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(Ottawa Citizen)   Meanwhile, in Canada... couple lose fourth child to the government for something dad did when he was 12. .. wait now... read the rest of it   (ottawacitizen.com) divider line 238
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34864 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Mar 2013 at 2:53 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-28 01:13:21 PM
Dad? Mom?
 
2013-03-28 01:19:56 PM
The mother being addicted to bingo was the deal-breaker.
 
2013-03-28 01:22:39 PM
5th time's a charm.
 
2013-03-28 01:25:31 PM
The judge noted they had not yet sought help for some of their own admitted problems, namely that the father drinks too much gin and the mother is addicted to bingo.

I bet they also don't think much of Inco either.
 
2013-03-28 01:29:59 PM
I was hoping the headline was a play on words and the story would be about animals. Sadly, it's not.
 
2013-03-28 01:30:17 PM
Some of the animals found in the house had been dead for a while.

Yeah I'm with the judge on this one, if your pets are dying then maybe you're not so much ready for the babby.
 
2013-03-28 01:36:52 PM
Sounds like he lost the kids for what he's been doing, beginning at age 12.
 
2013-03-28 01:37:25 PM
I'm kinda torn on this one - they haven't even had the chance to parent.

But that being said I understand why the government would feel its in the best interest of their children. These guys certainly haven' had a good track record.
 
2013-03-28 01:38:08 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com

...so I can molest them.
 
2013-03-28 01:40:21 PM
I understand all the reasons why they're taking his kids away, and he should probably stop having them until he gets his life back together. However, I will say this:

Because of his sex crimes, he was banned from attending high school and instead took correspondence courses, alone at the kitchen table in the group home. He gave up after Grade 9. "You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.
 
2013-03-28 01:42:39 PM
i don't know about the pedophilia considering he was just a child himself when he allegedly committed them, but

They once lived in a tent at a trailer park.
A child-protection agent reported in 2011 that the state of their home was "deplorable, smelling of urine, feces and other unknown smells and extreme filth."

There was no heat at the home, either.
They've had other problems at home too, with authorities in 2010 seizing around 30 animals from their house. They removed gerbils, mice, rats, snakes, dogs (including one that was in such bad health it had to be put down) and cats.
Some of the animals found in the house had been dead for a while.


isn't an environment to raise kids in.
 
2013-03-28 01:44:13 PM
Even putting aside the sex offense when he was 12, everything about this pair sounds like a disaster.
 
2013-03-28 01:47:46 PM

Car_Ramrod: I understand all the reasons why they're taking his kids away, and he should probably stop having them until he gets his life back together. However, I will say this:

Because of his sex crimes, he was banned from attending high school and instead took correspondence courses, alone at the kitchen table in the group home. He gave up after Grade 9. "You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.


The system he would have been charged under has been replaced, so it's quite possible that the sentencing would no longer include such things.  I am, however, far too lazy to research just what the penalty would be today.
 
2013-03-28 01:52:50 PM

Car_Ramrod: There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.


This is pretty much what I'm stuck on.  They doomed him from the get-go.  Blame Canada, indeed.

Also...what, exactly, DID the guy do at 12?  Or dare I ask?

/they listed the charges, but not what he actually DID
 
2013-03-28 01:58:07 PM
the father drinks too much gin and the mother is addicted to bingo.
 
Are they from Newfoundland?
 
2013-03-28 01:58:09 PM

I_Am_Weasel: Car_Ramrod: I understand all the reasons why they're taking his kids away, and he should probably stop having them until he gets his life back together. However, I will say this:

Because of his sex crimes, he was banned from attending high school and instead took correspondence courses, alone at the kitchen table in the group home. He gave up after Grade 9. "You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.

The system he would have been charged under has been replaced, so it's quite possible that the sentencing would no longer include such things.  I am, however, far too lazy to research just what the penalty would be today.


Well that was 17 years ago, and how the state and people in general view juvenile justice has changed multiple times since then (hell, it's still changing), so I'm sure it is different. It's a tough spot: you don't want there to be no consequences to their actions, but they are still kids, and you don't want their die to be cast so early.
 
2013-03-28 01:58:10 PM

xanadian: Car_Ramrod: There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.

