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(WPTV)   You just finished serving overseas for the U.S. Marine Corps. How does your hometown thank you? By sending you a citation to remove the American flag outside your home   (wptv.com) divider line 145
    More: Florida, U.S. Marine Corps, The Town, building permits  
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9034 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Mar 2013 at 9:17 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-28 10:10:51 AM  
Rules can be dumb, but your service doesn't mean you don't have to follow them. You don't like it? Organize your community to change the rules.
 
2013-03-28 10:11:49 AM  

genepool lifeboat: Someone already mentioned it's an issue with the pole, not the flag.  You can't just build a structure in your yard without a permit, but more than likely he can get a flag holder that attaches to his house without issue.  We thank you for your service and all but don't be a douche.  Either get a building permit like anyone else would or find a legal way to fly the flag.


Yeah.  I thought he swore an oath to the constitution and its laws (and therefore the laws that flow from it) rather than a piece of cloth.

he's a douche
 
2013-03-28 10:13:31 AM  
I was really hoping for another HOA thread. They are usually very enlightening.
 
2013-03-28 10:15:41 AM  
"It's disgusting that anybody should have to go through that. I fought for the flag, now I'm paying for the flag," said Schaffer.


Exactly 100% wrong.

You fought for the idea of a free country of laws as opposed to anarchy.  It's disingenuous to come home and claim that the laws don't apply to you.

Either find a way to fly the flag w/o constructing a pole, ask for a reduction in the permit penalty, or just suck up and pay it.

Whichever you choose, please STFU.  We're appreciative of your sacrifice and effort but aside from your paycheck, your benefits and an occasional free coffee that's where it should end.
 
2013-03-28 10:16:29 AM  

i upped my meds-up yours: /wtf is a Hypoluxo anyway?


Well along with Hermes Pan, they produced the best Ministry albums, imho.
 
2013-03-28 10:17:41 AM  
Because he's a soldier he shouldn't have to follow the law?  The law he went over to defend?
So sick of the soldier worship in this country.
 
2013-03-28 10:19:28 AM  
The Town of Hypoluxo....


Move to Hyperluxo.

They love big flags there.
 
2013-03-28 10:21:27 AM  
America: more concerned with everybody getting along than doing what's right.
 
2013-03-28 10:21:58 AM  

The Muthaship: trey101: fark YOU, get the fark out of this country you shiatbag.

I know, I know.  It's a sensitive topic.

But to me, having a mohawk is just a selfish act and not fitting for a selfless servant of his country like the fine fighting man in the article.  When you have a mohawk, you are effectively preventing anyone who spends any amount of time with you in public places from having that rocking, 'look how much of a f*ck I don't give" hairstyle.  Because everyone knows that two people with mohawks cannot hang out together in public.  It simply isn't done.  By wearing his hair thusly, he either denies others the unmitigated pleasure of his company, or forecloses their ability to wear their hair in the widely accepted fashion that denotes true individuality.


he was in war you farking loser.
 
2013-03-28 10:22:37 AM  

sodomizer: America: more concerned with everybody getting along than doing what's right.


Making sure the pole is placed properly and won't fall down and kill someone IS what's right.
 
2013-03-28 10:23:30 AM  
$1000 for a building permit to put a flag pole?
 
2013-03-28 10:23:30 AM  

trey101: The Muthaship: trey101: fark YOU, get the fark out of this country you shiatbag.

I know, I know.  It's a sensitive topic.

But to me, having a mohawk is just a selfish act and not fitting for a selfless servant of his country like the fine fighting man in the article.  When you have a mohawk, you are effectively preventing anyone who spends any amount of time with you in public places from having that rocking, 'look how much of a f*ck I don't give" hairstyle.  Because everyone knows that two people with mohawks cannot hang out together in public.  It simply isn't done.  By wearing his hair thusly, he either denies others the unmitigated pleasure of his company, or forecloses their ability to wear their hair in the widely accepted fashion that denotes true individuality.

he was in war you farking loser.


