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(Bloomberg)   I Can't Drive 55 ..... Miles: Abolishing the U.S. gasoline tax and replacing it with a levy based on miles driven could happen "tomorrow" regardless of hurdles   (bloomberg.com) divider line 372
    More: Interesting, Steve LaTourette, gasoline taxes, Federal Highway Administration, Infrastructure Committee, Highway Trust Fund, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, Republican Main Street Partnership, House Transportation  
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13839 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Mar 2013 at 10:43 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-27 01:57:15 PM  

Land Ark: As the owner of 3 cars that get a total average MPG of 40, and who drives about 5,500 miles a year, I think this is a load of crap and unfair to those who buy fuel eficient cars on purpose.


We live in a society. Why do you choose to avoid paying your fair share. You own 3 cars showing you can pay a fair share.
 
2013-03-27 01:58:20 PM  

D135: Raise the farking rate... What?


All right now baby, it's all right now
All right now baby, it's all right now
Let me tell you now
I took her home to my place, watching every move on her face
She said, "Look, what's your game, baby?
Are you tryin' to tax me in shame?"
I said, "Slow, don't go so fast
Don't you think that fuel can last?"
She said, "Fuel, lord alive, now you're gonna trick me to drive"
All right now baby, it's all right now
All right now baby, it's all right now
Yeah, it's alright now
 
2013-03-27 01:59:24 PM  

farm machine: How exactly would they verify the miles you've driven?  Will this cause government to then create mileage attestation stations where we'd all need to stop in at once each year?  Hire employees to work those stations and charge us $20 for the convenience?  Take additional properties off the real property tax rolls to setup said stations?


Simple: they'd look at your odometer. Just as they do in every state that has vehicle inspections. It's one of the things they fill out on inspection reports.

But yeah, it's a big lose for the people who have made the choice to drive smaller, fuel-efficient cars, and a big win for the people with the big, inefficient vehicles. People who, not surprisingly, are not poor.
 
2013-03-27 02:01:04 PM  

People_are_Idiots: JackieRabbit: As electric and hybrid cars steadily take over, the revenues generated by gas taxes will decline. So we have to start thinking about alternatives. I don't think taxing the number of miles driven is the best answer. It may be better for the federal government to levy a transportation payroll tax and use the money to improve public transportation. They could apportion some of the revenue to the states so that state gas taxes could also be eliminated. But they'd have to earmark the funds for infrastructure and public transportation use, lest the states divert the funds to other uses. A payroll tax would take the sting out for citizens, since a smaller sum would be paid each pay period instead of in a lump sum. It would also allow for those who do not drive automobiles to share in the nation's transportation system rather than just pay a train or bus fare that doesn't come near meeting maintenance and development costs.

Problem with that. Hybrids and electrics are no longer "en vogue," due to the reality hitting the people in the face. What reality? They aren't effective alternatives to the standard gas engine, and in some cases more expensive, more polluting (depending who provides the electricity to your car), and a bit more dangerous. Heck, despite the number of hybrid models doubling, hybrid sales have dropped from 2.8% in 2008 to 2.4% in 2012. Matter of fact, in 2012, only 35% of those who bought into the hybrids look at hybrids again for a new vehicle.

If the gas tax goes away and the mile tax hits, even more people will be discouraged to switch, while I'll be busy driving my pickup around.

/still wants my air-powered car.


The hybrids did what they needed to do though, which was kick the industry in the ass a bit. If it wasn't for Prius and co. making fuel efficiency trendy, we wouldn't be seeing all these small 4 cylinder turbos. We'd still be doing, "put a V12 in that commuter car, AMERICA!"
 
2013-03-27 02:01:56 PM  

Donnchadha: NutWrench: They aren't "replacing" shiat. This will be a new tax on top of the existing gasoline tax, no matter what they say.

But if that money gets turned around into improving and updating infrastructure (and also providing jobs in the meantime), I'm all for it.


Do you actually believe that is how the money will be spent?
 
2013-03-27 02:02:56 PM  

MyRandomName: Land Ark: As the owner of 3 cars that get a total average MPG of 40, and who drives about 5,500 miles a year, I think this is a load of crap and unfair to those who buy fuel eficient cars on purpose.

