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(Yahoo)   The FBI would like to clarify that the recently discovered memo sent to Hoover in 1950 which stated that three flying saucers with pilots inside crashed near Roswell NM, in no way means that flying saucers crashed near Roswell NM, no sir, no how   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 42
    More: Strange, FBI, Roswell NM, Roswell, New Mexico, UFO, memoranda  
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20937 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Mar 2013 at 4:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-03-27 04:35:03 PM
8 votes:
I don't buy it.  Why would a UFO and aliens in the 50s look exactly like Hollywood thought UFOs looked in the 50s?    A flying saucer?  Please, it doesn't make sense from any aerodynamic or space travel perspective.
2013-03-27 05:25:07 PM
4 votes:
Hey, if anyone wants to start a political party based on disbelief in conspiracy theories, count me in. I'm pretty tolerant about most opinions all across the left-right, libertarian-communitarian spectrum (I may disagree with you, but I respect your right to conceive and hold your opinion), but farking tinfoil hatters make me want to bite somebody.

Our arch-foes are Truthers, Birthers, all Glenn Beck and Alex Jones fans, and that biatch Jenny McCarthy. Our main platform is to ensure that nothing they want ever gets included in legislation or executive action.
2013-03-27 05:06:57 PM
4 votes:

PainInTheASP: So let me get this straight.  A memo to the FBI DIRECTOR about a flying saucer that crashed was: "...simply a second- or third-hand claim that we never investigated."

Yeah.  Totally believable.  By the way, how many memos did the FBI director get sent during any given year?  All of them?


Yes, actually. Hoover was a famous micro-manager, and the FBI was much smaller back then. His correspondence with field office directors and even individual agents was ENORMOUS. And this memo to him is from the Special Agent in Charge in DC, based on a report from a redacted informant to a redacted special agent (probably in New Mexico). It's probably the last one before Hoover said, "OK, these are all bullshiat; stop sending me UFO reports."

You can find gigantic piles in the archives of field reports about erroneous crap that informers told the FBI, which had no basis in reality. Like this one from some loony claiming that an unnamed Air Force investigator had told him about a UFO crash. RTFM; you can click on it and zoom in to make it readable.

Anyway, if this were any sort of proof, and the FBI were trying to cover it up, would they publish it in their online archive? That's not how conspiracies work.
2013-03-27 05:05:21 PM
3 votes:

Lsherm: I don't buy it.  Why would a UFO and aliens in the 50s look exactly like Hollywood thought UFOs looked in the 50s?    A flying saucer?  Please, it doesn't make sense from any aerodynamic or space travel perspective.


There's a pretty good PBS documentary where they basically said that every UFO ever was an experimental plane that they wanted to hide.  Wouldn't be entirely surprised if this was a case of left hand (FBI) being unaware of right hand (USAF secret experiments)

/Forget the name
//But they had actual flying saucers at one point, thanks to Nazi science.
2013-03-27 04:28:48 PM
3 votes:
So let me get this straight.  A memo to the FBI DIRECTOR about a flying saucer that crashed was: "...simply a second- or third-hand claim that we never investigated."

Yeah.  Totally believable.  By the way, how many memos did the FBI director get sent during any given year?  All of them?
2013-03-27 08:22:08 PM
2 votes:

Danger Avoid Death: Magorn: At the national archives annex in college park MD there is a document from 1917 that you are not allowed to see because to this day it is classified top secret


Are you sure about that one?  NPR reported that the US government declassified in April 2011 the 6 oldest documents that still had active classification, a series from 1917 and 1918: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/04/20/135564718/cia-reveals- i ts-six-oldest-classified-documents-now-we-can-all-read-them

What were they?  A series of invisible ink chemical formulas used by spies circa World War I including how to detect the inks in question, now declassified as they are considered obsolete as espionage techniques.
2013-03-27 07:22:17 PM
2 votes:

ThrobblefootSpectre: Lollol. I suppose if I said "Two nuns and a gorilla walked into a bar, and the bartender says..." you would stop me and ask for a citation.


Well, when you say something that contradicts all established Federal law, regulations and policy on a subject matter in such a way that it sounds absurd to somebody with professional knowledge of the subject, asking for a citation is appropriate.

