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(WPTV)   You just finished serving overseas for the U.S. Marine Corps. How does your hometown thank you? By sending you a citation to remove the American flag outside your home   (wptv.com) divider line 145
    More: Florida, U.S. Marine Corps, The Town, building permits  
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9014 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Mar 2013 at 9:17 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



145 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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Archived thread
 
2013-03-28 07:55:38 AM  
dude. become a monk.  sure America is great and all.  but are you on METH or SOMETHING??
 
2013-03-28 08:25:04 AM  
"'It's digesting that anybody should have to go through that. I fought for the flag, now I'm paying for the flag,' said Schaffer."

Ahahahahahaha!
 
2013-03-28 08:49:00 AM  
Stay classy Florida. Oh wait, you were never classy.
 
2013-03-28 09:13:53 AM  
Service guarantees exemption from municipal building codes!

Would you like to know more?
 
2013-03-28 09:20:56 AM  
A flag pole is a structure?

Okay.

The mohawk limited my sympathy.
 
2013-03-28 09:21:56 AM  
This is such a non-issue.  Get a permit.
 
2013-03-28 09:22:17 AM  
You should always be allowed to put a large something identifying your career choice on your house.

For me, I have a giant 30' whiteboard that I draw detailed project plans on so joggers can see the synergies that I propose.
 
2013-03-28 09:22:18 AM  
At first I was like "You didn't fight for the flag, you fought for the nation of laws for which it stands."

And then I read that he could've flown the flag, if he just got a building permit for the pole.  And I was all like "FARK THAT!  I hate idiots making you get permits for every stupid thing."

And then I was like "But if that pole isn't properly built, it could just snap in a strong wind and kill someone or ruin someone's house.  And I guess that should probably require a permit."

But then I remembered we were talking about the flag, SO I GOT OUTRAGED!
 
2013-03-28 09:23:04 AM  
"It's disgusting that anybody should have to go through that. I fought for the flag, now I'm paying for the flag," said Schaffer.

This phrase is quite possibly the apex of human stupidity.
 
2013-03-28 09:23:46 AM  

Sybarite: Service guarantees exemption from municipal building codes!

Would you like to know more?



I saw that.  Thought it summed it up nicely.
 
2013-03-28 09:25:07 AM  
The issue is not with the flag, but the pole...
 
2013-03-28 09:25:42 AM  
Schaffer said because he is renting the house, he has to have a third party contractor come in to apply for the permit, which could cost him nearly $1,000.

It looks like the real issue here is that someone didn't get their graft contractors fee. I think it's obvious that a flagpole is a deathtrap just waiting to spring unless you pay some guy $1,000 to apply for a permit for you.

//gee, I wonder who filed that anonymous complaint? Surely not the guy who would have made $1,000 for filling out a form.
 
2013-03-28 09:25:52 AM  
I doubt Mr. Schaffer will read this but I'll keep a flag up all summer in place of one he can't.
 
2013-03-28 09:27:49 AM  
It's a sucky looking old-fashioned flag anyways, surely with all these hipster designers we've been breeding we could come up with a better looking one now?

I'd like something that shows the world what we really stand for, and how incredibly superior we are to every other nation, and frankly using the same color scheme as those low-life French doesn't cut it.

For a start, bigger. We're a big country with big people, maybe the world's biggest. So we need a bigger flag. I'm thinking 4ft by 8ft at it's smallest (lapel pin).

For colors I prefer the MIA flag or skull & crossbones. They just looks badass and send the right message abroad.

As for design, how about a football player kicking a nuclear bomb into the middle-east with SPEAK AMERICAN OR DIE written across the top?

I'm open to other suggestions, sure.
 
2013-03-28 09:28:52 AM  
You know who else had something against poles?
 
2013-03-28 09:29:14 AM  

The Muthaship: A flag pole is a structure?

Okay.

The mohawk limited my sympathy.


fark YOU, get the fark out of this country you shiatbag.
 
2013-03-28 09:29:37 AM  
This is because the United States is a Communist country...where you have to getr ythe government's permission to do "anythiung".
 
2013-03-28 09:30:35 AM  
Someone already mentioned it's an issue with the pole, not the flag.  You can't just build a structure in your yard without a permit, but more than likely he can get a flag holder that attaches to his house without issue.  We thank you for your service and all but don't be a douche.  Either get a building permit like anyone else would or find a legal way to fly the flag.
 
2013-03-28 09:30:42 AM  

abfalter: This is such a non-issue.  Get a permit.


But he was in the MILITARY! He's one of the most heroic heroes that ever heroically heroed!!! How DARE you expect him to be held to the same standards as everyone else!!

Members of the military constantly demanding preferential treatment is getting really tiring.
 
2013-03-28 09:30:55 AM  

Frizbone: This is because the United States is a Communist country...where you have to getr ythe government's permission to do "anythiung".


That would be "authoritarian".  Communism has to do with economics.
 
2013-03-28 09:31:01 AM  

REO-Weedwagon: "It's disgusting that anybody should have to go through that. I fought for the flag, now I'm paying for the flag," said Schaffer.

This phrase is quite possibly the apex of human stupidity.


do you douche regularly?
 
2013-03-28 09:32:43 AM  
It's not an issue with the flag. It's the pole. Be reasonable and get a permit for it. The code is just there to ensure the pole isn't too large for the neighborhood.
 
2013-03-28 09:34:00 AM  
This is an awesome thread, I can feel the rage building - may need a permit.
 
2013-03-28 09:37:00 AM  
I'm surprised at all the military-hate in this thread.

Some days I'm just proud to be an American. Thank you, guys.
 
2013-03-28 09:37:01 AM  

trey101: fark YOU, get the fark out of this country you shiatbag.


I know, I know.  It's a sensitive topic.

But to me, having a mohawk is just a selfish act and not fitting for a selfless servant of his country like the fine fighting man in the article.  When you have a mohawk, you are effectively preventing anyone who spends any amount of time with you in public places from having that rocking, 'look how much of a f*ck I don't give" hairstyle.  Because everyone knows that two people with mohawks cannot hang out together in public.  It simply isn't done.  By wearing his hair thusly, he either denies others the unmitigated pleasure of his company, or forecloses their ability to wear their hair in the widely accepted fashion that denotes true individuality.
 
2013-03-28 09:37:59 AM  
The Town of Hypoluxo requires flag pole permit

Army vet: utters a few choice epithets and gets a flag pole permit.

Marine vet: alerts Fox News and goes Full American Butthurt.

/wtf is a Hypoluxo anyway?
 
2013-03-28 09:39:25 AM  
Dude you're a veteran not above the law.  You are still subject to the same laws as everyone else.  If they're stupid laws, fight them, but bringing up "I'm a veteran and look what they're doing to me." makes you sound like a little whinny biatch.  In the words of his platoon leader "Here's a straw, now suck it the fark up."
 
2013-03-28 09:39:29 AM  

YoOjo: It's a sucky looking old-fashioned flag anyways, surely with all these hipster designers we've been breeding we could come up with a better looking one now?

I'd like something that shows the world what we really stand for, and how incredibly superior we are to every other nation, and frankly using the same color scheme as those low-life French doesn't cut it.

For a start, bigger. We're a big country with big people, maybe the world's biggest. So we need a bigger flag. I'm thinking 4ft by 8ft at it's smallest (lapel pin).

For colors I prefer the MIA flag or skull & crossbones. They just looks badass and send the right message abroad.

As for design, how about a football player kicking a nuclear bomb into the middle-east with SPEAK AMERICAN OR DIE written across the top?

I'm open to other suggestions, sure.


Something like this?

www.on-parole.com

/Dude, get the permit.
//Or just find an alternate method that doesn't require one.
///Or run for office so you can change the law.
 
2013-03-28 09:40:04 AM  

i upped my meds-up yours: The Town of Hypoluxo requires flag pole permit

Army vet: utters a few choice epithets and gets a flag pole permit.

Marine vet: alerts Fox News and goes Full American Butthurt.

/wtf is a Hypoluxo anyway?


"Dim bulb"?
 
