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(Planet F1)   You knew it was going to happen: Red Bull Racing announce Sebastian Vettel did nothing wrong in Malaysia and if anything, he deserves a promotion   (planetf1.com) divider line 35
    More: Followup, Red Bull Racing, Christian Horner, Vettel, Mark Webber, Malaysia, Red Bull  
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1478 clicks; posted to Sports » on 29 Mar 2013 at 8:39 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



35 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-03-29 08:53:57 AM  
Let's hope that Webber treats it with the dignity it deserves. But only if Seb can still walk afterwards.
 
2013-03-29 08:56:16 AM  
Annnnnnnnnnd Webber to Ferrari (or Nascar?) this offseason.
 
2013-03-29 08:57:48 AM  

sephjnr: Let's hope that Webber treats it with the dignity it deserves. But only if Seb can still walk afterwards.


Exactly.  If I were Seb, I woudn't go anywhere near Webber on the track.  It'll end badly for him and the "team".
 
2013-03-29 08:58:23 AM  

soopey: Annnnnnnnnnd Webber to Ferrari (or Nascar?) this offseason.


i seriouly doubt nascar.
 
2013-03-29 09:02:23 AM  

Freakin Rican: soopey: Annnnnnnnnnd Webber to Ferrari (or Nascar?) this offseason.

i seriouly doubt nascar.


I seriously doubt he'd go to Ferrari. I was being sarcastic.

Maybe V8 Supercars?
 
2013-03-29 09:15:51 AM  
I don't watch F1, so I don't get why everyone was so upset that a guy passed his teammate to win a race. Was he supposed to stay behind him and block other cars or something?
 
2013-03-29 09:27:12 AM  

oh_please: I don't watch F1, so I don't get why everyone was so upset that a guy passed his teammate to win a race. Was he supposed to stay behind him and block other cars or something?


The teams try to control a lot of what their two drivers do.  It's laid out fairly blatantly in this quote from the team's manager:

And although Horner would not like to see a repeat of Red Bull's Sepang drama, he concedes that he cannot always control his drivers.
"At times you do not have control of them, as much as you would like to. All you rely on is that they respect each other, the team and the equipment.
 
2013-03-29 09:40:13 AM  
Can someone have a spring fly off their car and hit Vettle in the head a la Massa?

Please?
 
2013-03-29 09:45:48 AM  
When Barrichello let Schmucher pass him to win back in 2002 it was a major scandal.  Now a teammate actually competes like they should, and it's a major scandal.

Nice sport you got there.
 
2013-03-29 09:49:09 AM  

oh_please: I don't watch F1, so I don't get why everyone was so upset that a guy passed his teammate to win a race. Was he supposed to stay behind him and block other cars or something?


Here's the NFL / College Football equivalent.  The team on offense is losing by a lot, and the game is already over.  The defense (the team winning by a lot) now recovers a fumble and is going to score a long TD.  There is a convoy of defense players as blockers, and the offense can't catch them.  The slow middle linebacker that recovered the fumble is looking at his teammates grinning ear to ear that he's about to score, something that will happen only a few times in his career, so he slows down a little - is no longer at a 100% sprint.  And just then, one of his own teammates, a quick defensive back (also last year's Defensive Player of the Year,) slaps the ball out of the linebackers hands, picks it up, and scores the TD.

No big deal right, good initiative by the DB to pad his own stats, and it don't matter because his team would have won the game anyway.
 
2013-03-29 10:17:32 AM  

oh_please: I don't watch F1, so I don't get why everyone was so upset that a guy passed his teammate to win a race. Was he supposed to stay behind him and block other cars or something?


It was coming up to the end of the race. The 2 Red Bulls had a comfortable lead over the 2 Mercedes. Both team principles asked the drivers to dial it back and cruise home - the number of engines per season is limited, so it's in the team's interests to save unnecessary wear on the engines.

Webber and Vettel also have taken each other out a few times in the past, and that, of course is the worst possible result for the team. It's also possible that Seb would have pushed his tyres too hard - the Pirellis are designed to do well for so many laps, then degrade quickly, to add another element to the racing.

Basically Seb put the team at major risk of going from maximum points to zero points.

Marcus Aurelius: When Barrichello let Schmucher pass him to win back in 2002 it was a major scandal.  Now a teammate actually competes like they should, and it's a major scandal.

Nice sport you got there.


Yeah it's similar. The difference, to me, is where the cynicism behind the orders lies. In Ferrari's case, the cynicism lies with the order to let Schumi by. The cynicism with this incident fails squarely with Vettel making a very risky move against his team's orders, for the glory of 7 extra points for himself.

Poor sportsmanship in both cases, in my opinion.
 
2013-03-29 10:25:25 AM  
Vettel, being the favorite child, will always get a pass for his bad behavior.  This incident is just one more reason to hope that one of the rolling chicanes will wreck the wunderkind.
 
