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(Bloomberg)   I Can't Drive 55 ..... Miles: Abolishing the U.S. gasoline tax and replacing it with a levy based on miles driven could happen "tomorrow" regardless of hurdles   (bloomberg.com) divider line 372
    More: Interesting, Steve LaTourette, gasoline taxes, Federal Highway Administration, Infrastructure Committee, Highway Trust Fund, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, Republican Main Street Partnership, House Transportation  
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13835 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Mar 2013 at 10:43 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-27 03:32:57 PM

dready zim: MyRandomName: Land Ark: As the owner of 3 cars that get a total average MPG of 40, and who drives about 5,500 miles a year, I think this is a load of crap and unfair to those who buy fuel eficient cars on purpose.

We live in a society. Why do you choose to avoid paying your fair share. You own 3 cars showing you can pay a fair share.

It`s a fair share decided on usage, not income. You want to tax car ownership? do it at the point of sale. The fair share of road tax, to fix roads and deal with motoring related costs, should be shouldered by the ones causing the damage as a check and balance on them farking things up too much. There should be incentives to get a less damaging vehicle. Mind you, three cars adding up to 40mpg doesn`t sound good. Is one 12mpg, another 13mpg and the last 15mpg?

 
2013-03-27 03:34:35 PM

pciszek: ferretman: Do you even no how many products you use contain petroleum? Just about anything plastic, make-up, lubrication products etc.; all use petroleum derivatives.

But if we weren't burning it as fuel, would we need to import it, or would domestic production be enough?


Petroleum is a small part of a global market. The US exports oil to countries and then the US imports oil from countries. The overall effect of just stopping petroleum would be disastrous on a global scale (economic wise).
 
2013-03-27 03:43:25 PM
Maybe it would help if each person in the picture wasn't making $50k+/yr for standing around:
3.bp.blogspot.com
/but you can't do anything that may affect the Unions....
 
2013-03-27 03:48:29 PM
Just tell me where to send the payment.

I'm tired of complaining and fighting...they win.  Just reach in my wallet and take what you want...I'm sure my kids will be cared for by the government really well once I'm completely broke.
 
2013-03-27 04:01:17 PM

Terrydatroll: Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want but the whole idea is to be able to track vehicles, not make more tax money.


I'm in agreement.

The reason I said I was conflicted is that in theory, people that drive more should pay more (which they do in theory).  When the tax is on fuel that basically incentivizes driving a fuel-efficient vehicle (something the government claims they want people to do).  It really doesn't make sense for the government to disincentivize being fuel efficient other than they will be able to track people which they'd never take advantage of.....very scary stuff.
 
2013-03-27 04:06:13 PM
f you drive a car, I'll tax the street,
If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat.
If you get too cold I'll tax the heat,
If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet.
 
2013-03-27 04:09:27 PM

slayer199: Terrydatroll: Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want but the whole idea is to be able to track vehicles, not make more tax money.

I'm in agreement.

The reason I said I was conflicted is that in theory, people that drive more should pay more (which they do in theory).  When the tax is on fuel that basically incentivizes driving a fuel-efficient vehicle (something the government claims they want people to do).  It really doesn't make sense for the government to disincentivize being fuel efficient other than they will be able to track people which they'd never take advantage of.....very scary stuff.


Nah.  They'll just install more cameras that read and record your licence plates.
As they do right now in DC
 
2013-03-27 04:14:28 PM

ProfessorOhki: I probably did fark up the math somewhere, because 10 mi is way off.


I figured, hence the snark.

/And the fact that I tend to be snarky in EV threads.
 
2013-03-27 04:15:58 PM
I completely support a miles based tax rather than a gas tax. Furthermore, motorcycles should pay the exact same tax as cars. Those freeloading bastards have shirked their fair share for far too long.
 
2013-03-27 04:17:30 PM
Whoops... My odometer just broke....   OOPS!!! the trip meter broke too... I don't know what happened...
 
