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(The Atlantic)   How Ivan Ivanovich helped the Soviets win the space race   (theatlantic.com) divider line 27
    More: Interesting, Soviet Union, space race, manned spaceflight, Ural Mountains, Yuri Gagarin, Lake Vostok, ATC, Sputnik  
•       •       •

2693 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Mar 2013 at 1:55 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



27 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-03-28 01:52:30 PM  
Ivan son of Ivan? Gee, what are the odds?
 
2013-03-28 02:01:21 PM  
That thing just looks creepy.
 
2013-03-28 02:09:27 PM  

tennessee.hillbilly: That thing just looks creepy.


media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-28 02:17:14 PM  
That article was an interesting day in the life of Ivan Ivanovich.
 
2013-03-28 02:36:14 PM  
Ivan Denisovich is unavailable for comment.
 
2013-03-28 02:43:46 PM  
www.mas.io

Space Madness, you say?
 
2013-03-28 03:06:31 PM  
blsciblogs.baruch.cuny.edu
 
2013-03-28 03:10:56 PM  
I thought it was Korolev.
 
2013-03-28 03:14:23 PM  
"OK, the mannequin didn't die. You're up, Yuri."
 
2013-03-28 03:20:38 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: I thought it was Korolev.


Korolev does not equal causation.
 
2013-03-28 03:32:10 PM  
 
2013-03-28 03:45:00 PM  
Of course if the American's hadn't been such arrogant incompetent short sighted idiots there wouldn't have been a space race. The US had a nice advantage over the Ruskies after all. They had von Braun and his team, along with actual V-2's produced via the V-2 missile program. The first image of earth from space was taken with one of those US Army V-2's in 1946, and the first animals were shot into space in 1947 on another (fruit flies btw).

Instead the German team were given a hands off approach to helping with our rocket program, deeply distrusted, while the US military/US government was slow in making progress with actually building rockets.

Meanwhile the Russian's had to reverse engineer the V-2, which they did successfully. First R-1 successfully flew in 1947.

Anyway, I guess my point is that both nations started on a petty even footing. US Military had a bigger lead, but blew it. Then again the Apollo program might not of happened if the US had maintained its lead, and even though the Russian's were first in space it doesn't mean much now days. After all their space program fell into disarray after Sergei Korolev (AKA: Chief Designer) died, and further fell into disarray after the fall of the Soviet Union. The only reason they were able to keep the space program a float at all is because the US government helped keep their program afloat. Whatever your thoughts on the International Space Station, without it the Russian space program would of fallen apart.

Granted, its still not in good shape at the moment. They have launched anything beyond earth since 1988 successfully, so all the best to them on their next attempt and in getting all these rocket failures under control.
 
2013-03-28 03:56:16 PM  
Article is flawed. THE US won the space race. We got to the moon first and claimed it. Move along historical revisionists!

/DRTFA
 
2013-03-28 04:07:53 PM  
FTFA: <i>On March 25, 1961, a group of peasants in Izhevsk, <b>a village near the Ural Mountains</b> in the center of the Soviet Union, watched a man fall from the sky. </i>

600,000+ people does not make a village Mr. Author. It makes one of the most important industrial cities in the USSR which manufactured everything from guns and motorcycles to cars and aircraft components. It was so vitally important to the Soviet economy and military that it was a closed city for most of its existence under the USSR. Even as a soviet citizen, you couldn't go there unless you had special permission.

If you're going to make that much of a mistake in the first paragraph.....
 
2013-03-28 04:08:21 PM  

bbfreak: Of course if the American's hadn't been such arrogant incompetent short sighted idiots there wouldn't have been a space race. The US had a nice advantage over the Ruskies after all. They had von Braun and his team, along with actual V-2's produced via the V-2 missile program. The first image of earth from space was taken with one of those US Army V-2's in 1946, and the first animals were shot into space in 1947 on another (fruit flies btw).


Are you saying that we went into space because of WWII technology? The usual narrative is that we only developped technology because we wanted to go to space. My world view is shattered.
 
