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(NBC News)   Government says 80% of scooters and electric wheelchairs Medicare buys go to lazy fat people   (vitals.nbcnews.com) divider line 187
    More: Obvious, Medicare, motorized wheelchairs, medical necessity, means of transportation, leading company, lung disease, obesity, Medicare fraud  
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8197 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Mar 2013 at 7:29 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-29 12:46:23 AM

Gyrfalcon: It seems the Mayo Clinic agrees more


Bolding parts at random and pretending the other words don't exist does not back up the absolute claim of gluttony/sloth that we're pointing out as false.
 
2013-03-29 12:55:14 AM

pounddawg: I'm fat because my knees and back are bad

No. Your knees and back are bad because you are fat.


Spoken by a person who never had to exercise for a living.  Our laborers and military veterans salute you, with one finger.
 
2013-03-29 01:07:09 AM

MaliFinn: pounddawg: I'm fat because my knees and back are bad

No. Your knees and back are bad because you are fat.

Spoken by a person who never had to exercise for a living.  Our laborers and military veterans salute you, with one finger.


This. My knees are absolutely shredded from sports, general usage, and bad joints running in my family. But you couldn't stop me from running around on a regular basis. I'll go hiking- armed with ace bandages and Motrin, but I'll GO. As long as I have mobility, I'm ok with suffering for it later.
 
2013-03-29 01:15:16 AM
"What they're implying is that you can use these scooters to leave the house, to socialize, to get to bingo."

wait?  the scooters will steadfastly refuse to take you to bingo?
 
2013-03-29 01:56:53 AM
I worked at a doctor's office and there was a patient who was trying to get a scooter through disability. The doctor I worked for wanted the patient to get out and walk and with diet and exercise she would have a better quality of life. Needless to say he refused to sign off on the scooter.  She complained to his boss and got her scooter.
 
2013-03-29 02:05:01 AM

Doom MD: Banned on the Run: i_dig_chicks: I used to work for a company the supplied powerchairs.  It's not that easy to get Medicare to pay for these even for people that really need them.

Your company isn't trying hard slimy enough.

I (as a doc) get these requests all the time from companies that advertise "We'll give you your chair for free, and if Medicare doesn't cover it, it's still yours!"

I had a patient who needed just a walker but got one of these.  The chair company sent the form back to me 4 times, as how I filled it out would not get the chair approved, each time more specific about how they needed it filled out (highlighted sections, post-it notes).  The last time I had to write "This patient does not require a power chair" in the margin.

farking thieves.

Drives me goddamn nuts. Even worse lately are the skeezy diabetic supply outfits from Florida. I had one patient they were faxing over 4 forms a week for who wasn't even a diabetic.


Miami mostly? My wife sells capital medical equipment and we used to live in FL. Always enjoyed the stories of sketchy docs, mostly in miami who ran blood tests all the time just because it was profitable. I hate to stereotype but it was mostly latin people. Different culture I suppose.
 
2013-03-29 02:09:46 AM

kiwimoogle84: but I'll GO. As long as I have mobility, I'm ok with suffering for it later.


As time goes on, you'll notice that "later" bit gets sooner and sooner and maybe lasts longer as well

You'll probably notice it within five-ten years.  Then it'll seem to plateau but it's just a slow downgrade(as long as you don't further damage it) from normal wear and tear.  Within another ten years you'll certainly be avoiding some things, possibly many except special occasions, and it gets progressively worse from there if you insist on using it.

/have a big family and I'm the youngest, seen all their ailments catch up with them, the ones that played sports were the worst off by far,
//just getting to that point now where I'm noticing suffering for it sooner
 
2013-03-29 02:11:35 AM

MaliFinn: pounddawg: I'm fat because my knees and back are bad

No. Your knees and back are bad because you are fat.

Spoken by a person who never had to exercise for a living.  Our laborers and military veterans salute you, with one finger.


As a guy who got away with only some hard labor while working through college but still wound up with 2 bulging discs I can understand this. I was 24 then and 8 years later it still bothers me if I am not careful.

Lived on percs and rum for a solid month after it happened. Two handles a week isn't bad right?
 
