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(Fox News)   So Mexico is apparently now just a "Mad Max" movie without cool villian names or Tina Turner in a chainmail dress   (foxnews.com) divider line 198
    More: Scary, Tina Turner, Mexico, Mexican, Guerrero, Acapulco, Easter Week, town, Pacific coast  
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15608 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Mar 2013 at 2:31 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-28 01:04:32 PM
"Look, buddy, your car was upside down when we got here. And as for your Grandma, she shouldn't have mouthed off like that!"
 
2013-03-28 01:10:54 PM
I thought that subby was exaggerating.

Wow. Just wow.
 
2013-03-28 01:18:08 PM
Face it - if these guys were white Faux News & Sheriff Joe would be handing out medals & ice cream cones to these "patriots".
 
2013-03-28 01:20:15 PM
I don't know, sound like Tea Party heaven. Who needs police and prosecutors, we'll just form our own vigilante group.
 
2013-03-28 01:25:20 PM

UberDave: "Look, buddy, your car was upside down when we got here. And as for your Grandma, she shouldn't have mouthed off like that!"


Exactly the reference I was thinking of, especially with excerpts like this:

The groups say they are fighting violence, kidnappings and extortions carried out by drug cartels, but concerns have surfaced that the vigilantes may be violating the law, the human rights of people they detain, or even cooperating with criminals in some cases.

It may have well as ended saying that while graffiti is down 80%, heavy sack beatings are up a shocking 900%.  That being said, killing the vigilante's leader is the stuff of amateur hour.  They should have found ways to disillusion/scare the actual grunts of the operation instead of making them leaderless and giving them a martyr.
 
2013-03-28 01:33:48 PM

UberDave: "Look, buddy, your car was upside down when we got here. And as for your Grandma, she shouldn't have mouthed off like that!"


I'm filled with piss and vinegar! At first, I was just filled with vinegar.
 
2013-03-28 01:40:46 PM

ShawnDoc: I don't know, sound like Tea Party heaven. Who needs police and prosecutors, we'll just form our own vigilante group.


My first thought, too

/I'm sure Michele Bachmann is taking notes
 
2013-03-28 01:41:39 PM
Well.
I suppose mob justice is a KIND of justice.
 
2013-03-28 01:54:10 PM
Coming soon to a town near you, America... fu*k yeah.

But by all means, let's continue the drug war, for-profit prisons, for-profit healthcare, failing to fund the infrastructure of the country and the upward flow and concentration of wealth
 
2013-03-28 02:07:30 PM
Homer: "Ok, we've got the secret vigilante handshake.  Now we need code names.  I'll be Cue-Ball, Skinner can be Eight-Ball, Barney will be Twelve-Ball, and Moe, you can be Cue-Ball."

Moe: "You're an idiot."
 
2013-03-28 02:12:59 PM
At what point will we formally declare Mexico a failed state? Corruption is everywhere, public officials who cannot be corrupted are killed. There is no free press because journalists who actually report their civil war are killed. Over six years, estimates up to 100,000 dead, 1.6 million displaced refugees. All for an unwinnable drug war.

Can anyone tell me if whatever substance you or your friends favor has seen a jump in price or reduced availability over the last six years? People I know who use have told me no, but that might be because my proximity to the border.
 
2013-03-28 02:33:40 PM
We don't need another chalupa
We just need to find a burrito shop at home
 
2013-03-28 02:34:17 PM
This article overlooks the importance of Mexico as a major center of culture, history, and art.
 
2013-03-28 02:36:27 PM
No burning leaves without a permit!

-I have a permit!

Too late!
 
2013-03-28 02:36:57 PM
Yo soy Batman!
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-28 02:37:49 PM
Replace 'vigilantes ' with 'Freedom Fighters' everywhere in the article and it has a completely different spin.

/spin is everything.
 
2013-03-28 02:37:51 PM
violentsalvation:

Can anyone tell me if whatever substance you or your friends favor has seen a jump in price or reduced availability over the last six years? People I know who use have told me no, but that might be because my proximity to the border.

I buy American.

www.automopedia.org
 
2013-03-28 02:38:19 PM
No, they have the cool super villain names

I need someone to translate
 
2013-03-28 02:39:42 PM
In all fairness, if my local police department were just part of a large criminal gang.... hm. Farkers in Chicago, how does that work over there?
 
2013-03-28 02:40:06 PM
Which way is the prevailing wind?
I'm pretty sure we could nuke the whole country into oblivion and then waft all that glow-in-the-dark goodness Guatemala way.
 
2013-03-28 02:42:27 PM
So when does Mexico fully achieve failed state status and our immigration problem turns into a refugee problem?
 
2013-03-28 02:43:36 PM
Who runs Tierra Colorado?

embargo on!
 
2013-03-28 02:45:04 PM
I was thinking more of a vigilante leader like this:
 
2013-03-28 02:45:49 PM
¿Quién dirige bartertown?
 
2013-03-28 02:47:27 PM
Placido said vigilantes had searched a number of homes in the town and seized drugs from some. They turned over the ex-security director and police officers to state prosecutors, who agreed to investigate their alleged ties to organized crime.

Hrm.

The groups say they are fighting violence, kidnappings and extortions carried out by drug cartels, but concerns have surfaced that the vigilantes may be violating the law, the human rights of people they detain, or even cooperating with criminals in some cases.

Los PePes II: Mexican Boogaloo

violentsalvation: At what point will we formally declare Mexico a failed state? Corruption is everywhere, public officials who cannot be corrupted are killed. There is no free press because journalists who actually report their civil war are killed. Over six years, estimates up to 100,000 dead, 1.6 million displaced refugees. All for an unwinnable drug war.


I am going to Colombia in a few weeks and was reading up on Pablo Escobar and some history of the country. You think Mexico is bad- that nation should have been failed. And yet they have slowly and painfully pulled their way out (thanks to lots of American $$) and are relatively stable.

violentsalvation: Can anyone tell me if whatever substance you or your friends favor has seen a jump in price or reduced availability over the last six years? People I know who use have told me no, but that might be because my proximity to the border.


And from my reading, the prices have still remained mostly stable. But I'm talking Colombia cocaine and cannabis.

But yes, the war on drugs is a massive failure of epic proportions. I saw a headline for an article that stated something like 4 out of 5 people arrested for trafficking across the border are US citizens. Lemme look .... "Looked at another way, when the immigration status is known, 4 out of 5 busts - which may include multiple people - involve a U.S. citizen.
 
2013-03-28 02:47:46 PM

Rapmaster2000: I was thinking more of a vigilante leader like this:


Well, that was supposed to be Charles Bronson from Death Wish III and the hand cannon he used to kill half of the Bronx.
 
2013-03-28 02:48:25 PM
This would have never happened if Mexico had gun control laws.
/ ....
 
2013-03-28 02:48:52 PM
global.fncstatic.com
beretta ar 70/90 and a ruger 10/22...interesting.
 
2013-03-28 02:49:13 PM
Hundreds of armed vigilantes have taken control of a town on a major highway in the Pacific coast state of Guerrero, arresting local police officers and searching homes after a vigilante leader was killed. Several opened fire on a car of Mexican tourists headed to the beach for Easter week.

And that, my friends,is why vigilantism is a bad, BAD idea...
 
2013-03-28 02:51:07 PM

echomike23: [global.fncstatic.com image 660x371]
beretta ar 70/90 and a ruger 10/22...interesting.


You sure? That stock seems long for a 10/22
 
2013-03-28 02:51:16 PM
Less Mexico. More Tina

My Gawd that woman was hot back in the day.

Dem legs!
 
2013-03-28 02:51:32 PM

Mikey1969: Hundreds of armed vigilantes have taken control of a town on a major highway in the Pacific coast state of Guerrero, arresting local police officers and searching homes after a vigilante leader was killed. Several opened fire on a car of Mexican tourists headed to the beach for Easter week.

And that, my friends,is why vigilantism is a bad, BAD idea...


Eh, if you want to make an omelet, you have to blow up the hen house.
 
2013-03-28 02:51:33 PM

Nadie_AZ: Los PePes II: Mexican Boogaloo


You will, of course, be sending remittances for my coffee mug.
 
2013-03-28 02:52:26 PM

YoOjo: Which way is the prevailing wind?
I'm pretty sure we could nuke the whole country into oblivion and then waft all that glow-in-the-dark goodness Guatemala way.


The prevailing wind is straight into the USA. That's where our monsoons come from in summer.
 
2013-03-28 02:52:41 PM

ShawnDoc: I don't know, sound like Tea Party heaven. Who needs police and prosecutors, we'll just form our own vigilante group.


FTFA: Sensitive over their lack of ability to enforce public safety in rural areas, official have largely tolerated vigilante groups.

 I think in this case the police and prosecutors were part of the problem and the residents were unwilling to sit around an wait for government to eventually do something if ever -they got bootstrappy.

A lesson that perhaps residents of Chicago, Detroit, New Orleans  or Staten Island could benefit from.

Squatters, Looters Overrun Sandy-Ravaged Staten Island Communities
Despite Police Presence, Residents Fight To Protect What Hurricane Didn't Take


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/03/27/squatters-looters-overrun-san dy -ravaged-staten-island-communities/
 
2013-03-28 02:53:25 PM
I wish them the best of luck.  Of course if the police really were in the pocket of the cartels and this vigilantes are successfully interdicting criminal activity, they'll all be killed by cartel enforcers trucked in for the occasion.

/or the leadership of the group bought off by the cartels if the cartels aren't feeling up to a bloodbath for some odd reason
 
2013-03-28 02:53:33 PM

violentsalvation: At what point will we formally declare Mexico a failed state?


Meh.  Trivia.

Their national soccer team just tied the Pinches Gringos in Mexico City.  That makes Mexico a failed state.
 
2013-03-28 02:54:44 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: echomike23: [global.fncstatic.com image 660x371]
beretta ar 70/90 and a ruger 10/22...interesting.

You sure? That stock seems long for a 10/22


could be a ruger 44,  i think its because the rifle has an upper cover.  ruger 10/22's in the us do not normally come with a cover that goes above the barrel.  they do make them though, also the magazine is a bit thin to be 223, 556, maybe a 44.  maybe a 22.
 
2013-03-28 02:54:44 PM

Mikey1969: Hundreds of armed vigilantes have taken control of a town on a major highway in the Pacific coast state of Guerrero, arresting local police officers and searching homes after a vigilante leader was killed. Several opened fire on a car of Mexican tourists headed to the beach for Easter week.

And that, my friends,is why vigilantism is a bad, BAD idea...


Since when are the police any better?
 
2013-03-28 02:54:46 PM
Don't throw away my pic of Tina, damnit
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
Hawt
 
2013-03-28 02:55:34 PM

bsharitt: So when does Mexico fully achieve failed state status and our immigration problem turns into a refugee problem?


I got it!  I got it!

Let's have all of the illegal aliens in the US arm themselves with all of our unwanted guns to attack all of the undesireable drug dealers to take care of all of those problems at once.

/"just kidding. you thought I really had it"
 
2013-03-28 02:56:11 PM
Members of the area's self-described "community police" say more than 1,500 members of the force were stopping traffic Wednesday at improvised checkpoints in the town of Tierra Colorado, which sits on the highway connecting Mexico City to Acapulco.

1,500?  That's about two battalions.  That's not a gang, that's an effing army.
 
2013-03-28 02:56:39 PM
It wasn't just the drug war. We share the blame for allowing our corporations to close shop and move to Mexico, where they could pay the Mexicans next to nothing and toss them out on their asses when they became too old. It really is disgusting what we have helped do to their country.
 
2013-03-28 02:57:31 PM
Who runs Bordertown?
 