2013-03-28 04:15:15 PM  

bbfreak: Of course if the American's hadn't been such arrogant incompetent short sighted idiots there wouldn't have been a space race. The US had a nice advantage over the Ruskies after all. They had von Braun and his team, along with actual V-2's produced via the V-2 missile program. The first image of earth from space was taken with one of those US Army V-2's in 1946, and the first animals were shot into space in 1947 on another (fruit flies btw).

Instead the German team were given a hands off approach to helping with our rocket program, deeply distrusted, while the US military/US government was slow in making progress with actually building rockets.

Meanwhile the Russian's had to reverse engineer the V-2, which they did successfully. First R-1 successfully flew in 1947.

Anyway, I guess my point is that both nations started on a petty even footing. US Military had a bigger lead, but blew it. Then again the Apollo program might not of happened if the US had maintained its lead, and even though the Russian's were first in space it doesn't mean much now days. After all their space program fell into disarray after Sergei Korolev (AKA: Chief Designer) died, and further fell into disarray after the fall of the Soviet Union. The only reason they were able to keep the space program a float at all is because the US government helped keep their program afloat. Whatever your thoughts on the International Space Station, without it the Russian space program would of fallen apart.

Granted, its still not in good shape at the moment. They have launched anything beyond earth since 1988 successfully, so all the best to them on their next attempt and in getting all these rocket failures under control.


To be fair there was plenty of reason not to trust Braun and many of the Germans. They were pretty much amoral scum complicit in the use of slave labor.
 
2013-03-28 04:27:35 PM  
First Human in Space = Yuri Gagarin = they won.

Deal with it.
 
2013-03-28 05:00:08 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: bbfreak: Of course if the American's hadn't been such arrogant incompetent short sighted idiots there wouldn't have been a space race. The US had a nice advantage over the Ruskies after all. They had von Braun and his team, along with actual V-2's produced via the V-2 missile program. The first image of earth from space was taken with one of those US Army V-2's in 1946, and the first animals were shot into space in 1947 on another (fruit flies btw).

Are you saying that we went into space because of WWII technology? The usual narrative is that we only developped technology because we wanted to go to space. My world view is shattered.


Quantum, if you're going to bash scientific advancements, especially with sarcasm, at least have some knowledge of the history of what you're bashing.  All modern rocketry is based on the V-2, and Von Braun was one of the key people to make that possible.

Normally, I just ignore your blathering since you're usually addressing things that could be taken as a matter of opinion, but objective reality is a different matter.  Or, you could just go back to being a grammar Nazi with regards to the possessive apostrophe.
 
2013-03-28 05:34:29 PM  
I heard a story, possibly not true, but someone else made it up, not me, about the early Russian rocket tests. According to my sources, when the first dog went up, it was an after thought. The Russian engineers had built a rocket, and like anyone else who's ever built a rocket, they looked at it and said, "we've gotta put something in our rocket." Normally, you're like 8 years old when this happens, and you catch a spider or some other bug, and you put it in the nose. But these were the first big rockets, and these guys weren't looking for a bug. So they got a dog. And when the rocket came down, they looked at the dog, and they said, "If we're gonna put a man in this, we've gotta think through how this thing is going to land."
Like I said, I'm not sure if this story is true. I'm of an age when Russians were villainized. But there is some truth in the story; not necessarily truth about Russians, but truth about engineers.
 
2013-03-28 05:59:48 PM  

Zafler: Quantum, if you're going to bash scientific advancements, especially with sarcasm, at least have some knowledge of the history of what you're bashing. All modern rocketry is based on the V-2, and Von Braun was one of the key people to make that possible.


Um, what exactly do you think I was trying to say??? You even note my sarcasm, so clearly, one of us is doing something wrong.

Zafler: Normally, I just ignore your blathering since you're usually addressing things that could be taken as a matter of opinion, but objective reality is a different matter. Or, you could just go back to being a grammar Nazi with regards to the possessive apostrophe.


