If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Ottawa Citizen)   Meanwhile, in Canada... couple lose fourth child to the government for something dad did when he was 12. .. wait now... read the rest of it   (ottawacitizen.com) divider line 238
    More: Misc  
•       •       •

34841 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Mar 2013 at 2:53 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



238 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-03-28 01:13:21 PM
Dad? Mom?
 
2013-03-28 01:19:56 PM
The mother being addicted to bingo was the deal-breaker.
 
2013-03-28 01:22:39 PM
5th time's a charm.
 
2013-03-28 01:25:31 PM
The judge noted they had not yet sought help for some of their own admitted problems, namely that the father drinks too much gin and the mother is addicted to bingo.

I bet they also don't think much of Inco either.
 
2013-03-28 01:29:59 PM
I was hoping the headline was a play on words and the story would be about animals. Sadly, it's not.
 
2013-03-28 01:30:17 PM
Some of the animals found in the house had been dead for a while.

Yeah I'm with the judge on this one, if your pets are dying then maybe you're not so much ready for the babby.
 
2013-03-28 01:36:52 PM
Sounds like he lost the kids for what he's been doing, beginning at age 12.
 
2013-03-28 01:37:25 PM
I'm kinda torn on this one - they haven't even had the chance to parent.

But that being said I understand why the government would feel its in the best interest of their children. These guys certainly haven' had a good track record.
 
2013-03-28 01:38:08 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com

...so I can molest them.
 
2013-03-28 01:40:21 PM
I understand all the reasons why they're taking his kids away, and he should probably stop having them until he gets his life back together. However, I will say this:

Because of his sex crimes, he was banned from attending high school and instead took correspondence courses, alone at the kitchen table in the group home. He gave up after Grade 9. "You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.
 
2013-03-28 01:42:39 PM
i don't know about the pedophilia considering he was just a child himself when he allegedly committed them, but

They once lived in a tent at a trailer park.
A child-protection agent reported in 2011 that the state of their home was "deplorable, smelling of urine, feces and other unknown smells and extreme filth."

There was no heat at the home, either.
They've had other problems at home too, with authorities in 2010 seizing around 30 animals from their house. They removed gerbils, mice, rats, snakes, dogs (including one that was in such bad health it had to be put down) and cats.
Some of the animals found in the house had been dead for a while.


isn't an environment to raise kids in.
 
2013-03-28 01:44:13 PM
Even putting aside the sex offense when he was 12, everything about this pair sounds like a disaster.
 
2013-03-28 01:47:46 PM

Car_Ramrod: I understand all the reasons why they're taking his kids away, and he should probably stop having them until he gets his life back together. However, I will say this:

Because of his sex crimes, he was banned from attending high school and instead took correspondence courses, alone at the kitchen table in the group home. He gave up after Grade 9. "You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.


The system he would have been charged under has been replaced, so it's quite possible that the sentencing would no longer include such things.  I am, however, far too lazy to research just what the penalty would be today.
 
2013-03-28 01:52:50 PM

Car_Ramrod: There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.


This is pretty much what I'm stuck on.  They doomed him from the get-go.  Blame Canada, indeed.

Also...what, exactly, DID the guy do at 12?  Or dare I ask?

/they listed the charges, but not what he actually DID
 
2013-03-28 01:58:07 PM
the father drinks too much gin and the mother is addicted to bingo.
 
Are they from Newfoundland?
 
2013-03-28 01:58:09 PM

I_Am_Weasel: Car_Ramrod: I understand all the reasons why they're taking his kids away, and he should probably stop having them until he gets his life back together. However, I will say this:

Because of his sex crimes, he was banned from attending high school and instead took correspondence courses, alone at the kitchen table in the group home. He gave up after Grade 9. "You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.

The system he would have been charged under has been replaced, so it's quite possible that the sentencing would no longer include such things.  I am, however, far too lazy to research just what the penalty would be today.


Well that was 17 years ago, and how the state and people in general view juvenile justice has changed multiple times since then (hell, it's still changing), so I'm sure it is different. It's a tough spot: you don't want there to be no consequences to their actions, but they are still kids, and you don't want their die to be cast so early.
 
2013-03-28 01:58:10 PM

xanadian: Car_Ramrod: There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.

This is pretty much what I'm stuck on.  They doomed him from the get-go.  Blame Canada, indeed.

Also...what, exactly, DID the guy do at 12?  Or dare I ask?

/they listed the charges, but not what he actually DID


They couldn't even keep pets alive. And if the pet died, they didn't even know how to throw them away!

Courts are right. The previous charges were just icing on the cake.
 
2013-03-28 02:44:34 PM
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2013-03-28 02:57:33 PM
Because of his sex crimes, he was banned from attending high school and instead took correspondence courses, alone at the kitchen table in the group home. He gave up after Grade 9. "You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

"And in other news, four pre-teens were arrested and charged as adults in possession of child pornograhy for sexting each other....."
 
2013-03-28 02:58:47 PM
You'd think he would have noticed a pattern after the 2nd or 3rd kid.

"it's the oddest thing; I have a kid and the government takes it away immediately.  What are the odds of it happening a fourth time?"
 
2013-03-28 02:58:57 PM
The couple sound like they have issues with mental health and possibly being developmentally impaired.
 
2013-03-28 02:59:10 PM
"You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

This is not something you want to admit while trying to paint yourself as a victim to the media.
 
2013-03-28 03:01:41 PM
function SOswitchMenu() {var el = document.getElementById('bodyDiv');if ( el.style.display != "none" ) { el.style.display = 'none';}else { el.style.display = '';}var el2 = document.getElementById('h2');if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText";return;}if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText";return;}}function SOframeReload() {var f = document.getElementById('soFrame');f.src = f.src;}
I am ashamed to be from the region.

/so sorry
//no, really, so sorry.
 
2013-03-28 03:02:11 PM
Why can't we just neuter them?
 
2013-03-28 03:02:28 PM
"The father said it was wrong for a court to punish him for future crimes a judge said he was likely to commit."

Welcome to Obama's Canada.
 
2013-03-28 03:02:45 PM
TFA: They've had other problems at home too, with authorities in 2010 seizing around 30 animals from their house. They removed gerbils, mice, rats, snakes, dogs (including one that was in such bad health it had to be put down) and cats.
cdn.dashburst.com
 
2013-03-28 03:03:54 PM

Satanic_Hamster: You'd think he would have noticed a pattern after the 2nd or 3rd kid.

"it's the oddest thing; I have a kid and the government takes it away immediately.  What are the odds of it happening a fourth time?"


I'm just waiting for him to be armed and waiting for the 5th time.

OtherLittleGuy: Because of his sex crimes, he was banned from attending high school and instead took correspondence courses, alone at the kitchen table in the group home. He gave up after Grade 9. "You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

"And in other news, four pre-teens were arrested and charged as adults in possession of child pornograhy for sexting each other....."


Well...they probably didn't have the technology 17 years ago, but yeah, I'm wondering if what he did was along those lines.  Or he diddled another 12-year-old while *being* 12 himself.  The weapons charge thrown into the mix makes me wonder, though...

/unless that was something that happened AFTER he was 12, AFTER the government f*cked him up
 
2013-03-28 03:05:25 PM
This movie is prophetic.
 
2013-03-28 03:05:34 PM

outtatowner: function SOswitchMenu() {var el = document.getElementById('bodyDiv');if ( el.style.display != "none" ) { el.style.display = 'none';}else { el.style.display = '';}var el2 = document.getElementById('h2');if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText";return;}if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText";return;}}function SOframeReload() {var f = document.getElementById('soFrame');f.src = f.src;}
I am ashamed to be from the region.

/so sorry
//no, really, so sorry.


Did the quadratic formula explode? I see a "goog zippy" in there, but it's getting eaten... by some... Linux or something.
 
2013-03-28 03:05:48 PM

xanadian: Car_Ramrod: There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.

This is pretty much what I'm stuck on.  They doomed him from the get-go.  Blame Canada, indeed.


Also...what, exactly, DID the guy do at 12?  Or dare I ask?

/they listed the charges, but not what he actually DID

I heard he was playing monster rain under the porch with Jimmy.
 
2013-03-28 03:06:07 PM
Meanwhile, in Canada... couple lose fourth child to the government for something dad did when he was 12. .. wait now... read the rest of it

So,, , , , vote Conservative?
 
2013-03-28 03:06:37 PM
function SOswitchMenu() {var el = document.getElementById('bodyDiv');if ( el.style.display != "none" ) { el.style.display = 'none';}else { el.style.display = '';}var el2 = document.getElementById('h2');if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText";return;}if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText";return;}}function SOframeReload() {var f = document.getElementById('soFrame');f.src = f.src;}Satanic_Hamster:You'd think he would have noticed a pattern after the 2nd or 3rd kid.

"it's the oddest thing; I have a kid and the government takes it away immediately.  What are the odds of it happening a fourth time?"



Bah, you missed the part where mother is addicted to bingo. He's just trying to help her fill a row an collect the prize.
 
2013-03-28 03:07:14 PM
Klassy couple.
 
2013-03-28 03:07:54 PM

sheep snorter: Meanwhile, in Canada... couple lose fourth child to the government for something dad did when he was 12. .. wait now... read the rest of it

So,, , , , vote Conservative?


We've had the Conservative party in federal power for since 2006. Stevie Sweatervest and his creepy kitten photo-ops.
 
2013-03-28 03:08:14 PM

Lollipop165: I'm kinda torn on this one - they haven't even had the chance to parent.

But that being said I understand why the government would feel its in the best interest of their children. These guys certainly haven' had a good track record.


Only the last three were taken away shortly after birth, so the first one spent some time in their care, you have to assume...
 
2013-03-28 03:08:30 PM

vernonFL: the father drinks too much gin and the mother is addicted to bingo.
 
Are they from Newfoundland?


No, then it would be Beer, and Scratch tickets

also they are in Ontario.
 
2013-03-28 03:09:32 PM
These people are fail. Darwin says let them keep the baby and hope it doesn't survive.
 
2013-03-28 03:10:13 PM

Lollipop165: I'm kinda torn on this one - they haven't even had the chance to parent.

But that being said I understand why the government would feel its in the best interest of their children. These guys certainly haven' had a good track record.


They've had a chance. On pets, which I'm given to understand are easier than children.

Keeping a dog alive might not mean you can be a decent parent, but not being able to keep a dog alive seems like it'd be a good indicator you'll be a bad parent.
 
jvl
2013-03-28 03:10:28 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Sounds like he lost the kids for what he's been doing, beginning at age 12.


The Judge said so. Judge is God; he decides what is right and proper. Judge gives your children away for permanent adoption for your precrimes. You will obey citizen. The Judge knows best, right?
 
2013-03-28 03:10:54 PM

outtatowner: function SOswitchMenu() {var el = document.getElementById('bodyDiv');if ( el.style.display != "none" ) { el.style.display = 'none';}else { el.style.display = '';}var el2 = document.getElementById('h2');if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText";return;}if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText";return;}}function SOframeReload() {var f = document.getElementById('soFrame');f.src = f.src;}Satanic_Hamster:You'd think he would have noticed a pattern after the 2nd or 3rd kid.

"it's the oddest thing; I have a kid and the government takes it away immediately.  What are the odds of it happening a fourth time?"


Bah, you missed the part where mother is addicted to bingo. He's just trying to help her fill a row an collect the prize.


You broke the Internets.
 
2013-03-28 03:11:00 PM

vernonFL: the father drinks too much gin and the mother is addicted to bingo.
 
Are they from Newfoundland?


Sounds more like Sudbury.

/RIP Tom :(
 
2013-03-28 03:11:08 PM

NightOwl2255: I was hoping the headline was a play on words and the story would be about animals. Sadly, it's not.


Well, it kind of is, if you keep reading. In typical tabloid fashion, the most outrageous part of the situation is presented first, then followed up by the "oh, yeah, now it all makes sense" bits.
 
2013-03-28 03:11:25 PM
The house conditions, dead & hoarded animals, no heat, alcohol problems and being on house arrest, and forced to stay separated from the wife for weeks, for a domestic fight - after which she intends to stay with him - would probably have gotten the children taken without that particular offense.  However, even for the sex crime it appears they were considering recent poor assessments, not just the existence of the past record.

With that pile of problems though, it'd just be a game of what happens to the kid first.  Did they not get the message the first three times that they may need to try to fix some of those issues?
 
2013-03-28 03:12:26 PM
Car_Ramrod:
Because of his sex crimes, he was banned from attending high school and instead took correspondence courses, alone at the kitchen table in the group home. He gave up after Grade 9. "You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.


We've had a problem here in California since at least the early nineties with registered sex offenders erroneously being recorded as having committed their crimes against victims under 14 years of age. Those who can afford lawyers can get it fixed. Those who can't, find they can not get any sort of employment, except drug dealing, burglary, etc. This came up in a third-strike hearing I read recently. The appellent wanted his strikes counted as non-strikes as he had no other way to support himself besides crime. (Didn't work for him. He got life.)
 
2013-03-28 03:12:43 PM

SlothB77: i don't know about the pedophilia considering he was just a child himself when he allegedly committed them, but...


You know who I wanted to fark when I was 12?

i45.tinypic.com


This is what I had access to at 12:
i49.tinypic.com

This is what he "experimented" with at 12.
i45.tinypic.com

Do you not see the problem?
 
2013-03-28 03:13:27 PM
Poor bastard never really had a chance, did he? Though I could be wrong, I suspect they keep having kids not so much from a sense of "maybe this time" as from having such poor judgement that they do not use birth control.

Society failed him, and continues to fail him. At the same time, given the sort of living environment he tends to wind up in, can society chance the kids with them? Probably not. However, if he were to take counselling, get cleaned up, find some sort of work where his past wouldn't haunt him, then maybe.

Pure guesswork, but based on the way they are treating this, I think that when he was 12, his victims were MUCH younger than him. That would account for the extreme bias.
 
2013-03-28 03:13:52 PM
Yea, without knowing what he did at age 12 it's kind of  hard to hate him.  Knowing how he hasn't taken the initiative to improve his position, though, makes it kind of hard to sympathize with him.  AKA:  He sounds fat, lazy, and stupid.  Sterilize him and any sad excuse for a woman who would marry him.
 
