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(Forbes)   For those who need help deciphering the greatest video game plot/ending in years, an excellent take on Bioshock Infinite. Not that reading this will help one get any sleep   (forbes.com) divider line 92
    More: Spiffy, BioShock Infinite, BioShock, De Witt, plots, possible worlds, space-time, sleeps, alternate ending  
•       •       •

3982 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Mar 2013 at 9:56 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-28 01:24:53 PM  

Ned Stark: So, since people are agitated about spoilers why not talk about other stuff.

What's you favorite vigor/weapon/gear combos?

Really really loved maxed out devils kiss with the blast hat. Burn it all down!


Devil's Kiss has been my go-to, as well as Possession (that's saved my . But I'm really starting to love the water tentacles one (can't remember the name exactly). Although it can become overpowered pretty easily. It becomes pretty easy when you can just blow away every bad guy right off Columbia to their deaths.

My go-to weapons have been the sniper rifle and the hand-cannon.

The gear is so varied and crazy I don't even know what I'm wearing right now.
 
2013-03-28 01:39:00 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Ned Stark: So, since people are agitated about spoilers why not talk about other stuff.


What's you favorite vigor/weapon/gear combos?


Really really loved maxed out devils kiss with the blast hat. Burn it all down!


Devil's Kiss has been my go-to, as well as Possession (that's saved my . But I'm really starting to love the water tentacles one (can't remember the name exactly). Although it can become overpowered pretty easily. It becomes pretty easy when you can just blow away every bad guy right off Columbia to their deaths.


My go-to weapons have been the sniper rifle and the hand-cannon.


The gear is so varied and crazy I don't even know what I'm wearing right now.



I just started playing but all I gots is a pistol and a machine gun, and my vigors are possession, devil's kiss, and Murder of Crows.


But in all honesty, I find it more fun to use my melee attack to beat and claw and all them biatches up close. Nice and bloody and you can hear their bones and flesh rip.
 
2013-03-28 01:49:50 PM  

Tyrosine: you have missed out on a great game


Meh. I'm sure I've missed out on lots of great games for less significant reasons. I bought the original, I got a proverbial kick in the nuts. I think I'll comfort my wounds by giving my hard-earned money to any of the increasingly large number of indie developers who spent their resources making their own great games instead of viruses that keep me from playing them.

AntonChigger: Steam is your friend.


Funny you should mention that since it's currently keeping me from playing Sins of A Solar Empire :\
 
2013-03-28 02:10:04 PM  
I know someone who won't buy the new Bioshock because he doesn't like games that push political agendas down his throat, they just make him mad.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
 
2013-03-28 02:42:18 PM  

Yuri Futanari: I know someone who won't buy the new Bioshock because he doesn't like games that push political agendas down his throat, they just make him mad.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.


BioShock II wasn't nearly as much fun with the straw commie as BioShock was with the straw Randian
 
2013-03-28 02:49:51 PM  

alwaysjaded: Ditto. Bought the Infinite/XCOM combo on Steam and wanted to finish XCOM before moving on to Bioshock.

/ enjoying it a lot
// this is just a bookmark to read the article after finishing Infinite


XCOM is a really fun game.  Reminds me of the old Warhammer turn-based strategy games but with a lot more polish.  The legendary soldier cheats are also a fun diversion.
 
2013-03-28 03:17:08 PM  
 
2013-03-28 03:24:21 PM  

Ned Stark: What's you favorite vigor/weapon/gear combos?


I had a blast getting all of the different weapons achievements. I liked the gunplay far more than the vigors (though I'm like that in most games), though at the end of the game my favorites were the Carbine and the Machine Gun/Crank Gun.

I do have to say, it was very situational but I did like Murder of Crows, especially once you get the upgrade that lets you drop new crow traps for free. There were a few sequences where you'd get some crow traps in just the right spot, and you'd keep killing dudes and getting new crow traps for free, and meanwhile I'm far, far away with the sniper or the carbine living up the headshots.

I also liked a lot of the gear that played into the skyline combat. Zipping around and getting different tactical advantages was very fun, and the instant reload was great for things like the Crank Gun and RPG... I once shot an RPG from a skyline and inadvertently hit an enemy who was jumping off of his skyline in midair. IT WAS GLORIOUS.
 