2013-03-28 09:40:30 AM  
When I was a soldier in the core, our drill sergeants made us pledge allegiance to the FLAG every night before we went to bed and when we woke up. We sweated and bled and some of us died to let that little peace of canvas flutter in the wind. If this marine want's to fly his flag, he shouldn't have to get no stupid permit. It is his write as someone who has blked and DIED for his flag to fly it!

/Stupid civilians!
/sniper
 
2013-03-28 09:41:41 AM  
bled.
 
2013-03-28 09:42:35 AM  

i upped my meds-up yours: The Town of Hypoluxo requires flag pole permit

Army vet: utters a few choice epithets and gets a flag pole permit.

Marine vet: alerts Fox News and goes Full American Butthurt.

/wtf is a Hypoluxo anyway?


Air Force vet: Shrugs, makes a sad face, and says, "Ok"

Navy vet: Flies the flag from the nearest tree instead.
 
2013-03-28 09:43:36 AM  

fat boy: You know who else had something against poles?


Strippers?
 
2013-03-28 09:44:37 AM  

i upped my meds-up yours: The Town of Hypoluxo requires flag pole permit

/wtf is a Hypoluxo anyway?



The Seminole Indian name for Lake Worth
 
2013-03-28 09:45:33 AM  

StrikitRich: The Seminole Indian name for Lake Worth


Was it made up by the Spanish, like 'Seminole'?
 
2013-03-28 09:46:39 AM  
He installed a flagpole at a rental residence and now his landlord is ultimately on the hook for it.  Great.  Here's the thing about the Misguided Children: they don't take a sh*t without reading the procedure for it.  I understand that he may have felt liberated by his transfer to CIVLANT, but even former military types are usually pretty rule-bound in their daily lives.

Keep fighting the good fight, Devil Dog, but save yourself the money and heartache and just get a post- or wall-mounted flag holder.
 
2013-03-28 09:48:46 AM  

YoOjo: As for design, how about a football player kicking a nuclear bomb into the middle-east with SPEAK AMERICAN OR DIE written across the top?

I'm open to other suggestions, sure.


Nah dude, that'll work.

s21.postimg.org
 
2013-03-28 09:48:49 AM  

genepool lifeboat: Someone already mentioned it's an issue with the pole, not the flag.  You can't just build a structure in your yard without a permit, but more than likely he can get a flag holder that attaches to his house without issue.  We thank you for your service and all but don't be a douche.  Either get a building permit like anyone else would or find a legal way to fly the flag.



Yeah, don't be a douche.Fork up $1,000 so you can keep that pole.It is not like $1000 is a lot of money to a veteran.
The nerve of this guy installing such an eyesore..did you see it?I am shocked.He should have known better.Honestly, who would really expect to be able to fly his nations flag after fighting overseas?This guy is clearly a troublemaker or some sort of disgruntled vet.
 
2013-03-28 09:49:03 AM  

genepool lifeboat: You can't just build a structure in your landlord's yard without a permit ....


FTFY

/ weirdest part of the story IMO, aside from the dbag complaineypants neighbor
 
2013-03-28 09:50:12 AM  
A permit to fly a flag? Why does this smack of Free Speech Zone?

You can be free in this country, but only for a limited time, in a limited space and you must pay in cold hard cash for your liberty.
 
2013-03-28 09:50:50 AM  
So, if you serve in the armed forces, rules in the "real world" don't apply to you?
 
2013-03-28 09:50:51 AM  

mod3072: Schaffer said because he is renting the house, he has to have a third party contractor come in to apply for the permit, which could cost him nearly $1,000.

It looks like the real issue here is that someone didn't get their graft contractors fee. I think it's obvious that a flagpole is a deathtrap just waiting to spring unless you pay some guy $1,000 to apply for a permit for you.

//gee, I wonder who filed that anonymous complaint? Surely not the guy who would have made $1,000 for filling out a form.


My guess is the complaint came from a neighbor who watched him pour 2 bags of concrete mix into a small hole, then attach the pole. My second guess is that for the wind load on the flag pole, he didn't pour nearly enough concrete and the contractor will have to increase the footing size so the flag pole won't turn into a javelin or otherwise predict in unexpected ways in the next hurricane.

The $1000 fee is likely due to a quadruple permit fee because it's an after-the-fact permit. It's a bit of a disincentive to discourage people from doing unlicensed shiat without permits. This penalty fee can and probably will be waived by the local building official. Especially considering now the derpers having jurisdiction have been notified.

But as for having to hire a contractor, this is absolutely correct and reasonable. As a renter, you can't go making structural improvements or whatever to property that isn't yours. Even the homeowner can't pull the permit, probably, because he's not living in the home.
 
2013-03-28 09:52:41 AM  

85blue: genepool lifeboat: Someone already mentioned it's an issue with the pole, not the flag.  You can't just build a structure in your yard without a permit, but more than likely he can get a flag holder that attaches to his house without issue.  We thank you for your service and all but don't be a douche.  Either get a building permit like anyone else would or find a legal way to fly the flag.


Yeah, don't be a douche.Fork up $1,000 so you can keep that pole.It is not like $1000 is a lot of money to a veteran.
The nerve of this guy installing such an eyesore..did you see it?I am shocked.He should have known better.Honestly, who would really expect to be able to fly his nations flag after fighting overseas?This guy is clearly a troublemaker or some sort of disgruntled vet.


If only there were some program available to this veteran to help him get his own home where he could erect his own flag pole...
 
2013-03-28 09:53:03 AM  

85blue: genepool lifeboat: Someone already mentioned it's an issue with the pole, not the flag.  You can't just build a structure in your yard without a permit, but more than likely he can get a flag holder that attaches to his house without issue.  We thank you for your service and all but don't be a douche.  Either get a building permit like anyone else would or find a legal way to fly the flag.


Yeah, don't be a douche.Fork up $1,000 so you can keep that pole.It is not like $1000 is a lot of money to a veteran.
The nerve of this guy installing such an eyesore..did you see it?I am shocked.He should have known better.Honestly, who would really expect to be able to fly his nations flag after fighting overseas?This guy is clearly a troublemaker or some sort of disgruntled vet.


Let me guess, you're a douche, too.
Didn't mean to offend.
 
2013-03-28 09:53:11 AM  

YoOjo: It's a sucky looking old-fashioned flag anyways, surely with all these hipster designers we've been breeding we could come up with a better looking one now?

I'd like something that shows the world what we really stand for, and how incredibly superior we are to every other nation, and frankly using the same color scheme as those low-life French doesn't cut it.

For a start, bigger. We're a big country with big people, maybe the world's biggest. So we need a bigger flag. I'm thinking 4ft by 8ft at it's smallest (lapel pin).

For colors I prefer the MIA flag or skull & crossbones. They just looks badass and send the right message abroad.

As for design, how about a football player kicking a nuclear bomb into the middle-east with SPEAK AMERICAN OR DIE written across the top?

I'm open to other suggestions, sure.


Time to get rid of those antiquated stars, too.  Replace each one with a titty.
 
2013-03-28 10:00:39 AM  

abfalter: This is such a non-issue.  Get a permit.


But false misguided outrage!!!!  America!!!
 
2013-03-28 10:05:01 AM  
Don't insult the flag and say that's what you were fighting for.
 
2013-03-28 10:08:17 AM  

Hermione_Granger: A permit to fly a flag? Why does this smack of Free Speech Zone?

You can be free in this country, but only for a limited time, in a limited space and you must pay in cold hard cash for your liberty.


Because the article is written specifically to spark patriotic fervor. Or at least that headline was.
 
2013-03-28 10:08:27 AM  
Initial reaction; must be a HOA.
After I read it; Nope, just Hypoluxo.

Seriously though, I want to meet the prick that reported their neighbor for such a thing.
 
2013-03-28 10:09:23 AM  

SnarfVader: 85blue: genepool lifeboat: Someone already mentioned it's an issue with the pole, not the flag.  You can't just build a structure in your yard without a permit, but more than likely he can get a flag holder that attaches to his house without issue.  We thank you for your service and all but don't be a douche.  Either get a building permit like anyone else would or find a legal way to fly the flag.


