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(Bloomberg)   I Can't Drive 55 ..... Miles: Abolishing the U.S. gasoline tax and replacing it with a levy based on miles driven could happen "tomorrow" regardless of hurdles   (bloomberg.com) divider line 372
    More: Interesting, Steve LaTourette, gasoline taxes, Federal Highway Administration, Infrastructure Committee, Highway Trust Fund, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, Republican Main Street Partnership, House Transportation  
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13839 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Mar 2013 at 10:43 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-27 10:27:04 PM  
It's okay ... my big V8 burns every drop of gas your Prius doesn't ... :-D

sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net

badges.fuelly.com
 
2013-03-27 10:39:58 PM  

Hollie Maea: Aw shiat...I got ignored again due to another climate change / Electric Vehicles argument.  I didn't think my arguments were that unreasonable but I obviously hit a nerve.

/Seriously not trying to troll, but I consider this shiat to be important.  Also not "anti freedom" but I just don't think that "freedom to pollute for free" is a legitimate freedom.


What is unreasonable is your "fine them and jail them" attitude towards anyone who balks at another beurocratic nightmare invading what privacy we have left.  You come across as a jack-booted environmental thug.

Although you mentioned riding public transport in Portland, so I guess that goes with the territory.
 
2013-03-27 11:02:22 PM  
We could slightly lower the subsidies we give Big Oil.  Beside providing an admitedly small cut in the defict it would also result in a slight increase in consumer prices.  I don't know about other states but our state has a sales tax built in to gas prices (yes, we pay tax on our tax) so that would be more money for the state.
 
2013-03-27 11:03:35 PM  

Skyd1v: Hollie Maea: Aw shiat...I got ignored again due to another climate change / Electric Vehicles argument.  I didn't think my arguments were that unreasonable but I obviously hit a nerve.

/Seriously not trying to troll, but I consider this shiat to be important.  Also not "anti freedom" but I just don't think that "freedom to pollute for free" is a legitimate freedom.

What is unreasonable is your "fine them and jail them" attitude towards anyone who balks at another beurocratic nightmare invading what privacy we have left.  You come across as a jack-booted environmental thug.

Although you mentioned riding public transport in Portland, so I guess that goes with the territory.


We fine and jail other people who get caught doing tax fraud. There is nothing extreme about that.
 
2013-03-27 11:05:06 PM  

ProfessorOhki: People_are_Idiots: JackieRabbit: As electric and hybrid cars steadily take over, the revenues generated by gas taxes will decline. So we have to start thinking about alternatives. I don't think taxing the number of miles driven is the best answer. It may be better for the federal government to levy a transportation payroll tax and use the money to improve public transportation. They could apportion some of the revenue to the states so that state gas taxes could also be eliminated. But they'd have to earmark the funds for infrastructure and public transportation use, lest the states divert the funds to other uses. A payroll tax would take the sting out for citizens, since a smaller sum would be paid each pay period instead of in a lump sum. It would also allow for those who do not drive automobiles to share in the nation's transportation system rather than just pay a train or bus fare that doesn't come near meeting maintenance and development costs.

Problem with that. Hybrids and electrics are no longer "en vogue," due to the reality hitting the people in the face. What reality? They aren't effective alternatives to the standard gas engine, and in some cases more expensive, more polluting (depending who provides the electricity to your car), and a bit more dangerous. Heck, despite the number of hybrid models doubling, hybrid sales have dropped from 2.8% in 2008 to 2.4% in 2012. Matter of fact, in 2012, only 35% of those who bought into the hybrids look at hybrids again for a new vehicle.

If the gas tax goes away and the mile tax hits, even more people will be discouraged to switch, while I'll be busy driving my pickup around.

/still wants my air-powered car.

The hybrids did what they needed to do though, which was kick the industry in the ass a bit. If it wasn't for Prius and co. making fuel efficiency trendy, we wouldn't be seeing all these small 4 cylinder turbos. We'd still be doing, "put a V12 in that commuter car, AMERICA!"


Mhmm... I have a 6-banger, tyvm. As a truck, it gets 27-29 miles per gallon. Wanna know what happened to it? Ford discontinued it so it can roll out more F-150s (which sucks on the gas pump). More of what I see are Hummers and high-end SUVs, with maybe an occasional overblown golf cart. Any Civic I see here are at least 10 years older... And the reason we're getting better mileage is not from hybrids, it is from the regulations taking effect that the government put in place a while ago, bumping MPG up.
 
2013-03-27 11:05:54 PM  
Also, the tax that people would be fined and jailed for cheating has nothing to do with environmentalism. It is the usage tax that would be used for road maintenance. The environmentalism tax would be the gas tax, which, obviously, would not be possible to cheat.

Please do try to keep up.
 