This is pretty much what I'm stuck on.  They doomed him from the get-go.  Blame Canada, indeed.

Also...what, exactly, DID the guy do at 12?  Or dare I ask?

/they listed the charges, but not what he actually DID


They couldn't even keep pets alive. And if the pet died, they didn't even know how to throw them away!

Courts are right. The previous charges were just icing on the cake.
 
2013-03-28 02:44:34 PM
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2013-03-28 02:57:33 PM
Because of his sex crimes, he was banned from attending high school and instead took correspondence courses, alone at the kitchen table in the group home. He gave up after Grade 9. "You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

"And in other news, four pre-teens were arrested and charged as adults in possession of child pornograhy for sexting each other....."
 
2013-03-28 02:58:47 PM
You'd think he would have noticed a pattern after the 2nd or 3rd kid.

"it's the oddest thing; I have a kid and the government takes it away immediately.  What are the odds of it happening a fourth time?"
 
2013-03-28 02:58:57 PM
The couple sound like they have issues with mental health and possibly being developmentally impaired.
 
2013-03-28 02:59:10 PM
"You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

This is not something you want to admit while trying to paint yourself as a victim to the media.
 
2013-03-28 03:01:41 PM
function SOswitchMenu() {var el = document.getElementById('bodyDiv');if ( el.style.display != "none" ) { el.style.display = 'none';}else { el.style.display = '';}var el2 = document.getElementById('h2');if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText";return;}if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText";return;}}function SOframeReload() {var f = document.getElementById('soFrame');f.src = f.src;}
I am ashamed to be from the region.

/so sorry
//no, really, so sorry.
 
2013-03-28 03:02:11 PM
Why can't we just neuter them?
 
2013-03-28 03:02:28 PM
"The father said it was wrong for a court to punish him for future crimes a judge said he was likely to commit."

Welcome to Obama's Canada.
 
2013-03-28 03:02:45 PM
TFA: They've had other problems at home too, with authorities in 2010 seizing around 30 animals from their house. They removed gerbils, mice, rats, snakes, dogs (including one that was in such bad health it had to be put down) and cats.
cdn.dashburst.com
 
2013-03-28 03:03:54 PM

Satanic_Hamster: You'd think he would have noticed a pattern after the 2nd or 3rd kid.

"it's the oddest thing; I have a kid and the government takes it away immediately.  What are the odds of it happening a fourth time?"


I'm just waiting for him to be armed and waiting for the 5th time.

OtherLittleGuy: Because of his sex crimes, he was banned from attending high school and instead took correspondence courses, alone at the kitchen table in the group home. He gave up after Grade 9. "You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

"And in other news, four pre-teens were arrested and charged as adults in possession of child pornograhy for sexting each other....."


Well...they probably didn't have the technology 17 years ago, but yeah, I'm wondering if what he did was along those lines.  Or he diddled another 12-year-old while *being* 12 himself.  The weapons charge thrown into the mix makes me wonder, though...

/unless that was something that happened AFTER he was 12, AFTER the government f*cked him up
 
2013-03-28 03:05:25 PM
This movie is prophetic.
 
2013-03-28 03:05:34 PM

outtatowner: function SOswitchMenu() {var el = document.getElementById('bodyDiv');if ( el.style.display != "none" ) { el.style.display = 'none';}else { el.style.display = '';}var el2 = document.getElementById('h2');if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText";return;}if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText";return;}}function SOframeReload() {var f = document.getElementById('soFrame');f.src = f.src;}
I am ashamed to be from the region.

/so sorry
//no, really, so sorry.


Did the quadratic formula explode? I see a "goog zippy" in there, but it's getting eaten... by some... Linux or something.
 
2013-03-28 03:05:48 PM

xanadian: Car_Ramrod: There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.

This is pretty much what I'm stuck on.  They doomed him from the get-go.  Blame Canada, indeed.


Also...what, exactly, DID the guy do at 12?  Or dare I ask?

/they listed the charges, but not what he actually DID

I heard he was playing monster rain under the porch with Jimmy.
 
2013-03-28 03:06:07 PM
Meanwhile, in Canada... couple lose fourth child to the government for something dad did when he was 12. .. wait now... read the rest of it

So,, , , , vote Conservative?
 