Yeah, don't be a douche.Fork up $1,000 so you can keep that pole.It is not like $1000 is a lot of money to a veteran.
The nerve of this guy installing such an eyesore..did you see it?I am shocked.He should have known better.Honestly, who would really expect to be able to fly his nations flag after fighting overseas?This guy is clearly a troublemaker or some sort of disgruntled vet.

If only there were some program available to this veteran to help him get his own home where he could erect his own flag pole...


Because vets get what they are promised to begin with...Have you ever been to the VA?It is a good entity but there are guys there who are still trying to get jobs and housing since fighting in Vietnam.Oh and individual services are now cancelling the financial aid soldiers expected to have after serving.
 
2013-03-28 10:10:51 AM  
Rules can be dumb, but your service doesn't mean you don't have to follow them. You don't like it? Organize your community to change the rules.
 
2013-03-28 10:11:49 AM  

genepool lifeboat: Someone already mentioned it's an issue with the pole, not the flag.  You can't just build a structure in your yard without a permit, but more than likely he can get a flag holder that attaches to his house without issue.  We thank you for your service and all but don't be a douche.  Either get a building permit like anyone else would or find a legal way to fly the flag.


Yeah.  I thought he swore an oath to the constitution and its laws (and therefore the laws that flow from it) rather than a piece of cloth.

he's a douche
 
2013-03-28 10:13:31 AM  
I was really hoping for another HOA thread. They are usually very enlightening.
 
2013-03-28 10:15:41 AM  
"It's disgusting that anybody should have to go through that. I fought for the flag, now I'm paying for the flag," said Schaffer.


Exactly 100% wrong.

You fought for the idea of a free country of laws as opposed to anarchy.  It's disingenuous to come home and claim that the laws don't apply to you.

Either find a way to fly the flag w/o constructing a pole, ask for a reduction in the permit penalty, or just suck up and pay it.

Whichever you choose, please STFU.  We're appreciative of your sacrifice and effort but aside from your paycheck, your benefits and an occasional free coffee that's where it should end.
 
2013-03-28 10:16:29 AM  

i upped my meds-up yours: /wtf is a Hypoluxo anyway?


Well along with Hermes Pan, they produced the best Ministry albums, imho.
 
2013-03-28 10:17:41 AM  
Because he's a soldier he shouldn't have to follow the law?  The law he went over to defend?
So sick of the soldier worship in this country.
 
2013-03-28 10:19:28 AM  
The Town of Hypoluxo....


Move to Hyperluxo.

They love big flags there.
 
2013-03-28 10:21:27 AM  
America: more concerned with everybody getting along than doing what's right.
 
2013-03-28 10:21:58 AM  

The Muthaship: trey101: fark YOU, get the fark out of this country you shiatbag.

I know, I know.  It's a sensitive topic.

But to me, having a mohawk is just a selfish act and not fitting for a selfless servant of his country like the fine fighting man in the article.  When you have a mohawk, you are effectively preventing anyone who spends any amount of time with you in public places from having that rocking, 'look how much of a f*ck I don't give" hairstyle.  Because everyone knows that two people with mohawks cannot hang out together in public.  It simply isn't done.  By wearing his hair thusly, he either denies others the unmitigated pleasure of his company, or forecloses their ability to wear their hair in the widely accepted fashion that denotes true individuality.


he was in war you farking loser.
 
2013-03-28 10:22:37 AM  

sodomizer: America: more concerned with everybody getting along than doing what's right.


Making sure the pole is placed properly and won't fall down and kill someone IS what's right.
 
2013-03-28 10:23:30 AM  
$1000 for a building permit to put a flag pole?
 
2013-03-28 10:23:30 AM  

trey101: The Muthaship: trey101: fark YOU, get the fark out of this country you shiatbag.

I know, I know.  It's a sensitive topic.

But to me, having a mohawk is just a selfish act and not fitting for a selfless servant of his country like the fine fighting man in the article.  When you have a mohawk, you are effectively preventing anyone who spends any amount of time with you in public places from having that rocking, 'look how much of a f*ck I don't give" hairstyle.  Because everyone knows that two people with mohawks cannot hang out together in public.  It simply isn't done.  By wearing his hair thusly, he either denies others the unmitigated pleasure of his company, or forecloses their ability to wear their hair in the widely accepted fashion that denotes true individuality.

he was in war you farking loser.


Soldiers defend the country.  Civilians make the country worth defending.  He isn't special.
 
2013-03-28 10:23:38 AM  

stonicus: Because he's a soldier he shouldn't have to follow the law?  The law he went over to defend?
So sick of the soldier worship in this country.


straight out of the mouth of someone that has no regard for what the people in our military do.
 
2013-03-28 10:25:35 AM  
Let's see here, a flag pole held up by concrete would be considered a permanent structure.  Permanent structures need a building permit to erect.  So obviously he needs a permit.   He would also need permission from the landowner since he is renting, as you just can't modify it as it's not your property. So none story.

Oh he was in the military and is whining because it might cost him $1,000.  Well aren't you just special and it's an outrage you have to follow the rules everyone else has to.  To the newspapers.
 
2013-03-28 10:25:47 AM  
just knock of support for the flag
the american flag represents a dead idea
here we have rules about planting your ideas in your front yard
it costs money and paperwork needs to be submitted to ask permission.

thank the gods this dude didn't give his life for the politicians
what a waste that is
 
2013-03-28 10:31:11 AM  

trey101: stonicus: Because he's a soldier he shouldn't have to follow the law?  The law he went over to defend?
So sick of the soldier worship in this country.

straight out of the mouth of someone that has no regard for what the people in our military do.


Because someone served in the military, he gets to break the laws.   Yes/No?
 
2013-03-28 10:33:23 AM  

trey101: The Muthaship: trey101: fark YOU, get the fark out of this country you shiatbag.

I know, I know.  It's a sensitive topic.

But to me, having a mohawk is just a selfish act and not fitting for a selfless servant of his country like the fine fighting man in the article.  When you have a mohawk, you are effectively preventing anyone who spends any amount of time with you in public places from having that rocking, 'look how much of a f*ck I don't give" hairstyle.  Because everyone knows that two people with mohawks cannot hang out together in public.  It simply isn't done.  By wearing his hair thusly, he either denies others the unmitigated pleasure of his company, or forecloses their ability to wear their hair in the widely accepted fashion that denotes true individuality.

he was in war you farking loser.


Yeah...and? That makes him above the law how, exactly? Plenty of decent people have worn the uniform and went into harm's way, and so have plenty of assholes. I've known rapists, wife beaters, child abusers, white supremacists and various other assholes that have worn the uniform in wartime too(and no, I'm not saying this guy is any of those). Should they be excused for being farkwits just because they wore a uniform and fired a weapon in anger? Having fought in a war means exactly jack shiat. They're HUMAN, not demi gods.
 
2013-03-28 10:35:05 AM  
Let me guess.  Thirty years from now when they're drumming up support for the next fools crusade, they're going to tell people how everyone hated and disrespected the veterans of this war and how they made all of them take down the flags in front of their homes.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.
 
2013-03-28 10:36:58 AM  

The Muthaship: A flag pole is a structure?

Okay.

The mohawk limited my sympathy.


=============

It's common for towns to abuse the building permit process to generate revenue, but if you've ever lived next to someone who damaged your property because of some half-assed DIY project, you'd be thankful for building codes.
 
2013-03-28 10:41:00 AM  
Put up tons of flagpoles, never needed a permit before. In Michigan, why you can just stick em in the ground and call it a day. I watched my dad put up flagpoles for years, helping him at his knee when I was a kid, have a lot of experience. I can do all the work myself, just look at how good I did this one. Looks good, don't it? The building department says I just need a letter from an engineer, so I already have it written, just sign here.

What do you mean? I just need a letter. What's the problem? I'll pay you for your time to come out here, what was it, about a 10 minute drive, right?
 
2013-03-28 10:42:34 AM  

sxacho: mod3072: Schaffer said because he is renting the house, he has to have a third party contractor come in to apply for the permit, which could cost him nearly $1,000.