2013-03-29 10:29:04 AM  
 
2013-03-29 10:50:07 AM  
I'd like to see Webber in an Indycar. V8 super car or WEC is more likely though.
 
2013-03-29 11:07:22 AM  
He's the high-paid, 3-time defending champion lead driver for the team. There was absolutely zero chance that he would be disciplined for his actions in favor of Mark Webber. That doesn't make it any less of a dick move.

I hope Webber races him to within an inch of his life the rest of the year. It's not like he'll be back with Red Bull next year after this, and they'll have to keep him no matter what because they'll never find another half-decent water carrier during the season. Webber needs to disobey team orders every chance he gets and skim a few points off Vettel. Vettel may be great, but he needs to learn some humility.
 
2013-03-29 11:24:48 AM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: I hope Webber races him to within an inch of his life the rest of the year.


He can try.  But the team can just put him out in a shiatty car to make sure he can't get close to pull crap like that.

Such a crappy state of F1.
 
2013-03-29 11:31:58 AM  
Right or wrong, if Webber doesn't think he's a #2 driver, then he's friggin delusional.
 
2013-03-29 11:38:14 AM  

afghanwhiggle: Right or wrong, if Webber doesn't think he's a #2 driver, then he's friggin delusional.


It's not about that. It's about how he followed orders, expecting a rare win which he earned, only to have Vettel decide that he was going to go against orders and steal the race win from Webber. Even a number 2 driver should get a bone thrown to him every once in a while, a reward for being a water carrier. This was Webber's, and it was stolen from him. Now there is a fractured team, which in an alleged team sport like F1 is a recipe for disaster. Even the star has to follow the rules at some point.
 
2013-03-29 12:16:06 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: afghanwhiggle: Right or wrong, if Webber doesn't think he's a #2 driver, then he's friggin delusional.

It's not about that. It's about how he followed orders, expecting a rare win which he earned, only to have Vettel decide that he was going to go against orders and steal the race win from Webber. Even a number 2 driver should get a bone thrown to him every once in a while, a reward for being a water carrier. This was Webber's, and it was stolen from him. Now there is a fractured team, which in an alleged team sport like F1 is a recipe for disaster. Even the star has to follow the rules at some point.


Like Webber at the BGP in '11?
 
2013-03-29 12:46:45 PM  

afghanwhiggle: Adolf Oliver Nipples: afghanwhiggle: Right or wrong, if Webber doesn't think he's a #2 driver, then he's friggin delusional.

It's not about that. It's about how he followed orders, expecting a rare win which he earned, only to have Vettel decide that he was going to go against orders and steal the race win from Webber. Even a number 2 driver should get a bone thrown to him every once in a while, a reward for being a water carrier. This was Webber's, and it was stolen from him. Now there is a fractured team, which in an alleged team sport like F1 is a recipe for disaster. Even the star has to follow the rules at some point.

Like Webber at the BGP in '11?


Yes, he relented from passing Vettel after he was reminded a second time not to. What's your point?
 
2013-03-29 01:32:43 PM  

lunchinlewis: Adolf Oliver Nipples: I hope Webber races him to within an inch of his life the rest of the year.

He can try.  But the team can just

put him out in a shiatty car to make sure he can't get close to pull crap like that.

Such a crappy state of F1.


Not a chance when there is a constructor's championship to win. He's already gotten the short end of the stick as far as development goes (and has been vocal about it in the past), but I doubt they'd go anywhere beyond that in actually making sure that his car's performance is sub-Vettel's. They'll keep him exactly where he needs to be to maximize the chances of them scoring 1-2.
 
2013-03-29 01:38:46 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: afghanwhiggle: Right or wrong, if Webber doesn't think he's a #2 driver, then he's friggin delusional.

It's not about that. It's about how he followed orders, expecting a rare win which he earned, only to have Vettel decide that he was going to go against orders and steal the race win from Webber. Even a number 2 driver should get a bone thrown to him every once in a while, a reward for being a water carrier. This was Webber's, and it was stolen from him. Now there is a fractured team, which in an alleged team sport like F1 is a recipe for disaster. Even the star has to follow the rules at some point.


Racing is still about being the 1st to cross the finish line, correct?  How did Webber "earn" a win if he was not the 1st across the line?  Its not like he was taken out or wrecked.

You didn't earn the win when your competition is told to not compete, you were given a win.
 
2013-03-29 01:48:17 PM  

006deluxe: Not a chance when there is a constructor's championship to win. He's already gotten the short end of the stick as far as development goes (and has been vocal about it in the past), but I doubt they'd go anywhere beyond that in actually making sure that his car's performance is sub-Vettel's. They'll keep him exactly where he needs to be to maximize the chances of them scoring 1-2.


