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(ESPN FC)   USA defeats Mexico 0-0   (espnfc.com) divider line 311
    More: Cool, Klinsmann, USA, corner kicks, Tri, Mexico, World Cup qualifying, centre back, penalty kicks  
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10975 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Mar 2013 at 10:18 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-27 12:37:30 AM  
img.thesun.co.uk
 
2013-03-27 12:53:14 AM  
¡olé!
 
2013-03-27 08:28:43 AM  
I was impressed.
 
2013-03-27 08:37:37 AM  

SilentStrider: I was impressed.


I was impressed by Chicharito missing 2-3 shots he usually makes.  And by the US actually getting calls in Azteca.  It was a weird night.  A good point, but lots of stuff went our way that usually doesn't.
 
2013-03-27 10:21:45 AM  
Forward holds it...HOLDS IT....HOLDS IT!!!!
 
2013-03-27 10:22:26 AM  
So is the laser pointer thing just an Azteca thing that they do to the Americans? Is it done to all visitors? Do other stadia across the world have this issue?
 
2013-03-27 10:23:46 AM  
Tttttttttttttttttttttttttttiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeee!
 
2013-03-27 10:24:08 AM  
A defensive performance for the ages.  Well done, Besler and Gonzalez.
 
2013-03-27 10:24:57 AM  
Actually, the Bears won.
 
2013-03-27 10:26:49 AM  
We'll never be a real soccer team until we're no longer pleased by these sorts of games.

Wow, we were lucky that the Mexicans didn't pot 2, 3 easy goals, and we never had the ball for more than 5 seconds at a time.  USA USA!
 
2013-03-27 10:28:55 AM  
Hey, thanks for the auto-play crapmitter.
 
2013-03-27 10:28:58 AM  

kidgenius: So is the laser pointer thing just an Azteca thing that they do to the Americans? Is it done to all visitors? Do other stadia across the world have this issue?


Quienes mas macho. It takes real cojones to put someone's eyes out from the nosebleed section. At least this time they didn't throw bottles of shiat and urine at US players.
 
2013-03-27 10:31:57 AM  
Didn't watch the game but if ESPN's highlights are to be believed we had one half-assed play where we might have theoretically had a semi-legit, if the stars had aligned and the wind was blowing just right possible shot attempt... other than that we were lucky it wasnt 3-nil.
 
2013-03-27 10:33:26 AM  

MugzyBrown: We'll never be a real soccer team until we're no longer pleased by these sorts of games.

Wow, we were lucky that the Mexicans didn't pot 2, 3 easy goals, and we never had the ball for more than 5 seconds at a time.  USA USA!


In their defense, it's hard to have the ball for 5 seconds when the other team is faking an injury, the whistle blows, and 4 or 5 guys surround the ref for 2 minutes.
 
2013-03-27 10:34:08 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: MugzyBrown: We'll never be a real soccer team until we're no longer pleased by these sorts of games.

Wow, we were lucky that the Mexicans didn't pot 2, 3 easy goals, and we never had the ball for more than 5 seconds at a time.  USA USA!

In their defense, it's hard to have the ball for 5 seconds when the other team is faking an injury, the whistle blows, and 4 or 5 guys surround the ref for 2 minutes.


Wait. That was an NBA game I was watching?
 
2013-03-27 10:34:41 AM  

MugzyBrown: We'll never be a real soccer team until we're no longer pleased by these sorts of games.

Wow, we were lucky that the Mexicans didn't pot 2, 3 easy goals, and we never had the ball for more than 5 seconds at a time.  USA USA!


5 seconds at a time?  Did you watch the first half?  No how I know you didn't watch the first half?
 
2013-03-27 10:36:04 AM  
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-27 10:36:52 AM  
And only a few metric tons of urine were thrown on the field
 
2013-03-27 10:38:10 AM  
Considering our record in Mexico, that was a big point.
 
2013-03-27 10:39:01 AM  
All I know is, lucky 0-0 is worth just as many points in the standings as legitimate 0-0.
 
2013-03-27 10:39:15 AM  
I'm really loving Guzan after these last few games. I was nervous with Howard being out due to injury, but Guzan is an awesome alternative.

It's really unsettling they only had one legit shot last night. That kind of offensive performance will barely contend with CONCACAF's shiattiest teams; they're toast if that's what they can put up against the Spains and Germanys of the world.
 
2013-03-27 10:39:23 AM  
Pratt... back to Pratt... Pratt again... a long ball out to Pratt... and now Pratt is on the ball, a neat little flick back inside to Pratt, who takes it nicely and sends it through on the far side to Pratt, Pratt with it but passes instead to Pratt, Pratt again, oh and well intercepted by the swarthy little number nine, Concito ' Maracon. This twenty-one-year-old half back, remarkably stocky for 6' 3", square shouldered, balding giant, hair flowing in the wind, bright eyed, pert, young for his age but oh so old in so many ways. For a thirty-nine.year-old you wouldn't expect such speed. Normally considered slow, he's incredibly fast as he wanders aimlessly around, sweeping up and taking the defense to the cleaners. Who would have thought, though many expected it, that this remarkable forty-five-year-old, 9' 4" dwarf of a man, who is still only seventeen in some parts of the world, would ever really be ... Oh and there was a goal there apparently ... and now it's Pratt ... back to Pratt... Pratt again... a long ball to Pratt...
 
2013-03-27 10:39:34 AM  

kidgenius: So is the laser pointer thing just an Azteca thing that they do to the Americans?


Usually they throw rocks.
 
2013-03-27 10:39:41 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 580x857]


Came for this. Thanks.
 
2013-03-27 10:40:21 AM  
Haha! Suck it, Mexico, you couldn't beat us in a game that we don't even care about, and that REALLY REALLY matters to you.
 
2013-03-27 10:41:07 AM  

MugzyBrown: We'll never be a real soccer team until we're no longer pleased by these sorts of games.


Nah, not buying that.  The worst of the hexagonal schedule is behind the USMNT.  A win would have been nice, but it wasn't necessary.
 
2013-03-27 10:43:29 AM  

MugzyBrown: We'll never be a real soccer team until we're no longer pleased by these sorts of games.

Wow, we were lucky that the Mexicans didn't pot 2, 3 easy goals, and we never had the ball for more than 5 seconds at a time.  USA USA!


While I'm picking up what you're putting out, this was a solid tie.  Three points is, obviously, ideal, but, come on.  Picking up a point in the Azteca on a defensive performance from a make-shift back line where your left back is getting abused all game and your center backs combined for a total of, like, eight caps?  I'll take it.
 
2013-03-27 10:43:38 AM  

MugzyBrown: We'll never be a real soccer team until we're no longer pleased by these sorts of games.

Wow, we were lucky that the Mexicans didn't pot 2, 3 easy goals, and we never had the ball for more than 5 seconds at a time.  USA USA!


why wouldn't we be pleased?  while our #1 keeper, several of our top defenders, and others were out with injury, our long time captain and best midfielder was wandering on a spirit search (or whatever), playing in one of the most hostile road environments in the world, against our biggest (and likely most talented) rivals from concacaf, conceding 15 corners, and playing like shiat at some points the team managed to steal a point.  we should be please.  not necessarily at the level of play, but at the result.  and this is a result base qualifying system.

/win at home. steal on the road. go to brazil.
 
2013-03-27 10:44:16 AM  
NASCAR DONT TIE!!
 
2013-03-27 10:44:51 AM  
Yesterday I enjoyed reading about the Mexico fan at Azteca that chugged some beer, stuck his finger down his throat, and vomited back into his cup, which he then tossed at a US player.  That's pretty classy stuff, ya know.
 
2013-03-27 10:45:58 AM  

The Third Man: MugzyBrown: We'll never be a real soccer team until we're no longer pleased by these sorts of games.

Nah, not buying that.  The worst of the hexagonal schedule is behind the USMNT.  A win would have been nice, but it wasn't necessary.


In CONCACAF, the US should seriously schedule every game for someplace with snow in the forecast. Denver was perfect for a warm-weather, sea-level opponent like Costa Rica. Like the altitude at Azteca, it's our strongest homefield advantage. We should only ever play Mexico in Seattle or Portland, or failing that, Phoenix. But only after arresting the families of Mexico's players for being illegals.

As for being pleased, only 8 countries have ever won at Azteca (the US is one of them), and only Brazil and Peru have done it twice.
 
2013-03-27 10:46:20 AM  
I will never ever ever ever complain about coming out of Azteca with a point.

I'm so glad that game's over. Every time the USMNT goes to Mexico City, the fans there get me to become situationally racist. Laser pointers? Really? I guess it's marginally better than excrement.
 
2013-03-27 10:48:55 AM  
A thrilling tie! A tie that will go down in history!

I've never seen such a fabulous display of 0 goals. I know I'll never forget all the fancy passing and jogging that led to 0 goals being scored after 90 minutes of furious action.
 
2013-03-27 10:50:07 AM  

bearcats1983: I'm really loving Guzan after these last few games. I was nervous with Howard being out due to injury, but Guzan is an awesome alternative.



GK is the only position I have never worried about for the US.
 
2013-03-27 10:52:43 AM  
Hey, I guess it happens in Bucharest, too.

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-27 10:54:31 AM  
The game was ugly and the US was very fortunate a penalty wasn't given (or perhaps two) but a point at the Azteca is an accomplishment for sure.
 
2013-03-27 10:56:23 AM  
The U.S. is lucky to have stolen a point, and the referee is luckier that he made it out alive.
 
2013-03-27 10:57:29 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Hey, I guess it happens in Bucharest, too.


Nope..that's photographic evidence of super lamps powers oozing out of his skull.
 
2013-03-27 10:58:15 AM  
That was the biggest ass kicking by an American in Mexico since Winfield Scott
 
2013-03-27 10:58:40 AM  

StRalphTheLiar: bearcats1983: I'm really loving Guzan after these last few games. I was nervous with Howard being out due to injury, but Guzan is an awesome alternative.


GK is the only position I have never worried about for the US.


Why is that?
As much as our national teams have truly suffered in international competition the general rule is that our Goal Keepers are outstanding.  Its a rather odd curiosity of US Soccer.
 
2013-03-27 10:58:51 AM  
pbs.twimg.com
 
2013-03-27 10:59:38 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Nana's Vibrator: MugzyBrown: We'll never be a real soccer team until we're no longer pleased by these sorts of games.

Wow, we were lucky that the Mexicans didn't pot 2, 3 easy goals, and we never had the ball for more than 5 seconds at a time.  USA USA!

In their defense, it's hard to have the ball for 5 seconds when the other team is faking an injury, the whistle blows, and 4 or 5 guys surround the ref for 2 minutes.

Wait. That was an NBA game I was watching?


Pretty much.  In the eyes of an American sports fan,  soccer can be the worst of the worlds of our major sports.  You have the contact whistles and flopping and referee complaining of basketball, you have the low scoring of hockey, and the slow pace of baseball.
I like soccer when the game is respected and played right - as goes with any other sport.
 
2013-03-27 10:59:45 AM  

ScouserDuck: TheShavingofOccam123: Hey, I guess it happens in Bucharest, too.

Nope..that's photographic evidence of super lamps powers oozing out of his skull.


Either that or he's a terminator.
 
2013-03-27 11:00:21 AM  

Wicked Chinchilla: StRalphTheLiar: bearcats1983: I'm really loving Guzan after these last few games. I was nervous with Howard being out due to injury, but Guzan is an awesome alternative.


GK is the only position I have never worried about for the US.

Why is that?
As much as our national teams have truly suffered in international competition the general rule is that our Goal Keepers are outstanding.  Its a rather odd curiosity of US Soccer.


They do get a lot of practice.
 
2013-03-27 11:03:37 AM  

Wicked Chinchilla: Why is that?
As much as our national teams have truly suffered in international competition the general rule is that our Goal Keepers are outstanding. Its a rather odd curiosity of US Soccer.