It looks like the real issue here is that someone didn't get their graft contractors fee. I think it's obvious that a flagpole is a deathtrap just waiting to spring unless you pay some guy $1,000 to apply for a permit for you.

//gee, I wonder who filed that anonymous complaint? Surely not the guy who would have made $1,000 for filling out a form.

My guess is the complaint came from a neighbor who watched him pour 2 bags of concrete mix into a small hole, then attach the pole. My second guess is that for the wind load on the flag pole, he didn't pour nearly enough concrete and the contractor will have to increase the footing size so the flag pole won't turn into a javelin or otherwise predict in unexpected ways in the next hurricane.

The $1000 fee is likely due to a quadruple permit fee because it's an after-the-fact permit. It's a bit of a disincentive to discourage people from doing unlicensed shiat without permits. This penalty fee can and probably will be waived by the local building official. Especially considering now the derpers having jurisdiction have been notified.

But as for having to hire a contractor, this is absolutely correct and reasonable. As a renter, you can't go making structural improvements or whatever to property that isn't yours. Even the homeowner can't pull the permit, probably, because he's not living in the home.


The article is a little light on details, although the way I read it is that the $1,000 is what it would cost to have a third party apply for the permit. It doesn't say anything about having a contractor do the work, just about applying for the permit. Knowing the diligence and integrity in today's news media, I'm sure that is completely accurate (or maybe I just misread it). I'll just assume that it is supposed to say that it would cost $1,000 to have a contractor install it. I don't have a big problem with the city or the surrounding property owners wanting it to be done properly, but we are talking about a flag pole. I would think it would be very easy to find acceptable anchoring specs, and as long as he can show that he followed them, I don't think he should be forced to hire someone else to do it. It's not rocket science.

All that being said, there is a lot of doucheyness in the article as well. The guy should have gotten a permit. If he didn't know he needed one until after the fact (I certainly wouldn't have thought that I would need one for a flag pole), I think that trying to work with the city to resolve the issue would have been a lot better than whining to the media about being persecuted, and shame on the news station for trying to turn this into an outrage. Then again, maybe he had been working with the city and they were being assholes too. We'll probably never know the whole story. That's the problem with these local "This is an outrage!!" stories. You never really know for sure who is working in good faith to resolve an issue and who is being a dick.
 
2013-03-28 10:43:30 AM  

Fissile: The Muthaship: A flag pole is a structure?

Okay.

The mohawk limited my sympathy.

=============

It's common for towns to abuse the building permit process to generate revenue, but if you've ever lived next to someone who damaged your property because of some half-assed DIY project, you'd be thankful for building codes.


I am okay with building codes.  And a flagpole installation definitely needs to be inspected.  Just struck me as an odd classification.

/more than that, I was just having a little fun
//turns out, very little....
 
2013-03-28 10:44:17 AM  
I'm guessing no one watched the video, or else there would be more discussion of the Tea Party flag* that he's also flying under the US flag.

*aka Gadsden Flag
 
2013-03-28 10:46:16 AM  
Move out of Florida, case solved. You're surrounded by a bunch of retired old angry assholes from New York who have nothing to do but make their relatives, and everyone within 5 miles miserable.
 
2013-03-28 10:51:40 AM  

mod3072: The article is a little light on details, although the way I read it is that the $1,000 is what it would cost to have a third party apply for the permit.


I just checked out Palm Beach County's permit fees. I couldn't find flag poles listed, but freestanding signs are $150. And I confirmed that it's a quad fee for an after-the-fact permit. So say $600 for a building permit.
 
2013-03-28 10:55:33 AM  

kendelrio: When I was a soldier in the core, our drill sergeants made us pledge allegiance to the FLAG every night before we went to bed and when we woke up. We sweated and bled and some of us died to let that little peace of canvas flutter in the wind. If this marine want's to fly his flag, he shouldn't have to get no stupid permit. It is his write as someone who has blked and DIED for his flag to fly it!

/Stupid civilians!
/sniper


kendelrio: bled.


Really? I thought that "blked" was the best part of that post. Yes, you had the "core," the apostrophe misuse, bad grammar, misspelling and that lovely bit of utter illogic at the end to hit all of the major troll categories in rapid succession, but out of it all it was that bizarre mystery word at the end that had the most potential to completely derail a thread while everyone tries to figure out what it is supposed to mean.
 
2013-03-28 10:57:56 AM  

trey101: fark YOU, get the fark out of this country you shiatbag.


trey101: do you douche regularly?


trey101: straight out of the mouth of someone that has no regard for what the people in our military do.


I think we found his Fark handle.
 
2013-03-28 10:59:24 AM  

trey101: straight out of the mouth of someone that has no regard for what the people in our military do.


what do the people in the US military do ?
attack or defend ?

if you claim defend... defend what ?

Think before you answer
..
or just flame on flamer
 
2013-03-28 10:59:48 AM  

stonicus: sodomizer: America: more concerned with everybody getting along than doing what's right.

Making sure the pole is placed properly and won't fall down and kill someone IS what's right.


Or take out power lines.

Or fall and block the roadway.

Or fall and rip open a gas line.

Building codes: why our shiat doesn't fall completely down when there is an earthquake.
 
2013-03-28 11:03:46 AM  

probesport: You should always be allowed to put a large something identifying your career choice on your house.

For me, I have a giant 30' whiteboard that I draw detailed project plans on so joggers can see the synergies that I propose.


Dude loves the flag and loves the country.

/Not sure if jealous or troll
 
2013-03-28 11:06:16 AM  

Slartibartfaster: what do the people in the US military do ?
attack or defend ?

if you claim defend... defend what ?

Think before you answer
..
or just flame on flamer


I got this one trey.

Screw you, you peace loving hippy communist.

How did I do, trey?
 
2013-03-28 11:07:38 AM  

NightOwl2255: How did I do, trey?


Needs more profanity.

/and a mohawk.
 
2013-03-28 11:10:19 AM  
My father has one like this:

knoxvilletennesseerealestateblog.com

No permits needed. No complaints from neighbors.
 
2013-03-28 11:16:07 AM  

Stinkyy: probesport: You should always be allowed to put a large something identifying your career choice on your house.

For me, I have a giant 30' whiteboard that I draw detailed project plans on so joggers can see the synergies that I propose.

Dude loves the flag and loves the country.

/Not sure if jealous or troll


Neither, just humor. I have a large flag hanging from my 1920's house. I am murca as well.
 
2013-03-28 11:17:07 AM  

give me doughnuts: My father has one like this:

[knoxvilletennesseerealestateblog.com image 774x559]

No permits needed. No complaints from neighbors.


Exactly, problem solved.  He still should run it by the landlord first.
 
2013-03-28 11:18:17 AM  

give me doughnuts: My father has one like this:

[knoxvilletennesseerealestateblog.com image 774x559]

No permits needed. No complaints from neighbors.


Needs more brick.
 
2013-03-28 11:18:40 AM  
The law is the law dumbass. You know that thing you killed brown people overseas to protect?
 
2013-03-28 11:19:56 AM  

The Muthaship: NightOwl2255: How did I do, trey?

Needs more profanity.

/and a mohawk.


Fark you!

todayontoday.com
 
2013-03-28 11:23:51 AM  
Perfect.
 
2013-03-28 11:30:01 AM  

sxacho: mod3072: The article is a little light on details, although the way I read it is that the $1,000 is what it would cost to have a third party apply for the permit.

I just checked out Palm Beach County's permit fees. I couldn't find flag poles listed, but freestanding signs are $150. And I confirmed that it's a quad fee for an after-the-fact permit. So say $600 for a building permit.


I originally read the sentence I quoted to mean that hiring the contractor would cost $1,000, not that the permit would cost that much. Looking at it again, it could be interpreted either way.
 
2013-03-28 11:37:26 AM  
As someone who has actually installed flag poles for a living, its not that hard to get it right.  Provided the pole is ~15-25 feet, a 3ftX1.5ft hole with a 2ft riser is all that's needed.  Takes less than 10 minutes from start to finish (not counting the concrete's curing time of ~12-48 hrs depending on temp, in Flordia I'd say 12).

