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(BBC)   European group sues Microsoft, claiming that UEFI is one big UFIA   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 29
    More: Interesting, UFIA, UEFI, Microsoft, Europeans, information needs  
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1506 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Mar 2013 at 8:52 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-28 09:02:18 AM
10-15 years ago the Spanish Linux group would have a groundswell of support on this, but now the PC market has changed.  The days of wide open PC hardware are increasingly being left behind, it began with laptops, then all-in-ones, then phones and tablets that have to be rooted or jailbroken.  Now with Microsoft aiming Windows 8 at PCs and tablets alike the line will be even more blurred.  If Microsoft decided to make it's own hardware for Windows 8 and Windows Phone, perhaps it's time the Linux people started doing the same.
 
2013-03-28 09:51:34 AM
You mean that industry standard technology that Apple uses in their machines, AND that will operate Linux no problem now that they've had the certificate since February 6th
?
 
2013-03-28 09:57:44 AM

Marine1: You mean that industry standard technology that Apple uses in their machines, AND that will operate Linux no problem now that they've had the certificate since February 6th
?


this! UEFI is the next generation of BIOS people.. it's not some farking nefarious scheme.. it was designed a decade ago and people have known about it for eons. Linux suppported it before mainstream windows did IIRC. Intel is the primary farking force behind it, and only a complete moron doesn't know how OSS friendly Intel is.

BIOS (open) -> EFI (closed, intel) -> UEFI (open, based off contributed EFI spec). EFI came with the first Itanics in 2000. This is nothing new.

theurge14: ....


25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-28 10:06:00 AM
I see Kazan is already here and has it covered nicely.  My work is done.  :)
 
2013-03-28 10:06:59 AM
Yes, I'm tinfoil.  Because secure boot can be disabled on Windows RT ARM-based systems, right?
 
2013-03-28 10:22:38 AM

theurge14: Yes, I'm tinfoil.  Because secure boot can be disabled on Windows RT ARM-based systems, right?


Who cares?  Do people biatch that their Android device won't run Windows RT or that their iOS device won't run Android?  No, they don't.  Unless their retarded and have no understanding of SoC setups and how vastly different they are to x86. Now the Surface Pro, that's a different beast and your question should be:

Can I install A. N. Other OS on to a Surface Pro?  As that's x86.
 
2013-03-28 10:23:18 AM
Yeah, that was exactly my point in my Boobies.  Sheesh.
 
2013-03-28 10:38:16 AM
Vaneshi:
Can I install A. N. Other OS on to a Surface Pro?  As that's x86.

Yes, you can.
http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/how-to-install-ubuntu-on-the-sur fa ce-pro-20130211/
Secure boot is not locked on the Pro like it is on the RT.  For the record, the RT has not sold well, by some reports only a few million (which is total trash).  The Pro has outsold it leaps and bounds, no one is buying the locked down system that does not run legacy apps.
 
2013-03-28 10:39:26 AM

Vaneshi: theurge14: Yes, I'm tinfoil.  Because secure boot can be disabled on Windows RT ARM-based systems, right?

Who cares?  Do people biatch that their Android device won't run Windows RT or that their iOS device won't run Android?  No, they don't.  Unless their retarded and have no understanding of SoC setups and how vastly different they are to x86. Now the Surface Pro, that's a different beast and your question should be:

Can I install A. N. Other OS on to a Surface Pro?  As that's x86.


and the answer is: Yes. there are many videos out of shenanigans on surface pros.
 
2013-03-28 10:41:17 AM
In fact on X86/x86-64 MS required that you be able to disable/customize secure boot. Also not all hardware has to have a windows logo, just stuff for full logo'ed solutions. There is a lot of hardware out there that isn't logo. In fact i think none of the hardware in my computer at home is logo'ed.
 
2013-03-28 10:53:31 AM

AKA Joker: Vaneshi:
Can I install A. N. Other OS on to a Surface Pro?  As that's x86.

Yes, you can.
http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/how-to-install-ubuntu-on-the-sur fa ce-pro-20130211/
Secure boot is not locked on the Pro like it is on the RT.  For the record, the RT has not sold well, by some reports only a few million (which is total trash).  The Pro has outsold it leaps and bounds, no one is buying the locked down system that does not run legacy apps.


Uhm, no.

As of a week ago estimates are pointing to RT selling 900k and Pro selling 400k.

aka - peanuts in the industry
 
2013-03-28 11:53:14 AM
Typical Linux user

They can't get their distro to load on the latest hardware, so rather then code support for it like their own ethos decrees, they go off and sue Microsoft over Windows 8, which doesn't even have anything to do with the layer of the OSI stack UEFI is on.
 