2013-03-28 03:14:11 PM
This really bothers me, and I've been in a similar situation as the guy in the article... Land is expensive, I can only afford a trailer home, which I rent.  I'd love to live off my own land, grow vegetables and fruit and be self-sufficient.  If the fruit or vegetables don't get enough water, if they die, does anyone care?  I don't have land, but I still have a farm.  My gerbils, the guinea pigs, cats, and bunnies, they sustain me.  I give them food (sometimes), they reproduce, and then I have nutrients to feed the misses and I over the winter.  Some of them don't do so well.  Some die in a corner, under a pile of laundry or errant foot, is it really that different from a row of corn?  I'm doing what I can to get by, trying to have kids that can help me tend to the farm, same as the guy in the article.  How can I ever make it ahead if they keep stripping me and the misses (I call her our "VP") from our employees?
 
2013-03-28 03:14:22 PM

DrPainMD: "The father said it was wrong for a court to punish him for future crimes a judge said he was likely to commit."

Welcome to ObamaHarper's Canada.


FTFY
 
2013-03-28 03:14:39 PM
xanadian:
Well...they probably didn't have the technology 17 years ago, but yeah, I'm wondering if what he did was along those lines.  Or he diddled another 12-year-old while *being* 12 himself.  The weapons charge thrown into the mix makes me wonder, though...

If he had sex with a 12 year old as a 12 year old, it wouldn't have even been statutory rape. In Canada, it's only statutory rape if the two parties are more than 2 years apart in age if one of them is under the age of consent. In order to be charged with a sex crime at that age, it has to non-consensual and/or violent. From what the courts are saying, he has a sexually violent past.

As for "giving him a chance to be a parent", I completely agree with the courts. Why would you subject a baby to the possibility of sexual assault just in case the parent has changed? Especially since the rest of their life is such a train wreck. If they want to prove they can be good providers, let them keep an animal alive for it's lifespan before considering children.
 
2013-03-28 03:14:55 PM
This is the most bizarre story I think I've ever read.
 
2013-03-28 03:14:58 PM

xanadian: Car_Ramrod: There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.

This is pretty much what I'm stuck on.  They doomed him from the get-go.  Blame Canada, indeed.

Also...what, exactly, DID the guy do at 12?  Or dare I ask?

/they listed the charges, but not what he actually DID


Sealed records. It must have been something pretty heinous to be the primary reason though, so I'm imagining raping a preschooler, not pissing on the fence. But I don't know, the prosecution can't say, and he certainly won't tell how bad (or not) it really was.
 
2013-03-28 03:15:35 PM
Hey Vernon Nickerson, that you?
 
2013-03-28 03:16:17 PM
He should either be allowed to keep his kids, or be neutered.
 
2013-03-28 03:16:37 PM
Goddammit... I could have sworn the article said he diddled a baby at 12...

Oh well. A post with a picture of Cindy Crawford is never wasted.
 
2013-03-28 03:17:16 PM

I_Am_Weasel: The judge noted they had not yet sought help for some of their own admitted problems, namely that the father drinks too much gin and the mother is addicted to bingo.

I bet they also don't think much of Inco either.


so much bloody win in this responce
 
2013-03-28 03:18:40 PM
They had their chance. Sad but hey, how many chances do you want?
 
2013-03-28 03:19:38 PM

Altrissa: keep an animal alive for it's lifespan


It's obvious what you mean, but I still feel like I should point out that everything lives out its lifespan, just not its natural lifespan.
 
2013-03-28 03:19:42 PM

Counter_Intelligent: The mother being addicted to bingo was the deal-breaker.


This, I was ready to give them the kids back until I saw that Mom was addicted to Bingo.  Death penalty!!!
 
2013-03-28 03:20:38 PM

Maud Dib: outtatowner: function SOswitchMenu() {var el = document.getElementById('bodyDiv');if ( el.style.display != "none" ) { el.style.display = 'none';}else { el.style.display = '';}var el2 = document.getElementById('h2');if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText";return;}if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText";return;}}function SOframeReload() {var f = document.getElementById('soFrame');f.src = f.src;}Satanic_Hamster:You'd think he would have noticed a pattern after the 2nd or 3rd kid.

"it's the oddest thing; I have a kid and the government takes it away immediately.  What are the odds of it happening a fourth time?"


Bah, you missed the part where mother is addicted to bingo. He's just trying to help her fill a row an collect the prize.

You broke the Internets.


l-userpic.livejournal.com
 
2013-03-28 03:21:10 PM
Canada, eh?  How did these two get so far from Florida?
 
2013-03-28 03:21:45 PM

wxboy: 5th time's a charm.


I know a couple who is going to have their fifth child sometime this year and it will be taken within 30 minutes of birth just like the last one was and the one before that was taken because one of them gave the one month old infant a black eye. I mean after the second or third kid being taken it'd be nice to be able to have these assholes sterilized.
 
2013-03-28 03:21:52 PM

Seat's Taken: This really bothers me, and I've been in a similar situation as the guy in the article... Land is expensive, I can only afford a trailer home, which I rent.  I'd love to live off my own land, grow vegetables and fruit and be self-sufficient.  If the fruit or vegetables don't get enough water, if they die, does anyone care?  I don't have land, but I still have a farm.  My gerbils, the guinea pigs, cats, and bunnies, they sustain me.  I give them food (sometimes), they reproduce, and then I have nutrients to feed the misses and I over the winter.  Some of them don't do so well.  Some die in a corner, under a pile of laundry or errant foot, is it really that different from a row of corn?  I'm doing what I can to get by, trying to have kids that can help me tend to the farm, same as the guy in the article.  How can I ever make it ahead if they keep stripping me and the misses (I call her our "VP") from our employees?


Pure BS, I know, but in this instance, if you have to eat cats, gerbils, and guinea pigs (I'm ok with you eating bunnies), and can't feed or care for them, then you shouldn't be on the internet, much less paying for an internet connection on your farm.  Also, yes.  It is much different from a row of corn in many, many, many ways.  Oh, and corn isn't hard to grow behind your trailer home on your rented land either.
 
2013-03-28 03:22:14 PM
Silly newspaper. Leading with the scandalous and putting the simply sad and pathetic (and relevant) details in later doesn't help with the story
 
2013-03-28 03:23:00 PM
According to the article he had been in trouble for a wide variety of things since he was 12, and the sex was only part of it.

He was under house arrest at the time, drinking heavily anyway, and had a long rap sheet.

Such people should not breed.
 
2013-03-28 03:23:01 PM

jvl: Lionel Mandrake: Sounds like he lost the kids for what he's been doing, beginning at age 12.

The Judge said so. Judge is God; he decides what is right and proper. Judge gives your children away for permanent adoption for your precrimes. You will obey citizen. The Judge knows best, right?


Did... did you read the article? Do you disagree with the judge? Or are you just one of those blanket anti-authoritarians that love using the terms "citizen" and "precrime" like you're in an Orwell book? Dude did not deserve to keep his kid; he obviously can't take care of a child if he and his wife can't take care of themselves.
 
2013-03-28 03:25:55 PM
Subby, that was the worst headline troll ever.  A good troll would have cut it off at the "12", but you had to imply that there was context and mitigating factors.

You're new here, aren't you?  You certainly don't post on the politics tab, anyway.
 
2013-03-28 03:27:44 PM
That article just kept going and going and going. A tent in a trailer park? 30 animals? Feces, urine? Yeah, no, they should probably both be sterilized by the government, and I say that as a libertarian.
 
2013-03-28 03:28:45 PM
Trinity, run down to the store and get me some smoke and  chips.
Extra mordant.
 
2013-03-28 03:28:48 PM

I May Be Crazy But...: Altrissa: keep an animal alive for it's lifespan

It's obvious what you mean, but I still feel like I should point out that everything lives out its lifespan, just not its natural lifespan.


Ha, yeah sorry. I meant to type "expected lifespan".
 
2013-03-28 03:29:12 PM
if the pre-crime unit said guilty it is good enough for me.

but i've been good  for months now--i'm a changed person
 
2013-03-28 03:31:43 PM
I've finally found the perfect case for retroactive birth control.
 
2013-03-28 03:33:25 PM

dabbletech: I've finally found the perfect case for retroactive birth control.


I'm all for aborting the parents.
 
2013-03-28 03:33:25 PM

jvl: Lionel Mandrake: Sounds like he lost the kids for what he's been doing, beginning at age 12.

The Judge said so. Judge is God; he decides what is right and proper. Judge gives your children away for permanent adoption for your precrimes. You will obey citizen. The Judge knows best, right?


I'm not sure what point you were trying to make, but you failed miserably.
 
2013-03-28 03:33:34 PM
shitshirt.co.uk
 
2013-03-28 03:35:02 PM

sjmcc13: vernonFL: the father drinks too much gin and the mother is addicted to bingo.

Are they from Newfoundland?

No, then it would be Beer, and Scratch tickets

also they are in Ontario.


The Ontarioleos are being extra-special careful after they farked up the Dionne brats.
 
2013-03-28 03:35:30 PM

Lionel Mandrake: I'm not sure what point you were trying to make, but you failed miserably.


That the big ol' bad government should let these fine people,never mind the filthy house/no heat/alcohol issue/bingo addiction/them living in a tent at one point,have another kid to neglect and abuse.
 
2013-03-28 03:35:55 PM

Lollipop165: I'm kinda torn on this one - they haven't even had the chance to parent.

But that being said I understand why the government would feel its in the best interest of their children. These guys certainly haven' had a good track record.


I don't think you read the whole article.  Start reading and it's "this is an outrage", by 1/3 through it's "oh I'm torn" then the dead animals start to show up in the story, the jail, the house arrest, the homelessness, the substance abuse.  Yeah no.  Even take away the sex offense and it's a clear case.
 
2013-03-28 03:36:59 PM

outtatowner: function SOswitchMenu() {var el = document.getElementById('bodyDiv');if ( el.style.display != "none" ) { el.style.display = 'none';}else { el.style.display = '';}var el2 = document.getElementById('h2');if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText";return;}if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText";return;}}function SOframeReload() {var f = document.getElementById('soFrame');f.src = f.src;}
I am ashamed to be from the region <div>.

/so sorry
//no, really, so sorry.

 
2013-03-28 03:38:20 PM
If you can't keep mice alive a child doesn't stand a chance, good on the gov for taking that kid away.
 
2013-03-28 03:38:22 PM

Darth_Lukecash: xanadian: Car_Ramrod: There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.

This is pretty much what I'm stuck on.  They doomed him from the get-go.  Blame Canada, indeed.

Also...what, exactly, DID the guy do at 12?  Or dare I ask?

/they listed the charges, but not what he actually DID

They couldn't even keep pets alive. And if the pet died, they didn't even know how to throw them away!

Courts are right. The previous charges were just icing on the cake.


Seems like the age 12 thing is the least of the issue.  Or as this post says:

Lionel Mandrake: Sounds like he lost the kids for what he's been doing, beginning at age 12.

 
2013-03-28 03:38:56 PM

outtatowner: function SOswitchMenu() {var el = document.getElementById('bodyDiv');if ( el.style.display != "none" ) { el.style.display = 'none';}else { el.style.display = '';}var el2 = document.getElementById('h2');if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText";return;}if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText";return;}}function SOframeReload() {var f = document.getElementById('soFrame');f.src = f.src;}Satanic_Hamster:You'd think he would have noticed a pattern after the 2nd or 3rd kid.

"it's the oddest thing; I have a kid and the government takes it away immediately.  What are the odds of it happening a fourth time?"


Bah, you missed the part where mother is addicted to bingo. He's just trying to help her fill a row an collect the prize.


WTF are you doing in your posts?

i58.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-28 03:42:39 PM

A Terrible Human: dabbletech: I've finally found the perfect case for retroactive birth control.

I'm all for aborting the parents.


Precisely.
 
2013-03-28 03:42:53 PM
The sex offense was probably just the official excuse because citing it was easier than trudging through the arguments about exactly how filthy or dead-animal-ridden a house has to be before the kids have to leave, or how many DV convictions are necessary before it can be considered unsafe. I have a feeling that if this guy had a clean, animal-free residence, was employed, and hadn't any issues with the law after the age of 12, this wouldn't be happening. (Mind you, the fact that he wasn't allowed to go to school anywhere after his conviction ... there had to be some better option than "Here's a stack of books, good luck!")
 
2013-03-28 03:46:08 PM
Wow, I can't believe it but after reading the article I gotta call that judge a hero. They sounded in no way prepared or capable of taking care of a baby.
 
2013-03-28 03:46:22 PM

FunkOut: sheep snorter: Meanwhile, in Canada... couple lose fourth child to the government for something dad did when he was 12. .. wait now... read the rest of it

So,, , , , vote Conservative?

We've had the Conservative party in federal power for since 2006. Stevie Sweatervest and his creepy kitten photo-ops.


Kittens? He's moved up to Pandas, now.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/03/24/harper-set-to-greet-pair-of- gi ant-pandas-coming-to-canada/

s7.postimg.org
 
2013-03-28 03:49:57 PM
"It's a heartbreaking experience," the father told the Citizen. "They come in and take your baby. It's like they are stripping your life away."

"You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."


Yes and yes, but then...

They removed gerbils, mice, rats, snakes, dogs (including one that was in such bad health it had to be put down) and cats.
Some of the animals found in the house had been dead for a while.

McMunagle said the father did not complete recent sex behaviour tests because "it appears he did not like the initial results of the testing and has subsequently refused to complete the testing."


...no and no.
 
2013-03-28 03:50:12 PM

Day_Old_Dutchie: FunkOut: sheep snorter: Meanwhile, in Canada... couple lose fourth child to the government for something dad did when he was 12. .. wait now... read the rest of it

So,, , , , vote Conservative?

We've had the Conservative party in federal power for since 2006. Stevie Sweatervest and his creepy kitten photo-ops.

Kittens? He's moved up to Pandas, now.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/03/24/harper-set-to-greet-pair-of- gi ant-pandas-coming-to-canada/

[s7.postimg.org image 620x465]


He could be an animal nerd like Gingrich is but I don't know that much about Canadian politics.
/Also who doesn't want to say hi to pandas? :3
 
2013-03-28 03:51:07 PM
Neither of these two should be raising kids if even half of what the article describes is correct. Sounds to me like the sex offense is just the icing on the cake so to speak.
 
2013-03-28 03:52:21 PM

Lollipop165: I'm kinda torn on this one - they haven't even had the chance to parent.

But that being said I understand why the government would feel its in the best interest of their children. These guys certainly haven' had a good track record.


Did you even read the farking article? There was a lot more to it than "a lack of a good track record"

Also, you don't get a "chance" at parenting after you molest children. No farking way. One and done, just like murder - you don't get a second chance, go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200 labeled and segregated from society as is necessary and possible until your sick, sorry ass dies. Giving people like that a 'second chance' is not what society needs.
 
2013-03-28 03:53:04 PM

Nadie_AZ: This is the most bizarre story I think I've ever read.


You must be new here. Welcome to FARK.
 