2013-03-27 04:21:15 PM
On that note, why doesn't the gas guzzler tax apply to mini vans?
 
2013-03-27 04:31:16 PM

FoxKelfonne: jaytkay: FoxKelfonne: So it's at least an 80% increase. Imagine the outrage if they suggested that you pay 80% more taxes in any other area.

Cuz paying an extra $80 is EXACTLY like having your entire income taxed another 80%.

I never suggested it was, but it's still an 80% tax increase, and it's pretty ridiculous. To use another "small tax" example. Current sales tax in Niagara County, NY is 8.75%. If both the state and county sales taxes increased by the same amount to result in an overall 80% increase in sales tax, you'd end up with a 15.75% sales tax rate.
You can say that it's not a big deal, that you're now paying $1.16 for something that used to cost you $1.09, and that you're crying over pennies, but it adds up when you think of all the other taxes you already have to pay, and people even biatched when the sales tax went up from 8.5 to 8.75.


80% increase?

That's nothing.

When I lived in Michigan, they increased the sales tax 150%.  It went from 4% to 6%.  Amazingly, they called it a 2% increase in sales tax, which it also was.

Percentages are fun, aren't they?
 
2013-03-27 04:35:09 PM

5monkeys: cgraves67: OtherBrotherDarryl: How about a tax based on the number of miles driven but where there are incentives/penalties for driving more/less fuel efficient cars (ie, a gas tax).

I was just thinking that. If we had a mileage tax, I'd pay the same in my 4x4 as the guy in the Prius who drives the same distance. With the gas tax, I buy more gas and pay more taxes for the same miles driven. The mileage tax would be far less painful for me than the Prius driver.

I think that is the point. They are losing gas tax money from the people with the fuel efficient cars that they pushed. Now they want that money that they are losing.


This is all fixed with an extra fee on electric and "super efficient" vehicles on the vehicle registration that must be done once per year.
 
2013-03-27 04:40:16 PM
Now my 3-hour commute looks like a bad idea! WAAAAAAHHHH!
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-03-27 04:47:40 PM
Maul555: Whoops... My odometer just broke.... OOPS!!! the trip meter broke too... I don't know what happened...

They will ask your car's computer and your car's computer is not programmed to lie. Copying numbers off instrument displays is 20th century technology.
 
2013-03-27 04:52:14 PM
GPS units in every vehicle that will track you everywhere you go, so they can create a database of your whereabouts in order to something something terrorism

/Those RFID toll cards are awesome to track people with as well.
//You mean setting up a portable scanner in various locations would be considered an invasion of privacy? shiat.
///Well instead you won't mind the automated license plate recognition cameras in the police car then.
///What database? Umm its for just like ummmmm automatically looking for stolen cars and ahhhh expired tags, sure thats it. shut up and go away and quit asking... LALALALALAlallalallalla
 
2013-03-27 04:53:27 PM
My odometer broke a long time ago ... take that Mr. Not-in-Congress-Anymore LaTourette ... Imma gonna go egg your house tonight after work ... see you in hell!
 
2013-03-27 04:53:35 PM

ZAZ: Maul555: Whoops... My odometer just broke.... OOPS!!! the trip meter broke too... I don't know what happened...

They will ask your car's computer and your car's computer is not programmed to lie. Copying numbers off instrument displays is 20th century technology.


my motorcycle has no computer. what now?
 
2013-03-27 04:58:04 PM

Hollie Maea: wambu: Yes, let's do this. There are so many ways to cheat on this tax, many people will never pay any tax at all.

We don't abolish income tax just because people cheat on it.  Tax fraud isn't going anywhere, but severe penalties scare most people away from it.


My point is that as a method of revenue generation, per-mile-driven is certainly more problematic. So why switch to it?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-03-27 05:00:37 PM
The_Original_Roxtar: my motorcycle has no computer. what now?