2013-03-28 12:12:11 PM

fluffy2097: Typical Linux user

They can't get their distro to load on the latest hardware, so rather then code support for it like their own ethos decrees, they go off and sue Microsoft over Windows 8, which doesn't even have anything to do with the layer of the OSI stack UEFI is on.


It's about secure boot, not about UEFI in general.  Thanks for RTFA.
 
2013-03-28 12:24:19 PM
that "browser option" thing was bullshiat... if a customer doesn't know they can download another browser that's their farking problem.

This tho, is microsoft wedging a rootkit right into the MBR and CLAIMING it was for security when it was hacked before release.
 
2013-03-28 01:01:58 PM
And it can be turned off..... Oh wait.... Thats only if its not an OEM board from the big Names who put a confidential password on the bios to fark you over every which way.

/LowJack in my BIOS????
 
2013-03-28 01:03:29 PM
Big names as in HP/Dell and whoever
 
2013-03-28 02:01:31 PM
As others have noted, third parties can get signed keys for their kernels for use with Secure Boot for UEFI.  The main issue is when end-users want to compile their own kernels or kernel modules that are outside of the signed key infrastructure.  Either the UEFI firmware is going to need to allow entry of private keys or the OS kernel is going to need a chain of trust.

A few methods are described here.
 
2013-03-28 02:02:11 PM
Here:  https://wiki.freebsd.org/SecureBoot
 
2013-03-28 04:19:14 PM

AKA Joker:Yes, you can.

Kazan: and the answer is: Yes. there are many videos out of shenanigans on surface pros.


Then I don't give a crap.  I mean I understand the difficulty UEFI in certain modes of operation can present but if Microsoft aren't doing the same shiat they did in the 90's with the OEM's and Windows licenses... screw it.
 
2013-03-28 05:14:18 PM

Dinjiin: As others have noted, third parties can get signed keys for their kernels for use with Secure Boot for UEFI.  The main issue is when end-users want to compile their own kernels or kernel modules that are outside of the signed key infrastructure.  Either the UEFI firmware is going to need to allow entry of private keys or the OS kernel is going to need a chain of trust.

A few methods are described here.


Kazan: In fact on X86/x86-64 MS required that you be able to disable/customize secure boot. Also not all hardware has to have a windows logo, just stuff for full logo'ed solutions. There is a lot of hardware out there that isn't logo. In fact i think none of the hardware in my computer at home is logo'ed.

 
2013-03-28 06:42:07 PM
Just. wow.  Glad folks have some sense around here unlike the EU.  They just can't seem to let it go.  They got their low-hanging fruit the first time and should have stfu.  Why are these linux nerds so gungho on running it anyway?  I thought that was the whole point of linux: to steal unix and create forums to not answer questions in for over 10 years.

I should dig up Be's bones and dry hump sue them because haiku locks in debug mode on my p3 compaq.
lol.
 
2013-03-28 07:00:09 PM

kimmygibblershomework: Just. wow.  Glad folks have some sense around here unlike the EU.  They just can't seem to let it go.  They got their low-hanging fruit the first time and should have stfu.  Why are these linux nerds so gungho on running it anyway?  I thought that was the whole point of linux: to steal unix and create forums to not answer questions in for over 10 years.

I should dig up Be's bones and dry hump sue them because haiku locks in debug mode on my p3 compaq.
lol.


An interesting attempt, back hand slap to Linux whilst mentioning BeOS.  You did some research I'll grant you but with the lack of flag waving for SCO's case and well I'm not seeing any mention of OS/2 here... I can't score you higher than a 4.5.

Sorry.
 
2013-03-28 08:48:57 PM
If UEFI is the reason I can take my computer from dead cold to windows login in about 5 seconds, then that shiat is awesome.

Linux?  I like to play around in it every now and then, particularly when I feel like giving a go at learning the basics of a given programming language.  But unless you work on servers or do some other specialized job, I couldn't imagine trying to work in it all the time.  Even the most polished distros have some weird quirk about it, like difficulty playing YouTube videos or not working with my wifi card (even when drivers are loaded).

I figure, though, that as long as some people need a computer without UEFI, there will be someone out there who'll sell you what you need.  Even if it's a no-name Chinese computer with a BIOS in Cantonese.  But I'm pretty sure most computers will go with UEFI just because most users never leave Windows.