2013-03-29 02:16:30 AM

Dinjiin: One more reason why medical devices and prescription drugs should not be allowed to advertise.  If you need a scooter, your GP should bring it up, not the other way around.


They don't just advertise, they're relentless. Somehow I got on a mailing list for a scooter company, and I've been sending their business-reply envelopes back with increasingly vitriolic comments, but so far I've been unable to convince them that I'm quite able-bodied and have utterly no need for a scooter. I'm thinking I'm going to have to climb a tree and send them a picture of me perched in the branches to convince them, because so far, nothing else has.
 
2013-03-29 03:03:48 AM

acad1228: WhippingBoy: Is anyone allowed to use those courtesy scooters at WalMart and/or Costco?

/just askin'


Yep, anyone can use 'em. I hate the fact that I have to use one. I developed a severe form of arthritis in my teens and my ability to walk has been diminishing year by year. It's all I can do to hobble on my crutches or my walker from the handicapped spaces to the front of the store.
   Our local Walmart polices this pretty well and keeps the kids off of them. Still. some people abuse them.
I've learned that the best time to get to Walmart is early in the morning while the carts are fully charged and the dullards are still asleep.
   I may well be part of the 20% who need a power chair (I have one, which I paid for) but I only use it when the pain is at its worst.


You make me very pessimistic about my future.

/At least my arthritis started in my hands (mostly my right hand, which was the one directly injured the worst), thus ensuring mobility is the last to go.
//The downside, of course, being that while mobile, I will be incapable of doing just about any f*cking thing with my hands.
 
2013-03-29 04:52:17 AM
This thread is funny. Never will I have to fear obesity. I am 35, and my morning breakfast consists of close to 1500 calories, most of which is fat. My diet from there moves more towards the Atkins plan. While I do eat a fair share of carbs, I overload on protein. I eat peanut butter from the jar with a spoon as a snack. I have never weighed more than 185 pounds, which, at 6' 4", is my ideal weight. In truth, I've been on a gaining diet since puberty.
 
2013-03-29 04:55:29 AM
Oh, and 7% body fat as of last Saturday. /skinny bastard//ha ha!
 
2013-03-29 06:14:27 AM

Gwyrddu: Gergesa: I forget what it was called but awhile ago there was an anime movie where a company produced a sort of mobile health care unit for the elderly.  The unit would provide medical care while at the same time taking the elderly patient out for exercise.  The plot line involved a nurse who was assigned to oversee a patient that was put into one of these units(the unit somehow acquired the personality of his deceased wife) and the unit went crazy and refused to obey its program directives.

Instead, through a series of comical events, it took its patient on a wild and crazy ride through the city and eventually the company CEO(who was a sympathetic character) got involved and had to promise the machine he would handle the elderly with a more human approach.  Oh and the machine squared off against some military version of itself and the two machines battled it out but anyway I am looking forward to when that becomes a reality.

I saw that Anime as well, probably 15 years ago. Damn if I remember what it was called though (It wasn't Gyo).


It was Roujin Z http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102812/

Image for reference
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-03-29 07:43:52 AM
I come home from work at lunchtime and these commercials play constantly.. hoverround takes me where I want to go, the grand canyon or the donkey show.. these wheeled people just seem happier.
 
2013-03-29 09:13:30 AM

Nadie_AZ: Government says 80% of scooters and electric wheelchairs Medicare buys go to lazy fat people who complain incessantly about Big Government waste, taxes and helping the poors.


There aren't enough this-es for this!

I've had conversations with people about this and it's always "they're getting something and i deserve something too."

Then they act like I just want to take from the system even though I pay more in taxes than both my parents combined social security benefits.
 
2013-03-29 10:33:24 AM

rolladuck: WhippingBoy: rolladuck: His desk is the most disgusting place in the building, covered in dead skin...

What the hell????

The way my boss explained it to me is his body is so eaten up with fungal infections caused by diabetes that his skin falls off in waxy clumps.  Since he doesn't clean up anything, his phone, keyboard, monitor, mouse, mousepad and every book he uses to do his job is covered in a yellow, scaly crust.  It is a kind of disgusting that no person should have to deal with in a work environment, and yet, the government is willing to put up with the medical problems he subjects his coworkers to, rather than force him to retire as a medical risk.
The sad thing is, he can be a pleasant person, and he once was.  But he's become so physically disgusting that it magnifies is overall technical ineptitude, and creates one festering pile of filth that walks in, smiles, talks to you, pollutes the air with gas and disease and turns me into a cynical, hateful, angry fark of a man.