2013-03-28 02:58:13 PM

Mikey1969: Hundreds of armed vigilantes have taken control of a town on a major highway in the Pacific coast state of Guerrero, arresting local police officers and searching homes after a vigilante leader was killed. Several opened fire on a car of Mexican tourists headed to the beach for Easter week.

And that, my friends,is why vigilantism is a bad, BAD idea...


www.naturalnews.com

Absolutely.  Leave it to the professionals.
 
2013-03-28 02:58:19 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: YoOjo: Which way is the prevailing wind?
I'm pretty sure we could nuke the whole country into oblivion and then waft all that glow-in-the-dark goodness Guatemala way.

The prevailing wind is straight into the USA. That's where our monsoons come from in summer.


oh, we're going to need a bigger wall then.
 
2013-03-28 02:58:42 PM

Spanky3woods: Less Mexico. More Tina

My Gawd that woman was hot back in the day.

Dem legs!


Considering that she's 73? I'll STILL give her credit for being hot, although she is FINALLY starting to show her age. Tina Turner is badass, it's like she's a force of nature...
 
2013-03-28 03:00:54 PM
Looks like they want a piece of the action. Until the next group takes over...
 
2013-03-28 03:02:00 PM

spacelord321: It wasn't just the drug war. We share the blame for allowing our corporations to close shop and move to Mexico, where they could pay the Mexicans next to nothing and toss them out on their asses when they became too old. It really is disgusting what we have helped do to their country.


Can you explaoim how more industry and jobs (even if crappy ones) caused rampant violence, police corruption, warlord drug cartels and a near total descent into bloody chaos?

Not defending the companies, but destabilization is counter to their own interests too. I'm, not sure you aren't confusing correlation with causation, so could you please explain how auto factories and manufacturing facilities  caused this?

/And also who is this "we"?
 
2013-03-28 03:03:46 PM
Looks like Mexico has achieved the sort of "anti-government tyranny" situation the NRA types dream about.

BojanglesPaladin: This would have never happened if Mexico had gun control laws.
/ ....


Mexico does have stricter gun control laws.  But thanks to the relaxed gun laws in states like Arizona, Mexican cartels have US citizens purchase arms in the US and then smuggle them across the border.  The Mexican President has even publicly stated that the expiration of the US 2004 Assault Weapons Ban is directly linked to the increased violence thanks to assault weapons making their way south of the border.  A quick Google can bring up many articles on this.
 
2013-03-28 03:04:13 PM
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-03-28 03:06:21 PM
Don't get uppity, USA. You're next.
 
2013-03-28 03:06:49 PM

theurge14: Mexico does have stricter gun control laws. But thanks to the relaxed gun laws in states like Arizona, Mexican cartels have US citizens purchase arms in the US and then smuggle them across the border. The Mexican President has even publicly stated that the expiration of the US 2004 Assault Weapons Ban is directly linked to the increased violence thanks to assault weapons making their way south of the border. A quick Google can bring up many articles on this.


Yeah, but those guns are ILLEGAL!

So how do all these mexicans keep getting them?

Next you will tell me that ILLEGAL drugs are pouring across the border from Mexico into the US and Americans are buying them and our President has said that there is a direct link between that and all this violence!

(Someone should have passed a better law!)
 
2013-03-28 03:08:08 PM
I'm incredibly encouraged to see the vigilantes have access to assault rifles and black guns in tactical kit(folding stocks, hi cap mags). This really an advantage for them; or at least, having AR and AK clones at the ready lets them more ably fight back against the cartel.

Good thing those kinds of weapons weren't outlawed in Mexico, like they were in the US.
 
2013-03-28 03:09:33 PM

BojanglesPaladin: spacelord321: It wasn't just the drug war. We share the blame for allowing our corporations to close shop and move to Mexico, where they could pay the Mexicans next to nothing and toss them out on their asses when they became too old. It really is disgusting what we have helped do to their country.

Can you explaoim how more industry and jobs (even if crappy ones) caused rampant violence, police corruption, warlord drug cartels and a near total descent into bloody chaos?

Not defending the companies, but destabilization is counter to their own interests too. I'm, not sure you aren't confusing correlation with causation, so could you please explain how auto factories and manufacturing facilities  caused this?

/And also who is this "we"?


Mexico had a lot of smaller, local economies. You could go buy your goods from each other. Prices were low, wages were low. But all necessities were met. Enter Big Corporation. It wipes out the farms, the small local vendors and replaces them with One Company that pays a bit better, but then the people in these places can no longer buy the necessities they could before. So their better pay becomes useless- and worse the items they need are more expensive now. So you get movements to the cities and the border in order to find a better life.

Free Trade isn't about better wages. It is about taking advantage of lower wages in one place to create a product that sells for cheaper in the other place.
 
2013-03-28 03:10:46 PM
Speaking of Mad Max, I watched the first one while I was in the hospital Monday, talk about a bad movie. Any Australian farkers that can tell me what that ugly red station wagon he had was?
 
m00
2013-03-28 03:10:53 PM

BojanglesPaladin: This would have never happened if Mexico had gun control laws.
/ ....


Mexico actually has extremely strict gun control laws. There was a fark article of some American sentenced to jail for years because he crossed the border with an antique gun in his car. And he only crossed the border because he needed to turn around on the highway in a truck (I think the agents told him to just cross the border, turn around, and come back). .
 
2013-03-28 03:11:10 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Yeah, but those guns are ILLEGAL!

So how do all these mexicans keep getting them?

Next you will tell me that ILLEGAL drugs are pouring across the border from Mexico into the US and Americans are buying them and our President has said that there is a direct link between that and all this violence!

(Someone should have passed a better law!)


Winna winna fried chicken dinna
 
2013-03-28 03:12:49 PM
Man I was in getting a new set of tires, and I saw some documentary on a hispanic gang, I think they're called something like the 17.  Damned scary stuff.

The initiation was gnarly....you get pounded ruthlessly by the gang for 17 seconds.
 
2013-03-28 03:13:44 PM

dittybopper: Mikey1969: Hundreds of armed vigilantes have taken control of a town on a major highway in the Pacific coast state of Guerrero, arresting local police officers and searching homes after a vigilante leader was killed. Several opened fire on a car of Mexican tourists headed to the beach for Easter week.

And that, my friends,is why vigilantism is a bad, BAD idea...

[www.naturalnews.com image 400x225]

Absolutely.  Leave it to the professionals.


Still don't want a bunch of vigilantes running around. Doesn't mean that I don't think a lot of police departments need their ranks thinned a LOT and some mandatory training implemented.
 
2013-03-28 03:13:46 PM

BojanglesPaladin: So how do all these mexicans keep getting them?


Because somebody keeps making them.

/and then selling them
 
2013-03-28 03:14:36 PM
The problem in Mexico isn't that they have lax gun laws, or that those laws don't work.  It's that law enforcement in Mexico is really, REALLY spotty.
 
2013-03-28 03:15:02 PM
Google "Acapulco skinned head" to see a nice photograph or three:

Man's completely skinned head, two severed forearms arranged on each side (one hand holding his severed penis and scrotum)
The word "metra" spelled out on sidewalk with human entrails
Men's head skins draped over a sidewalk queue pole
A bunch of other human giblets strewn about

There is straight-up Aztec shiat going on south of the border
 
2013-03-28 03:19:22 PM

BojanglesPaladin: theurge14: Mexico does have stricter gun control laws. But thanks to the relaxed gun laws in states like Arizona, Mexican cartels have US citizens purchase arms in the US and then smuggle them across the border. The Mexican President has even publicly stated that the expiration of the US 2004 Assault Weapons Ban is directly linked to the increased violence thanks to assault weapons making their way south of the border. A quick Google can bring up many articles on this.

Yeah, but those guns are ILLEGAL!

So how do all these mexicans keep getting them?

Next you will tell me that ILLEGAL drugs are pouring across the border from Mexico into the US and Americans are buying them and our President has said that there is a direct link between that and all this violence!

(Someone should have passed a better law!)


Not sure what your point is here.  Laws are useless?
 
2013-03-28 03:21:27 PM
Two vatos enter, one vato leaves.
 
2013-03-28 03:23:25 PM
 

The Stealth Hippopotamus: No, they have the cool super villain names

I need someone to translate



Jefe de Jefes = Boss of Bosses
El Barbas = The Beards
El Botas Blancas = The White boots
La Muerte = The Death
El Ingeniero = The Engineer
El Mas Loco = The Craziest
El Chayo = Common Spanish term for 'rosario'. The Rosary
El Profe = The Professor or The Teacher
El Chango = The Monkey
El Tío = The Uncle
El Chapo = Shorty
El Mayo = Month of May
El Nacho = The Nacho
El Padrino = The Godfather
El Azul = The Blue
El Tres Letras = The Three Letters
El Lazca = The Turk
El Verdugo = The Executioner
El Lalo = The Most or The Excessive
El Alineador = The Aligner or The Guy Who Straightens Things Out
El Alamo = The Poplar
El Bronce = The Bronze or The Brass
El Pitirijas = The Dude
El Cuarenta = The 40
Goyo = Is often diminutive for Greg or Gregorio
Panchito = Little Francis

De nada
 
2013-03-28 03:23:46 PM
They're brown and they have oil

/what are we waiting for?
 
2013-03-28 03:23:56 PM

willfullyobscure: I'm incredibly encouraged to see the vigilantes have access to assault rifles and black guns in tactical kit(folding stocks, hi cap mags). This really an advantage for them; or at least, having AR and AK clones at the ready lets them more ably fight back against the cartel.

Good thing those kinds of weapons weren't outlawed in Mexico, like they were in the US.


I'm not too concerned about having to defend myself or family from cartels.  The benefit of living in the US
 
2013-03-28 03:24:59 PM

ShawnDoc: I don't know, sound like Tea Party heaven. Who needs police and prosecutors, we'll just form our own vigilante group.


Because the cops over there cannot be trusted.  They are criminals themselves who have been caught on video allowing gangsters to do their work.  Because the prosecutors never prosecute the right people.  Because the entire system is corrupt from top to bottom.
 
2013-03-28 03:25:26 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: ShawnDoc: I don't know, sound like Tea Party heaven. Who needs police and prosecutors, we'll just form our own vigilante group.

My first thought, too

/I'm sure Michele Bachmann is taking notes


Your first thought was stupid.
 
2013-03-28 03:25:26 PM

ShawnDoc: I don't know, sound like Tea Party heaven. Who needs police and prosecutors, we'll just form our own vigilante group.


Their justification is that the police and gov officials are on the cartel payrolls.  I don't think a situation like that has any political leaning.
 
2013-03-28 03:27:36 PM

LL316: MaudlinMutantMollusk: ShawnDoc: I don't know, sound like Tea Party heaven. Who needs police and prosecutors, we'll just form our own vigilante group.

My first thought, too

/I'm sure Michele Bachmann is taking notes

Your first thought was stupid.


Who asked you?
 
2013-03-28 03:27:59 PM

Nadie_AZ: Mexico had a lot of smaller, local economies. You could go buy your goods from each other. Prices were low, wages were low. But all necessities were met. Enter Big Corporation. It wipes out the farms, the small local vendors and replaces them with One Company that pays a bit better, but then the people in these places can no longer buy the necessities they could before. So their better pay becomes useless- and worse the items they need are more expensive now. So you get movements to the cities and the border in order to find a better life.


I can appreciate that hypothetical, but how well does it comport with reality? Mexico's economy has been a complete shiathole for decades and decades, and I vaguely recall that over the last decade or so, it has been improving a little. What you describe is a textbook anti-capitalism scenario. Not that it isn't true or doesn't happen, but I think we are better off making sure that supposition matches reality. I am not an expert on the Mexican economy, so I am open to additional information before I draw a conclusion regarding economic consequences.

I would also be interested to see median and average per capita income levels in Mexico over the last decade as well as any cost of living increase or inflation.