2013-03-28 03:06:37 PM
function SOswitchMenu() {var el = document.getElementById('bodyDiv');if ( el.style.display != "none" ) { el.style.display = 'none';}else { el.style.display = '';}var el2 = document.getElementById('h2');if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText";return;}if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText";return;}}function SOframeReload() {var f = document.getElementById('soFrame');f.src = f.src;}Satanic_Hamster:You'd think he would have noticed a pattern after the 2nd or 3rd kid.

"it's the oddest thing; I have a kid and the government takes it away immediately.  What are the odds of it happening a fourth time?"



Bah, you missed the part where mother is addicted to bingo. He's just trying to help her fill a row an collect the prize.
 
2013-03-28 03:07:14 PM
Klassy couple.
 
2013-03-28 03:07:54 PM

sheep snorter: Meanwhile, in Canada... couple lose fourth child to the government for something dad did when he was 12. .. wait now... read the rest of it

So,, , , , vote Conservative?


We've had the Conservative party in federal power for since 2006. Stevie Sweatervest and his creepy kitten photo-ops.
 
2013-03-28 03:08:14 PM

Lollipop165: I'm kinda torn on this one - they haven't even had the chance to parent.

But that being said I understand why the government would feel its in the best interest of their children. These guys certainly haven' had a good track record.


Only the last three were taken away shortly after birth, so the first one spent some time in their care, you have to assume...
 
2013-03-28 03:08:30 PM

vernonFL: the father drinks too much gin and the mother is addicted to bingo.
 
Are they from Newfoundland?


No, then it would be Beer, and Scratch tickets

also they are in Ontario.
 
2013-03-28 03:09:32 PM
These people are fail. Darwin says let them keep the baby and hope it doesn't survive.
 
2013-03-28 03:10:13 PM

Lollipop165: I'm kinda torn on this one - they haven't even had the chance to parent.

But that being said I understand why the government would feel its in the best interest of their children. These guys certainly haven' had a good track record.


They've had a chance. On pets, which I'm given to understand are easier than children.

Keeping a dog alive might not mean you can be a decent parent, but not being able to keep a dog alive seems like it'd be a good indicator you'll be a bad parent.
 
jvl
2013-03-28 03:10:28 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Sounds like he lost the kids for what he's been doing, beginning at age 12.


The Judge said so. Judge is God; he decides what is right and proper. Judge gives your children away for permanent adoption for your precrimes. You will obey citizen. The Judge knows best, right?
 
2013-03-28 03:10:54 PM

outtatowner: function SOswitchMenu() {var el = document.getElementById('bodyDiv');if ( el.style.display != "none" ) { el.style.display = 'none';}else { el.style.display = '';}var el2 = document.getElementById('h2');if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText";return;}if ( el2.className == "calHeader goog-zippy-collapsed normalText" ) { el2.className = "calHeader goog-zippy-expanded normalText";return;}}function SOframeReload() {var f = document.getElementById('soFrame');f.src = f.src;}Satanic_Hamster:You'd think he would have noticed a pattern after the 2nd or 3rd kid.

"it's the oddest thing; I have a kid and the government takes it away immediately.  What are the odds of it happening a fourth time?"


Bah, you missed the part where mother is addicted to bingo. He's just trying to help her fill a row an collect the prize.


You broke the Internets.
 
2013-03-28 03:11:00 PM

vernonFL: the father drinks too much gin and the mother is addicted to bingo.
 
Are they from Newfoundland?


Sounds more like Sudbury.

/RIP Tom :(
 
2013-03-28 03:11:08 PM

NightOwl2255: I was hoping the headline was a play on words and the story would be about animals. Sadly, it's not.


Well, it kind of is, if you keep reading. In typical tabloid fashion, the most outrageous part of the situation is presented first, then followed up by the "oh, yeah, now it all makes sense" bits.
 
2013-03-28 03:11:25 PM
The house conditions, dead & hoarded animals, no heat, alcohol problems and being on house arrest, and forced to stay separated from the wife for weeks, for a domestic fight - after which she intends to stay with him - would probably have gotten the children taken without that particular offense.  However, even for the sex crime it appears they were considering recent poor assessments, not just the existence of the past record.