Electromax: Who decides what the President isn't allowed to see?


While it is possible for somebody to create a SCI compartment and then try to keep it so tight that nobody even knows the compartment exists, the problem comes when the President would have an actual need-to-know for the issue.  He might not have to be briefed on it so he wouldn't know to ask about this little black program, but if it's actually relevant to him, trying to hide it is a Very Bad Idea.  Legally, the President decides, through delegated authority of the Director of National Intelligence and other Original Classification Authorities (OCA's), who can see what with regards to ALL classified information in the US.  (See also Executive Orders 13526 and 12333, DoD Instruction 5210.87, DoD Directive 5210.55 and Intelligence Community Directive 704, as well as the National Security Act of 1947),

Look at it this way, who would have the legal authority to classify information in a way the POTUS couldn't see?  Everybody who has the legal authority to classify that information derives that authority as delegated by the POTUS through Executive Orders.  Nobody has the authority to classify ANYTHING without POTUS approval (even if highly delegated).
2013-03-27 06:22:01 PM
2 votes:

ThrobblefootSpectre: I'm still wondering where the security leak happened. Neither the director of the fbi nor the potus has high enough clearance for this.


Not sure if serious.

The idea that the POTUS doesn't have "high enough clearance" for something is pretty ridiculous.  Between federal regulations (32 C.F.R. 2001), and Executive Order 13526, POTUS has ultimate legal authority regarding classification, including deciding who gets access.

If you've got information saying that a sitting POTUS (or military aide working directly on his behalf, i.e. someone with Yankee White Category 1 access per DoD Instruction 5210.87 and DoD Directive 5210.55 ) explicitly does not have permission to access information in a specific SCI compartment when they have a Need To Know, I'd love to see your citation on that.

Yeah, in practice there are compartments with only a handful of people having access and the POTUS is not briefed on. . .but that's not because he doesn't have  "high enough clearance", it's because there is a shiatload of things going on and he isn't personally aware of them all, no one person has enough time in the day to know everything that's going on.  If it ever became important enough to warrant his personal attention, you better bet your ass he's got clearance for it.  Just try to actively withhold something from a sitting President saying he doesn't have clearance for it, and watch the quick and painful end of your government career.
2013-03-27 05:43:44 PM
2 votes:

Lsherm: I don't buy it. Why would a UFO and aliens in the 50s look exactly like Hollywood thought UFOs looked in the 50s? A flying saucer? Please, it doesn't make sense from any aerodynamic or space travel perspective.


Inter-dimensional rather than interstellar makes more logical sense to me.
2013-03-27 05:29:35 PM
2 votes:
For real people?

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4079 -  Aliens in Roswell
What was actually recovered from the Roswell desert in New Mexico in 1947?


tl;dr Podcast -  http://skeptoid.com/audio/skeptoid-4079.mp3
2013-03-27 05:07:25 PM
2 votes:
Generally speaking, it seems sort of weird that the discovery of extraterrestrial life would be covered up for 50+ years. Wouldn't NASA have gotten some memos/guidance about switching up their priorities? Wouldn't the little green bodies be shriveled and decayed by now to the point that scientific advantage (which has apparently not manifest in military tech) would no longer be gained? What would be the point of hiding it this long, in the sense of protecting a secret or getting an advantage over other nations? Just to avoid a War of the Worlds public freakout?

And why wouldn't the mothership send more dudes to recover them? Seems like we would.
2013-03-27 05:01:15 PM
2 votes:

moos: nature abhors a vacuum.


I hate this saying
Almost all of nature IS vacuum
2013-03-27 04:28:16 PM
2 votes:
The FBI has only occasionally been involved in investigating reports of UFOs and extraterrestrials. For a few years after the Roswell incident, Director Hoover did order his agents-the request of the Air Force-verify any UFO sightings. That practice ended in July 1950, four months after the Hottel memo, suggesting that our Washington Field Office didn't think enough of that flying saucer story to look into it

Or, that's when they learned whatever it was that they learned that made them so adamant about covering the aliens up.
2013-03-30 12:30:37 AM
1 votes:

gweilo8888: Somaticasual: It's probably because most sightings aren't the saucer type, but balls of light moving at exceptional speed with bizarre flight characteristics. Same description as the "foo fighters" seen in world war 2

Or, you know, because it's made-up nonsense.


