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(Yahoo)   Given North Korea's reaction to the US flying B-52's in South Korean training missions, this new plan should draw an interesting reaction   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 212
    More: Amusing, B-52, North Korea, South Korea, stealth technology, military drills, United States Forces Korea  
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18526 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Mar 2013 at 10:09 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-28 08:49:28 AM  
Why? B-52s are nuclear capable, too.
 
2013-03-28 09:09:51 AM  

vygramul: Why? B-52s are nuclear capable, too.


And probably more threatening in this situation. Who even needs B-2's there, it's not as if they have the capacity to shoot down B-52s either. And it's not as if we wouldn't take out every SAM/AA gun with time on target tomahawks before flying in anyway. Well maybe not EVERY one but we'd damn sure clear a swath to Pyongyang.
 
2013-03-28 09:13:14 AM  
B-52's aren't invisible to radar, B-2's are. Assuming that the launching base for either plane is not South Korea, this difference means having a short time to get your air defense system ready and having literally no time. To do so. Same thing for evacuating important personnel to a nuclear bunker or to China-little time vs. none.
 
2013-03-28 09:28:19 AM  

Steve Zodiac: B-52's aren't invisible to radar, B-2's are. Assuming that the launching base for either plane is not South Korea, this difference means having a short time to get your air defense system ready and having literally no time. To do so. Same thing for evacuating important personnel to a nuclear bunker or to China-little time vs. none.


The point is that "nuclear-capable" in a headline or description is really rather redundant. It's like saying "indoor plumbing" in an ad for an apartment building.
 
2013-03-28 09:43:47 AM  
Why is anyone even bothering to listen to these people? Even the Chinese won't let them get away with anything as stupid as an unprovoked attack on anyone other than their own population.
 
2013-03-28 10:10:48 AM  

Steve Zodiac: B-52's aren't invisible to radar, B-2's are.


...which means it's completely pointless to use B-2's for power projection.
 
2013-03-28 10:11:34 AM  
They surround their stealth bomber with non-stealth F-18s. Nobody will be able to find it now!!
 
2013-03-28 10:11:38 AM  
You know, if the idea is to scare the North a bit, we really don't need to waste the jet fuel flying all the way around the world. Just publicly announce we've been flying a whole squadron of stealth bombers near North Korea for the last week. Make 'em wonder if we're bluffing or if their stealthiness is just that good, and we save a few bucks.

Everybody wins.
 
2013-03-28 10:13:00 AM  
B-52's can do one thing better than anyone. Old school carpet bombing in case shiat goes full derp
 
2013-03-28 10:13:24 AM  
Next they'll want us to send world-peace over there.
 
2013-03-28 10:13:26 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Why is anyone even bothering to listen to these people? Even the Chinese won't let them get away with anything as stupid as an unprovoked attack on anyone other than their own population.


Think about it. All the Nork leadership wants is attention, so they start making outlandish threats the U.S.S.R. couldn't have carried out in their best year, and we respond with a show to demonstrate we take them "seriously"

Then we send more food, and some of it actually goes to the general population there.

The only real worry is that one of their delusional generals may start really believing their own hype, and kill a few South Koreans before the North ceases to exist as a political entity.
 
2013-03-28 10:13:59 AM  

vygramul: Steve Zodiac: B-52's aren't invisible to radar, B-2's are. Assuming that the launching base for either plane is not South Korea, this difference means having a short time to get your air defense system ready and having literally no time. To do so. Same thing for evacuating important personnel to a nuclear bunker or to China-little time vs. none.

The point is that "nuclear-capable" in a headline or description is really rather redundant. It's like saying "indoor plumbing" in an ad for an apartment building.


Well, if the apartment's in North Korea...
 
2013-03-28 10:14:16 AM  
Yeah, I suppose North Korea will have to hook that phone back up so they can cut the cord again.

/NK gets one free shot at Seoul with their artillery and then we destroy them and Kim Jong Un's comfortable life as a despot comes to end when we dig his ass out of a spider hole near the Yalu River
//he's not doing shiat
 
2013-03-28 10:15:08 AM  

Farking Canuck: They surround their stealth bomber with non-stealth F-18s. Nobody will be able to find it now!!


F-16 dude...
 
2013-03-28 10:15:29 AM  
Do nukes work when there's nothing there in the target zone?
 
2013-03-28 10:16:29 AM  
Did they ever get the B-2's smart rack for the small diameter bomb up and running?  IIRC they could fit hundreds of those suckers in there, each one a precision bomb with an independent target.
 
2013-03-28 10:16:42 AM  
Farking Canuck


They surround their stealth bomber with non-stealth F-18s. Nobody will be able to find it now!!

Sadly Stealth Bombers are useless on NK, their idea of radar is 50 guys out side with binoculars.
 