Your motorcycle uses half the road space of a car and puts less than half as much wear on the pavement. Under the current system it probably brings in a quarter the gas tax revenue of a typical car, half as many miles at twice as many miles per gallon. We can afford a system where some bikers roll back their odometers. They aren't important enough.
 
2013-03-27 05:01:22 PM

Carn: styckx: The real question is why are gas prices continuing to go up when the U.S. oil production is continuing to rise and we are set to become completely self sufficient in oil production in a few years.

Here's how it works according to the oil companies: oil production or supply goes down, gas price goes up because of supply and demand.  Oil production or supply goes up or stays the same, gas prices stays the same or go up because profits, er cuz um uh no seriously we've got a good reason hang on a second...


Put yourself in the shoes of the local gas station.  They have a big oil company name on the outside of the building, but they are just a franchisee.   They pay for that gas to fill up the tanks at the current prices.   When prices go up they have to increase the price or lose money just to compete  and keep bringing in customers to the store (which is where they make most of the money).   So when prices start going back down, the price falls a lot slower than it rises because they are still just trying to get to the break even point and have enough cash to fill the tanks up again...  A lot of people do not know that most gas stations don't make a lot of money on gas.  The gas is just the item that brings customers to the convenience store...  Hell, the government makes more money on gasoline sales than the convenience stores and the oil companies combined.
 
2013-03-27 05:11:28 PM
So my 500lbs motorcycle is causing as much wear on roads as a fully loaded gravel truck, and should be taxed the same? Huh.
 
2013-03-27 05:12:08 PM

Fark It: I think this is bullshiat.  The healthcare program I'm applying for only has a handful of clinical sites that are in the county, some are 90 minutes each way.  Mass transit isn't an option for most people.


I am finishing up a healthcare program with similar issues. I was able to take mass transit for the first semester in the program, but after that there was no way to take mass transit and arrive on time at the assigned clinical site. They send us all over a multi-county area for clinical rotations. I actually had to buy a car for the program; even car-pooling wasn't an option as different cohorts are at different sites at different times.
 
2013-03-27 05:19:18 PM

wambu: Hollie Maea: wambu: Yes, let's do this. There are so many ways to cheat on this tax, many people will never pay any tax at all.

We don't abolish income tax just because people cheat on it.  Tax fraud isn't going anywhere, but severe penalties scare most people away from it.

My point is that as a method of revenue generation, per-mile-driven is certainly more problematic. So why switch to it?


It's more a political problem than anything.  We don't have nearly enough money for upkeep of infrastructure, due to increases in fleet fuel efficiency.  But no one has the political will to increase gas taxes significantly.  So they are blundering around looking for other funding sources.  The bottom line is that having decreased gasoline usage (desired by society) at direct odds with maintained roads (also desired by society) is a terrible idea.  Gasoline taxes should ONLY be a pollution tax, and the revenue from them should ONLY be for developing methods of reducing gasoline usage.  That way when the revenue dries up, it will also be no longer needed.
 
2013-03-27 05:19:52 PM
I'm not sure I understand/believe the idea that driving more fuel efficient vehicles actually helps the country in any way.  First, it does mean less tax revenue for taxing authorities....but it also doesn't really do anything to reduce our dependence on gasoline.  It actually makes driving longer distances more tolerable, making it easy to avoid 'real changes' like not living an hour drive away from where you work or cities investing money in public transportation systems because, without them, people won't live there.
 
2013-03-27 05:27:50 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: It actually makes driving longer distances more tolerable, making it easy to avoid 'real changes' like not living an hour drive away from where you work or cities investing money in public transportation systems because, without them, people won't live there.


Overall usage is declining though.  Some people might be willing to drive farther, but not as much as you would think.  AFAIK, sitting in traffic is a bigger disincentive for long commutes than high cost of gas.
 
2013-03-27 05:33:21 PM
If you think the government is going to get rid of the gas tax, you must be cracked. They'll keep that tax, and add the mileage tax to it's revenue stream.

All you FarkLibtards should be against the abolishment of the gas tax any way, right? Tax cuts don't work.
 
