them. The gun manufacturer profits.

Regulations which would effectively limit straw purchases are directly detrimental to gun manufacturers since they would limit demand and sales of their product. They, and their representatives in the NRA, will oppose any regulation which threatens to do so.
 
2013-03-29 12:29:46 PM  

violentsalvation: Dinki: BayouOtter: I can't hunt rabbits and deer with the same gun.

So you need a high caliber rifle for big game, a small caliber for small game, a shotgun for birding. and one pistol for self defense. Maybe another for plinking/target shooting. That makes 5. Still doesn't explain those people that have 2 or 3 versions of ar-15s, 6-7-8 different semi-auto pistols, and assorted other guns. It's beyond need, beyond simple hobby, and into obsession.

No it isn't. I mean, it can be, there are actual nuts out there armed to the teeth, but for the most part it is just a collection like the sewing machines. I never really understood the concern about how many guns I own as long as I am owning them and not turning them right out on the street as a straw buyer. It's not like I'm going to grow 20 more arms to bear arms with and become some death murder massacre machine, I can still only use one at a time.


Exactly and if you like shooting sports you tend to acquire the gear, like any other sport, and in this case it is guns. Sometimes you purchase guns that you barely ever use, just because it was fun, sometimes you inherit your fathers or grandfathers guns and suddenly you have "too many".
 
2013-03-29 12:30:07 PM  
Virginia Tech: 32, Handguns (Nineteen 10- and 15- round magazines)
Newtown: 26, AR-15 (used handgun to kill self)
Killeen: 23, Handguns
San Ysidro: 21, Handgun, Shotgun, Uzi Carbine
Austin: 17, shotguns, rifles, handguns
Edmond: 14, handguns
Columbine: 13, handguns, shotguns, carbine (Thirteen 10-round magazines)
Binghamton: 13, handguns
Ft. Hood: 13, handguns
Camden: 13, handgun
Dishonorable mention: Aurora: 12, AR-15 (100-round magazine), shotgun, handguns (58 wounded)

The most popular long-arm in America, the "military-style" "assault weapon" AR-15, despite being available for civilian purchase for 50 years, has managed to make the top-11 US mass shootings list twice, and only once as the primary creator of casualties. And not even #1. And in BOTH cases, the "high-capacity" magazine jammed.

On the other hand, there is one consistent thing throughout that list... maybe an AR-15 isn't the best weapon to use against unarmed civilians and forcing people to use another weapon only makes things worse.
 
2013-03-29 12:32:32 PM  

vygramul: Virginia Tech: 32, Handguns (Nineteen 10- and 15- round magazines)
Newtown: 26, AR-15 (used handgun to kill self)
Killeen: 23, Handguns
San Ysidro: 21, Handgun, Shotgun, Uzi Carbine
Austin: 17, shotguns, rifles, handguns
Edmond: 14, handguns
Columbine: 13, handguns, shotguns, carbine (Thirteen 10-round magazines)
Binghamton: 13, handguns
Ft. Hood: 13, handguns
Camden: 13, handgun
Dishonorable mention: Aurora: 12, AR-15 (100-round magazine), shotgun, handguns (58 wounded)

The most popular long-arm in America, the "military-style" "assault weapon" AR-15, despite being available for civilian purchase for 50 years, has managed to make the top-11 US mass shootings list twice, and only once as the primary creator of casualties. And not even #1. And in BOTH cases, the "high-capacity" magazine jammed.

On the other hand, there is one consistent thing throughout that list... maybe an AR-15 isn't the best weapon to use against unarmed civilians and forcing people to use another weapon only makes things worse.


Oh, can I guess?

The crazy nutball mass killer? Is that the common thread?

Like in these incidents:
Unknown : 95 : Our Lady of the Angels School fire
Jin Ruchao : 108 :  Shijiazhuan with an ill-synced bomb attack (4 bombs that went off at once)
Zhang Pilin : 112 : crashed China Northern Airlines Flight 6136 with a cabin fire
Robert Dale Segee : 200+ : Arson
Kim Dae-han, a 56 year old half-paralyzed man: 198 : Daegu subway fire
Gameel Al-Batouti : 217 : Cause a plane crash.
Adilson Marcelino Alves : 300+ : Arson
 Li Xianliang managed : 17 people : A Tractor (While Drunk)
William Unek :  21 people, axe

That's like two minutes on google. In the absence of a gun, for whatever reason, a nutball murderer will still kill people. They will kill a lot of people.