Because if you're an undersized small forward, your basketball skills translate very easily to the soccer pitch as a GK.

That's my theory, anyway.
 
2013-03-27 11:03:46 AM  

Wicked Chinchilla: StRalphTheLiar: bearcats1983: I'm really loving Guzan after these last few games. I was nervous with Howard being out due to injury, but Guzan is an awesome alternative.


GK is the only position I have never worried about for the US.

Why is that?
As much as our national teams have truly suffered in international competition the general rule is that our Goal Keepers are outstanding.  Its a rather odd curiosity of US Soccer.


Shot in the dark, but maybe it's due to we folks in the US growing-up playing more hand-centric sports.  IDK.
 
2013-03-27 11:04:13 AM  
An unusual high-scoring affair in run around on a grass field kicking a ball back and forth between your friends game.
 
2013-03-27 11:04:51 AM  

Hang On Voltaire: That was the biggest ass kicking by an American in Mexico since Winfield Scott


El Bozo?

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-27 11:07:24 AM  

Wicked Chinchilla: StRalphTheLiar: bearcats1983: I'm really loving Guzan after these last few games. I was nervous with Howard being out due to injury, but Guzan is an awesome alternative.


GK is the only position I have never worried about for the US.

Why is that?
As much as our national teams have truly suffered in international competition the general rule is that our Goal Keepers are outstanding.  Its a rather odd curiosity of US Soccer.


I blame (American) football and baseball. Most kids in the US who get into sports learn hand-eye coordination from throwing/catching in one of those sports. There is also a reaction time component, especially playing infield in baseball.
 
2013-03-27 11:09:16 AM  

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: And by the US actually getting calls in Azteca. It was a weird night. A good point, but lots of stuff went our way that usually doesn't.


VvonderJesus: The U.S. is lucky to have stolen a point, and the referee is luckier that he made it out alive.



absolutely!  that no-call on the takedown from behind (what, 75th minute thereabouts?) with mexico knocking on the door?  yeeeeeeesh.

we'll take it but yeah, USA got lucky.  like that long shot off the crossbar, too (although the USA keeper didn't appear to make much of an effort on the ball).
 
2013-03-27 11:10:09 AM  

Gonz: Wicked Chinchilla: Why is that?
As much as our national teams have truly suffered in international competition the general rule is that our Goal Keepers are outstanding. Its a rather odd curiosity of US Soccer.

Because if you're an undersized small forward, your basketball skills translate very easily to the soccer pitch as a GK.

That's my theory, anyway.


You could make a strong argument that GK is a mixture of basketball forward, football receiver, and baseball shortstop.
 
2013-03-27 11:11:08 AM  
CONCACAF maybe should have two qualification places, but not three. That said, it was a decent result considering the objectives.
 
2013-03-27 11:13:08 AM  

MBooda: Hang On Voltaire: That was the biggest ass kicking by an American in Mexico since Winfield Scott

El Bozo?

2.bp.blogspot.com

"Hoy Don Francisco tiene 100 años. Entre sus aficiones están lanzando orina y fes en América futbolistas. Pasa sus días jugando con las putas rojas y sus tetas musicales."
 
2013-03-27 11:15:18 AM  

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: SilentStrider: I was impressed.

I was impressed by Chicharito missing 2-3 shots he usually makes.  And by the US actually getting calls in Azteca.  It was a weird night.  A good point, but lots of stuff went our way that usually doesn't.


pretty much this
but i'll take it, cause like you said, we rarely get calls our way

scoreboard

/is it ironic to use that phrase when 'he who uses it' hates soccer ?
 
2013-03-27 11:18:45 AM  

Gonz: I will never ever ever ever complain about coming out of Azteca with a point.

I'm so glad that game's over. Every time the USMNT goes to Mexico City, the fans there get me to become situationally racist. Laser pointers? Really? I guess it's marginally better than excrement.


Soccer fans in general are the worst sports fans in the world. It's not a Mexican-specific thing. Hell, didn't the turks try to burn down their own stadium during a match using road flares?
 
2013-03-27 11:20:55 AM  

rickythepenguin: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: And by the US actually getting calls in Azteca. It was a weird night. A good point, but lots of stuff went our way that usually doesn't.

VvonderJesus: The U.S. is lucky to have stolen a point, and the referee is luckier that he made it out alive.


absolutely!  that no-call on the takedown from behind (what, 75th minute thereabouts?) with mexico knocking on the door?  yeeeeeeesh.

we'll take it but yeah, USA got lucky.  like that long shot off the crossbar, too (although the USA keeper didn't appear to make much of an effort on the ball).


It didnt hit the cross bar, it hit the stabilizers holding the net up behind the goal. He didnt make an attempt because he knew it was clear over.
 
2013-03-27 11:21:03 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: MBooda: Hang On Voltaire: That was the biggest ass kicking by an American in Mexico since Winfield Scott

El Bozo?
[2.bp.blogspot.com image 238x320]

"Hoy Don Francisco tiene 100 años. Entre sus aficiones están lanzando orina y fes en América futbolistas. Pasa sus días jugando con las putas rojas y sus tetas musicales."


Feliz Compleanos Don Francisco
 
2013-03-27 11:21:14 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: kidgenius: So is the laser pointer thing just an Azteca thing that they do to the Americans? Is it done to all visitors? Do other stadia across the world have this issue?

Quienes mas macho. It takes real cojones to put someone's eyes out from the nosebleed section. At least this time they didn't throw bottles of shiat and urine at US players.


It happens a lot in Europe too. Almost every Spanish league game I've seen this year has the green laser on someone's face. I don't see it much in the EPL but it happens there too.

I wish they would find the culprits and really fark em up.

The US should have easily taken this match. They are a good team, much better than Mexico's.
 
2013-03-27 11:23:53 AM  

Lost Thought 00: Gonz: I will never ever ever ever complain about coming out of Azteca with a point.

I'm so glad that game's over. Every time the USMNT goes to Mexico City, the fans there get me to become situationally racist. Laser pointers? Really? I guess it's marginally better than excrement.

Soccer fans in general are the worst sports fans in the world. It's not a Mexican-specific thing. Hell, didn't the turks try to burn down their own stadium during a match using road flares?


You can take all of the Eastern European racists and Thugs and you still wouldn't have fans as bad as raider fans.

Wasn't there also a horrid beating at a baseball game...giants fans pummeling a dodger fan..or something like that? Maybe it's just California. California is the Eastern Europe of the US.
 
2013-03-27 11:26:52 AM  

ScouserDuck: It didnt hit the cross bar, it hit the stabilizers holding the net up behind the goal. He didnt make an attempt because he knew it was clear over.


oh my bad.

yeah, i guess why that explains why GK was so casual.

there was also a play where the ball was wide but one of the announcers was like "YES!! oh nevermind..."  i thought Harry Caray was in the booth for a second.
 
2013-03-27 11:27:38 AM  

ScouserDuck: Lost Thought 00: Gonz: I will never ever ever ever complain about coming out of Azteca with a point.

I'm so glad that game's over. Every time the USMNT goes to Mexico City, the fans there get me to become situationally racist. Laser pointers? Really? I guess it's marginally better than excrement.

Soccer fans in general are the worst sports fans in the world. It's not a Mexican-specific thing. Hell, didn't the turks try to burn down their own stadium during a match using road flares?

You can take all of the Eastern European racists and Thugs and you still wouldn't have fans as bad as raider fans.

Wasn't there also a horrid beating at a baseball game...giants fans pummeling a dodger fan..or something like that? Maybe it's just California. California is the Eastern Europe of the US.


Also applies to  RedRaiders fans. Tx Tech has the worst fans in college football.
 
2013-03-27 11:29:05 AM  

rickythepenguin: ScouserDuck: It didnt hit the cross bar, it hit the stabilizers holding the net up behind the goal. He didnt make an attempt because he knew it was clear over.

oh my bad.

yeah, i guess why that explains why GK was so casual.

there was also a play where the ball was wide but one of the announcers was like "YES!! oh nevermind..."  i thought Harry Caray was in the booth for a second.


Yeah. There were a couple of shots that were inches wide but looked like they were in the net. I'm taking the couch cushions in to get dry cleaned today.
 
2013-03-27 11:29:19 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 580x857]


Great movie.
 
2013-03-27 11:32:15 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: TheShavingofOccam123: Nana's Vibrator: MugzyBrown: We'll never be a real soccer team until we're no longer pleased by these sorts of games.

Wow, we were lucky that the Mexicans didn't pot 2, 3 easy goals, and we never had the ball for more than 5 seconds at a time.  USA USA!

In their defense, it's hard to have the ball for 5 seconds when the other team is faking an injury, the whistle blows, and 4 or 5 guys surround the ref for 2 minutes.

Wait. That was an NBA game I was watching?

Pretty much.  In the eyes of an American sports fan,  soccer can be the worst of the worlds of our major sports.  You have the contact whistles and flopping and referee complaining of basketball, you have the low scoring of hockey, and the slow pace of baseball.
I like soccer when the game is respected and played right - as goes with any other sport.


Calm down fellow hockey fans, he's right. We're down to 2.69 goals per game, and we haven't had two consecutive seasons above 3 GPG since 1993.

High scoring in basketball takes some of the punch out of the game too, though. A 119-118 win in a game where someone scores every thirty seconds sounds more like a coin toss or unfortunate positioning in a game of inky-pinky-ponky than a clear result of some competitive event.
 
2013-03-27 11:32:36 AM  

ScouserDuck: Lost Thought 00: Gonz: I will never ever ever ever complain about coming out of Azteca with a point.

I'm so glad that game's over. Every time the USMNT goes to Mexico City, the fans there get me to become situationally racist. Laser pointers? Really? I guess it's marginally better than excrement.

Soccer fans in general are the worst sports fans in the world. It's not a Mexican-specific thing. Hell, didn't the turks try to burn down their own stadium during a match using road flares?

You can take all of the Eastern European racists and Thugs and you still wouldn't have fans as bad as raider fans.

Wasn't there also a horrid beating at a baseball game...giants fans pummeling a dodger fan..or something like that? Maybe it's just California. California is the Eastern Europe of the US.


I quit watching Whacked Out Sports on broadcast TV when they showed a fan being knifed at a Raiders game.

You would think a nice set of misters would show the laser beams coming out of the stands and running right back up to the shooter.
 
2013-03-27 11:32:37 AM  
Soccer is like golf - fun to play but horribly boring to watch.
 
2013-03-27 11:34:17 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: low scoring of hockey


Both the NHL and NCAA have changed a number of hockey rules over the last several years with the specific intentions of increasing scoring and reducing the number of ties, in order to maintain or increase their audiences. Soccer may need similar changes to catch on in the US.
 
2013-03-27 11:34:38 AM  

Flakeloaf: Nana's Vibrator: TheShavingofOccam123: Nana's Vibrator: MugzyBrown: We'll never be a real soccer team until we're no longer pleased by these sorts of games.

Wow, we were lucky that the Mexicans didn't pot 2, 3 easy goals, and we never had the ball for more than 5 seconds at a time.  USA USA!

In their defense, it's hard to have the ball for 5 seconds when the other team is faking an injury, the whistle blows, and 4 or 5 guys surround the ref for 2 minutes.

Wait. That was an NBA game I was watching?

Pretty much.  In the eyes of an American sports fan,  soccer can be the worst of the worlds of our major sports.  You have the contact whistles and flopping and referee complaining of basketball, you have the low scoring of hockey, and the slow pace of baseball.
I like soccer when the game is respected and played right - as goes with any other sport.

Calm down fellow hockey fans, he's right. We're down to 2.69 goals per game, and we haven't had two consecutive seasons above 3 GPG since 1993.

High scoring in basketball takes some of the punch out of the game too, though. A 119-118 win in a game where someone scores every thirty seconds sounds more like a coin toss or unfortunate positioning in a game of inky-pinky-ponky than a clear result of some competitive event.