2013-03-28 10:18:13 AM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Farking Canuck


They surround their stealth bomber with non-stealth F-18s. Nobody will be able to find it now!!

Sadly Stealth Bombers are useless on NK, their idea of radar is 50 guys out side with binoculars.


It's just a polite reminder to the Chinese that this time they'll want to stay on their side of the Yalu.
 
2013-03-28 10:18:40 AM  

A10Mechanic: Farking Canuck: They surround their stealth bomber with non-stealth F-18s. Nobody will be able to find it now!!

F-16 dude...


Right ... should have noticed the single engine. I was more thinking about the lack of stealth than looking closely at the fighter.

/should have also been thinking Air Force and not Navy
 
2013-03-28 10:19:30 AM  
War between the US and the China-Russia axis is inevitable, so this is as good a touchstone as any.
 
2013-03-28 10:20:01 AM  

styckx: B-52's can do one thing better than anyone. Old school carpet bombing in case shiat goes full derp


My thought too. Three ship cells removing a swath of earth the size of the National Mall.

ARCLIGHT part 3 coming up.
 
2013-03-28 10:20:02 AM  
Ah, best korea.  One of the last of the fill tilt, woof ticket barking, "our leader is eternal god", governance by hubris cartoon republics.  You can jape on the hippies, but "hey, everybody siddown, have some chamomile, put a record on and chill out" isn't the worst advice we've come up with.
 
2013-03-28 10:20:15 AM  

Arkanaut: Steve Zodiac: B-52's aren't invisible to radar, B-2's are.

...which means it's completely pointless to use B-2's for power projection.


Depends.

Which has a bigger mindscrew factor?:

1) you go out on your front porch to grab a paper, you see a guy standing there with a camera snapping pictures, you exchange waves, and he leaves. The next day, you see your picture in the paper.

2) You go out on your front porch to grab the paper. Page 1 is a picture of you grabbing the paper last week, taken from no more than ten feet away, but you never saw anybody standing there taking a photo.

Next up, we'll probably release some surveillance data that could only have been taken from inside NK airspace. (A picture in the newspaper, taken from inside your home, of you sitting at the breakfast table, reading the paper and scratching your balls.)
 
2013-03-28 10:20:54 AM  
Fatties gonna fat.
 
2013-03-28 10:21:26 AM  
While it's never a good thing when a long time foe starts sabre rattling, especially one as mercurial as North Korea, I can't help but wonder if increasing pressure in this way is really the best way to handle the situation. North Korea has a good idea what American, South Korean, and Japanese militaries are capable of. There's no winning strategy for them.

So why drive the stakes higher with such flagrant shows of force? The North Koreans aren't going to say "oh well, that's obviously too much firepower. We'd better step back." They are taking these shows of force as insults to their pride and have already ratcheted up the rhetoric, threatening to hit South Korea and Guam with missiles.

How about we just step back a bit. Put some PAC-3s in SK, Japan, and Guam, and let things cool off a bit.
 
2013-03-28 10:21:57 AM  

Arkanaut: Steve Zodiac: B-52's aren't invisible to radar, B-2's are.

...which means it's completely pointless to use B-2's for power projection.


That's why they put out a press release
 
2013-03-28 10:22:10 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Why is anyone even bothering to listen to these people? Even the Chinese won't let them get away with anything as stupid as an unprovoked attack on anyone other than their own population.


I am picturing Obama taking a nap and Biden, after slipping out for some drinks in a DC dive in his kickin' TA, deciding it would be funny as all hell to troll Little Un into an early heart attack. Obama wakes up, sees what's going on, also thinks it's funny and gets all Star Trek Cpt Picard-y "Make it so". *fist bumps* all around.

/also gives the Preppers something else to prep for
//so it's good for the economy!
 
2013-03-28 10:23:07 AM  

Arkanaut: Steve Zodiac: B-52's aren't invisible to radar, B-2's are.

...which means it's completely pointless to use B-2's for power projection.


Maybe that's why the U.S. announced their presence?
 
2013-03-28 10:23:49 AM  

SurelyShirley: Arkanaut: Steve Zodiac: B-52's aren't invisible to radar, B-2's are.

...which means it's completely pointless to use B-2's for power projection.

Maybe that's why the U.S. announced their presence?


Be funny to do that and not send them. How would they know?
 
2013-03-28 10:23:54 AM  

Steve Zodiac: B-52's aren't invisible to radar, B-2's are. Assuming that the launching base for either plane is not South Korea, this difference means having a short time to get your air defense system ready and having literally no time. To do so. Same thing for evacuating important personnel to a nuclear bunker or to China-little time vs. none.


I think if the need arises for a nuclear response to NK, it will come in the shape of a Tomahawk or ICBM, not a bomber. Far less time to get in the bunker for the first two than the latter, also.