2013-03-28 03:53:36 PM
sometimes i feel down about my life, but...jesus, these people are train wrecks made out of human parts.
 
2013-03-28 03:54:53 PM

dv-ous: Goddammit... I could have sworn the article said he diddled a baby at 12...

Oh well. A post with a picture of Cindy Crawford is never wasted.


I immediately had that impression, too. Mostly because they insinuated that the concern was for their newborn baby. But then I read the entire article and went back and now I have no idea why I had that impression to begin with.
 
2013-03-28 03:56:15 PM
After RTFA, could the judge throw in a couple orders of mandatory sterilization also?
 
2013-03-28 03:56:39 PM

98K514: The Ontarioleos are being extra-special careful after they farked up the Dionne brats.


blogs.babble.com
You just grill brats. Or am I missing something?
 
2013-03-28 04:00:22 PM
Having trouble with the whole sympathy thing
 
2013-03-28 04:01:38 PM

megarian: dv-ous: Goddammit... I could have sworn the article said he diddled a baby at 12...

Oh well. A post with a picture of Cindy Crawford is never wasted.

I immediately had that impression, too. Mostly because they insinuated that the concern was for their newborn baby. But then I read the entire article and went back and now I have no idea why I had that impression to begin with.


I got the impression that it was something like that too. Like he was a danger to the babies directly, but the rest of the article made me feel pretty confident that no matter how old his victim was, the children were in for a very unfortunate upbringing if they stayed with him and his common law wife. Plus, the article indicates that the last three kids were taken away at the hospital, so it sounds like the first one might have been taken home by these winners at some point.
 
2013-03-28 04:01:52 PM

ReapTheChaos: Neither of these two should be raising kids if even half of what the article describes is correct. Sounds to me like the sex offense is just the icing on the cake so to speak.


I take it as any excuse to keep them from abusing another kid which from what I read in the article is just fine. The couple I know had me to read them the letter they got from social services as to why they were being investigated,this was before the infant got the black eye,and it said "rotting,moldy food on the counters,food packages,dirty dishes...ect." Basically their house was farking filthy,they both constantly smelled like body odor,she neglected and beat on her disabled mother after the kids were taken and when her mother was taken from the house neither of them were allowed to see her at the hospital because she was under protective custody. I know all that because that poor old woman called my house from the hospital and I talked to a nurse. She had hemorrhaging behind her eyes,I guessing one of them tried to smother her,a broken nose,a black eye and when they EMT's arrived all she was dressed in was a wet dirty shirt. People who treat children or the elderly that way need executed cause there isn't any hope for them not being such pieces of shiat.
 
2013-03-28 04:01:52 PM
Don't see a problem here--except maybe not forcing sterilization on him.  If he's to be never trusted around babies, why is he allowed to make them?
 
2013-03-28 04:03:28 PM

OtherLittleGuy: Because of his sex crimes, he was banned from attending high school and instead took correspondence courses, alone at the kitchen table in the group home. He gave up after Grade 9. "You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

"And in other news, four pre-teens were arrested and charged as adults in possession of child pornograhy for sexting each other....."


If the pictures were of themselves, then you can't charge them as adults. Because if they're adults then there's no child porn, and thus nothing to charge them with. Ta-dah!
 
2013-03-28 04:07:03 PM

Car_Ramrod: I understand all the reasons why they're taking his kids away, and he should probably stop having them until he gets his life back together. However, I will say this:

Because of his sex crimes, he was banned from attending high school and instead took correspondence courses, alone at the kitchen table in the group home. He gave up after Grade 9. "You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.


Yeah, I'm actually kinda curious what he did to deserve being ostracized so thoroughly.  Basically, I wonder if I agree or not.

For my money though, if the guy did something so horrible, why is he alive at all?  And if it wasn't bad enough to die for, why is it such a big deal that he can't even be around peers? Yes, you asshole, that is exactly how parenting works.

Also...  "Essentially, this court is being asked to take a chance and allow (the couple) to use (the girl) as a parental training tool," the judge ruled. "
Yes, you asshole, that is exactly how parenting works.
 
2013-03-28 04:07:46 PM
This is why there should be a basic test to become a parent and if you don`t pass you stay sterile...

You could have questions like

Your baby is crying do you,

A, Check its nappy
B, See if it wants a bottle
C, Drink some gin
D, Go out and play bingo
E, Hit it
F, Try to have sex with it

Please circle two answers


That sort of stuff. Combined with at least the sort of checks you would do on any person who was going to be in close proximity alone with a child for an extended period of time.
 
2013-03-28 04:10:18 PM

dv-ous: SlothB77: i don't know about the pedophilia considering he was just a child himself when he allegedly committed them, but...

You know who I wanted to fark when I was 12?




This is what I had access to at 12:


This is what he "experimented" with at 12.


Do you not see the problem?


What I don't see is anything in the article that mentions the age of whoever he had serial encounters with.
 
2013-03-28 04:12:41 PM
Don't see a problem. Convicted child molester, recently reassessed and confirmed at risk for re-offense. Married to person with addiction issues. Living in squalor that would present a risk to any child, let alone a baby.
 
2013-03-28 04:12:49 PM

Kahabut: For my money though, if the guy did something so horrible, why is he alive at all?  And if it wasn't bad enough to die for, why is it such a big deal that he can't even be around peers?


Allot of countries do NOT have/use Capital Punishment.... also the Young Offenders Act
 
2013-03-28 04:13:43 PM
Lollipop165:

I'm kinda torn on this one - they haven't even had the chance to parent.

They had the chance to keep pets. You did read that bit about their pets, right?

It's too bad the judge can't order them both to be sterilized. That would save everybody a lot of ongoing trouble.

What happens to their kids?
 
2013-03-28 04:13:58 PM
He's now an unemployed labourer currently living under house arrest at a roadside motel.

There are two oxymorons in that sentence.
 
2013-03-28 04:14:17 PM

Kahabut: Also...  "Essentially, this court is being asked to take a chance and allow (the couple) to use (the girl) as a parental training tool," the judge ruled. "
Yes, you asshole, that is exactly how parenting works.


That's pretty much what I was thinking too.

The Only Sane Man In Florida: Lollipop165: I'm kinda torn on this one - they haven't even had the chance to parent.

But that being said I understand why the government would feel its in the best interest of their children. These guys certainly haven' had a good track record.

Did you even read the farking article? There was a lot more to it than "a lack of a good track record"

Also, you don't get a "chance" at parenting after you molest children. No farking way. One and done, just like murder - you don't get a second chance, go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200 labeled and segregated from society as is necessary and possible until your sick, sorry ass dies. Giving people like that a 'second chance' is not what society needs.


He was 12. He served his jail time. And besides that, yes if you have gone to jail for something like that at least in the USA you can go on to have a family. At least to my knowledge you can.

That being said, I do understand the court's reasoning as there were a lot of issues since he was 12 and obviously he wouldn't be a good parent. But I have a hard time with punishment for a "future" crime. Either sterilize the guy or let him have a family. If you let him have a family, keep a good eye on him and the minute something gets farked up, take the kid away and put the parents in jail.

dready zim: This is why there should be a basic test to become a parent and if you don`t pass you stay sterile...

You could have questions like

Your baby is crying do you,

A, Check its nappy
B, See if it wants a bottle
C, Drink some gin
D, Go out and play bingo
E, Hit it
F, Try to have sex with it

Please circle two answers

That sort of stuff. Combined with at least the sort of checks you would do on any person who was going to be in close proximity alone with a child for an extended period of time.


The answer is F.

NONONONO I meant D. Of course! D.
 
2013-03-28 04:14:29 PM

fickenchucker: Don't see a problem here--except maybe not forcing sterilization on him.  If he's to be never trusted around babies, why is he allowed to make them?


A big touchy gropey punchy pile of THIS. All he has to do is not have the baby at the hospital or have his `wife` go to any pre natal checkups (and I can imagine these people doing that if they were smart enough to think of it) and BINGO.

/Is gropey a real word? Not sure but I`ve heard it used plenty of times `they are a bit gropey`
 
2013-03-28 04:15:46 PM

vernonFL: the father drinks too much gin and the mother is addicted to bingo.
 
Are they from Newfoundland?


Newfoundland, Canada's West Virginia
 
2013-03-28 04:17:52 PM
FTA "He came home with a bottle of London Dry Gin, and "we got to drinking."

then they got to fighting, and then he got arrested. Still, they are together, though they are so far restricted to communicating only by telephone or Internet."


Sounds like a normal marriage
 
2013-03-28 04:18:11 PM

Lollipop165: I'm kinda torn on this one - they haven't even had the chance to parent.

But that being said I understand why the government would feel its in the best interest of their children. These guys certainly haven' had a good track record.


They can't even care for themselves or their animals, they don't deserve to get to test drive a kid.
 
2013-03-28 04:18:21 PM

xanadian: Car_Ramrod: There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.

This is pretty much what I'm stuck on.  They doomed him from the get-go.  Blame Canada, indeed.

Also...what, exactly, DID the guy do at 12?  Or dare I ask?

/they listed the charges, but not what he actually DID


"But his record shows otherwise, with him having been convicted of sexual assault, invitation to sexual touching, assault with a weapon, sexual interference and uttering threats."

Obviously this is speculation and IANAL, but I'm going to look at this from the perspective of the time it happened, not modern interpretations (we've all seen the threads here where patting someone on the butt is sexual assault, but that's a relatively new thing).

Sexual assault = probably at least groped someone, if not holding them down or something like that. Invitation, I've never heard that one, but maybe luring another kid into the situation? Assault with a weapon - pretty explanatory, and 17 years ago probably at least something like a large stick or bat. Uttering threats - probably pretty crazy stuff to have it included in a 12 YO's record. Basically I get a major Eric Smith vibe off this guy... and coincidentally that happened just a couple of years before this guy's record started. *shudder*
 
2013-03-28 04:18:27 PM

foxyshadis: xanadian: Car_Ramrod: There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.

This is pretty much what I'm stuck on.  They doomed him from the get-go.  Blame Canada, indeed.

Also...what, exactly, DID the guy do at 12?  Or dare I ask?

/they listed the charges, but not what he actually DID

Sealed records. It must have been something pretty heinous to be the primary reason though, so I'm imagining raping a preschooler, not pissing on the fence. But I don't know, the prosecution can't say, and he certainly won't tell how bad (or not) it really was.


My guess is raping an infant.  That's why the judge won't let him have a baby in the house.  Assault + invite + interferences could be from one incident.  If he grabbed any object, that could be assault with a weapon.

So, let's pull a guess out of thin air.  Babysitting, rapes the infant / toddler and commits the assault, invite, and interference.  Parents figure it out / bust in the act, he grabs a widget and says, "I'll kill you if you call the police."
 
2013-03-28 04:19:16 PM

dready zim: This is why there should be a basic test to become a parent and if you don`t pass you stay sterile...

You could have questions like

Your baby is crying do you,

A, Check its nappy
B, See if it wants a bottle
C, Drink some gin
D, Go out and play bingo
E, Hit it
F, Try to have sex with it

Please circle two answers

That sort of stuff. Combined with at least the sort of checks you would do on any person who was going to be in close proximity alone with a child for an extended period of time.


I don't think A and B exclude C, this test is rigged
 
2013-03-28 04:19:41 PM
I May Be Crazy But...:

Keeping a dog alive might not mean you can be a decent parent, but not being able to keep a dog alive seems like it'd be a good indicator you'll be a bad parent.

Very much this. And "alive" still ain't enough.
 
2013-03-28 04:20:54 PM

Lollipop165: Kahabut: Also...  "Essentially, this court is being asked to take a chance and allow (the couple) to use (the girl) as a parental training tool," the judge ruled. "
Yes, you asshole, that is exactly how parenting works.

That's pretty much what I was thinking too.

The Only Sane Man In Florida: Lollipop165: I'm kinda torn on this one - they haven't even had the chance to parent.

But that being said I understand why the government would feel its in the best interest of their children. These guys certainly haven' had a good track record.

Did you even read the farking article? There was a lot more to it than "a lack of a good track record"

Also, you don't get a "chance" at parenting after you molest children. No farking way. One and done, just like murder - you don't get a second chance, go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200 labeled and segregated from society as is necessary and possible until your sick, sorry ass dies. Giving people like that a 'second chance' is not what society needs.

He was 12. He served his jail time. And besides that, yes if you have gone to jail for something like that at least in the USA you can go on to have a family. At least to my knowledge you can.

That being said, I do understand the court's reasoning as there were a lot of issues since he was 12 and obviously he wouldn't be a good parent. But I have a hard time with punishment for a "future" crime. Either sterilize the guy or let him have a family. If you let him have a family, keep a good eye on him and the minute something gets farked up, take the kid away and put the parents in jail.
dready zim: This is why there should be a basic test to become a parent and if you don`t pass you stay sterile...

You could have questions like

Your baby is crying do you,

A, Check its nappy
B, See if it wants a bottle
C, Drink some gin
D, Go out and play bingo
E, Hit it
F, Try to have sex with it

Please circle two answers

That sort of stuff. Combined with at least the sort of checks y ...


But the part where the article said that the LAST THREE of the four children were taken away at the hospital means that the first one was not, right? And they lost that one after having some time to try out their parenting abilities.

IDK how it works in Canada, but my mom's good friend was immediately given custody of her grandson after her daughter was thought to have shaken her oldest child, her ex-husband was immediately awarded custody of their second child because of what she did to their first child. If she had more children, TX would have taken them away immediately too, even though she didn't actually get charged with a crime (the physical damage was likely, but not conclusively, due to shaking, but it was enough that they couldn't take the risk with more children.)
 
2013-03-28 04:20:59 PM
Nothing good every follows the phrase "and we got to drinking...."
fun, yes, but not good
 
2013-03-28 04:23:12 PM

Kahabut: Car_Ramrod: I understand all the reasons why they're taking his kids away, and he should probably stop having them until he gets his life back together. However, I will say this:

Because of his sex crimes, he was banned from attending high school and instead took correspondence courses, alone at the kitchen table in the group home. He gave up after Grade 9. "You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.

Yeah, I'm actually kinda curious what he did to deserve being ostracized so thoroughly.  Basically, I wonder if I agree or not.

For my money though, if the guy did something so horrible, why is he alive at all?  And if it wasn't bad enough to die for, why is it such a big deal that he can't even be around peers? Yes, you asshole, that is exactly how parenting works.

Also...  "Essentially, this court is being asked to take a chance and allow (the couple) to use (the girl) as a parental training tool," the judge ruled. "
Yes, you asshole, that is exactly how parenting works.


The difference in this case is that the parents are using the child to learn things like `do you hit your baby for crying` instead of `what temperature EXACTLY is the right one for a bottle`

Also, is that the case? Two levels of punishment?

