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(Forbes)   Obama in 2009: Obamacare will decrease premiums for families by $2500 yearly. American Academy of Actuaries: Um, about that. Try the opposite   (forbes.com) divider line 85
    More: Obvious, President Obama, American Academy of Actuaries, obamacare, premiums, statisticians, single adults, insurance exchange, ACA  
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1222 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Mar 2013 at 10:28 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-27 08:20:38 PM
By Avik Roy? This is guy who said that the reason Roberts upheld Obamacare was that he had a personal bias because he has epilepsy.
 
2013-03-27 08:22:54 PM
By the way, if you follow the links, the claim that premiums will drop by $2500 is just a link to a bunch of statements Obama made during the 2008 Presidential campaign. They have nothing to do with Obamacare.
 
2013-03-27 08:32:44 PM
It's nice when we let for-profit industries determine how much health care costs.
 
2013-03-27 09:12:07 PM
So the conservative Heritage Foundation's plan is bad, are you saying, and that single-payer is more efficient?

That's what I thought you didn't say.

/dtrfa
//knows that almost anything is better than letting private markets dictate primary care insurance
//'letting monkeys pick numbers out of a barrel' is roughly as efficient
 
2013-03-27 09:40:20 PM

DamnYankees: By the way, if you follow the links, the claim that premiums will drop by $2500 is just a link to a bunch of statements Obama made during the 2008 Presidential campaign. They have nothing to do with Obamacare.


righhhht.
So you are saying that when 0bama says something, we should just assume that he is lying.
 
2013-03-27 09:41:01 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: So you are saying that when 0bama says something, we should just assume that he is lying.


That's exactly what I'm saying.
 
2013-03-27 09:44:45 PM
FTA:  "Overall, the authors found that "premiums for younger, healthier individuals could increase by more than 40 percent" in the non-group insurance market due to Obamacare's community rating provision. "

Well, that will be fun to see them reacting to this.  They will undoubtedly see this as good thing since they all love 0bamacare so much.
 
2013-03-27 10:08:55 PM
So they're going to get stuck paying for more than they'll ever receive as they support the aging boomers just as the boomers did for the generation before them. Ponzi.

So it seems no matter what is done health care costs just go up. Maybe we should talk about limiting health care costs instead of getting people insurance...
 
2013-03-27 10:33:45 PM

DamnYankees: By Avik Roy? This is guy who said that the reason Roberts upheld Obamacare was that he had a personal bias because he has epilepsy.


DamnYankees: By the way, if you follow the links, the claim that premiums will drop by $2500 is just a link to a bunch of statements Obama made during the 2008 Presidential campaign. They have nothing to do with Obamacare.


Do we really need a thread after these two posts?
 
2013-03-27 10:36:23 PM
Due to poor competition in an exceptionally opaque market comprising captive consumers, shareholders demand exorbitant profits? The hell you say!
 
2013-03-27 10:38:56 PM

Fluorescent Testicle: Do we really need a thread after these two posts?


yeah, there are going to be some very concerned "posters" coming around to tell us how zero bama lied lied lied.
 
2013-03-27 10:40:47 PM

DamnYankees: By Avik Roy? This is guy who said that the reason Roberts upheld Obamacare was that he had a personal bias because he has epilepsy.


Judging by the guy's previous articles it seems he's totally an unbiased observer in the matter.
 
2013-03-27 10:41:26 PM

DamnYankees: By Avik Roy? This is guy who said that the reason Roberts upheld Obamacare was that he had a personal bias because he has epilepsy.


why is that relevant?
He is reporting what the American Academy of Actuaries concluded.

It doesn't matter if the author had a stupid opinion about Roberts.  What matters is what the report said.
 
2013-03-27 10:41:44 PM

Fart_Machine: DamnYankees: By Avik Roy? This is guy who said that the reason Roberts upheld Obamacare was that he had a personal bias because he has epilepsy.

Judging by the guy's previous articles it seems he's totally an unbiased observer in the matter.


He's not unbiased, but that's not a problem. You're allowed to have an opinion and a point of view. Just don't be an idiot.
 
2013-03-27 10:42:10 PM
I've seen all I need to know, Thank you Damn Yankees
 
2013-03-27 10:42:34 PM
Does this mean that now we can have universal, single-payer, nonprofit healthcare?
 
2013-03-27 10:44:16 PM
Why are all the articles about ObamaCare written by right-wingers?
 
2013-03-27 10:46:21 PM
Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
 
2013-03-27 10:46:34 PM
Everyone knows that actuaries are some of the most racist people on the planet.  The KKK was founded by actuaries.  Sitting behind their desks, doing their math, filled with racist rage.

/they'll burn their life tables on your front lawn if they don't like you because of the color of your skin
//actuarial exams are a biatch - remarkably fair and astonishingly affordable - but a biatch
///well, besides the exams being racist
////probability theory and the time value of money are code words for hate
/everyone knows what P & FM are short for
 
2013-03-27 10:50:20 PM
So as usual, how much of that is actually Obamacare and how much is because Aetna says it can? Important distinction.