2013-03-28 03:24:38 PM  
Also, is it a premonition? I assumed there would be a Bioshock thread today. I was confident enough I clicked geek and just CTRL-F'd it.

/csb
 
2013-03-28 03:26:39 PM  
I also really liked some of the musical directions they took (no spoilers). Nothing screams "dystopia" like "barber shop music." Made it feel very authentic.

//I think that song might have more to it than meets the eye...
 
2013-03-28 03:39:35 PM  

Fubini: I also really liked some of the musical directions they took (no spoilers). Nothing screams "dystopia" like "barber shop music." Made it feel very authentic.

//I think that song might have more to it than meets the eye...


The music is fantastic. I stopped at one point, listened for a while, and said "Yup, that's 'Girls Just Wanna Have Fun' set to barber shop" and laughed.
 
2013-03-28 03:42:36 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Fubini: I also really liked some of the musical directions they took (no spoilers). Nothing screams "dystopia" like "barber shop music." Made it feel very authentic.

//I think that song might have more to it than meets the eye...

The music is fantastic. I stopped at one point, listened for a while, and said "Yup, that's 'Girls Just Wanna Have Fun' set to barber shop" and laughed.


I was just going to say this. ^

There was also some Duran Duran when you are spying on Elizabeth.
 
2013-03-28 03:43:11 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Fubini: I also really liked some of the musical directions they took (no spoilers). Nothing screams "dystopia" like "barber shop music." Made it feel very authentic.

//I think that song might have more to it than meets the eye...

The music is fantastic. I stopped at one point, listened for a while, and said "Yup, that's 'Girls Just Wanna Have Fun' set to barber shop" and laughed.


Minor spoiler alert

I was wondering about it for a while until I hear CCR coming from one of the red 'cracks' and found a voxophone about the "strange noises coming out of nowhere"
 
2013-03-28 03:47:33 PM  

fisker: There was also some Duran Duran when you are spying on Elizabeth.


I knew I recognized that from somewhere!
 
2013-03-28 04:32:04 PM  

neuroflare: Minor spoiler, nothing in thread though.

My favorite part of the game so far was the moment shiat got REAL. Link


Same here. My jaw dropped.
 
2013-03-28 04:51:18 PM  
So... that word "scientific", it doesn't mean what the author of TFA seems to think it means.  Alternate world stuff is fantasy, not science fiction.

That said, sounds like a fun game, the reviewer being a pretentious douche with an education that apparently stopped in grade school aside.
 
2013-03-28 05:07:59 PM  

Jim_Callahan: So... that word "scientific", it doesn't mean what the author of TFA seems to think it means. Alternate world stuff is fantasy, not science fiction.


Ummm where did you get that from? Science has always dealt with the possibility of other worlds/dimensions. Hell String Theory is all about alternate universes. Science fiction is fiction that has a basis or groundwork in science.

Jurassic Park is considered science fiction because it's fiction, but the fictional stuff is supported by science (even if the science is fiction). Jurassic Park would be considered fantasy if Dr. Hammond swallowed magic dust and farted out a T-Rex.
 
2013-03-28 05:18:22 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Ummm where did you get that from? Science has always dealt with the possibility of other worlds/dimensions.


True, but ...

Hell String Theory is all about alternate universes.

Not really.  This "braneworld" stuff is highly conjectural even within string theory (and doesn't have much to do with the "alternative universes" concept being discussed here).

Likewise, all this "many worlds" quantum mechanics stuff is highly overrated and not subscribed to by most physicists.
 
2013-03-28 05:19:14 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Ummm where did you get that from? Science has always dealt with the possibility of other worlds/dimensions. Hell String Theory is all about alternate universes. Science fiction is fiction that has a basis or groundwork in science.


Multiverse theory posits non-interacting timelines/universes, the non-interacting part is necessary for the math to work at even a basic level.  The kind of thing where you're randomly wandering between potential timelines and pulling stuff from them is outright fantasy of the "a wizard did it" variety, whereas science fiction posits an exception to or addition to current science and follows through on the implications.  For instance, Jurrasic Park posited that DNA was recoverable from amber-trapped insects (not an infeasible assumption at the time) and followed through on what people could do with that, keeping otherwise to how things actually work.