I worked with a guy that fits this description pretty well. He also smoked for the first year I knew him. I rode in his car one time trying to make nice. It smelled like a deep, acidic, cheesy, funky smell and I commented on it. He says "oh that's probably just my leg."

He blamed it all on his high blood pressure medicine slowing down his metabolism. And was unable to imagine it could be related to his diet of exclusively fast food.

You description brought back painful memories of that whole time in my life. I feel for you.
 
2013-03-29 10:40:38 AM

rolladuck: WhippingBoy: rolladuck: His desk is the most disgusting place in the building, covered in dead skin...

What the hell????

The way my boss explained it to me is his body is so eaten up with fungal infections caused by diabetes that his skin falls off in waxy clumps.  Since he doesn't clean up anything, his phone, keyboard, monitor, mouse, mousepad and every book he uses to do his job is covered in a yellow, scaly crust.  It is a kind of disgusting that no person should have to deal with in a work environment, and yet, the government is willing to put up with the medical problems he subjects his coworkers to, rather than force him to retire as a medical risk.
The sad thing is, he can be a pleasant person, and he once was.  But he's become so physically disgusting that it magnifies is overall technical ineptitude, and creates one festering pile of filth that walks in, smiles, talks to you, pollutes the air with gas and disease and turns me into a cynical, hateful, angry fark of a man.



Relavant, hopeful story of someone who sounds like that but turned it around -
http://blog.spartanrace.com/my-journey-to-sparta-chris-davis/
 
2013-03-29 11:27:53 AM
omeganuepsilon:
Fun fact, some people eat "right" and do a lot of work/exercise and still gain weight.  But having not read the thread, you probably won't see this either.  The way the body functions, it has a wide variety of things it can do with the food it gets, it is not nearly so simple as haters try to make it sound.

What you're describing is impossible. It doesn't matter what kind of issues you have, you can't get fat unless you take in more calories than you burn. If you get fat, you are by definition eating too much and/or exercising too little. There is no gray area about that fact. Being fat always means at least one of those two things.

Exercise is difficult, and burning a significant number of calories in the process is even more difficult - outright impossible for those with many medical conditions. Eating less is easy if you have even the smallest amount of self-discipline or any capacity for self-denial. You always have the physical ability to shove less food down your gullet. Fat people just lack the will to do so.

Now, if someone makes a conscious decision that they would rather enjoy lots of tasty food in the present than be healthy in the future, then I have no problem with the way they've chosen to live their lives. Just like smokers, it is their right to ruin their bodies in pursuit of temporary pleasure. But when the answer is as simple as "stop eating more food than you need," no fat person has the right to complain about their fatness. And just like with smokers, we have the right to complain about how they pollute our air and drive up our healthcare costs when the inevitable happens and they don't have the decency to die.
 
2013-03-29 11:44:12 AM

Atomic Spunk: The Scooter Store idiots should have learned from those boneheads that used to advertise about tax settlements, where people claimed that they settled with the IRS for pennies on the dollar. When your tagline involves taking advantage of government largesse, you WILL get punished or shut down.


I still see those ads on TV pretty regularly.  I have to draw the conclusion that it would be cheaper to not pay your income tax and hire one of these lawyers to get the IRS to settle for pennies on the dollar.  There's no downside, right?
 
2013-03-29 12:43:49 PM

p51d007: You see the same thing when you drive into any retail store parking lot.  How many times do you
see someone with a handicap placard, or license plate, get out of the vehicle and sprint into the
store?  Doctors give these things out like candy.  I think that if you aren't in a wheelchair, walker,
cane, or a heart condition
, you should be able to shoot em in the foot so they have a REAL NEED
for the handicap placard....unless it means MENTAL handicap.


You don't seem to realize how debilitating Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease can be, do you?  My daughter in her 20's is constantly taking inhalers and breathing treatments, and even walking short distances can render her barely able to breath.  Feel free to glare at her though as her healthy appearing self gets out of her car in the handicapped spot, since you seem to think every handicap is visible to the naked eye.  Of course, you did list heart condition in your criteria - that's not visible either, is it?  So how do you know the person you're judging doesn't have it?
 