Once upon a time the theory that the brain was the center of control for the body was considered "made up nonsense".
2013-03-28 01:20:07 PM
1 votes:

nymersic: So... what if I've seen a UFO?  The same sort thousands of others have seen?  No, not a flying saucer (haha, flying saucer, who believes in such nonsense) - but a Flying Triangle!

No... really.  Those who have never heard of them, Google the thing.  Pretty simple.  I've seen one - watched it for minutes.  Silent, hovering, black triangle, with a white light in each corner (not red lights, as many see); if it was a human plane low enough to look that big, then I'd see it fly past me in 15 seconds; if it was high enough to appear to move so slow, I doubt it would be in our atmosphere anymore, and ... it wouldn't suddenly disappear, either.  Yep, the thing totally vanished in an instant.  My cell phone in 2003 was a cheapo without a camera, not that I could have taken a decent picture back then anyway.  Was the middle of nowhere in South Carolina.  I'd just joined the military, and at that time in my life, I told myself it was just something military that they hid from the public.  I was naive back then... I didn't realize how incompetent and technically backwards the military was, and I hadn't realized how advanced the technology to hover such a craft must be.  Took me years to become the crazy tin-foil hat wearing nutter I am today, in that I conclude such a craft couldn't possibly have been human.

I have trouble even wording this seriously, because society makes me want to laugh at it... but I am totally serious.  I'm a sort of a smart guy, with experience in engineering, and I've no doubt that I've seen an Unidentified Flying Object of extra-terrestrial origin.

/seriously.
//report I typed up years ago:  http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/057/S57822.html    - even has a link to a Fark thread involving these things..


Don't feel bad  I saw the same thing in Tennessee  http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/049/S49488.html
2013-03-28 03:07:21 AM
1 votes:

LordJiro: The odds against ANY alien life living anywhere near Earth (and existing at the same time as humanity) are astronomical. Let alone intelligent creatures with recognizably humanoid features who live near enough to visit

Sorry, sci-fi fans.


I know! It's almost as astronomical as the odds against our own existence, everyone knows there's only one astronomic per astronomical
2013-03-27 11:09:25 PM
1 votes:

BSABSVR: So if we subtract away your handwaving, you have no proof, you're just loud about it. Noted.


Like i already stated, there is a shiatload of evidence in my profile. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

But people like you just ask for evidence, and ignore it when it's provided. Sifting through mountains of evidence might be time consuming, but that's what thinking for yourself requires. You can't just sit on the sidelines and take shots at issues you haven't fully researched. Well, you can, but it's not really productive.

Psycat: Why would an interstellar traveler spend decades on a journey, just to scare some people, maybe administer an anal probe or two, then fly back?


Right now some animals might be wondering the same thing about our scientists. To them, land dwelling creatures venturing halfway around the world, into the middle of the ocean, just to see them, is highly improbable. They don't know about SCUBA gear and airplane and boat travel. Just like we wouldn't know much about races which are much more advanced than us. I think for a lot of people that might be the hardest thing to accept: that we might be to other races what primitive animals are to us.

Psycat: Also, consider this: the typical ET-type alien is a humanoid with a big hairless head and a small body. In other words, like a human baby with green skin. The dimwits who get visited in the 21st century by glowing, green-skinned babies are no different than the dimwits of the 16th century who got visited by succubi who tended to be babies with horns and bat wings.


Different cultures just interpret it differently, maybe filling in blanks with a little creative license. Before we knew about mechanized flight and cosmology, the UFOs and their occupants were gods from the heavens.

And not all are humanoid. The ones who appear most interested in us are humanoid, though, but maybe that's because we're related somehow. Our unusually fast evolution compared to any other species, and all the giant leaps and anomalies, could indicate genetic tinkering. Maybe they're just keeping tabs on their project.
2013-03-27 10:46:53 PM
1 votes:

shower_in_my_socks: I have lots of family in the US Air Force. One of them told me one time that an associate of his used to operate out of "Area 51" back when it was still secret. According to that guy, the main reason for its secrecy was that we had a Russian MiG fighter, and we didn't want the Russians to know we had it. So we kept it at Area 51.