2013-03-27 11:06:06 PM  

seadoo2006: It's okay ... my big V8 burns every drop of gas your Prius doesn't ... :-D


Aww, cute.  Your mom let you borrow her car.  [Insert "Your mom let me..." joke here.]
 
2013-03-27 11:18:34 PM  

No Line For Beer: seadoo2006: It's okay ... my big V8 burns every drop of gas your Prius doesn't ... :-D

Aww, cute.  Your mom let you borrow her car.  [Insert "Your mom let me..." joke here.]


Yes, my mom ... meh ... nice try. Yawn ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZvnN0I7ZTw
 
2013-03-27 11:21:20 PM  

Hollie Maea: Also, the tax that people would be fined and jailed for cheating has nothing to do with environmentalism. It is the usage tax that would be used for road maintenance. The environmentalism tax would be the gas tax, which, obviously, would not be possible to cheat.

Please do try to keep up.


Keep up?  With the likes of you?  I think not.  I have read your posts filled with condescending remarks combined with a strident call to regulate everything you don't "like".  To include creating new and inventive ways of punishing or imprisoning those who don't toe your line.  I don't much care to keep up with anyone on that path.

You do show up in "Troll Green #2" now, so you have that going for you, which is nice.
 
2013-03-27 11:23:47 PM  

Skyd1v: Hollie Maea: Also, the tax that people would be fined and jailed for cheating has nothing to do with environmentalism. It is the usage tax that would be used for road maintenance. The environmentalism tax would be the gas tax, which, obviously, would not be possible to cheat.

Please do try to keep up.

Keep up?  With the likes of you?  I think not.  I have read your posts filled with condescending remarks combined with a strident call to regulate everything you don't "like".  To include creating new and inventive ways of punishing or imprisoning those who don't toe your line.  I don't much care to keep up with anyone on that path.

You do show up in "Troll Green #2" now, so you have that going for you, which is nice.


heh...
 
2013-03-27 11:39:14 PM  

Skyd1v: Hollie Maea: Also, the tax that people would be fined and jailed for cheating has nothing to do with environmentalism. It is the usage tax that would be used for road maintenance. The environmentalism tax would be the gas tax, which, obviously, would not be possible to cheat.

Please do try to keep up.

Keep up?  With the likes of you?  I think not.  I have read your posts filled with condescending remarks combined with a strident call to regulate everything you don't "like".  To include creating new and inventive ways of punishing or imprisoning those who don't toe your line.  I don't much care to keep up with anyone on that path.

You do show up in "Troll Green #2" now, so you have that going for you, which is nice.


Oh well.  Looks like we are stuck with using gas tax to pay for infrastructure, which means that you get to subsidize my electric car.  At least it will give you something to whine about.
 
2013-03-28 12:17:59 AM  

Donnchadha: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Donnchadha: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: You're interpretive brain cells aren't working too well, are they?

Your trolling is bad and you should feel bad.

DEF: Troll: Someone who says something you disagree with. PURPOSE: Much easier than coming up with, you know, a rational counterargument.

I shouldn't respond to you. You're a farking troll, and I know it - and you know it. But you're an idiot too.

I said "If they do X, I'm for it".

You "corrected" it for me to say "If they do X Y, I'm for it"

I respond saying, "No, I wouldn't support Y. I'd support X." There's nothing in there about the likelihood of X or Y or if the politicians would say "This is totally for X!" while writing a bill to make it about Y instead.

You respond by trying to insult me, then claim I need to make a rational counter argument? A counter argument to what exactly? You haven't made a rational argument in the first place about ANYTHING that I could possibly respond to.

The rest of us are now dumber for being the same thread as you. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. Good day.


Sigh. My original point may have been too nuanced for you. The point being that - regardless of the issue or item, the government generally spends money on things like pensions and shiny toys that go boom. The last time anyone actually spend a bundle on major Infrastructure was under Eisenhower (Interstate Highway System). Prior to that it was Roosevelt as make-work for the WPA.

But please, continue with the name calling. THAT makes this thread dumber.
 
2013-03-28 12:28:16 AM  

Hollie Maea: Skyd1v: Hollie Maea: Also, the tax that people would be fined and jailed for cheating has nothing to do with environmentalism. It is the usage tax that would be used for road maintenance. The environmentalism tax would be the gas tax, which, obviously, would not be possible to cheat.

Please do try to keep up.

Keep up?  With the likes of you?  I think not.  I have read your posts filled with condescending remarks combined with a strident call to regulate everything you don't "like".  To include creating new and inventive ways of punishing or imprisoning those who don't toe your line.  I don't much care to keep up with anyone on that path.

You do show up in "Troll Green #2" now, so you have that going for you, which is nice.

Oh well.  Looks like we are stuck with using gas tax to pay for infrastructure, which means that you get to subsidize my electric car.  At least it will give you something to whine about.