You're talking to me about "objective reality" when I'm the one mocking the uncritical gee-whizz "let's colonize the universe with 3D printed warp drives" brand of sci-fi juvenile nonsense?
 
2013-03-28 09:16:55 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: bbfreak: Of course if the American's hadn't been such arrogant incompetent short sighted idiots there wouldn't have been a space race. The US had a nice advantage over the Ruskies after all. They had von Braun and his team, along with actual V-2's produced via the V-2 missile program. The first image of earth from space was taken with one of those US Army V-2's in 1946, and the first animals were shot into space in 1947 on another (fruit flies btw).

Instead the German team were given a hands off approach to helping with our rocket program, deeply distrusted, while the US military/US government was slow in making progress with actually building rockets.

Meanwhile the Russian's had to reverse engineer the V-2, which they did successfully. First R-1 successfully flew in 1947.

Anyway, I guess my point is that both nations started on a petty even footing. US Military had a bigger lead, but blew it. Then again the Apollo program might not of happened if the US had maintained its lead, and even though the Russian's were first in space it doesn't mean much now days. After all their space program fell into disarray after Sergei Korolev (AKA: Chief Designer) died, and further fell into disarray after the fall of the Soviet Union. The only reason they were able to keep the space program a float at all is because the US government helped keep their program afloat. Whatever your thoughts on the International Space Station, without it the Russian space program would of fallen apart.

Granted, its still not in good shape at the moment. They have launched anything beyond earth since 1988 successfully, so all the best to them on their next attempt and in getting all these rocket failures under control.

To be fair there was plenty of reason not to trust Braun and many of the Germans. They were pretty much amoral scum complicit in the use of slave labor.


So? He was a resource to be used like any other resource, and one we could control easily. Its not like the US military was against using resources despite their immoral past after all. The Japanese were never held fully accountable for their crimes during WWII. Indeed, the monsters of Unit 731 were especially not punished in any way and allowed to go onto successful careers in post-war Japan. All because the biological information obtained from the horrible experiments was deemed too important.

Wasn't like we were trying to be more moral than the Soviets either. For Stalin killed millions of his own people, indeed the people of the Soviet space program were especially motivated by the idea of work camps/death for failure seeing how Stalin didn't particularly like scientist/engineers.
 
2013-03-28 09:20:51 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Um, what exactly do you think I was trying to say??? You even note my sarcasm, so clearly, one of us is doing something wrong.


Von Braun and most of the scientists involved were trying to get to space, that was the main purpose of their research after the war.   I.E. it is objective reality that the rockets were developed further specifically for getting to space.

Quantum Apostrophe: You're talking to me about "objective reality" when I'm the one mocking the uncritical gee-whizz "let's colonize the universe with 3D printed warp drives" brand of sci-fi juvenile nonsense?


In all the threads I've lurked in where you did your song and dance, people were discussing the feasibility of the various technologies that may have space applications.  Pretty close to the only person with an uncritical view of space exploration is your pet strawman.  Does he have a name yet?  If you're going to beat a strawman like that, you should at least come up with a name for it.

I normally don't comment because, even though you're generally beating up a strawman, it's just your opinion that it's not possible and/or not worth the effort to explore space.  Which is your own subjective reality.  But hey, you just go ahead and wind yourself up a bit more, I'm sure you will trot your strawman out for another beat down.
 
2013-03-28 09:58:39 PM  

bbfreak: Philip Francis Queeg: bbfreak: Of course if the American's hadn't been such arrogant incompetent short sighted idiots there wouldn't have been a space race. The US had a nice advantage over the Ruskies after all. They had von Braun and his team, along with actual V-2's produced via the V-2 missile program. The first image of earth from space was taken with one of those US Army V-2's in 1946, and the first animals were shot into space in 1947 on another (fruit flies btw).

Instead the German team were given a hands off approach to helping with our rocket program, deeply distrusted, while the US military/US government was slow in making progress with actually building rockets.

Meanwhile the Russian's had to reverse engineer the V-2, which they did successfully. First R-1 successfully flew in 1947.

