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(Bloomberg)   I Can't Drive 55 ..... Miles: Abolishing the U.S. gasoline tax and replacing it with a levy based on miles driven could happen "tomorrow" regardless of hurdles   (bloomberg.com) divider line 372
    More: Interesting, Steve LaTourette, gasoline taxes, Federal Highway Administration, Infrastructure Committee, Highway Trust Fund, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, Republican Main Street Partnership, House Transportation  
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13823 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Mar 2013 at 10:43 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-27 08:54:05 AM
How about a tax based on the number of miles driven but where there are incentives/penalties for driving more/less fuel efficient cars (ie, a gas tax).
 
2013-03-27 09:19:05 AM

OtherBrotherDarryl: How about a tax based on the number of miles driven but where there are incentives/penalties for driving more/less fuel efficient cars (ie, a gas tax).


I think the issue derives from the fact that nobody wants to raise the gas tax, and this would be a way to do so while letting your congressman argue "I didn't vote for no tax increases!" during his next reelection campaign.
 
2013-03-27 09:31:44 AM
Miles driven could replace gas tax, FARK COCK SHIATE BALLS, LaTourette says.
 
2013-03-27 09:34:15 AM
Hurdles being like huge retail companies like Walmart with fleets of trucks on the road constantly and lots and lots of cash to pay for this bill to die quickly and quietly. Right?
 
2013-03-27 09:34:15 AM
How about a tax on all the assholes who drive in the left lane TEN MILES UNDER the limit, and refuse to yield to faster traffic..

And by 'tax', I mean 'drone strike'.
 
2013-03-27 09:53:21 AM
I'm rather conflicted on this because I think people that drive more should pay more for the road infrastructure they use.

On the flip side, there was a strong incentive to drive a more fuel-efficient vehicle to offset rising fuel prices.  So the government disincentivizes fuel-efficiency and indirectly promotes telecommuting.

The bottom line is that this won't have the desired effect because people that have long commutes will adapt.
 
2013-03-27 09:55:00 AM

vernonFL: Miles driven could replace gas tax, FARK COCK SHIATE BALLS, LaTourette says.


I'm glad someone said it.

*repetitive twitching motion*
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-03-27 09:58:07 AM
Who believes the gas tax would vanish?

In my state the government already knows how many miles you drive. Once a year the inspection station plugs into your computer and gets a data dump. It would be easy to combine the mile tax and municipal property tax into one consolidated registration fee.

Or they could just take 1.5 cents per mile target revenue times typical miles per year and charge $200 per year to register a car.
 
2013-03-27 10:14:36 AM

ZAZ: Who believes the gas tax would vanish?

In my state the government already knows how many miles you drive. Once a year the inspection station plugs into your computer and gets a data dump. It would be easy to combine the mile tax and municipal property tax into one consolidated registration fee.

Or they could just take 1.5 cents per mile target revenue times typical miles per year and charge $200 per year to register a car.


Only 19 states (18 + DC) require yearly safety inspections, so it would be easy to combine this in those states, but the other 32 states would have to implement some sort of inspection program - met with backlash of "Why do I have to bring my car in to let some government agent plug a computer in and see where I've been driving?"

/31 states do have emissions testing, but generally only in major metropolitan areas for pollution concerns -- most are not implemented statewide.
 
2013-03-27 10:15:30 AM
Steve LaTourette, former Republican representative of Ohio, says government boogeymen could track your car and tax you.
 
2013-03-27 10:23:28 AM
I think this is bullshiat.  The healthcare program I'm applying for only has a handful of clinical sites that are in the county, some are 90 minutes each way.  Mass transit isn't an option for most people.  Why go after motorists when you could go after the trucking and freight industries?  An empty truck with trailer is at least 30,000 lbs, and they can weigh up to 80,000 lbs when they're loaded up with cargo.  That wears down infrastructure a lot more than my car....

bdub77: Hurdles being like huge retail companies like Walmart with fleets of trucks on the road constantly and lots and lots of cash to pay for this bill to die quickly and quietly. Right?


Walmart (and FedEx and UPS etc) would love for individual motorists to foot the bill for our infrastructure, or to pay the same amount for their massive fleets of huge trucks that individual motorists do with their cars.
 
