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(Bloomberg)   I Can't Drive 55 ..... Miles: Abolishing the U.S. gasoline tax and replacing it with a levy based on miles driven could happen "tomorrow" regardless of hurdles   (bloomberg.com) divider line 372
    More: Interesting, Steve LaTourette, gasoline taxes, Federal Highway Administration, Infrastructure Committee, Highway Trust Fund, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, Republican Main Street Partnership, House Transportation  
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13835 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Mar 2013 at 10:43 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-27 11:08:15 AM

FoxKelfonne: So it's at least an 80% increase. Imagine the outrage if they suggested that you pay 80% more taxes in any other area.


Cuz paying an extra $80 is EXACTLY like having your entire income taxed another 80%.
 
2013-03-27 11:09:00 AM

rkettens: They do that now by buying more gas than you.


Yes and no.  The point I was making is that people that may drive more have likely moved to more fuel-efficient vehicles as there is an incentive to do so...so they may not buy more fuel.

As I said, I'm rather conflicted on this because theoretically, the current system is fair and I really don't like the idea of the government tracking the miles I drive for "taxation" purposes.
 
2013-03-27 11:09:08 AM

jaytkay: Fark It: I live in the Chicago metro. The only decent mass transit options are if you are commuting to the loop. What is this "adding lanes" that you speak of?

PACE buses in the Chicago suburbs provide 2 million rides every weekday.

Maybe you chose to live somewhere without options, or riding the bus is beneath you, but millions of people use public transit outside the city center.


I've looked into PACE.  It's not feasible for where I work, live, and go to school.

But thanks for making assumptions about people who are stuck in their cars, it's not smug or sanctimonious in the least.
 
2013-03-27 11:09:52 AM
What could possibly go wrong?
 
2013-03-27 11:10:28 AM
Oh, OK, it "could" happen, according to some daydreaming Republican.

Fark this noise. It's perfectly legit that the gas tax punishes people who drive gas guzzlers and rewards those who drive fuel efficient vehicles. If too many people buy fuel efficient vehicles to properly fund infrastructure, then recalibrate the level of the tax across the board. But those who damage the environment and drive up fuel costs for everyone else should have to pay extra to do so.
 
2013-03-27 11:10:35 AM

fireclown: Doesn't the gas tax already tax you per mile driven?  And at the same time that it encourages efficient vehicles?  If there is a shortfall, the rate can be increased.  I don't like the idea of a GPS dealiewhatsit logging all my travels to the feds.


Pretty much this.  You know the government will find a way to exploit that GPS data if available.
 
2013-03-27 11:10:47 AM
The real question is why are gas prices continuing to go up when the U.S. oil production is continuing to rise and we are set to become completely self sufficient in oil production in a few years.
 
2013-03-27 11:12:52 AM

The_Original_Roxtar: lets see... I drive ~22000 miles per year.
at $0.015/mile, that's $330 under the new tax

under the old version, those miles are split around 19000 miles at 22 mpg and 3000 miles at 60mpg. 864 gallons + 50 gallons = 914 gallons. at $0.184/gallon, that's $168.18 under the old tax

you're punishing truckers more than anything else. increased shipping costs means everything is going to cost more, people will spend less, and the economy starts sucking even more. Looks like you didn't think your cunning plan all the way through.


increase the usage of trains, helps our infrastructure overall.

win!
 
2013-03-27 11:13:57 AM

styckx: The real question is why are gas prices continuing to go up when the U.S. oil production is continuing to rise and we are set to become completely self sufficient in oil production in a few years.


Here's how it works according to the oil companies: oil production or supply goes down, gas price goes up because of supply and demand.  Oil production or supply goes up or stays the same, gas prices stays the same or go up because profits, er cuz um uh no seriously we've got a good reason hang on a second...
 
2013-03-27 11:14:35 AM

Fark It: jaytkay: Fark It: I live in the Chicago metro. The only decent mass transit options are if you are commuting to the loop. What is this "adding lanes" that you speak of?

PACE buses in the Chicago suburbs provide 2 million rides every weekday.

Maybe you chose to live somewhere without options, or riding the bus is beneath you, but millions of people use public transit outside the city center.

I've looked into PACE.  It's not feasible for where I work, live, and go to school.

But thanks for making assumptions about people who are stuck in their cars, it's not smug or sanctimonious in the least.


You wrongly claimed there is no mass transit outside the Loop. You chose to live and work where there is no mass transit. Statements of fact.

No need to feel guilty and defensive about it.
 
2013-03-27 11:16:29 AM
I'm just so very thankful that there is no corruption is the highway building/maintenance industry that makes cost substantially higher than they should be requiring more tax dollars.
 
2013-03-27 11:17:02 AM
Instead of increasing efficiency and utility of revenue already collected, let's just collect more.

The mantra of government.
 
