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(Minneapolis Star Tribune)   New university AD: I'm firing the coach, at the cost of millions, so I can bring in my own guy. His own guy: How 'bout no   (startribune.com) divider line 43
    More: Dumbass, New University, vcu, Flip Saunders, athletic director, Florida Gulf Coast, Tubby Smith, Wichita State, Shaka Smart  
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3699 clicks; posted to Sports » on 28 Mar 2013 at 9:39 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-28 09:43:27 AM  
And so the Glen Mason curse was extended to the basketball program.

/run Gopher hockey, run for your life
 
2013-03-28 09:45:04 AM  
Another stellar move by the U.

/F em' Bucky!
 
2013-03-28 09:50:02 AM  
To be fair, Tubby Smith's annual February collapse couldn't go on.  But the AD should've had someone better lined up for the job already.
 
2013-03-28 10:09:18 AM  
Shaka....when the walls fell.
 
2013-03-28 10:09:41 AM  
I'm shocked Shaka Smart wouldn't leave a comfy job at VCU where he can do no wrong for the frozen tundra where the facilities are older than dirt and basketball is behind hockey in the pecking order.
 
2013-03-28 10:19:13 AM  

lemurs: To be fair, Tubby Smith's annual February collapse couldn't go on.  But the AD should've had someone better lined up for the job already.


According to the rumor mill, Flip Saunders really wants the job, so they still have that option on the table.
 
2013-03-28 10:22:53 AM  
If Shaka wasn't going to leave VCU last year for a $2.5 million salary, what made them think he would leave this year? The 1.5 million Shaka gets now is deceptively low. Given all the bonuses and perks built in to his contract, it's more like 2 million. At VCU he gets to be the big dog in a weak conference, make the tournament every year (either through automatic bid or record), has no pressure to win any games in the tournament, and is a revered figure. At Minnesota he would likely be expected to produce right away, would be a few sub-500 seasons away from a firing, and would be playing in one of the most grueling conferences. Michigan State and Ohio State are perennially good. Michigan and Indiana are obviously strong, resurgent teams. Illinois and Wisconsin and even Purdue are strong depending on the year. Who would want to jump into that shark tank?
 
2013-03-28 11:03:40 AM  
From what I've heard, VCU might get an invitation to the new Big East (basketball) Conference.  So why would Shaka go up north where he'd be a jobber to the likes of Indiana, Ohio St., et. al. and instead stay so that VCU's moves to a conference where they could win it next season.
 
2013-03-28 11:05:51 AM  
Just give the job to Flip already.

But I do thank the Strib for doubling down on the laughfest that Buzz Williams would entertain an offer to leave a program with 3 consecutive Sweet 16 appearances to coach the Gophers.  That's rich!

Norwood should've kept Tubby.

So how many coaching contract buy-outs are the U paying now?  (And the $800,000 buy-out for the football team to dodge playing "perennial football powerhouse" North Carolina.

And it is just a matter of time before Kill and Lucia get the axe.
 
2013-03-28 11:20:46 AM  

Rwa2play: From what I've heard, VCU might get an invitation to the new Big East (basketball) Conference.  So why would Shaka go up north where he'd be a jobber to the likes of Indiana, Ohio St., et. al. and instead stay so that VCU's moves to a conference where they could win it next season.


Not likely. If they wanted them, they would have invited them at the same time as Butler and Xavier.
 
2013-03-28 11:33:34 AM  
Tubby, Shaka, Buzz, and Flip?

Well, there's your problem right there...stop trying to hire the farking mascots as coaches.
 
2013-03-28 11:35:00 AM  

lemurs: To be fair, Tubby Smith's annual February collapse couldn't go on.


Minnesota wasn't exactly killing it prior to Tubby getting the job.
 
2013-03-28 12:19:29 PM  

westpointer: Just give the job to Flip already.

But I do thank the Strib for doubling down on the laughfest that Buzz Williams would entertain an offer to leave a program with 3 consecutive Sweet 16 appearances to coach the Gophers.  That's rich!

Norwood should've kept Tubby.