It's a fairy story.  There's nothing wrong with fairy stories (a good parallel to what Bioshock Infinite is going for is Alice in Wonderland, for instance), they just don't explore any scientific concepts.  Art major physics isn't the same thing as scientific philosophy.

//Albeit I guess you could interpret it as science fiction if you called it a time travel story instead.  References to string theory and so on, however, fall firmly into the meaningless technobabble category, as it doesn't work that way.
 
2013-03-28 06:12:28 PM  

Jim_Callahan: It's a fairy story.  There's nothing wrong with fairy stories (a good parallel to what Bioshock Infinite is going for is Alice in Wonderland, for instance), they just don't explore any scientific concepts.  Art major physics isn't the same thing as scientific philosophy.


Science fiction, as a genre, isn't nearly as restrictive as you suggest.  A classic motivation of science fiction is to make an alternate reality and explore the consequences of the alteration. The fact that the alteration might be scientifically plausible doesn't matter- the fact that the alteration might be physically impossible might be part of the draw!
 
2013-03-28 06:33:05 PM  
Honestly it sounds like shiat
 
2013-03-28 06:49:24 PM  

Ambitwistor: scottydoesntknow: Ummm where did you get that from? Science has always dealt with the possibility of other worlds/dimensions.

True, but ...

Hell String Theory is all about alternate universes.

Not really.  This "braneworld" stuff is highly conjectural even within string theory (and doesn't have much to do with the "alternative universes" concept being discussed here).

Likewise, all this "many worlds" quantum mechanics stuff is highly overrated and not subscribed to by most physicists.


A Universe filled with many worlds, many solar systems and many galaxies. Why not many Universes? It's one of those things we may ultimately never know, but if someone or some group proved it within my lifetime, I wouldn't be surprised or astonished.
 
2013-03-28 07:00:22 PM  

Lamadin: Fubini: I was disappointed because at the end of the game I didn't see a clear path to redemption for Booker.

Ah, but the scene at the VERY end, after the credits role, leaves that issue up to the viewer. Or maybe the entire point of the game is that sometimes there IS no redemption, no matter your faith.

There was a story about one of the programmers almost quitting because he didn't agree with the way that Christianity (himself a Christian) was portrayed. Ken Levine talked him into staying, but it's possible that he was so angry was because of the lack of redemption, a tenant that goes against most religions.


If religions don't like their tenants, they shouldn't rent to them.
Or did you mean "tenet"?
 
2013-03-28 08:38:19 PM  
I preordered, but haven't gotten a chance to play it yet.  I'm avoiding reading the thread or the article to
avoid spoilers.

My only question is this: Should I play it drunk tonight or sober tomorrow?

/Drunk for first time ever.
//Beer tastes exactly like Mountain Dew in that the carbonation overpowers all the taste.
/// At work even.  Coworkers took me out.
////21 and 1 day
//Slashies are fun
//\\//\\ \ \\// //
//You'd think that the 6'4", 330 lb guy wouldn't be drunk off a single beer.
 
2013-03-28 08:49:47 PM  

meyerkev: I preordered, but haven't gotten a chance to play it yet.  I'm avoiding reading the thread or the article to
avoid spoilers.

My only question is this: Should I play it drunk tonight or sober tomorrow?

/Drunk for first time ever.
//Beer tastes exactly like Mountain Dew in that the carbonation overpowers all the taste.
/// At work even.  Coworkers took me out.
////21 and 1 day
//Slashies are fun
//\\//\\ \ \\// //
//You'd think that the 6'4", 330 lb guy wouldn't be drunk off a single beer.


Sober.  The first hour or so is completely devoid of fighting.  It's just straight exploration, and you're going to want to be paying attention.  I would stay sober right until someone hands you a baseball.  From that moment on I recommend drinking heavily.
 