We live in a society. Why do you choose to avoid paying your fair share. You own 3 cars showing you can pay a fair share.


It`s a fair share decided on usage, not income. You want to tax car ownership? do it at the point of sale. The fair share of road tax, to fix roads and deal with motoring related costs, should be shouldered by the ones causing the damage as a check and balance on them farking things up too much. There should be incentives to get a less damaging vehicle. Mind you, three cars adding up to 40mpg doesn`t sound good. Is one 12mpg, another 13mpg and the last 15mpg?
 
2013-03-27 02:03:02 PM  

farkturf: It's only fair. All those 1 percenters who can afford Teslas and other electric cars don't have to pay gas taxes now. How else would we be able to pay for the highways once electric cars get cheap enough for the rabble to afford?


My all-electric Leaf only costs me $199 a month. How much a month do you spend on gas?
 
2013-03-27 02:03:31 PM  
This will turn into a complicated system where a special new Congressionaly  appointed committee of 12 former union bosses get $120,000 each a year for copy pasting manufacturers estimated MPG for each model of car  to a new 3000 page law that requires you to fill out a 20 page form requiring your receipts for mandatory quarterly   tire pressure inspections and adding tax penalties fror gameday flags, reindeer antlers, tennis balls and  heavy duty windshield wipers that if left unreported could bring a $5000.00 fine or 2 months in jail.
F them all in the A!
 
2013-03-27 02:05:53 PM  

OgreMagi: Donnchadha: NutWrench: They aren't "replacing" shiat. This will be a new tax on top of the existing gasoline tax, no matter what they say.

But if that money gets turned around into improving and updating infrastructure (and also providing jobs in the meantime), I'm all for it.

Do you actually believe that is how the money will be spent?


No, but it is how it SHOULD be spent and quite often given a sheen of a lie that it actually is how it is spent by just not telling us what it really is spent on unless pushed. I too would be all for it if that would happen.
 
2013-03-27 02:06:56 PM  

Worldwalker: farm machine: How exactly would they verify the miles you've driven?  Will this cause government to then create mileage attestation stations where we'd all need to stop in at once each year?  Hire employees to work those stations and charge us $20 for the convenience?  Take additional properties off the real property tax rolls to setup said stations?

Simple: they'd look at your odometer. Just as they do in every state that has vehicle inspections. It's one of the things they fill out on inspection reports.

But yeah, it's a big lose for the people who have made the choice to drive smaller, fuel-efficient cars, and a big win for the people with the big, inefficient vehicles. People who, not surprisingly, are not poor.


Just weight the mileage tax by the EPA numbers for the car and/or its smog numbers (if applicable), or even vehicle weight. There, 50 miles in a Prius is less than 50 miles in a Suburban, but the guy driving 50 miles in an full EV still pays for infrastructure. It's not like it has to be all one or the other, just make the mileage part cover the wear due to mileage.
 
2013-03-27 02:09:06 PM  

dready zim: MyRandomName: Land Ark: As the owner of 3 cars that get a total average MPG of 40, and who drives about 5,500 miles a year, I think this is a load of crap and unfair to those who buy fuel eficient cars on purpose.

We live in a society. Why do you choose to avoid paying your fair share. You own 3 cars showing you can pay a fair share.

It`s a fair share decided on usage, not income. You want to tax car ownership? do it at the point of sale. The fair share of road tax, to fix roads and deal with motoring related costs, should be shouldered by the ones causing the damage as a check and balance on them farking things up too much. There should be incentives to get a less damaging vehicle. Mind you, three cars adding up to 40mpg doesn`t sound good. Is one 12mpg, another 13mpg and the last 15mpg?


Are you kidding, it's great. If he can drive three cars for a combined 40MPG, that's each car getting 120MPG. I wonder how he reaches all the pedals though.
 
2013-03-27 02:15:01 PM  
Summary: Fark you Electric, Hybrid, and high-mileage vehicles.
 
2013-03-27 02:16:54 PM  

Fark It: I think this is bullshiat.  The healthcare program I'm applying for only has a handful of clinical sites that are in the county, some are 90 minutes each way.  Mass transit isn't an option for most people.  Why go after motorists when you could go after the trucking and freight industries?  An empty truck with trailer is at least 30,000 lbs, and they can weigh up to 80,000 lbs when they're loaded up with cargo.  That wears down infrastructure a lot more than my car....