Soldiers defend the country.  Civilians make the country worth defending.  He isn't special.
 
2013-03-28 10:23:38 AM  

stonicus: Because he's a soldier he shouldn't have to follow the law?  The law he went over to defend?
So sick of the soldier worship in this country.


straight out of the mouth of someone that has no regard for what the people in our military do.
 
2013-03-28 10:25:35 AM  
Let's see here, a flag pole held up by concrete would be considered a permanent structure.  Permanent structures need a building permit to erect.  So obviously he needs a permit.   He would also need permission from the landowner since he is renting, as you just can't modify it as it's not your property. So none story.

Oh he was in the military and is whining because it might cost him $1,000.  Well aren't you just special and it's an outrage you have to follow the rules everyone else has to.  To the newspapers.
 
2013-03-28 10:25:47 AM  
just knock of support for the flag
the american flag represents a dead idea
here we have rules about planting your ideas in your front yard
it costs money and paperwork needs to be submitted to ask permission.

thank the gods this dude didn't give his life for the politicians
what a waste that is
 
2013-03-28 10:31:11 AM  

trey101: stonicus: Because he's a soldier he shouldn't have to follow the law?  The law he went over to defend?
So sick of the soldier worship in this country.

straight out of the mouth of someone that has no regard for what the people in our military do.


Because someone served in the military, he gets to break the laws.   Yes/No?
 
2013-03-28 10:33:23 AM  

trey101: The Muthaship: trey101: fark YOU, get the fark out of this country you shiatbag.

I know, I know.  It's a sensitive topic.

But to me, having a mohawk is just a selfish act and not fitting for a selfless servant of his country like the fine fighting man in the article.  When you have a mohawk, you are effectively preventing anyone who spends any amount of time with you in public places from having that rocking, 'look how much of a f*ck I don't give" hairstyle.  Because everyone knows that two people with mohawks cannot hang out together in public.  It simply isn't done.  By wearing his hair thusly, he either denies others the unmitigated pleasure of his company, or forecloses their ability to wear their hair in the widely accepted fashion that denotes true individuality.

he was in war you farking loser.


Yeah...and? That makes him above the law how, exactly? Plenty of decent people have worn the uniform and went into harm's way, and so have plenty of assholes. I've known rapists, wife beaters, child abusers, white supremacists and various other assholes that have worn the uniform in wartime too(and no, I'm not saying this guy is any of those). Should they be excused for being farkwits just because they wore a uniform and fired a weapon in anger? Having fought in a war means exactly jack shiat. They're HUMAN, not demi gods.
 
2013-03-28 10:35:05 AM  
Let me guess.  Thirty years from now when they're drumming up support for the next fools crusade, they're going to tell people how everyone hated and disrespected the veterans of this war and how they made all of them take down the flags in front of their homes.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.
 
2013-03-28 10:36:58 AM  

The Muthaship: A flag pole is a structure?

Okay.

The mohawk limited my sympathy.


=============

It's common for towns to abuse the building permit process to generate revenue, but if you've ever lived next to someone who damaged your property because of some half-assed DIY project, you'd be thankful for building codes.
 
2013-03-28 10:41:00 AM  
Put up tons of flagpoles, never needed a permit before. In Michigan, why you can just stick em in the ground and call it a day. I watched my dad put up flagpoles for years, helping him at his knee when I was a kid, have a lot of experience. I can do all the work myself, just look at how good I did this one. Looks good, don't it? The building department says I just need a letter from an engineer, so I already have it written, just sign here.

What do you mean? I just need a letter. What's the problem? I'll pay you for your time to come out here, what was it, about a 10 minute drive, right?
 
2013-03-28 10:42:34 AM  

sxacho: mod3072: Schaffer said because he is renting the house, he has to have a third party contractor come in to apply for the permit, which could cost him nearly $1,000.