Insurance companies received a huge giveaway in the form of a guaranteed customer base and government subsidies. If you hear anything but lies when insurance companies tell you why rates are increasing, you're either not listening or you're on their payroll.

Single-payer is the only way to go.
 
2013-03-27 10:53:57 PM

beta_plus: Everyone knows that actuaries are some of the most racist people on the planet.  The KKK was founded by actuaries.  Sitting behind their desks, doing their math, filled with racist rage.

/they'll burn their life tables on your front lawn if they don't like you because of the color of your skin
//actuarial exams are a biatch - remarkably fair and astonishingly affordable - but a biatch
///well, besides the exams being racist
////probability theory and the time value of money are code words for hate
/everyone knows what P & FM are short for


Persimmon & fig mousse?
 
2013-03-27 11:01:11 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: FTA:  "Overall, the authors found that "premiums for younger, healthier individuals could increase by more than 40 percent" in the non-group insurance market due to Obamacare's community rating provision. "

Well, that will be fun to see them reacting to this.  They will undoubtedly see this as good thing since they all love 0bamacare so much.



Cheaper to pay the tax penalty for not having health insurance, instead of having to pay these increased premiums. I imagine we'll see a lot of younger, healthier individuals dropping insurance. What that will lead to is anyones guess - perhaps they'll create their own health savings account. Perhaps they'll cause more burden to the nation's ERs if they get gravely ill or injured. Time will tell.

Single-payer is inevitable thanks to Obamacare. Just will take far too long for people to get sick of things as they are with it before they look to such solutions. Until then, we pay. Good times...
 
2013-03-27 11:02:44 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: righhhht.
So you are saying that when 0bama says something, we should just assume that he is lying.


Close. Replace "0bama" with your handle.
 
2013-03-27 11:04:13 PM

Britney Spear's Speculum: Why are all the articles about ObamaCare written by right-wingers?


Because they wrote what became "Obamacare" in the 1st place.
 
2013-03-27 11:08:45 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-27 11:14:51 PM
American Academy of Aspergers.
 
2013-03-27 11:16:06 PM

randomjsa: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 431x302]


You told us that Obama would pass a plan different from the one that he was talking about in the 2008 campaign?
 
2013-03-27 11:17:15 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: American Academy of Aspergers.


Oh dear, the nerds gave you an answer you didn't like and now you're kicking them to the curb.

/looking forward to JournoList's Nate Silver trying to twist himself out of this one
//just like a tolerant and compassionate liberal to make fun of a mental disability
 
2013-03-27 11:19:03 PM

beta_plus: /looking forward to JournoList's Nate Silver trying to twist himself out of this one


lolwut

Is this, like, a whole new level of stupid?
 
2013-03-27 11:21:41 PM
I've always wondered why no health insurance company just does away with group and individual plans as they exist and throws everyone together as one big group. That way the only savings a person on a group plan would have is whatever contribution, if any, an employer makes. Also it would make insurance more available to smaller businesses, which owing to their small size aren't given the lower rates large businesses get owing to the group size.
 
2013-03-27 11:23:11 PM

cameroncrazy1984: beta_plus: /looking forward to JournoList's Nate Silver trying to twist himself out of this one

lolwut

Is this, like, a whole new level of stupid?


No, Nate isn't stupid.  Let's see whether he is smart enough to deal with the report from the actuaries.
 
2013-03-27 11:24:30 PM

beta_plus: /looking forward to JournoList's Nate Silver trying to twist himself out of this one


I remember when trolling used to mean something.

/too damn lazy to look up the pic
//are people still trying to make the JournoList's a thing?
 
2013-03-27 11:24:45 PM

WhyteRaven74: I've always wondered why no health insurance company just does away with group and individual plans as they exist and throws everyone together as one big group. That way the only savings a person on a group plan would have is whatever contribution, if any, an employer makes. Also it would make insurance more available to smaller businesses, which owing to their small size aren't given the lower rates large businesses get owing to the group size.


Soshulism. Duh.
 
2013-03-27 11:24:52 PM

WhyteRaven74: I've always wondered why no health insurance company just does away with group and individual plans as they exist and throws everyone together as one big group.


ehhhh, how do you think they determine the price of the premiums for individual plans?
 
2013-03-27 11:37:15 PM
"Young people are already being hit hardest in the Obama economy."  Stopped there. Probably should have stopped earlier.
 
2013-03-27 11:41:10 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Let's see whether he is smart enough to deal with the report from the actuaries.


You mean the people who earn their money from the insurance industry?

Can we laugh any harder at you?
 
2013-03-27 11:41:54 PM
Well yes, that's what happens when you force people to buy a product from a private company at whatever price they want to charge for it. Shame on the Dems for not pursuing a public option more vigorously. If you install a mandate without price fixing, of course premiums are going up. Pass a law saying that everyone has to buy a McDonald's cheeseburger or else go to jail, and the price of a cheeseburger just became $100.
 
2013-03-27 11:43:27 PM

Tommy Moo: Shame on the Dems for not pursuing a public option more vigorously.