2013-03-29 12:46:04 PM

DrExplosion: You always have the physical ability to shove less food down your gullet. Fat people just lack the will to do so.


Your "perfect" argument lacks 2 ideas.

They assume perfect knowledge and mental function.

Comatose people have the physical ability to tie their shoes, anyone who doesn't tie their shoes just lacks the will.

Newsflash: Brain function plays a huge roll in what we are able to accomplish.  It is a limiting factor for a lot of people, in a wide variety of ways.  This amount of people is so numerous that people are only half joking when they say "Everyone has one mental problem or another."

/speaking of not having the decency to die
//walk in front of a bus moran
 
2013-03-29 01:01:08 PM

MrSteve007: I think one big problem with scooters is that they're made very, very cheaply, don't hold up to daily use, and are pretty expensive. As the article points out, it doesn't help with 90% of the people using them are indeed just lazy & obese people.

My brother has chronic progressive MS and has been wheelchair bound for about 15 years now. Since he doesn't have the upper body strength to push a chair, but isn't disabled enough to require a power wheelchair, he rolls around in a scooter. A Pride mobility scooter typically lasts him about 12-18 months before it breaks down (at ~$2,000 a pop, they aren't cheap). Almost everything on them are plastic, including the drive gears. Since they're low to the ground, it isn't uncommon to ground out the bottom and end up chafing and breaking the electrical harness. I wish they'd make them a little more durable.

It's not like my bro is a very big guy - his leg muscles are mostly atrophied. He hates being lumped in with all the scooter/handicapped cheaters out there. Most of those landwhales are also taking up all the handicapped hotel rooms, parking spaces, airplane seats, etc - farking over truly handicapped people.[sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x564]


That you on the right? How you doing?

/Not appropriate?
 
2013-03-29 01:04:38 PM

fortheloveofgod: p51d007: You see the same thing when you drive into any retail store parking lot.  How many times do you
see someone with a handicap placard, or license plate, get out of the vehicle and sprint into the
store?  Doctors give these things out like candy.  I think that if you aren't in a wheelchair, walker,
cane, or a heart condition, you should be able to shoot em in the foot so they have a REAL NEED
for the handicap placard....unless it means MENTAL handicap.

You don't seem to realize how debilitating Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease can be, do you?  My daughter in her 20's is constantly taking inhalers and breathing treatments, and even walking short distances can render her barely able to breath.  Feel free to glare at her though as her healthy appearing self gets out of her car in the handicapped spot, since you seem to think every handicap is visible to the naked eye.  Of course, you did list heart condition in your criteria - that's not visible either, is it?  So how do you know the person you're judging doesn't have it?



Does she "get out of the vehicle and sprint into the store"?

I see people all the time running to and from handicap spots, many have no tag/placard at all. Am I to assume that each and every one of these runners are completely disabled and more deserving of that spot than someone who is unable to get into the store at all without a cane or wheelchair?
 
2013-03-29 01:11:19 PM

omeganuepsilon: Gyrfalcon: It seems the Mayo Clinic agrees more

Bolding parts at random and pretending the other words don't exist does not back up the absolute claim of gluttony/sloth that we're pointing out as false.


She completely shredded your unsubstantiated argument with facts presented in your own link. Bail, dude,
B-A-I-L while you can!
 
2013-03-29 01:17:53 PM

cleveoh: omeganuepsilon: Gyrfalcon: It seems the Mayo Clinic agrees more

Bolding parts at random and pretending the other words don't exist does not back up the absolute claim of gluttony/sloth that we're pointing out as false.

She completely shredded your unsubstantiated argument with facts presented in your own link. Bail, dude,
B-A-I-L while you can!


Not sure if serious.

Like the Medications or medical conditions part?

Yeah, "shredded".
 
2013-03-29 01:27:06 PM

omeganuepsilon: kiwimoogle84: but I'll GO. As long as I have mobility, I'm ok with suffering for it later.