Lastly, you have not shown how this has CAUSED an uptick in violence at the level and type that we have seen/
 
2013-03-28 03:29:27 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: They're brown and they have oil

/what are we waiting for?


The end of lettuce picking season.
 
2013-03-28 03:32:03 PM
What you're telling me is that the "Don't go to Mexico" rule is still in effect then?
 
2013-03-28 03:33:01 PM

Dahnkster:  The Stealth Hippopotamus: No, they have the cool super villain names

I need someone to translate


Jefe de Jefes = Boss of Bosses
El Barbas = The Beards
El Botas Blancas = The White boots
La Muerte = The Death
El Ingeniero = The Engineer
El Mas Loco = The Craziest
El Chayo = Common Spanish term for 'rosario'. The Rosary
El Profe = The Professor or The Teacher
El Chango = The Monkey
El Tío = The Uncle
El Chapo = Shorty
El Mayo = Month of May
El Nacho = The Nacho
El Padrino = The Godfather
El Azul = The Blue
El Tres Letras = The Three Letters
El Lazca = The Turk
El Verdugo = The Executioner
El Lalo = The Most or The Excessive
El Alineador = The Aligner or The Guy Who Straightens Things Out
El Alamo = The Poplar
El Bronce = The Bronze or The Brass
El Pitirijas = The Dude
El Cuarenta = The 40
Goyo = Is often diminutive for Greg or Gregorio
Panchito = Little Francis

De nada


A couple of corrections:
Mayo = Nickname for Margarito
Nacho = Nickname for Ignacio
Lalo = Nickname for Eduardo
Panchito = Little Frank

De nada otra vez
 
2013-03-28 03:33:35 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: ShawnDoc: I don't know, sound like Tea Party heaven. Who needs police and prosecutors, we'll just form our own vigilante group.

My first thought, too

/I'm sure Michele Bachmann is taking notes


This just in... neither of you tools have any idea what the Tea Party is all about.

But if you're looking for a bunch of violent thugs fighting with the cops? Gee, does that make me think of the Tea Party... or OWS? Hrm. Let me check the arrest records at the events...
 
2013-03-28 03:33:47 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: No, they have the cool super villain names

I need someone to translate


This one always made me laugh, "La Barbie."  The guy is called La Barbie...not so cool or scary for that matter.
 
2013-03-28 03:34:40 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Nadie_AZ: Mexico had a lot of smaller, local economies. You could go buy your goods from each other. Prices were low, wages were low. But all necessities were met. Enter Big Corporation. It wipes out the farms, the small local vendors and replaces them with One Company that pays a bit better, but then the people in these places can no longer buy the necessities they could before. So their better pay becomes useless- and worse the items they need are more expensive now. So you get movements to the cities and the border in order to find a better life.

I can appreciate that hypothetical, but how well does it comport with reality? Mexico's economy has been a complete shiathole for decades and decades, and I vaguely recall that over the last decade or so, it has been improving a little. What you describe is a textbook anti-capitalism scenario. Not that it isn't true or doesn't happen, but I think we are better off making sure that supposition matches reality. I am not an expert on the Mexican economy, so I am open to additional information before I draw a conclusion regarding economic consequences.

I would also be interested to see median and average per capita income levels in Mexico over the last decade as well as any cost of living increase or inflation.

Lastly, you have not shown how this has CAUSED an uptick in violence at the level and type that we have seen/


Who cares? It doesn't matter the cause or what effect it has - it is just another opportunity for farkers to blame Republicans/Democrats/Socialists/Fundies/Pinko/Commies/Hipsters. It's a never ending stream of blame that will never solve anything and doesn't serve any purpose other than to let some of the most outspoken Farkers pontificate to each other in the goal to maybe one day hold dominion over the entire shallow, pointless conversation.
 
2013-03-28 03:34:49 PM

Dahnkster: El Alineador = The Aligner or The Guy Who Straightens Things Out


Wouldn't this be more like "The Fixer"?
 
2013-03-28 03:36:44 PM

violentsalvation: At what point will we formally declare Mexico a failed state? Corruption is everywhere, public officials who cannot be corrupted are killed. There is no free press because journalists who actually report their civil war are killed. Over six years, estimates up to 100,000 dead, 1.6 million displaced refugees. All for an unwinnable drug war.

Can anyone tell me if whatever substance you or your friends favor has seen a jump in price or reduced availability over the last six years? People I know who use have told me no, but that might be because my proximity to the border.


The United States has a bad habit of funding those creating civil wars:  Mexico, Syria, Egypt, Libya.
 
2013-03-28 03:37:48 PM

This text is now purple: Dahnkster: El Alineador = The Aligner or The Guy Who Straightens Things Out

Wouldn't this be more like "The Fixer"?


No, this would be the fixer:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2yuDM3tyHI
 
2013-03-28 03:38:56 PM
lasnoticiasmexico.com
We need him now more than ever...
 
2013-03-28 03:40:25 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Nadie_AZ: Mexico had a lot of smaller, local economies. You could go buy your goods from each other. Prices were low, wages were low. But all necessities were met. Enter Big Corporation. It wipes out the farms, the small local vendors and replaces them with One Company that pays a bit better, but then the people in these places can no longer buy the necessities they could before. So their better pay becomes useless- and worse the items they need are more expensive now. So you get movements to the cities and the border in order to find a better life.

I can appreciate that hypothetical, but how well does it comport with reality? Mexico's economy has been a complete shiathole for decades and decades, and I vaguely recall that over the last decade or so, it has been improving a little. What you describe is a textbook anti-capitalism scenario. Not that it isn't true or doesn't happen, but I think we are better off making sure that supposition matches reality. I am not an expert on the Mexican economy, so I am open to additional information before I draw a conclusion regarding economic consequences.

I would also be interested to see median and average per capita income levels in Mexico over the last decade as well as any cost of living increase or inflation.

Lastly, you have not shown how this has CAUSED an uptick in violence at the level and type that we have seen/


Well, if I can no longer feed my family, what am I going to do? Look for an opportunity to do so. However, I think that has led to people moving to the cities (and creating those huge shanty like towns) or going North. I know drug cartels attract young adult men because they figure they'd rather have a few years of living a good life versus living a long life of crushing poverty.

As for an uptick in violence- didn't that coincide with the previous President's decision to use force against the cartels?

Mexico's history is like others in Latin America- you've got a caste type system in place with those in power near the top, a small middle class and lots of poor people.
 
2013-03-28 03:40:51 PM

ristst: Man I was in getting a new set of tires, and I saw some documentary on a hispanic gang, I think they're called something like the 17.  Damned scary stuff.

The initiation was gnarly....you get pounded ruthlessly by the gang for 17 seconds.


Longer than you lasted with subby's mom.

\I keed
 
2013-03-28 03:41:11 PM
I know conservatives hate to hear this kind of thing, but examples like this from Mexico and other shiatholes around the world demonstrate why a strong centralized government is vital for protecting people's freedom. Not TOO strong, mind you, but right there in the sweet spot like a lot of western nations have found.

Or we could say screw the government and just arm everyone to the teeth so they can "protect themselves," in which case you've essentially got Somalia.
 
2013-03-28 03:41:38 PM

Carn: What you're telling me is that the "Don't go to Mexico" rule is still in effect then?


Especially after the seven dead men showed up today sitting on plastic chairs.  How thoughtful of the killers.
 
2013-03-28 03:42:37 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I need someone to translate


I don't know much Spanish, but most of them seem rather mundane.

dl.dropbox.com

/Granted they seem more intimidating when the guy is posing next to a half dozen severed heads.
 
2013-03-28 03:44:30 PM
t2.gstatic.com
"Yo soy el coche fantástico! Soy una inyección de combustible suicidio máquina!"
 
2013-03-28 03:46:12 PM

fireclown: Members of the area's self-described "community police" say more than 1,500 members of the force were stopping traffic Wednesday at improvised checkpoints in the town of Tierra Colorado, which sits on the highway connecting Mexico City to Acapulco.

1,500?  That's about two battalions.  That's not a gang, that's an effing army.


Or about 1 and half Marine Rifle Battalions but hwo is counting.
 
2013-03-28 03:48:25 PM

ThePastafarian: This text is now purple: Dahnkster: El Alineador = The Aligner or The Guy Who Straightens Things Out

Wouldn't this be more like "The Fixer"?

No, this would be the fixer:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2yuDM3tyHI


japanesenostalgiccar.com
 
2013-03-28 03:48:28 PM

The Dog Ate My Homework: I know conservatives hate to hear this kind of thing, but examples like this from Mexico and other shiatholes around the world demonstrate why a strong centralized government is vital for protecting people's freedom. Not TOO strong, mind you, but right there in the sweet spot like a lot of western nations have found.

Or we could say screw the government and just arm everyone to the teeth so they can "protect themselves," in which case you've essentially got Somalia.


I don't think anyone reasonable is so much against a central government that they think the government shouldn't be able to move against bands of drug lords murdering their way across the country.

What you present is a false choice. Either stronger government powers, or lawless wandering vigilante brigades.
 
2013-03-28 03:48:32 PM

Mikey1969: Hundreds of armed vigilantes have taken control of a town on a major highway in the Pacific coast state of Guerrero, arresting local police officers and searching homes after a vigilante leader was killed. Several opened fire on a car of Mexican tourists headed to the beach for Easter week.

And that, my friends,is why vigilantism is a bad, BAD idea...


Except government has admitted it is unable to do its job so what is the alternative?
 
2013-03-28 03:49:12 PM
TFA was way too serious, so...

The Mexican Maid
 
The Mexican maid asked for a pay increase.
The wife was very upset about this and decided to talk to her about the raise.
She asked, "Now Maria, why do you want a pay increase?"
Maria: "Well, Señora, there are tree reasons why I wanna increaze. The first is that I iron betterthan you."
Wife: "Who said you iron better than me?"
Maria: "Jor huzban he say so."
Wife: "Oh yeah?"
Maria: "The second reason eez that I am a better cook than you."
Wife: "Nonsense, who said you were a better cook than me?"
Maria: "Jor hozban did"
Wife increasingly agitated: "Oh he did, did he?"
Maria: "The third reason is that I am better at sex than you in the bed."
Wife, really boiling now and through gritted teeth asks, "And did my husband say that as well?"
Maria: "No Señora The gardener did."
.
.
Wife: "So how much do you want?"


/De nada.
 
2013-03-28 03:49:40 PM

way south: /Granted they seem more intimidating when the guy is posing next to a half dozen severed heads.


Half a dozen severed heads will add gravitas to anyone.
 
2013-03-28 03:54:12 PM

Wrath of Heaven: ThePastafarian: This text is now purple: Dahnkster: El Alineador = The Aligner or The Guy Who Straightens Things Out

Wouldn't this be more like "The Fixer"?

No, this would be the fixer:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2yuDM3tyHI

[japanesenostalgiccar.com image 850x361]


I bow to you, sir.  Well done.
 
2013-03-28 03:54:37 PM

dabbletech: /De nada.


I enjoyed that way too much.
 
2013-03-28 04:00:22 PM

orclover: [t2.gstatic.com image 263x192]
"Yo soy el coche fantástico! Soy una inyección de combustible suicidio máquina!"


lol, first thing i though of when i read coche fantastico
www.oldblokesonbikes.co.uk

i always get a kick out of what shows are called when translated to spanish

a-team= los magnificos
little house on the prarie = la familia ingalls
airwolf = lobo del aire
star trek = viaje a las estrellas
 
2013-03-28 04:02:39 PM

echomike23: airwolf = lobo del aire


Honestly, that just sounds cool to me.
 
2013-03-28 04:02:40 PM

hasty ambush: Mikey1969: Hundreds of armed vigilantes have taken control of a town on a major highway in the Pacific coast state of Guerrero, arresting local police officers and searching homes after a vigilante leader was killed. Several opened fire on a car of Mexican tourists headed to the beach for Easter week.