That, and the well-known fact that we were developing top secret aircrafts like the A-12/SR-71 there.


There's an excellent book called Red Eagles that is an account of what we did with the captured migs, and the people that flew them.
2013-03-27 10:23:58 PM
1 votes:
reimanr06

Would a sitting president have the power to classify things so that future presidents couldn't see it?

Technically yes, he could do so with a sealed executive order(similar to Jimmy Carter's executive order prohibiting assassination of foreign heads of state but kept quiet), however the future president would have equal power to override said order. Like in ID4 anyone caught knowingly preventing the current president from knowing something he had a need to would likely be done for even with that justification.
2013-03-27 10:22:52 PM
1 votes:

Gig103: ThrobblefootSpectre: I'm still wondering where the security leak happened. Neither the director of the fbi nor the potus has high enough clearance for this.

What movie did they say that in? ID4? MiB?  I remember hearing that and laughing at the thought that the Commander in Chief wouldn't have a high enough clearance for ANYTHING.


It wasnt that he didnt have clearance for it.  It was plausible deniability.

Just because you are TS+, doesnt mean you have access to all TS+ stuff.
Barry doesn't need to know.
2013-03-27 10:03:18 PM
1 votes:

Nutsac_Jim: Lsherm: I don't buy it.  Why would a UFO and aliens in the 50s look exactly like Hollywood thought UFOs looked in the 50s?    A flying saucer?  Please, it doesn't make sense from any aerodynamic or space travel perspective.

You seem to have a good amount of knowledge.  Exactly what does an interstellar spacecraft look like?


img546.imageshack.us
2013-03-27 08:44:55 PM
1 votes:

shower_in_my_socks: meyerkev: There's a pretty good PBS documentary where they basically said that every UFO ever was an experimental plane that they wanted to hide.  Wouldn't be entirely surprised if this was a case of left hand (FBI) being unaware of right hand (USAF secret experiments)

/Forget the name
//But they had actual flying saucers at one point, thanks to Nazi science.


I have lots of family in the US Air Force. One of them told me one time that an associate of his used to operate out of "Area 51" back when it was still secret. According to that guy, the main reason for its secrecy was that we had a Russian MiG fighter, and we didn't want the Russians to know we had it. So we kept it at Area 51.

That, and the well-known fact that we were developing top secret aircrafts like the A-12/SR-71 there.


We had a fair number of MIGs. There are a few books on the subject.  Google Foreign Technology Division.
2013-03-27 08:11:11 PM
1 votes:
forgetomori.com

Why is it every last picture of an alien/UFO/Bigfoot etc. is always some blurry, grainy, poorly lit POS?

When I was a kid back in the 70s I had a cheap 110 instamatic camera that I would run around and snap pictures with. Seeing as I was a kid my parents only bought me the cheapest brand of film available and the camera had scratches and dirt inside and out, but even that crappy old camera took pictures 100% better than these.
2013-03-27 07:59:07 PM
1 votes:

Via Infinito: AdolfOliverPanties: Electromax: Who decides what the President isn't allowed to see?

[www.homevideos.com image 266x176]

/shouldn't be that obscure

OMFG Is that from Dreamscape????


Yup.  "You ever run into a smooth, corporate type by the name of Bob Blair?  He's in charge of it.  Presidents come and go, Bob Blair stays."

/or something like that.
2013-03-27 07:02:57 PM
1 votes:
Look, there are no aliens.  We're the only ones in the universe.  Period.

/some people actually believe this.
2013-03-27 06:26:19 PM
1 votes:

runner_one: gweilo8888: because they would face the same rules of physics that we do -- rules that make the energy required to get large numbers of space craft out of orbit too prohibitively expensive for it to be worthwhile on a regular basis, and doubly so for long-distance manned travel that requires not only the individuals but everything required to keep them alive for months, years, or generations.