And why, exactly, would I do that?  My comments were regarding your willingness to over-complicate the situation and make criminals out of anyone who objects.  I think we have more than enough of THAT already, thankyaverramuch.

I hope that EV brings you lots of joy and opportunity to spread plenty of smug.  I'd get one myself if they made one that could haul a boat, 2 4-wheelers, and a couple of dead caribou 400 miles in 0 degree temps.
 
2013-03-28 12:37:48 AM  

People_are_Idiots: The hybrids did what they needed to do though, which was kick the industry in the ass a bit. If it wasn't for Prius and co. making fuel efficiency trendy, we wouldn't be seeing all these small 4 cylinder turbos. We'd still be doing, "put a V12 in that commuter car, AMERICA!"

Mhmm... I have a 6-banger, tyvm. As a truck, it gets 27-29 miles per gallon. Wanna know what happened to it? Ford discontinued it so it can roll out more F-150s (which sucks on the gas pump). More of what I see are Hummers and high-end SUVs, with maybe an occasional overblown golf cart. Any Civic I see here are at least 10 years older... And the reason we're getting better mileage is not from hybrids, it is from the regulations taking effect that the government put in place a while ago, bumping MPG up.


The story I always heard is they intentionally got away from the small-truck type class and went to full truck chassis pickups/SUVs specifically because that class's use as work/fleet vehicles made them practically off-limits for efficiency regulation; the regulation is what caused the stuff like your truck to disappear. As far as hybrids, I'm just saying they brought the entire issue of fuel efficiency into the spotlight in a trendy way. There were fuel-efficient vehicles long before, of course. The novelty of the Prius was just the iPod of efficient vehicles. "OMG, Honda invented a car that gets more than 30 mpg, this is ground-breaking, GET ME A REPORTER OUT THERE!"
 
2013-03-28 12:39:46 AM  

Skyd1v: Hollie Maea: Skyd1v: Hollie Maea: Also, the tax that people would be fined and jailed for cheating has nothing to do with environmentalism. It is the usage tax that would be used for road maintenance. The environmentalism tax would be the gas tax, which, obviously, would not be possible to cheat.

Please do try to keep up.

Keep up?  With the likes of you?  I think not.  I have read your posts filled with condescending remarks combined with a strident call to regulate everything you don't "like".  To include creating new and inventive ways of punishing or imprisoning those who don't toe your line.  I don't much care to keep up with anyone on that path.

You do show up in "Troll Green #2" now, so you have that going for you, which is nice.

Oh well.  Looks like we are stuck with using gas tax to pay for infrastructure, which means that you get to subsidize my electric car.  At least it will give you something to whine about.

And why, exactly, would I do that?  My comments were regarding your willingness to over-complicate the situation and make criminals out of anyone who objects.  I think we have more than enough of THAT already, thankyaverramuch.


Sigh.  The thread went something like this: "EV drivers are not paying their fair share for road maintenance because they don't pay gas tax".  "OK, we should change to a mileage based usage tax so that everyone pays for the roads that they use."  "Argh, but if you set up any mileage based system, people will just cheat the system (disconnecting odometers, disabling GPS devices, etc)"  "Well, of course there would be penalties to deter cheaters, like there are for all tax frauds"  "Argh!  Why do you want to penalize people you socialist environazi?"  "OK looks like we have to stick with gas tax, with EV drivers not  paying their fair share"  "Why would you say that?"

And I'm the farking troll?

I hope that EV brings you lots of joy and opportunity to spread plenty of smug.  I'd get one myself if they made one that could haul a boat, 2 4-wheelers, and a couple of dead caribou 400 miles in 0 degree temps.

I'm not driving EVs to be smug.  Tired meme is tired.  I'm driving EVs because they have a lot of advantages, and I am saving a lot of money.  I happen to like the fact that they pollute less, but that's pretty far down the list.  I really don't have any problem whatsoever with you driving a gas powered vehicle.  I just think you should pay for the pollution that it causes.
 
2013-03-28 01:10:08 AM  

ProfessorOhki: People_are_Idiots: The hybrids did what they needed to do though, which was kick the industry in the ass a bit. If it wasn't for Prius and co. making fuel efficiency trendy, we wouldn't be seeing all these small 4 cylinder turbos. We'd still be doing, "put a V12 in that commuter car, AMERICA!"

Mhmm... I have a 6-banger, tyvm. As a truck, it gets 27-29 miles per gallon. Wanna know what happened to it? Ford discontinued it so it can roll out more F-150s (which sucks on the gas pump). More of what I see are Hummers and high-end SUVs, with maybe an occasional overblown golf cart. Any Civic I see here are at least 10 years older... And the reason we're getting better mileage is not from hybrids, it is from the regulations taking effect that the government put in place a while ago, bumping MPG up.