Anyway, I guess my point is that both nations started on a petty even footing. US Military had a bigger lead, but blew it. Then again the Apollo program might not of happened if the US had maintained its lead, and even though the Russian's were first in space it doesn't mean much now days. After all their space program fell into disarray after Sergei Korolev (AKA: Chief Designer) died, and further fell into disarray after the fall of the Soviet Union. The only reason they were able to keep the space program a float at all is because the US government helped keep their program afloat. Whatever your thoughts on the International Space Station, without it the Russian space program would of fallen apart.

Granted, its still not in good shape at the moment. They have launched anything beyond earth since 1988 successfully, so all the best to them on their next attempt and in getting all these rocket failures under control.

To be fair there was plenty of reason not to trust Braun and many of the Germans. They were pretty much amoral scum complicit in the use of slave labor.

So? He was a resource to be used like any other resource, and one we could control easily. Its not like t ...


The ends always justify the means, right?
 
2013-03-29 03:16:09 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: To be fair there was plenty of reason not to trust Braun and many of the Germans. They were pretty much amoral scum complicit in the use of slave labor.


Von Braun dreamed big and shot for the stars.  Unfortunately he sometimes missed and hit London.
 
xcv
2013-03-29 05:43:14 AM  
Wiki: In 1993 Ivan was auctioned at Sotheby's, with the winning bid coming from a foundation belonging to US businessman Ross Perot. He fetched $189,500.

Figures a post-Soviet fire-sale is how it would end up at the Smithsonian.
 
2013-03-29 08:17:28 AM  

The WindowLicker: Philip Francis Queeg: To be fair there was plenty of reason not to trust Braun and many of the Germans. They were pretty much amoral scum complicit in the use of slave labor.

Von Braun dreamed big and shot for the stars.  Unfortunately he sometimes missed and hit London.


"'Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department', says Wernher von Braun."
 
2013-03-30 12:42:40 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: bbfreak: Philip Francis Queeg: bbfreak: Of course if the American's hadn't been such arrogant incompetent short sighted idiots there wouldn't have been a space race. The US had a nice advantage over the Ruskies after all. They had von Braun and his team, along with actual V-2's produced via the V-2 missile program. The first image of earth from space was taken with one of those US Army V-2's in 1946, and the first animals were shot into space in 1947 on another (fruit flies btw).

Instead the German team were given a hands off approach to helping with our rocket program, deeply distrusted, while the US military/US government was slow in making progress with actually building rockets.

Meanwhile the Russian's had to reverse engineer the V-2, which they did successfully. First R-1 successfully flew in 1947.

Anyway, I guess my point is that both nations started on a petty even footing. US Military had a bigger lead, but blew it. Then again the Apollo program might not of happened if the US had maintained its lead, and even though the Russian's were first in space it doesn't mean much now days. After all their space program fell into disarray after Sergei Korolev (AKA: Chief Designer) died, and further fell into disarray after the fall of the Soviet Union. The only reason they were able to keep the space program a float at all is because the US government helped keep their program afloat. Whatever your thoughts on the International Space Station, without it the Russian space program would of fallen apart.

Granted, its still not in good shape at the moment. They have launched anything beyond earth since 1988 successfully, so all the best to them on their next attempt and in getting all these rocket failures under control.

To be fair there was plenty of reason not to trust Braun and many of the Germans. They were pretty much amoral scum complicit in the use of slave labor.

So? He was a resource to be used like any other resource, and one we could control easily. Its not like t ...

The ends always justify the means, right?


I don't know if the ends justify the means in that case, that is a tough question to answer. He was after all not directly involved, he turned a blind eye and did what he had to to follow his ambitions of sending humans beyond earth. My point was that the US government had no trouble pardoning Unit 731, despite those guys really being monsters. So why should they have had issue with the German's running their rocket program, especially when they were so willing to help in the first place?

So we should of hung Braun to be morally in the right? Along with the rest of his team? Blew up all the V-2 knowledge too while we're at it? After all it was used to kill people in London! So what if the Russian's will get way ahead of us, because at least we're morally in the right!
 
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