You're absolutely right. I generally will only watch the last 5 minutes of a bball game. That alone usually takes 30 min. due to fouls and time outs.
 
2013-03-27 11:36:01 AM  

Lee's_Austin: A defensive performance for the ages.  Well done, Besler and Gonzalez.


This...wouldn't be surprised if some lesser clubs in Europe come calling for Gonzalez in the near future.
 
2013-03-27 11:36:31 AM  

Lego_Addict: It happens a lot in Europe too. Almost every Spanish league game I've seen this year has the green laser on someone's face. I don't see it much in the EPL but it happens there too.

I wish they would find the culprits and really fark em up.


Yeah, the green lasers are really appalling. I don't care if someone's rooting for my team or not - that shiat is unacceptable and makes your team/fanbase/country look bad.
I don't doubt that stadium authorities in many places are on the side of the assholes who use the pointers, though (or sufficiently cowed to not make a difference).  Sad.
 
2013-03-27 11:38:09 AM  
And we will be waiting for Mexico here in Columbus in September to take a full 3 points from them./we don't always beat Mexico,but when we do it is 2-0 in Columbus
 
2013-03-27 11:38:20 AM  

bearcats1983: I'm really loving Guzan after these last few games. I was nervous with Howard being out due to injury, but Guzan is an awesome alternative.

It's really unsettling they only had one legit shot last night. That kind of offensive performance will barely contend with CONCACAF's shiattiest teams; they're toast if that's what they can put up against the Spains and Germanys of the world.


They just couldn't keep the ball last night.  They either tried Hollywood passes or got pressured off the ball.

/a Swansea would've passed them off the park
//while Arsenal would've tried to pass it in...
///old joke is old
 
2013-03-27 11:39:22 AM  

Rwa2play: bearcats1983: I'm really loving Guzan after these last few games. I was nervous with Howard being out due to injury, but Guzan is an awesome alternative.

It's really unsettling they only had one legit shot last night. That kind of offensive performance will barely contend with CONCACAF's shiattiest teams; they're toast if that's what they can put up against the Spains and Germanys of the world.

They just couldn't keep the ball last night.  They either tried Hollywood passes or got pressured off the ball.

/a Swansea would've passed them off the park
//while Arsenal would've tried to pass it in...
///old joke is old


Walk it in....
 
2013-03-27 11:39:36 AM  

literaldeluxe: Soccer may need similar changes to catch on in the US.


i grew up playing soccer and still like having a kick at the park.  i don't think soccer will ever "catch" in the US and I don't give a shiat.  there are a ton of fans that love the game and a majority of haters, but fark them.  we love the game and don't want to see it changed.  people hav ementioned enlarging the goal, eliminating offside (the most common recommendations) but soccer's governing body would never, ever agree to that and they shouldn't.  those that care about the game are raving about the 0-0 finish (and what it means for WC quals, better get your ass in gear, Mexico).  those that hate, who cares.  I don't really care for hockey but i'm not running around every hockey thread screaming about how gay it is.

but don't change the game.

/ok, change the game to add a ref in each half of the field.  the ball can go from penalty box to penalty box  in 5 seconds.  the ref just cannot see all the stuff going on and a second pair of eyes on the field (the lineman response is unsatisfactory) would help.  but yeah, that willl never happen either so WFC.
 
2013-03-27 11:40:10 AM  

Rwa2play: bearcats1983: I'm really loving Guzan after these last few games. I was nervous with Howard being out due to injury, but Guzan is an awesome alternative.

It's really unsettling they only had one legit shot last night. That kind of offensive performance will barely contend with CONCACAF's shiattiest teams; they're toast if that's what they can put up against the Spains and Germanys of the world.

They just couldn't keep the ball last night.  They either tried Hollywood passes or got pressured off the ball.

/a Swansea would've passed them off the park
//while Arsenal would've tried to pass it in...
///old joke is old


Bradley played his ass off.  To no avail.
 
2013-03-27 11:40:33 AM  

Lost Thought 00: Soccer fans in general are the worst sports fans in the world.


Let me guess, you're one of those so called "fair weather sport fans" that don't believe in supporting your team and encouraging them to end a losing streak with some well intended murder, kidnapping and/or blackmailing.  Your lack of passion sickens me.
 
2013-03-27 11:41:21 AM  

This text is now purple: The Third Man: MugzyBrown: We'll never be a real soccer team until we're no longer pleased by these sorts of games.

Nah, not buying that.  The worst of the hexagonal schedule is behind the USMNT.  A win would have been nice, but it wasn't necessary.

In CONCACAF, the US should seriously schedule every game for someplace with snow in the forecast. Denver was perfect for a warm-weather, sea-level opponent like Costa Rica. Like the altitude at Azteca, it's our strongest homefield advantage. We should only ever play Mexico in Seattle or Portland, or failing that, Phoenix. But only after arresting the families of Mexico's players for being illegals.

As for being pleased, only 8 countries have ever won at Azteca (the US is one of them), and only Brazil and Peru have done it twice.



We're only two or three hundred feet above sea level in Portland. I mean, it does rain a ton but the temperature is pretty temperate. Not exactly hostile territory for a team from El Carib up here.
 
2013-03-27 11:41:54 AM  

Rwa2play: They just couldn't keep the ball last night. They either tried Hollywood passes or got pressured off the ball.


it was sloppy as shiat on both sides.  dreadful first touches.  the ball was clanking about all damn night.  very sloppy passes and ball control was just bad.  not surprised at all at the lack of legit chances.
 
2013-03-27 11:42:35 AM  

rickythepenguin: literaldeluxe: Soccer may need similar changes to catch on in the US.

i grew up playing soccer and still like having a kick at the park.  i don't think soccer will ever "catch" in the US and I don't give a shiat.  there are a ton of fans that love the game and a majority of haters, but fark them.  we love the game and don't want to see it changed.  people hav ementioned enlarging the goal, eliminating offside (the most common recommendations) but soccer's governing body would never, ever agree to that and they shouldn't.  those that care about the game are raving about the 0-0 finish (and what it means for WC quals, better get your ass in gear, Mexico).  those that hate, who cares.  I don't really care for hockey but i'm not running around every hockey thread screaming about how gay it is.

but don't change the game.

/ok, change the game to add a ref in each half of the field.  the ball can go from penalty box to penalty box  in 5 seconds.  the ref just cannot see all the stuff going on and a second pair of eyes on the field (the lineman response is unsatisfactory) would help.  but yeah, that willl never happen either so WFC.


Agreed.
 
2013-03-27 11:45:43 AM  

rickythepenguin: literaldeluxe: Soccer may need similar changes to catch on in the US.

i grew up playing soccer and still like having a kick at the park.  i don't think soccer will ever "catch" in the US and I don't give a shiat.


Uh, you're talking about a country where they sold out stadia when Pele played for the Cosmos and for the World Cup in 1994 (above and beyond everyone's expectations).

It wouldn't happen overnight, I expected that.  You need a charismatic player to be the symbol of the National Team and/or (in a repeat of the NASL) top players coming here to play.  The MLS is doing okay for all intents and purposes; but if major stars (like your Messis, et. al.) ever came over in the primes of their careers, you could see that shift happening.
 
2013-03-27 11:46:12 AM  
This can only lead to an ever increasing influx of illegals as their shame and disappointment in their own team will force them to flee and seek our large american lawn mowers.
 
2013-03-27 11:46:13 AM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: We should only ever play Mexico in Seattle or Portland, or failing that, Phoenix. But only after arresting the families of Mexico's players for being illegals.



i would love to see a qualifier in Phoenix!!!!  we had a really odd friendly a few years back, something like Egypt vs Cyrpus or Morocco v Trinidad Tobago or some shiat.  very odd teams that had to fly literally, halfway across the world.

and I think we had something like Sweden / Costa Rica pretty recently, but the game started at 830 on a Tuesday nigth and the stadium is a mother to get to on a "school night", and the matchup wasn't compelling so I didn't go.  ehh.
 
2013-03-27 11:47:26 AM  

literaldeluxe: Nana's Vibrator: low scoring of hockey

Both the NHL and NCAA have changed a number of hockey rules over the last several years with the specific intentions of increasing scoring and reducing the number of ties, in order to maintain or increase their audiences. Soccer may need similar changes to catch on in the US.


We did that. We put in shootouts, made the clock count down, you know what happened?

The rest of the soccer world just stood there and mocked us without mercy until we changed the rules back to normal. America does not get to decide the rules of soccer. America does not even get to have any sort of real influence in the rules of soccer. (Literally. When rule changes are considered, there are eight votes out there and you need six. FIFA controls four. The other four belong to England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, aka 'the people who actually invented the damn thing'.) We have not yet even earned the right to be taken seriously when it comes to rule changes. Perhaps if we were early adopters, it'd be different, but we're one of the last ones on board. They don't have to accommodate us. We have to accommodate them.

Basically, the United States ordering the rules of soccer be changed is like the Netherlands ordering that the rules of baseball be changed. Yeah, you've won a bit lately, but that doesn't give you the right to act like you own the place.
 
2013-03-27 11:47:42 AM  
Wicked Chinchilla
As much as our national teams have truly suffered in international competition the general rule is that our Goal Keepers are outstanding. Its a rather odd curiosity of US Soccer.


That's not really a curiosity.
Weaker teams often have decent goalies or at least they're perceived as such.
More work for the goalie = more opportunities to excel&save the day and fewer opportunities to make the single mistake that loses the game.
If your team is outplayed and there are 10 good attempts on your goal and you can save all but one, you still look awesome even if the one that goes in happens to be your fault. Even if you lose the game 0:1 that way, the general impression will be that with a different goalie the game would have ended 0:5.

If, OTOH, you can get in half an hour of sleep between 2-3 half-assed attempts on your goal in 90 minutes, you can only hope that you haven't gone cold and that you can make the save and don't make a mistake. Because if you f*ck up, you might not get another opportunity to show your skills. See Germany's Manuel Neuer yesterday as an example.
 
2013-03-27 11:47:57 AM  

rickythepenguin: Rwa2play: They just couldn't keep the ball last night. They either tried Hollywood passes or got pressured off the ball.

it was sloppy as shiat on both sides.  dreadful first touches.  the ball was clanking about all damn night.  very sloppy passes and ball control was just bad.  not surprised at all at the lack of legit chances.


True; still think it was a case of trying the Hollywood pass for the US when they just need to play within themselves.  Mexico should've killed them in the first half but they ran out of ideas as the game wore on.
 
2013-03-27 11:49:23 AM  

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: SilentStrider: I was impressed.

I was impressed by Chicharito missing 2-3 shots he usually makes.  And by the US actually getting calls in Azteca.  It was a weird night.  A good point, but lots of stuff went our way that usually doesn't.


Pretty much this.  They should have lost.  Chicharito best soccer player name ever.
 
2013-03-27 11:50:01 AM  
So watching the game I was surprised the way there were no Mexican fans in the first 10 or so rows - wondering if it was to eliminate the projectile throwing.

Didn't see anything really land on the pitch. Just teh lazors.
 
2013-03-27 11:52:23 AM  

dk47: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: SilentStrider: I was impressed.

I was impressed by Chicharito missing 2-3 shots he usually makes.  And by the US actually getting calls in Azteca.  It was a weird night.  A good point, but lots of stuff went our way that usually doesn't.

Pretty much this.  They should have lost.  Chicharito best soccer player name ever.


You misspelled "Messi".
 
2013-03-27 11:52:42 AM  

Rwa2play: Uh, you're talking about a country where they sold out stadia when Pele played for the Cosmos and for the World Cup in 1994 (above and beyond everyone's expectations).


yeah, and NASL is just destorying it these days, isn't it?