Don't be so quick to bash the trucking industry.  If you've got it, a truck brought it, period.

Trucking already pays more than its fair share of tax:

The average truck gets (if lucky) 7 MPG, so clearly there is more tax paid at the pump.

Licensing (depending upon the state you're in) runs on average $2,000 per truck, per year.

Heavy highway tax to the feds of $575 per year per truck.

Highway use tax varies by state... in some states it's .15/mile.

Federal Excise Tax is 12.5% of all new trucks and tires purchased.  Imagine buying a $20,000 car and paying an additional $2,500 on top of that for FET.

Compliance with EPA, DOT, etc. regulations has increased the average purchase price for a new truck  from $70,000 to $135,000 in the past ten years.

And in order to haul to California, you need a new truck.

And you wonder why the cost of milk ain't what it used to be.  It's expensive to haul it, and trucking companies can't do it for free.
 
2013-03-27 02:19:01 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Just weight the mileage tax by the EPA numbers for the car and/or its smog numbers (if applicable), or even vehicle weight. There, 50 miles in a Prius is less than 50 miles in a Suburban, but the guy driving 50 miles in an full EV still pays for infrastructure. It's not like it has to be all one or the other, just make the mileage part cover the wear due to mileage.


But that's not how they've proposed doing it. They want to make 50 miles in a Prius cost exactly as much as 50 miles in a Suburban. They see another way of getting money out of the little guy and benefiting the big guy. Given that our laws are made by millionaires, bought and paid for by billionaires (or billion-dollar corporations) they're not going to something that would hurt themselves.
 
2013-03-27 02:19:40 PM  

dready zim: OgreMagi: Donnchadha: NutWrench: They aren't "replacing" shiat. This will be a new tax on top of the existing gasoline tax, no matter what they say.

But if that money gets turned around into improving and updating infrastructure (and also providing jobs in the meantime), I'm all for it.

Do you actually believe that is how the money will be spent?

No, but it is how it SHOULD be spent and quite often given a sheen of a lie that it actually is how it is spent by just not telling us what it really is spent on unless pushed. I too would be all for it if that would happen.


I don't believe that it will be spent strictly on infrastructure, nor do I think you could possibly enforce that it would. Oddly, Dilbert (and Dogbert) have something appropriate to say about it too:

caracaschronicles.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-27 02:20:42 PM  

MugzyBrown: Zeb Hesselgresser: Miles-Driven Could Replace Augment Gasoline Tax, LaTourette Says Never fails

In PA we still pay the Johnstown Flood Tax.


I'm well aware; I'm a regular contributor myself.  It is a perfect example of why we can't have nice things.

http://www.johnstownfloodtax.com/
 
2013-03-27 02:20:43 PM  

IamAwake: The biggest reason I ride a motorcycle is the environmental benefits;


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_pollution

Noise can have a detrimental effect on wild animals, increasing the risk of death by changing the delicate balance in predator or prey detection and avoidance, and interfering the use of the sounds in communication, especially in relation to reproduction and in navigation. Acoustic overexposure can lead to temporary or permanent loss of hearing.


So, will you be buying an electric scooter, or are you in the "loud pipes save lives" crowd?
 
2013-03-27 02:21:25 PM  
Just cause this is a gasoline chat, and because I love the details of energy & cost, here's my historical household energy use:

Monthly average
2011: gasoline = $212 electricity = $83
2012: gasoline = $280 electricity = $56
2013: gasoline = $56   electricity = $70

Since the summer hasn't hit and my solar panels aren't pumping out much yet for 2013, I expect my monthly electricity to go way down this year, even with an electric car. Keep in mind I have no propane, oil, or natural gas consumption. I'm very curious how the trend will look by the end of the year.
sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-03-27 02:23:03 PM  

MrSteve007: farkturf: It's only fair. All those 1 percenters who can afford Teslas and other electric cars don't have to pay gas taxes now. How else would we be able to pay for the highways once electric cars get cheap enough for the rabble to afford?