2013-03-27 11:18:36 AM
Instead of driving 180 miles/week to and from work, I'll drive 20/week and take the train. It will cost me about 4 hours of time, but enjoy that tax money. Just like how your cigarette tax increase got me to quit.
 
2013-03-27 11:18:48 AM
You guys are missing the point..

The Government will then need GPS registration on your vehicles to monitor this, especially if you claim to drive off-road or out of the country.


Move along, Citizen....and pay your taxes as you do.
 
2013-03-27 11:20:41 AM

OtherBrotherDarryl: How about a tax based on the number of miles driven but where there are incentives/penalties for driving more/less fuel efficient cars (ie, a gas tax).


My gas-tax-free electric car is using public resources that I don't contribute to paying for with a gas tax.  As this trend continues, roads will be completely tax free (or paid for by people who still use gas with hyper-inflated taxes applied to them since they can't/won't buy a new gas-free vehicle).
 
2013-03-27 11:21:51 AM
Not only do I have to pay tax on my fuel, but to register my vehicle. I have to pay for the infrastructure in way of tax dollars and now I have to pay taxes to drive.

WTF is this shiat.
 
2013-03-27 11:22:29 AM

grinding_journalist: Instead of increasing efficiency and utility of revenue already collected, let's just collect more.

The mantra of government.


Too bad the money already collected won't pay off the already collected debt.  The manta of creditors.
 
2013-03-27 11:22:52 AM
Because I have a moderately efficient vehicle, this would over double my taxes.
 
2013-03-27 11:23:35 AM

markie_farkie: How about a tax on all the assholes who drive in the left lane TEN MILES UNDER the limit, and refuse to yield to faster traffic..

And by 'tax', I mean 'drone strike'.


I will gladly pay more taxes for this to be implemented.
 
2013-03-27 11:24:07 AM

slayer199: Pretty much this. You know the government will find a way to exploit that GPS data if available.


It was the reason for my breakup with Progressive Flo.
www.curtisinsuranceagency.net

Ya broke my heart, Flo.
 
2013-03-27 11:25:36 AM

bdub77: Hurdles being like huge retail companies like Walmart with fleets of trucks on the road constantly and lots and lots of cash to pay for this bill to die quickly and quietly. Right?


They'll get an exception.

//Or ship more via rail.
 
2013-03-27 11:25:42 AM

jaytkay: You wrongly claimed there is no mass transit outside the Loop.


I said there are no decent mass transit options outside of the city.  I don't have the luxury of a set schedule that I can plan a bus route around, nor do I have the luxury of being able to live wherever I want.  I don't have the privilege of being able to take into account mass transit when it comes to my employment.  For me, and millions of other people, mass transit is not a feasible, reliable option.  It has nothing to do with bus riders being beneath anyone, and I certainly don't "choose" not to use mass transit.  I would gladly take mass transit if I could, but this smug notion that people who don't use mass transit are a bunch of snobs who think they're above common folk or are somehow too good for public transit is horseshiat.
 
2013-03-27 11:25:55 AM
My uncle has a country place that no one knows about. He says it used to be a farm, before the Motor Law.
 
2013-03-27 11:26:14 AM

jaytkay: FoxKelfonne: So it's at least an 80% increase. Imagine the outrage if they suggested that you pay 80% more taxes in any other area.

Cuz paying an extra $80 is EXACTLY like having your entire income taxed another 80%.


So you think high-percentage tax increases don't matter as long as it's not a big percentage of your total income?  You'd be fine with a gas tax increase of 400-500-600 percent as long as your overall income tax was not increased by 600%?
 
2013-03-27 11:27:10 AM

vernonFL: Donnchadha: /31 states do have emissions testing, but generally only in major metropolitan areas for pollution concerns -- most are not implemented statewide.

My state (Maryland) has emission testing statewide every 2 years, and yes on newer models they just plug into the computer under the dash. On older cars they put a sensor in the tailpipe to actually test the exhaust.


Not us out in Western Maryland.
 
2013-03-27 11:27:37 AM

Fark It: jaytkay: You wrongly claimed there is no mass transit outside the Loop.

I said there are no decent mass transit options outside of the city.  I don't have the luxury of a set schedule that I can plan a bus route around, nor do I have the luxury of being able to live wherever I want.  I don't have the privilege of being able to take into account mass transit when it comes to my employment.  For me, and millions of other people, mass transit is not a feasible, reliable option.  It has nothing to do with bus riders being beneath anyone, and I certainly don't "choose" not to use mass transit.  I would gladly take mass transit if I could, but this smug notion that people who don't use mass transit are a bunch of snobs who think they're above common folk or are somehow too good for public transit is horseshiat.


Right, we get it. You're above riding the bus. That's what homeless people do. And there's no way you could bike either, because "stuff".
 