It looks like the real issue here is that someone didn't get their graft contractors fee. I think it's obvious that a flagpole is a deathtrap just waiting to spring unless you pay some guy $1,000 to apply for a permit for you.

//gee, I wonder who filed that anonymous complaint? Surely not the guy who would have made $1,000 for filling out a form.

My guess is the complaint came from a neighbor who watched him pour 2 bags of concrete mix into a small hole, then attach the pole. My second guess is that for the wind load on the flag pole, he didn't pour nearly enough concrete and the contractor will have to increase the footing size so the flag pole won't turn into a javelin or otherwise predict in unexpected ways in the next hurricane.

The $1000 fee is likely due to a quadruple permit fee because it's an after-the-fact permit. It's a bit of a disincentive to discourage people from doing unlicensed shiat without permits. This penalty fee can and probably will be waived by the local building official. Especially considering now the derpers having jurisdiction have been notified.

But as for having to hire a contractor, this is absolutely correct and reasonable. As a renter, you can't go making structural improvements or whatever to property that isn't yours. Even the homeowner can't pull the permit, probably, because he's not living in the home.


The article is a little light on details, although the way I read it is that the $1,000 is what it would cost to have a third party apply for the permit. It doesn't say anything about having a contractor do the work, just about applying for the permit. Knowing the diligence and integrity in today's news media, I'm sure that is completely accurate (or maybe I just misread it). I'll just assume that it is supposed to say that it would cost $1,000 to have a contractor install it. I don't have a big problem with the city or the surrounding property owners wanting it to be done properly, but we are talking about a flag pole. I would think it would be very easy to find acceptable anchoring specs, and as long as he can show that he followed them, I don't think he should be forced to hire someone else to do it. It's not rocket science.

All that being said, there is a lot of doucheyness in the article as well. The guy should have gotten a permit. If he didn't know he needed one until after the fact (I certainly wouldn't have thought that I would need one for a flag pole), I think that trying to work with the city to resolve the issue would have been a lot better than whining to the media about being persecuted, and shame on the news station for trying to turn this into an outrage. Then again, maybe he had been working with the city and they were being assholes too. We'll probably never know the whole story. That's the problem with these local "This is an outrage!!" stories. You never really know for sure who is working in good faith to resolve an issue and who is being a dick.
 
2013-03-28 10:43:30 AM  

Fissile: The Muthaship: A flag pole is a structure?

Okay.

The mohawk limited my sympathy.

=============

It's common for towns to abuse the building permit process to generate revenue, but if you've ever lived next to someone who damaged your property because of some half-assed DIY project, you'd be thankful for building codes.


I am okay with building codes.  And a flagpole installation definitely needs to be inspected.  Just struck me as an odd classification.

/more than that, I was just having a little fun
//turns out, very little....
 
2013-03-28 10:44:17 AM  
I'm guessing no one watched the video, or else there would be more discussion of the Tea Party flag* that he's also flying under the US flag.

*aka Gadsden Flag
 
2013-03-28 10:46:16 AM  
Move out of Florida, case solved. You're surrounded by a bunch of retired old angry assholes from New York who have nothing to do but make their relatives, and everyone within 5 miles miserable.
 
2013-03-28 10:51:40 AM  

mod3072: The article is a little light on details, although the way I read it is that the $1,000 is what it would cost to have a third party apply for the permit.


I just checked out Palm Beach County's permit fees. I couldn't find flag poles listed, but freestanding signs are $150. And I confirmed that it's a quad fee for an after-the-fact permit. So say $600 for a building permit.
 
2013-03-28 10:55:33 AM  

kendelrio: When I was a soldier in the core, our drill sergeants made us pledge allegiance to the FLAG every night before we went to bed and when we woke up. We sweated and bled and some of us died to let that little peace of canvas flutter in the wind. If this marine want's to fly his flag, he shouldn't have to get no stupid permit. It is his write as someone who has blked and DIED for his flag to fly it!