The story I always heard is they intentionally got away from the small-truck type class and went to full truck chassis pickups/SUVs specifically because that class's use as work/fleet vehicles made them practically off-limits for efficiency regulation; the regulation is what caused the stuff like your truck to disappear. As far as hybrids, I'm just saying they brought the entire issue of fuel efficiency into the spotlight in a trendy way. There were fuel-efficient vehicles long before, of course. The novelty of the Prius was just the iPod of efficient vehicles. "OMG, Honda invented a car that gets more than 30 mpg, this is ground-breaking, GET ME A REPORTER OUT THERE!"


Nope. It's actually because everyone was going for the gas-gulpers for trucks.... and no wonder I hated the Prius, I hate iPods too.
 
2013-03-28 03:15:53 AM  
How about this...  Keep the gas tax for cars that burn gas and add the per mile tax for electric cars.

If people want to buy gas guzzling cars and SUVs, let them.  They'll use more gas and by doing so they'll pay more tax.
 
2013-03-28 06:16:14 AM  

Fark It: jaytkay: You wrongly claimed there is no mass transit outside the Loop.

I said there are no decent mass transit options outside of the city.  I don't have the luxury of a set schedule that I can plan a bus route around, nor do I have the luxury of being able to live wherever I want.  I don't have the privilege of being able to take into account mass transit when it comes to my employment.  For me, and millions of other people, mass transit is not a feasible, reliable option.  It has nothing to do with bus riders being beneath anyone, and I certainly don't "choose" not to use mass transit.  I would gladly take mass transit if I could, but this smug notion that people who don't use mass transit are a bunch of snobs who think they're above common folk or are somehow too good for public transit is horseshiat.




I looked into taking a bus to work, only three busses and FOUR HOURS one way.
 
2013-03-28 06:26:34 AM  

jaytkay: Fark It: jaytkay: You wrongly claimed there is no mass transit outside the Loop.

I said there are no decent mass transit options outside of the city.  I don't have the luxury of a set schedule that I can plan a bus route around, nor do I have the luxury of being able to live wherever I want.  I don't have the privilege of being able to take into account mass transit when it comes to my employment.  For me, and millions of other people, mass transit is not a feasible, reliable option.  It has nothing to do with bus riders being beneath anyone, and I certainly don't "choose" not to use mass transit.  I would gladly take mass transit if I could, but this smug notion that people who don't use mass transit are a bunch of snobs who think they're above common folk or are somehow too good for public transit is horseshiat.

You have no choice about where you live and work?

Are you in prison?




Some people have no choice about where they can AFFORD to live and work.
 
2013-03-28 10:39:38 PM  
Some people have no choice about where they can AFFORD to live and work.

Provide an example.
 
2013-03-29 10:38:04 AM  

alfuso: jaytkay: Fark It: jaytkay: You wrongly claimed there is no mass transit outside the Loop.

I said there are no decent mass transit options outside of the city.  I don't have the luxury of a set schedule that I can plan a bus route around, nor do I have the luxury of being able to live wherever I want.  I don't have the privilege of being able to take into account mass transit when it comes to my employment.  For me, and millions of other people, mass transit is not a feasible, reliable option.  It has nothing to do with bus riders being beneath anyone, and I certainly don't "choose" not to use mass transit.  I would gladly take mass transit if I could, but this smug notion that people who don't use mass transit are a bunch of snobs who think they're above common folk or are somehow too good for public transit is horseshiat.

You have no choice about where you live and work?

Are you in prison?

Some people have no choice about where they can AFFORD to live and work.


Bullchit.
Solve your logistical problems without the self delusion and attitudinal crazy.
 
2013-03-29 02:59:43 PM  

studebaker hoch: Some people have no choice about where they can AFFORD to live and work.

Provide an example.


snocone: alfuso: jaytkay: Fark It: jaytkay: You wrongly claimed there is no mass transit outside the Loop.

I said there are no decent mass transit options outside of the city.  I don't have the luxury of a set schedule that I can plan a bus route around, nor do I have the luxury of being able to live wherever I want.  I don't have the privilege of being able to take into account mass transit when it comes to my employment.  For me, and millions of other people, mass transit is not a feasible, reliable option.  It has nothing to do with bus riders being beneath anyone, and I certainly don't "choose" not to use mass transit.  I would gladly take mass transit if I could, but this smug notion that people who don't use mass transit are a bunch of snobs who think they're above common folk or are somehow too good for public transit is horseshiat.

You have no choice about where you live and work?

Are you in prison?

Some people have no choice about where they can AFFORD to live and work.

Bullchit.
Solve your logistical problems without the self delusion and attitudinal crazy.


Silicon Valley in Northern California.  People who work in the service industry (as opposed to highly paid tech workers) have a difficult time finding affordable housing within a reasonable distance of where they work.  And if you say, "get a different job", you need to STFU.  We've had 10% unemployment here.
 
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