And that, my friends,is why vigilantism is a bad, BAD idea...

Except government has admitted it is unable to do its job so what is the alternative?


I don't know, but I don't think it's civilians with no training that can't distinguish between turistas and Cartel members...
 
2013-03-28 04:03:21 PM

theurge14: Looks like Mexico has achieved the sort of "anti-government tyranny" situation the NRA types dream about.

BojanglesPaladin: This would have never happened if Mexico had gun control laws.
/ ....

Mexico does have stricter gun control laws.  But thanks to the relaxed gun laws in states like Arizona, Mexican cartels have US citizens purchase arms in the US and then smuggle them across the border.  The Mexican President has even publicly stated that the expiration of the US 2004 Assault Weapons Ban is directly linked to the increased violence thanks to assault weapons making their way south of the border.  A quick Google can bring up many articles on this.


Then the Mexican President is an idiot. The 2004 Assault Weapon Ban didn't actually ban the sale of semi-auto rifles or high cap mags. All of that shiat was available then. that's when i bought my AK.

But really, who needs American straw purchasers when the american gov't  seems fine with shiping a couple thousand weapons into Mexico. Just call Holder, he got you.
 
2013-03-28 04:03:23 PM

Caffandtranqs: The Stealth Hippopotamus: No, they have the cool super villain names

I need someone to translate

This one always made me laugh, "La Barbie."  The guy is called La Barbie...not so cool or scary for that matter.


www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk
 
2013-03-28 04:04:12 PM
^hot, obv
 
2013-03-28 04:04:48 PM
Yay for utter madness borne from the War on Drugs!
 
2013-03-28 04:08:49 PM

theurge14: Mexico does have stricter gun control laws.  But thanks to the relaxed gun laws in states like Arizona, Mexican cartels have US citizens purchase arms in the US and then smuggle them across the border.  The Mexican President has even publicly stated that the expiration of the US 2004 Assault Weapons Ban is directly linked to the increased violence thanks to assault weapons making their way south of the border.  A quick Google can bring up many articles on this.


And it's a butt-load of crap.

At most, 36% of the guns seized in Mexico can be traced to the US, and just because they can be traced to the US doesn't mean that they were sold *COMMERCIALLY* here:  Some could well be guns that were manufactured here, sold overseas, and ultimately found their way to Mexico.

Check out pictures of the weaponry seized:   Often, you'll see actual military hardware (grenades, actual for-real machine guns) that isn't commonly available for retail sale in the US.
 
2013-03-28 04:13:19 PM
What I am curious about regarding Mexico is how much government money is spent on the general welfare of the public like health and schools?  For example from the revenues raised from Mexico's oil insdustry and the American factories which have relocated there.  Does a lot of the revenue go to the public sector for stuff like health, education, and a form of a "safety net"; or is most of it kept in the private sector and is supposed to "trickle down" through "capitalism", in order to accomplish what are seen as "general welfare" needs?
 
2013-03-28 04:14:00 PM

Mikey1969: hasty ambush: Mikey1969: Hundreds of armed vigilantes have taken control of a town on a major highway in the Pacific coast state of Guerrero, arresting local police officers and searching homes after a vigilante leader was killed. Several opened fire on a car of Mexican tourists headed to the beach for Easter week.

And that, my friends,is why vigilantism is a bad, BAD idea...

Except government has admitted it is unable to do its job so what is the alternative?

I don't know, but I don't think it's civilians with no training that can't distinguish between turistas and Cartel members...


The alternative is to lay down arms and leave their fates in the hands of the cartel itself.
There aren't words to describe how bad of an option that is after you've stood against them.

/The vigilantes are balls deep till the government unfarks itself and sends backup.
/That may never happen.
 
2013-03-28 04:14:44 PM

SithLord: ristst: Man I was in getting a new set of tires, and I saw some documentary on a hispanic gang, I think they're called something like the 17.  Damned scary stuff.

The initiation was gnarly....you get pounded ruthlessly by the gang for 17 seconds.

Longer than you lasted with subby's mom.

\I keed


Now that's a dirty rumor...and it's completely untrue.  I'll have you know I lasted a full 47 seconds.

/my personal best
//subby's mom isn't exactly a looker, so that works kinda like "thinking of baseball"
///still needed bowl of Wheaties afterwards
 
2013-03-28 04:15:17 PM

dittybopper: At most, 36% of the guns seized in Mexico can be traced to the US, and just because they can be traced to the US doesn't mean that they were sold *COMMERCIALLY* here: Some could well be guns that were manufactured here, sold overseas, and ultimately found their way to Mexico.


Correct not sold commercially, often person to person but regardless the trafficking in weapons is there.

dittybopper: Check out pictures of the weaponry seized: Often, you'll see actual military hardware (grenades, actual for-real machine guns) that isn't commonly available for retail sale in the US.


Yes, often weapons manufactured here that are then shipped legally through legal supply chains to other countries where they are then either modified (semi into auto, etc..) and any ability to trace removed. They are then trafficked to the various hot spots around the world including places like Mexico.

We make A LOT of weapons that end up in very bad places and the channels that this happens are many and wide. To ignore that would be putting your head in the sand.

Now, can we theoretically do anything about it? Well that's a good question and worth a debate.
 
2013-03-28 04:16:15 PM
i.ytimg.com
I am El Nino, which is Spanish for......the Nino....
 
2013-03-28 04:16:18 PM

sodomizer: Don't get uppity, USA. You're next.


Prove it.
 
2013-03-28 04:16:24 PM
Sólo a pie.
www.craveonline.com

 
2013-03-28 04:17:47 PM

Dahnkster: The Stealth Hippopotamus: No, they have the cool super villain names

I need someone to translate


Jefe de Jefes = Boss of Bosses
El Barbas = The Beards
El Botas Blancas = The White boots
La Muerte = The Death
El Ingeniero = The Engineer
El Mas Loco = The Craziest
El Chayo = Common Spanish term for 'rosario'. The Rosary
El Profe = The Professor or The Teacher
El Chango = The Monkey
El Tío = The Uncle
El Chapo = Shorty
El Mayo = Month of May
El Nacho = The Nacho
El Padrino = The Godfather
El Azul = The Blue
El Tres Letras = The Three Letters
El Lazca = The Turk
El Verdugo = The Executioner
El Lalo = The Most or The Excessive
El Alineador = The Aligner or The Guy Who Straightens Things Out
El Alamo = The Poplar
El Bronce = The Bronze or The Brass
El Pitirijas = The Dude
El Cuarenta = The 40
Goyo = Is often diminutive for Greg or Gregorio
Panchito = Little Francis

De nada


ooh ooh, I have one:
El Nino = The Nino
 
2013-03-28 04:26:10 PM

ShawnDoc: I don't know, sound like Tea Party heaven. Who needs police and prosecutors, we'll just form our own vigilante group.

The ignorance is strong in this one.
 
2013-03-28 04:27:03 PM

BojanglesPaladin: This would have never happened if Mexico had gun control laws.
/ ....


It is kinda funny now the gun grabbers don't usually say a peep about the 50000 people died in "gun free" Mexico.  (Isn't that about the same that died in 10 years of the Iraqi war)
What they have south of the boarder is an insurrection.  Basically the government can no longer project their power (enforce their laws) in the north half of the country.  When the last Mexican president was elected I knew he would lose the war because he was treating it like a police action.  The only way to win an insurrection is to do two things to the local civilians. 1: gain their trust, 2: break their fear of the bad guys.  Last time I was in Mexico the locals scattered when the federals drove by.  Strike one.  And the feds can't provide security everywhere so without a gun in normal civilian hands there is no way for them to protect themselves... Strike two, the government lost.  Now the only way for the civilians to gain some security is revolution.   Those are never easy or rarely bloodless.  Locally this will be reported as vigilantes.  Personally, I hope it gains momentum, spreads to a larger area and they win (not likely but it is nice to imagine them winning against all odds)

echomike23: beretta ar 70/90 and a ruger 10/22...interesting.

You fight a war with the weapons you have, not the ones you would like to have.
Besides, a .22 does have good penetration, you just have to be careful with your shot placement  :-)
 
2013-03-28 04:29:21 PM

Death Whisper: ShawnDoc: I don't know, sound like Tea Party heaven. Who needs police and prosecutors, we'll just form our own vigilante group.
The ignorance is strong in this one.


Given that teabaggers have actually done just that, not so ignorant as one thinks. At least two or three teabagger vigilante groups, like the Minutemen, "assisting" with border patrol.
 
2013-03-28 04:30:31 PM
Lollipop165: I thought that subby was exaggerating.

Um, where were you a few weeks ago when they put about a half dozen bodies in chairs and put signs up on them?

Or when they were having a gun battle with police while jumping from rooftop to rooftop?
 
2013-03-28 04:34:05 PM
Might I suggest Mercenaries


www.cyfraplus.pl

cdn.shopify.com
www.forum-auto.com
4.bp.blogspot.com
www.mexat.com
 
2013-03-28 04:34:57 PM
"Can you swing a sack of knobs?"
 
2013-03-28 04:35:04 PM

Death Whisper: ShawnDoc: I don't know, sound like Tea Party heaven. Who needs police and prosecutors, we'll just form our own vigilante group.
The ignorance is strong in this one.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-28 04:36:36 PM
Silent But Deadly:
ooh ooh, I have one:
El Nino = The Nino


Welcome to the party, pal.
 
2013-03-28 04:37:45 PM

BojanglesPaladin: spacelord321: It wasn't just the drug war. We share the blame for allowing our corporations to close shop and move to Mexico, where they could pay the Mexicans next to nothing and toss them out on their asses when they became too old. It really is disgusting what we have helped do to their country.

Can you explaoim how more industry and jobs (even if crappy ones) caused rampant violence, police corruption, warlord drug cartels and a near total descent into bloody chaos?

Not defending the companies, but destabilization is counter to their own interests too. I'm, not sure you aren't confusing correlation with causation, so could you please explain how auto factories and manufacturing facilities  caused this?

/And also who is this "we"?


Perhaps my emphasis came off as being focused on the wrong part. The jobs would have been great if it actually would have given them a future. Instead they were worked in slave like conditions, and tossed out on their asses when they were in their 40s, with no compensation, their best years behind them, and nothing saved. As the subsequent generation of youths witnessed this, the cartels became the obvious choice. Jobs are good, when the wealth created reaches the people. This was not the case for a large majority of them.

Over generalizations must be taken with a grain of salt, of course, but I'm not writing a book just making a point that the drug war is not the only factor.
 
2013-03-28 04:38:12 PM

dittybopper: Check out pictures of the weaponry seized:


Also our State Department gives the Mexican military and police forces military weapons "to help fight the Drug Cartel" but a lot of these weapons get set to local cops that are in the pay of the local drug cartel.  Oops.
 
2013-03-28 04:39:31 PM

hasty ambush: Might I suggest Mercenaries


[www.cyfraplus.pl image 800x520]

[cdn.shopify.com image 480x360]
[www.forum-auto.com image 640x480]
[4.bp.blogspot.com image 400x208]
[www.mexat.com image 640x480]


Sounds like these guys would be more their speed:
www.imfdb.org
"Sew, very old woman! Sew like the wind!
 
2013-03-28 04:39:59 PM

oldfarthenry: Face it - if these guys were white Faux News & Sheriff Joe would be handing out medals & ice cream cones to these "patriots".


You're a farkin idiot
 
2013-03-28 04:40:28 PM

Nadie_AZ: BojanglesPaladin: spacelord321: It wasn't just the drug war. We share the blame for allowing our corporations to close shop and move to Mexico, where they could pay the Mexicans next to nothing and toss them out on their asses when they became too old. It really is disgusting what we have helped do to their country.