As time goes on, you'll notice that "later" bit gets sooner and sooner and maybe lasts longer as well

You'll probably notice it within five-ten years.  Then it'll seem to plateau but it's just a slow downgrade(as long as you don't further damage it) from normal wear and tear.  Within another ten years you'll certainly be avoiding some things, possibly many except special occasions, and it gets progressively worse from there if you insist on using it.

/have a big family and I'm the youngest, seen all their ailments catch up with them, the ones that played sports were the worst off by far,
//just getting to that point now where I'm noticing suffering for it sooner


I've needed knee replacements since I was 24. I'm holding off until 35-40. I figure by them the technology will be advanced enough and I'll be old enough that they'll last until I die.

Even in pain I can still walk though, I just take slightly longer getting up or down a flight of stairs when the weather is changing. My point is I'm not going to plop myself on the couch and resign myself to becoming a fatty just because my knees hurt. They'd be way worse with a hundred extra pounds.
 
2013-03-29 01:29:30 PM
Ye

omeganuepsilon: cleveoh: omeganuepsilon: Gyrfalcon: It seems the Mayo Clinic agrees more

Bolding parts at random and pretending the other words don't exist does not back up the absolute claim of gluttony/sloth that we're pointing out as false.

She completely shredded your unsubstantiated argument with facts presented in your own link. Bail, dude,
B-A-I-L while you can!

Not sure if serious.

Like the Medications or medical conditions part?

Yeah, "shredded".


Yup, however, I do give you credit for linking to a legitimate site & not one of the "Fat Acceptance" groups.
 
2013-03-29 01:37:34 PM

omeganuepsilon: DrExplosion: You always have the physical ability to shove less food down your gullet. Fat people just lack the will to do so.

Your "perfect" argument lacks 2 ideas.

They assume perfect knowledge and mental function.

Comatose people have the physical ability to tie their shoes, anyone who doesn't tie their shoes just lacks the will.

Newsflash: Brain function plays a huge roll in what we are able to accomplish.  It is a limiting factor for a lot of people, in a wide variety of ways.  This amount of people is so numerous that people are only half joking when they say "Everyone has one mental problem or another."

/speaking of not having the decency to die
//walk in front of a bus moran


Anyone who is not severely retarded is aware that eating lots of food makes you fat, and that you can stop being fat by eating less food. It hardly requires "perfect knowledge." And if someone is so lacking in mental function that they truly can't stop eating, then they're also incapable of feeding themselves in the first place. In that case, it is an abusive caregiver who is forcing them to be fat.

Is it possible that a caregiver would grossly overfeed a severely disabled person? Yes, I have to admit that it is, and I wouldn't even be surprised to see recorded instances of it happening. But it's ridiculous to use such an unlikely scenario as an excuse for the overwhelming majority of people who could stop being fat if they would just limit themselves to one Big Mac a day instead of three.
 
2013-03-29 01:37:42 PM

albatros183: Wish I had a scooter, I'd put a cow catcher on it or maybe a bronze prow to sink other scooters


Newsletter?
 
2013-03-29 01:58:36 PM

DrExplosion: omeganuepsilon: DrExplosion: You always have the physical ability to shove less food down your gullet. Fat people just lack the will to do so.

Your "perfect" argument lacks 2 ideas.

They assume perfect knowledge and mental function.

Comatose people have the physical ability to tie their shoes, anyone who doesn't tie their shoes just lacks the will.

Newsflash: Brain function plays a huge roll in what we are able to accomplish.  It is a limiting factor for a lot of people, in a wide variety of ways.  This amount of people is so numerous that people are only half joking when they say "Everyone has one mental problem or another."

/speaking of not having the decency to die
//walk in front of a bus moran

Anyone who is not severely retarded is aware that eating lots of food makes you fat, and that you can stop being fat by eating less food. It hardly requires "perfect knowledge." And if someone is so lacking in mental function that they truly can't stop eating, then they're also incapable of feeding themselves in the first place. In that case, it is an abusive caregiver who is forcing them to be fat.

Is it possible that a caregiver would grossly overfeed a severely disabled person? Yes, I have to admit that it is, and I wouldn't even be surprised to see recorded instances of it happening. But it's ridiculous to use such an unlikely scenario as an excuse for the overwhelming majority of people who could stop being fat if they would just limit themselves to one Big Mac a day instead of three.