Rwa2play: ou need a charismatic player to be the symbol of the National Team and/or (in a repeat of the NASL) top players coming here to play. The MLS is doing okay for all intents and purposes; but if major stars (like your Messis, et. al.) ever came over in the primes of their careers, you could see that shift happening.


again, i'm a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge soccer fan.  i took off work to watch the Women's WC a few years ago.  But the "wouldn't it be great if we had a 'face' of the US WC team?" argument didn't work for Landon Donovan, Alexi Lalas, Tony Meoli (or whateve rhis damn name was) and Dempsey isn't that charismatic....you're making the same arguments people made in the 1994 WC:  "it will take a few years but it will happen."  twenty years later we're still awaiting this american savior of soccer.

it would be nice if it happens, i guess, but i don't care. i don't need soccer to blow the fark up in America.  It has its own niche and its own rabid motherfarking fanbase.  like in 2002, i went to bed at like, 5pm to wake up at 3AM to watch USA/Mexico live.  there's tons of fans like that and we don't care if the nation shuts down to watch our Super Bowl / NBA finals game 7 / MLB game 7.
 
2013-03-27 11:52:47 AM  
The USMNT just played the hardest game remaining prior to the World Cup (assuming they don't end up in 4th place and have to play-in). Klinsmann did a great job putting people out of their comfort zones to see how they stand up to real pressure. The 0-0 result was hard fought and fair IMO (I disagree that there should have been a PK awarded).

The article doesn't go far enough. That was only the 5th point earned by the U.S. on Mexican soil in any stadium. EVER. It is a huge deal even though it may not seem like a lot to uneducated observers.
 
2013-03-27 11:53:34 AM  
In related news, the Mexican coach has updated his will and said goodbye to his family in preparation for his upcoming murder.
 
2013-03-27 11:53:35 AM  

Wicked Chinchilla: StRalphTheLiar: bearcats1983: I'm really loving Guzan after these last few games. I was nervous with Howard being out due to injury, but Guzan is an awesome alternative.


GK is the only position I have never worried about for the US.

Why is that?
As much as our national teams have truly suffered in international competition the general rule is that our Goal Keepers are outstanding.  Its a rather odd curiosity of US Soccer.


The position does not rely on actual soccer ability.
 
2013-03-27 11:55:00 AM  

Rwa2play: Mexico should've killed them in the first half but they ran out of ideas as the game wore on.


and i thought the mexican players looked more winded as the game wore on.

why were they booing Bradley on every touch?  i missed the first 5-10 minutes.  did he have an ugly foul?
 
2013-03-27 11:55:42 AM  

Rwa2play: dk47: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: SilentStrider: I was impressed.

I was impressed by Chicharito missing 2-3 shots he usually makes.  And by the US actually getting calls in Azteca.  It was a weird night.  A good point, but lots of stuff went our way that usually doesn't.

Pretty much this.  They should have lost.  Chicharito best soccer player name ever.

You misspelled "Messi".


You're both wrong.
 
2013-03-27 11:55:52 AM  

literaldeluxe: Nana's Vibrator: low scoring of hockey

Both the NHL and NCAA have changed a number of hockey rules over the last several years with the specific intentions of increasing scoring and reducing the number of ties, in order to maintain or increase their audiences. Soccer may need similar changes to catch on in the US.


You probably haven't noticed, but soccer IS catching on in the US, however gradually.  We had a rather large contingent of fans in Mexico last night, MLS is doing quite well, and the game has never been more popular here.

No, it will not become a passion for the majority of Americans, but that doesn't mean they need to change the game.
 
2013-03-27 11:57:15 AM  

Kuta: (I disagree that there should have been a PK awarded).


i thought that was academic;  dude got scissored from behind and the ball seemed an afterthought.  i'd have to see a replay but in-game, i thought that should have been called and on those replays, it seemed like a foul.  i'd have to see it now to revisit that but i thought that was a foul.   i could understand why the Mexicans were in the refs' faces afterwards.
 
2013-03-27 11:59:58 AM  

rickythepenguin: But the "wouldn't it be great if we had a 'face' of the US WC team?" argument didn't work for Landon Donovan, Alexi Lalas, Tony Meoli (or whateve rhis damn name was) and Dempsey isn't that charismatic


worth nothing that Mia Hamm and Brandi Chastain, in 2013, are still probably the "faces" of american soccer.  do you think anyone knows who Clint Dempsey is?  Jozy Altidore?  DaMarcus Beasley?
 
2013-03-27 12:00:47 PM  

rickythepenguin: Rwa2play: Uh, you're talking about a country where they sold out stadia when Pele played for the Cosmos and for the World Cup in 1994 (above and beyond everyone's expectations).

yeah, and NASL is just destorying it these days, isn't it?


Rwa2play: ou need a charismatic player to be the symbol of the National Team and/or (in a repeat of the NASL) top players coming here to play. The MLS is doing okay for all intents and purposes; but if major stars (like your Messis, et. al.) ever came over in the primes of their careers, you could see that shift happening.

again, i'm a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge soccer fan.  i took off work to watch the Women's WC a few years ago.  But the "wouldn't it be great if we had a 'face' of the US WC team?" argument didn't work for Landon Donovan, Alexi Lalas, Tony Meoli (or whateve rhis damn name was) and Dempsey isn't that charismatic....you're making the same arguments people made in the 1994 WC:  "it will take a few years but it will happen."  twenty years later we're still awaiting this american savior of soccer.

it would be nice if it happens, i guess, but i don't care. i don't need soccer to blow the fark up in America.  It has its own niche and its own rabid motherfarking fanbase.  like in 2002, i went to bed at like, 5pm to wake up at 3AM to watch USA/Mexico live.  there's tons of fans like that and we don't care if the nation shuts down to watch our Super Bowl / NBA finals game 7 / MLB game 7.


MLS is never going to compete with the big 4 (at least for an eon) but the World Cup has gone from a non event to a big draw:

"The game, viewed by 19.4 million viewers on ABC and Univision, topped the Italy vs. Brazil World Cup final in 1994 that was viewed by 18.1 million people on those two networks.

By contrast, Nielsen said, the 2010 NBA Finals averaged 18.1 million viewers per game, and the 2009 World Series averaged 19.1 million per game.

Of the 19.4 million who tuned in to ultimately see the U.S.' soccer dreams slip away last weekend, 4.5 million watched on Univision - which is on fire during this soccer tournament. Sunday's Argentina-Mexico match attracted 9.4 million viewers to Univision, making it the most-watched program on Spanish-language television in U.S. history, according to Univision."
 
2013-03-27 12:02:45 PM  

rickythepenguin: Kuta: (I disagree that there should have been a PK awarded).

i thought that was academic;  dude got scissored from behind and the ball seemed an afterthought.  i'd have to see a replay but in-game, i thought that should have been called and on those replays, it seemed like a foul.  i'd have to see it now to revisit that but i thought that was a foul.   i could understand why the Mexicans were in the refs' faces afterwards.


99.9% of the time that is a penalty in any league.
 
2013-03-27 12:04:15 PM  

The Voice of Doom: That's not really a curiosity.
Weaker teams often have decent goalies or at least they're perceived as such.


It's not just the men (Guzan, Howard, Friedel, Tony Meola, Zach Thornton, Kasey Keller, Marcus Hanhemann, Joe Cannon). Our women have standout goalies too and the women's team is among the elite (Briana Scurry, Hope Solo, Nicole Barnhart).
 
2013-03-27 12:06:29 PM  

fo_sho!: MLS is never going to compete with the big 4 (at least for an eon) but the World Cup has gone from a non event to a big draw:


i love telling this story in soccer threads....in the infamous Koman Coulibaly game, in the WC fark thread, maybe at most 3-4 minutes after the goal was waived off, someone posted a screencap of the Wiki for Mali.  it had already been altered to something like:

"mali is a shiatty country in africa.  its GDP was $150M.  its chief exports are tin, manganese, vanadium, and shiatty soccer referees.  it is well known for its hatred of the US  and men's soccer. Mali fails at life and should just farking die already."
 
2013-03-27 12:07:04 PM  

dk47: 99.9% of the time that is a penalty in any league.


I'm sayin'.
 
2013-03-27 12:08:55 PM  
A game with a 0-0 tie... that sounds about as entertaining as watching paint dry.
 
2013-03-27 12:09:35 PM  
Someone help me remember: is it that Chich has never scored against the US or just in WCQ?

/Google-fu is weak.
 
2013-03-27 12:11:15 PM  

dk47: rickythepenguin: Kuta: (I disagree that there should have been a PK awarded).

i thought that was academic;  dude got scissored from behind and the ball seemed an afterthought.  i'd have to see a replay but in-game, i thought that should have been called and on those replays, it seemed like a foul.  i'd have to see it now to revisit that but i thought that was a foul.   i could understand why the Mexicans were in the refs' faces afterwards.

99.9% of the time that is a penalty in any league.


No it's not.  Drunken fans don't just get to award penalties after the fact.  It is clear that there was no penalty.
 
2013-03-27 12:13:23 PM  

rickythepenguin: yeah, and NASL is just destorying it these days, isn't it?


The mighty San Antonio Scorpions will once again march on a road of bones.
 
2013-03-27 12:13:28 PM  

bearcats1983: I'm really loving Guzan after these last few games. I was nervous with Howard being out due to injury, but Guzan is an awesome alternative.


guzan was incredible.  did anyone watch the sports center immediately following the broadcast?

  our broadcasting standards need to improve as much as our game. also, alexi lalas is a real dick sometimes. very little chem between the broadcasters, makes it awkward.  and the highlight segment was embarrassing to watch. looked like four guys with no interest in the game trying to blunder their way through the piece as quickly as possible to get to the gahd damn penguins 13th win.
 
2013-03-27 12:14:10 PM  

rickythepenguin: fo_sho!: MLS is never going to compete with the big 4 (at least for an eon) but the World Cup has gone from a non event to a big draw:

i love telling this story in soccer threads....in the infamous Koman Coulibaly game, in the WC fark thread, maybe at most 3-4 minutes after the goal was waived off, someone posted a screencap of the Wiki for Mali.  it had already been altered to something like:

"mali is a shiatty country in africa.  its GDP was $150M.  its chief exports are tin, manganese, vanadium, and shiatty soccer referees.  it is well known for its hatred of the US  and men's soccer. Mali fails at life and should just farking die already."


Farking idiots disrespecting Wikipedia and Mali.  All the mouth-breathing fans are just terrible.  Who would wish death on a nation over a game.
 
2013-03-27 12:14:20 PM  

Lee's_Austin: Someone help me remember: is it that Chich has never scored against the US or just in WCQ?

/Google-fu is weak.


He hasn't scored against US at all. That 5-0 Gold Cup was all Dos Santos.
 
2013-03-27 12:14:35 PM  

Oldiron_79: A game with a 0-0 tie... that sounds about as entertaining as watching paint dry.


The key is, don't look at the goals themselves. Look at the scoring drives. The anticipation of a potential goal is what gets soccer fans going, same as what happens when a football team gets into the red zone. The goal doesn't have to actually come. If teams are bearing down, taking shots, and making the goalkeepers sweat all day long, that's enough.
 
2013-03-27 12:16:53 PM  

Trocadero: Lee's_Austin: Someone help me remember: is it that Chich has never scored against the US or just in WCQ?

/Google-fu is weak.

He hasn't scored against US at all. That 5-0 Gold Cup was all Dos Santos.


Thank you, sir.  Kinda wild.
 
2013-03-27 12:16:58 PM  
jagarr:   did anyone watch the sports center immediately following the broadcast?

Sportscenter lead with soccer and hockey highlights. I had to make sure I didn't fall in some worm hole to another dimension.
 
2013-03-27 12:17:05 PM  

rickythepenguin: Rwa2play: Uh, you're talking about a country where they sold out stadia when Pele played for the Cosmos and for the World Cup in 1994 (above and beyond everyone's expectations).

yeah, and NASL is just destorying it these days, isn't it?