2013-03-27 05:34:44 PM

Hollie Maea: Fark_Guy_Rob: It actually makes driving longer distances more tolerable, making it easy to avoid 'real changes' like not living an hour drive away from where you work or cities investing money in public transportation systems because, without them, people won't live there.

Overall usage is declining though.  Some people might be willing to drive farther, but not as much as you would think.  AFAIK, sitting in traffic is a bigger disincentive for long commutes than high cost of gas.


As a citation for my previous statement, the following link (table 3 on page 10) shows that household vehicle miles travelled peaked during their 2001 survey, and by 2009 was lower than the 2001 and 1995 levels.  In spite of more fuel efficient cars.

http://nhts.ornl.gov/2009/pub/stt.pdf
 
2013-03-27 05:36:25 PM

Tumunga: If you think the government is going to get rid of the gas tax, you must be cracked. They'll keep that tax, and add the mileage tax to it's revenue stream.

All you FarkLibtards should be against the abolishment of the gas tax any way, right? Tax cuts don't work.


Yes, I am against the abolishment of the gas tax.  I think a mileage tax should be added, for infrastructure, and the gas tax should be retained (and increased) as a pollution tax.  I'm tired of subsidizing your pollution.
 
2013-03-27 05:37:02 PM

fugeeface: Donnchadha: NutWrench: They aren't "replacing" shiat. This will be a new tax on top of the existing gasoline tax, no matter what they say.

But if that money gets turned around into improving and updating infrastructure (and also providing jobs in the meantime), I'm all for it.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!1!!

NutWrench is spot on.  And I'm with with you, Donnchadha, but that money will still be funneled to other things.  My Spidey-sense tells me that this is a way to raise moar monies and power, not to be fair to motorists.  Shocking, I know.  I suggest that although the taxes are high, they are plenty enough to maintain the roads and directly-related infrastructure--such as roads, roads, highways, signs, and roads.  Add to that the state and any local revenue to federal taxes already in place. That's a lot of money to fix and maintain the roads.  A major problem is the fine print that allocates a portion of gas taxes to other non-road making/maintaining projects and groups.  It is a complex issue, with endless "studies," corruption, red tape, etc., but ultimately the problem is politicians of ALL stripes taking that money for other purposes other than my aforementioned list.  Like what they've done with Social Security, for example.

/Such as.


Too true.   Here the people in charge have removed money earmarked for road construction to other projects specifically so they can say that there is not enough money and we must install toll roads.  WE MUST!!!!
 
2013-03-27 05:39:00 PM

ZAZ: Maul555: Whoops... My odometer just broke.... OOPS!!! the trip meter broke too... I don't know what happened...

They will ask your car's computer and your car's computer is not programmed to lie. Copying numbers off instrument displays is 20th century technology.


Quite a coincidence, since my truck is also 20th century technology.  No computer to rat me out provide helpful data.
 
2013-03-27 05:44:23 PM

markie_farkie: How about a tax on all the assholes who drive in the left lane TEN MILES UNDER the limit, and refuse to yield to faster traffic..

And by 'tax', I mean 'drone strike'.


YES. THIS. NOW.

/drives the 405 parking lot every morning
 
2013-03-27 05:45:00 PM
This is a power grab looking for an excuse.

Simply put there folks in government that would like to better know where we go and when. Some may even want automated speed enforcement everywhere. Eventually perhaps even leading to needing permission to travel. Once the transponders or number plate readers are in place the possibilities are endless for ways to exploit the technology and infrastructure.

thenewspaper.com already caught government in a lie regarding the revenue reasons for going to this tax by mile model. Their revenues suffered because new heavy truck sales cratered, not because of hybrids.

The gasoline tax is anonymous. It scales with use and vehicle weight pretty well. Your '71 pinto with a 428SCJ stuffed in it or equally a '72 Vega with a 454, not withstanding of course. Then there is the cost of collecting the tax. The infrastructure required for tax by the mile is at present still rather expensive compared to fuel taxes. Meanwhile real fleet fuel economy hasn't changed significantly since the early 1990s. However the value of the dollar has gone down a good deal.