1, ok to have children to experiment on and to be allowed to be around peers in the immediate aftermath of the offense
2, dead

3/10 too extreme. You need to build up to the extreme slowly and get some bites first. Try not to say "Yes, you asshole, that is exactly how parenting works. " too often and only do so in the right context.
 
2013-03-28 04:23:24 PM
ErinPac:

Did they not get the message the first three times that they may need to try to fix some of those issues?

They heard, they just didn't farking listen. Because they're too stupid to know how to.
 
2013-03-28 04:23:56 PM
I feel so bad for those animals.

Also the pets
 
2013-03-28 04:24:45 PM

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: But the part where the article said that the LAST THREE of the four children were taken away at the hospital means that the first one was not, right? And they lost that one after having some time to try out their parenting abilities.

IDK how it works in Canada, but my mom's good friend was immediately given custody of her grandson after her daughter was thought to have shaken her oldest child, her ex-husband was immediately awarded custody of their second child because of what she did to their first child. If she had more children, TX would have taken them away immediately too, even though she didn't actually get charged with a crime (the physical damage was likely, but not conclusively, due to shaking, but it was enough that they couldn't take the risk with more children.)


You are right, I thought there were 3 kids taken directly after birth but there were 4.

That being said, in your story, how can TX do that if she was never charged with any crime? I'd get a lawyer on that stat.
 
2013-03-28 04:25:11 PM

dready zim: This is why there should be a basic test to become a parent and if you don`t pass you stay sterile...
You could have questions like
Your baby is crying do you,

A, Check its nappy
B, See if it wants a bottle
C, Drink some gin
D, Go out and play bingo
E, Hit it
F, Try to have sex with it

Please circle two answers


You're a funny guy...you amooze me.
 
2013-03-28 04:25:41 PM

sodomizer: These people are fail. Darwin says let them keep the baby and hope it doesn't survive.


Of course! Because nothing says the pinnacle of humanity like sacrificing an innocent child for the crimes of their parents!
 
2013-03-28 04:26:22 PM
See, this is the problem with these sex offender stories...

1. The judge's ruling also referenced a recent sexual behaviour assessment that concluded the father's likelihood of re-offending in a "violent manner is deemed to be in the high-risk range."

Well, that sounds pretty bad.

2. McMunagle said the father did not complete recent sex behaviour tests because "it appears he did not like the initial results of the testing and has subsequently refused to complete the testing."

Wait, the previous statement was based on an incomplete assessment? He needs to complete the assessment, but exactly how are they able to come up with a definitive answer if he doesn't in fact, complete it?

3. He pleaded guilty for sex crimes against children when he was 12. "I was a kid. I didn't know what I was doing, so I pleaded guilty. But there was no sex, it was experimenting as a 12-year-old boy."

Once again, pretty bad. Context would be nice though. Was it another 12-year old, was it a 15-year old? Who was it?

4. But his record shows otherwise, with him having been convicted of sexual assault, invitation to sexual touching, assault with a weapon, sexual interference and uttering threats.

No, all his record shows is that they tagged him with everything they could. Once again, context...

This is like the sex offender registry, when you freak out because your neighbor is on there, and then you find out that he got busted pissing in an alley after leaving the bar one night. This story is short on details, but LONG on condemnation.
 
2013-03-28 04:26:39 PM
"He's now an unemployed labourer currently living under house arrest at a roadside motel."

After all the other atrocities in his history, all I needed to read was this to understand why they took his child away. There's nothing wrong with being temporarily unemployed but i doubt that's the case here. He insists he hasn't done anything wrong since his youth-diddling youth. Why is he currently under house arrest while lacking the house?
 
2013-03-28 04:30:07 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: "You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

This is not something you want to admit while trying to paint yourself as a victim to the media.


What? The fact that at a very important time in your life, both socially and developmentally, the State put you in the school version of solitary confinement? I don't know what he did with who, because the story actually sucks, but this is a truly bullshiat move, and yes, it makes him the victim in that part of it.
 
2013-03-28 04:31:39 PM

Satanic_Hamster: You'd think he would have noticed a pattern after the 2nd or 3rd kid.

"it's the oddest thing; I have a kid and the government takes it away immediately.  What are the odds of it happening a fourth time?"


You honestly expect these people to think like that? Seriously? They can barely think far enough ahead to lift the toilet seat before they start going.
 
2013-03-28 04:31:53 PM

Lollipop165: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: But the part where the article said that the LAST THREE of the four children were taken away at the hospital means that the first one was not, right? And they lost that one after having some time to try out their parenting abilities.

IDK how it works in Canada, but my mom's good friend was immediately given custody of her grandson after her daughter was thought to have shaken her oldest child, her ex-husband was immediately awarded custody of their second child because of what she did to their first child. If she had more children, TX would have taken them away immediately too, even though she didn't actually get charged with a crime (the physical damage was likely, but not conclusively, due to shaking, but it was enough that they couldn't take the risk with more children.)

You are right, I thought there were 3 kids taken directly after birth but there were 4.

That being said, in your story, how can TX do that if she was never charged with any crime? I'd get a lawyer on that stat.


Unemployed, unwilling to be medicated bipolar? She's not getting a lawyer anytime soon. I want to say there is some history of drug abuse, but I am not sure what or if I am just confusing untreated mental illness with meth crazy. I think CPS brought out the How Bout No Bear for her parenting or being left with children because her new boyfriend's ex-wife got custody of their kids after she found out he was working a night job and leaving Crazypants with his kids. All I know is that if you can convince Gayle that she should take the side of her former son-in-law, you might have witnessed a miracle/sign of the apocalypse, because that woman has more hate in her heart for that man than even her own ex-husbands (yes, plural, she provided an obviously stable home for her daughter while she was growing up!) But she's fully supportive of him having 100% custody of the two oldest and helped him have her parental rights terminated (I think it helped her adopt the youngest that is not a product of the marriage, too.)
 
2013-03-28 04:32:52 PM

alberta_beef: Pure guesswork, but based on the way they are treating this, I think that when he was 12, his victims were MUCH younger than him. That would account for the extreme bias.


I see nothing to indicate that they are making any kind of distinction at all on the age of whomever he played doctor with. This seems to be a very biased news article.
 
2013-03-28 04:35:02 PM

Mikey1969: This story is short on details, but LONG on condemnation.


I read it and thought it was somewhat SHORT on condemnation. It ought to have started

"A couple who has repeatedly proven incapable of cleaning a house, staying sober, or keeping a dog alive has had their 4th child taken by a judge."

Okay, that makes it sound more like a local judge has become a kidnapper, but still.
 
2013-03-28 04:37:44 PM
To quote the article: "He came home with a bottle of London Dry Gin."

i.telegraph.co.uk
 
jvl
2013-03-28 04:41:24 PM

Lionel Mandrake: jvl: Lionel Mandrake: Sounds like he lost the kids for what he's been doing, beginning at age 12.

The Judge said so. Judge is God; he decides what is right and proper. Judge gives your children away for permanent adoption for your precrimes. You will obey citizen. The Judge knows best, right?

I'm not sure what point you were trying to make, but you failed miserably.


If only there were some kind of reference, a link if you will, in my comment to a case where Canadian Judges routinely took children away to make sure they had better lives.
 
2013-03-28 04:41:39 PM

rkiller1: dready zim: This is why there should be a basic test to become a parent and if you don`t pass you stay sterile...
You could have questions like
Your baby is crying do you,

A, Check its nappy
B, See if it wants a bottle
C, Drink some gin
D, Go out and play bingo
E, Hit it
F, Try to have sex with it

Please circle two answers

You're a funny guy...you amooze me.


I try. It`s best when people take me totally cereal...
 
2013-03-28 04:43:02 PM
Mikey1969:

He pleaded guilty for sex crimes against children when he was 12. "I was a kid. I didn't know what I was doing, so I pleaded guilty. But there was no sex, it was experimenting as a 12-year-old boy."

Once again, pretty bad. Context would be nice though. Was it another 12-year old, was it a 15-year old? Who was it?


I don't know where to begin to look for that information given Canadian censorship.

The article does say "But his record shows otherwise, with him having been convicted of sexual assault, invitation to sexual touching, assault with a weapon, sexual interference and uttering threats." That he used a weapon might indicate that the victim wasn't already helpless before him, i.e. not a VERY young child or a cripple.
 
2013-03-28 04:45:52 PM

vernonFL: the father drinks too much gin and the mother is addicted to bingo.
 
Are they from Newfoundland?


If they were, the father and mother would be brother and sister.
 
2013-03-28 04:46:04 PM
So the penalty of sexual experimentation at age 12 includes blocking from public schools, public humiliation that prevents him from getting a job, and having no children of his own.  Ever.   Now, he's 29 (17 years later).   I don't think that at that 29, I felt the same way about anything I felt when I was 12 years old, especially with regards to sexuality.

The charges included: "... sexual assault, invitation to sexual touching, assault with a weapon, sexual interference and uttering threats."


Those offenses are describing a single scenario where a 12 year old asked (or directed), someone under 16 to touch him, and actually touched THEM in some way determined to be sexual.  The sheer fact that this occurred, would land the "sexual assault" charge.
Then later it's possible he told the victim to not tell on them, in a threatening manner, apparently with some sort of weapon at hand. 

I say "later" because the charge wasn't "sexual assault with a weapon", which under Canadian law means that it was a separate event somehow.    For the record, it also wasn't "causing bodily harm" so I guess he didn't actually use the weapon in question, or it was a pretty lame weapon to begin with. 

Granted, the guy has other issues in his life, primarily stemming from this assault, it would seem.  However, when you now take this story, and apply it to a scenario where some kid maliciously lies about an attack of this nature.. you can see that there's something(s) wrong with the system.

I agree that he doesn't seem like the ideal parent in the making, but if he had agreed to take those tests, and scored reasonably higher than a sociopath or something, I'd like to think that at least his ability to have children of his own would be restored, but this doesn't seem to be the case... or am I missing something?
 
2013-03-28 04:47:21 PM

vernonFL: Are they from Newfoundland?


Sudbury I bet.
 
2013-03-28 04:50:08 PM

flyinglizard: vernonFL: the father drinks too much gin and the mother is addicted to bingo.
 
Are they from Newfoundland?

If they were, the father and mother would be brother and sister.


Newfoundlanders are not Hillbillies.
 
2013-03-28 04:50:10 PM

Dead-Guy: I agree that he doesn't seem like the ideal parent in the making, but if he had agreed to take those tests, and scored reasonably higher than a sociopath or something, I'd like to think that at least his ability to have children of his own would be restored, but this doesn't seem to be the case... or am I missing something?


I do believe you're missing the part where they lived in a filthy house with dead animals and couldn't even take care of a dog or cat.
 
2013-03-28 04:50:27 PM
Mikey1969: ...

No, all his record shows is that they tagged him with everything they could. Once again, context...

This is like the sex offender registry, when you freak out because your neighbor is on there, and then you find out that he got busted pissing in an alley after leaving the bar one night. This story is short on details, but LONG on condemnation.


Are you mental?  There is a lot more information there to support them not having kids even if you remove the conviction.  Hell, the fact that they keep having kids knowing they will be taken away shows what state of mind they are in.

I can't believe people here are wondering "what happened" with that list of charges inferring it may have been some sort of petty kid on kid thing.

I'm no fan of the nanny state either but from the sounds of it this guy would be abusing and neglecting the kid before he got home from the hospital.
 
2013-03-28 04:51:11 PM

I May Be Crazy But...: Mikey1969: This story is short on details, but LONG on condemnation.

I read it and thought it was somewhat SHORT on condemnation. It ought to have started

"A couple who has repeatedly proven incapable of cleaning a house, staying sober, or keeping a dog alive has had their 4th child taken by a judge."

Okay, that makes it sound more like a local judge has become a kidnapper, but still.


The point is that it has no details on what he did at 12, why he's charged with those particular crimes or anything, it just makes sure to point out over and over that he's a "bad guy", but we don't really know, do we? Irresponsible? Yep. Bad parent? Sounds like it, but they're making him sound like a 12 year old Ted Bundy.

For perspective on those crimes of his, keep in mind that in the US, if you tell people to move across the room in a standoff situation, it becomes kidnapping.

Hell, for all we know, he played Dr with a buddy, was afraid of catching 'Gay' from it and told the other kid he'd kick his ass if he said anything. We don't know because they list a bunch of negative shiat and leave it to the readers to judge him. I don't know what his story is, but TFA is a straight up hit piece.
 
jvl
2013-03-28 04:51:22 PM

Car_Ramrod: Did... did you read the article? Do you disagree with the judge? Or are you just one of those blanket anti-authoritarians that love using the terms "citizen" and "precrime" like you're in an Orwell book? Dude did not deserve to keep his kid; he obviously can't take care of a child if he and his wife can't take care of themselves.


Let me put this in terms even a maroon could understand...

The right to have children and keep them is a Basic Human Right. It's even more fundamental than Free Speech. You do not fark with rights like these without one hell of a lot of reason to do so.

Something he did at 12 so we take away his children? Fark you. Doesn't take care of his pets so we take away his children? Fark you harder. He is a drunk? Don't make me fark you again!  Which part of "Basic Human Right" was not understood?  Now, if the Judge is basing his decisions on something not mentioned in the article like what happened with the first baby, then I'm okay with this.

But you do not execute a person for not taking care of his pets. You do not remove the right of Free Speech and Free Association for not taking care of pets. You do not remove the Right to Reproduce for not taking care of pets.

Rights. Sometimes the word Right is abused with all the "it's my Right to do xxx" which is heard over often in society. This is not one of those cases. This is one of the Fundamental Rights.
 
2013-03-28 04:55:16 PM

foxyshadis: In typical tabloid fashion, the most outrageous part of the situation is presented first, then followed up by the "oh, yeah, now it all makes sense" bits...


...which then leads into the whole "should some people be chemically castrated?" portion of the article
 
2013-03-28 04:56:10 PM

Mikey1969: alberta_beef:

Pure guesswork, but based on the way they are treating this, I think that when he was 12, his victims were MUCH younger than him. That would account for the extreme bias.

I see nothing to indicate that they are making any kind of distinction at all on the age of whomever he played doctor with.


Yes. It doesn't even say how old the victim is.


This seems to be a very biased news article.

Well, yeah, but it's somewhat justifiable here. With facts like those how could you put them objectively in a way that would leave room for us to feel that these parents are indeed the victims here?

It would be nice to find a report in another Canadian paper, but searching Google News for a few different key phrases hasn't led to anything.
 