Ya missed my point.  if you have players that become cross-cultural icons (like a LeBron), you will see the people come.  I still remember the articles coming out of the British tabloids declaring a World Cup in the US a disaster before the first ball was kicked; that were would be no interest whatsoever from the general public.

If the biggest stars in the game came to play here the attendances would skyrocket; interest in the MLS would grow exponentially.  That, however, would take a lot of cash on the owners end to do that; at this point they have no interest in MLS becoming NASL 2.0.
 
2013-03-27 12:18:31 PM  

Gosling: Oldiron_79: A game with a 0-0 tie... that sounds about as entertaining as watching paint dry.

The key is, don't look at the goals themselves. Look at the scoring drives. The anticipation of a potential goal is what gets soccer fans going, same as what happens when a football team gets into the red zone. The goal doesn't have to actually come. If teams are bearing down, taking shots, and making the goalkeepers sweat all day long, that's enough.


I'm guessing he's trolling.
 
2013-03-27 12:22:07 PM  

Rwa2play: dk47: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: SilentStrider: I was impressed.

I was impressed by Chicharito missing 2-3 shots he usually makes.  And by the US actually getting calls in Azteca.  It was a weird night.  A good point, but lots of stuff went our way that usually doesn't.

Pretty much this.  They should have lost.  Chicharito best soccer player name ever.

You misspelled "Messi".


"Maradona good, Pele better, George Best."  Best name ever.
 
2013-03-27 12:23:32 PM  
www.primermagazine.com

*shrug*
 
2013-03-27 12:23:38 PM  
So which team caught the golden snitch.
 
2013-03-27 12:24:12 PM  
I actually watched parts of this in the bar last night (no March Madness on). Here are some revelations I had:

1) No one knew how long the game lasted. We all assumed 60 minutes, and we were wrong.
2) No competition should ever end in 0-0. At least a tie-score or single elimination or something.
3) Soccer players flop more then NBA players, which is disgusting.
4) Even in a shiatty sport like soccer, it's fun to chant U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
 
2013-03-27 12:25:31 PM  
Mostly unrelated but farking Montenegro...
 
2013-03-27 12:25:41 PM  

Rwa2play: If the biggest stars in the game came to play here the attendances would skyrocket; interest in the MLS would grow exponentially. That, however, would take a lot of cash on the owners end to do that; at this point they have no interest in MLS becoming NASL 2.0.


MLS' ultimate goal is to have those players be homegrown. Importing stars only gets you so far. Again, yeah, NASL. Look at all the teams that WEREN'T the Cosmos. Any team that didn't have Pele on it was doomed. Johan Cruyff and George Best were over on the LA Aztecs and couldn't get over 14,000.
 
2013-03-27 12:26:39 PM  

Rwa2play: If the biggest stars in the game came to play here the attendances would skyrocket; interest in the MLS would grow exponentially.


washed up Thierry Henry, over the hill Beckham, old ass Roy Keane......no one cares.  i agree that if the marquee talent came here it would generate interest but on what possible basis do you believe Messi / Rooney / van Persie / GARETH MOTHERfarkING BALE would come to, you know, Columbus Crew, FC Dallas, Salt Lake?

You're basically arguing, "basketball in Turkey would explode if Kevin Durant / Blake Griffin / Chris Paul would play there!"
 
2013-03-27 12:28:00 PM  

literaldeluxe: Nana's Vibrator: low scoring of hockey

Both the NHL and NCAA have changed a number of hockey rules over the last several years with the specific intentions of increasing scoring and reducing the number of ties, in order to maintain or increase their audiences. Soccer may need similar changes to catch on in the US.


Except FIFA isn't going to change the rules of the game just to appeal to US non-soccer fans.  It's already the most popular/followed sport in the world, and the US audience for it is already big - just not as big as those for the traditional American sports.  Also, in the early days of MLS they tried fiddling with the rules to make the game more "American" for non-fans.  Things like the game clock counting down instead of up, all tie games going to penalty shootouts to prevent draws, etc.  All it did was alienate the existing soccer fanbase while failing to draw in new fans.  In the end, they did away with all of that and went to the standard laws of the game.
 
2013-03-27 12:28:38 PM  

VvonderJesus: jagarr:   did anyone watch the sports center immediately following the broadcast?

Sportscenter lead with soccer and hockey highlights. I had to make sure I didn't fall in some worm hole to another dimension.


Maybe they're finally figuring out that showing every NBA dunk every night isn't getting viewers?
 
2013-03-27 12:33:12 PM  
soccer is gay

/am I trolling right
 
2013-03-27 12:33:34 PM  

HellRaisingHoosier: I actually watched parts of this in the bar last night (no March Madness on). Here are some revelations I had:

1) No one knew how long the game lasted. We all assumed 60 minutes, and we were wrong.


A typical soccer broadcast lasts for about 2 hours with its 90 minute duration. A typical NBA/NFL/NHL broadcast lasts for about 3 hours with their 48/60/60 minute duration. So despite a longer clock, soccer takes less time to watch . And I'm a fan of all those leagues (NBA is definitely last on the totem pole)

2) No competition should ever end in 0-0. At least a tie-score or single elimination or something.

Eh. Not going to argue this. Ties happen in soccer. And the competition hasn't ended yet, as it's still just qualifying for the real competition in Brazil next summer.

3) Soccer players flop more then NBA players, which is disgusting.

This. It's more prevalent in Latin American countries, but Spain and especially Italy drive me crazy with the flopping. I'd say England and the USA do it less than most national teams,but it is still too much. I'd like retroactive yellow cards for simulation/diving but well, FIFA is awful slow to embrace common sense.

4) Even in a shiatty sport like soccer, it's fun to chant U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!

No sport is shiatty with the right crowd and mindset. Not even golf, baseball or cricket, all of which i find dull to watch by myself, but as a group (or with a few casual bets on the outcome) can be a blast.
 
2013-03-27 12:35:15 PM  

Begoggle: soccer is gay

/am I trolling right


All sports are inherently homo-erotic with the exception of nude Greco-Roman wrestling.

/Am I?
 
2013-03-27 12:35:52 PM  

Gosling: Rwa2play: If the biggest stars in the game came to play here the attendances would skyrocket; interest in the MLS would grow exponentially. That, however, would take a lot of cash on the owners end to do that; at this point they have no interest in MLS becoming NASL 2.0.

MLS' ultimate goal is to have those players be homegrown. Importing stars only gets you so far. Again, yeah, NASL. Look at all the teams that WEREN'T the Cosmos. Any team that didn't have Pele on it was doomed. Johan Cruyff and George Best were over on the LA Aztecs and couldn't get over 14,000.


Too true; then again, there hadn't been a World Cup in the US beforehand.  That World Cup did show that interest in the game was great, just not in a way that a domestic league would flourish with regular attendances that compared favorably with those in England or Germany.

rickythepenguin: Rwa2play: If the biggest stars in the game came to play here the attendances would skyrocket; interest in the MLS would grow exponentially.

washed up Thierry Henry, over the hill Beckham, old ass Roy Keane......no one cares.  i agree that if the marquee talent came here it would generate interest but on what possible basis do you believe Messi / Rooney / van Persie / GARETH MOTHERfarkING BALE would come to, you know, Columbus Crew, FC Dallas, Salt Lake?

You're basically arguing, "basketball in Turkey would explode if Kevin Durant / Blake Griffin / Chris Paul would play there!"


Marketing firms.  Where they as influential on culture in the 1970s as they are now?  I mean when you've got half-ass players like Manti Te'o generating interest in one sport, what would happen if you had Messi, Christiano Ronaldo or Rooney playing in certain markets?
 
2013-03-27 12:38:15 PM  

rickythepenguin: Rwa2play: If the biggest stars in the game came to play here the attendances would skyrocket; interest in the MLS would grow exponentially.

washed up Thierry Henry, over the hill Beckham, old ass Roy Keane......no one cares.  i agree that if the marquee talent came here it would generate interest but on what possible basis do you believe Messi / Rooney / van Persie / GARETH MOTHERfarkING BALE would come to, you know, Columbus Crew, FC Dallas, Salt Lake?

You're basically arguing, "basketball in Turkey would explode if Kevin Durant / Blake Griffin / Chris Paul would play there!"


It's moving in the right direction, though. Sounders FC just signed Obafemi Martins, a 28 y/o striker whom his team did not want to part ways with, from Levante in La Liga. So far as I know, he's the first player in the prime of his career to choose to come to MLS from a respected european league/team. Levante was in the midst of Europa League play and sits mid-table in La Liga and he was their leading scorer.

Progress is slow, but it's happening. MLS has 2 teams in the CONCACAF Quarterfinals and all 14 member of the team that played Mexico last night are currently playing in, or have played in, MLS.
 
2013-03-27 12:42:48 PM  

seumasokelly: rickythepenguin: Rwa2play: If the biggest stars in the game came to play here the attendances would skyrocket; interest in the MLS would grow exponentially.

washed up Thierry Henry, over the hill Beckham, old ass Roy Keane......no one cares.  i agree that if the marquee talent came here it would generate interest but on what possible basis do you believe Messi / Rooney / van Persie / GARETH MOTHERfarkING BALE would come to, you know, Columbus Crew, FC Dallas, Salt Lake?

You're basically arguing, "basketball in Turkey would explode if Kevin Durant / Blake Griffin / Chris Paul would play there!"

It's moving in the right direction, though. Sounders FC just signed Obafemi Martins, a 28 y/o striker whom his team did not want to part ways with, from Levante in La Liga. So far as I know, he's the first player in the prime of his career to choose to come to MLS from a respected european league/team. Levante was in the midst of Europa League play and sits mid-table in La Liga and he was their leading scorer.

Progress is slow, but it's happening. MLS has 2 teams in the CONCACAF Quarterfinals and all 14 member of the team that played Mexico last night are currently playing in, or have played in, MLS.


This; I honestly thought that MLS wouldn't last long enough to really get a decent foothold.
 
2013-03-27 12:43:04 PM  
USA defeats Mexico 0-0

Not bad work, if you can get it.
 
2013-03-27 12:45:04 PM  

rickythepenguin: but on what possible basis do you believe Messi / Rooney / van Persie / GARETH MOTHERfarkING BALE would come to, you know, Columbus Crew, FC Dallas, Salt Lake?


Truthfully, they wouldn't have to. The MLS, while admittedly I still only follow it casually, has gotten demonstrably better because the overall talent pool is increasing. Just making marginal increases in scouting and player development and siphoning a few "average" players from bigger leagues overseas who weren't getting much playing time otherwise makes a better and more consistent product on the field.
 
2013-03-27 12:48:03 PM  

Killer Cars: rickythepenguin: but on what possible basis do you believe Messi / Rooney / van Persie / GARETH MOTHERfarkING BALE would come to, you know, Columbus Crew, FC Dallas, Salt Lake?

Truthfully, they wouldn't have to. The MLS, while admittedly I still only follow it casually, has gotten demonstrably better because the overall talent pool is increasing. Just making marginal increases in scouting and player development and siphoning a few "average" players from bigger leagues overseas who weren't getting much playing time otherwise makes a better and more consistent product on the field.


Not to mention, it's the growing period that all leagues have to go through in a global market like soccer has. It goes against our 'murican psyche to accept being 2nd or 3rd or 40th best at something, but with so many well-established leagues with 100 years of history under their belts, our progress is going to have to be slow and steady if it's to be sustained.
 
2013-03-27 12:48:56 PM  

Hang On Voltaire: That was the biggest ass kicking by an American in Mexico since Winfield Scott




fiftieswesterns.files.wordpress.com

RANDOLPH SCOTT?


\takes hat off
 
2013-03-27 12:53:03 PM  
Rwa2play: Uh, you're talking about a country where they sold out stadia when Pele played for the Cosmos and for the World Cup in 1994 (above and beyond everyone's expectations).