Guns aren't the problem. Nutball murderers are. 'Gun Control' won't keep them from killing people, the best case is that it will change their method - at great cost, financially, socially, and to liberty.

I might even argue that the presence of firearms lowers the bodycounts of nutball murderers. A gun is very psychologically attractive, as its direct approach favors their narcissistic empowerment. Thus the gun is selected over other, indirect methods like arson. These indirect methods are more effective at racking up bodycounts, but generally less desirable to the non-rational nutball.

Thus the presence of arms causes the nutball to self-select a method that is sub-optimal for mass killings, resulting in lower bodycounts.
 
2013-03-29 12:32:40 PM  

Karac: The president has used his executive powers to bolster the national background check system, jumpstart government research on the causes of gun violence

I give you modern republicans - a people so in love with the literal definition of 'conservative' that they are against learning new things.


I thought it was children of single moms (NSFW Language) that caused gun violence.
 
2013-03-29 12:34:19 PM  

Jackson Herring: heypete: 30+ round mags are overwhelmingly used for lawful purposes

heypete: they often fail, as they're not terribly reliable

hahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


Yes? Have I said something that's incorrect?

While 30+ round mags (like the 100 round Beta-C mag) aren't nearly as common as their more standard-capacity counterparts, the vast majority of those in private hands are used for lawful purposes, mostly recreational shooting. Very few are used in crime.

They're not nearly as reliable as more traditional box magazines, as they have more moving parts, complex geometry, etc.
 
2013-03-29 12:34:25 PM  

BayouOtter: vygramul: Virginia Tech: 32, Handguns (Nineteen 10- and 15- round magazines)
Newtown: 26, AR-15 (used handgun to kill self)
Killeen: 23, Handguns
San Ysidro: 21, Handgun, Shotgun, Uzi Carbine
Austin: 17, shotguns, rifles, handguns
Edmond: 14, handguns
Columbine: 13, handguns, shotguns, carbine (Thirteen 10-round magazines)
Binghamton: 13, handguns
Ft. Hood: 13, handguns
Camden: 13, handgun
Dishonorable mention: Aurora: 12, AR-15 (100-round magazine), shotgun, handguns (58 wounded)

The most popular long-arm in America, the "military-style" "assault weapon" AR-15, despite being available for civilian purchase for 50 years, has managed to make the top-11 US mass shootings list twice, and only once as the primary creator of casualties. And not even #1. And in BOTH cases, the "high-capacity" magazine jammed.

On the other hand, there is one consistent thing throughout that list... maybe an AR-15 isn't the best weapon to use against unarmed civilians and forcing people to use another weapon only makes things worse.

Oh, can I guess?

The crazy nutball mass killer? Is that the common thread?

Like in these incidents:
Unknown : 95 : Our Lady of the Angels School fire
Jin Ruchao : 108 :  Shijiazhuan with an ill-synced bomb attack (4 bombs that went off at once)
Zhang Pilin : 112 : crashed China Northern Airlines Flight 6136 with a cabin fire
Robert Dale Segee : 200+ : Arson
Kim Dae-han, a 56 year old half-paralyzed man: 198 : Daegu subway fire
Gameel Al-Batouti : 217 : Cause a plane crash.
Adilson Marcelino Alves : 300+ : Arson
 Li Xianliang managed : 17 people : A Tractor (While Drunk)
William Unek :  21 people, axe

That's like two minutes on google. In the absence of a gun, for whatever reason, a nutball murderer will still kill people. They will kill a lot of people.

Guns aren't the problem. Nutball murderers are. 'Gun Control' won't keep them from killing people, the best case is that it will change their method - at great cost, financially, socially, and to liberty.
...


Seems like you know a lot about being a nutball murderer.
 
2013-03-29 12:36:19 PM  
Philip Francis Queeg:
Regulations which would effectively limit straw purchases are directly detrimental to gun manufacturers since they would limit demand and sales of their product.

Yeah, because they care so much about background checks and straw purchases.

They, and their representatives in the NRA, will oppose any regulation which threatens to do so.

The NRA doesn't represent the industry.

The National Shooting Sports Foundation is the trade association for the firearms industry. Its mission is to promote, protect and preserve hunting and the shooting sports. Formed in 1961, NSSF has a membership of more than 7,000 manufacturers, distributors, firearms retailers, shooting ranges, sportsmen's organizations and publishers.
 