I love how its the Democrats fault in your narrative.
 
2013-03-27 11:43:28 PM

NewportBarGuy: tenpoundsofcheese: Let's see whether he is smart enough to deal with the report from the actuaries.

You mean the people who earn their money from the insurance industry?

Can we laugh any harder at you?


Looks like you don't know how the actuaries work.

Let me guess you also blame the weatherman when it rains.
 
2013-03-27 11:44:36 PM

cameroncrazy1984: beta_plus: /looking forward to JournoList's Nate Silver trying to twist himself out of this one

lolwut

Is this, like, a whole new level of stupid?


You know how I know you never took statistics?
 
2013-03-27 11:45:59 PM

Mrtraveler01: beta_plus: /looking forward to JournoList's Nate Silver trying to twist himself out of this one

I remember when trolling used to mean something.

/too damn lazy to look up the pic
//are people still trying to make the JournoList's a thing?


You know how I know you have never taken a finance or economics course?
 
2013-03-27 11:47:02 PM

beta_plus: cameroncrazy1984: beta_plus: /looking forward to JournoList's Nate Silver trying to twist himself out of this one

lolwut

Is this, like, a whole new level of stupid?

You know how I know you never took statistics?


www.miataturbo.net
 
2013-03-27 11:47:41 PM

DamnYankees: Tommy Moo: Shame on the Dems for not pursuing a public option more vigorously.

I love how its the Democrats fault in your narrative.


Didn't the House under Pelosi actually pass a bill that included a public option?
 
2013-03-27 11:48:47 PM

Biological Ali: DamnYankees: Tommy Moo: Shame on the Dems for not pursuing a public option more vigorously.

I love how its the Democrats fault in your narrative.

Didn't the House under Pelosi actually pass a bill that included a public option?


I believe so, IIRC. And the Dems had around 57 votes for it in the Senate.
 
2013-03-27 11:58:46 PM

DamnYankees: Biological Ali: DamnYankees: Tommy Moo: Shame on the Dems for not pursuing a public option more vigorously.

I love how its the Democrats fault in your narrative.

Didn't the House under Pelosi actually pass a bill that included a public option?

I believe so, IIRC. And the Dems had around 57 votes for it in the Senate.


The President rolled over and gave up the public option without even a fight. He pre-negotiated, coming to the table in the middle while the GOP was still at the far right, so they ended up 75% of the way to the right, giving giant gifts to corporations as a condition of providing health care for 20 million more people. Had he come out swinging for a single-payer system, he could have negotiated the public option, which was actually in the center. And the Dems followed his lead. It was their fault, yes, for not digging in and fighting for something 68% of the country wanted. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get 68% of the country to agree on anything? All the Dems wanted was to put a stamp on any old piece of shiat legislation and pat themselves on the back for a job well done. You can go back and read any thread that was greenlit back when this was being negotiated, and you will see that the vast majority of liberals expressed the same frustration I am. Time is apparently dulling some people's senses, and the left is now imagining that Obamacare was somehow a triumphant victory.
 
2013-03-27 11:59:16 PM

DamnYankees: I believe so, IIRC. And the Dems had around 57 votes for it in the Senate.


That's what I thought. I'm not sure what more the Democrats could have done, beyond literally staging a coup or developing mind-control powers or something.
 
2013-03-28 12:01:01 AM

Biological Ali: DamnYankees: I believe so, IIRC. And the Dems had around 57 votes for it in the Senate.

That's what I thought. I'm not sure what more the Democrats could have done, beyond literally staging a coup or developing mind-control powers or something.


Yeah, as much as its painful to admit, Obamacare couldn't have passed without some help from the Blue Dogs and as a result he had to compromise with them by getting rid of the public option.
 
2013-03-28 12:02:24 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: cameroncrazy1984: beta_plus: /looking forward to JournoList's Nate Silver trying to twist himself out of this one

lolwut

Is this, like, a whole new level of stupid?

No, Nate isn't stupid.  Let's see whether he is smart enough to deal with the report from the actuaries.


WTF are you talking about? What does election predicting have to do with actuaries?

Are you taking crazy pills too?
 
2013-03-28 12:03:25 AM

Mrtraveler01: Biological Ali: DamnYankees: I believe so, IIRC. And the Dems had around 57 votes for it in the Senate.

That's what I thought. I'm not sure what more the Democrats could have done, beyond literally staging a coup or developing mind-control powers or something.

Yeah, as much as its painful to admit, Obamacare couldn't have passed without some help from the Blue Dogs and as a result he had to compromise with them by getting rid of the public option.


The broader point is that if you're upset the bill wasn't strong enough, blame the freaking GOP for filibustering it, along with everything else.
 
2013-03-28 12:03:40 AM

beta_plus: cameroncrazy1984: beta_plus: /looking forward to JournoList's Nate Silver trying to twist himself out of this one

lolwut

Is this, like, a whole new level of stupid?

You know how I know you never took statistics?


No, please explain what Nate Silver has to do with this.
 
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