It wouldn't happen overnight, I expected that.  You need a charismatic player to be the symbol of the National Team and/or (in a repeat of the NASL) top players coming here to play.  The MLS is doing okay for all intents and purposes; but if major stars (like your Messis, et. al.) ever came over in the primes of their careers, you could see that shift happening.


Football in the US is growing just fine - as long as the financials continue to support MLS growing from the groundroots, the sport will continue to grow in the US.  It's still a few years away from being able to offer competitive contracts to the better players in the world, but it continues to increase in attendance and financial revenues - what we NEED to see is some homegrown stars start to emerge.  I expected Landon Donovan and Dempsey and others to be the forefront of a wave of potential world class players, but I'm guessing that's slowly coming up as well.  The addition of folks like David Beckham from overseas is somewhat useful but only in showing that there is a growing market to which European players will be increasingly attracted as the money starts to come in line - along with better marketing capabilities. Messi won't be interested in that because he's already at the top.  Folks that aren't likely to nudge out the Messi's and Ronaldo's for the lion's share of endorsements might find US attractive as well.  It's a business.
 
2013-03-27 12:55:31 PM  

seumasokelly: Not to mention, it's the growing period that all leagues have to go through in a global market like soccer has. It goes against our 'murican psyche to accept being 2nd or 3rd or 40th best at something, but with so many well-established leagues with 100 years of history under their belts, our progress is going to have to be slow and steady if it's to be sustained.


Agreed. I guess my other point is that I don't think the MLS has to really "compete" with the major professional sports domestically in terms of overall viewership and whatever financial figures someone can come up with. There's plenty of very good "soccer countries" that have relatively sh*t domestic leagues in terms of both quality and overall financials. It seems like some people believe the success of the MLS will have a direct impact on US soccer overall; it will certainly have some effect, but it's not the end all, be all.
 
2013-03-27 12:56:00 PM  

ScouserDuck: Wasn't there also a horrid beating at a baseball game...giants fans pummeling a dodger fan..or something like that?


It was the other way around.
 
2013-03-27 01:01:47 PM  
I watched a documentary on the Cosmos yesterday before the match because I was in a soccer mood. What amazes me is that there was absolutely no soccer in the US basically between 1950 and the start of the NASL. No youth soccer to build domestic players, nothing. So when the NASL started all the domestic players were crap because there was no development system. So youth soccer got big in the late 70s and 80s and the US was finally growing kids in the game.

The had a picture from before a Cosmos game of a youth soccer team holding up the banner like you usually see, and on that team ended up being a player that would play for the US in the World Cup when they made it for the first time since 1950.

We havent had a long time to build development systems. At 30 years we have had the youth system and produced 3 generations of players. We are finally getting to the stage where Americans who grew up playing soccer and being successful at it are having kids that can go through the academies and who can turn into great players. These other countries have had development leagues for a hundred years or more. We are doing just fine for being a newcomer to the world soccer stage.

Now that the MLS is boosting their academies we are starting to see much more home grown talent playing for MLS clubs. There Crew signed a handful of homegrown players in the last 2 years and they are already having a big impact. That will only get better. Currently the MLS has representatives from teams spending 2 years in France living there and studying their development system to bring that back to the US.
 
2013-03-27 01:03:12 PM  

seumasokelly: Sounders FC just signed Obafemi Martins, a 28 y/o striker whom his team did not want to part ways with, from Levante in La Liga. So far as I know, he's the first player in the prime of his career to choose to come to MLS from a respected european league/team. Levante was in the midst of Europa League play and sits mid-table in La Liga and he was their leading scorer.



huh, i didn't know that.
 
909
2013-03-27 01:05:29 PM  
Back in '02 I was working in the beautiful city of Vernon CA and stopped at McDonalds for a healthy meal. 1/2 way into my fries I look up and about 40 plus rabid dark skinned people dressed in green are whooping it up and hollering. Then some 5'2" swarthy looking guy comes out of some room somewhere and sets up a tv. My fellow diners started chanting "Mejico, Mejico, Mejico" as the technician fiddled with some knobs and controls and got the USA vs.Mexico soccer match on. I thought about leaving but decided that I had already invested $6 so I might as well stay. Place got a little rowdy, but USA managed to win 2 or 3 to nill, if I recall correctly. I remember when I went up for my diet coke refill the lady at the counter - who had been booing loudly practically every time USA touched the ball -  glared at me, and muttered some prime Spanish words under her breath. No doubt congratulatory.
 
2013-03-27 01:08:45 PM  

Bill the unknowing: Football in the US is growing just fine - as long as the financials continue to support MLS growing from the groundroots, the sport will continue to grow in the US. It's still a few years away from being able to offer competitive contracts to the better players in the world, but it continues to increase in attendance and financial revenues - what we NEED to see is some homegrown stars start to emerge. I expected Landon Donovan and Dempsey and others to be the forefront of a wave of potential world class players, but I'm guessing that's slowly coming up as well. The addition of folks like David Beckham from overseas is somewhat useful but only in showing that there is a growing market to which European players will be increasingly attracted as the money starts to come in line - along with better marketing capabilities. Messi won't be interested in that because he's already at the top. Folks that aren't likely to nudge out the Messi's and Ronaldo's for the lion's share of endorsements might find US attractive as well. It's a business.


What I'm getting from the international community is that MLS is seen as kind of this whole separate entity from the rest of the leagues, in a sense. We're not the top league and never will be, but the combination of disdain for ties, leaguewide parity (more than four teams capable of winning? The hell you say!) and rough physical play as a matter of course seems to have positioned us as kind of soccer's mosh pit. 'Hey, man, let's ditch this scene and I'll show you where the REAL party is.'

Am I getting that about right?
 
2013-03-27 01:12:21 PM  

LucklessWonder: Begoggle: soccer is gay

/am I trolling right

All sports are inherently homo-erotic with the exception of nude Greco-Roman wrestling.

/Am I?


Lemme guess greco-roman wrestling is only gay if you make eye contact.
 
2013-03-27 01:19:05 PM  

rickythepenguin: seumasokelly: Sounders FC just signed Obafemi Martins, a 28 y/o striker whom his team did not want to part ways with, from Levante in La Liga. So far as I know, he's the first player in the prime of his career to choose to come to MLS from a respected european league/team. Levante was in the midst of Europa League play and sits mid-table in La Liga and he was their leading scorer.


huh, i didn't know that.


It's not a big headliner like signing a well-known star would be, but it may signal that international players are beginning to view MLS in a more legitimate light. I'd suspect that for awhile these types of signings will be rare and probably only be pulled off by the bigger teams and those with more rabid fanbases (Seattle, LA, NY, Portland). I'd doubt many guys are going to be clamoring to join Columbus, even if they are in a frame of mind to entertain offers from MLS.
 
2013-03-27 01:20:57 PM  

Swoop1809: I watched a documentary on the Cosmos yesterday before the match because I was in a soccer mood. What amazes me is that there was absolutely no soccer in the US basically between 1950 and the start of the NASL. No youth soccer to build domestic players, nothing. So when the NASL started all the domestic players were crap because there was no development system. So youth soccer got big in the late 70s and 80s and the US was finally growing kids in the game.

The had a picture from before a Cosmos game of a youth soccer team holding up the banner like you usually see, and on that team ended up being a player that would play for the US in the World Cup when they made it for the first time since 1950.

We havent had a long time to build development systems. At 30 years we have had the youth system and produced 3 generations of players. We are finally getting to the stage where Americans who grew up playing soccer and being successful at it are having kids that can go through the academies and who can turn into great players. These other countries have had development leagues for a hundred years or more. We are doing just fine for being a newcomer to the world soccer stage.

Now that the MLS is boosting their academies we are starting to see much more home grown talent playing for MLS clubs. There Crew signed a handful of homegrown players in the last 2 years and they are already having a big impact. That will only get better. Currently the MLS has representatives from teams spending 2 years in France living there and studying their development system to bring that back to the US.


One of the bigger obstacles to US player development is the US collegiate system (which is better for the players that don't make the big time i.e. 99% of them) vs the European academy system (which trains younger players at the expense of a university education).

Whereas a good player in Europe will sign on to the schoolboy teams for a big club at the age of 12 - possibly younger -  in the US the path to professional sports means playing high school, then collegiate level. Far better if you are a good player that realistically will never play in the world cup but a long way from the Ajax academy where players start at the age of 7 or 8.
 
2013-03-27 01:22:59 PM  

fo_sho!: Far better if you are a good player that realistically will never play in the world cup but a long way from the Ajax academy where players start at the age of 7 or 8.


Barcelona starts you off at 6.
 
2013-03-27 01:23:05 PM  

Swoop1809: I watched a documentary on the Cosmos yesterday before the match because I was in a soccer mood. What amazes me is that there was absolutely no soccer in the US basically between 1950 and the start of the NASL. No youth soccer to build domestic players, nothing. So when the NASL started all the domestic players were crap because there was no development system. So youth soccer got big in the late 70s and 80s and the US was finally growing kids in the game.

The had a picture from before a Cosmos game of a youth soccer team holding up the banner like you usually see, and on that team ended up being a player that would play for the US in the World Cup when they made it for the first time since 1950.

We havent had a long time to build development systems. At 30 years we have had the youth system and produced 3 generations of players. We are finally getting to the stage where Americans who grew up playing soccer and being successful at it are having kids that can go through the academies and who can turn into great players. These other countries have had development leagues for a hundred years or more. We are doing just fine for being a newcomer to the world soccer stage.

Now that the MLS is boosting their academies we are starting to see much more home grown talent playing for MLS clubs. There Crew signed a handful of homegrown players in the last 2 years and they are already having a big impact. That will only get better. Currently the MLS has representatives from teams spending 2 years in France living there and studying their development system to bring that back to the US.


I have to go back and rewatch, but if memory serves it was the networks that killed soccer here in the US in favor of promoting the domestic American Football as it was truly American.

/Great flick!
 
2013-03-27 01:29:20 PM  

Gosling: Barcelona starts you off at 6.



please tell me they call them "Younglings" and speak of The One who will restore balance to La Liga.  His goalichlorian count is higher than even Master Lionel.
 
2013-03-27 01:31:09 PM  

Gosling: fo_sho!: Far better if you are a good player that realistically will never play in the world cup but a long way from the Ajax academy where players start at the age of 7 or 8.

Barcelona starts you off at 6.


And you live there and go to school there. In the US, MLS teams have "academies" but they're more like infrequent camps and some games vs. other team's "academies". Barcelona has built a powerhouse from the ground up in all sports.
 
2013-03-27 01:31:52 PM  

rickythepenguin: Gosling: Barcelona starts you off at 6.


please tell me they call them "Younglings" and speak of The One who will restore balance to La Liga.  His goalichlorian count is higher than even Master Lionel.


Barcelona has no interest in restoring balance to La Liga.
 
2013-03-27 01:39:31 PM  

Oldiron_79: LucklessWonder: Begoggle: soccer is gay

/am I trolling right

All sports are inherently homo-erotic with the exception of nude Greco-Roman wrestling.

/Am I?

Lemme guess greco-roman wrestling is only gay if you make eye contact.


No, it's only gay if balls are touching.
 
2013-03-27 01:40:36 PM  

seumasokelly: rickythepenguin: Gosling: Barcelona starts you off at 6.


please tell me they call them "Younglings" and speak of The One who will restore balance to La Liga.  His goalichlorian count is higher than even Master Lionel.

Barcelona has no interest in restoring balance to La Liga.


Always two, there are. But which is the master and which is the apprentice?
 
2013-03-27 01:43:14 PM  

seumasokelly: rickythepenguin: seumasokelly: Sounders FC just signed Obafemi Martins, a 28 y/o striker whom his team did not want to part ways with, from Levante in La Liga. So far as I know, he's the first player in the prime of his career to choose to come to MLS from a respected european league/team. Levante was in the midst of Europa League play and sits mid-table in La Liga and he was their leading scorer.


huh, i didn't know that.