2013-03-28 04:56:52 PM
"I'm still paying for it every day. I can't walk down the street without someone calling me a goof or a pedophile,"

Goof? Does that word mean something different in Canadian?
 
2013-03-28 04:57:29 PM

Dead-Guy: So the penalty of sexual experimentation at age 12 includes blocking from public schools, public humiliation that prevents him from getting a job, and having no children of his own.  Ever.   Now, he's 29 (17 years later).   I don't think that at that 29, I felt the same way about anything I felt when I was 12 years old, especially with regards to sexuality.

The charges included: "... sexual assault, invitation to sexual touching, assault with a weapon, sexual interference and uttering threats."


Those offenses are describing a single scenario where a 12 year old asked (or directed), someone under 16 to touch him, and actually touched THEM in some way determined to be sexual.  The sheer fact that this occurred, would land the "sexual assault" charge.
Then later it's possible he told the victim to not tell on them, in a threatening manner, apparently with some sort of weapon at hand. 

I say "later" because the charge wasn't "sexual assault with a weapon", which under Canadian law means that it was a separate event somehow.    For the record, it also wasn't "causing bodily harm" so I guess he didn't actually use the weapon in question, or it was a pretty lame weapon to begin with. 

Granted, the guy has other issues in his life, primarily stemming from this assault, it would seem.  However, when you now take this story, and apply it to a scenario where some kid maliciously lies about an attack of this nature.. you can see that there's something(s) wrong with the system.

I agree that he doesn't seem like the ideal parent in the making, but if he had agreed to take those tests, and scored reasonably higher than a sociopath or something, I'd like to think that at least his ability to have children of his own would be restored, but this doesn't seem to be the case... or am I missing something?


........OR

He raped/assaulted a child, the judge knows it and is acting in the best interest of the children.

Hate to break it to you but there are some really terrible people out there and around 12 is usually when they start exhibiting those behaviors.
 
2013-03-28 05:00:52 PM

jvl: Car_Ramrod: Did... did you read the article? Do you disagree with the judge? Or are you just one of those blanket anti-authoritarians that love using the terms "citizen" and "precrime" like you're in an Orwell book? Dude did not deserve to keep his kid; he obviously can't take care of a child if he and his wife can't take care of themselves.

Let me put this in terms even a maroon could understand...

The right to have children and keep them is a Basic Human Right. It's even more fundamental than Free Speech. You do not fark with rights like these without one hell of a lot of reason to do so.

Something he did at 12 so we take away his children? Fark you. Doesn't take care of his pets so we take away his children? Fark you harder. He is a drunk? Don't make me fark you again!  Which part of "Basic Human Right" was not understood?  Now, if the Judge is basing his decisions on something not mentioned in the article like what happened with the first baby, then I'm okay with this.

But you do not execute a person for not taking care of his pets. You do not remove the right of Free Speech and Free Association for not taking care of pets. You do not remove the Right to Reproduce for not taking care of pets.

Rights. Sometimes the word Right is abused with all the "it's my Right to do xxx" which is heard over often in society. This is not one of those cases. This is one of the Fundamental Rights.


Maybe you should allow him to babysit your children to prove he is capable of exercising his "Basic Human Rights".
 
2013-03-28 05:00:59 PM

fusillade762: "I'm still paying for it every day. I can't walk down the street without someone calling me a goof or a pedophile,"

Goof? Does that word mean something different in Canadian?


Goof drinks too much, lets his house smell like feces, and keeps dead animals around. Goof loses his kids.
Gallant keeps a clean, heated home, and doesn't beat his wife. Gallant gets to keep his kids.

img836.imageshack.us
 
2013-03-28 05:02:17 PM

IRQ12: I can't believe people here are wondering "what happened" with that list of charges inferring it may have been some sort of petty kid on kid thing.


It could have easily been when you have teens getting put on sex offender registries for sending naked pics of themselves to each other. Look, sex crimes always sound bad, and whatever the situation that led to it being chargeable, whether the kid was a lot younger, or if even a day younger mattered in this(Being that they charge the older of the two, who knows here?), my point is that it COULD have been "some petty kid on kid thing", and they threw the book at him for whatever reason. Overzealous prosecutor, mandatory charges, mandatory minimum sentencing, who knows?

I'm not defending the guy, just trying to point out that the article sucks. There is a chance(as I mentioned in another post) that he just played doctor with a buddy, and then threatened him if he told anybody. Just going off the straight charges is never good, especially in this new era of registering everyone as a sex offender.
 
2013-03-28 05:02:58 PM

jvl: Car_Ramrod: Did... did you read the article? Do you disagree with the judge? Or are you just one of those blanket anti-authoritarians that love using the terms "citizen" and "precrime" like you're in an Orwell book? Dude did not deserve to keep his kid; he obviously can't take care of a child if he and his wife can't take care of themselves.

Let me put this in terms even a maroon could understand...

The right to have children and keep them is a Basic Human Right. It's even more fundamental than Free Speech. You do not fark with rights like these without one hell of a lot of reason to do so.

Something he did at 12 so we take away his children? Fark you. Doesn't take care of his pets so we take away his children? Fark you harder. He is a drunk? Don't make me fark you again!  Which part of "Basic Human Right" was not understood?  Now, if the Judge is basing his decisions on something not mentioned in the article like what happened with the first baby, then I'm okay with this.

But you do not execute a person for not taking care of his pets. You do not remove the right of Free Speech and Free Association for not taking care of pets. You do not remove the Right to Reproduce for not taking care of pets.

Rights. Sometimes the word Right is abused with all the "it's my Right to do xxx" which is heard over often in society. This is not one of those cases. This is one of the Fundamental Rights.


What about the right of the child to grow up in a clean, safe, heated home, where it doesn't reek of feces and dead animals?
 
2013-03-28 05:03:32 PM

The One True TheDavid: The article does say "But his record shows otherwise, with him having been convicted of sexual assault, invitation to sexual touching, assault with a weapon, sexual interference and uttering threats." That he used a weapon might indicate that the victim wasn't already helpless before him, i.e. not a VERY young child or a cripple.


That's all I'm looking for, actual context. He may be a little serial rapist, but they don't really give you much to go on.
 
2013-03-28 05:04:11 PM
Mikey1969: ....
Hell, for all we know, he played Dr with a buddy, was afraid of catching 'Gay' from it and told the other kid he'd kick his ass if he said anything. We don't know because they list a bunch of negative shiat and leave it to the readers to judge him. I don't know what his story is, but TFA is a straight up hit piece.

Good point, they should have some sort of authority that is privy to the details oversee their situation and make sure they are living in a manner that is not neglectful or abusive.

Don't you wonder why the first kid was taken away?  I'd bet you a cookie that it was because of abuse and neglect.
 
2013-03-28 05:04:49 PM
Okay, usually, I think forced sterilization is a terrible thing, but damn, maybe this is a case where it would be the way to go.  Or if you don't like that, how about voluntary sterilization with an incentive.  Give the guy $2k and an ice bag to get those tubes tied.  Offer the lady $10k and a bingo ticket.
 
2013-03-28 05:05:11 PM

Dead-Guy: Those offenses are describing a single scenario where a 12 year old asked (or directed), someone under 16 to touch him, and actually touched THEM in some way determined to be sexual. The sheer fact that this occurred, would land the "sexual assault" charge.
Then later it's possible he told the victim to not tell on them, in a threatening manner, apparently with some sort of weapon at hand.

I say "later" because the charge wasn't "sexual assault with a weapon", which under Canadian law means that it was a separate event somehow. For the record, it also wasn't "causing bodily harm" so I guess he didn't actually use the weapon in question, or it was a pretty lame weapon to begin with.


I realized after I posted that the guy could be First Nations.  It's also in Ontario, so let's just assume we're talking about the OPP.  That would explain just about everything.

So we've got a case of a dirty redskin playing doctor with someone loosely related to some OPP dickhead in 1996.  He's lucky he didn't get Milgarded... waaait a second.  This wouldn't be the same OPP that was stinging from Guy Paul Morin's DNA overturn just a few months previously, would it?

I'm not saying the guy's a model citizen, but to have all your education end when you're 12...  I barely knew how to wash my balls at that age.
 
2013-03-28 05:06:56 PM
Mikey1969:

I'm not defending the guy, just trying to point out that the article sucks. There is a chance(as I mentioned in another post) that he just played doctor with a buddy, and then threatened him if he told anybody. Just going off the straight charges is never good, especially in this new era of registering everyone as a sex offender.

The guy was a raving psycho.  He butchered 400 chickens and screwed a beagle.  I hope they takie him back to Nevada where he's wanted for banging horses.
 
2013-03-28 05:07:35 PM

sjmcc13: flyinglizard: vernonFL: the father drinks too much gin and the mother is addicted to bingo.
 
Are they from Newfoundland?

If they were, the father and mother would be brother and sister.

Newfoundlanders are not Hillbillies.


Rural New Brunswick has them beat.
 
2013-03-28 05:09:23 PM

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: But the part where the article said that the LAST THREE of the four children were taken away at the hospital means that the first one was not, right? And they lost that one after having some time to try out their parenting abilities.


Or they weren't on the radar yet. It could be that nobody knew he wasn't supposed to have kids, and realized it when the child was older, and started watching the couple closely after that.

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: IDK how it works in Canada, but my mom's good friend was immediately given custody of her grandson after her daughter was thought to have shaken her oldest child, her ex-husband was immediately awarded custody of their second child because of what she did to their first child. If she had more children, TX would have taken them away immediately too, even though she didn't actually get charged with a crime (the physical damage was likely, but not conclusively, due to shaking, but it was enough that they couldn't take the risk with more children.)


Sorry, this pisses me off, too. We have due process for a reason. This is part of the reason that I'm terrified any time my 4 year old daughter gets injured. What if I'm "thought" to have done something?

/Yet I got stuck with emotionally and physically abusive adoptive parents for 8 years, and it took my statements to a Group Home house parent years later before the state acted to do anything. Apparently being locked in your room and made to piss in a coffee can is frowned on after the fact.
 
2013-03-28 05:09:38 PM

Mikey1969: The point is that it has no details on what he did at 12, why he's charged with those particular crimes or anything, it just makes sure to point out over and over that he's a "bad guy", but we don't really know, do we? Irresponsible? Yep. Bad parent? Sounds like it, but they're making him sound like a 12 year old Ted Bundy.

For perspective on those crimes of his, keep in mind that in the US, if you tell people to move across the room in a standoff situation, it becomes kidnapping.

Hell, for all we know, he played Dr with a buddy, was afraid of catching 'Gay' from it and told the other kid he'd kick his ass if he said anything. We don't know because they list a bunch of negative shiat and leave it to the readers to judge him. I don't know what his story is, but TFA is a straight up hit piece.


So leave out what he did at 12. Maybe replace it (whatever 'it' is) with "got in trouble with the law" to still help explain why it's hard for him to get a job and he never got an education. And yeah, the piece is about the opposite of sympathetic. I still say it sounds like the judge did the right thing.

It's a sad state of affairs that he and his wife can't figure out how to live in better conditions. But until they do, those kids aren't in a safe environment with them. If there's family to put the kids with so they have a chance to visit the kids, that'd be great. But taking the kids is a better option than leaving them, as I see it.
I wish there was a different option but I don't know what it would be.
 
2013-03-28 05:10:27 PM

sjmcc13: flyinglizard: vernonFL: the father drinks too much gin and the mother is addicted to bingo.
 
Are they from Newfoundland?

If they were, the father and mother would be brother and sister.

Newfoundlanders are not Hillbillies.


I'm a hillbilly. The vast majority of us don't have incest with our siblings or our children. And incest is more prevalent among non-hillbillies than you're aware of.

My mother's mother's family married cousins for at least 100 years, but that was in a small Mennonite community the Blue Ridge mountains in the 19th century when your mobility and therefore choices were limited. Eventually enough progress came to Page County that Grandma could send away to Iowa for fresh input.

Then my grandparents moved to Baltimore and that family still hasn't inbred. In fact my mother and her younger sister married men from different parts of the country; my aunt even picked a Lithuanian refugee. (That family had sided with the Germans, or at least against the Soviets, so when the Germans retreated they had to go with them.)

But anyway. Your anti-hillibilly slur is duly noted: please desist.
 
2013-03-28 05:12:00 PM

IRQ12: Mikey1969: ....
Hell, for all we know, he played Dr with a buddy, was afraid of catching 'Gay' from it and told the other kid he'd kick his ass if he said anything. We don't know because they list a bunch of negative shiat and leave it to the readers to judge him. I don't know what his story is, but TFA is a straight up hit piece.

Good point, they should have some sort of authority that is privy to the details oversee their situation and make sure they are living in a manner that is not neglectful or abusive.

Don't you wonder why the first kid was taken away?  I'd bet you a cookie that it was because of abuse and neglect.


Could just be that someone somewhere didn't realize that he wasn't a "safe" parent for a few months/ years(However long it was), and THEN took the child away. Once again, this article drops the seed and then relies on you to decide. You could be 100% right also, I see no reason that you wouldn't be. Like I said, my main complaint is with how this is written.
 
2013-03-28 05:12:41 PM
Sounds like two, completely broken people in dire need of excusing themselves from the planet.

He's a cretin.

She's an idiot who's devoted to a cretin.

Sense, this makes none.
 
2013-03-28 05:13:13 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Mikey1969:

I'm not defending the guy, just trying to point out that the article sucks. There is a chance(as I mentioned in another post) that he just played doctor with a buddy, and then threatened him if he told anybody. Just going off the straight charges is never good, especially in this new era of registering everyone as a sex offender.

The guy was a raving psycho.  He butchered 400 chickens and screwed a beagle.  I hope they takie him back to Nevada where he's wanted for banging horses.


Hey, Beagles are 100% consenting...
 
2013-03-28 05:14:10 PM
I bet his sex crimes as a teen had something to do with gerbils.
 
2013-03-28 05:14:51 PM
jvl:

The right to have children and keep them is a Basic Human Right. It's even more fundamental than Free Speech. You do not fark with rights like these without one hell of a lot of reason to do so.

6/10 because you've GOT to be kidding.

I say reproduction and child-rearing should be regarded as separate things and both should be strictly licensed and overseen. At least we ought to be able to have people like this sterilized.
 
2013-03-28 05:15:17 PM

jvl: Lionel Mandrake: jvl: Lionel Mandrake: Sounds like he lost the kids for what he's been doing, beginning at age 12.

The Judge said so. Judge is God; he decides what is right and proper. Judge gives your children away for permanent adoption for your precrimes. You will obey citizen. The Judge knows best, right?

I'm not sure what point you were trying to make, but you failed miserably.

If only there were some kind of reference, a link if you will, in my comment to a case where Canadian Judges routinely took children away to make sure they had better lives.