Can you explaoim how more industry and jobs (even if crappy ones) caused rampant violence, police corruption, warlord drug cartels and a near total descent into bloody chaos?

Not defending the companies, but destabilization is counter to their own interests too. I'm, not sure you aren't confusing correlation with causation, so could you please explain how auto factories and manufacturing facilities  caused this?

/And also who is this "we"?

Mexico had a lot of smaller, local economies. You could go buy your goods from each other. Prices were low, wages were low. But all necessities were met. Enter Big Corporation. It wipes out the farms, the small local vendors and replaces them with One Company that pays a bit better, but then the people in these places can no longer buy the necessities they could before. So their better pay becomes useless- and worse the items they need are more expensive now. So you get movements to the cities and the border in order to find a better life.

Free Trade isn't about better wages. It is about taking advantage of lower wages in one place to create a product that sells for cheaper in the other place.


Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
2013-03-28 04:41:58 PM

Mikey1969: dittybopper: Mikey1969: Hundreds of armed vigilantes have taken control of a town on a major highway in the Pacific coast state of Guerrero, arresting local police officers and searching homes after a vigilante leader was killed. Several opened fire on a car of Mexican tourists headed to the beach for Easter week.

And that, my friends,is why vigilantism is a bad, BAD idea...

[www.naturalnews.com image 400x225]

Absolutely.  Leave it to the professionals.

Still don't want a bunch of vigilantes running around. Doesn't mean that I don't think a lot of police departments need their ranks thinned a LOT and some mandatory training implemented.


You would if you lived in Mexico.
 
2013-03-28 04:43:01 PM

Calmamity: Coming soon to a town near you, America... fu*k yeah.

But by all means, let's continue the drug war, for-profit prisons, for-profit healthcare, failing to fund the infrastructure of the country and the upward flow and concentration of wealth


9 posts in. That's an eternity for the farkwits at Fark by comparison. Of COURSE it's America's fault! And these people would likely be mild-mannered farmers or artists if it wasn't for our EEEEEVIL drug war!

Newsflash: this is the behavior that keeping drugs outlawed PREVENTS, not causes.
 
2013-03-28 04:46:45 PM

Treygreen13: BojanglesPaladin: Nadie_AZ: Mexico had a lot of smaller, local economies. You could go buy your goods from each other. Prices were low, wages were low. But all necessities were met. Enter Big Corporation. It wipes out the farms, the small local vendors and replaces them with One Company that pays a bit better, but then the people in these places can no longer buy the necessities they could before. So their better pay becomes useless- and worse the items they need are more expensive now. So you get movements to the cities and the border in order to find a better life.

I can appreciate that hypothetical, but how well does it comport with reality? Mexico's economy has been a complete shiathole for decades and decades, and I vaguely recall that over the last decade or so, it has been improving a little. What you describe is a textbook anti-capitalism scenario. Not that it isn't true or doesn't happen, but I think we are better off making sure that supposition matches reality. I am not an expert on the Mexican economy, so I am open to additional information before I draw a conclusion regarding economic consequences.

I would also be interested to see median and average per capita income levels in Mexico over the last decade as well as any cost of living increase or inflation.

Lastly, you have not shown how this has CAUSED an uptick in violence at the level and type that we have seen/

Who cares? It doesn't matter the cause or what effect it has - it is just another opportunity for farkers to blame Republicans/Democrats/Socialists/Fundies/Pinko/Commies/Hipsters. It's a never ending stream of blame that will never solve anything and doesn't serve any purpose other than to let some of the most outspoken Farkers pontificate to each other in the goal to maybe one day hold dominion over the entire shallow, pointless conversation.


Such an intelligent contribution yourself.

Pot, meet kettle.
 
2013-03-28 04:46:48 PM

elgrancerdo: A couple of corrections:
Mayo = Nickname for Margarito
Nacho = Nickname for Ignacio
Lalo = Nickname for Eduardo
Panchito = Little Frank

De nada otra vez


Gracias. Yo soy el gringo.
 
2013-03-28 04:56:00 PM

spacelord321: Treygreen13: BojanglesPaladin: Nadie_AZ: Mexico had a lot of smaller, local economies. You could go buy your goods from each other. Prices were low, wages were low. But all necessities were met. Enter Big Corporation. It wipes out the farms, the small local vendors and replaces them with One Company that pays a bit better, but then the people in these places can no longer buy the necessities they could before. So their better pay becomes useless- and worse the items they need are more expensive now. So you get movements to the cities and the border in order to find a better life.

I can appreciate that hypothetical, but how well does it comport with reality? Mexico's economy has been a complete shiathole for decades and decades, and I vaguely recall that over the last decade or so, it has been improving a little. What you describe is a textbook anti-capitalism scenario. Not that it isn't true or doesn't happen, but I think we are better off making sure that supposition matches reality. I am not an expert on the Mexican economy, so I am open to additional information before I draw a conclusion regarding economic consequences.

I would also be interested to see median and average per capita income levels in Mexico over the last decade as well as any cost of living increase or inflation.

Lastly, you have not shown how this has CAUSED an uptick in violence at the level and type that we have seen/

Who cares? It doesn't matter the cause or what effect it has - it is just another opportunity for farkers to blame Republicans/Democrats/Socialists/Fundies/Pinko/Commies/Hipsters. It's a never ending stream of blame that will never solve anything and doesn't serve any purpose other than to let some of the most outspoken Farkers pontificate to each other in the goal to maybe one day hold dominion over the entire shallow, pointless conversation.

Such an intelligent contribution yourself.

Pot, meet kettle.


There are vigilantes pulling people out of cars and shooting tourists, drug cartels beheading people and leaving their body parts in the market as a message, and our neighbor to the south is embroiled in a bloody internal struggle. But the Fark thread is immediately "Well if the Republicans/Democrats/TeaParty/Mormons..."

Seriously, it's farked up how easily you morons immediately turn to your political affiliations the second you read anything. Like there's some sort of butthurt lottery that you'll win if you're the most offended by your opposing interest. Get the fark over yourselves.

/rant
 
2013-03-28 04:59:17 PM

BojanglesPaladin: I am not an expert on the Mexican economy,


Nor am I but my wife has family in Nogales.  Before about 2007 they where doing ok.   Most people had jobs at the factories or stores that catered to American tourists.  Then three things happened at the same time;
1:  Americans needed a passport to cross.  Nobody is going to spend $100 and wait weeks to get a stupid passport just to buy crappy Chinese trinkets and cheap booze.  Thus Tourism Collapsed (I counted on one street, 17 out of 20 of the old curio shops where replaced or just shut down and abandoned.)
2:  The American Economy went into a tail spin so the factories started to "contract" their employees.  That is, they basically had to reapply for their job ever paycheck. They also halved their time.  Note, one cousin made about $50 a week before and it dropped to about $30.  Don't talk to me about minimum wage until you feed your wife and kid on $30 a week.
3:  American started making all our corn into Ethanol.  This trickled down to raise corn tortilla prices about double. Locals eats corn tortillas in every meal.
 
2013-03-28 05:11:26 PM
Amnesty Now!
 
2013-03-28 05:13:35 PM
Good lord there are a lot of stupid, self-righteous, self-centered, self-loathing people in this thread.

Sheep
- believes Mexican cartels would find themselves helplessly disarmed if Americans lost their gun rights.
- believes these "vigilantes" (I'd just call them people defending their town because no one else will) should surrender their guns to their local honest police department.
- believes Americans don't need the 2A because the current level of corruption is ok and will stay the same into perpetuity.
- wants drugs to be legalized so they can smoke all the pot and coke they want; believes giving big pharma the green light to sell recreational drugs is a good idea
- oddly enough, believes big tobacco is evil
- believes that "4/5 smugglers are american citizens" BS. that's because those folks can't exactly flee into Mexico, can they? nor can the Border patrol go running into Mexico to nab the teams of smugglers on the other side of the fence. not to mention they are smuggling IN, not out...
 
2013-03-28 05:13:37 PM
No cool villain names, but also no bondage/bezerker from Beastmaster/gay punk rock football slave outfits either.

ts1.mm.bing.net
 
2013-03-28 05:14:43 PM

Caffandtranqs: Because the cops over there cannot be trusted.  They are criminals themselves who have been caught on video allowing gangsters to do their work.  Because the prosecutors never prosecute the right people.  Because the entire system is corrupt from top to bottom.


And this is different from the USA how, exactly?  Other than the lack of video tape, because our cops are so corrupt that they've actually made it illegal to expose their corruption on film?
 
2013-03-28 05:14:50 PM

Primum: Google "Acapulco skinned head" to see a nice photograph or three:

Man's completely skinned head, two severed forearms arranged on each side (one hand holding his severed penis and scrotum)
The word "metra" spelled out on sidewalk with human entrails
Men's head skins draped over a sidewalk queue pole
A bunch of other human giblets strewn about

There is straight-up Aztec shiat going on south of the border


that's nothing.... back in the day of the Aztecs and all the other Indian tribes, when one group captures another or when they raid rival villages etc they would force the husband/father to watch as the raiding party violently rape his wife and daughter...then proceed to force the wife and kids to watch as they torture him in ways we can't even imagine. As if that is not bad enough they would finally cut the dude open while he is still alive and have his family eat his organs etc!!!

After that they are taken back to the villages and force to become slaves for the rest of their short life.

What we are seeing today is just modern interpretation of the same stuff by the descendants of these tribes..
 
2013-03-28 05:15:05 PM
It's too bad we spent trillions destroying Iraq when we could have spent that building up Mexico. The benefits for the United States would have been extraordinary.
 
2013-03-28 05:15:18 PM

duenor: Sheep
- believes Mexican cartels would find themselves helplessly disarmed if Americans lost their gun rights.


What do people believe?
 
2013-03-28 05:16:22 PM
So howcome everyone who's all hot to invade Best Korea because of all their problems isn't so anxious to invade Mexico because of same?
 
2013-03-28 05:18:22 PM

Gyrfalcon: So howcome everyone who's all hot to invade Best Korea because of all their problems isn't so anxious to invade Mexico because of same?


I don't get the fixation of 'over there' when there is plenty of crap over here that needs tending to.
 
2013-03-28 05:18:24 PM
Hey, you want to know what would really knock the cartels down a peg?

Legalization.
 
2013-03-28 05:20:24 PM

NephilimNexus: Caffandtranqs: Because the cops over there cannot be trusted.  They are criminals themselves who have been caught on video allowing gangsters to do their work.  Because the prosecutors never prosecute the right people.  Because the entire system is corrupt from top to bottom.

And this is different from the USA how, exactly?  Other than the lack of video tape, because our cops are so corrupt that they've actually made it illegal to expose their corruption on film?


No, not the same, dude.  You have not spent much time in Mexico, have you?  When I did drugs back in the '90s I spent lots of time in Juarez.  Just trust me, it is definitely not the same.
 
2013-03-28 05:21:21 PM

duenor: Good lord there are a lot of stupid, self-righteous, self-centered, self-loathing people in this thread.

Sheep
- believes Mexican cartels would find themselves helplessly disarmed if Americans lost their gun rights.
- believes these "vigilantes" (I'd just call them people defending their town because no one else will) should surrender their guns to their local honest police department.
- believes Americans don't need the 2A because the current level of corruption is ok and will stay the same into perpetuity.
- wants drugs to be legalized so they can smoke all the pot and coke they want; believes giving big pharma the green light to sell recreational drugs is a good idea
- oddly enough, believes big tobacco is evil
- believes that "4/5 smugglers are american citizens" BS. that's because those folks can't exactly flee into Mexico, can they? nor can the Border patrol go running into Mexico to nab the teams of smugglers on the other side of the fence. not to mention they are smuggling IN, not out...


I love a good strawman argument as much as the next guy, but you just started fabricating entire threads just now. Tone that imagination down before you hurt yourself.
 