/Stupid civilians!
/sniper


kendelrio: bled.


Really? I thought that "blked" was the best part of that post. Yes, you had the "core," the apostrophe misuse, bad grammar, misspelling and that lovely bit of utter illogic at the end to hit all of the major troll categories in rapid succession, but out of it all it was that bizarre mystery word at the end that had the most potential to completely derail a thread while everyone tries to figure out what it is supposed to mean.
 
2013-03-28 10:57:56 AM  

trey101: fark YOU, get the fark out of this country you shiatbag.


trey101: do you douche regularly?


trey101: straight out of the mouth of someone that has no regard for what the people in our military do.


I think we found his Fark handle.
 
2013-03-28 10:59:24 AM  

trey101: straight out of the mouth of someone that has no regard for what the people in our military do.


what do the people in the US military do ?
attack or defend ?

if you claim defend... defend what ?

Think before you answer
..
or just flame on flamer
 
2013-03-28 10:59:48 AM  

stonicus: sodomizer: America: more concerned with everybody getting along than doing what's right.

Making sure the pole is placed properly and won't fall down and kill someone IS what's right.


Or take out power lines.

Or fall and block the roadway.

Or fall and rip open a gas line.

Building codes: why our shiat doesn't fall completely down when there is an earthquake.
 
2013-03-28 11:03:46 AM  

probesport: You should always be allowed to put a large something identifying your career choice on your house.

For me, I have a giant 30' whiteboard that I draw detailed project plans on so joggers can see the synergies that I propose.


Dude loves the flag and loves the country.

/Not sure if jealous or troll
 
2013-03-28 11:06:16 AM  

Slartibartfaster: what do the people in the US military do ?
attack or defend ?

if you claim defend... defend what ?

Think before you answer
..
or just flame on flamer


I got this one trey.

Screw you, you peace loving hippy communist.

How did I do, trey?
 
2013-03-28 11:07:38 AM  

NightOwl2255: How did I do, trey?


Needs more profanity.

/and a mohawk.
 
2013-03-28 11:10:19 AM  
My father has one like this:

knoxvilletennesseerealestateblog.com

No permits needed. No complaints from neighbors.
 
2013-03-28 11:16:07 AM  

Stinkyy: probesport: You should always be allowed to put a large something identifying your career choice on your house.

For me, I have a giant 30' whiteboard that I draw detailed project plans on so joggers can see the synergies that I propose.

Dude loves the flag and loves the country.

/Not sure if jealous or troll


Neither, just humor. I have a large flag hanging from my 1920's house. I am murca as well.
 
2013-03-28 11:17:07 AM  

give me doughnuts: My father has one like this:

[knoxvilletennesseerealestateblog.com image 774x559]

No permits needed. No complaints from neighbors.


Exactly, problem solved.  He still should run it by the landlord first.
 
2013-03-28 11:18:17 AM  

give me doughnuts: My father has one like this:

[knoxvilletennesseerealestateblog.com image 774x559]

No permits needed. No complaints from neighbors.


Needs more brick.
 
2013-03-28 11:18:40 AM  
The law is the law dumbass. You know that thing you killed brown people overseas to protect?
 
2013-03-28 11:19:56 AM  

The Muthaship: NightOwl2255: How did I do, trey?

Needs more profanity.

/and a mohawk.


Fark you!

todayontoday.com
 
2013-03-28 11:23:51 AM  
Perfect.
 
2013-03-28 11:30:01 AM  

sxacho: mod3072: The article is a little light on details, although the way I read it is that the $1,000 is what it would cost to have a third party apply for the permit.

I just checked out Palm Beach County's permit fees. I couldn't find flag poles listed, but freestanding signs are $150. And I confirmed that it's a quad fee for an after-the-fact permit. So say $600 for a building permit.


I originally read the sentence I quoted to mean that hiring the contractor would cost $1,000, not that the permit would cost that much. Looking at it again, it could be interpreted either way.
 