I missed the part where the kid was taken away years ago to a residential school because his parents were deemed to be unfit do to their ancestry.

Guess what?  Innocent people have been locked up for murder before!  Should we let out all the people accused of murder because some dickhead judge and/or lawyer and/or jury f*cked up in the past?

Do you see now how your point was stupid and irrelevant?
 
2013-03-28 05:16:06 PM

I May Be Crazy But...: So leave out what he did at 12. Maybe replace it (whatever 'it' is) with "got in trouble with the law" to still help explain why it's hard for him to get a job and he never got an education. And yeah, the piece is about the opposite of sympathetic. I still say it sounds like the judge did the right thing.

It's a sad state of affairs that he and his wife can't figure out how to live in better conditions. But until they do, those kids aren't in a safe environment with them. If there's family to put the kids with so they have a chance to visit the kids, that'd be great. But taking the kids is a better option than leaving them, as I see it.
I wish there was a different option but I don't know what it would be.


I think the fact that he coulldn't attend school starting at Grade 9 may have really farked up his ability to function socially(Which would include parenting children). You do a lot of growing psychologically and emotionally during those 4 years of high school. I think this would also be a situation for some kind of assistance, I don't know, the 'learn how to be a functional member of society' version of rehab or something?
 
2013-03-28 05:21:34 PM

Mikey1969: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: But the part where the article said that the LAST THREE of the four children were taken away at the hospital means that the first one was not, right? And they lost that one after having some time to try out their parenting abilities.

Or they weren't on the radar yet. It could be that nobody knew he wasn't supposed to have kids, and realized it when the child was older, and started watching the couple closely after that.

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: IDK how it works in Canada, but my mom's good friend was immediately given custody of her grandson after her daughter was thought to have shaken her oldest child, her ex-husband was immediately awarded custody of their second child because of what she did to their first child. If she had more children, TX would have taken them away immediately too, even though she didn't actually get charged with a crime (the physical damage was likely, but not conclusively, due to shaking, but it was enough that they couldn't take the risk with more children.)

Sorry, this pisses me off, too. We have due process for a reason. This is part of the reason that I'm terrified any time my 4 year old daughter gets injured. What if I'm "thought" to have done something?

/Yet I got stuck with emotionally and physically abusive adoptive parents for 8 years, and it took my statements to a Group Home house parent years later before the state acted to do anything. Apparently being locked in your room and made to piss in a coffee can is frowned on after the fact.


I'm not saying its good or right, but when your mother, who hates your husband, takes his side when he divorces you while you're pregnant with another child after an incident with your older child that seems an awful lot like shaken baby? And your mother supports him in his bid to get full custody of that unborn child during the divorce and it works? With the state of our country's family court system and the way they treat fathers? I think its probably much, much different than your daughter having a slip and fall.

Hell, my brother was in urgent care for broken bones and stitches at least twice a year from the time he was 2 until he was 16. He broke all of his fingers at least once during that 14 year time period. He broke limbs, got very strange injuries that defy explanation, but no one ever investigated our family. He was diagnosed and treated as a super clumsy kid. He's also exceptionally athletic, so go figure how he can be highly coordinated AND clumsy at the same time...
 
2013-03-28 05:24:03 PM

I_Am_Weasel: The judge noted they had not yet sought help for some of their own admitted problems, namely that the father drinks too much gin and the mother is addicted to bingo.


This judge must live in a veal box. That's Canada in a nutshell.
 
2013-03-28 05:24:26 PM
12?

www.reelingreviews.com

"You don't know Newfoundlanders."
 
2013-03-28 05:27:13 PM
Mikey1969:

I think the fact that he coulldn't attend school starting at Grade 9 may have really farked up his ability to function socially(Which would include parenting children). You do a lot of growing psychologically and emotionally during those 4 years of high school.

I dropped out of school in 8th grade. I didn't want kids even then and never had any before getting sterilized at age 43, which was probably a good thing. But lack of high school education by itself should not disqualify people from becoming parents.

The part about the dead dog in a squalid house should though.

 
2013-03-28 05:28:22 PM
When is this gonna happen to the Duggars?
 
2013-03-28 05:29:15 PM

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I'm not saying its good or right, but when your mother, who hates your husband, takes his side when he divorces you while you're pregnant with another child after an incident with your older child that seems an awful lot like shaken baby? And your mother supports him in his bid to get full custody of that unborn child during the divorce and it works? With the state of our country's family court system and the way they treat fathers? I think its probably much, much different than your daughter having a slip and fall.


Not saying it was wrong, just the "suspected" thing with no actual due process makes me shudder. Shaken babies are no joke, I just see a lot of potential for over-reacting overall in this. Not necessarily in your situation, it's just in general how badly this could possibly go.
 
2013-03-28 05:31:44 PM

Mikey1969: I think the fact that he coulldn't attend school starting at Grade 9 may have really farked up his ability to function socially(Which would include parenting children). You do a lot of growing psychologically and emotionally during those 4 years of high school. I think this would also be a situation for some kind of assistance, I don't know, the 'learn how to be a functional member of society' version of rehab or something?


If that's something that can be taught later in life, do it. I think it would be great. In the meantime, he needs to not be responsible for another living critter.

I'm not saying the kids ought to be removed to punish the two of them (for being losers, I guess?). I just think leaving the kids would be bad enough for them that it's the better thing to do. And if there's a way to teach these folks how to live better, then that's the RIGHT thing to do.
 
2013-03-28 05:40:07 PM

SlothB77: i don't know about the pedophilia considering he was just a child himself when he allegedly committed them, but

They once lived in a tent at a trailer park.
A child-protection agent reported in 2011 that the state of their home was "deplorable, smelling of urine, feces and other unknown smells and extreme filth."

There was no heat at the home, either.
They've had other problems at home too, with authorities in 2010 seizing around 30 animals from their house. They removed gerbils, mice, rats, snakes, dogs (including one that was in such bad health it had to be put down) and cats.
Some of the animals found in the house had been dead for a while.

isn't an environment to raise kids in.


Yeah, this.  I've got my doubts that a juvenile offense, of any kind, should basically make somebody lifetime-ineligible to have kids.

However, there seems to be a mountain of evidence that there was plenty of other reasons they were unfit parents, and were providing an unfit environment.
 
2013-03-28 05:41:42 PM

The One True TheDavid: I dropped out of school in 8th grade. I didn't want kids even then and never had any before getting sterilized at age 43, which was probably a good thing. But lack of high school education by itself should not disqualify people from becoming parents.


What I'm saying is that he missed out on a HUGE part of maturing as a child/teenager. Some don't need that socialization, some do. I can see it doing more harm than good...

NOT saying that high school education should be a criteria for parenthood, sorry if there was confusion there.
 
2013-03-28 05:41:58 PM
Without further information on what he did when he was 12, this has got to be one of the most f**ked up situations ever. This seems to be sexual offender laws completely out of control and insane.

A pre-teen will experiment sexually. That's a fact. Especially, boys.

But his record shows otherwise, with him having been convicted of sexual assault, invitation to sexual touching, assault with a weapon, sexual interference and uttering threats.

Knowing the American Judicial System, the 'weapon' could have been a Nerf gun. (Yes. I know the case involves the Canadian Judicial System.) Kids are always threatening each other. Kids used to pelt each other with rocks, sticks and nearly anything else they could lay their hands on. A favorite was a hardened clump of dirt. When I was in school, nearly every boy carried a pocket knife. All of the adults knew it -- and had their own.

After that incident, from what I can tell, the legal system pretty well f**ked him up thoroughly. He was isolated and ostracized. Any shrink will tell you what happens to a person, especially a kid, when they are treated like that. The chances are very high that, actually, he's not a real sex offender. He was just a horny, curious kid. However, their legal system has been working for decades to turn him into a psychopath -- which they can then blame on his previous history, the majority of which they caused, and toss him in jail for life.

Everything that I read that they consider bad can have come from the way he's been treated for most of his life. I've known many a 'bad' kid turn their lives around after school, especially once they got married and had kids. Suddenly, they're average citizens. They're keeping jobs, knocked off the dope, stopped the partying and decided that living like a pig was no longer fun.

Ostracize them, like they've done to this guy, and you're begging for a career criminal.

They're punishing his wife also. I don't recall anything being brought up about her record. However, treating him like krap will affect her also. So, they're punishing her, a potential innocent party, for something he might do.

BTW. Non-sex offenders have lived in much worse conditions with more than one kid and no one gives a shiat. We've got homeless families on the street whose kids main meals come from the free lunch program at a school. And we have city leaders who decide to stop charities from providing them with easily accessed meals because 'it encourages them to hang around the neighborhood and businesses complain'.

If he has not offended since he was 12, especially after having to live basically like Lepers used to be treated, and blacks during the time of legal discrimination and segregation, then I figure he aint gonna.

He has attitude concerning psychological tests? I'm not surprised.

Sex seems to be the only 'crime' we hold against kids from the time they're able to become aroused until they die of old age. Even murder is not held so strictly against them. Actually, with any other crime, their juvenile records are sealed, meaning only law enforcement can access them.
Not everyone in any city they choose to live in -- which is what is happening to this guy.

I don't know his crime but I can tell you that 75% of what folks used to consider sexual experimentation among kids and nothing to get fanatical about, is NOW criminal. Under today's laws, 90% of my graduating high school class would be considered sex offenders.

That might come as a shock to those who are now lawyers, politicians, businessmen and women, parents, grandparents, physicians and scientists. Even those who are the basic hard working stiffs that provide most of the labor in the nation. Some are in law enforcement also.

At least 60% of you FARKers, as kids, due to your exploratory actions as pre-teens or even teens, can be considered sex offenders also. Got kids? A high percentage of them could fit the bill too. Kids will often learn about sex via same sex comparison. It's not homosexuality. It's not 'dirty'. However, today it's a CRIME!

Geez! I thought only the Americans were fanatically insane concerning sex and the legal system. I see now that Canada is just as bad, if not worse.
 
2013-03-28 05:44:30 PM

I May Be Crazy But...: If that's something that can be taught later in life, do it. I think it would be great. In the meantime, he needs to not be responsible for another living critter.


From what I've seen people who behave like this never learn,not even when they are court ordered to take parenting classes and have psych evaluations. The woman in the couple I mentioned has told me before that she only feels like an adult when she has kids or is pregnant. That biatch is 33 years old. She should be able to feel like an adult all the time without neglecting or abusing kids but I guess not.
 
2013-03-28 05:48:06 PM

Mikey1969: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I'm not saying its good or right, but when your mother, who hates your husband, takes his side when he divorces you while you're pregnant with another child after an incident with your older child that seems an awful lot like shaken baby? And your mother supports him in his bid to get full custody of that unborn child during the divorce and it works? With the state of our country's family court system and the way they treat fathers? I think its probably much, much different than your daughter having a slip and fall.

Not saying it was wrong, just the "suspected" thing with no actual due process makes me shudder. Shaken babies are no joke, I just see a lot of potential for over-reacting overall in this. Not necessarily in your situation, it's just in general how badly this could possibly go.


Agreed. I would be more uppity and angry about this if it was a father who was denied his rights because of suspicions. Fathers have had a helluva time being treated fairly.

Even in this article, I doubt that the mother is not permitted the option to raise the children without this super star. My cousin was engaged to the mother of his children and they were living together. They had a daughter and another on the way. When she delivered second daughter, she and the newborn baby tested positive for illicit drugs. Custody of the child was not given to my cousin, because he was not intending to leave their shared home with his two children. His mother took custody and my cousin didn't get custody back again for 3 years. But, the key is, he got custody back when he left his fiancée, since she hid the drug habit and then suggested that the child might not be his afterall...
 
2013-03-28 05:50:51 PM
What's a Canada?
 
2013-03-28 05:55:57 PM
Rik01: ....
Everything that I read that they consider bad can have come from the way he's been treated for most of his life. I've known many a 'bad' kid turn their lives around after school, especially once they got married and had kids. Suddenly, they're average citizens. They're keeping jobs, knocked off the dope, stopped the partying and decided that living like a pig was no longer fun.
.

And something in this article indicates that these people are "average citizens" who have/are "keeping jobs, knocked off the dope, stopped the partying and decided that living like a pig was no longer fun "?

Again:  I'll bet the farm that kid #1 was taken from the home because of abuse/neglect/sanitary conditions and the criminal history was only then brought to the attention of the courts as a part of usual checks and whatnot.  I  highly doubt they showed up one day to take the kid because of something he did when he was 12.
 
2013-03-28 06:11:40 PM

jvl: Car_Ramrod: Did... did you read the article? Do you disagree with the judge? Or are you just one of those blanket anti-authoritarians that love using the terms "citizen" and "precrime" like you're in an Orwell book? Dude did not deserve to keep his kid; he obviously can't take care of a child if he and his wife can't take care of themselves.

Let me put this in terms even a maroon could understand...

The right to have children and keep them is a Basic Human Right. It's even more fundamental than Free Speech. You do not fark with rights like these without one hell of a lot of reason to do so.

Something he did at 12 so we take away his children? Fark you. Doesn't take care of his pets so we take away his children? Fark you harder. He is a drunk? Don't make me fark you again!  Which part of "Basic Human Right" was not understood?  Now, if the Judge is basing his decisions on something not mentioned in the article like what happened with the first baby, then I'm okay with this.

But you do not execute a person for not taking care of his pets. You do not remove the right of Free Speech and Free Association for not taking care of pets. You do not remove the Right to Reproduce for not taking care of pets.

Rights. Sometimes the word Right is abused with all the "it's my Right to do xxx" which is heard over often in society. This is not one of those cases. This is one of the Fundamental Rights.


Yes, but when somebody is not taking care of this kids, as this guy and his wife couldn't possibly have been doing, somebody has to step in to protect them.  You do not have a fundamental right to abuse a child, period.
 
2013-03-28 06:11:55 PM
trust me when I say this, Canada's child services ministry is a sewer filled withthe types of social workers who SHOULD NOT be in a position to judge who are fit parents and who are not. The govnmt needs to stay the fark out of our lives and homes.
 
2013-03-28 06:13:22 PM

Mikey1969: The My Little Pony Killer: "You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

This is not something you want to admit while trying to paint yourself as a victim to the media.

What? The fact that at a very important time in your life, both socially and developmentally, the State put you in the school version of solitary confinement? I don't know what he did with who, because the story actually sucks, but this is a truly bullshiat move, and yes, it makes him the victim in that part of it.


No, the fact that he understands the problem lies with him, but thinks that the onus is on others to help him through it. He knows he needs to learn how to act properly and respect other people. Is there anything listed in TFA that would lead you to believe that he is actually taking steps towards this on his own? Because it sounds to me like he just plain gave up.
 