2013-03-28 05:30:14 PM

Hickory-smoked: Hey, you want to know what would really knock the cartels down a peg?

Legalization.


You think the cartels would just... stop?
 
2013-03-28 05:32:09 PM

Gyrfalcon: So howcome everyone who's all hot to invade Best Korea because of all their problems isn't so anxious to invade Mexico because of same?



Starting a "police action" in Mexico would be the biggest clusterfark this country has ever embarked on. You have all the asymmetrical warfare we've come to love from Iraq and Afghanistan with the added bonus that 7 million undocumented, potential enemy combatants already live in our country. There would be violence in every city in America due to it. Plus, America would get a front row seat to the horrors of war for the first time since the civil war. As a matter of fact, it might as well by the catalyst for a new civil war in America. Can you imagine our civil liberties remaining intact? Can you imagine the war being fought without horrifying atrocities on American citizens by both sides?


Without hyperbole, it could literally unravel our society.
 
2013-03-28 05:33:08 PM
what do you mean, now?
 
2013-03-28 05:35:21 PM

Magnanimous_J: Gyrfalcon: So howcome everyone who's all hot to invade Best Korea because of all their problems isn't so anxious to invade Mexico because of same?


Starting a "police action" in Mexico would be the biggest clusterfark this country has ever embarked on. You have all the asymmetrical warfare we've come to love from Iraq and Afghanistan with the added bonus that 7 million undocumented, potential enemy combatants already live in our country. There would be violence in every city in America due to it. Plus, America would get a front row seat to the horrors of war for the first time since the civil war. As a matter of fact, it might as well by the catalyst for a new civil war in America. Can you imagine our civil liberties remaining intact? Can you imagine the war being fought without horrifying atrocities on American citizens by both sides?


Without hyperbole, it could literally unravel our society.


Plus a group of angry North Koreans can't hop in a truck and take a short ride to Laredo to start killing and maiming people.

/not that it makes a war with North Korea a good idea
//but it's much easier to go bomb the crap out of people who can't really get to your population centers in an Astro van
 
2013-03-28 05:36:56 PM

randomjsa: MaudlinMutantMollusk: ShawnDoc: I don't know, sound like Tea Party heaven. Who needs police and prosecutors, we'll just form our own vigilante group.

My first thought, too

/I'm sure Michele Bachmann is taking notes

This just in... neither of you tools have any idea what the Tea Party is all about.

But if you're looking for a bunch of violent thugs fighting with the cops? Gee, does that make me think of the Tea Party... or OWS? Hrm. Let me check the arrest records at the events...


If you aren't arrested at a protest, you didn't care enough.

/raised by former hippy protestors-- Civil Rights era
//if it's not civil disobedience your "free speech" doesn't make a difference
///you know you're making a difference when the feds infiltrate your group and try to get you to kill other federal agents
////rebellious fourth slashie
 
2013-03-28 05:40:01 PM

MonoChango: BojanglesPaladin: I am not an expert on the Mexican economy,

Nor am I but my wife has family in Nogales.  Before about 2007 they where doing ok.   Most people had jobs at the factories or stores that catered to American tourists.  Then three things happened at the same time;
1:  Americans needed a passport to cross.  Nobody is going to spend $100 and wait weeks to get a stupid passport just to buy crappy Chinese trinkets and cheap booze.  Thus Tourism Collapsed (I counted on one street, 17 out of 20 of the old curio shops where replaced or just shut down and abandoned.)
2:  The American Economy went into a tail spin so the factories started to "contract" their employees.  That is, they basically had to reapply for their job ever paycheck. They also halved their time.  Note, one cousin made about $50 a week before and it dropped to about $30.  Don't talk to me about minimum wage until you feed your wife and kid on $30 a week.
3:  American started making all our corn into Ethanol.  This trickled down to raise corn tortilla prices about double. Locals eats corn tortillas in every meal.


Show me an american without a passport and I'll show you someone who is closed-minded.
 
2013-03-28 05:41:57 PM
i.imgur.com
Machete
 
2013-03-28 05:42:40 PM

Treygreen13: Hickory-smoked: Hey, you want to know what would really knock the cartels down a peg?

Legalization.

You think the cartels would just... stop?


I think it would help. Wouldn't you?
 
2013-03-28 05:47:32 PM

Hickory-smoked: Treygreen13: Hickory-smoked: Hey, you want to know what would really knock the cartels down a peg?

Legalization.

You think the cartels would just... stop?

I think it would help. Wouldn't you?


Not really. I'm a proponent of legalization, but not for any reason other than "it's not harmful".

If you have a large population of people who have no qualms about smuggling, murdering, and corrupting the police and government to the point that the citizens start an armed revolt *against the police*, they're not going to just turn into productive members of society if you legalize marijuana. They'll still be people who desperately want money and are willing to butcher people and leave little pieces of their corpses in the streets as a reminder.
 
2013-03-28 05:48:57 PM

Girion47: Show me an american without a passport and I'll show you someone who is closed-minded.


Interesting observation.

jdhj2: [i.imgur.com image 600x401]
Machete


I really should just watch this movie.
 
2013-03-28 05:51:43 PM

Treygreen13: Hickory-smoked: Hey, you want to know what would really knock the cartels down a peg?

Legalization.

You think the cartels would just... stop?


If pot were legal then it really wouldnt matter what they do (as far as marijuana).  Free pot will trump Cheap Pot every time.  It would likely still be illegal to import it but it wouldnt matter, pot is not rocket science...well its not exactly tomatoes either but local free/cheap pot would drive the price of imported pot into a nonprofit enterprise.  Because thats the problem with Pot from Mexico, its in........farking Mexico.

Mind you this would have no impact on the drug civil war going on south of the border.  We are highly unlikely to legalize cocaine or meth any time soon.  The impact of legal pot on those two drugs would be minimal.  If you got meth, pot is likely not even on your radar.
 
2013-03-28 05:55:52 PM

Treygreen13: Hickory-smoked: Treygreen13: Hickory-smoked: Hey, you want to know what would really knock the cartels down a peg?

Legalization.

You think the cartels would just... stop?

I think it would help. Wouldn't you?

Not really. I'm a proponent of legalization, but not for any reason other than "it's not harmful".

If you have a large population of people who have no qualms about smuggling, murdering, and corrupting the police and government to the point that the citizens start an armed revolt *against the police*, they're not going to just turn into productive members of society if you legalize marijuana. They'll still be people who desperately want money and are willing to butcher people and leave little pieces of their corpses in the streets as a reminder.


The Mafia didn't disappear after prohibition ended, but violent crime dropped dramatically.
 
2013-03-28 05:56:16 PM

orclover: Treygreen13: Hickory-smoked: Hey, you want to know what would really knock the cartels down a peg?

Legalization.

You think the cartels would just... stop?

If pot were legal then it really wouldnt matter what they do (as far as marijuana).  Free pot will trump Cheap Pot every time.  It would likely still be illegal to import it but it wouldnt matter, pot is not rocket science...well its not exactly tomatoes either but local free/cheap pot would drive the price of imported pot into a nonprofit enterprise.  Because thats the problem with Pot from Mexico, its in........farking Mexico.

Mind you this would have no impact on the drug civil war going on south of the border.  We are highly unlikely to legalize cocaine or meth any time soon.  The impact of legal pot on those two drugs would be minimal.  If you got meth, pot is likely not even on your radar.


A 30% cut to the cartels revenue is not "no effect".
 
2013-03-28 05:56:43 PM

orclover: Mind you this would have no impact on the drug civil war going on south of the border.  We are highly unlikely to legalize cocaine or meth any time soon.  The impact of legal pot on those two drugs would be minimal.  If you got meth, pot is likely not even on your radar.


That's part of my argument, though. These people specialize in getting illegal things (be it drugs or people) across the border, taking what they want from the population, and violence.

As long as there is *something* illegal, or someone to take something from, these people won't just disappear.
 
2013-03-28 06:01:05 PM

Treygreen13: Hickory-smoked: Treygreen13: Hickory-smoked: Hey, you want to know what would really knock the cartels down a peg?

Legalization.

You think the cartels would just... stop?

I think it would help. Wouldn't you?

Not really. I'm a proponent of legalization, but not for any reason other than "it's not harmful".

If you have a large population of people who have no qualms about smuggling, murdering, and corrupting the police and government to the point that the citizens start an armed revolt *against the police*, they're not going to just turn into productive members of society if you legalize marijuana. They'll still be people who desperately want money and are willing to butcher people and leave little pieces of their corpses in the streets as a reminder.


You make a good point, overturning Prohibition didn't cause organized crime to disappear. But it clearly reduced the level of violence and corruption at the time which arose from Prohibition.
 
2013-03-28 06:02:13 PM
If only the towns people had some sort of weapon to protect themselves from this kind of behavior..
 
2013-03-28 06:12:46 PM

Ned Stark: orclover: Treygreen13: Hickory-smoked: Hey, you want to know what would really knock the cartels down a peg?

Legalization.

You think the cartels would just... stop?

If pot were legal then it really wouldnt matter what they do (as far as marijuana).  Free pot will trump Cheap Pot every time.  It would likely still be illegal to import it but it wouldnt matter, pot is not rocket science...well its not exactly tomatoes either but local free/cheap pot would drive the price of imported pot into a nonprofit enterprise.  Because thats the problem with Pot from Mexico, its in........farking Mexico.

Mind you this would have no impact on the drug civil war going on south of the border.  We are highly unlikely to legalize cocaine or meth any time soon.  The impact of legal pot on those two drugs would be minimal.  If you got meth, pot is likely not even on your radar.

A 30% cut to the cartels revenue is not "no effect".


A 30% increase in Meth production I wouldnt call positive.  If snickers bars were illegal, they would be trafficking them.  The business does not equal the drug.  Pot should be Legal for a very very very long list of reasons, but making life only slightly easier in Mexico is near the bottom.
 
2013-03-28 06:29:14 PM
There are parts of the US that need exactly this kind of tough love. You ever walked the streets of Oakland? or East LA? or Compton? or the South Bronx? or Detroit? or Liberty City in Miami? or E. St. Louis? or the Southeast or Northeast sides of Washington DC?
 
2013-03-28 06:31:38 PM

Magnanimous_J: Gyrfalcon: So howcome everyone who's all hot to invade Best Korea because of all their problems isn't so anxious to invade Mexico because of same?


Starting a "police action" in Mexico would be the biggest clusterfark this country has ever embarked on. You have all the asymmetrical warfare we've come to love from Iraq and Afghanistan with the added bonus that 7 million undocumented, potential enemy combatants already live in our country. There would be violence in every city in America due to it. Plus, America would get a front row seat to the horrors of war for the first time since the civil war. As a matter of fact, it might as well by the catalyst for a new civil war in America. Can you imagine our civil liberties remaining intact? Can you imagine the war being fought without horrifying atrocities on American citizens by both sides?


Without hyperbole, it could literally unravel our society.


THIS^^^^


It would be like Blood Meridian, but on a galactic scale.
 
2013-03-28 06:32:13 PM
Tina Turner in a chainmail anything.  Yum.
 
2013-03-28 06:32:43 PM
In economic theory, there is absolute advantage and comparative advantage.
America has the absolute advantage in every case.
We have the land, labour, and kapital (monetary, human and technological) to make anything.

Why don't we just make all the drugs here (I mean Breaking bad shows how to make meth at an industrial level, we already process cocaine from the coca leaf in Indiana to make topical pain suppressants to burn victims and then sell the denatured coca leaves to coca cola to flavor their soft drinks, we use morphiates in a thousand different configurations in our medicine), why don't we make all of the oil we need, through depolymerization of our organic waste stream and/or grow by way of algae, make all the electricity we need from solar/wind, and then work to consolodate our cities so that they are easily administrated, ordered, patrolled and can deliver services to people in need at much quicker rates of service and identify and coordinate corrective actions to the situations that are left over.