2013-03-29 12:36:19 PM  

Communist_Manifesto: Seems like you know a lot about being a nutball murderer.


I bet you know more about pedophilia than he does about nutball murdering.
 
2013-03-29 12:37:17 PM  

BayouOtter: Car_Ramrod:
Schools create smart kids which improves society in general. Study after study has shown that the more schooling a kid has, the less likely they are to become a criminal. So yes, schools do keep society safer. As far as roads, I need roads across the country to transport products and services so they are accessible to me. Whether that makes me safer... well it measurably makes this country better by increasing economic activity, which does tend to decrease crime everywhere.

So yeah, socialism works, thank you.


Well, that's not exactly socialism. But living in a communal society works, yes. But I strongly regret the notion that paying for private citizens to have a gun equates to a communal function.

I'd like to read about that concealed carry - tourism connection if you happen to have a link handy. I tried a quick google but didn't see anything and I'm lazy. But I will ask how a criminal necessarily knows the difference between a resident and a tourist.

They look for rental cars, mostly. I'll dig around a bit.

I personally credit my safety to police presence in my neighborhood and being in a generally middle class area. But that's me.

Batesian mimicry is also your friend. The criminal doesn't know if you've a gun or not, so he's less likely to get in a direct confrontation.


Well here on the North Side of Chicago, there's no conceal carry, and people aren't getting attacked left and right. I should be getting confronted all the time, right?

/South Side is its own ball of wax, they have a lot of problems down there
 
2013-03-29 12:37:19 PM  

BayouOtter: that bosnian sniper:
You think gun manufacturers  don't profit from heightened social unrest?

That wasn't the claim. Leave those goalposts alone.


No, it is. You're just too ideologically-driven, or stupid, not that the two are exclusive, to see it.
 
2013-03-29 12:37:43 PM  
Heypete

First I am a Gun (multiple) owner.

There is NO reason a person (other than Military or Police) NEEDS a 30 round or more magazine for ANY firearm unless you suck at shooting, and are to lazy to reload. What the NRA is scared of (and in a lot of cases justly so) is that once they take that then they take 10 round Mags, then 6 and so on. Domino principle.
 
2013-03-29 12:42:58 PM  

chiett: Heypete

First I am a Gun (multiple) owner.

There is NO reason a person (other than Military or Police) NEEDS a 30 round or more magazine for ANY firearm unless you suck at shooting, and are to lazy to reload.


Nobody needs to have alcohol. It's at best a device of recreational indulgence, and at worst it leads to fatal alcohol-related diseases, DUI fatalities, and untold numbers of beaten spouses and children (and probably drunken crimes in general). The first two account for far more deaths in the country than guns do every year (80K+ vs. 20K+), so why wouldn't you support banning alcohol? Maybe enforcing maximum ounce purchases to ensure nobody gets drunk? Okay, we'll let you get a slight buzz, but nobody needs to down an entire six pack and crash their car into a van with a family in it.

I will say, though, that I don't understand why in one breath you can say a cop needs to have a standard 17 round magazine in his pistol when he has a belt of extra magazines, body armor, and backup, but when Joe American in in his boxers at 2am trying to protect his family a 10 round magazine will do.
 
2013-03-29 12:46:37 PM  

chiett: First I am a Gun (multiple) owner.


Me too.

There is NO reason a person (other than Military or Police) NEEDS a 30 round or more magazine for ANY firearm unless you suck at shooting, and are to lazy to reload. What the NRA is scared of (and in a lot of cases justly so) is that once they take that then they take 10 round Mags, then 6 and so on. Domino principle.

Need really doesn't have anything to do with it. There's a lot of things that people have or do that they don't need. There's no evidence that restricting magazine capacity would have any meaningful effect on crime (mass shooters would just carry more magazines, as they do, and ordinary criminals average less than 5 shots, so they wouldn't really be affected) and it'd only affect law-abiding people. I don't like arbitrary limits, particularly when they're ineffective.
 That said, you're right about the domino effect. New York State is a good example: they recently passed a law that said people can keep the 10 round mags they were allowed to have under a previous restriction but were only legally allowed to load 7 rounds into those 10 round mags. All new magazines need to be a maximum of 7 rounds.
 