So, the solution, if there was a problem,* would be to increase the tax gas or fix the dollar. Maybe find a way to tax plug in electrics. However, government can 'never waste a crisis', or in this case an opportunity to grab a power that can then be exploited for decades to come.

*considering other areas of government always see road funds as something to re-purpose or raid makes it one of the better funded areas and thus if the diversions were stopped perhaps would have any financial issues greatly reduced if not eliminated.
 
2013-03-27 05:50:12 PM

Hollie Maea: Tumunga: If you think the government is going to get rid of the gas tax, you must be cracked. They'll keep that tax, and add the mileage tax to it's revenue stream.

All you FarkLibtards should be against the abolishment of the gas tax any way, right? Tax cuts don't work.

Yes, I am against the abolishment of the gas tax.  I think a mileage tax should be added, for infrastructure, and the gas tax should be retained (and increased) as a pollution tax.  I'm tired of subsidizing your pollution.


If it's a pollution tax, then the less I drive, the more I should be taxed because I have less pollution?
 
2013-03-27 05:58:27 PM

slayer199: fireclown: Doesn't the gas tax already tax you per mile driven?  And at the same time that it encourages efficient vehicles?  If there is a shortfall, the rate can be increased.  I don't like the idea of a GPS dealiewhatsit logging all my travels to the feds.

Pretty much this.  You know the government will find a way to exploit that GPS data if available.


The way I understand it the thing about ECU (your cars computer) GPS data. In most or all models its real time only, the data is not stored. You can access the data by plugging in or a service like Onstar and find out where a car is right now, but it wont tell you where it was in the past.

It would be easy enough to mandate data storage in new models, but to add it to existing models would be a challenge. All cars with OBDII and newer ECUs would have to have software updates (if they even have sufficient internal memory) and older cars without computers would need some sort of computer attached to them to log the data.
 
2013-03-27 06:07:03 PM
I think I am starting to notice a trend with some people in this thread....   repeat after me:  THE GAS TAX IS NOT FOR INCENTIVISING FUEL EFFICENT VEHICLES.  IT IS FOR PAYING FOR ROAD INFRASTRUCTURE.

The gas tax just happens to incentivise fuel efficient vehicles and some people think that this is the best thing about it.
 
2013-03-27 06:08:31 PM

Land Ark: As the owner of 3 cars that get a total average MPG of 40, and who drives about 5,500 miles a year, I think this is a load of crap and unfair to those who buy fuel eficient cars on purpose.


You pay less tax for the road you use compared to a vehicle that gets less mileage.  It would be fair to charge people with a fuel efficient vehicle more.
 
2013-03-27 06:12:31 PM

ZAZ: Maul555: Whoops... My odometer just broke.... OOPS!!! the trip meter broke too... I don't know what happened...

They will ask your car's computer and your car's computer is not programmed to lie. Copying numbers off instrument displays is 20th century technology.


Whats stopping me from buying a 2nd computer for my car?  They are not too hard to switch out.
 
2013-03-27 06:18:39 PM

Tumunga: Hollie Maea: Tumunga: If you think the government is going to get rid of the gas tax, you must be cracked. They'll keep that tax, and add the mileage tax to it's revenue stream.

All you FarkLibtards should be against the abolishment of the gas tax any way, right? Tax cuts don't work.

Yes, I am against the abolishment of the gas tax.  I think a mileage tax should be added, for infrastructure, and the gas tax should be retained (and increased) as a pollution tax.  I'm tired of subsidizing your pollution.

If it's a pollution tax, then the less I drive, the more I should be taxed because I have less pollution?


WTF are you talking about?
 