Then the entire middle east would go back to having an economy the size of finland, the cartels would have to resort to human trafficing and land extortion against the poorest of the poor, which would end up with the cartels eventually becoming the victims of 1000 cuts done by lynch mobs, like history shows over and over in those countries. North Korea, Taliban, Al Qaida, Hamas, etc, couldn't get financing from the now broke nation states like venezuela, Saudia Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Libya, Algeria etc. Without all of these "up and coming threats" China could stop thinking it needs to ramp up, its military, we could sell it the same technology to get rid of their dependance on coal, remove the threat of financial collapse for both China (Real estate housing bubble) and the US (Deficit/political deadlock/economic recession/social security benefits/etc.).

America has the capacity to make a new world economic theory a reality, and if we could just do it, in 15 years when the economic results were in, the world would be a much more stable profitable and nicer world than the awful future and tumultuous present that we are looking at right now.

America would be number 1, China would be number 2, European Union would be 3, and would all be unified against all comers. We could have contiguous trade over 3 super countries that hasn't been seen since the time of Genghis Kahn, the Persian Empire, and Alexanders time.
Best yet, if we could get India to shape up and stop focussing on purchasing gold and attempting to scour its people of their "extra organs" then there would be nearly 5 Billion people moving in common way leaving only the Southern Hemisphere to improve on in the final half of the century.

America can settle this if we just release preconceived notions that are really just talking points in difference, and not ideological principals anymore.
 
2013-03-28 06:46:22 PM
Really, Fark spelling nazis? 162 posts, and not a single one of you has snarked about "villian" yet?

For shame.
 
2013-03-28 06:57:34 PM

Macular Degenerate: There are parts of the US that need exactly this kind of tough love. You ever walked the streets of Oakland? or East LA? or Compton? or the South Bronx? or Detroit? or Liberty City in Miami? or E. St. Louis? or the Southeast or Northeast sides of Washington DC?


I can say I walked the streets of NE DC and SE DC.

do I get a prize?
 
2013-03-28 06:59:20 PM

gweilo8888: Really, Fark spelling nazis? 162 posts, and not a single one of you has snarked about "villian" yet?

For shame.


You know the situation is bad when the trolls fall silent.

/they're too busy carefully crafting their twisted logical reasoning for why this simply can't be Obama's fault
//and instead must be traced back to something the USA did no less than five but no more than thirteen years ago
///unless it can be traced back to something between 21 and 33 years ago
 
2013-03-28 07:08:06 PM
FTA Hundreds of armed vigilantes have taken control of a town on a major highway in the Pacific coast state of Guerrero, arresting local police officers and searching homes after a vigilante leader was killed. Several opened fire on a car of Mexican tourists headed to the beach for Easter week.

blog.angelatung.com
 
2013-03-28 07:16:14 PM

Abox: FTA Hundreds of armed vigilantes have taken control of a town on a major highway in the Pacific coast state of Guerrero, arresting local police officers and searching homes after a vigilante leader was killed. Several opened fire on a car of Mexican tourists headed to the beach for Easter week.

[blog.angelatung.com image 330x282]


The tourists ran the roadblock despite warnings and refused to stop until they were opened fire on. What word should we use, "US Army?"

/"UN Peacekeepers?"
//"IDF?"
///"People who really mean STOP when they say STOP?"
 
2013-03-28 07:36:14 PM

eynonmcwanker: Magnanimous_J: Gyrfalcon: So howcome everyone who's all hot to invade Best Korea because of all their problems isn't so anxious to invade Mexico because of same?


Starting a "police action" in Mexico would be the biggest clusterfark this country has ever embarked on. You have all the asymmetrical warfare we've come to love from Iraq and Afghanistan with the added bonus that 7 million undocumented, potential enemy combatants already live in our country. There would be violence in every city in America due to it. Plus, America would get a front row seat to the horrors of war for the first time since the civil war. As a matter of fact, it might as well by the catalyst for a new civil war in America. Can you imagine our civil liberties remaining intact? Can you imagine the war being fought without horrifying atrocities on American citizens by both sides?


Without hyperbole, it could literally unravel our society.

THIS^^^^


It would be like Blood Meridian, but on a galactic scale.


Really.

So we can fight asymmetrical war in Iraq or Afghanistan because we have incredible weapons of mass destruction on our side, but using them in Mexico would be just too difficult to manage. And we can lock up enemy combatants for extended periods without charge or trial as long as they're from a country a safe 10,000 miles away but it would be too messy to do it if they're from Dallas. And having a war that Americans would have to actually witness and participate in might cause them to want to negotiate before fighting; whereas so long as they only have to see it on TV where they can flip over to Honey Boo Boo when the carnage gets too intense means we can keep the conflict going indefinitely.

So then tell me this: Why is fear of drone strikes on US soil so freaking scary; but use of drones in Mexico too impossible to contemplate? Why is the idea that we can crush al-Qaeda easily possible but the idea we could crush the Zeta cartel impossible? Or is it implicit in your response: It would just be too messy.
 
2013-03-28 07:55:58 PM

Gyrfalcon: So then tell me this: Why is fear of drone strikes on US soil so freaking scary; but use of drones in Mexico too impossible to contemplate? Why is the idea that we can crush al-Qaeda easily possible but the idea we could crush the Zeta cartel impossible? Or is it implicit in your response: It would just be too messy.


Weren't you one of the guys who wanted the party that wasn't afraid to get their hands dirty removed from office, and replaced with people who had keeping their hands perfectly unstained by blood as their sole motive to do anything?

/and explicitly because you were so tired of the bad reputation the Rethuglicans were giving us
//this is what your victory looks like
 
2013-03-28 08:18:14 PM

Hickory-smoked: duenor: Good lord there are a lot of stupid, self-righteous, self-centered, self-loathing people in this thread.

Sheep
- believes Mexican cartels would find themselves helplessly disarmed if Americans lost their gun rights.
- believes these "vigilantes" (I'd just call them people defending their town because no one else will) should surrender their guns to their local honest police department.
- believes Americans don't need the 2A because the current level of corruption is ok and will stay the same into perpetuity.
- wants drugs to be legalized so they can smoke all the pot and coke they want; believes giving big pharma the green light to sell recreational drugs is a good idea
- oddly enough, believes big tobacco is evil
- believes that "4/5 smugglers are american citizens" BS. that's because those folks can't exactly flee into Mexico, can they? nor can the Border patrol go running into Mexico to nab the teams of smugglers on the other side of the fence. not to mention they are smuggling IN, not out...

I love a good strawman argument as much as the next guy, but you just started fabricating entire threads just now. Tone that imagination down before you hurt yourself.


How is this a strawman? That's a foolish comment.
This is a rather accurate description of the deplorable state of gullibility amongst many this community. It's not meant so much to insult as to hopefully spur a few people into more critical thinking rather than consistently approaching topics from their very ethno-centric point of view.
 
2013-03-28 08:34:06 PM

Nadie_AZ: duenor: Sheep
- believes Mexican cartels would find themselves helplessly disarmed if Americans lost their gun rights.

What do people believe?


Critical thinkers understand that large organized criminal institutions that have infiltrated local, state, and quite likely federal government are not bound by laws by definition. If every gun dealer in the US were to vanish overnight, the cartels would not be out of guns in 5, 10, 15 or even 20 years. They have simply too much money, power, and reach to be hampered much if at all by this. The only party to be disempowered by such legislation would be the people living near the border, who will essentially be helpless to protect themselves from criminal elements (armed or not).

I can concede that more can be done to prevent firearms from being illegally transported across the border. What I disagree with is the notion that by depriving the American citizenry of firearms, the Zetas, Salvatruchas, et al will be equally deprived of firearms.

Google images of mexican/salvi gangsters. Look closely at their guns. Then do some research and see how many of them were made in the US. You'll find these manufacturers:

FAL - made all over central and south america. tons of them around from Imbel, FN, the argentine army.... very very very few will be from the US because they are so expensive here (and dirt cheap there)
AK - there are almost no US manufacturers of AKs that the cartels would be buying from. as with the FAL argument, why pay $600 and up when you can get the same thing for $250? you don't see too many of these though
AR - yes, many of these are from the US. however, many are left over from the cold war and civil wars
Taurus - Brazil. revolvers and semi autos.

now some will look at pictures like this and say, well these are about 60% american guns. yes. but notice how they are covered in gold, platinum, and diamonds? you seriously think these people are going to have a hard time getting guns? they're buying them now from the US not because it's easy or cheap, but because we make  prestigious guns. don't kid yourself into thinking that our original colt 1911 .45 auto is somehow a superior killing tool than say your average Sistema Colt or Taurus .45, both widely available all over central and south america.

in summation, stripping the american citizen of the right to buy guns, ammo, magazines, etc is not going to have much of an appreciable effect on these criminal elements. it's like being told that from now on, buying a mercedes is going to cost double. your average noveau riche is going to saw, "aww..." .... and then just buy something else.
 
2013-03-28 08:35:42 PM

SuperNinjaToad: that's nothing.... back in the day of the Aztecs and all the other Indian tribes, when one group captures another or when they raid rival villages etc they would force the husband/father to watch as the raiding party violently rape his wife and daughter...then proceed to force the wife and kids to watch as they torture him in ways we can't even imagine. As if that is not bad enough they would finally cut the dude open while he is still alive and have his family eat his organs etc!!!


out of curiosity, where did you get this from? not disputing, just wonder how we might know this.
 
2013-03-28 08:37:58 PM
If these vigilantes bring some sense of people to the people in the town, I am all for it.
 
2013-03-28 09:01:58 PM
Just came here to say that the

3RD BEST:  MAD MAX
2ND BEST:  THE ROAD WARRIOR
1ST DAMNED PLACE:  FURY ROAD

(just kidding)

1ST PLACE IS THUNDERDOME, so suck my balls, haters!!!
 
2013-03-28 09:09:05 PM
Mikey1969
I don't know, but I don't think it's civilians with no training that can't distinguish between turistas and Cartel members...

1) Did you read TFA? They didn't stop at a checkpoint. US troops shot at civilians in Iraq for the same reason all the time. Is one OK and the other not?

2) What about civilians with good training? Would that be acceptable?
 
2013-03-28 09:52:39 PM
Duenor:  Critical thinkers understand that large organized criminal institutions that have infiltrated local, state, and quite likely federal government are not bound by laws by definition. If every gun dealer in the US were to vanish overnight, the cartels would not be out of guns in 5, 10, 15 or even 20 years. They have simply too much money, power, and reach to be hampered much if at all by this. The only party to be disempowered by such legislation would be the people living near the border, who will essentially be helpless to protect themselves from criminal elements (armed or not).

With mass murders happening at an alarming rate these days, you can expect the outrage to be high but unfortunately on the wrong idea.  One thing the American public needs to understand is that criminals will always have guns, and gun control just strips the public of their right to be arms.  Before the Aunsweitch (sp?) happened in Austria at the beginning of WWII, Hitler disarmed the public.  Who is to say that we are slowly getting sent that direction also.

Our right to bear arms is a Second Amendment right.  As much as people disagree with Sen. Cruz he made an excellent point.  If we make minor changes to the Second Amendment like who can and cannot purchase weapons, the kind of weapons, etc.  When does that spill over to the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendments?  Do we want the precedence of making minute changes to amendments without following the law which is defined as getting a majority of the states to ratify it?

If you go back to our history, it was the armed citizenry that fought and won against Britain (known as the best fighting force at the time) for our own indpendence.

If these "patriots" are fighting for their own freedom from tyranny in a world that is upside down in corruption and death so be it.  Every one deserves that right to have a safe and peaceful life.

/off my soap box now.
 