2013-03-27 10:24:48 AM

Donnchadha: /31 states do have emissions testing, but generally only in major metropolitan areas for pollution concerns -- most are not implemented statewide.


My state (Maryland) has emission testing statewide every 2 years, and yes on newer models they just plug into the computer under the dash. On older cars they put a sensor in the tailpipe to actually test the exhaust.
 
2013-03-27 10:30:56 AM

vernonFL: Donnchadha: /31 states do have emissions testing, but generally only in major metropolitan areas for pollution concerns -- most are not implemented statewide.

My state (Maryland) has emission testing statewide every 2 years, and yes on newer models they just plug into the computer under the dash. On older cars they put a sensor in the tailpipe to actually test the exhaust.


Wikipedia and Maryland's MVA website agree -- only 13 counties (out of 23) plus Baltimore City require testing, and within that there's a fair number of exemptions
 
2013-03-27 10:34:40 AM
My family is down to one fuel-efficient vehicle and I run commute. Go pay for your own highways gassholes...
 
2013-03-27 10:36:10 AM

Donnchadha: Wikipedia and Maryland's MVA website agree -- only 13 counties (out of 23) plus Baltimore City require testing, and within that there's a fair number of exemptions


Thanks, I didn't know that. I do know there are exemptions for diesel (shouldn't they be tested MORE?) and older classic cars.
 
2013-03-27 10:41:22 AM
Oh, also, Maryland is about to raise our state gasoline tax to pay for roads and bridges etc. The money is supposed to be earmarked special and goes into something called the "Transportation fund"

We've always had a "transportation fund", but over the last 3 years the state has raided that fund to pay for other things.

So to say that the money will go to infrastructure improvements may or may not be true, its possible that they will just take that money and use it for something else.
 
2013-03-27 10:45:47 AM

vernonFL: I do know there are exemptions for diesel (shouldn't they be tested MORE?)


The problem with diesels is up until recently with DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) there was no way to "clean" diesel exhaust, so what ever comes out of the engine is what comes out of the exhaust pipe.  Emissions testing just tests all the equipment that cleans the exhaust.
 
2013-03-27 10:46:47 AM

slayer199: I'm rather conflicted on this because I think people that drive more should pay more for the road infrastructure they use.

On the flip side, there was a strong incentive to drive a more fuel-efficient vehicle to offset rising fuel prices.  So the government disincentivizes fuel-efficiency and indirectly promotes telecommuting.

The bottom line is that this won't have the desired effect because people that have long commutes will adapt.


No reason they can't raise taxes on both. Since when does that stop them?

Bonus? Hurts more rural people, helps more urban. Democrats tend to cluster more in urban environments.
 
2013-03-27 10:47:02 AM
If only we could tax something that cars use to power themselves.
 
m00
2013-03-27 10:47:03 AM
This would benefit people with cars who have bad gas mileage.
 
2013-03-27 10:47:18 AM
Looks like my 8 mpg gas-hog wasn't such a bad investment after all.
 
2013-03-27 10:47:27 AM

Elzar: My family is down to one fuel-efficient vehicle and I run commute. Go pay for your own highways gassholes...


GOOD FOR YEW

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-27 10:48:20 AM

slayer199: I'm rather conflicted on this because I think people that drive more should pay more for the road infrastructure they use.

They do that now by buying more gas than you.

 
2013-03-27 10:48:32 AM

markie_farkie: How about a tax on all the assholes who drive in the left lane TEN MILES UNDER the limit, and refuse to yield to faster traffic..

And by 'tax', I mean 'drone strike'.


There simply are not enough drones....yet.
 
2013-03-27 10:48:34 AM

OtherBrotherDarryl: How about a tax based on the number of miles driven but where there are incentives/penalties for driving more/less fuel efficient cars (ie, a gas tax).


How about we just cut the bullshiat stop it with these itemized taxes and just use a single income based progressive tax and set the amount at what we farking need to run and pay for shiat.

Sounds crazy I know
 
2013-03-27 10:48:36 AM

slayer199: On the flip side, there was a strong incentive to drive a more fuel-efficient vehicle to offset rising fuel prices.


There already is an incentive -- you use less fuel, and therefore pay less money to drive your car.
 