Really simple -- Dig hole, fill the hole about 3\4 up, place 5 gallon bucket with bottom cut out bottom up over the hole, insert the pole (use steel or heavy gauge aluminum), continue filling up until the concrete reaches the top of the bucket.  Come back the next day and cut off the bucket and you're done.  That's the cheap and easy way.  You put the concrete in before and jog it up and down a bit so concrete gets inside the pole and makes it stronger.   Even better is to do the same thing but drive 4+ 4ft+ stakes in the ground in the hole and weld the pole to them.  And obviously, get the damn ground flagged ahead of time -- its free so there's no reason not to.  Unless this guy put up a 40ft pole in 2ft of concrete, I don't see the problem here.  We can't really tell the size of the pole from the pictures, but we can tell that the pole is crooked.  Operating a level isn't very hard....makes me think it was installed poorly.

To the permit = safety drones -- Pulling a permit ahead of time doesn't stop contractors\homeowners\anybody from doingshoddy work...just sayin.  Most permits are just a way for the local government to keep tabs on everything or a city funding racket, very few permits are for safety.  Some place you have to pull a permit to install window blinds...if that's the case, then large flatscreen tv's should require a permit since a large flatscreen improperly installed is many, many times more dangerous than improperly installed blinds.  Ever hear of blinds falling down and killing someone?  Didn't think so.

Also, where I live, the homeowner has to pull the permits for renters.  I work for a guy who owns a ton of hud houses and do some his repairs and fixes -- mainly fence work and welding.  Unless the owner gives permission, renters can't do anything -- though I'm sure that depends on the lease\contract.
 
2013-03-28 11:43:07 AM  

susler: You fought for the idea of a free country of laws as opposed to anarchy. It's disingenuous to come home and claim that the laws don't apply to you.


We also have a long history of civilly disobeying stupid/unjust laws.
 
2013-03-28 11:51:37 AM  

85blue: SnarfVader: 85blue: genepool lifeboat: Someone already mentioned it's an issue with the pole, not the flag.  You can't just build a structure in your yard without a permit, but more than likely he can get a flag holder that attaches to his house without issue.  We thank you for your service and all but don't be a douche.  Either get a building permit like anyone else would or find a legal way to fly the flag.


Yeah, don't be a douche.Fork up $1,000 so you can keep that pole.It is not like $1000 is a lot of money to a veteran.
The nerve of this guy installing such an eyesore..did you see it?I am shocked.He should have known better.Honestly, who would really expect to be able to fly his nations flag after fighting overseas?This guy is clearly a troublemaker or some sort of disgruntled vet.

If only there were some program available to this veteran to help him get his own home where he could erect his own flag pole...

Because vets get what they are promised to begin with...Have you ever been to the VA?It is a good entity but there are guys there who are still trying to get jobs and housing since fighting in Vietnam.Oh and individual services are now cancelling the financial aid soldiers expected to have after serving.


Although you are right about the VA hospital, that has Fark all to do with this. My family is full of vets, from WWII to Korea to Vietnam to the Gulf War. My great uncle, a WWII Marine, had a flag pole. He also had a permit for it and had his own home and wasn't a renter. And the program I was referring to (also the one I am using) is the VA Home Loan program. If he is renting a house, he has an income and he can afford to buy one with the VA Home Loan program, which last time I checked, was still an option for vets. He needs to suck it up and get a permit for his flag pole or find his own place. He's 24. He still has a lot of things to learn in life.
 
2013-03-28 11:52:49 AM  
When he's older he'll have stories about people spitting on him at the airport.
 
2013-03-28 11:59:17 AM  
skeevy420:

Really simple -- Dig hole, fill the hole about 3\4 up, place 5 gallon bucket with bottom cut out bottom up over the hole, insert the pole (use steel or heavy gauge aluminum), continue filling up until the concrete reaches the top of the bucket.  Come back the next day and cut off the bucket and you're done.  That's the cheap and easy way.  You put the concrete in before and jog it up and down a bit so concrete gets inside the pole and makes it stronger.

You don't mention plumbing the pole, so I assume you just put it in at a crazy-ass angle nearly touching the ground so as to facilitate easier changing of the flag.

420 Flagpole Installers: We're high so your flag doesn't have to be.
 
2013-03-28 12:08:59 PM  

The Only Sane Man In Florida: Initial reaction; must be a HOA.
After I read it; Nope, just Hypoluxo.

Seriously though, I want to meet the prick that reported their neighbor for such a thing.


Bet it was his landlord.
 
2013-03-28 12:11:28 PM  

SnarfVader: 85blue: SnarfVader: 85blue: genepool lifeboat: Someone already mentioned it's an issue with the pole, not the flag.  You can't just build a structure in your yard without a permit, but more than likely he can get a flag holder that attaches to his house without issue.  We thank you for your service and all but don't be a douche.  Either get a building permit like anyone else would or find a legal way to fly the flag.


Yeah, don't be a douche.Fork up $1,000 so you can keep that pole.It is not like $1000 is a lot of money to a veteran.
The nerve of this guy installing such an eyesore..did you see it?I am shocked.He should have known better.Honestly, who would really expect to be able to fly his nations flag after fighting overseas?This guy is clearly a troublemaker or some sort of disgruntled vet.

If only there were some program available to this veteran to help him get his own home where he could erect his own flag pole...

Because vets get what they are promised to begin with...Have you ever been to the VA?It is a good entity but there are guys there who are still trying to get jobs and housing since fighting in Vietnam.Oh and individual services are now cancelling the financial aid soldiers expected to have after serving.

Although you are right about the VA hospital, that has Fark all to do with this. My family is full of vets, from WWII to Korea to Vietnam to the Gulf War. My great uncle, a WWII Marine, had a flag pole. He also had a permit for it and had his own home and wasn't a renter. And the program I was referring to (also the one I am using) is the VA Home Loan program. If he is renting a house, he has an income and he can afford to buy one with the VA Home Loan program, which last time I checked, was still an option for vets. He needs to suck it up and get a permit for his flag pole or find his own place. He's 24. He still has a lot of things to learn in life.


A flag pole is not really a big deal.You are right and the town is technically right(the best kind of right).But nickel and diming over a broken law that is not hurting anyone is bit ridiculous.He even could even remove the flag when he moves.It isn't as though the flag is huge or towering above the surrounding area.The person who anonymously reported him is a real life troll.It takes less effort to walk to your neighbor and say ,"Just so you know you will need a permit for that," then to pester city hall or cops about it.The soldier may be confused as to what he fought for but he did fight.And it isn't asking much to let him keep it even if he is technically wrong.
 
2013-03-28 12:21:19 PM  

85blue: But nickel and diming over a broken law that is not hurting anyone is bit ridiculous.


Has the pole or its foundation been designed to account for wind loads?
 
2013-03-28 12:22:26 PM  
The pole wasn't tall enough to require a permit.
 
2013-03-28 12:23:27 PM  
When I was an airman in the navy, our scout leader made us lemon pledge to the TABLE every day before we woke up and when we went to bed.  We  dried and infused and some of us lived to let that big piece of hickory smoked bacon sag in stagnant air.  If this sailor wants to fly a chicken breast, he should have to get a declaration of independence from the US.  It is his love as someone who has B*Y^)GYed and put lotion on his back for his chicken breast to sail it!
 
2013-03-28 12:25:15 PM  
farted
 
2013-03-28 12:25:45 PM  

85blue: A flag pole is not really a big deal.You are right and the town is technically right(the best kind of right).But nickel and diming over a broken law that is not hurting anyone is bit ridiculous.He even could even remove the flag when he moves.It isn't as though the flag is huge or towering above the surrounding area.The person who anonymously reported him is a real life troll.It takes less effort to walk to your neighbor and say ,"Just so you know you will need a permit for that," then to pester city hall or cops about it.The soldier may be confused as to what he fought for but he did fight.And it isn't asking much to let him keep it even if he is technically wrong.


And it shouldn't have been a big deal. He made it one. That's the problem I have with this Marine.

FTFA: The Town of Hypoluxo building department official said normally a resident has 30 days to comply with a citation. In this case, the town will try to work with Schaffer to make sure he has every opportunity to fly his flag.