2013-03-28 11:37:26 AM  
As someone who has actually installed flag poles for a living, its not that hard to get it right.  Provided the pole is ~15-25 feet, a 3ftX1.5ft hole with a 2ft riser is all that's needed.  Takes less than 10 minutes from start to finish (not counting the concrete's curing time of ~12-48 hrs depending on temp, in Flordia I'd say 12).

Really simple -- Dig hole, fill the hole about 3\4 up, place 5 gallon bucket with bottom cut out bottom up over the hole, insert the pole (use steel or heavy gauge aluminum), continue filling up until the concrete reaches the top of the bucket.  Come back the next day and cut off the bucket and you're done.  That's the cheap and easy way.  You put the concrete in before and jog it up and down a bit so concrete gets inside the pole and makes it stronger.   Even better is to do the same thing but drive 4+ 4ft+ stakes in the ground in the hole and weld the pole to them.  And obviously, get the damn ground flagged ahead of time -- its free so there's no reason not to.  Unless this guy put up a 40ft pole in 2ft of concrete, I don't see the problem here.  We can't really tell the size of the pole from the pictures, but we can tell that the pole is crooked.  Operating a level isn't very hard....makes me think it was installed poorly.

To the permit = safety drones -- Pulling a permit ahead of time doesn't stop contractors\homeowners\anybody from doingshoddy work...just sayin.  Most permits are just a way for the local government to keep tabs on everything or a city funding racket, very few permits are for safety.  Some place you have to pull a permit to install window blinds...if that's the case, then large flatscreen tv's should require a permit since a large flatscreen improperly installed is many, many times more dangerous than improperly installed blinds.  Ever hear of blinds falling down and killing someone?  Didn't think so.

Also, where I live, the homeowner has to pull the permits for renters.  I work for a guy who owns a ton of hud houses and do some his repairs and fixes -- mainly fence work and welding.  Unless the owner gives permission, renters can't do anything -- though I'm sure that depends on the lease\contract.
 
2013-03-28 11:43:07 AM  

susler: You fought for the idea of a free country of laws as opposed to anarchy. It's disingenuous to come home and claim that the laws don't apply to you.


We also have a long history of civilly disobeying stupid/unjust laws.
 
2013-03-28 11:51:37 AM  

85blue: SnarfVader: 85blue: genepool lifeboat: Someone already mentioned it's an issue with the pole, not the flag.  You can't just build a structure in your yard without a permit, but more than likely he can get a flag holder that attaches to his house without issue.  We thank you for your service and all but don't be a douche.  Either get a building permit like anyone else would or find a legal way to fly the flag.


Yeah, don't be a douche.Fork up $1,000 so you can keep that pole.It is not like $1000 is a lot of money to a veteran.
The nerve of this guy installing such an eyesore..did you see it?I am shocked.He should have known better.Honestly, who would really expect to be able to fly his nations flag after fighting overseas?This guy is clearly a troublemaker or some sort of disgruntled vet.

If only there were some program available to this veteran to help him get his own home where he could erect his own flag pole...

Because vets get what they are promised to begin with...Have you ever been to the VA?It is a good entity but there are guys there who are still trying to get jobs and housing since fighting in Vietnam.Oh and individual services are now cancelling the financial aid soldiers expected to have after serving.


Although you are right about the VA hospital, that has Fark all to do with this. My family is full of vets, from WWII to Korea to Vietnam to the Gulf War. My great uncle, a WWII Marine, had a flag pole. He also had a permit for it and had his own home and wasn't a renter. And the program I was referring to (also the one I am using) is the VA Home Loan program. If he is renting a house, he has an income and he can afford to buy one with the VA Home Loan program, which last time I checked, was still an option for vets. He needs to suck it up and get a permit for his flag pole or find his own place. He's 24. He still has a lot of things to learn in life.
 