So how many coaching contract buy-outs are the U paying now?  (And the $800,000 buy-out for the football team to dodge playing "perennial football powerhouse" North Carolina.

And it is just a matter of time before Kill and Lucia get the axe.


Actually Buzz hates the Marquette AD so the rumor at has some legs.
 
2013-03-28 12:20:32 PM  
I'm just happy that the Gopher basketball players aren't out raping the local folk while on road trips and don't have to get off the team bus for an impromptu line-up...

/Obscure?
 
2013-03-28 12:32:42 PM  
Please be Brad Brownell... Oh Please!!!
 
2013-03-28 12:40:40 PM  

insano: If Shaka wasn't going to leave VCU last year for a $2.5 million salary, what made them think he would leave this year? The 1.5 million Shaka gets now is deceptively low. Given all the bonuses and perks built in to his contract, it's more like 2 million. At VCU he gets to be the big dog in a weak conference, make the tournament every year (either through automatic bid or record), has no pressure to win any games in the tournament, and is a revered figure. At Minnesota he would likely be expected to produce right away, would be a few sub-500 seasons away from a firing, and would be playing in one of the most grueling conferences. Michigan State and Ohio State are perennially good. Michigan and Indiana are obviously strong, resurgent teams. Illinois and Wisconsin and even Purdue are strong depending on the year. Who would want to jump into that shark tank?


To be fair-
Included in the deal are salary increases for his coaching staff, better travel, better meals for the players, and upgraded video equipment for coaches and players to do scouting.
"The majority of it is stuff for the program and not stuff that's for him," McLaughlin said.

5 teams from A-10 made the Tournament, all won their first round games (beating lower seeds) unfortunately all but LaSalle lost the next game, albeit to higher seeds.  Maybe they're not a perennial powerhouse Conference but not sure I'd call them weak.
Of course with the realignments going on I agree they're losing more than they're getting (dammit)  :)
 
2013-03-28 12:40:52 PM  

llortcM_yllort: According to the rumor mill, Flip Saunders really wants the job, so they still have that option on the table.


I think Flip would do a good job.
I've been convinced, however, that the AD Norwood Teague and his assistant Mike Ellis (who created the Villa 7) are going to go after someone currently coaching in college basketball, either as an assistant or head coach.

A lot of the media assumed he was going after Shaka Smart, who knows if that was ever his plan. I'm guessing no. Poaching from your previous employer doesn't seem good form in this particular instance, and obviously Smart wants to stay at VCU. If they have a good relationship, which by all accounts they do, I'm thinking Teague probably knew that.

Ken VeryBigLiar: Actually Buzz hates the Marquette AD so the rumor at has some legs.


Read that too, though I don't know if Buzz's unhappiness with his situation at Marquette is documented or just a rumor.
I kind of feel like Teague and Ellis have a lot of confidence in their ability to hire assistants into HC positions, so my gut feeling is that's what's going to happen.

Either way I'm not loosing sleep over Tubby Smith's departure.
 
2013-03-28 12:57:29 PM  

StRalphTheLiar: Rwa2play: From what I've heard, VCU might get an invitation to the new Big East (basketball) Conference.  So why would Shaka go up north where he'd be a jobber to the likes of Indiana, Ohio St., et. al. and instead stay so that VCU's moves to a conference where they could win it next season.

Not likely. If they wanted them, they would have invited them at the same time as Butler and Xavier.


My thinking too but who knows what happens next year...

/ot I clicked the link in your profile and wow. I didn't post in that thread but was laughing my ass off when it was happening
 
2013-03-28 12:57:58 PM  
ESPN is saying they're going after Fred Hoiberg and Brad Stevens. For whatever that's worth.
 
2013-03-28 01:02:48 PM  

Whack-a-Mole: 5 teams from A-10 made the Tournament, all won their first round games (beating lower seeds) unfortunately all but LaSalle lost the next game, albeit to higher seeds.  Maybe they're not a perennial powerhouse Conference but not sure I'd call them weak.
Of course with the realignments going on I agree they're losing more than they're getting (dammit)  :)


No, A10 isn't exactly weak (although losing Butler and Xavier doesn't help), but it's all about expectations. Shaka could go on winning the occasional tourney game for the next 20 years at VCU and not have to worry about his job. At Minnesota? Well just look at what happened to Tubby.
 