2013-03-28 09:23:24 PM  
So I've had a chance to play it for a little bit on PC. Is anyone else having problems with the frame rate stuttering? It's fine until I look up or down then it starts looking like I'm in the middle of an earthquake. Tried changing the settings for a while and it's still having this problem. A quick search around and it appears I'm not the only one having this problem.
 
2013-03-28 10:08:12 PM  

Ned Stark: So, since people are agitated about spoilers why not talk about other stuff.


So, since people are so agitated about spoilers, why not NOT READ A FARK THREAD SPECIFICALLY ABOUT DISCUSSING THE ENDING OF THE GAME! Stop complaining about spoilers and just click that big red X at the top of the window. Or just push alt-f4. Either one works.

Here, I'll save you 10-15 hours: (SPOILERS)

Comstock is an alternate universe version of Booker, and in the end you have to kill yourself in order to prevent his rise to power. Oh, and Elizabeth is your daughter.

There. Now can we move on to an interesting and productive discussion of the story without people whining about things?

I think the ending was a real let-down that undermined the entire premise of the story. Think about it, the game goes to great lengths to make it clear that there is an infinite number of alternate universes. So, given that there is an infinite number of worlds, the probability of any possible outcome happening in the multiverse sits at exactly 1, and is completely immutable and unchangeable. In fact, the only to possible alternatives are that either everything that can possibly happen happens, or nothing happens. So when you go back and drown yourself in the baptism water, there is another alternate universe where you DIDN'T go back and drown yourself. There is also an infinite number of universes where Booker gets baptized and accepts it. An infinitely large subset of those universes have the reborn Comstock turning into an evil, insane villain. So going back and drowning yourself in ONE of those possible universes does nothing to alter any of the other ones. The only way for Booker to keep Comstock from being born would be to stop the multiverse from ever existing, at which point he will have killed everything.

So really, there was no point in him going back. In fact, there was no point to any of it. Because the game never wrestles with the idea of predestination and fate, which is what it SHOULD have focused on, or with learning to live in an inperfect world, which would ALSO have been a great take-away. Instead, it tries to go for the whole "noble, self-sacrificing hero" ending, which (again), not only doesn't make sense based on the underlying premise of the story, but also seems hackneyed and cheap.

My ideal ending would have been something like the ending of the first Metal Gear: Solid - You're left wondering if everything you have ever done and will ever do is purely based on faith, and come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter, so long as you believe yourself to be a free agent. Just my 2 cents.
 
2013-03-28 10:16:47 PM  
...but where did all you zombies come from?

/always wanted to play the series
//will never have the time, so just read the spoilers
 
2013-03-28 10:27:37 PM  
One more thing, from the Forbes comments, somebody there postulated that the trip to Rapture wasn't as non-sequitur-esque as it's made out to be. That instead, in an alternate universe, Booker took the name Andrew Ryan and built a utopian city underwater instead of in the clouds. Playing off the "There's always a man and there's always a city" comment Elizabeth makes. I think this MIGHT be an interesting take if they develop the Bioshock universe to be about Booker/Andrew/Whatever making him somehow the focal point of the entire multiverse. If they went in that direction, and slowly fleshed out the reason WHY Booker is the Everyman around whom the multiverse revolves and finding a way to break the cycle without killing the entire multiverse in the process, THAT would be pretty great,
 
2013-03-29 02:39:31 AM  
Alright, just finished it, and my first thought was "Wow, was Levine playing Marathon Infinity while Fringe was playing in the background?", followed by "This is what happens when you fark space-time in the ass!".

Still, there's one question I can't wrap my head around: how did Comstock know DeWitt was coming? Was it thanks to that tear-making contraption?
 
2013-03-29 07:55:54 AM  

alwaysjaded: So I've had a chance to play it for a little bit on PC. Is anyone else having problems with the frame rate stuttering? It's fine until I look up or down then it starts looking like I'm in the middle of an earthquake. Tried changing the settings for a while and it's still having this problem. A quick search around and it appears I'm not the only one having this problem.


I was having issues. Earlier in the thread a poolsize setting in an ini file was mentioned that helped quite a bit. If you have an nvidia card turning on Adaptive Vsync in the NV control panel for Bioshock Infinite helped quite a bit too.
 