2013-03-27 06:21:41 PM

Maul555: I think I am starting to notice a trend with some people in this thread....   repeat after me:  THE GAS TAX IS NOT FOR INCENTIVISING FUEL EFFICENT VEHICLES.  IT IS FOR PAYING FOR ROAD INFRASTRUCTURE.

The gas tax just happens to incentivise fuel efficient vehicles and some people think that this is the best thing about it.


It IS the best thing about it.  Because the other part, paying for road infrastructure, is pants on heads retarded.  Road infrastructure should NOT be tied to gas tax, because we DO want less gas usage but we DON'T want less money for road infrastructure.  Gas taxes, which should be higher than they are now, should ONLY be used to incentivise fuel efficient vehicles.  It should NOT be used to fund anything that we would like to have long term.
 
2013-03-27 06:31:37 PM

Hollie Maea: Maul555: I think I am starting to notice a trend with some people in this thread....   repeat after me:  THE GAS TAX IS NOT FOR INCENTIVISING FUEL EFFICENT VEHICLES.  IT IS FOR PAYING FOR ROAD INFRASTRUCTURE.

The gas tax just happens to incentivise fuel efficient vehicles and some people think that this is the best thing about it.

It IS the best thing about it.  Because the other part, paying for road infrastructure, is pants on heads retarded.  Road infrastructure should NOT be tied to gas tax, because we DO want less gas usage but we DON'T want less money for road infrastructure.  Gas taxes, which should be higher than they are now, should ONLY be used to incentivise fuel efficient vehicles.  It should NOT be used to fund anything that we would like to have long term.


Gas taxes are allready high.  The problem is that politicians keep raiding funds and electric vehicle people seem to thing they deserve a free ride.  Add a fee to super efficent vehicles so that your ultimate dream can come true.  If you do not, then we will be a country full of electric cars driving on dirt.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-03-27 06:34:55 PM
Whats stopping me from buying a 2nd computer for my car? They are not too hard to switch out.

I don't know what happens. I can think of three plausible results:

1. You get away with it.

2. The DMV notices an implausible change in mileage (e.g. backwards) and smacks you, anywhere from felony charges to being charged the maximum rate (say, 30,000 miles).

3. The system notices the change in engine control computer serial number. You have to sign an affidavit of true mileage the same as if you had a mechanical odometer replaced. Last time I checked a car title the transfer part had a space where you wrote down the odometer reading or swore an oath on Ralph Nader's grave that the true reading ought to be ____ no matter what those lying digits said. Mile taxes would need a similar method to make an exception.
 
2013-03-27 06:47:42 PM

Maul555: Too true. Here the people in charge have removed money earmarked for road construction to other projects specifically so they can say that there is not enough money and we must install toll roads. WE MUST!!!!


I did a quick google search on California's transportation budget and fuel taxes.  I'm not sure how accurate my findings are, so take it with a grain of salt.  California collects about 7 billion from the gasoline tax (this doesn't count diesel, which is another big chunk of cash).  It spends about 1.5 billion for maintanence and new roads.  Any California politician who says there is not enough money to fix our shiatty roads is a lying sack of dung.
 
2013-03-27 06:50:23 PM

markie_farkie: How about a tax on all the assholes who drive in the left lane TEN MILES UNDER the limit, and refuse to yield to faster traffic..

And by 'tax', I mean 'drone strike'.


This. And on the flip side, how about a tax on all the assholes who tailgate me when I'm already doing 80 in a 65 mph zone. Which is everyone here in Socal. Slow the fark down!
 
2013-03-27 06:55:47 PM
Maul555:

Gas taxes are allready high.

No they are not.  We are nowhere near internalizing the pollution externality associated with gasoline.

The problem is that politicians keep raiding funds

No, the problem is that gasoline usage per mile has dropped significantly, due to commendable efforts by the government.  While increased fuel efficiency does solve a lot of problems, it does not build or maintain roads.

and electric vehicle people seem to thing they deserve a free ride.