</sarcasm>I am glad to know we know all there is to know about  physics.</sarcasm>
in less than 200 years we went from horse and buggy to walking on the Moon and sending robots to Mars. Do you really believe that a race 200, 2000 or even 20000 years advanced beyond us would fail to accomplish stuff that would seem, like magic to us?

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.Arthur C. Clarke



In The Right Stuff Chuck Yeager says of the sound barrier, "If you ask me, I don't think the thing even exists."  I'm of that opinion about obstacles to FTL flight.  Screw Einstein.  He didn't know everything.  He got divorced and married his cousin.  Are you really going to take the word of that man putting limits on you?
2013-03-27 06:18:32 PM
1 votes:
gweilo8888:
FTFA's comments: "there's so much blotted out on the stuff they did release, it makes them look guilty. j allen hynek was put in charge of debunking ufo sightings back in the 60s. in the end, he confirmed it and said there were some sightings he couldn't explain. 100 million galaxies times 100 million stars each, if you do the math its a 10 with 20 zeros "

Oh, shiat. The tinfoil hat brigade's out in force again.

Yes, the number of galaxies, stars, and planets makes it a near-certainty life has evolved independently in other places too. I'll even grant you that it's reasonably likely that there are more evolved civilizations than our own, capable of long-distance, manned (aliened?) space travel.

However, that very same number of galaxies, stars, and planets also makes it a near-certainty that they've never been anywhere near us. There are just too many other planets for them to have travelled to -- heck, even to have catalogued and hoped to one day travel to -- for them to have noticed and decided it was worth visiting our own.

And it's far more likely that they're in a similar situation to us, with space travel largely unmanned and relatively rare, because they would face the same rules of physics that we do -- rules that make the energy required to get large numbers of space craft out of orbit too prohibitively expensive for it to be worthwhile on a regular basis, and doubly so for long-distance manned travel that requires not only the individuals but everything required to keep them alive for months, years, or generations..



 However, the chances are that the "aliens" weren't saddled with stories of a sociopath for a god and his son didn't walk on water and thus didn't go through dark ages for 1000 years. They probably didn't have an economic system as flawed as capitalism for as long as we've had it and actually used the advancement in techonology to pursue scientific advances instead of short term profits.

If you put that in your equation I think you'll find that we have aliens living amongs us right now.
2013-03-27 06:10:51 PM
1 votes:

Caffandtranqs: Delawheredad: My crazy mother in law used to send memos addressed to Hoover ALL the time. She would read the scandal rags and conclude who the guilty party was and send J. Edgar himself a memo about it. She was so persistent and so profoundly irritating that the FBI called our county cops to see if they could do something about her!
Yes my late mother in law harassed the FBI! Mrs Kravitz had nothing on my mother in law.

Sounds like she was either fearless or a operating with a few screws loose.  Having contact with the FBI seems like a nightmare to me.


What you really want to avoid is the FBI having contact with you.
2013-03-27 06:02:26 PM
1 votes:
meyerkev:  they had actual flying saucers at one point, thanks to Nazi science.

Yep, totally. Well apart from the "Nazi" thing. It was Brits and Canadians, with US military funding.

And the "flying" bit is a little misleading -- they flew after a fashion. Which is to say, several feet off the ground. They couldn't get out of ground effect while retaining stable flight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_VZ-9_Avrocar

Or are you referring to the Vought XF5U? I'm guessing not, because really it looked nothing like a flying saucer, but it's the next nearest thing. And it never really flew at all. It just taxied and tried to shake itself to pieces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vought_XF5U

FTFA's comments: "there's so much blotted out on the stuff they did release, it makes them look guilty. j allen hynek was put in charge of debunking ufo sightings back in the 60s. in the end, he confirmed it and said there were some sightings he couldn't explain. 100 million galaxies times 100 million stars each, if you do the math its a 10 with 20 zeros "

Oh, shiat. The tinfoil hat brigade's out in force again.

Yes, the number of galaxies, stars, and planets makes it a near-certainty life has evolved independently in other places too. I'll even grant you that it's reasonably likely that there are more evolved civilizations than our own, capable of long-distance, manned (aliened?) space travel.