My all-electric Leaf only costs me $199 a month. How much a month do you spend on gas?


How much of your actual cost is being subsidized by the government and my tax dollars?
 
2013-03-27 02:26:42 PM  

dready zim: OgreMagi: Donnchadha: NutWrench: They aren't "replacing" shiat. This will be a new tax on top of the existing gasoline tax, no matter what they say.

But if that money gets turned around into improving and updating infrastructure (and also providing jobs in the meantime), I'm all for it.

Do you actually believe that is how the money will be spent?

No, but it is how it SHOULD be spent and quite often given a sheen of a lie that it actually is how it is spent by just not telling us what it really is spent on unless pushed. I too would be all for it if that would happen.


Just making sure you aren't delusional.

Add me to the list of people who don't think they'll be replacing the existing tax.  They'll add the new tax and promise the old tax will be phased out.  Except they'll forget to phase it out.
 
2013-03-27 02:28:22 PM  

CujoQuarrel: How much of your actual cost is being subsidized by the government and my tax dollars?


In the 2012 model, $7,500 off the top from the Feds, and on the State level, it was sales tax free (about $3,000). Interestingly, just as incentives are designed to do, prices of electric cars are now rapidly coming down. The price of the 2013 Leaf dropped by about $6,000.

What I find most curious, is where were you "Oh noez, subsidies!" people 10-years ago, when we were giving huge tax ride offs to people buying Hummers.
 
2013-03-27 02:30:24 PM  

Donnchadha: OtherBrotherDarryl: How about a tax based on the number of miles driven but where there are incentives/penalties for driving more/less fuel efficient cars (ie, a gas tax).

I think the issue derives from the fact that nobody wants to raise the gas tax, and this would be a way to do so while letting your congressman argue "I didn't vote for no tax increases!" during his next reelection campaign.


Plus this dicks over the poor disproportionately more than the wealthy, so of course the GOP likes it and will be able to sell it pretty easily to its base.

Not sure how easy a sell this would be to anyone outside of the GOP base.
 
2013-03-27 02:30:38 PM  

pciszek: ferretman: Just don't complain when the cost for items goes up. All additional taxes/costs put onto manufacturers or shippers will be passed onto the consumer.

Currently, those companies are paying for road repairs via the fuel tax.  If this change goes into effect, they will get off scott free, paying by the mile as if their trucks were cars.  Do you think the reduced cost will be pass on to the consumer?


The person I had responded to stated to just charge the truckers instead not cars, hence my response.
 
2013-03-27 02:31:18 PM  

CujoQuarrel: How much of your actual cost is being subsidized by the government and my tax dollars?


Oooh, and I forgot one major point. How much of my tax dollars are being spent to militarily protect oil producing countries  that we wouldn't give a shiat about otherwise?
 
2013-03-27 02:35:24 PM  

ZAZ: Who believes the gas tax would vanish?

In my state the government already knows how many miles you drive. Once a year the inspection station plugs into your computer and gets a data dump. It would be easy to combine the mile tax and municipal property tax into one consolidated registration fee.

Or they could just take 1.5 cents per mile target revenue times typical miles per year and charge $200 per year to register a car.


What's a computer in the car?  Oh you mean that biatch box in modern pussy vehicles.  Yeah about that.  Old vehicles don't have those.

/old school roll
 
2013-03-27 02:35:26 PM  

MrSteve007: farkturf: It's only fair. All those 1 percenters who can afford Teslas and other electric cars don't have to pay gas taxes now. How else would we be able to pay for the highways once electric cars get cheap enough for the rabble to afford?

My all-electric Leaf only costs me $199 a month. How much a month do you spend on gas?


~$50.00/wk and get almost 350-400 miles per tank. Drive an '04 accord.
 
2013-03-27 02:38:09 PM  

MrSteve007: CujoQuarrel: How much of your actual cost is being subsidized by the government and my tax dollars?

Oooh, and I forgot one major point. How much of my tax dollars are being spent to militarily protect oil producing countries  that we wouldn't give a shiat about otherwise?


Do you even no how many products you use contain petroleum? Just about anything plastic, make-up, lubrication products etc.; all use petroleum derivatives.
 