2013-03-28 06:17:21 PM

Mikey1969: The One True TheDavid:

I dropped out of school in 8th grade. I didn't want kids even then and never had any before getting sterilized at age 43, which was probably a good thing. But lack of high school education by itself should not disqualify people from becoming parents.

What I'm saying is that he missed out on a HUGE part of maturing as a child/teenager. Some don't need that socialization, some do. I can see it doing more harm than good...

NOT saying that high school education should be a criteria for parenthood, sorry if there was confusion there.


No confusion & no offense, I just wanted to play devil's advocate. And you might be wrong that missing out on the socialization one gets high school is a bad thing; I certainly know a few people who suffered from the other kids all through high school. Learning that being different in any way gets you harassed, bullied or beaten up sucks.
 
jvl
2013-03-28 06:17:24 PM

jgilb: Maybe you should allow him to babysit your children to prove he is capable of exercising his "Basic Human Rights".


It is my right to choose babysitters as I see fit. It is his right to reproduce. These are unrelated facts.

The One True TheDavid: I say reproduction and child-rearing should be regarded as separate things and both should be strictly licensed and overseen. At least we ought to be able to have people like this sterilized.


I think morons should be sterilized. Despite my prolific proclamations to implement this policy, it is not so. You think stuff should be overseen, yet that too is not so.

On a related note, reproduction combined with child-rearing are, together, a human right.

Car_Ramrod: What about the right of the child to grow up in a clean, safe, heated home, where it doesn't reek of feces and dead animals?


Objection your honor, facts not in evidence. Counsel for the Prosecution Ramrod has not established that the slack-jawed parent in question would treat a child that way, and precrime is not yet a recognized legal condition.

Yes, of course Child Protective Services, or whatever it is called in Canadian, should be on the alert. But guilt of a crime does not precede a crime.
 
2013-03-28 06:18:47 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Mikey1969: The My Little Pony Killer: "You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

This is not something you want to admit while trying to paint yourself as a victim to the media.

What? The fact that at a very important time in your life, both socially and developmentally, the State put you in the school version of solitary confinement? I don't know what he did with who, because the story actually sucks, but this is a truly bullshiat move, and yes, it makes him the victim in that part of it.

No, the fact that he understands the problem lies with him, but thinks that the onus is on others to help him through it. He knows he needs to learn how to act properly and respect other people. Is there anything listed in TFA that would lead you to believe that he is actually taking steps towards this on his own? Because it sounds to me like he just plain gave up.


Honestly, he sounds like my alcoholic father. People should have known he had issues, so they shouldn't have stressed him out.

It was everyone else's fault that he was a drunk, because he was a fragile little flower with no self control and a genuine addiction, but everyone else drove him to drink. It also happens with mental illness too. "I have X disorder, why can't everyone just be more patient and tolerant of me as I emote non-stop and disrupt everyone's life while refusing treatment!"
 
2013-03-28 06:19:15 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Sounds like he lost the kids for what he's been doing, beginning at age 12.


This
 
2013-03-28 06:22:01 PM
While his 'rights' being violated bother me; ultimately, I'm going to have to side with the baby having the right to grow up in a safe environment.
 
2013-03-28 06:22:02 PM

jvl: The One True TheDavid: I say reproduction and child-rearing should be regarded as separate things and both should be strictly licensed and overseen. At least we ought to be able to have people like this sterilized.

I think morons should be sterilized.


Who determines who is a "moron?"

Judges?
 
2013-03-28 06:22:57 PM

outtatowner: function SOswitchMenu() {var el = document.getElementById('bodyDiv');if ( el.style.display != "none" ) { el.style.display = 'none';}else { el.style.display = '';}var el2 = document.getElementById('h2');if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText";return;}if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText";return;}}function SOframeReload() {var f = document.getElementById('soFrame');f.src = f.src;}Satanic_Hamster:You'd think he would have noticed a pattern after the 2nd or 3rd kid.

"it's the oddest thing; I have a kid and the government takes it away immediately.  What are the odds of it happening a fourth time?"


Bah, you missed the part where mother is addicted to bingo. He's just trying to help her fill a row an collect the prize.


You got yourself a virus there ottatowner. Might want to install and run Malware Bytes.
 
2013-03-28 06:25:57 PM

rkiller1: TFA: They've had other problems at home too, with authorities in 2010 seizing around 30 animals from their house. They removed gerbils, mice, rats, snakes, dogs (including one that was in such bad health it had to be put down) and cats.
[cdn.dashburst.com image 365x277]


I read that the dog had bad breath, and I was thinking that dog had to have been melting the cage doors so they had to put him down.
 
jvl
2013-03-28 06:26:56 PM

Lionel Mandrake: jvl: The One True TheDavid: I say reproduction and child-rearing should be regarded as separate things and both should be strictly licensed and overseen. At least we ought to be able to have people like this sterilized.

I think morons should be sterilized.

Who determines who is a "moron?"

Judges?


I decide. I am the law. Also, those who I a delegate my power to, occasionally for a small fee.
 
2013-03-28 06:27:33 PM
Regardless of how they got that way, some people really are too damaged to be even half-decent parents. I'm inclined to believe that his "sex crime" at age 12 wasn't as bad as people seem to think, but the bit about the squalid house with the dead dog, the part about him drinking and taking his anger out on his wife, and her repeated choice to stay with him and get pregnant by him, would incline me to believe that they shouldn't be trusted with kids even if I knew nothing of his life before age 18.
 
2013-03-28 06:35:37 PM
jvl:

On a related note, reproduction combined with child-rearing are, together, a human right.

I very strongly disagree. To employ this phrase without sarcasm or facetiousness for once, won't somebody think of the children? Don't you agree that a kid has a right not to be reared by a drunk father with anger problems and an imbecilic mother in a house with dead dogs?
 
2013-03-28 06:38:53 PM

ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Mikey1969: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I'm not saying its good or right, but when your mother, who hates your husband, takes his side when he divorces you while you're pregnant with another child after an incident with your older child that seems an awful lot like shaken baby? And your mother supports him in his bid to get full custody of that unborn child during the divorce and it works? With the state of our country's family court system and the way they treat fathers? I think its probably much, much different than your daughter having a slip and fall.

Not saying it was wrong, just the "suspected" thing with no actual due process makes me shudder. Shaken babies are no joke, I just see a lot of potential for over-reacting overall in this. Not necessarily in your situation, it's just in general how badly this could possibly go.

Agreed. I would be more uppity and angry about this if it was a father who was denied his rights because of suspicions. Fathers have had a helluva time being treated fairly.

Even in this article, I doubt that the mother is not permitted the option to raise the children without this super star. My cousin was engaged to the mother of his children and they were living together. They had a daughter and another on the way. When she delivered second daughter, she and the newborn baby tested positive for illicit drugs. Custody of the child was not given to my cousin, because he was not intending to leave their shared home with his two children. His mother took custody and my cousin didn't get custody back again for 3 years. But, the key is, he got custody back when he left his fiancée, since she hid the drug habit and then suggested that the child might not be his afterall...


It does seem that the 'father hate' is (very) slowly swinging over in a more father-friendly direction, but it could take forever... They just passed a law in UT(Apparently only state where this was legal) that made it illegal for a mother to fraudulently represent the status of a child to the father. Women would claim the baby had been miscarried or stillborn, then come to Utah and have the baby and raise it, screwing the father out of any rights he would have had, as he thought the child was dead. This was legal to do until this legislative session. With more fathers taking an active interest in their children, and women showing that they aren't all angels, maybe it will end up more fair before I grow old...
 
2013-03-28 06:45:09 PM

D135: foxyshadis: In typical tabloid fashion, the most outrageous part of the situation is presented first, then followed up by the "oh, yeah, now it all makes sense" bits...

...which then leads into the whole "should some people be chemically castrated?" portion of the article


That was my thought, too. If they're just going to keep taking his kids away why let him have any more? But then I realized it's possible he could someday straighten his shiat out and it wouldn't be fair to impose such a permanent solution.
 
2013-03-28 06:47:48 PM

jvl: Lionel Mandrake: jvl: The One True TheDavid: I say reproduction and child-rearing should be regarded as separate things and both should be strictly licensed and overseen. At least we ought to be able to have people like this sterilized.

I think morons should be sterilized.

Who determines who is a "moron?"

Judges?

I decide. I am the law. Also, those who I a delegate my power to, occasionally for a small fee.


I accept your apology
 
jvl
2013-03-28 06:59:46 PM

The One True TheDavid: Don't you agree that a kid has a right not to be reared by a drunk father with anger problems and an imbecilic mother in a house with dead dogs?


First, there is a presumption that would happen without proof.

Second, since we are talking about basic human rights, I strongly disagree that the consequences of parental neglect should precede the neglect.

Third, to the best of my knowledge drunk fathers with anger issues do not routinely have their children removed from them unless they actually commit an abuse or permit dead dogs in the house.

You might wish for a different system. (Insert "you know who else" joke here). It is a dangerous and slippery slope to decide who is and is not fit for parenting absent actual wrongdoing.
 
2013-03-28 07:05:29 PM

Lurk sober post drunk: sometimes i feel down about my life, but...jesus, these people are train wrecks made out of human parts.


This is why I Fark.
 
2013-03-28 07:06:05 PM
Those kids are better off in pretty much any other home. Jesus.
 
2013-03-28 07:08:30 PM
And you know what, I don't know Canada's laws/system...but I do know in every single goddamned case in the US I've seen where parents have biatched the state took away their kids for no good reason and they're fighting to get them back...they can list the amount of things they have done to comply with the court. They've gone to all counseling, they've moved, they've done whatever they were told to do, to try to regain their kids.

These two asshats didn't do squat really, beyond the very initial phase then they were done complying.

And ignoring whatever happened when he was 12, without that based purely on everything else? Those kids are better off elsewhere. Those two idiots can't even take care of themselves.
 
2013-03-28 07:09:22 PM

Kahabut: Car_Ramrod: I understand all the reasons why they're taking his kids away, and he should probably stop having them until he gets his life back together. However, I will say this:

Because of his sex crimes, he was banned from attending high school and instead took correspondence courses, alone at the kitchen table in the group home. He gave up after Grade 9. "You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.

Yeah, I'm actually kinda curious what he did to deserve being ostracized so thoroughly.  Basically, I wonder if I agree or not.

For my money though, if the guy did something so horrible, why is he alive at all?  And if it wasn't bad enough to die for, why is it such a big deal that he can't even be around peers? Yes, you asshole, that is exactly how parenting works.

Also...  "Essentially, this court is being asked to take a chance and allow (the couple) to use (the girl) as a parental training tool," the judge ruled. "
Yes, you asshole, that is exactly how parenting works.


We don't execute people here in Canada, you barbarian.
 
2013-03-28 07:17:51 PM

Mikey1969: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: Mikey1969: ImpatientlyUnsympathetic: I'm not saying its good or right, but when your mother, who hates your husband, takes his side when he divorces you while you're pregnant with another child after an incident with your older child that seems an awful lot like shaken baby? And your mother supports him in his bid to get full custody of that unborn child during the divorce and it works? With the state of our country's family court system and the way they treat fathers? I think its probably much, much different than your daughter having a slip and fall.

Not saying it was wrong, just the "suspected" thing with no actual due process makes me shudder. Shaken babies are no joke, I just see a lot of potential for over-reacting overall in this. Not necessarily in your situation, it's just in general how badly this could possibly go.

Agreed. I would be more uppity and angry about this if it was a father who was denied his rights because of suspicions. Fathers have had a helluva time being treated fairly.

Even in this article, I doubt that the mother is not permitted the option to raise the children without this super star. My cousin was engaged to the mother of his children and they were living together. They had a daughter and another on the way. When she delivered second daughter, she and the newborn baby tested positive for illicit drugs. Custody of the child was not given to my cousin, because he was not intending to leave their shared home with his two children. His mother took custody and my cousin didn't get custody back again for 3 years. But, the key is, he got custody back when he left his fiancée, since she hid the drug habit and then suggested that the child might not be his afterall...

It does seem that the 'father hate' is (very) slowly swinging over in a more father-friendly direction, but it could take forever... They just passed a law in UT(Apparently only state where this was legal) that made it illegal for a mother to fraudul ...


Father Hate and the propaganda of "men are unfit parents" is something that angers me. I was raised in a home with an unfit father, my dad was the type that would have done anything to take my brother and I if my parents split up, including probably kidnapping us. He was a real ugly kind of person, I also do believe that had my mom left, he might have been the type that annihilated the entire family and then killed himself. I know there are really awful fathers, but I have seen mothers that have done anything and everything to alienate and destroy the relationship between their children's father and the kids out of spite and nothing more. And at the end of the day, I just want these women to sit down and explain why, even though they picked them and are not claiming to have been raped and forced to rear these children with a husband they hate, they are now certain that he's a loser jackwagon who should have no rights.

My sister-in-law is refusing to seek court ordered child support for one of my brother's step daughters, because she doesn't want anything from her ex-boyfriend. Stupid cow, he has a right to know where you're hiding his child (the real reason I think she's refusing to get the support... they'd have to know where she is in order to get her the money, and therefore, visitation would be enforced?) Women have lost their way in the last 30 years and it seems like we're trying to run so many things into the ground out of spite.
 
2013-03-28 07:27:14 PM
So here's my question for this dork, and for everyone here who seems to be white-knighting him and his right to not be pre-convicted for crimes he might not yet commit and all that:

Because of his sex crimes, he was banned from attending high school and instead took correspondence courses, alone at the kitchen table in the group home. He gave up after Grade 9. "You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

That was SEVENTEEN years ago. He's now 29 (12 + 17 = 29). He's had plenty of time to learn how to act properly and respect people and behave like a normal person. He's no longer a child or even a teenager--he's a grown man. Even if his teenage years were bad because the province of Ottawa overreacted about an innocent game of doctor or whatever--that's been a long time. Could it be that it's not that other people can't leave his past behind him, it's that HE can't leave it behind?
 
2013-03-28 07:31:44 PM
The judge noted they had not yet sought help for some of their own admitted problems, namely that the father drinks too much gin and the mother is addicted to bingo.

The judge also went on to note that the father farts too much in bed and the mother buys the father bath puffs every Christmas despite the fact that he refuses to use them and keeps throwing them out.

We'd have orphanages the size of skyscrapers if this was grounds for losing child custody.
 
2013-03-28 07:44:18 PM

The One True TheDavid: jvl:

On a related note, reproduction combined with child-rearing are, together, a human right.