2013-03-27 10:48:39 AM

OtherBrotherDarryl: How about a tax based on the number of miles driven but where there are incentives/penalties for driving more/less fuel efficient cars (ie, a gas tax).


I was just thinking that. If we had a mileage tax, I'd pay the same in my 4x4 as the guy in the Prius who drives the same distance. With the gas tax, I buy more gas and pay more taxes for the same miles driven. The mileage tax would be far less painful for me than the Prius driver.
 
2013-03-27 10:49:59 AM

Fark It: I think this is bullshiat.  The healthcare program I'm applying for only has a handful of clinical sites that are in the county, some are 90 minutes each way.  Mass transit isn't an option for most people.  Why go after motorists when you could go after the trucking and freight industries?  An empty truck with trailer is at least 30,000 lbs, and they can weigh up to 80,000 lbs when they're loaded up with cargo.  That wears down infrastructure a lot more than my car


That is true, except the # of passenger cars far, far outnumbers the # of trucks on the road, and those cars fill up all the lanes and constantly need new ones added. There's more to what the gas tax pays for than worn out pavement and bridges; it also pays for the new lanes too.
 
2013-03-27 10:50:09 AM
That's alright. The US Senate is passing a bill allowing the States to tax us for online purchases. Oh, and CISPA is back.
 
2013-03-27 10:51:02 AM
So, what happens when I drive across the border to Canada?  Who gets those miles?
 
2013-03-27 10:51:12 AM
They aren't "replacing" shiat. This will be a new tax on top of the existing gasoline tax, no matter what they say.
 
2013-03-27 10:52:25 AM
Problem with the mileage tax is it looks back in time and someone can accumulate a hefty bill they can't afford.

Gas tax is like Withholding Tax.   Government gets their money upfront.   You can't get a refund of your fuel tax either.
 
2013-03-27 10:52:45 AM
Just do what other countries do, tax based on engine displacement.
 
2013-03-27 10:53:14 AM

NutWrench: They aren't "replacing" shiat. This will be a new tax on top of the existing gasoline tax, no matter what they say.


But if that money gets turned around into improving and updating infrastructure (and also providing jobs in the meantime), I'm all for it.
 
2013-03-27 10:53:22 AM

Bendal: Fark It: I think this is bullshiat.  The healthcare program I'm applying for only has a handful of clinical sites that are in the county, some are 90 minutes each way.  Mass transit isn't an option for most people.  Why go after motorists when you could go after the trucking and freight industries?  An empty truck with trailer is at least 30,000 lbs, and they can weigh up to 80,000 lbs when they're loaded up with cargo.  That wears down infrastructure a lot more than my car

That is true, except the # of passenger cars far, far outnumbers the # of trucks on the road, and those cars fill up all the lanes and constantly need new ones added. There's more to what the gas tax pays for than worn out pavement and bridges; it also pays for the new lanes too.


I live in the Chicago metro.  The only decent mass transit options are if you are commuting to the loop.  What is this "adding lanes" that you speak of?
 
2013-03-27 10:53:23 AM
So If I disconnect my spedometer/odometer, I can avoid the tax?
 
2013-03-27 10:53:50 AM
As electric and hybrid cars steadily take over, the revenues generated by gas taxes will decline. So we have to start thinking about alternatives. I don't think taxing the number of miles driven is the best answer. It may be better for the federal government to levy a transportation payroll tax and use the money to improve public transportation. They could apportion some of the revenue to the states so that state gas taxes could also be eliminated. But they'd have to earmark the funds for infrastructure and public transportation use, lest the states divert the funds to other uses. A payroll tax would take the sting out for citizens, since a smaller sum would be paid each pay period instead of in a lump sum. It would also allow for those who do not drive automobiles to share in the nation's transportation system rather than just pay a train or bus fare that doesn't come near meeting maintenance and development costs.
 
2013-03-27 10:55:11 AM

Elzar: My family is down to one fuel-efficient vehicle and I run commute. Go pay for your own highways gassholes...


The only point you are missing is that you already pay for the highways don't kid yourself. They are simply taking you for more.
 
2013-03-27 10:57:00 AM
Sounds like another way to raise taxes on the middle class/poor and cut taxes for the rich. Sounds fantastic.