2013-03-27 02:38:10 PM  

MrSteve007: farkturf: It's only fair. All those 1 percenters who can afford Teslas and other electric cars don't have to pay gas taxes now. How else would we be able to pay for the highways once electric cars get cheap enough for the rabble to afford?

My all-electric Leaf only costs me $199 a month. How much a month do you spend on gas?


I only get 21 mpg, I spend about 80 a month on gas.
 
2013-03-27 02:42:46 PM  

ferretman: ~$50.00/wk and get almost 350-400 miles per tank. Drive an '04 accord.


My commute is 60 miles a day (so 300 miles a week) - factor in the occasional summer road trip to Yellowstone and the annualized fuel cost will be fairly similar to what I saw. A 20mpg truck vs. a 26mpg car doesn't gain too much.

However, on a per mile basis, for fuel, electric cars are about 1/8th of the cost.
 
2013-03-27 02:46:53 PM  

stovepipe: MrSteve007: You know what's rad? Not paying any gas tax!

Or for fuel . . .

This
[carreleasedates.com image 620x391]
plus this
[iowaenvironmentalfocus.files.wordpress.com image 850x637]
= never paying for farking gasoline or gas taxes again! I love living that life.

That's a real nice solar setup you got there.  Be a shame if a hail storm came and farked it all up.


Hailstorms don't fark up solar panels.  Recently I threw some of the glass we use in our PV modules on a concrete floor.  It bounced.  That shiat is ridiculously strong.
 
2013-03-27 02:47:36 PM  

Worldwalker: ProfessorOhki: Just weight the mileage tax by the EPA numbers for the car and/or its smog numbers (if applicable), or even vehicle weight. There, 50 miles in a Prius is less than 50 miles in a Suburban, but the guy driving 50 miles in an full EV still pays for infrastructure. It's not like it has to be all one or the other, just make the mileage part cover the wear due to mileage.

But that's not how they've proposed doing it. They want to make 50 miles in a Prius cost exactly as much as 50 miles in a Suburban. They see another way of getting money out of the little guy and benefiting the big guy. Given that our laws are made by millionaires, bought and paid for by billionaires (or billion-dollar corporations) they're not going to something that would hurt themselves.


Yeah, this proposition is probably bad. I was just toying with the general concept of balancing incentivising fuel efficiency without starving the infrastructure. Really, it comes down to what you think the role of taxation is. It's not totally unreasonable to have the position of, "taxes are for wear on tear on roads, mileage only. Low-emissions regulation will be handled through non-tax means," especially if you're opposed to taxes as a social instrument in general (though we crossed that bridge long ago).
 
2013-03-27 02:49:34 PM  

ferretman: Do you even no how many products you use contain petroleum? Just about anything plastic, make-up, lubrication products etc.; all use petroleum derivatives.


And do you know how much petroleum is forever wasted by burning it up in American automobiles vs. actually going to useful products?

And frankly, there's plenty of alternatives: corn-based plastic is fairly common, before we had plastic we had ebonite, and there's plenty of synthetic lubrication products out on the market. I'm not saying we remove all fossil fuel use, but we could easily reduce our needs by 75% by switching to viable alternatives that are already on the market. I have. And the US Navy is rapidly doing it too.

This isn't science fiction any more. The era of cheap fossil fuels is coming to an end - the faster people realize it, the better off our nation will be.
 
2013-03-27 02:50:39 PM  
Look, kids ... however they have to word it, Politicians will find a way to dig deeper into your pocket for their money

It's like being raped cartoon style
 
2013-03-27 02:51:10 PM  

CujoQuarrel: How much of your actual cost is being subsidized by the government and my tax dollars?


How much of the cost of the pollution your car spews out for free is subsidized by my lungs?
 
2013-03-27 02:51:13 PM  

MrSteve007: ferretman: ~$50.00/wk and get almost 350-400 miles per tank. Drive an '04 accord.

My commute is 60 miles a day (so 300 miles a week) - factor in the occasional summer road trip to Yellowstone and the annualized fuel cost will be fairly similar to what I saw. A 20mpg truck vs. a 26mpg car doesn't gain too much.

However, on a per mile basis, for fuel, electric cars are about 1/8th of the cost.