2013-03-28 11:52:49 AM  
When he's older he'll have stories about people spitting on him at the airport.
 
2013-03-28 11:59:17 AM  
skeevy420:

Really simple -- Dig hole, fill the hole about 3\4 up, place 5 gallon bucket with bottom cut out bottom up over the hole, insert the pole (use steel or heavy gauge aluminum), continue filling up until the concrete reaches the top of the bucket.  Come back the next day and cut off the bucket and you're done.  That's the cheap and easy way.  You put the concrete in before and jog it up and down a bit so concrete gets inside the pole and makes it stronger.

You don't mention plumbing the pole, so I assume you just put it in at a crazy-ass angle nearly touching the ground so as to facilitate easier changing of the flag.

420 Flagpole Installers: We're high so your flag doesn't have to be.
 
2013-03-28 12:08:59 PM  

The Only Sane Man In Florida: Initial reaction; must be a HOA.
After I read it; Nope, just Hypoluxo.

Seriously though, I want to meet the prick that reported their neighbor for such a thing.


Bet it was his landlord.
 
2013-03-28 12:11:28 PM  

SnarfVader: 85blue: SnarfVader: 85blue: genepool lifeboat: Someone already mentioned it's an issue with the pole, not the flag.  You can't just build a structure in your yard without a permit, but more than likely he can get a flag holder that attaches to his house without issue.  We thank you for your service and all but don't be a douche.  Either get a building permit like anyone else would or find a legal way to fly the flag.


Yeah, don't be a douche.Fork up $1,000 so you can keep that pole.It is not like $1000 is a lot of money to a veteran.
The nerve of this guy installing such an eyesore..did you see it?I am shocked.He should have known better.Honestly, who would really expect to be able to fly his nations flag after fighting overseas?This guy is clearly a troublemaker or some sort of disgruntled vet.

If only there were some program available to this veteran to help him get his own home where he could erect his own flag pole...

Because vets get what they are promised to begin with...Have you ever been to the VA?It is a good entity but there are guys there who are still trying to get jobs and housing since fighting in Vietnam.Oh and individual services are now cancelling the financial aid soldiers expected to have after serving.

Although you are right about the VA hospital, that has Fark all to do with this. My family is full of vets, from WWII to Korea to Vietnam to the Gulf War. My great uncle, a WWII Marine, had a flag pole. He also had a permit for it and had his own home and wasn't a renter. And the program I was referring to (also the one I am using) is the VA Home Loan program. If he is renting a house, he has an income and he can afford to buy one with the VA Home Loan program, which last time I checked, was still an option for vets. He needs to suck it up and get a permit for his flag pole or find his own place. He's 24. He still has a lot of things to learn in life.


A flag pole is not really a big deal.You are right and the town is technically right(the best kind of right).But nickel and diming over a broken law that is not hurting anyone is bit ridiculous.He even could even remove the flag when he moves.It isn't as though the flag is huge or towering above the surrounding area.The person who anonymously reported him is a real life troll.It takes less effort to walk to your neighbor and say ,"Just so you know you will need a permit for that," then to pester city hall or cops about it.The soldier may be confused as to what he fought for but he did fight.And it isn't asking much to let him keep it even if he is technically wrong.
 
2013-03-28 12:21:19 PM  

85blue: But nickel and diming over a broken law that is not hurting anyone is bit ridiculous.


Has the pole or its foundation been designed to account for wind loads?
 
2013-03-28 12:22:26 PM  
The pole wasn't tall enough to require a permit.
 
2013-03-28 12:23:27 PM  
When I was an airman in the navy, our scout leader made us lemon pledge to the TABLE every day before we woke up and when we went to bed.  We  dried and infused and some of us lived to let that big piece of hickory smoked bacon sag in stagnant air.  If this sailor wants to fly a chicken breast, he should have to get a declaration of independence from the US.  It is his love as someone who has B*Y^)GYed and put lotion on his back for his chicken breast to sail it!
 
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