However, that very same number of galaxies, stars, and planets also makes it a near-certainty that they've never been anywhere near us. There are just too many other planets for them to have travelled to -- heck, even to have catalogued and hoped to one day travel to -- for them to have noticed and decided it was worth visiting our own.

And it's far more likely that they're in a similar situation to us, with space travel largely unmanned and relatively rare, because they would face the same rules of physics that we do -- rules that make the energy required to get large numbers of space craft out of orbit too prohibitively expensive for it to be worthwhile on a regular basis, and doubly so for long-distance manned travel that requires not only the individuals but everything required to keep them alive for months, years, or generations..
2013-03-27 05:58:10 PM
1 votes:

Lsherm: I don't buy it.  Why would a UFO and aliens in the 50s look exactly like Hollywood thought UFOs looked in the 50s?    A flying saucer?   Please, it doesn't make sense from any aerodynamic or space travel perspective.


Are you a super advanced alien being that has mastered inter galactic space travel. Didn't think so.  Maybe they know more about aerodynamics and space travel than you.
2013-03-27 05:45:24 PM
1 votes:
The FBI should put up billboards, TV and radio ads and web advertisements on popular sites saying that there is no coverup of space aliens, just to clarify.
2013-03-27 05:24:05 PM
1 votes:

maniacbastard: Lsherm: Please, it doesn't make sense from any aerodynamic or space travel perspective.

I'm not a UFO fan but an aerospace engineer, the shape of some UFOs would make them good reentry vehicles if their undersides are smooth and spherical.

Jus' sayin!



www.extremetech.com
2013-03-27 05:19:02 PM
1 votes:

AdolfOliverPanties: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 400x238]
[forgetomori.com image 500x596]



I have pictures too!!

img543.imageshack.us
2013-03-27 05:15:51 PM
1 votes:
I miss the Weekly World News.
2013-03-27 05:13:16 PM
1 votes:

LordJiro: The odds against ANY alien life living anywhere near Earth (and existing at the same time as humanity) are astronomical. Let alone intelligent creatures with recognizably humanoid features who live near enough to visit

Sorry, sci-fi fans.


Pretty much this.
2013-03-27 05:11:38 PM
1 votes:
My crazy mother in law used to send memos addressed to Hoover ALL the time. She would read the scandal rags and conclude who the guilty party was and send J. Edgar himself a memo about it. She was so persistent and so profoundly irritating that the FBI called our county cops to see if they could do something about her!
Yes my late mother in law harassed the FBI! Mrs Kravitz had nothing on my mother in law.
2013-03-27 05:04:56 PM
1 votes:
Anybody who expects anything from government agencies besides a hard way to go, malarkey and a bill hasn't been paying attention.
2013-03-27 05:01:43 PM
1 votes:

ferretman: Roswell happened (supposedly) in 1947...before Hollywood's UFO versions.


And the term Flying Saucer pretty much made Hollywood pin it on the nose for looks.  It wasn't til like the 70s/80s with shows like BSG and Hitchhiker's did Saucers go away and turn into ships.
2013-03-27 05:00:25 PM
1 votes:

moos: nature abhors a vacuum.


so does my wife.
so does my wife.
2013-03-27 04:42:11 PM
1 votes:

Lsherm: I don't buy it.  Why would a UFO and aliens in the 50s look exactly like Hollywood thought UFOs looked in the 50s?    A flying saucer?  Please, it doesn't make sense from any aerodynamic or space travel perspective.


They've been drip fed Paul's picture for the last 60 plus years so people wouldn't freak out.

I have to watch that movie again tonight.
2013-03-27 04:42:11 PM
1 votes:

Lsherm: I don't buy it.  Why would a UFO and aliens in the 50s look exactly like Hollywood thought UFOs looked in the 50s?    A flying saucer?  Please, it doesn't make sense from any aerodynamic or space travel perspective.


Roswell happened (supposedly) in 1947...before Hollywood's UFO versions.
2013-03-27 04:39:42 PM
1 votes:

AdolfOliverPanties: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 400x238]
[forgetomori.com image 500x596]


Jeez...the Chinese invent gunpowder first and now proof that they created flying saucers!
 
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