/we'd target the bunker anyway
//and anything else that smells like a nuclear facility
 
2013-03-28 10:24:12 AM  
Greenlight Operation Rock Lobster?

assets: one shack (tin roof, rusted)
 
2013-03-28 10:24:12 AM  

YoOjo: Do nukes work when there's nothing there in the target zone?


There are plenty of people just no food.
//my question is why are we feeding the trolls here?
 
2013-03-28 10:24:39 AM  

dv-ous: Next up, we'll probably release some surveillance data that could only have been taken from inside NK airspace. (A picture in the newspaper, taken from inside your home, of you sitting at the breakfast table, reading the paper and scratching your balls.)


That certainly would be interesting -- might draw an overreaction from Fat Leader though.
 
2013-03-28 10:25:02 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: While it's never a good thing when a long time foe starts sabre rattling, especially one as mercurial as North Korea, I can't help but wonder if increasing pressure in this way is really the best way to handle the situation. North Korea has a good idea what American, South Korean, and Japanese militaries are capable of. There's no winning strategy for them.

So why drive the stakes higher with such flagrant shows of force? The North Koreans aren't going to say "oh well, that's obviously too much firepower. We'd better step back." They are taking these shows of force as insults to their pride and have already ratcheted up the rhetoric, threatening to hit South Korea and Guam with missiles.

How about we just step back a bit. Put some PAC-3s in SK, Japan, and Guam, and let things cool off a bit.


Cancelling prearranged drills with allies just shows NK that their verbal diarrhea can impact us.  They're not going to jack or shiat, so why bother?

/plus even in the early 2000s when the South Korea administration tried to be friendly to the North, the North still acted retarded and there incidents/confrontations between the ROK and DPRK militiaries
//there is nothing to be gained by being nice to them
 
2013-03-28 10:25:30 AM  

Boojum2k: The only real worry is that one of their delusional generals may start really believing their own hype, and kill a few South Koreans before the North ceases to exist as a political entity.


That's what worries me.  They all act unhinged, and sooner or later people start to turn into the things the pretend to be.  As long as the North Korean leadership is grounded in the reality of how hopeless their tactical situation is, the situation should remain peaceful (or at least non-shooting).  But way too many people's lives depend upon whether Kim Jong-Un is actually a maniac or just pretending to be one.
 
2013-03-28 10:26:19 AM  

monoski: YoOjo: Do nukes work when there's nothing there in the target zone?

There are plenty of people just no food.
//my question is why are we feeding the trolls here?


Maybe someone somewhere in the intelligence community knows something that isn't public information.
 
2013-03-28 10:26:24 AM  

Bendal: Steve Zodiac: B-52's aren't invisible to radar, B-2's are. Assuming that the launching base for either plane is not South Korea, this difference means having a short time to get your air defense system ready and having literally no time. To do so. Same thing for evacuating important personnel to a nuclear bunker or to China-little time vs. none.

I think if the need arises for a nuclear response to NK, it will come in the shape of a Tomahawk or ICBM, not a bomber. Far less time to get in the bunker for the first two than the latter, also.

/we'd target the bunker anyway
//and anything else that smells like a nuclear facility


Won't be an ICBM. If we ever launch any of those, somebody else will launch all of theirs.
 
2013-03-28 10:27:11 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Why is anyone even bothering to listen to these people? Even the Chinese won't let them get away with anything as stupid as an unprovoked attack on anyone other than their own population.


They have a fairly good recent history of launching unprovoked attacks on South Koreans.

Sure, China may slap them down after they kill a bunch more South Koreans, but it'd be a better plan to try to avoid that in the first place.  At least I suspect the South Koreans would think so.
 
2013-03-28 10:28:16 AM  
"Last night our B-2's completed their first training flights over Pyongyang. . ."

Even if it's not true, just that statement would make Kim shiat himself.

"We are aware that is North Korean airspace, but since the DPRK has renounced the armistice which ended hostilities, we are no longer bound to respect their airspace as we are in a state of armed conflict with them.  If the DPRK leadership would like to re-think the armistice, there's always Panmunjeom."
 
2013-03-28 10:28:28 AM  
<img src="img413.imageshack.us

                                             They're gonna dance this mess around!
 
hej [TotalFark]
2013-03-28 10:29:15 AM  
How does a "nuclear capable" bomber differ from one that drops regular bombs?
 
2013-03-28 10:29:21 AM  

ha-ha-guy: AverageAmericanGuy: While it's never a good thing when a long time foe starts sabre rattling, especially one as mercurial as North Korea, I can't help but wonder if increasing pressure in this way is really the best way to handle the situation. North Korea has a good idea what American, South Korean, and Japanese militaries are capable of. There's no winning strategy for them.