2013-03-29 09:11:45 AM  
Phew, finished it last night!

snake_beater: Still, there's one question I can't wrap my head around: how did Comstock know DeWitt was coming? Was it thanks to that tear-making contraption?


And to answer your question, it's because Comstock saw it in another reality. He knew the possibility was there, just not if or when. He also knew that Booker marked himself as penance (or punishment) for giving up his daughter AD (Anna DeWitt). Remember there are other universes where he was never stopped at all and was able to accomplish everything he wanted. Another where he died, but Booker was unable to rescue Elizabeth, and she became an even more evil version of him.

The entire premise rests on the fact that Booker is actually the same in every single universe, but the big change with his life that determines the multiple universes is his baptism. Up until that point every single version of him was exactly the same.

My only big question is who the hell this guy is:

orcz.com

The one you see at the very beginning in the lighthouse before you go to Columbia.
 
2013-03-29 09:50:51 AM  

MightyPez: alwaysjaded: So I've had a chance to play it for a little bit on PC. Is anyone else having problems with the frame rate stuttering? It's fine until I look up or down then it starts looking like I'm in the middle of an earthquake. Tried changing the settings for a while and it's still having this problem. A quick search around and it appears I'm not the only one having this problem.

I was having issues. Earlier in the thread a poolsize setting in an ini file was mentioned that helped quite a bit. If you have an nvidia card turning on Adaptive Vsync in the NV control panel for Bioshock Infinite helped quite a bit too.


Yea, tried that and few other things. Even turned everything down to low and it was still doing it. Friend of mine who knows these things came over and he couldn't figure it out. Seems to be a problem for others as well. I haven't decided if I'm going to wait for a patch or grab a copy for the PS3 yet.
 
2013-03-29 11:29:48 AM  
Two days after release and already you're spoiling the ending?

Because I can see no other reason for wishing to discuss this so soon.
 
2013-03-29 05:08:12 PM  

scottydoesntknow: My only big question is who the hell this guy is:

SPOILERS BELOW I had a thought on that: the first question is this- who would have possibly left the note? There are actually two notes, the bloodstained one on the door as well as the one pinned to the guy. The only obvious people with the knowledge of your mission are the Luteces. However, given the dimensional funniness coupled with time travel, it could also potentially have been a future-alternate-Elizabeth. So we have two possible agents.
Look at the circumstances surrounding the guy: the lighthouse clearly is set up to house a guy for a long period of time (telephone, food, bed). Presumably there is a keeper who stays to guard the entrance to Columbia. Some things are disturbed, which leads us to believe there was some kind of struggle. He's also blinded and has his arms bound behind his back, which seems to imply some kind of captivity, or even torture.My personal thought: he was the lighthouse keeper and was interrogated by the Luteces in order to gain the passcode to Columbia (scroll/key/sword combo). Once they had the code, they killed him and left a note for Booker to reinforce the nature of his mission. In this case, us refers to the Luteces.Another possibility: Elizabeth comes back from the future to open the way for Booker, like when future-Elizabeth comes back and gives a note to Booker for present-Elizabeth. In this case, "us" refers to herself and Booker.Another thought- it's just another alternate-Booker who met a grisly fate somehow. I was thinking about this, and you respawn in the game (when you're not with Elizabeth) by walking out of your office into a bright light. This could be the Luteces repeatedly finding alternate Bookers to take over for the previous Booker whenever he dies, and the story is continuous because once entering a new dimension the new Booker will absorb all the memories of the previous Bookers and would be able to pick up where the last left off.
 
2013-03-29 05:58:21 PM  
scottydoesntknow:

My only big question is who the hell this guy is:

[orcz.com image 400x526]

The one you see at the very beginning in the lighthouse before you go to Columbia.


My guess? It's one of the Bookers that failed or the one that died as a martyr, since the Luteces can hop around space-time like Elizabeth.
 