I have all highway driving with zero traffic and I travel with the cruise set at ~70 mph. ~40 miles a day...on long trips I can get over 400 miles to the tank. It's all about smart driving (when you don't live in a traffic hell hole).
 
2013-03-27 02:53:33 PM  

Girion47: MrSteve007: farkturf: It's only fair. All those 1 percenters who can afford Teslas and other electric cars don't have to pay gas taxes now. How else would we be able to pay for the highways once electric cars get cheap enough for the rabble to afford?

My all-electric Leaf only costs me $199 a month. How much a month do you spend on gas?

I only get 21 mpg, I spend about 80 a month on gas.


My rated MPG is 14 combined. I spend maybe $90/mo... where gas is $4+/gal
 
2013-03-27 02:55:18 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Girion47: MrSteve007: farkturf: It's only fair. All those 1 percenters who can afford Teslas and other electric cars don't have to pay gas taxes now. How else would we be able to pay for the highways once electric cars get cheap enough for the rabble to afford?

My all-electric Leaf only costs me $199 a month. How much a month do you spend on gas?

I only get 21 mpg, I spend about 80 a month on gas.

My rated MPG is 14 combined. I spend maybe $90/mo... where gas is $4+/gal


So you drive 10 miles a day.  Buy a goddamn bike.
 
2013-03-27 02:57:55 PM  

Hollie Maea: So you drive 10 miles a day. Buy a goddamn bike.


But he lives in Southern California. He might get a sunburn in the winter!
 
2013-03-27 03:02:23 PM  
God this is one of the stupidest ideas in congressional history - and that takes effort.
Taxing a sale is relatively easy, but creating an entirely new government beauracracy to handle people reporting their mileage? Honestly, there are far more pressing problems the US needs to be dealing with right now - for instance, RUNNING OUT OF MONEY...
 
2013-03-27 03:04:46 PM  

slayer199: I'm rather conflicted on this because I think people that drive more should pay more for the road infrastructure they use.

On the flip side, there was a strong incentive to drive a more fuel-efficient vehicle to offset rising fuel prices.  So the government disincentivizes fuel-efficiency and indirectly promotes telecommuting.

The bottom line is that this won't have the desired effect because people that have long commutes will adapt.


Actually with the current system people who drive more DO pay more for road usage since they have to buy more gasoline thereby paying more taxes for road usage. The gas tax also rewards those who responsibly use more fuel efficient vehicles. If they go with this moronic idea the guy driving the hybrid will pay the same a[mount toward taxes as the neck in the hummer when driving the same number of miles. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want but the whole idea is to be able to track vehicles, not make more tax money.
 
2013-03-27 03:05:46 PM  
The gas tax works quite nicely, thank you very much Congresscritters.

The gas tax also effectively penalizes people who don't know how to drive properly -- the gas-or-brake people who slam on the gas then slam on the brake constantly.  It also encourages people like myself to hack their cars for better efficiency & performance.

Even with a 2nd AC added to my car (it's Florida and I like 45F air blowing from the air vents even if it is 98F outside), I'm getting ~26mpg in normal driving.  Not bad for a 375HP 4.5L V8 9 year old car.   For comparison, my friend with a brand new Lexus RX300h hybrid only gets 21-22mpg.  I thought hybrids were supposed to be fuel efficient.   The hybrid certainly isn't fun to drive by any means.  The engine sounds terrible when you push it.
 
2013-03-27 03:08:27 PM  

Hollie Maea: ProfessorOhki: Girion47: MrSteve007: farkturf: It's only fair. All those 1 percenters who can afford Teslas and other electric cars don't have to pay gas taxes now. How else would we be able to pay for the highways once electric cars get cheap enough for the rabble to afford?

My all-electric Leaf only costs me $199 a month. How much a month do you spend on gas?

I only get 21 mpg, I spend about 80 a month on gas.

My rated MPG is 14 combined. I spend maybe $90/mo... where gas is $4+/gal

So you drive 10 miles a day.  Buy a goddamn bike.


No, that would mean I drove an average of 10 miles a day, assuming that the combined rating applied and that it was accurate. While not the case, the numbers would be the same if I drove 70 mi once a week. Though, I probably did fark up the math somewhere, because 10 mi is way off.
 