The city is going to work with the guy. He didn't need to turn this into a "ZOMG! They won't let me fly my flag!" situation.
 
2013-03-28 12:25:55 PM  

Gordon Bennett: kendelrio: When I was a soldier in the core, our drill sergeants made us pledge allegiance to the FLAG every night before we went to bed and when we woke up. We sweated and bled and some of us died to let that little peace of canvas flutter in the wind. If this marine want's to fly his flag, he shouldn't have to get no stupid permit. It is his write as someone who has blked and DIED for his flag to fly it!

/Stupid civilians!
/sniper

kendelrio: bled.

Really? I thought that "blked" was the best part of that post. Yes, you had the "core," the apostrophe misuse, bad grammar, misspelling and that lovely bit of utter illogic at the end to hit all of the major troll categories in rapid succession, but out of it all it was that bizarre mystery word at the end that had the most potential to completely derail a thread while everyone tries to figure out what it is supposed to mean.


Ya, sometimes you feel the need to tweak until you mess it up.

Surprised I haven't gotten any bites with the "core", "marines" and "soldier". Figured this was ripe breeding grounds for the elusive bites.

Ah well. Next time.....
 
2013-03-28 12:26:08 PM  

85blue: A flag pole is not really a big deal.You are right and the town is technically right(the best kind of right).But nickel and diming over a broken law that is not hurting anyone is bit ridiculous.


It's not hurting anyone... yet.  When it falls and lands on a car or a person, will you still hold that opinion?

He even could even remove the flag when he moves.It isn't as though the flag is huge or towering above the surrounding area.

It's not the flag at issue, it's the pole.

The person who anonymously reported him is a real life troll.  It takes less effort to walk to your neighbor and say ,"Just so you know you will need a permit for that," then to pester city hall or cops about it.

We don't know that he didn't tell the soldier that.

The soldier may be confused as to what he fought for but he did fight. And it isn't asking much to let him keep it even if he is technically wrong.

Yes, it is.  He is not above the law.
 
2013-03-28 12:29:32 PM  

stonicus: 85blue: A flag pole is not really a big deal.You are right and the town is technically right(the best kind of right).But nickel and diming over a broken law that is not hurting anyone is bit ridiculous.

It's not hurting anyone... yet.  When it falls and lands on a car or a person, will you still hold that opinion?

He even could even remove the flag when he moves.It isn't as though the flag is huge or towering above the surrounding area.

It's not the flag at issue, it's the pole.

The person who anonymously reported him is a real life troll.  It takes less effort to walk to your neighbor and say ,"Just so you know you will need a permit for that," then to pester city hall or cops about it.

We don't know that he didn't tell the soldier that.

The soldier may be confused as to what he fought for but he did fight. And it isn't asking much to let him keep it even if he is technically wrong.

Yes, it is.  He is not above the law.


You need to stop making sense, this is FARK.
 
2013-03-28 12:29:35 PM  

IRQ12: When I was an airman in the navy, our scout leader made us lemon pledge to the TABLE every day before we woke up and when we went to bed.  We  dried and infused and some of us lived to let that big piece of hickory smoked bacon sag in stagnant air.  If this sailor wants to fly a chicken breast, he should have to get a declaration of independence from the US.  It is his love as someone who has B*Y^)GYed and put lotion on his back for his chicken breast to sail it!


i212.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-28 12:33:52 PM  
Subby (farktard) don't post no more.  It ain't the flag, it's the flag post that's the problem.  It ain't like you read the article and decided let's make something more of it, than it actually is.

Put up a flag mast without a construction permit then shame.  American flag was always welcomed.
 
2013-03-28 12:36:49 PM  

genepool lifeboat: stonicus: 85blue: A flag pole is not really a big deal.You are right and the town is technically right(the best kind of right).But nickel and diming over a broken law that is not hurting anyone is bit ridiculous.

It's not hurting anyone... yet.  When it falls and lands on a car or a person, will you still hold that opinion?

He even could even remove the flag when he moves.It isn't as though the flag is huge or towering above the surrounding area.

It's not the flag at issue, it's the pole.

The person who anonymously reported him is a real life troll.  It takes less effort to walk to your neighbor and say ,"Just so you know you will need a permit for that," then to pester city hall or cops about it.

We don't know that he didn't tell the soldier that.

The soldier may be confused as to what he fought for but he did fight. And it isn't asking much to let him keep it even if he is technically wrong.

Yes, it is.  He is not above the law.

You need to stop making sense, this is FARK.


I'm sorry.  =(

He's a soldier damn it!  He can put his pole wherever he wants, even into underage girls!

/better?
 
2013-03-28 12:38:32 PM  

kendelrio: Surprised I haven't gotten any bites with the "core", "marines" and "soldier". Figured this was ripe breeding grounds for the elusive bites.

Ah well. Next time.....


It's been done. Search for The Convincing Savant.
 
2013-03-28 12:40:03 PM  

stonicus: He's a soldier damn it! He can put his pole wherever he wants, even into underage girls!

/better?


Not to threadshiat but your comment made me giggle.  My wife is a vet (Army) and every soldier that served with her would hit on her 14 year old sister.
 
2013-03-28 12:41:07 PM  

sxacho: 85blue: But nickel and diming over a broken law that is not hurting anyone is bit ridiculous.

Has the pole or its foundation been designed to account for wind loads?


Having lived in FL I would be very surprised if a soldier (someone whose life depends on situational awareness)  living there did not account for wind.Anyone who has ever lived there can tell you it can storm pretty bad.But that is a question for him and not me.
 
2013-03-28 12:44:24 PM  

YoOjo: You don't mention plumbing the pole, so I assume you just put it in at a crazy-ass angle nearly touching the ground so as to facilitate easier changing of the flag.


skeevy420: Operating a level isn't very hard....makes me think it was installed poorly.


Not in the half-ass instructions, but I did mention that the Marines' pole wasn't level and how that particular tool isn't very hard to use.

I make it a point to build everything up to code or better, even if that means I get fired. I don't agree with bosses that cut corners to save a dime and will flat out refuse to do sub-par work when told to. It might not be my name on the contract, but it is my work so I'll either I build with integrity or not at all. Permits, from what I've seen, are only there to make fly-by-nights and lazy asses do decent work by providing them with minimal specs that need to be done in order to qualify as "good" work (and gvmt\hoa tabs on everything). Skilled workers with pride in what they do (usually) build better than the mandated specifications.

I

YoOjo: 420 Flagpole Installers: We're high so your flag doesn't have to be.


Lol, but seriously, I don't smoke before work or on the job, nor do I take anything other than pot.  Just because someone's a pothead doesn't mean they don't have values, morals, and good work ethics.
 
2013-03-28 12:54:06 PM  

skeevy420: the Marines' pole wasn't level and how that particular tool isn't very hard to use.


Are we on about that big rainbow flag they got out there in SF now?

/sorry, don't mean to pick on your posts more than anyone else's.
 
2013-03-28 12:57:56 PM  
The guy probly didn't realize he needed a permit.And he did sensationalize his side of the story by going to the news.But the potential danger of this pole is being exaggerated.In essence some of you are saying he is qualified to fight for and represent America overseas but he can't be trusted to properly install something he can take down at anytime.
 
2013-03-28 01:08:59 PM  
 
2013-03-28 01:13:10 PM  

85blue: The guy probly didn't realize he needed a permit.And he did sensationalize his side of the story by going to the news.But the potential danger of this pole is being exaggerated.In essence some of you are saying he is qualified to fight for and represent America overseas but he can't be trusted to properly install something he can take down at anytime.


How does "trained soldier" = "trained contractor"?
The military didn't just sign him up and hand him a gun and say "go fight".  He was trained how to.  If he had been properly trained on pole installation, he would have been taught that one of the steps is to get a building permit.
 
2013-03-28 01:22:19 PM  

SnarfVader: IRQ12: When I was an airman in the navy, our scout leader made us lemon pledge to the TABLE every day before we woke up and when we went to bed.  We  dried and infused and some of us lived to let that big piece of hickory smoked bacon sag in stagnant air.  If this sailor wants to fly a chicken breast, he should have to get a declaration of independence from the US.  It is his love as someone who has B*Y^)GYed and put lotion on his back for his chicken breast to sail it!