I very strongly disagree. To employ this phrase without sarcasm or facetiousness for once, won't somebody think of the children? Don't you agree that a kid has a right not to be reared by a drunk father with anger problems and an imbecilic mother in a house with dead dogs?


You have the right to bare arms, but you can lose that by being an asshat.
 
jvl
2013-03-28 07:47:39 PM

Gyrfalcon: So here's my question for this dork, and for everyone here who seems to be white-knighting him


Just so we're clear: a person who defends the Free Speech rights of the KKK is not white-knighting them.
 
2013-03-28 07:59:07 PM
Sound like the poster models for Eugenics.

/Snip, snip, nudge, nudge.
 
2013-03-28 08:03:27 PM

Bullroarer_Took: Sound like the poster models for Eugenics.

/Snip, snip, nudge, nudge.


I vote for a little more than just snip, snip.  I would suggest total testicle and ovary removal.  We shouldn't take any chances.
 
2013-03-28 08:04:56 PM

fusillade762: "I'm still paying for it every day. I can't walk down the street without someone calling me a goof or a pedophile,"

Goof? Does that word mean something different in Canadian?


Yes, it does. I'ts a prison term, and calling somebody a goof is a terrible insult. You are telling them that they are a child molester and will be killed on the range, in the yard, or while they sleep.

/Learned it from my son who has some friends who have served some time.
//Never call your streetwise kid a "goof"
///ever.
 
2013-03-28 08:19:12 PM

Maud Dib: outtatowner: function SOswitchMenu() {var el = document.getElementById('bodyDiv');if ( el.style.display != "none" ) { el.style.display = 'none';}else { el.style.display = '';}var el2 = document.getElementById('h2');if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText";return;}if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText";return;}}function SOframeReload() {var f = document.getElementById('soFrame');f.src = f.src;}Satanic_Hamster:You'd think he would have noticed a pattern after the 2nd or 3rd kid.

"it's the oddest thing; I have a kid and the government takes it away immediately.  What are the odds of it happening a fourth time?"


Bah, you missed the part where mother is addicted to bingo. He's just trying to help her fill a row an collect the prize.

You broke the Internets.


He's a computer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ias31By60N8
 
2013-03-28 08:23:12 PM
You're a funny guy...you amooze me.
I try. It`s best when people take me totally cereal...


I understand, just getting your Kix.
 
2013-03-28 08:38:56 PM
Ahh Lanark county and the ottawa valley... It's the Deep South of Ontario. You know the place where most family trees don't branch.  I taught HS out there for a few years. Half the kids were good hard working farm kids... The other half were related :)
 
2013-03-28 08:56:40 PM

jvl: Car_Ramrod: Did... did you read the article? Do you disagree with the judge? Or are you just one of those blanket anti-authoritarians that love using the terms "citizen" and "precrime" like you're in an Orwell book? Dude did not deserve to keep his kid; he obviously can't take care of a child if he and his wife can't take care of themselves.

Let me put this in terms even a maroon could understand...

The right to have children and keep them is a Basic Human Right. It's even more fundamental than Free Speech. You do not fark with rights like these without one hell of a lot of reason to do so.

Something he did at 12 so we take away his children? Fark you. Doesn't take care of his pets so we take away his children? Fark you harder. He is a drunk? Don't make me fark you again!  Which part of "Basic Human Right" was not understood?  Now, if the Judge is basing his decisions on something not mentioned in the article like what happened with the first baby, then I'm okay with this.

But you do not execute a person for not taking care of his pets. You do not remove the right of Free Speech and Free Association for not taking care of pets. You do not remove the Right to Reproduce for not taking care of pets.

Rights. Sometimes the word Right is abused with all the "it's my Right to do xxx" which is heard over often in society. This is not one of those cases. This is one of the Fundamental Rights.


If children were property and had no basic human rights of their own, you would almost have a point.
 
2013-03-28 08:58:51 PM

fusillade762: "I'm still paying for it every day. I can't walk down the street without someone calling me a goof or a pedophile,"

Goof? Does that word mean something different in Canadian?


Yes, especially in prison. Basically equivalent to dropping the N bomb with malice, in terms of how offended some people will get over it.
 
2013-03-28 08:59:58 PM

jvl: The One True TheDavid:

Don't you agree that a kid has a right not to be reared by a drunk father with anger problems and an imbecilic mother in a house with dead dogs?

First, there is a presumption that would happen without proof.


The sun has risen every day for millions of years. You want to bet it will stop shining overnight?


Second, since we are talking about basic human rights, I strongly disagree that the consequences of parental neglect should precede the neglect.

Of course you're right. Every kid deserves a chance to be neglected, or worse, by crazy, drunk, stupid parents who can't even get the dead dog out of the living room.


Third, to the best of my knowledge drunk fathers with anger issues do not routinely have their children removed from them unless they actually commit an abuse or permit dead dogs in the house.

More drunk fathers with anger issues should lose their kids, or at least be prevented from having any more. What I don't get is why so many of 'em don't decide themselves not to have kids, thereby sparing themselves the trouble and expense: are they breeding victims or are they just stupid?


You might wish for a different system. (Insert "you know who else" joke here). It is a dangerous and slippery slope to decide who is and is not fit for parenting absent actual wrongdoing.

The old I get the less "democratic" I am. Maybe in a dozen generations of careful breeding, management and education we might get a population that can be trusted to try to live up to a more libertarian ethics, but we should begin by thinning the herd. It's not like H. "sapiens" is an endangered species. And no one culture, civilization or ethnicity is inherently superior to all the others, therefore we should apply the same standards to all. (E.g., that the Koran advises men to beat their wives is not reason enough to not forbid them from doing so.)

And "three generations of idiots is enough."
 
2013-03-28 09:03:36 PM
Lurk sober post drunk:

sometimes i feel down about my life, but...jesus, these people are train wrecks made out of human parts.

I resemble that remark. But at least I never had any kids.
 
2013-03-28 09:18:33 PM

ReapTheChaos: Neither of these two should be raising kids if even half of what the article describes is correct. Sounds to me like the sex offense is just the icing on the cake so to speak.


The rancid mayonnaise on the shiat sandwich.
 
2013-03-28 09:37:59 PM
If I ever win the lottery and have enough extra to blow, I will set up clinics to offer FREE vasectomies to anyone of legal age who wants 'em.
 
2013-03-28 09:44:03 PM

Lady Indica: If I ever win the lottery and have enough extra to blow, I will set up clinics to offer FREE vasectomies to anyone of legal age who wants 'em.


I bet you could recoup some of the investment by selling gift certificates as gag gifts.
 
2013-03-28 10:11:48 PM

justneal: I_Am_Weasel: The judge noted they had not yet sought help for some of their own admitted problems, namely that the father drinks too much gin and the mother is addicted to bingo.

I bet they also don't think much of Inco either.

so much bloody win in this responce


Too soon.
 
2013-03-28 11:44:52 PM

SlothB77: i don't know about the pedophilia considering he was just a child himself when he allegedly committed them, but

They once lived in a tent at a trailer park.
A child-protection agent reported in 2011 that the state of their home was "deplorable, smelling of urine, feces and other unknown smells and extreme filth."

There was no heat at the home, either.
They've had other problems at home too, with authorities in 2010 seizing around 30 animals from their house. They removed gerbils, mice, rats, snakes, dogs (including one that was in such bad health it had to be put down) and cats.
Some of the animals found in the house had been dead for a while.

isn't an environment to raise kids in.


THIS. This wasn't about the potential for sexual abuse; it was about the  filthy home and potential sexual abuse. The big reason was the filthy home and wino parents.
 
2013-03-28 11:55:01 PM
I keep wondering if everyone read the same article I did.

A whole bunch of you are white knighting him, suggesting his sexual assault victim was his age so he's not really a pedophile, that whatever the sexual assault was it was probably not a big deal, and the list goes on and on.


From the bloody article:

The judge's ruling also referenced a recent sexual behaviour assessment that concluded the father's likelihood of re-offending in a "violent manner is deemed to be in the high-risk range."

He then refused another test.

He didn't just mess around a child when he was 12, he VIOLENTLY sexually abused a child, and is likely to do it again.

But go ahead, let him babysit your children or whatever and give him his chance to prove himself.
 
2013-03-28 11:56:51 PM

big pig peaches: Why can't we just neuter them?


Lots and lots of this with something to chill them out on the side.
 
2013-03-29 12:13:56 AM

dready zim: rkiller1: dready zim: This is why there should be a basic test to become a parent and if you don`t pass you stay sterile...
You could have questions like
Your baby is crying do you,

A, Check its nappy
B, See if it wants a bottle
C, Drink some gin
D, Go out and play bingo
E, Hit it
F, Try to have sex with it

Please circle two answers

You're a funny guy...you amooze me.

I try. It`s best when people take me totally cereal...


It is really a b and c. The crying drives ya to drink.
 
2013-03-29 12:20:23 AM
FTA: "Essentially, this court is being asked to take a chance and allow (the couple) to use (the girl) as a parental training tool," the judge ruled.

Oh geez, tell me it's not going to be one of those cases where an 18 y/o slept with his perfectly willing and consenting 17 y/o GF but she had butthurt parents....

They've had other problems at home too, with authorities in 2010 seizing around 30 animals from their house. They removed gerbils, mice, rats, snakes, dogs (including one that was in such bad health it had to be put down) and cats.

I think here even the critter lovers and the GET OFF MAH YERD people can agree on this one - if they can't take care of pets, then they obviously aren't fit to raise a child. I was about to suggest licensing for parents, but considering how poorly everything else is run... :/
 
2013-03-29 01:16:56 AM
The Judge is into human trafficking just like the Catholic church in Spain, but with CPS as his weapon of choice.

The Judge is an asshole.
 
2013-03-29 01:33:57 AM

sodomizer: These people are fail. Darwin says let them keep the baby and hope it doesn't survive.


Darwin "says" nothing of the sort, and you know it. Natural selection is a process where by genes that lead to the organism's successful reproduction are continued. It is not a "code" that demands that babies those whose parents we deem undesirable ought to be killed through neglect or abuse. Even if you hold the false belief that dysfunctional parenting is entirely a hereditary genetic flaw, simply not having children in the first place would be the logical solution for such parents.
 
2013-03-29 03:05:19 AM

LavenderWolf: Lurk sober post drunk: sometimes i feel down about my life, but...jesus, these people are train wrecks made out of human parts.

This is why I Fark.


To be honest, my husband came downstairs and found me mesmerized by this thread, and I had to explain that the thread itself was a train wreck and that's why I couldn't stop reading it...
 
2013-03-29 04:44:38 AM

foxyshadis: xanadian: Car_Ramrod: There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.

This is pretty much what I'm stuck on.  They doomed him from the get-go.  Blame Canada, indeed.

Also...what, exactly, DID the guy do at 12?  Or dare I ask?

/they listed the charges, but not what he actually DID

Sealed records. It must have been something pretty heinous to be the primary reason though, so I'm imagining raping a preschooler, not pissing on the fence. But I don't know, the prosecution can't say, and he certainly won't tell how bad (or not) it really was.


It's the primary reason chosen by the newspaper, because sex sells.  The judge was more concerned about the couple's current, appalling lack of parenting skills.
 
2013-03-29 06:14:08 AM

Car_Ramrod: you don't want there to be no consequences to their actions


Couldn't the consequences include "address whatever the hell fraked him up sufficiently to make him a rapist at age 12"? I'm not saying there should be no punishment, but even if you're against rehabilitation for adults you have to support it for children. If nothing else it's economically inefficient to jail someone for 70 years.
 
2013-03-29 06:50:43 AM

vernonFL: the father drinks too much gin and the mother is addicted to bingo.

Are they from Newfoundland?



There's a Maclean and Maclean song in there somewhere, I'm certain.
 
2013-03-29 07:06:35 AM

SlothB77: i don't know about the pedophilia considering he was just a child himself when he allegedly committed them, but

They once lived in a tent at a trailer park.

ecx.images-amazon.com

A tent in a trailer park isn't a safe place for kitties.  They get all farked up and smelling like cigarettes.
 
2013-03-29 01:32:22 PM

Day_Old_Dutchie: FunkOut: sheep snorter: Meanwhile, in Canada... couple lose fourth child to the government for something dad did when he was 12. .. wait now... read the rest of it

So,, , , , vote Conservative?

We've had the Conservative party in federal power for since 2006. Stevie Sweatervest and his creepy kitten photo-ops.

Kittens? He's moved up to Pandas, now.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/03/24/harper-set-to-greet-pair-of- gi ant-pandas-coming-to-canada/

[s7.postimg.org image 620x465]


He's sure packed on the fat.
 
2013-03-29 01:55:09 PM

Mikey1969: alberta_beef: Pure guesswork, but based on the way they are treating this, I think that when he was 12, his victims were MUCH younger than him. That would account for the extreme bias.

I see nothing to indicate that they are making any kind of distinction at all on the age of whomever he played doctor with.


Yeah well that's because you don't know it's legal for a 12 year old in Canada to have sex with another 12 year old, or anyone +/- 2 years. They had to have been under 10, they also specify it was violent.
 
2013-03-29 05:55:08 PM

jvl: Car_Ramrod: Did... did you read the article? Do you disagree with the judge? Or are you just one of those blanket anti-authoritarians that love using the terms "citizen" and "precrime" like you're in an Orwell book? Dude did not deserve to keep his kid; he obviously can't take care of a child if he and his wife can't take care of themselves.

Let me put this in terms even a maroon could understand...

The right to have children and keep them is a Basic Human Right. It's even more fundamental than Free Speech. You do not fark with rights like these without one hell of a lot of reason to do so.

Something he did at 12 so we take away his children? Fark you. Doesn't take care of his pets so we take away his children? Fark you harder. He is a drunk? Don't make me fark you again!  Which part of "Basic Human Right" was not understood?  Now, if the Judge is basing his decisions on something not mentioned in the article like what happened with the first baby, then I'm okay with this.

But you do not execute a person for not taking care of his pets. You do not remove the right of Free Speech and Free Association for not taking care of pets. You do not remove the Right to Reproduce for not taking care of pets.

Rights. Sometimes the word Right is abused with all the "it's my Right to do xxx" which is heard over often in society. This is not one of those cases. This is one of the Fundamental Rights.


idiot. The child has the right to not have these offensive individuals fark it up.

That is fundamental as well and trumps some cracker wanting a realdoll...

They have not removed the right to reproduce but as soon as the wailing brat comes out it has the right not to have dorkus and doofus kill it in six months.

I say again, you are an idiot. I can see why you stick up for your people...
 
2013-03-29 05:55:49 PM

jvl: Let me put this in terms even a maroon could understand...


maroon indeed.
 
Displayed 238 of 238 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report