2013-03-28 01:14:05 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: ESPN is saying they're going after Fred Hoiberg and Brad Stevens. For whatever that's worth.


Hoiberg, really?  The mayor of Ames, IA.  I don't see him moving unless they really offer a whole lot more cash then ISU is willing to give him.  He may use it to get more from ISU but I doubt he will leave.
 
2013-03-28 01:19:41 PM  
Is there anybody who didn't see this coming?  Did anyone really think that after was Michigan did to Shaka's HAVOC system, that he'd really want to play them (and other, better BIG teams) all winter long?
 
2013-03-28 01:20:17 PM  

HMS_Blinkin: Is there anybody who didn't see this coming?  Did anyone really think that after was what Michigan did to Shaka's HAVOC system, that he'd really want to play them (and other, better BIG teams) all winter long?


sorry, fixed
 
2013-03-28 01:48:01 PM  

insano: Whack-a-Mole: 5 teams from A-10 made the Tournament, all won their first round games (beating lower seeds) unfortunately all but LaSalle lost the next game, albeit to higher seeds.  Maybe they're not a perennial powerhouse Conference but not sure I'd call them weak.
Of course with the realignments going on I agree they're losing more than they're getting (dammit)  :)

No, A10 isn't exactly weak (although losing Butler and Xavier doesn't help), but it's all about expectations. Shaka could go on winning the occasional tourney game for the next 20 years at VCU and not have to worry about his job. At Minnesota? Well just look at what happened to Tubby.


Tubby's firing was at least as much related to his "line change" coaching style that would leave the team's best players on the bench for extended periods of time as it was the direct results of the games themselves. Fans will forgive losses much more easily when the best players are actually playing and not riding pine for guys like Ingram, Welch, and Ahanmisi.
 
2013-03-28 01:58:05 PM  

HMS_Blinkin: HMS_Blinkin: Is there anybody who didn't see this coming?  Did anyone really think that after was what Michigan did to Shaka's HAVOC system, that he'd really want to play them (and other, better BIG teams) all winter long?

sorry, fixed


Michigan did kick VCU's ass, no doubt about that!  Observation and a real question.( seeing Michigan in your profile)

Personal Observation-I've seen most all the VCU games this year and I understand that Michigan is a better team than pretty much all of VCU's competition this year. Given that, I still think VCU didn't bring their best game and could have played better (at least, made it respectable)

TBH didn't see much of Michigan this year so the question is-  Were they a bit more on or off than usual or was that pretty much the way they play every game?

not trying to make excuses, honest question is honest:)
 
2013-03-28 02:07:33 PM  

Whack-a-Mole: TBH didn't see much of Michigan this year so the question is-  Were they a bit more on or off than usual or was that pretty much the way they play every game?


Michigan played about the level they've been at all year.  However Michigan is still a young team and picked some really important games/conference games to shiat the bed and play like underclassmen (blew a 15 point lead over PSU in the 2nd, and a couple other really bad games).  Michigan is capable of putting together a tourney run where they play at the level they played against VCU and make the Final Four.  They're also capable of playing like a team where the starters have on average 1.8 years of college experience.

At the start of the year I'd call the VCU game average or perhaps even a smidge below average.  After some of the collapses though, it will vary based on which Michigan team shows up.

/the game before Michigan struggled to get going against SDSU and had interior problems
//eventually they remembered they were good, but for a while there was the threat of another debacle
 
2013-03-28 02:08:46 PM  

xtalman: Hoiberg, really? The mayor of Ames, IA. I don't see him moving unless they really offer a whole lot more cash then ISU is willing to give him. He may use it to get more from ISU but I doubt he will leave.


Like I said, ESPN is saying it. I think I'd trust an anonymous commenter in the local paper more.
 
2013-03-28 02:18:44 PM  

HMS_Blinkin: Is there anybody who didn't see this coming?  Did anyone really think that after was Michigan did to Shaka's HAVOC system, that he'd really want to play them (and other, better BIG teams) all winter long?