Found myself watching half ton teen once, and there was this kid who was like 600 lbs, and his mom was the enabler- gave him everything he wanted since his dad died to make him happy. She totally tried to justify the groceries she was buying too, like "Oh he likes vegetables too, he loves broccoli with cheese sauce." Woman, that kid didn't get to be three times the size of a normal human from eating broccoli. Snap out of it.
 
2013-03-29 02:15:33 PM

omeganuepsilon: Hell, if a signature of intelligence is the ability to recognize a reality that is larger and more varied than your existence, mankind fails as a whole.


It's as if you're fundamentalists that deny science,  dismiss psychology and medicine/biology as a whole..  Fascinating.

You class as sentient, but are missing that crucial awareness of others.  You know little(or deny) that which is outside of your own view.
I wonder if you would all pass a mirror test.
It's clear you deny the experience and knowledge that does not (perceivedly) come from you, but that you also deny the suffering of others.

Clearly lacking in empathy, you're at least as deviant as sociopath.  I wonder if you meet the requirements of other social deviancy.

DrExplosion: And if someone is so lacking in mental function that they truly can't stop eating, then they're also incapable of feeding themselves in the first place.


False.  Delusional people the world over feed themselves, indeed, manage to live outside of a mental institution.  You're living proof of concept.  As are Westboro Baptists.  The foreign zealots that think if a breast is seen it must be cut off or the woman stoned to death, etc.

Poe's Law of course, you could be simple trolls.  In that case, you sure fooled me, I'm convinced you're mentally handicapped.  Good Jorb.

It's apparent that you have delusion:
A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.[1] As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, or other effects of perception.

But to really count as a disorder it has to negatively impact your life, cause it disorder.  It certainly causes you to rant on the internet.  I am, however, lacking further information. I'd argue that willfully remaining ignorant of the sciences could certainly, even likely, create negative problems.  If I had to bet, Be it the draino you drink, or the harm you inflict on others(and hence punishment from the law or damage from self defense), you likely have plenty of disorder, possibly a danger to yourself and others.

Deserve to be locked up?  Not as I've seen.
Thoroughly analyzed and counseled, certainly.
Own a gun?  Probably shouldn't, for the safety of yourself others.
Spayed or Neutered?  That's a moral argument, but we do it to animals to stop them from breeding and expanding their influence as pests, so one could agrue...
 
2013-03-29 02:44:18 PM

kiwimoogle84: Snap out of it.


Sometimes that can work, but only for the simplest of cases and early enough where thought patterns are not too established.

Very seldom to people just "snap out of it", they got that way from being snapped and there aren't typically easy cures for change. I think this is a misconception stemming from the concept displayed in cartoons.  Character gets hit in the head, and remembers when he'shiat again.  More usually that will result in a concussion or disability.

Demonstration of the flawed theory:  Telling a rape victim to just snap out of it.  To get over it.

I agree, some of it is stupidity.  Like I said, some people can talk themselves into thinking they're doing right.  It's what's known as rationalization.  People rationalize things like racism, bigotry, and even anti-fat people sentiments, as you've witnessed in this thread, and a million other little fallacies.  In actuality it's a defense mechanism.  It's a way of coping with life's woe's and problems.  If we didn't have it, we'd snap more often.

Although, while the human psyche can be resilient in some cases, it an also be brittle and just snap.  Once it snaps, it takes not just effort on her part, but likely therapy and the support of others, and spoiled as the kid is, he'd maybe need assistance as well.

That's why we use the word "spoiled" by the way, no longer good or viable.  Some people are salvagable, they can be repaired, but are not all able to repair themselves.  If that were the case if we were all capable of making a simple decision and sticking to it, fat people depressed they're fat wouldn't mostly stay that way.

It'd be nice if we were all able to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, but that's not the way reality works, it's a fairly rare thing.  Human beings are flawed things, only creationists and similar zealots will argue otherwise.  There are no magical solutions and quite often we can't get to a healthy place by ourselves.

This is why we have doctors and psychologists in the first place, and even they can have flaws and misconceptions or oversights that can hold them back.  They share our limitations.  Were all only human, and while individuals can be great, and the collective can do great things, we are also just animals.