2013-03-29 12:46:39 PM  

Dinki: I'm a hardcore computer gamer- I have one PC.


i'm not a gamer. nor am i particularly nerdy. but i have 4 desktop computers in here and a laptop.

which one of us represents gamers/computer geeks best? and why does the number of toys we have matter.
 
2013-03-29 12:47:24 PM  
Because cops have to do it everyday. Joe American doesn't.

And don't even THINK about touching my beer!
 
2013-03-29 12:48:18 PM  

Alphakronik: You want to pass background checks for law abiding Americans?  Pass an executive order that recognizes a Muslim-American's right to bear arms.  Yes, I know they already can, but much like Republicans pointless laws, it would scare the shiat out of the right bad enough that they'd be willing to submit to background checks solely based upon forcing Muslims to be subject to further scrutiny.


...We should do this. Now. Yesterday, if possible.
 
2013-03-29 12:51:52 PM  
The president has used his executive powers to bolster the national background check system, jumpstart government research on the causes of gun violence and create a million-dollar ad campaign aimed at safe gun ownership.

Yeah that's all about "taking your guns."

Fail as usual, subby. inb4 b-b-but satire
 
2013-03-29 12:54:30 PM  

Silly Jesus: He needs to start taking guns away from his Chicago voter base.  That will lower the death numbers really quickly.


B b but I'm a chicago gun owner :(
 
2013-03-29 12:54:50 PM  
Too many of you trust politicians too much.
 
2013-03-29 12:59:04 PM  

scarmig: Too many of you trust politicians too much.


Because the private sector gun lobbies have really come through on this.  All we have to do is grit our teeth through another school massacre every few years.
 
2013-03-29 01:00:37 PM  

whidbey: scarmig: Too many of you trust politicians too much.

Because the private sector gun lobbies have really come through on this.  All we have to do is grit our teeth through another school massacre every few years.


And the government plans would have stopped any of the massacres how exactly?
 
2013-03-29 01:02:26 PM  

Bravo Two: As a gun owner and strong opponent of bans...I'm OKAY with background checks and processes that vet people who buy guns.

I don't care if i have to go through some checks and training in exchange for the right to carry a weapon in public, and while many of my brethren believe that I'm a 2ASINO because I believe that with the right to go armed and own weaponry comes the responsibility to use it responsibly.

I don't give keys to drunk guys, and I support barkeepers requiring people who order stiff drinks taking keys from people.

I don't let kids play around on heavy equipment like tractors and trucks and other such things where they might do something stupid.

I don't let kids play with knives, and supervise kids with sharp objects or guns.

It's just farking responsibility.

Were that the media were half as responsible about what they posted and the aftereffects of same. Were that people were responsible enough to realize that every action has a cause.

Anyway, that's not germane. What is germane is that maybe we can get to a point where gun owners and gun grabbers can agree on ways that enforce the responsibility of firearms and their proper use without equally forcing their view of what is and isn't appropriate on us.


Ah, the ol' gun owners should compromise.  Of course, by compromise you mean give up what we haven't yet let them "compromise" away and people like you feel safer at night.  Some of the laws they're putting forth would mean you couldn't leave your gun home with a roommate if you were on vacation for more than 7 or 10 days, how is that germane?

Also, for all the idiots who think the .gov statistics system would be a good thing, consider that it would be run by the .gov and would never have a chance of putting out legitimate statistics.  They just need new ones that further their agenda; we already have plenty of stats and they say this is all retarded and will do nothing for crime.  Then again, you probably have to have serious cognitive dissonance to not have read those stats and know that already.

We supported you for SOPA/PIPA, but when it comes to an amendment you don't care about, you couldn't care less.  Good luck with that.  A lot of us are starting to turn our backs on being equitable about our views.  Gay marriage?  Go fark yourself.  Free speech?  What do you need it for?

http://www.westernjournalism.com/biden-no-ordinary-american-cares-ab ou t-their-constitutional-rights/

Enjoy thinking they'll stop with the 2nd.
 
2013-03-29 01:05:01 PM  

Freeballin: Enjoy thinking they'll stop with the 2nd.


Because regulation=eliminating Constitutional Amendments

Sit down. Shut up.
 
2013-03-29 01:06:34 PM  
Don't worry guys, it can't happen here.  Dictatorships and authoritarians are a thing of the past.  Society can never collapse.  Let's just turn in all the guns except for hunting rifles.   That's the only reason people could ever need them ever.  Everyone in the red states are just dumb rednecks anyways.  I'm surprised they haven't all accidentally shot themselves in the face by now.