2013-03-29 05:59:18 PM  

Fubini: scottydoesntknow: My only big question is who the hell this guy is:
SPOILERS BELOW I had a thought on that: the first question is this- who would have possibly left the note? There are actually two notes, the bloodstained one on the door as well as the one pinned to the guy. The only obvious people with the knowledge of your mission are the Luteces. However, given the dimensional funniness coupled with time travel, it could also potentially have been a future-alternate-Elizabeth. So we have two possible agents.
Look at the circumstances surrounding the guy: the lighthouse clearly is set up to house a guy for a long period of time (telephone, food, bed). Presumably there is a keeper who stays to guard the entrance to Columbia. Some things are disturbed, which leads us to believe there was some kind of struggle. He's also blinded and has his arms bound behind his back, which seems to imply some kind of captivity, or even torture.My personal thought: he was the lighthouse keeper and was interrogated by the Luteces in order to gain the passcode to Columbia (scroll/key/sword combo). Once they had the code, they killed him and left a note for Booker to reinforce the nature of his mission. In this case, us refers to the Luteces.Another possibility: Elizabeth comes back from the future to open the way for Booker, like when future-Elizabeth comes back and gives a note to Booker for present-Elizabeth. In this case, "us" refers to herself and Booker.Another thought- it's just another alternate-Booker who met a grisly fate somehow. I was thinking about this, and you respawn in the game (when you're not with Elizabeth) by walking out of your office into a bright light. This could be the Luteces repeatedly finding alternate Bookers to take over for the previous Booker whenever he dies, and the story is continuous because once entering a new dimension the new Booker will absorb all the memories of the previous Bookers and would be able to pick up where the last left off.


or this
 
2013-03-30 04:07:49 AM  
2.bp.blogspot.com

Sorry to ruin it, but I'm an ass like that.
 
2013-03-30 04:09:24 AM  
10 to 1 the DLC reveals Dewitt is also Songbird.
 
2013-03-30 11:27:37 AM  

nmemkha: 10 to 1 the DLC reveals Dewitt is also Songbird.

 I'm putting my money on Albert "Mozart of Columbia" Fink myself, seems just like his brother to use him as test subject 0 for his man/machine Handyman tech he's been getting from the rifts. Hell, he might even have a good reason for it (like a terminal disease), though that's a bigass MIGHT- Fink has proven to be quite the enormous douche.
 
2013-03-30 06:29:08 PM  
Yeah, it was pretty awesome. Did it deserve to be #1 on steam by the time I looked at it, which was almost immediately? Dunno, but it's really good.
 
2013-03-30 06:54:05 PM  

Fubini: scottydoesntknow: My only big question is who the hell this guy is:
SPOILERS BELOW I had a thought on that: the first question is this- who would have possibly left the note? There are actually two notes, the bloodstained one on the door as well as the one pinned to the guy. The only obvious people with the knowledge of your mission are the Luteces. However, given the dimensional funniness coupled with time travel, it could also potentially have been a future-alternate-Elizabeth. So we have two possible agents.
Look at the circumstances surrounding the guy: the lighthouse clearly is set up to house a guy for a long period of time (telephone, food, bed). Presumably there is a keeper who stays to guard the entrance to Columbia. Some things are disturbed, which leads us to believe there was some kind of struggle. He's also blinded and has his arms bound behind his back, which seems to imply some kind of captivity, or even torture.My personal thought: he was the lighthouse keeper and was interrogated by the Luteces in order to gain the passcode to Columbia (scroll/key/sword combo). Once they had the code, they killed him and left a note for Booker to reinforce the nature of his mission. In this case, us refers to the Luteces.Another possibility: Elizabeth comes back from the future to open the way for Booker, like when future-Elizabeth comes back and gives a note to Booker for present-Elizabeth. In this case, "us" refers to herself and Booker.Another thought- it's just another alternate-Booker who met a grisly fate somehow. I was thinking about this, and you respawn in the game (when you're not with Elizabeth) by walking out of your office into a bright light. This could be the Luteces repeatedly finding alternate Bookers to take over for the previous Booker whenever he dies, and the story is continuous because once entering a new dimension the new Booker will absorb all the memories of the previous Bookers and would be able to pick up where the last left off.


I'm inclined to believe it was the Luteces driving the point home to Booker.

/also, you need more line breaks in your walls of text
//makes it easier on the eyes, at least IMO
 
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