So why drive the stakes higher with such flagrant shows of force? The North Koreans aren't going to say "oh well, that's obviously too much firepower. We'd better step back." They are taking these shows of force as insults to their pride and have already ratcheted up the rhetoric, threatening to hit South Korea and Guam with missiles.

How about we just step back a bit. Put some PAC-3s in SK, Japan, and Guam, and let things cool off a bit.

Cancelling prearranged drills with allies just shows NK that their verbal diarrhea can impact us.  They're not going to jack or shiat, so why bother?

/plus even in the early 2000s when the South Korea administration tried to be friendly to the North, the North still acted retarded and there incidents/confrontations between the ROK and DPRK militiaries
//there is nothing to be gained by being nice to them


You're saying the B-52 and now these B-2 flybys were pre-arranged drills?

Are you privy to such information?
 
2013-03-28 10:29:21 AM  

HMS_Blinkin: Boojum2k: The only real worry is that one of their delusional generals may start really believing their own hype, and kill a few South Koreans before the North ceases to exist as a political entity.

That's what worries me.  They all act unhinged, and sooner or later people start to turn into the things the pretend to be.  As long as the North Korean leadership is grounded in the reality of how hopeless their tactical situation is, the situation should remain peaceful (or at least non-shooting).  But way too many people's lives depend upon whether Kim Jong-Un is actually a maniac or just pretending to be one.


So the other major reason for providing a show of force is to keep their military leadership a little more grounded. They feel all big and bad in their shiatty little country, and look across the border and see a squadron of planes, each with more firepower than their entire armed forces, playing games like it's no big deal, they get a reality check. They can still bark all they want, but they know their bite isn't big enough.

Ignore them completely, and they'll want to test out their bite.
 
2013-03-28 10:29:25 AM  

vygramul: Steve Zodiac: B-52's aren't invisible to radar, B-2's are. Assuming that the launching base for either plane is not South Korea, this difference means having a short time to get your air defense system ready and having literally no time. To do so. Same thing for evacuating important personnel to a nuclear bunker or to China-little time vs. none.

The point is that "nuclear-capable" in a headline or description is really rather redundant. It's like saying "indoor plumbing" in an ad for an apartment building.




THEY HAVE THAT NOW?!?
 
2013-03-28 10:29:47 AM  
Love Shack Baby!
 
2013-03-28 10:30:17 AM  

hej: How does a "nuclear capable" bomber differ from one that drops regular bombs?


It is capable of dropping nuclear bombs.
 
2013-03-28 10:31:21 AM  

hej: How does a "nuclear capable" bomber differ from one that drops regular bombs?


Specially designed attach points to hold the nuclear materials.

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-28 10:31:39 AM  

Fano: Greenlight Operation Rock Lobster?

assets: one shack (tin roof, rusted)


I dont know why but this made me laugh and is going to give me a real nice start to the morning ENJOY!
 
2013-03-28 10:31:42 AM  

HMS_Blinkin: Boojum2k: The only real worry is that one of their delusional generals may start really believing their own hype, and kill a few South Koreans before the North ceases to exist as a political entity.

That's what worries me.  They all act unhinged, and sooner or later people start to turn into the things the pretend to be.  As long as the North Korean leadership is grounded in the reality of how hopeless their tactical situation is, the situation should remain peaceful (or at least non-shooting).  But way too many people's lives depend upon whether Kim Jong-Un is actually a maniac or just pretending to be one.


I'd suggest picking up "Nothing to Envy" by Barbara Demick, it provides a good look into the mind of NK defectors, including military personnel and citizens who talk about life in the military and past confrontations with the Kims.  Specifically she talks to defectors from Chongjin who were around for the 1995 coup attempt against Kim Jong Il.

The generals aren't really a threat.  At some level they're like feudal lords and they control both military and economic assets.  Most of them know that a war means an end to their comfy life style and they don't really want it.

/there is also a story about three soldiers playing with a pair of American nail clippers they bought on the black market, the one says "Wow, these are much better than ours.  The Americans make much better stuff, they never go dull."  After a few moments another soldier goes "How much better must their weapons be?".  All three defected shortly thereafter.
 
2013-03-28 10:32:04 AM  

Bendal: I think if the need arises for a nuclear response to NK, it will come in the shape of a Tomahawk or ICBM, not a bomber. Far less time to get in the bunker for the first two than the latter, also.


The whole point of the B-2 is the unspoken threat of "We could blow you up and you wouldn't even know it until the mushroom clouds are rising, so stay on our good side?  M'kay?"

We really, SERIOUSLY don't want to plant mushrooms and build glass parking lots, but knowing we have a virtually undetectable first-strike capable launch platform can have its merits for getting some adversaries to pipe down.
 
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