Let's just go for a fair tax policy next so we can really tell these poverty stricken assholes to get a better job and carry their own weight.
 
2013-03-27 10:57:54 AM
Total Farkers who are on here more than others should pay more than $5 a month?
 
2013-03-27 10:58:29 AM

kaduh: Total Farkers who are on here more than others should pay more than $5 a month?


Says the freeloader....
 
2013-03-27 11:01:48 AM
Tax based on (miles driven * weight of the car) / <some magical factor>

The weight of the car does more damage to the road than anything else. Taxing a very light Smart for 2 the same as a Subdivision (Suburban) makes no sense, one really hurts the road, the other doesn't.

/Yes, I do drive small, light cars, why do you ask
//I'm OK with a miles driven tax if implemented as I suggest, otherwise not in my lifetime.
 
2013-03-27 11:03:05 AM

cgraves67: OtherBrotherDarryl: How about a tax based on the number of miles driven but where there are incentives/penalties for driving more/less fuel efficient cars (ie, a gas tax).

I was just thinking that. If we had a mileage tax, I'd pay the same in my 4x4 as the guy in the Prius who drives the same distance. With the gas tax, I buy more gas and pay more taxes for the same miles driven. The mileage tax would be far less painful for me than the Prius driver.


I think that is the point. They are losing gas tax money from the people with the fuel efficient cars that they pushed. Now they want that money that they are losing.
 
2013-03-27 11:03:38 AM
Just doing the math quickly, this would nearly double the amount of federal tax I pay. Judging on 10 gallons a week average, comes out to about $95 / year in gas tax (Federal. I haven't included NYS gas tax, because even if they eliminate the fed gas tax, you'll never get NYS to give up on collecting a tax) I can safely round this up to $100, because I occasionally take trips where I drive and fill up the tank more often.

I also drive roughly 12,000 miles / year, which with the suggested tax of $0.015 / mile, would end up charging me $180 / year in taxes. So it's at least an 80% increase. Imagine the outrage if they suggested that you pay 80% more taxes in any other area.

If they start charging for distance driven, are they also going to eliminate toll roads on interstates? Because when I take those long roadtrips, I often take roads like the I-90 or the PA Turnpike which charge me for the privilege, which I assumed was supposed to go for maintenance on those roads. (Considering tolls are often higher for larger vehicles like trucks and based on how far you drive along the interstates)
 
2013-03-27 11:05:10 AM

MyKingdomForYourHorse: OtherBrotherDarryl: How about a tax based on the number of miles driven but where there are incentives/penalties for driving more/less fuel efficient cars (ie, a gas tax).

How about we just cut the bullshiat stop it with these itemized taxes and just use a single income based progressive tax and set the amount at what we farking need to run and pay for shiat.

Sounds crazy I know


Hell, I'd be satisfied that if a specific tax is levied to pay for "X" (in this instance infrastructure), all the revenue generated is actually spent on "X".
 
2013-03-27 11:05:19 AM
Prove I wasn't driving outside the country.
 
2013-03-27 11:05:32 AM
Doesn't the gas tax already tax you per mile driven?  And at the same time that it encourages efficient vehicles?  If there is a shortfall, the rate can be increased.  I don't like the idea of a GPS dealiewhatsit logging all my travels to the feds.
 
2013-03-27 11:06:03 AM
Major reason, at least in Florida, that diesel is more expensive than regular gas, is that the tax more.
 
2013-03-27 11:06:37 AM

Fark It: I live in the Chicago metro. The only decent mass transit options are if you are commuting to the loop. What is this "adding lanes" that you speak of?


PACE buses in the Chicago suburbs provide 2 million rides every weekday.

Maybe you chose to live somewhere without options, or riding the bus is beneath you, but millions of people use public transit outside the city center.
 
2013-03-27 11:07:05 AM
lets see... I drive ~22000 miles per year.
at $0.015/mile, that's $330 under the new tax

under the old version, those miles are split around 19000 miles at 22 mpg and 3000 miles at 60mpg. 864 gallons + 50 gallons = 914 gallons. at $0.184/gallon, that's $168.18 under the old tax

you're punishing truckers more than anything else. increased shipping costs means everything is going to cost more, people will spend less, and the economy starts sucking even more. Looks like you didn't think your cunning plan all the way through.
 
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