/and yeah, linux devices are going to be a must eventually, if they ever want to make Linux reach critical mass
 
2013-03-28 10:46:15 PM

ColdFusion: If UEFI is the reason I can take my computer from dead cold to windows login in about 5 seconds, then that shiat is awesome.


No, the speed is faster disks, more IO throughput, larger cache on the disks and the OS building a cache of it's drivers in ready to digest format.

EFI is just a more modern form of a Basic Input Output System.
 
2013-03-28 11:15:24 PM

Vaneshi: kimmygibblershomework: Just. wow.  Glad folks have some sense around here unlike the EU.  They just can't seem to let it go.  They got their low-hanging fruit the first time and should have stfu.  Why are these linux nerds so gungho on running it anyway?  I thought that was the whole point of linux: to steal unix and create forums to not answer questions in for over 10 years.

I should dig up Be's bones and dry hump sue them because haiku locks in debug mode on my p3 compaq.
lol.

An interesting attempt, back hand slap to Linux whilst mentioning BeOS.  You did some research I'll grant you but with the lack of flag waving for SCO's case and well I'm not seeing any mention of OS/2 here... I can't score you higher than a 4.5.

Sorry.

lol I literally drink my coffee from an ancient insulated OS/2 "Operate at a higher level" mug, although I haven't ran it in years.
SCO, heck, Bell labs' RAND corp subsidiary should patent sue the hell out of all of em- ms, linux, android linux,free bsd minix erm osx, and apparently Be's lower stack lol. Suffle all that money into comfy factories so our children can "perspire" while building iPhones for the Chinese.  
That should garner a couple of extra points :)
 
2013-03-28 11:53:07 PM

ColdFusion: If UEFI is the reason I can take my computer from dead cold to windows login in about 5 seconds, then that shiat is awesome.


Heh. Doubt it.

 My main desktop computer is pretty nice, not gonna lie - 12 gig of ram, 8-core i7 processor, and an SSD, I run Linux Mint.

 When I boot up, I get the usual BIOS spash screens... 'press F2 for setup', etc. Once those disappear, I'm immediately at my desktop. I'm not joking. There is no 'boot up time'. It's insane and it's frankly new to me as I'm a relatively new Linux user. But damn, it's near-instant to desktop.

 As an aside - this machine is a dual boot machine, between Linux Mint and Win 7. According to the respective process managers, Win 7 is eating 1.5 gigabytes of RAM at idle, 30 seconds after startup. Mint is using less than 400 megabytes.
 
2013-03-29 04:03:17 AM

Samwise Gamgee: According to the respective process managers, Win 7 is eating 1.5 gigabytes of RAM at idle, 30 seconds after startup. Mint is using less than 400 megabytes.


Vista had the same issue, the way Microsoft calculate used memory is just whack.  For some reason, known only to them it includes the disk buffers in there as well.   Mint is using about the same as Win7 once you begin including those in.

OTOH who cares about disk cache levels unless your a storage person.
 
2013-03-29 11:21:42 AM

Vaneshi: Samwise Gamgee: According to the respective process managers, Win 7 is eating 1.5 gigabytes of RAM at idle, 30 seconds after startup. Mint is using less than 400 megabytes.

Vista had the same issue, the way Microsoft calculate used memory is just whack.  For some reason, known only to them it includes the disk buffers in there as well.   Mint is using about the same as Win7 once you begin including those in.

OTOH who cares about disk cache levels unless your a storage person.


Superfetch also screws up a ton of metrics by loading the memory with stuff you commonly use, but at the lowest priority, allowing any active program to run right over it if it needs the space. So it will sit there SAYING it's using 60% of your memory but plenty of that is actually accessible to for use.
 
2013-03-30 12:22:36 PM

Vaneshi: ColdFusion: If UEFI is the reason I can take my computer from dead cold to windows login in about 5 seconds, then that shiat is awesome.

No, the speed is faster disks, more IO throughput, larger cache on the disks and the OS building a cache of it's drivers in ready to digest format.

EFI is just a more modern form of a Basic Input Output System.


New computer has a slower HDD than before.

http://www.tested.com/tech/pcs/2894-what-you-should-know-about-uefi- an d-windows-boot-times/

"As Microsoft's Windows division president Steven Sinofsky, drastically reduced boot times aren't "because UEFI is inherently faster, but because UEFI writers starting from scratch are more able to optimize their implementation rather than building upon a BIOS implementation that may be many years old."

Turns out ditching ancient tech from the days of "IBM Clone" being a common-use word for a newer implementation better suited for a modern OS helps make modern OSes work better.
 
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