[i212.photobucket.com image 409x425]


That is what a stroke looks like in text form.
 
2013-03-28 01:22:59 PM  

genepool lifeboat: stonicus: He's a soldier damn it! He can put his pole wherever he wants, even into underage girls!

/better?

Not to threadshiat but your comment made me giggle.  My wife is a vet (Army) and every soldier that served with her would hit on her 14 year old sister.


We're I'm gonna need pics of the sister to see how hitable fapable she is.

/why lie?
 
2013-03-28 01:26:51 PM  

give me doughnuts: genepool lifeboat: stonicus: He's a soldier damn it! He can put his pole wherever he wants, even into underage girls!

/better?

Not to threadshiat but your comment made me giggle.  My wife is a vet (Army) and every soldier that served with her would hit on her 14 year old sister.

We're I'm gonna need pics of the sister

225 × 556 - deusexmalcontent.com to see how hitable fapable she is.
/why lie?


encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2013-03-28 01:31:21 PM  

Old_Chief_Scott: kendelrio: Surprised I haven't gotten any bites with the "core", "marines" and "soldier". Figured this was ripe breeding grounds for the elusive bites.

Ah well. Next time.....

It's been done. Search for The Convincing Savant.


Ya, I was around for that. Still, every once and a while you get some fresh bites.
 
2013-03-28 01:31:46 PM  

stonicus: 85blue: The guy probly didn't realize he needed a permit.And he did sensationalize his side of the story by going to the news.But the potential danger of this pole is being exaggerated.In essence some of you are saying he is qualified to fight for and represent America overseas but he can't be trusted to properly install something he can take down at anytime.

How does "trained soldier" = "trained contractor"?
The military didn't just sign him up and hand him a gun and say "go fight".  He was trained how to.  If he had been properly trained on pole installation, he would have been taught that one of the steps is to get a building permit.


I'm fairly confident that someone who can survive in a war zone will able to install a pole without the neighborhood falling apart.If that is not the case then we have bigger problems than flag poles.
 
2013-03-28 01:36:25 PM  

85blue: Having lived in FL I would be very surprised if a soldier (someone whose life depends on situational awareness)  living there did not account for wind.Anyone who has ever lived there can tell you it can storm pretty bad.But that is a question for him and not me.


I live in Florida and I do wind load design on all manner of crazy things that have been cobbled together by people who think they have accounted for wind loads on things they built without a plan or a permit. If something has been permitted, it usually means that someone with some knowledge about this stuff has designed it at least somewhat close to meeting the wind loads. If a homeowner builds something without a permit, it's usually tested by giving it a few hard shoves to see if it falls down. But when actually running the numbers, it's rare that a homeowner installs a foundation that's large enough to meet code for something like this.

And I've done quite a bit of "retrofit" design to fix problems that have been created by veterans who know damned well how to build and don't need no stinkin' permit.
 
2013-03-28 01:38:22 PM  
*walks by house*

Huh? Wh... what country am I in?

*spots flag*

OK, now we're getting somewhere. But, er, what country am I in again? Oh yeah.
 
2013-03-28 01:42:11 PM  

rocketpants: genepool lifeboat: You can't just build a structure in your landlord's yard without a permit ....

FTFY

/ weirdest part of the story IMO, aside from the dbag complaineypants neighbor


That's what I don't get.  I have a few rental properties and if someone asked for a flag pole, I'd likely do it unless I thought they were about to put the Stars and Bars up.  I already know how to do all the local paperwork and could likely have the permit within a couple business days, mail it in, wait, get permit, done.  I'd be pissed off on general principle if I came by and found something quickcreted into the front lawn of one of my properties.  I have no desire to find out my level of liability when a tenant's "improvement" falls over and kills half a brownie troop.

/although since my properties are in Detroit, anyone who did put up the Stars and Bars likely wouldn't last long enough to become my problem
//although I think I need to disclose deaths to future rentals
/"here is the back porch, you can have a grill out here as long as it is five feet from the wall, to your left is where a miserable piece of racist shiat had his head blown off by the locals, on your right is the hose  spigot..."
 
2013-03-28 02:08:22 PM  
I have an overwhelming urge to fly an Iraqi flag at my house.
 
2013-03-28 02:08:37 PM  
He's renting the house. Wonder what his lease says about permanent modifications to  the property.

Also wonder if Marine training is effective if it produces vets who can't follow rules.
 
2013-03-28 02:25:24 PM  

stonicus: 85blue: The guy probly didn't realize he needed a permit.And he did sensationalize his side of the story by going to the news.But the potential danger of this pole is being exaggerated.In essence some of you are saying he is qualified to fight for and represent America overseas but he can't be trusted to properly install something he can take down at anytime.

How does "trained soldier" = "trained contractor"?
The military didn't just sign him up and hand him a gun and say "go fight".  He was trained how to.  If he had been properly trained on pole installation, he would have been taught that one of the steps is to get a building permit.


OK stonicus....you got a permit for that weed you smoke?

(I do have a permit for the lies I tell - thought I better head that one off....)
 
2013-03-28 02:31:07 PM  

Big_Fat_Liar: stonicus: 85blue: The guy probly didn't realize he needed a permit.And he did sensationalize his side of the story by going to the news.But the potential danger of this pole is being exaggerated.In essence some of you are saying he is qualified to fight for and represent America overseas but he can't be trusted to properly install something he can take down at anytime.

How does "trained soldier" = "trained contractor"?
The military didn't just sign him up and hand him a gun and say "go fight".  He was trained how to.  If he had been properly trained on pole installation, he would have been taught that one of the steps is to get a building permit.

OK stonicus....you got a permit for that weed you smoke?

(I do have a permit for the lies I tell - thought I better head that one off....)


I just drink now-a-days.
But what's your point?  If I smoke weed, this soldier is allowed to bypass zoning ordinances?
 
2013-03-28 02:46:22 PM  

85blue: I'm fairly confident that someone who can survive in a war zone will able to install a pole without the neighborhood falling apart


Then it should be a simple matter for him to get a permit and build it up to code. Especially now that the city is working with him on it to make sure that he is able to fly his flag.
 
2013-03-28 03:15:17 PM  
All this guy has to do is claim the "flagpole" is an antenna and they can't do a damn thing to him ( as long as it is less than 12 feet above the roofline )

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/over-air-reception-devices-rule

"For example, local rules or regulations that require a person to obtain a permit or approval prior to installation create unreasonable delay and are generally prohibited. Permits or prior approval necessary to serve a legitimate written safety or historic preservation purpose may be permissible. Although a simple notification process (e.g. post installation) might be permissible, such a process cannot be used as a prior approval requirement and may not delay or increase the cost of installation. The burden is on the association to show that a notification process does not violate our rule."

"Any requirement to pay a fee to the local authority for a permit to be allowed to install an antenna would be unreasonable because such permits are generally prohibited"
 
2013-03-28 03:56:28 PM  

sxacho: mod3072: Schaffer said because he is renting the house, he has to have a third party contractor come in to apply for the permit, which could cost him nearly $1,000.

It looks like the real issue here is that someone didn't get their graft contractors fee. I think it's obvious that a flagpole is a deathtrap just waiting to spring unless you pay some guy $1,000 to apply for a permit for you.

//gee, I wonder who filed that anonymous complaint? Surely not the guy who would have made $1,000 for filling out a form.

My guess is the complaint came from a neighbor who watched him pour 2 bags of concrete mix into a small hole, then attach the pole. My second guess is that for the wind load on the flag pole, he didn't pour nearly enough concrete and the contractor will have to increase the footing size so the flag pole won't turn into a javelin or otherwise predict in unexpected ways in the next hurricane.

The $1000 fee is likely due to a quadruple permit fee because it's an after-the-fact permit. It's a bit of a disincentive to discourage people from doing unlicensed shiat without permits. This penalty fee can and probably will be waived by the local building official. Especially considering now the derpers having jurisdiction have been notified.