2013-03-27 03:10:11 PM  

MrSteve007: Hollie Maea: So you drive 10 miles a day. Buy a goddamn bike.

But he lives in Southern California. He might get a sunburn in the winter!


If I lived in SoCal, I would find a way to never need to get near a road. I've passed through a few times and... nope.
 
2013-03-27 03:13:10 PM  

Girion47: Federal Odometer Laws and Regulations

49 U.S.C. §§ 32701-32711 (Formerly 15 U.S.C. §§ 1981-1991),

49 C.F.R., Sections 580.1-580.6 - Odometer Requirements
Violations -

Resetting or altering odometer with intent to change mileage.Making false odometer disclosure statement.Failure to provide buyer complete odometer disclosure statement.In acquiring vehicle for resale, failure to obtain complete odometer disclosure statement from seller.Conspiring to violate any of the Federal odometer statutes.


mhmm
but this is only a problem if you SELL the vehicle
 
2013-03-27 03:15:07 PM  

Donnchadha: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: You're interpretive brain cells aren't working too well, are they?

Your trolling is bad and you should feel bad.


DEF: Troll: Someone who says something you disagree with. PURPOSE: Much easier than coming up with, you know, a rational counterargument.
 
2013-03-27 03:20:07 PM  

ferretman: Do you even no how many products you use contain petroleum? Just about anything plastic, make-up, lubrication products etc.; all use petroleum derivatives.


But if we weren't burning it as fuel, would we need to import it, or would domestic production be enough?
 
2013-03-27 03:21:53 PM  
My commute is about 70 miles round trip and takes 40 minutes to an hour (traffic sucks).  When the weather is good, I ride my motorcycle.  Otherwise I drive my rather small car.  Public transportation would take over 2 hours EACH WAY even if transfers are perfectly timed (and they never are).

So because I drive fuel efficient vehicles the government has decided I need to be punished?  I have a plan.  It involves tar, feather, rope and a few trees (some assembly required).
 
2013-03-27 03:24:23 PM  

MrSteve007: Oooh, and I forgot one major point. How much of my tax dollars are being spent to militarily protect oil producing countries that we wouldn't give a shiat about otherwise?


So that's basically just Iraq and Saudi, right?

Because NATO treaties cover the UK and Canada, and the Monroe Doctrine covers Venezuela and Mexico.

And we'd probably still be in the Middle East, just because the Suez runs through there.
 
2013-03-27 03:25:50 PM  

Terrydatroll: Actually with the current system people who drive more DO pay more for road usage since they have to buy more gasoline thereby paying more taxes for road usage. The gas tax also rewards those who responsibly use more fuel efficient vehicles. If they go with this moronic idea the guy driving the hybrid will pay the same a[mount toward taxes as the neck in the hummer when driving the same number of miles. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want but the whole idea is to be able to track vehicles, not make more tax money.


THIS!!

1) if revenue is down because more people are driving hybrids, increase the gas tax until you meet revenue goals.
2) if you need more dollars for road and bridge repairs, increase the gas tax until you meet revenue goals.

this is not rocket science. this is designed to screw over hybrid, small car drivers and a savings for everyone else. hell taxing by mileage traveled and tracking via GPS are clearly unconstitutional. They directly and indirectly infringe on your right to travel.


The U.S. Supreme Court also dealt with the right to travel in the case of Saenz v. Roe, 526 U.S. 489 (1999). In that case, Justice John Paul Stevens, writing for the majority, held that the United States Constitution protected three separate aspects of the right to travel among the states: the right to enter one state and leave another, the right to be treated as a welcome visitor rather than a hostile stranger (protected by the "privileges and immunities" clause in Article IV, § 2), and (for those who become permanent residents of a state) the right to be treated equally to native born citizens (this is protected by the 14th Amendment's Citizenship Clause).
 
2013-03-27 03:27:53 PM  

MrSteve007: And do you know how much petroleum is forever wasted by burning it up in American automobiles vs. actually going to useful products?


Our great-grandchildren are going to look back at our world and say "they had all that petroleum and they burned it up?!?!?!"
 
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