With that pile of problems though, it'd just be a game of what happens to the kid first.  Did they not get the message the first three times that they may need to try to fix some of those issues?
 
2013-03-28 03:12:26 PM
Car_Ramrod:
Because of his sex crimes, he was banned from attending high school and instead took correspondence courses, alone at the kitchen table in the group home. He gave up after Grade 9. "You'd think they'd want me interacting with other human beings, learning how to act properly and respect people."

There's got to be a better way to handle these kind of cases. Not completing high school has been shown over and over again to have a huge impact on someone's future. His story was basically written from there.


We've had a problem here in California since at least the early nineties with registered sex offenders erroneously being recorded as having committed their crimes against victims under 14 years of age. Those who can afford lawyers can get it fixed. Those who can't, find they can not get any sort of employment, except drug dealing, burglary, etc. This came up in a third-strike hearing I read recently. The appellent wanted his strikes counted as non-strikes as he had no other way to support himself besides crime. (Didn't work for him. He got life.)
 
2013-03-28 03:12:43 PM

SlothB77: i don't know about the pedophilia considering he was just a child himself when he allegedly committed them, but...


You know who I wanted to fark when I was 12?

i45.tinypic.com


This is what I had access to at 12:
i49.tinypic.com

This is what he "experimented" with at 12.
i45.tinypic.com

Do you not see the problem?
 
2013-03-28 03:13:27 PM
Poor bastard never really had a chance, did he? Though I could be wrong, I suspect they keep having kids not so much from a sense of "maybe this time" as from having such poor judgement that they do not use birth control.

Society failed him, and continues to fail him. At the same time, given the sort of living environment he tends to wind up in, can society chance the kids with them? Probably not. However, if he were to take counselling, get cleaned up, find some sort of work where his past wouldn't haunt him, then maybe.

Pure guesswork, but based on the way they are treating this, I think that when he was 12, his victims were MUCH younger than him. That would account for the extreme bias.
 
2013-03-28 03:13:52 PM
Yea, without knowing what he did at age 12 it's kind of  hard to hate him.  Knowing how he hasn't taken the initiative to improve his position, though, makes it kind of hard to sympathize with him.  AKA:  He sounds fat, lazy, and stupid.  Sterilize him and any sad excuse for a woman who would marry him.
 
2013-03-28 03:14:11 PM
This really bothers me, and I've been in a similar situation as the guy in the article... Land is expensive, I can only afford a trailer home, which I rent.  I'd love to live off my own land, grow vegetables and fruit and be self-sufficient.  If the fruit or vegetables don't get enough water, if they die, does anyone care?  I don't have land, but I still have a farm.  My gerbils, the guinea pigs, cats, and bunnies, they sustain me.  I give them food (sometimes), they reproduce, and then I have nutrients to feed the misses and I over the winter.  Some of them don't do so well.  Some die in a corner, under a pile of laundry or errant foot, is it really that different from a row of corn?  I'm doing what I can to get by, trying to have kids that can help me tend to the farm, same as the guy in the article.  How can I ever make it ahead if they keep stripping me and the misses (I call her our "VP") from our employees?
 
2013-03-28 03:14:22 PM

DrPainMD: "The father said it was wrong for a court to punish him for future crimes a judge said he was likely to commit."

Welcome to ObamaHarper's Canada.


FTFY
 
2013-03-28 03:14:39 PM
xanadian:
Well...they probably didn't have the technology 17 years ago, but yeah, I'm wondering if what he did was along those lines.  Or he diddled another 12-year-old while *being* 12 himself.  The weapons charge thrown into the mix makes me wonder, though...

If he had sex with a 12 year old as a 12 year old, it wouldn't have even been statutory rape. In Canada, it's only statutory rape if the two parties are more than 2 years apart in age if one of them is under the age of consent. In order to be charged with a sex crime at that age, it has to non-consensual and/or violent. From what the courts are saying, he has a sexually violent past.

As for "giving him a chance to be a parent", I completely agree with the courts. Why would you subject a baby to the possibility of sexual assault just in case the parent has changed? Especially since the rest of their life is such a train wreck. If they want to prove they can be good providers, let them keep an animal alive for it's lifespan before considering children.
 
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