It has nothing to do with that game. If he wanted to coach in the B1G he would already be coaching at Illinois. They offered him a far better situation last year and he passed.

Same goes for Stevens.
 
2013-03-28 02:23:32 PM  

Whack-a-Mole: TBH didn't see much of Michigan this year so the question is- Were they a bit more on or off than usual or was that pretty much the way they play every game?


Michigan does have a better overall team and better players, but Michigan is also a bad match-up for VCU's style of play.
IMO Michigan's strength is its guards. Good guard play tends to make teams with aggressive ball-pressure (especially full-court) defenses look terrible.
Wisconsin eeked out an OT win over Michigan in the regular season and ousted them in the conference tourney. Their boring style of play is basically to just make you work the ball around and focus on making you take tough shots, instead of trying to get you to turn the ball over. Seems to be more effective against a team like MI.

"Havoc" against a full B1G schedule would probably be a mixed bag. Probably blow some teams out, but unlikely to get you near a title. At the moment, the B1G is a very tough conference.
 
2013-03-28 03:05:13 PM  

ha-ha-guy: Whack-a-Mole: TBH didn't see much of Michigan this year so the question is-  Were they a bit more on or off than usual or was that pretty much the way they play every game?

Michigan played about the level they've been at all year.

At the start of the year I'd call the VCU game average or perhaps even a smidge below average.  After some of the collapses though, it will vary based on which Michigan team shows up.


That's VCU too, Depends on who shows up. Even if they had brought their A game I'm not saying they would have won but at least they might have made it respectable. IMO the blowout of Akron screwed them up mentally and the wrong team came to play.

tallguywithglasseson: Whack-a-Mole: TBH didn't see much of Michigan this year so the question is- Were they a bit more on or off than usual or was that pretty much the way they play every game?

Michigan does have a better overall team and better players, but Michigan is also a bad match-up for VCU's style of play.
IMO Michigan's strength is its guards. Good guard play tends to make teams with aggressive ball-pressure (especially full-court) defenses look terrible.
Wisconsin eeked out an OT win over Michigan in the regular season and ousted them in the conference tourney. Their boring style of play is basically to just make you work the ball around and focus on making you take tough shots, instead of trying to get you to turn the ball over. Seems to be more effective against a team like MI.

"Havoc" against a full B1G schedule would probably be a mixed bag. Probably blow some teams out, but unlikely to get you near a title. At the moment, the B1G is a very tough conference.


Yup.  Havoc can be fun to watch but you get behind against a good team ... well, we all see what can happen.

another thing about havoc is the darn fouling.   FWIW I think they're too aggressive.  Sure they get ticky-tack fouls sometimes but damn- you out and out mug the other guy a few times you're asking to get whistled more often. Reap what you sow and all that... Even if you play the whole bench (like VCU does) and you have 10 starters (like VCU doesn't)  you're going to get killed at the line.
 
rka
2013-03-28 03:05:56 PM  
I'll just leave this here for Gopher hockey fans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flpVa3a2fhQ

/Go Sioux
 
2013-03-28 03:22:01 PM  

rka: I'll just leave this here for Gopher hockey fans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flpVa3a2fhQ

/Go Sioux


You guys are still the Sioux? :p
 
2013-03-28 04:31:22 PM  

babysealclubber: I'm shocked Shaka Smart wouldn't leave a comfy job at VCU where he can do no wrong for the frozen tundra where the facilities are older than dirt and basketball is behind hockey in the pecking order.


agreed.  hey, how did ref'ing go this year?
 
rka
2013-03-28 07:29:18 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: rka: I'll just leave this here for Gopher hockey fans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flpVa3a2fhQ

/Go Sioux

You guys are still the Sioux? :p


In 50 years you'll still see old guys in tattered Sioux jerseys.

DU fans are still flogging that Boone mascot and that was a ridiculous cartoon.
 
2013-03-28 07:35:34 PM  
To be honest, I figured that the same thing would happen to the Philadelphia Eagles. I sort of wanted it to for the lulz (no, I'm not an Eagles hater).