No we don't.  I am a member of an Electric Vehicle association.  Our position, which we have relayed to politicians, is that ALL vehicles should pay a road usage tax that is used for road construction and maintenance, regardless of efficiency or drive train.  What we do NOT support is an additional tax that only targets high efficiency vehicles.  That would be like taxing me for not smoking, just because I don't pay the taxes on cigarettes that smokers do.  If we need more money (we do) then tax everyone.  We also believe that there should ALSO be taxes on gasoline, to internalize the pollution externality and to incentivize fuel efficient vehicles.  This money should not be used for road construction and maintenance.  The usage fee, which we believe that we should also pay, would be for that.  This would end the conflict between fuel efficiency, which society needs, and road maintenance, which society also needs.

Add a fee to super efficent vehicles so that your ultimate dream can come true.

Herp derp derp.  My dream is that we have enough money for roads and other nice things.  Everyone should pay for that.  My other dream is that we can be weaned off gasoline usage for the most part.  Gas taxes should stay high for that.

If you do not, then we will be a country full of electric cars driving on dirt.

Strawman arguments do not help your case.  Most electric vehicles associations have public statements on this issue.  We do not want crumbling infrastructure, and we are more than happy to pay our part on that.  What we are not willing to do is to subsidize cheap gas for you.
 
2013-03-27 07:00:43 PM

Hollie Maea: Tumunga: Hollie Maea: Tumunga: If you think the government is going to get rid of the gas tax, you must be cracked. They'll keep that tax, and add the mileage tax to it's revenue stream.

All you FarkLibtards should be against the abolishment of the gas tax any way, right? Tax cuts don't work.

Yes, I am against the abolishment of the gas tax.  I think a mileage tax should be added, for infrastructure, and the gas tax should be retained (and increased) as a pollution tax.  I'm tired of subsidizing your pollution.

If it's a pollution tax, then the less I drive, the more I should be taxed because I have less pollution?

WTF are you talking about?


You know, as well as I know, ice cream doesn't have bones.
 
2013-03-27 07:05:30 PM
And you wonder why there is ROAD RAGE like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlbabcOKU0g
 
2013-03-27 07:09:27 PM

ThatBillmanGuy: markie_farkie: How about a tax on all the assholes who drive in the left lane TEN MILES UNDER the limit, and refuse to yield to faster traffic..

And by 'tax', I mean 'drone strike'.

This. And on the flip side, how about a tax on all the assholes who tailgate me when I'm already doing 80 in a 65 mph zone. Which is everyone here in Socal. Slow the fark down!


Get out of the left lane!
 
2013-03-27 07:14:19 PM

ZAZ: Maul555: Whoops... My odometer just broke.... OOPS!!! the trip meter broke too... I don't know what happened...

They will ask your car's computer and your car's computer is not programmed to lie. Copying numbers off instrument displays is 20th century technology.


Your computer will do what it is programmed to do.  If it is programmed to lie, it will lie.  There is an active community of car firmware hackers out there.  Want to guess how long it would take them to tweak the mileage reported?
 
2013-03-27 07:15:10 PM

pciszek: bdub77: Hurdles being like huge retail companies like Walmart with fleets of trucks on the road constantly and lots and lots of cash to pay for this bill to die quickly and quietly. Right?

Actually, I'll bet that Walmart would love to have its fleet of trucks pay the same per-mile tax as ordinary cars, instead of paying tax on each gallon of fuel consumed.


Yeah this and a number of other flaws occurred to me after I said it. Not to mention that semi-trailers are harder on the road than cars.

I also think disincentivizing higher MPG cars is a bad thing. In fact this whole bill pretty much sucks. The gas tax works because it already reflects miles driven and the cars with worse gas mileage are bigger and harder on the road so they pay more for the use of the road.

If lost revenue is an issue, just raise the gas tax more. If that means the cost of gas goes up by $1 or more, it also means people will go for higher MPG cars and trucks. It's a win-win for improving emissions.  Eventually the gas tax prices gas out of the market and EVs take over.
 
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