2013-03-27 11:29:36 AM

Broktun: Not us out in Western Maryland.


How far west are you?  I just had them read the output from the data port on my effing Prius a few weeks ago?

/Hagerstown
 
2013-03-27 11:29:50 AM

jaytkay: FoxKelfonne: So it's at least an 80% increase. Imagine the outrage if they suggested that you pay 80% more taxes in any other area.

Cuz paying an extra $80 is EXACTLY like having your entire income taxed another 80%.


I never suggested it was, but it's still an 80% tax increase, and it's pretty ridiculous. To use another "small tax" example. Current sales tax in Niagara County, NY is 8.75%. If both the state and county sales taxes increased by the same amount to result in an overall 80% increase in sales tax, you'd end up with a 15.75% sales tax rate.
You can say that it's not a big deal, that you're now paying $1.16 for something that used to cost you $1.09, and that you're crying over pennies, but it adds up when you think of all the other taxes you already have to pay, and people even biatched when the sales tax went up from 8.5 to 8.75.
 
2013-03-27 11:30:49 AM
I don't  think it's enough to just pay by the mile. Let's keep the tax on gasoline, tax by the mile, and add tolls to all major highways.
But exclude all road related taxes for people over 65.
/ why yes, I am over 65.
 
2013-03-27 11:30:52 AM

MyKingdomForYourHorse: OtherBrotherDarryl: How about a tax based on the number of miles driven but where there are incentives/penalties for driving more/less fuel efficient cars (ie, a gas tax).

How about we just cut the bullshiat stop it with these itemized taxes and just use a single income based progressive tax and set the amount at what we farking need to run and pay for shiat.

Sounds crazy I know


mostly because the gov't can't help but spend more money year after year and that number you payed last year will be smaller than the number you pay this year and you will notice just how badly the gov't mismanages your money ALL OF THE TIME.
 
2013-03-27 11:30:53 AM

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Not only do I have to pay tax on my fuel, but to register my vehicle. I have to pay for the infrastructure in way of tax dollars and now I have to pay taxes to drive.

WTF is this shiat.


They call it taxation, that's what it is.
 
2013-03-27 11:33:28 AM
Will it eventually happen? Probably. But there are still technological issues to overcome first. I think you'll find a sizable amount of people will be against this for the logistics issues. One, I'm not crazy about any system where I'd be taxed once a year on all my mileage. A 1.5 cents/mile tax would cost me $225 year considering I do about 15000 miles/year. A more frequent check would work better for me and a lot of others so the tax is spread out through the year. Then you have people who live near state lines. Say I live in North Georgia. The nearest major city to me is Chattanooga, TN, so I work and do a lot of my personal errands there. Should I be giving Georgia all the tax on mileage even though most of my miles are in Tennessee? The best way to do this would be to utilize a GPS-based system or something like electronic toll systems. Even if the federal government got the ball rolling on this (and this would have to be a nationwide initiative, state-to-state systems just won't work in this instance), it would likely be 10 to 20+ years before such a system could actually be turned on and utilized across the country.
 
2013-03-27 11:34:42 AM

farker99: Taxing a very light Smart for 2 the same as a Subdivision (Suburban) makes no sense, one really hurts the road, the other doesn't.


Guess which type of vehicle the people proposing this tax drive?
 
2013-03-27 11:34:47 AM
I wonder if you could avoid this tax by leasing a new car every year.
 
2013-03-27 11:35:29 AM
Infrastructure should be funded with a miles driven tax that is scaled by vehicle weight.  The current gasoline tax should be abolished and replaced by a pollution tax that is at least as big as the current gas tax, and which is used to fund alternative transportation initiatives and/or give incentives to people with very efficient vehicles and electric vehicles.
 
2013-03-27 11:35:30 AM

squegeebooo: Fark It: jaytkay: You wrongly claimed there is no mass transit outside the Loop.

I said there are no decent mass transit options outside of the city.  I don't have the luxury of a set schedule that I can plan a bus route around, nor do I have the luxury of being able to live wherever I want.  I don't have the privilege of being able to take into account mass transit when it comes to my employment.  For me, and millions of other people, mass transit is not a feasible, reliable option.  It has nothing to do with bus riders being beneath anyone, and I certainly don't "choose" not to use mass transit.  I would gladly take mass transit if I could, but this smug notion that people who don't use mass transit are a bunch of snobs who think they're above common folk or are somehow too good for public transit is horseshiat.

Right, we get it. You're above riding the bus. That's what homeless people do. And there's no way you could bike either, because "stuff".


I could bike, but in ideal weather it would probably be a four-hour commute each way on days that I have school and work.  Forget if there's snow.

Also:

www.soul-amen.com
 
2013-03-27 11:35:31 AM

jkl65s4: The best way to do this would be to utilize a GPS-based system or something like electronic toll systems.