This is Exhibit A as to why you have the successor lined up before you act on a firing. Sure it's unethical and, in some places, possibly illegal (not in terms of statutes, but bylaws, codes of conduct, etc.), but this is sports we're talking about. That has never stopped anybody before.
 
2013-03-28 07:36:00 PM  
Holy Christ, Shaka Smart makes $1.5 million dollars??

For what?
 
2013-03-28 08:32:31 PM  
Where's all the outrage?  Where's Dick Vitale scolding Minnesota for firing a black coach?  Where are the former coaches saying it will set the program back 10 years?
 
2013-03-28 10:01:54 PM  
First of all:  Firing Tubby?  Right move.  While the team always had one or two big wins every year, they would always seem to follow it up by finding a way to lose to teams like Northwestern.  Smith recruited great athletes, but they would never improve.  And Big Ten teams figured out that all you have to do is play zone against them, and they'll get completely confused.  I really don't get the argument from the national folks that Minnesota fans should be happy with mediocrity, because it was clear that the Gophers had plateaued there.  Yes, we know, Minnesota is cold.  So is Wisconsin, and Madison is a boring hell-hole compared to the Twin Cities, but they seem to do all right.

As for Teague, while there was the obvious tie-in with Smart from Teague's VCU days, there are lots of other coaches that Teague has ties with from his work with Villa 7.  Teague is a basketball guy.  He knows what he's looking for, and he'll get it.
 
2013-03-28 10:26:31 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: rka: I'll just leave this here for Gopher hockey fans.

You guys are still the Sioux? :p


We are, and always shall be the FIGHTING SIOUX.


/Sioux, yeah yeah!
//Fark the NCAA
 
2013-03-29 08:05:20 AM  

StRalphTheLiar: Rwa2play: From what I've heard, VCU might get an invitation to the new Big East (basketball) Conference.  So why would Shaka go up north where he'd be a jobber to the likes of Indiana, Ohio St., et. al. and instead stay so that VCU's moves to a conference where they could win it next season.

Not likely. If they wanted them, they would have invited them at the same time as Butler and Xavier.


Supposedly the decision makers in the "New (really the old) Big East" only want private schools, and are willing to treat Butler as the token non-Catholic school.  All of the rumors swirling around are for St. Louis and then Richmond or Dayton to be added.  Which makes sense, they've done a good job of having the schools clustered either on the Atlantic seaboard or in the midwest.  If/when they go to 12 the divisions will be very well grouped.

And after the ass whopping VCU gave Butler this year I'm not looking forward to them going the BE.

insano: ... At VCU he gets to be the big dog in a weak conference, make the tournament every year (either through automatic bid or record), has no pressure to win any games in the tournament, and is a revered figure.


The A-10 ended as the 7th ranked conference, and even with the loss of Butler and Xavier (and Temple and Charlotte) will be a very good conference next year.  Once Butler left the Horizon League I stopped paying attention; I will keep watching A-10 basketball next year, it's a great conference.
 
2013-03-29 09:04:05 AM  

stir22: babysealclubber: I'm shocked Shaka Smart wouldn't leave a comfy job at VCU where he can do no wrong for the frozen tundra where the facilities are older than dirt and basketball is behind hockey in the pecking order.

agreed.  hey, how did ref'ing go this year?


It was pretty good. Can't complain too much. Just one fan and one coach ejection. You?
 
2013-03-29 09:04:58 AM  

mybulkaddress: Where's all the outrage?  Where's Dick Vitale scolding Minnesota for firing a black coach?  Where are the former coaches saying it will set the program back 10 years?


In all fairness, after Tubby left UK, Billy Gillespie damn near sent the program back 50 years.
 
2013-03-30 10:33:06 PM  

babysealclubber: mybulkaddress: Where's all the outrage?  Where's Dick Vitale scolding Minnesota for firing a black coach?  Where are the former coaches saying it will set the program back 10 years?

In all fairness, after Tubby left UK, Billy Gillespie damn near sent the program back 50 years.


True.
 
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