I don't entirely disagree.  I was just following the train of thought that had Webber driving around trying to mess with Vettel out of spite.  If Webber really started acting up like that they team would have to take action.

And like you said, #2 drivers already give up quite a bit to the #1's needs.  Just decide the team needs two strategies at each track and put Webber out completely off sequence with Vettel.
 
2013-03-29 01:49:04 PM  

bostonbd: You didn't earn the win when your competition is told to not compete, you were given a win.


They were both told to turn down their engine settings to save the engines.

Weber did, Vettel didn't. That gave Vettel an advantage he wouldn't have had if Weber also ignored team orders.
 
2013-03-29 01:54:08 PM  

digistil: afghanwhiggle: Adolf Oliver Nipples: afghanwhiggle: Right or wrong, if Webber doesn't think he's a #2 driver, then he's friggin delusional.

It's not about that. It's about how he followed orders, expecting a rare win which he earned, only to have Vettel decide that he was going to go against orders and steal the race win from Webber. Even a number 2 driver should get a bone thrown to him every once in a while, a reward for being a water carrier. This was Webber's, and it was stolen from him. Now there is a fractured team, which in an alleged team sport like F1 is a recipe for disaster. Even the star has to follow the rules at some point.

Like Webber at the BGP in '11?

Yes, he relented from passing Vettel after he was reminded a second time not to was unable to make a move stick. What's your point?


FTFReality.  Vettel was much faster both times.  He got out of DRS range two laps after passing Webber, so you can't really say he had business staying ahead.  And he definitely didn't earn a win.
 
2013-03-29 02:00:25 PM  
It's a farking race. If you can't be faster than the other guy, you don't deserve to win.
 
2013-03-29 02:05:52 PM  
I'm starting to think that Christian Horner and Ross Braun are in cahoots to make the team orders so blatant that Bernie and Todty have to change the rules.   You know, to make sure they confirm they understand the message.
 
2013-03-29 02:14:02 PM  

abhorrent1: It's a farking race. If you can't be faster than the other guy, you don't deserve to win.


When you follow team orders to slow down and your teammate doesn't, who is really the faster guy?
 
kab
2013-03-29 02:23:00 PM  

abhorrent1: It's a farking race. If you can't be faster than the other guy, you don't deserve to win.


I do enjoy watching now and then, but you must admit that F1 is more of an auto-tech parade with the occasional highlight reel pass now and then.   If you want to see actual racing, cut the number of wheels in half.
 
2013-03-29 02:43:01 PM  

PowerSlacker: abhorrent1: It's a farking race. If you can't be faster than the other guy, you don't deserve to win.

When you follow team orders to slow down and your teammate doesn't, who is really the faster guy?


Well I don't agree with that either. Don't tell anyone to slow down. Let the fastest guy win the race.
 
2013-03-29 02:58:12 PM  

kab: but you must admit that F1 is more of an auto-tech parade with the occasional highlight reel pass now and then.   If you want to see actual racing, cut the number of wheels in half.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-29 03:56:37 PM  

UNC_Samurai: kab: but you must admit that F1 is more of an auto-tech parade with the occasional highlight reel pass now and then.   If you want to see actual racing, cut the number of wheels in half.


Don't worry about Kimi, he knows what he's doing.
 
2013-03-29 04:17:59 PM  

bostonbd: Racing is still about being the 1st to cross the finish line, correct? How did Webber "earn" a win if he was not the 1st across the line? Its not like he was taken out or wrecked.


No, F1 is about getting as many constructors championship points as possible. By not staying behind Webber he

1. Risked running out of fuel (all F1 cars are under fueled for the race) and not finishing
2. Risked wrecking his tyres, forcing another pit stop and therefore three to four places (the tyres are designed to last only so much before they fall apart)
3. Risked contact with his team mate taking both of the out (as has happend many times before)
4. Risks wearing out his engine and gearbox forcing a replacement that will demote him to the back of the grid (teams are only allowed 8 engines and gearboxes a year)
5. Both drivers agreed/were told that after the last pit that was how they were going to finish

You are getting paid by the team, you do what the team says as they have much more information than you do. Its called profesionalism and going against this is asshattery of the highest order and only the fact he is the blue eyed boy of the owner of RBR is protecting him. F1 is a team sport and if you want the rest of the team to back you up you back them up.
 
2013-03-29 04:24:33 PM  
 
2013-03-29 07:09:02 PM  

kab: abhorrent1: It's a farking race. If you can't be faster than the other guy, you don't deserve to win.

I do enjoy watching now and then, but you must admit that F1 is more of an auto-tech parade with the occasional highlight reel pass now and then.   If you want to see actual racing, cut the number of wheels in half.


Yeah, the 'teamwork' in MotoGP always works out better...

<img src="i171.photobucket.com
 
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