It's not a big headliner like signing a well-known star would be, but it may signal that international players are beginning to view MLS in a more legitimate light. I'd suspect that for awhile these types of signings will be rare and probably only be pulled off by the bigger teams and those with more rabid fanbases (Seattle, LA, NY, Portland). I'd doubt many guys are going to be clamoring to join Columbus, even if they are in a frame of mind to entertain offers from MLS.


or he wanted to get out of spain before the euro collapses...
 
2013-03-27 01:57:38 PM  

seumasokelly: rickythepenguin: seumasokelly: Sounders FC just signed Obafemi Martins, a 28 y/o striker whom his team did not want to part ways with, from Levante in La Liga. So far as I know, he's the first player in the prime of his career to choose to come to MLS from a respected european league/team. Levante was in the midst of Europa League play and sits mid-table in La Liga and he was their leading scorer.


huh, i didn't know that.

It's not a big headliner like signing a well-known star would be, but it may signal that international players are beginning to view MLS in a more legitimate light. I'd suspect that for awhile these types of signings will be rare and probably only be pulled off by the bigger teams and those with more rabid fanbases (Seattle, LA, NY, Portland). I'd doubt many guys are going to be clamoring to join Columbus, even if they are in a frame of mind to entertain offers from MLS.


Very true, but at very least it's a step in the right direction.  No one is expecting the MLS to compete with teams that are regularly in the Champions League but you have to start somewhere.  Some of those teams you mentioned are attractive to players in SA or lower European leagues because of stability.  Something that couldn't be said 10yrs ago.  This year the Timbers (Portland) picked up a very good player from Argentina who's been on their national team and in the their top league - Diego Valeri.  He picked the MLS for the fact it's a legit paycheck that is actually paid and the safety of the US (along with the support he'll see in Portland).  Many players in SA who have had to deal with threats and inconsistent pay etc. will start to migrate to the US, and I think that's a good thing.
 
2013-03-27 02:10:52 PM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: seumasokelly: rickythepenguin: seumasokelly: Sounders FC just signed Obafemi Martins, a 28 y/o striker whom his team did not want to part ways with, from Levante in La Liga. So far as I know, he's the first player in the prime of his career to choose to come to MLS from a respected european league/team. Levante was in the midst of Europa League play and sits mid-table in La Liga and he was their leading scorer.


huh, i didn't know that.

It's not a big headliner like signing a well-known star would be, but it may signal that international players are beginning to view MLS in a more legitimate light. I'd suspect that for awhile these types of signings will be rare and probably only be pulled off by the bigger teams and those with more rabid fanbases (Seattle, LA, NY, Portland). I'd doubt many guys are going to be clamoring to join Columbus, even if they are in a frame of mind to entertain offers from MLS.

Very true, but at very least it's a step in the right direction.  No one is expecting the MLS to compete with teams that are regularly in the Champions League but you have to start somewhere.  Some of those teams you mentioned are attractive to players in SA or lower European leagues because of stability.  Something that couldn't be said 10yrs ago.  This year the Timbers (Portland) picked up a very good player from Argentina who's been on their national team and in the their top league - Diego Valeri.  He picked the MLS for the fact it's a legit paycheck that is actually paid and the safety of the US (along with the support he'll see in Portland).  Many players in SA who have had to deal with threats and inconsistent pay etc. will start to migrate to the US, and I think that's a good thing.


If only their national teams would consider MLS a legit league. The South American guys come up here for the paycheck/experience/stability and then are dropped from consideration for national team duties because they play in a "lesser" league. Fredy Montero went back to Colombia this season to get back on the national team radar despite his success up here (also because it made financial sense for the Sounders). Sounders GK Michael Gspurning is one of the top 2 GKs in the league right now and hasn't even had his phone ring for the Austrian national team (farking Austria, really) because they consider MLS to be below ALL european leagues. Any success is immediately discounted because of the MLS monicker.

The central american and carribean countries are in love with the MLS, but South America lags behind - even in countries that haven't sniffed a WC berth in years.

Then again, signings like Valeri (who scares the crap out of me) and Martins will eventually elevate the image of the league. Even to those who don't want to acknowledge its legitimacy. Hell, the homegrown guys are really starting to make some noise too (Besler and Gonzalez last night, for a more recent example). EPL is waking up to the idea that Americans can play more than just GK at the elite level and MLS is the reason for guys like Cameron, Shea, John, etc. getting looks from english squads.
 
2013-03-27 02:11:40 PM  
Well I can't see how this is not going to make soccer more palatable and acceptable to Americans.
 
2013-03-27 02:13:42 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-27 02:19:08 PM  

Hang On Voltaire: TheShavingofOccam123: MBooda: Hang On Voltaire: That was the biggest ass kicking by an American in Mexico since Winfield Scott

El Bozo?
[2.bp.blogspot.com image 238x320]

"Hoy Don Francisco tiene 100 años. Entre sus aficiones están lanzando orina y fes en América futbolistas. Pasa sus días jugando con las putas rojas y sus tetas musicales."

Feliz Compleanos Don Francisco


No, you must be Don Francisco's sister.
 
2013-03-27 02:20:18 PM  
Farkin brilliant result. I put my chalice under the weepy eyes of el Tri fans to capture their tears. Ambrosia. Their wails are Siren songs. Not giving up a penalty in Azteca was the absinthe chaser. I call it a historical make up call. We were due some justice.
Fark Mexico.
Fark'em raw.
USA USA USA!
/not a hint of irony
 
2013-03-27 02:24:16 PM  
Being thrilled about a tie...fark this pussified nation.
 
2013-03-27 02:28:16 PM  

PowerSlacker: Being thrilled about a tie...fark this pussified nation.


Your handle is quite ironic for your statement.

/go play (how about just walk the street) in Mexico City and come out with a draw you nincompoop.
 
2013-03-27 02:29:03 PM  

PowerSlacker: Being thrilled about a tie...fark this pussified nation.


You could always leave.
 
2013-03-27 02:29:05 PM  

PowerSlacker: Being thrilled about a tie...fark this pussified nation.


OK tough guy
/pats on head
//sends on way with ice cream cone
 
2013-03-27 02:29:33 PM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: In CONCACAF, the US should seriously schedule every game for someplace with snow in the forecast. Denver was perfect for a warm-weather, sea-level opponent like Costa Rica. Like the altitude at Azteca, it's our strongest homefield advantage. We should only ever play Mexico in Seattle or Portland, or failing that, Phoenix. But only after arresting the families of Mexico's players for being illegals.

As for being pleased, only 8 countries have ever won at Azteca (the US is one of them), and only Brazil and Peru have done it twice.

We're only two or three hundred feet above sea level in Portland. I mean, it does rain a ton but the temperature is pretty temperate. Not exactly hostile territory for a team from El Carib up here.


Team Mexico typically plays in Mexico City, a high-altitude, warm-weather, arid-climate.

Portland is the opposite of that. It's a sea level, cold, wet climate. It's everything the non-EPL Mexican players aren't used to.

Sort of how we played Costa Rica (sea-level, humid, hot) in Denver in a blizzard (high-altitude, arid, frigid). The US has a fabulous amount of geographic diversity. It's about time we exploit that to our own advantage. Our first home win over Mexico came when we finally stopped playing in LA and took Mexico to Fort Lauderdale, where the locals hate Mexicans. The threat of being murdered by the locals tends to make a team play below their talent. We have to play in the shiathole that is Mexico City and Guatemala City; it's only fair. We should bring them to Detroit.
 
2013-03-27 02:31:10 PM  

seumasokelly: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: seumasokelly: rickythepenguin: seumasokelly: Sounders FC just signed Obafemi Martins, a 28 y/o striker whom his team did not want to part ways with, from Levante in La Liga. So far as I know, he's the first player in the prime of his career to choose to come to MLS from a respected european league/team. Levante was in the midst of Europa League play and sits mid-table in La Liga and he was their leading scorer.


huh, i didn't know that.

It's not a big headliner like signing a well-known star would be, but it may signal that international players are beginning to view MLS in a more legitimate light. I'd suspect that for awhile these types of signings will be rare and probably only be pulled off by the bigger teams and those with more rabid fanbases (Seattle, LA, NY, Portland). I'd doubt many guys are going to be clamoring to join Columbus, even if they are in a frame of mind to entertain offers from MLS.

Very true, but at very least it's a step in the right direction.  No one is expecting the MLS to compete with teams that are regularly in the Champions League but you have to start somewhere.  Some of those teams you mentioned are attractive to players in SA or lower European leagues because of stability.  Something that couldn't be said 10yrs ago.  This year the Timbers (Portland) picked up a very good player from Argentina who's been on their national team and in the their top league - Diego Valeri.  He picked the MLS for the fact it's a legit paycheck that is actually paid and the safety of the US (along with the support he'll see in Portland).  Many players in SA who have had to deal with threats and inconsistent pay etc. will start to migrate to the US, and I think that's a good thing.

If only their national teams would consider MLS a legit league. The South American guys come up here for the paycheck/experience/stability and then are dropped from consideration for national team duties because they play in a "lesser" league. Fredy Montero went back to Colombia this season to get back on the national team radar despite his success up here (also because it made financial sense for the Sounders). Sounders GK Michael Gspurning is one of the top 2 GKs in the league right now and hasn't even had his phone ring for the Austrian national team (farking Austria, really) because they consider MLS to be below ALL european leagues. Any success is immediately discounted because of the MLS monicker.

The central american and carribean countries are in love with the MLS, but South America lags behind - even in countries that haven't sniffed a WC berth in years.

Then again, signings like Valeri (who scares the crap out of me) and Martins will eventually elevate the image of the league. Even to those who don't want to acknowledge its legitimacy. Hell, the homegrown guys are really starting to make some noise too (Besler and Gonzalez last night, for a more recent example). EPL is waking up to the idea that Americans can play more than just GK at the elite level and MLS is the reason for guys like Cameron, Shea, John, etc. getting looks from english squads.


Yeah, the biggest loss because of national team consideration if Calos Valdes in Philadlephia. Peckerman wanted him to play in a South American league to continue to be eligible for national team selection, so he is stuck on a year-long loan in the Columbian first division, which is hardly a step up from MLS. As much I'd love for a guy who captained an MLS team to play for a team like Colombia in the world cup, losing him really sucked for the Union's back line.

Strangely enough teams like Columbus have done pretty well in the foreign signing department. Guys like Guillermo Barros Schelotto and Federico Higuaín will never draw a crowd but they're guys you can build a team around, and both were pretty much brought to Columbus with the pitch of "Columbus is a calm, slightly boring city that's a perfect place to raise your family."
 
2013-03-27 02:31:31 PM  
Considering how all the signage in my town is in Spanish, I'm thinking Mexico won a long time ago.
 
2013-03-27 02:31:53 PM  

Gosling: Basically, the United States ordering the rules of soccer be changed is like the Netherlands ordering that the rules of baseball be changed.


Europe dictated the rules of basketball (internationally), even though they weren't any damn good at the game. That only recently changed -- and primarily because it hurt Euro players trying to adapt to NBA rules.
 
2013-03-27 02:33:09 PM  

LucklessWonder: Oldiron_79: LucklessWonder: Begoggle: soccer is gay

/am I trolling right

All sports are inherently homo-erotic with the exception of nude Greco-Roman wrestling.

/Am I?

Lemme guess greco-roman wrestling is only gay if you make eye contact.

No, it's only gay if balls are touching.


Or if you finish.
 
2013-03-27 02:39:22 PM  

nwave: [i.imgur.com image 850x750]


thanks for that
 
2013-03-27 02:40:01 PM  
Soccer is meant to be played, not watched.  There is a reason why most every stadium filled with soccer fans is drunk off their ass, fighting, or both.
 