I'm all for being as strong as you can be.  But writing off people who happen to be weaker or troubled as lesser people who can only blame themselves, well, many people don't see that as healthy. Not good for society, not viable, spoiled, one might say.

(Disclaimer: I'm not replying to just you(I know you're kind and understand the concept of the less fortunate and the ill[ie VB thread]), but to the all the concepts involved, can't always cherry pick the fine points out, and those other concepts, they're very thick in this thread).
 
2013-03-29 03:14:08 PM
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
Seniors who use scooters unnecessarily can become sedentary, which can exacerbate obesity and other disorders.
 
2013-03-29 03:22:55 PM

omeganuepsilon: kiwimoogle84: Snap out of it.

Sometimes that can work, but only for the simplest of cases and early enough where thought patterns are not too established.

Very seldom to people just "snap out of it", they got that way from being snapped and there aren't typically easy cures for change. I think this is a misconception stemming from the concept displayed in cartoons.  Character gets hit in the head, and remembers when he'shiat again.  More usually that will result in a concussion or disability.

Demonstration of the flawed theory:  Telling a rape victim to just snap out of it.  To get over it.

I agree, some of it is stupidity.  Like I said, some people can talk themselves into thinking they're doing right.  It's what's known as rationalization.  People rationalize things like racism, bigotry, and even anti-fat people sentiments, as you've witnessed in this thread, and a million other little fallacies.  In actuality it's a defense mechanism.  It's a way of coping with life's woe's and problems.  If we didn't have it, we'd snap more often.

Although, while the human psyche can be resilient in some cases, it an also be brittle and just snap.  Once it snaps, it takes not just effort on her part, but likely therapy and the support of others, and spoiled as the kid is, he'd maybe need assistance as well.

That's why we use the word "spoiled" by the way, no longer good or viable.  Some people are salvagable, they can be repaired, but are not all able to repair themselves.  If that were the case if we were all capable of making a simple decision and sticking to it, fat people depressed they're fat wouldn't mostly stay that way.

It'd be nice if we were all able to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, but that's not the way reality works, it's a fairly rare thing.  Human beings are flawed things, only creationists and similar zealots will argue otherwise.  There are no magical solutions and quite often we can't get to a healthy place by ourselves.

This is why we have docto ...


I'm well aware that people can't get over altered mental states in a snap of fingers, but they do need to realize that they need help, and listen to physicians when they tell them that very thing. It's just a hard place to get to, and it's a shame these people don't seek help when it first becomes a problem- it's a much shallower hole to climb out of.
 
2013-03-29 03:40:33 PM

kiwimoogle84: I'm well aware that people can't get over altered mental states in a snap of fingers, but they do need to realize that they need help, and listen to physicians when they tell them that very thing. It's just a hard place to get to, and it's a shame these people don't seek help when it first becomes a problem- it's a much shallower hole to climb out of.


One physician that tells them they need change isn't enough.  Our perception as a society isn't healthy enough for that.  look at the autism -vs- vaccine debate.  A lot of people listened to one guy, and still a lot of people don't listen to the plethora of evidence against that.  Physicians themselves are held up to a skeptical light, because people don't like to hear news they don't like, and are validated by others that have more legitimate skepticism.

Again, it boils down to flawed human reasoning.

I think it's similar to the gun control debate about the state of mental health care system.  The populace just doesn't care enough to make it better, same with public education.  Sure, we all would support the change, but no one really pushes for it.  There are other concerns, so, despite the growing evidence of problems, we shove it to the side and worry about other things, and it lies forgotten.

Neither is really a vote changing concept at large(people won't change their vote because of other issues they care more about), so even politicians can "afford" to take a neutral stance, and nothing gets done.

The systems falter, or don't grow with the need, then they become stagnant and fetid. It is a self sustaining problem, we lack education, and because of that, we don't see the problem growing, and the problem compounds.

We're still suffering from the mentality of teaching people what to think, now how to think.
 
2013-03-29 05:13:56 PM

pounddawg: I'm fat because my knees and back are bad

No. Your knees and back are bad because you are fat.


This describes my ex-wife's sister to a tee.  She has been morbidly obese all her life, she's only 45 and uses a scooter.
 
2013-03-29 10:57:32 PM
This does not surprise me.
 
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