Yes because that is not going to freak people out in an environment where they are already stocking up their bunkers.
 
2013-03-27 11:36:20 AM
And those of us who itemize our taxes will probably be able to write a portion of this off, while all the poor people will get screwed yet again.

Unless owning a car means that you're automatically not poor. I keep forgetting the republican score card on what it takes to be poor in America.
 
2013-03-27 11:36:41 AM

crab66: jkl65s4: The best way to do this would be to utilize a GPS-based system or something like electronic toll systems.


Yes because that is not going to freak people out in an environment where they are already stocking up their bunkers.


People who think that the government gives a shiat about where they drive are welcome to pay a yearly flat fee.  And no, it won't be cheaper.
 
2013-03-27 11:36:42 AM
I don't believe for a second that any piece of shiat politician of any stripe would actually REMOVE the gas tax and add the usage tax.  They will add the "miles driven" tax on top of the gas tax.

Mark my words.

Because they are all pieces of shiat.
 
2013-03-27 11:37:27 AM

farker99: Tax based on (miles driven * weight of the car) / <some magical factor>

The weight of the car does more damage to the road than anything else. Taxing a very light Smart for 2 the same as a Subdivision (Suburban) makes no sense, one really hurts the road, the other doesn't.

/Yes, I do drive small, light cars, why do you ask
//I'm OK with a miles driven tax if implemented as I suggest, otherwise not in my lifetime.




Roads are designed to carry 80,000 pound trucks; a Suburban doesn't do any more damage to a road than your small light car does. It does take up more space on the road though.
 
2013-03-27 11:37:37 AM

GORDON: I don't believe for a second that any piece of shiat politician of any stripe would actually REMOVE the gas tax and add the usage tax.  They will add the "miles driven" tax on top of the gas tax.

Mark my words.

Because they are all pieces of shiat.


Totally agree with you!
 
2013-03-27 11:37:44 AM

ZAZ: Who believes the gas tax would vanish?

In my state the government already knows how many miles you drive. Once a year the inspection station plugs into your computer and gets a data dump. It would be easy to combine the mile tax and municipal property tax into one consolidated registration fee.


Yep, how hard would it be to require an odometer reading each year you renew your tags?
 
2013-03-27 11:37:51 AM

GORDON: I don't believe for a second that any piece of shiat politician of any stripe would actually REMOVE the gas tax and add the usage tax.  They will add the "miles driven" tax on top of the gas tax.

Mark my words.

Because they are all pieces of shiat.


One can hope.  There should be a usage tax to pay for the roads you drive on.  There should be a gas tax to pay for the shiat you are blasting into the atmosphere.
 
2013-03-27 11:38:14 AM
Yes, let's do this. There are so many ways to cheat on this tax, many people will never pay any tax at all.
 
2013-03-27 11:38:41 AM
Hey remember when Democrats were going to use the gas tax money to fix the roads?  Haha, Democrats are liars.
 
2013-03-27 11:38:49 AM

Fark It: bdub77: Hurdles being like huge retail companies like Walmart with fleets of trucks on the road constantly and lots and lots of cash to pay for this bill to die quickly and quietly. Right?

Walmart (and FedEx and UPS etc) would love for individual motorists to foot the bill for our infrastructure, or to pay the same amount for their massive fleets of huge trucks that individual motorists do with their cars.


Truckers already pay for milage with their IFTA reports.
 
2013-03-27 11:39:24 AM

Tom_Slick: vernonFL: I do know there are exemptions for diesel (shouldn't they be tested MORE?)

The problem with diesels is up until recently with DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) there was no way to "clean" diesel exhaust, so what ever comes out of the engine is what comes out of the exhaust pipe.  Emissions testing just tests all the equipment that cleans the exhaust.


Only half true.  DIesel emissions systems have only appeared recently... but the amount of soot and other nano-particle filth belched by diesel engines is directly related to their state of tune and the health of their fuel injectors.   You don't need fancy emissions hardware to significantly improve the exhaust from most of the diesels on the road, you just need conscientious maintenance.

A smog-control program aimed at enforcing decent maintenance on diesel engines could do a lot to clean up the air, but... would face a lot of opposition from a politically well-connected industry, not to mention a politically easy-to-inflame population segment.

Diesel emissions limits ARE arriving, in baby steps... but there's a reason that cars have been clean for thirty-plus years while trucks are just now starting to feel the heat.
 
2013-03-27 11:39:43 AM

wambu: Yes, let's do this. There are so many ways to cheat on this tax, many people will never pay any tax at all.


We don't abolish income tax just because people cheat on it.  Tax fraud isn't going anywhere, but severe penalties scare most people away from it.
 
2013-03-27 11:41:16 AM

grinding_journalist: Instead of increasing efficiency and utility of revenue already collected, let's just collect more.

The mantra of government.


Racist.
 
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