/God you people are smarmy as fark.
 
2013-03-29 01:07:25 PM  

whidbey: scarmig: Too many of you trust politicians too much.

Because the private sector gun lobbies have really come through on this.  All we have to do is grit our teeth through another school massacre every few years.


You're like a real life soccer mom.
 
2013-03-29 01:09:16 PM  

Frank N Stein: whidbey: scarmig: Too many of you trust politicians too much.

Because the private sector gun lobbies have really come through on this.  All we have to do is grit our teeth through another school massacre every few years.

You're like a real life soccer mom.


No, but you've proven that you're incapable of contributing honest discussion to this topic.  Yeah that goes past "unwilling."
 
2013-03-29 01:10:25 PM  

dehehn: Don't worry guys, it can't happen here.  Dictatorships and authoritarians are a thing of the past.  Society can never collapse.  Let's just turn in all the guns except for hunting rifles.   That's the only reason people could ever need them ever.  Everyone in the red states are just dumb rednecks anyways.  I'm surprised they haven't all accidentally shot themselves in the face by now.

/God you people are smarmy as fark.


Fantasy talk does not equate to honest discussion either.
 
2013-03-29 01:15:03 PM  

Bravo Two: ilambiquated: [inspirably.com image 380x333]

oh look, it's you again.  Here to spout meaningless platitudes instead of engaging in meaningful conversation? I noticed you didn't bother to show up to the last thread where we had an actual reasonable conversation on the topic.


Let me guess, Jeremy?
 
2013-03-29 01:15:10 PM  
The president has used his executive powers to bolster the national background check system, jumpstart government research on the causes of gun violence and create a million-dollar ad campaign aimed at safe gun ownership.

Interesting how the stuff he does is far more level headed than the Left pushes for. He really is trying to be a bipartisan President, it would seem. None of these are a bad thing, as I see it.
 
2013-03-29 01:15:27 PM  
excellent "journalism" in this totally non-misleading article:


Obama uses executive power to move gun control agenda forwardBy Jordy Yager -  03/29/13 06:00 AM ETPresident Obama is quietly moving forward on gun control.


The president has used his executive powers to bolster the national background check system, jumpstart government research on the causes of gun violence and create a million-dollar ad campaign aimed at safe gun ownership.
 
2013-03-29 01:15:40 PM  

Freeballin: We supported you for SOPA/PIPA, but when it comes to an amendment you don't care about, you couldn't care less.  Good luck with that.  A lot of us are starting to turn our backs on being equitable about our views.  Gay marriage?  Go fark yourself.  Free speech?  What do you need it for?

http://www.westernjournalism.com/biden-no-ordinary-american-cares-ab ou t-their-constitutional-rights/

Enjoy thinking they'll stop with the 2nd.


Honest question: What are you talking about?
 
2013-03-29 01:15:53 PM  

heypete: They're not nearly as reliable as more traditional box magazines, as they have more moving parts, complex geometry, etc.


So then you should want to get rid of these unsafe magazines, right? You don't want that sh*t to fail in a key moment, right?
 
2013-03-29 01:17:20 PM  

Mikey1969: The president has used his executive powers to bolster the national background check system, jumpstart government research on the causes of gun violence and create a million-dollar ad campaign aimed at safe gun ownership.

Interesting how the stuff he does is far more level headed than the Left pushes for. He really is trying to be a bipartisan President, it would seem. None of these are a bad thing, as I see it.


"Interesting" how you've decided "the Left" isn't for the same kinds of solutions, like enforceable background checks and a national registry.
 
2013-03-29 01:17:27 PM  

Mikey1969: The president has used his executive powers to bolster the national background check system, jumpstart government research on the causes of gun violence and create a million-dollar ad campaign aimed at safe gun ownership.

Interesting how the stuff he does is far more level headed than the Left pushes for. He really is trying to be a bipartisan President, it would seem. None of these are a bad thing, as I see it.



That is the craziest thing about it.  Does anyone seriously contend that those three items are bad things?

Oh wait, I forgot.  We're dealing with the gun-crazy right, who view any attempt to "discriminate against guns" (a.k.a., inanimate objects designed to kill things) as a full-frontal assault on liberty and the constitution itself.
 
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