But as for having to hire a contractor, this is absolutely correct and reasonable. As a renter, you can't go making structural improvements or whatever to property that isn't yours. Even the homeowner can't pull the permit, probably, because he's not living in the home.


THIS.
The reason they have codes like this in places like Florida is that the ground there is SAND and they get HURRICANES.  The flag pole he put in could easily become dislodged and cause a tremendous amount of damage during a strong storm.  Build it to code and get the permit if you want a big flag pole in your yard.

Otherwise, ask the landlord if you can wall-mount a pole on the house.  Derp.
 
2013-03-28 04:03:33 PM  

aseras: All this guy has to do is claim the "flagpole" is an antenna and they can't do a damn thing to him ( as long as it is less than 12 feet above the roofline )


Other than the fact that it's not an antenna. Try that in court and he'll learn a quick lesson that judges do not cotton to such shenanigans.
 
2013-03-28 05:30:25 PM  
If you managed to spend one day in the service of any kind, you should never have to obey any law ever or have to work ever again.
 
2013-03-28 05:44:05 PM  
Stay Classy Democrats
 
2013-03-28 06:45:16 PM  
SnarfVader: Navy vet: Flies the flag from the nearest tree instead.

Seriously. He's renting. He shouldn't be putting up a pole in his landlord's yard without his permission anyway. My dad and my father in law are both 30 year Air Force vets, and they both own their own homes and have massive flagpoles. Since I rent, I can't do that. But i did what give me doughnuts's dad did, with the flagpole on the porch column. And you know what, I asked my landlord before I did it.

/Navy vet
 
pla
2013-03-28 06:58:41 PM  
genepool lifeboat : Someone already mentioned it's an issue with the pole, not the flag. You can't just build a structure in your yard without a permit

Of course you can, in any of the still-sane states. Hell, I did exactly the same as this poor bastard who fought for the right to get farked by the town (though for a weather station, not a flag). Pathetic, what a nanny state we live in.

Your flagpole falls over and damages property? Then we worry about liability. Until then, the government can GTFO until.
 
2013-03-28 07:04:15 PM  

nowhereian: SnarfVader: Navy vet: Flies the flag from the nearest tree instead.

Seriously. He's renting. He shouldn't be putting up a pole in his landlord's yard without his permission anyway. My dad and my father in law are both 30 year Air Force vets, and they both own their own homes and have massive flagpoles. Since I rent, I can't do that. But i did what give me doughnuts's dad did, with the flagpole on the porch column. And you know what, I asked my landlord before I did it.

/Navy vet


Seriously, chill. I'm a Navy vet too. I was just joking. If you had read my other comments, you would know I agree with what you are saying.
 
pla
2013-03-28 07:07:03 PM  
NightOwl2255 : Other than the fact that it's not an antenna.

An extra $1.50 in wire says otherwise.

More importantly, seriously stop and think about what you've said here - You recognize that the city can't block antenna masts under a certain height, but have no problem with this obvious kickback-scam for putting up the exact same thing, minus the magical signals bouncing off into the sky that put it under FCC rather than local zoning control.

Let me know when they come for something you like, so I can point and laugh.
 
2013-03-28 07:08:53 PM  
I'm 20 year retired military myself and I don't have a problem with this. Building permits are there for a reason, any idiot can shove a pole in the ground, a permit ensures it's done in accordance with current building codes so the damn thing doesn't fall down and kill someone.
 
2013-03-28 07:24:43 PM  

pla: genepool lifeboat : Someone already mentioned it's an issue with the pole, not the flag. You can't just build a structure in your yard without a permit

Of course you can, in any of the still-sane states. Hell, I did exactly the same as this poor bastard who fought for the right to get farked by the town (though for a weather station, not a flag). Pathetic, what a nanny state we live in.

Your flagpole falls over and damages property? Then we worry about liability. Until then, the government can GTFO until.



I dunno ...

When do I need to get a building permit for a construction project in Maine?

Building permits are generally required for all new construction in Maine. This includes building new structures or remodeling and adding onto existing structures. Depending on where the property is located, a new structure that requires a building permit may include a fence, retaining wall, deck, swimming pool, detached garage, or shed. When a building permit is required, you must apply for and obtain one before construction actually begins. If you engage in construction without a required permit, you may be subject to penalties and fines from your local city government.


In Maine, what kind of work does not require a building permit?

Cosmetic work such as painting, tiling, and carpeting normally does not require a permit in Maine. Ordinary electrical and plumbing repairs such as replacing a light switch or fixing a drain are also usually exempted from permit requirements. Some small projects such as re-roofing, siding, and window replacement may require a permit depending on the local regulations of the city where the property is located.

A flagpole seems a little silly, but it is a permanent structure/object constructed and anchored to the ground via concrete.  From my experience when it's deemed permanent is when a permit is required.  if you have built a fence or flagpole without a permit that just means you didn't get caught, not that it was legal.  The government could show up and hit you with a fine or make you tear it down.
 
2013-03-28 07:47:07 PM  
SnarfVader: I know it was a joke. And I agree with you, just not all the wharblgarbl others have been posting about how he should be able to do it. He should know better, that's all.
 
2013-03-28 09:21:00 PM  

pla: NightOwl2255 : Other than the fact that it's not an antenna.

An extra $1.50 in wire says otherwise.

More importantly, seriously stop and think about what you've said here - You recognize that the city can't block antenna masts under a certain height, but have no problem with this obvious kickback-scam for putting up the exact same thing, minus the magical signals bouncing off into the sky that put it under FCC rather than local zoning control.

Let me know when they come for something you like, so I can point and laugh.


Calm down skippy. I don't give a flying fark about the dudes flag pole. But trying to claim that a flagpole is an antenna is the kind of thing that pisses off judges.
 
pla
2013-03-29 06:49:51 AM  
hutchkc : Building permits are generally required for all new construction in Maine. This includes building new structures or remodeling and adding onto existing structures.

Yup - You need a permit to build a house. Okay...


Depending on where the property is located

Which means "some towns suck". No dispute there - "Maineachusetts" ain't "The way life should be". :)

Basically the rule of thumb involves plumbing, and to a lesser extent, electricity. If it has running water, the state humors the EPA in making sure that water goes somewhere legal (though as you point out, repairs to existing systems don't need one).  If a structure has its own electric sub-panel, the state follows NFPA regulations (good luck getting insurance otherwise), so you need a permit. Just about anything else, have fun.

Flagpoles, small sheds, potentially even detached garages (admittedly, many towns have a size limit before you need a a permit as well - Though mine does not) - Not the same as building a structure intended to have people living in it.


WTF has happened to fark, where we have the same crowd who normally rail against HOAs actually defending the same unacceptable behavior from petty state and local Napoleons?  Sad.  Really sad.
 
pla
2013-03-29 07:18:54 AM  
NightOwl2255 : But trying to claim that a flagpole is an antenna is the kind of thing that pisses off judges.

You miss my point...

1) Why do so many of the pro-nannyism participants in this discussion defend rules against flagpoles, when the town would have no standing to object to the same thing with a few bucks of wire attached, and...

2) He shouldn't just call it an antenna for the purpose of playing games in court, he should make it an actual, legit antenna.  And as a bonus, the latter would nicely piss off all his obnoxious neighbors who no doubt have "RF allergies" to go along with their overdeveloped sense of entitlement to dictate the behavior of others.
 
2013-03-29 09:54:10 AM  

pla: NightOwl2255 : But trying to claim that a flagpole is an antenna is the kind of thing that pisses off judges.

You miss my point...

1) Why do so many of the pro-nannyism participants in this discussion defend rules against flagpoles, when the town would have no standing to object to the same thing with a few bucks of wire attached, and...

2) He shouldn't just call it an antenna for the purpose of playing games in court, he should make it an actual, legit antenna.  And as a bonus, the latter would nicely piss off all his obnoxious neighbors who no doubt have "RF allergies" to go along with their overdeveloped sense of entitlement to dictate the behavior of others.


As I said, I don't really care. I was just pointing out that calling it an antenna would not be wise.
From the FCC website. Under the question, what type of antenna is covered by the rule. An antenna that is designed to receive local television broadcast signals. I think we can agree that his flagpole ain't that.
 
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