2013-03-28 10:08:17 PM
I moved from Guerrero in November, I'm not getting a kick out of these replies.
You really can't understand the reality of the situation there unless you experience it.
I've had the commandants of the naval sector buy me beers one night and a jefe of the local cartel buy for me the next night.
I've also seen the new mayor elect stand next to a leader of the 'new' cartel while they explained how they were pro-business and wanted everyone to make money.
And, I've also seen good friends gunned down, a block from my house, due to mistaken identity.
I love Mexico, but they do have problems, none of which have easy solutions.
 
2013-03-28 10:12:21 PM
Many good people live there, and they are sick of their government not helping them, but contribute even more to the problem. A few years ago a couple of second cousins of mine were kidnapped in Monterrey. My Uncle got his daughter back, but has yet to see his son. We all presume he is dead now. He sent his family over illegally  to get them away from that crap. Not because he couldn't afford to legally, but because it takes so much time to do so. Tell me, if gangsters were terrorizing your loved ones, wouldn't you go vigilante too?
 
2013-03-28 10:14:02 PM

MorteDiem: I moved from Guerrero in November, I'm not getting a kick out of these replies.
You really can't understand the reality of the situation there unless you experience it.
I've had the commandants of the naval sector buy me beers one night and a jefe of the local cartel buy for me the next night.
I've also seen the new mayor elect stand next to a leader of the 'new' cartel while they explained how they were pro-business and wanted everyone to make money.
And, I've also seen good friends gunned down, a block from my house, due to mistaken identity.
I love Mexico, but they do have problems, none of which have easy solutions.


I hear ya.
 
2013-03-28 10:19:56 PM

Macular Degenerate: There are parts of the US that need exactly this kind of tough love. You ever walked the streets of Oakland? or East LA? or Compton? or the South Bronx? or Detroit? or Liberty City in Miami? or E. St. Louis? or the Southeast or Northeast sides of Washington DC?


Yes to Oakland, East L.A., South Bronx, and Washington D.C.

/Wouldn't get out of the car in East Saint Louis
//Or in Cabrini Green in Chicago.
 
2013-03-28 10:48:38 PM
Mexico has always been Mad Max.

That's what makes it fun.
 
2013-03-28 10:52:15 PM
Can we just nuke that farking country and be done with it?
 
2013-03-28 11:24:55 PM

NephilimNexus: Caffandtranqs: Because the cops over there cannot be trusted.  They are criminals themselves who have been caught on video allowing gangsters to do their work.  Because the prosecutors never prosecute the right people.  Because the entire system is corrupt from top to bottom.

And this is different from the USA how, exactly?  Other than the lack of video tape, because our cops are so corrupt that they've actually made it illegal to expose their corruption on film?


You either have a very exaggerated view of corruption in the US or you aren't really aware of situation in Mexico.
 
2013-03-29 12:54:19 AM

Tatterdemalian: Gyrfalcon: So then tell me this: Why is fear of drone strikes on US soil so freaking scary; but use of drones in Mexico too impossible to contemplate? Why is the idea that we can crush al-Qaeda easily possible but the idea we could crush the Zeta cartel impossible? Or is it implicit in your response: It would just be too messy.

Weren't you one of the guys who wanted the party that wasn't afraid to get their hands dirty removed from office, and replaced with people who had keeping their hands perfectly unstained by blood as their sole motive to do anything?

/and explicitly because you were so tired of the bad reputation the Rethuglicans were giving us
//this is what your victory looks like


No, that wasn't me. Sorry. I am tired of the bad rep we we're getting; but not for the reasons you seem to be imputing to me; and anyway, this question is merely asking why military action is so acceptable overseas but so unacceptable in our own backyard. Assuming it's acceptable in Iraq or Best Korea, it should be equally acceptable in Mexico, and if it's not acceptable in Mexico, it should be unacceptable anywhere.

As far as "getting their hands dirty"--what the hell does that even mean? Hard workers get their hands dirty honestly; Mafia hit men get their hands dirty dishonestly. Which ones do your heroes emulate? "Getting their hands dirty" by interfering in another country's business probably isn't a good thing and I'm hardly recommending it for Mexico--but my question is directed to you and your gang who thought going into Iraq was such a great idea. So why isn't going into Mexico an equally good idea?

And I'm still not getting any answers from you all.
 
2013-03-29 01:04:23 AM

Gyrfalcon: Tatterdemalian: Gyrfalcon: So then tell me this: Why is fear of drone strikes on US soil so freaking scary; but use of drones in Mexico too impossible to contemplate? Why is the idea that we can crush al-Qaeda easily possible but the idea we could crush the Zeta cartel impossible? Or is it implicit in your response: It would just be too messy.

Weren't you one of the guys who wanted the party that wasn't afraid to get their hands dirty removed from office, and replaced with people who had keeping their hands perfectly unstained by blood as their sole motive to do anything?

/and explicitly because you were so tired of the bad reputation the Rethuglicans were giving us
//this is what your victory looks like

No, that wasn't me. Sorry. I am tired of the bad rep we we're getting; but not for the reasons you seem to be imputing to me; and anyway, this question is merely asking why military action is so acceptable overseas but so unacceptable in our own backyard. Assuming it's acceptable in Iraq or Best Korea, it should be equally acceptable in Mexico, and if it's not acceptable in Mexico, it should be unacceptable anywhere.

As far as "getting their hands dirty"--what the hell does that even mean? Hard workers get their hands dirty honestly; Mafia hit men get their hands dirty dishonestly. Which ones do your heroes emulate? "Getting their hands dirty" by interfering in another country's business probably isn't a good thing and I'm hardly recommending it for Mexico--but my question is directed to you and your gang who thought going into Iraq was such a great idea. So why isn't going into Mexico an equally good idea?

And I'm still not getting any answers from you all.


Are you really rallying for invading Mexico? Please tell me I misunderstood and am wrong.
 
2013-03-29 02:40:26 AM

ShawnDoc: I don't know, sound like Tea Party heaven. Who needs police and prosecutors, we'll just form our own vigilante group.


Well, to be fair, when your police and prosecutors are so corrupt they are with the criminals... can't really blame the masses for rising up just to get along in life again.
 
2013-03-29 05:23:02 AM

Girion47: MonoChango: BojanglesPaladin: I am not an expert on the Mexican economy,

Nor am I but my wife has family in Nogales.  Before about 2007 they where doing ok.   Most people had jobs at the factories or stores that catered to American tourists.  Then three things happened at the same time;
1:  Americans needed a passport to cross.  Nobody is going to spend $100 and wait weeks to get a stupid passport just to buy crappy Chinese trinkets and cheap booze.  Thus Tourism Collapsed (I counted on one street, 17 out of 20 of the old curio shops where replaced or just shut down and abandoned.)
2:  The American Economy went into a tail spin so the factories started to "contract" their employees.  That is, they basically had to reapply for their job ever paycheck. They also halved their time.  Note, one cousin made about $50 a week before and it dropped to about $30.  Don't talk to me about minimum wage until you feed your wife and kid on $30 a week.
3:  American started making all our corn into Ethanol.  This trickled down to raise corn tortilla prices about double. Locals eats corn tortillas in every meal.

Show me an american without a passport and I'll show you someone who is closed-minded.


Right here. Too poor to travel internationally, but I did go to Ontario once. Also other countries that aren't western European scare me.
 
2013-03-29 12:19:27 PM

echomike23: MaudlinMutantMollusk: echomike23: [global.fncstatic.com image 660x371]
beretta ar 70/90 and a ruger 10/22...interesting.

You sure? That stock seems long for a 10/22

could be a ruger 44,  i think its because the rifle has an upper cover.  ruger 10/22's in the us do not normally come with a cover that goes above the barrel.  they do make them though, also the magazine is a bit thin to be 223, 556, maybe a 44.  maybe a 22.


Marlin model 70 .22LR.  Very similar to the 10/22.  The Ruger .44 carbine feeds from an internal 4 round tubular magazine.
 
2013-03-29 02:04:42 PM
Something has to change, the corrupt keep getting more corrupt and the regular people are getting tired of it.
Sooner or later this will happen elsewhere, I don't blame these people nor do I call them rebels.

A family going to the beach refused to stop for a pack of machine gun waving fella's blocking a highway? I somehow doubt this story very much. Is there 1 person here who would risk a family in this way? NOPE

I wonder who will come crush these people the ARMY or the Cartel? Or both?
 
2013-03-29 02:24:11 PM

beerrun: Silent But Deadly:
ooh ooh, I have one:
El Nino = The Nino

Welcome to the party, pal.



*shakes tiny fist*
 
2013-03-29 03:56:41 PM

Rev. Skarekroe: Well.
I suppose mob justice is a KIND of justice.


When the police are corrupt and working with organized crimes, going vigilante is an acceptable option.  Those people put up with corruption and violence for far too long.  They showed remarkable restraint up to now.  I can't blame them for finally saying, "enough is enough"* and taking back their community.

* ya es suficiente ?
/ my high school spanish is weak
 
2013-03-29 04:01:01 PM

Mikey1969: Spanky3woods: Less Mexico. More Tina

My Gawd that woman was hot back in the day.

Dem legs!

Considering that she's 73? I'll STILL give her credit for being hot, although she is FINALLY starting to show her age. Tina Turner is badass, it's like she's a force of nature...


Here she is just a few years ago (2009), still looking great and working harder and better than those autotuned talentless hacks could ever hope to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmH4YlNdWAg

/I want the dancer with the short black hair on the right.  Fist of god, best 23 seconds, etc.
 
2013-03-29 06:59:07 PM

duenor: Hickory-smoked: duenor: Good lord there are a lot of stupid, self-righteous, self-centered, self-loathing people in this thread.

Sheep
- believes Mexican cartels would find themselves helplessly disarmed if Americans lost their gun rights.
- believes these "vigilantes" (I'd just call them people defending their town because no one else will) should surrender their guns to their local honest police department.
- believes Americans don't need the 2A because the current level of corruption is ok and will stay the same into perpetuity.
- wants drugs to be legalized so they can smoke all the pot and coke they want; believes giving big pharma the green light to sell recreational drugs is a good idea
- oddly enough, believes big tobacco is evil
- believes that "4/5 smugglers are american citizens" BS. that's because those folks can't exactly flee into Mexico, can they? nor can the Border patrol go running into Mexico to nab the teams of smugglers on the other side of the fence. not to mention they are smuggling IN, not out...

I love a good strawman argument as much as the next guy, but you just started fabricating entire threads just now. Tone that imagination down before you hurt yourself.

How is this a strawman? That's a foolish comment.
This is a rather accurate description of the deplorable state of gullibility amongst many this community. It's not meant so much to insult as to hopefully spur a few people into more critical thinking rather than consistently approaching topics from their very ethno-centric point of view.


Because not a single item from your list was said by anyone in this thread.
 
2013-03-29 08:39:46 PM

violentsalvation: At what point will we formally declare Mexico a failed state? Corruption is everywhere, public officials who cannot be corrupted are killed. There is no free press because journalists who actually report their civil war are killed. Over six years, estimates up to 100,000 dead, 1.6 million displaced refugees. All for an unwinnable drug war.

Can anyone tell me if whatever substance you or your friends favor has seen a jump in price or reduced availability over the last six years? People I know who use have told me no, but that might be because my proximity to the border.


I am live close to the mexican border in Texas....   You used to only be able to get shiatty mexican brick weed around here about 10 years ago, then about 5 years ago it became really hard to get and the good stuff came onto the market for some reason, probably grown in the US, unless the mexicans suddenly got much much much much much better at growing weed.  You can find some mexican brick weed again now, but it is a bit rarer that it used to be, and the good stuff is easy to find.
 
2013-03-29 08:44:02 PM
oh yeah, and there was never ever any change in price over the last 10+ years...  the price for both kinds always remained stable, no, rock solid, despite variations in availability...
 
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