2013-03-27 02:44:19 PM  

literaldeluxe: Nana's Vibrator: low scoring of hockey

Both the NHL and NCAA have changed a number of hockey rules over the last several years with the specific intentions of increasing scoring and reducing the number of ties, in order to maintain or increase their audiences. Soccer may need similar changes to catch on in the US.


cdn3.mocksession.com
 
2013-03-27 02:55:37 PM  

hdhale: Soccer is meant to be played, not watched.  There is a reason why most every stadium filled with soccer fans is drunk off their ass, fighting, or both.


And yet whatever sport you like to watch will never be watched by even half as many people as soccer, while soccer will go on being the most watched spectator sport that ever existed.

Funny how things worked out huh?
 
2013-03-27 02:56:41 PM  

Raging Whore Moans: literaldeluxe: Nana's Vibrator: low scoring of hockey

Both the NHL and NCAA have changed a number of hockey rules over the last several years with the specific intentions of increasing scoring and reducing the number of ties, in order to maintain or increase their audiences. Soccer may need similar changes to catch on in the US.

[cdn3.mocksession.com image 850x478]


SEATTLE! SOUNDERS!


/suck it Timbers
//you too Whitecaps
 
2013-03-27 02:56:44 PM  

Mirrorz: Considering how all the signage in my town is in Spanish, I'm thinking Mexico won a long time ago.


Considering how some of the defenders of the shrine to your state's liberty were named things like Jaun Seguin, Antonio Cruz y Arocha, Jose Gregorio Esparza, and Damacio Jimenez, you can deal with a few bilingual signs.

This place WAS Mexico. The border just moved south.
 
2013-03-27 02:57:10 PM  
rickythepenguin:

/ok, change the game to add a ref in each half of the field.  the ball can go from penalty box to penalty box  in 5 seconds.  the ref just cannot see all the stuff going on and a second pair of eyes on the field (the lineman response is unsatisfactory) would help.  but yeah, that willl never happen either so WFC.

3 or 4 refs in high level games, serious repercussions for flopping (not just a soccer problem) and an independent time keeper are my top three wants from soccer.

/And a change to the handball rule when behind the goal keeper to award more than the penalty shot
 
2013-03-27 02:57:45 PM  

Raging Whore Moans: literaldeluxe: Nana's Vibrator: low scoring of hockey

Both the NHL and NCAA have changed a number of hockey rules over the last several years with the specific intentions of increasing scoring and reducing the number of ties, in order to maintain or increase their audiences. Soccer may need similar changes to catch on in the US.

[cdn3.mocksession.com image 850x478]


I say this a Cascadia resident - Portland and Seattle are not the US, they are a region.  I think the sentiment still stands.
 
2013-03-27 02:58:15 PM  
Juan, not Jaun. Stupid fingers.
 
2013-03-27 03:02:30 PM  
If you look at this Hex table, MLS has helped everyone other than Mexico and the US more than anything.
 
2013-03-27 03:07:24 PM  
Lost Thought 00:

Soccer fans in general are the worst sports fans in the world.

That's true. They are also the best sports fans in the world, the tallest sports fans in the world, the shortest sports fans in the world, the [insert anything here] sports fans in the world. They outnumber fans of other sports several times over, you can find the most extreme of anything in soccer.
 
rka
2013-03-27 03:08:55 PM  

nwave: hdhale: Soccer is meant to be played, not watched.  There is a reason why most every stadium filled with soccer fans is drunk off their ass, fighting, or both.

And yet whatever sport you like to watch will never be watched by even half as many people as soccer, while soccer will go on being the most watched spectator sport that ever existed.

Funny how things worked out huh?


Something, something Spice Girls.
 
2013-03-27 03:10:49 PM  

MugzyBrown: We'll never be a real soccer team until we're no longer pleased by these sorts of games.

Wow, we were lucky that the Mexicans didn't pot 2, 3 easy goals, and we never had the ball for more than 5 seconds at a time.  USA USA!


You're joking, right?  Nobody goes into Azteca and wins, period.  So does that mean there aren't any real soccer teams?
 
2013-03-27 03:14:27 PM  

Raging Whore Moans: literaldeluxe: Nana's Vibrator: low scoring of hockey

Both the NHL and NCAA have changed a number of hockey rules over the last several years with the specific intentions of increasing scoring and reducing the number of ties, in order to maintain or increase their audiences. Soccer may need similar changes to catch on in the US.

[cdn3.mocksession.com image 850x478]


Except soccer already has the largest audience of any sport in the world, so why would they want to change the rules?
 
2013-03-27 03:14:39 PM  

Lee's_Austin: I have to go back and rewatch, but if memory serves it was the networks that killed soccer here in the US in favor of promoting the domestic American Football as it was truly American.


In the US, American football promotes itself. There are 12 college football stadiums larger than the largest pro stadium.

Hell, there's only one stadium in the world larger than what U-M, PSU, OSU, Tennessee, Alabama, and Texas pull down 7-8 times per season.

The Big 10 puts more butts in seats than the EPL does.
 
2013-03-27 03:16:29 PM  

Gonz: Wicked Chinchilla: Why is that?
As much as our national teams have truly suffered in international competition the general rule is that our Goal Keepers are outstanding. Its a rather odd curiosity of US Soccer.

Because if you're an undersized small forward, your basketball skills translate very easily to the soccer pitch as a GK.

That's my theory, anyway.


THIS.  Played juco ball - 2 guard, and took up soccer in my thirties.  Goalkeep is a natural fit.
 
2013-03-27 03:16:35 PM  
It would be nice if you could get this many people to beat off over trade relations or drug traffic issues between our countries.

But, soccer!

I'll be over here.
Under the tarp.
trying not to get splooged on.
 
2013-03-27 03:18:24 PM  

PowerSlacker: Being thrilled about a tie...fark this pussified nation.


3/10.  I'll give ya credit for some of the nibbles you got.
 
2013-03-27 03:24:34 PM  

FLMountainMan: THIS. Played juco ball - 2 guard, and took up soccer in my thirties. Goalkeep is a natural fit.


I played a lot of different sports as a kid (wasn't good at any, really), and played central and right mid as a soccer player during middle school/ early HS. The first time I ever played GK was in a rec league during college, and I was instantly more comfortable there than I had been at midfielder which I technically had plenty of experience in. I'm not saying I found it "easy", just, like you said, more...natural.
 
2013-03-27 03:31:20 PM  

This text is now purple: The Big 10 puts more butts in seats than the EPL does.


Per game it does but not over a season where the EPL has 19 home games and the Big 10 only 6 to 8.

The highest attendance in 2012, Ohio State with the benefit of a full 8 home games would have been in fifth place compared to full season attendance in the 2011-12 EPL.  The highest attendance with just 6 games, Michigan, would have been 9th in the EPL.  Minnesota was behind ALL of the EPL's in total season attendance.

http://www.worldfootball.net/zuschauer/eng-premier-league-2011-2012/ 1/
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2012/Internet/attendance/FBS_AVGATTENDANCE. pd f  (warning pdf)
 
2013-03-27 03:31:49 PM  

This text is now purple: Lee's_Austin: I have to go back and rewatch, but if memory serves it was the networks that killed soccer here in the US in favor of promoting the domestic American Football as it was truly American.

In the US, American football promotes itself. There are 12 college football stadiums larger than the largest pro stadium.

Hell, there's only one stadium in the world larger than what U-M, PSU, OSU, Tennessee, Alabama, and Texas pull down 7-8 times per season.

The Big 10 puts more butts in seats than the EPL does.


Because all of England is smaller than the state of AZ.. Imagine if Ohio had 100 college teams with 20 of them playing in NCAA div 1. If that was the case the shoe wouldn't be half the size it is now. As it stands, the entire state of Ohio supports 1 team... Of course they can put butts in the seats.
 
2013-03-27 03:36:38 PM  

This text is now purple: Lee's_Austin: I have to go back and rewatch, but if memory serves it was the networks that killed soccer here in the US in favor of promoting the domestic American Football as it was truly American.

In the US, American football promotes itself. There are 12 college football stadiums larger than the largest pro stadium.

Hell, there's only one stadium in the world larger than what U-M, PSU, OSU, Tennessee, Alabama, and Texas pull down 7-8 times per season.

The Big 10 puts more butts in seats than the EPL does.


Today, American Football absolutely doesn't need the help.  It is by far our number one sport.

I was only commenting on what the network that aired NASL games did in '77 when the sport's popularity was in steep decline and one of the reasons why.  Could be one of the reasons why the sport was, essentially, dead here until '94.  Really for no good reason other than it stood out to me when I watched the documentary.
 
2013-03-27 03:42:05 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Wait. That was an NBA game I was watching?


You should have been, Mavs/Clippers was much better to watch. I understand why this tie is meaningful, but I still hate the concept of being happy or excited about a scoreless tie. Nevertheless, good job USA.
 
2013-03-27 03:42:25 PM  

rickythepenguin: rickythepenguin: But the "wouldn't it be great if we had a 'face' of the US WC team?" argument didn't work for Landon Donovan, Alexi Lalas, Tony Meoli (or whateve rhis damn name was) and Dempsey isn't that charismatic

worth nothing that Mia Hamm and Brandi Chastain, in 2013, are still probably the "faces" of american soccer.  do you think anyone knows who Clint Dempsey is?  Jozy Altidore?  DaMarcus Beasley?


Beasley sucks.  he's a terrible example.
 
2013-03-27 03:44:13 PM  

ScouserDuck: As it stands, the entire state of Ohio supports 1 team.


Ohio has 8 FBS teams.
 
2013-03-27 03:45:15 PM  

Lee's_Austin: In the US, American football promotes itself. There are 12 college football stadiums larger than the largest pro stadium.

Hell, there's only one stadium in the world larger than what U-M, PSU, OSU, Tennessee, Alabama, and Texas pull down 7-8 times per season.

The Big 10 puts more butts in seats than the EPL does.

Today, American Football absolutely doesn't need the help. It is by far our number one sport.


My point was that American Football has never needed the help. It's been shockingly popular since the 1890s.
 
2013-03-27 03:46:21 PM  

ScouserDuck: This text is now purple: Lee's_Austin: I have to go back and rewatch, but if memory serves it was the networks that killed soccer here in the US in favor of promoting the domestic American Football as it was truly American.

In the US, American football promotes itself. There are 12 college football stadiums larger than the largest pro stadium.

Hell, there's only one stadium in the world larger than what U-M, PSU, OSU, Tennessee, Alabama, and Texas pull down 7-8 times per season.

The Big 10 puts more butts in seats than the EPL does.

Because all of England is smaller than the state of AZ.. Imagine if Ohio had 100 college teams with 20 of them playing in NCAA div 1. If that was the case the shoe wouldn't be half the size it is now. As it stands, the entire state of Ohio supports 1 team... Of course they can put butts in the seats.


I wonder what that toser would've argued about in the pre-Hillsborough days, when capacity was about who was playing that day.  IIRC a Merseyside derby would've easily packed 70,000+ into Goodison or Anfield.
 
2013-03-27 03:46:58 PM  

This text is now purple: ScouserDuck: As it stands, the entire state of Ohio supports 1 team.

Ohio has 8 FBS teams.


6 who play in the shiatty non auto bid MAC, and 1 that plays in the soon to be shiatty America 12 or whatever the hell it's going to be called.
 
rka
2013-03-27 03:47:29 PM  

Lee's_Austin: Could be one of the reasons why the sport was, essentially, dead here until '94.  Really for no good reason other than it stood out to me when I watched the documentary.


I think that is putting the cart before the horse.

A television network would air German skeet shooting if it repeatedly brought in viewers. "Buy American" really isn't in their DNA.

None of the big sports had great TV contracts back in the 70's. It was pre-cable. It was pre-ESPN. It was pre-Magic/Larry NBA time. The NFL had to cajole ABC, the network with the lowest ratings at the time, to take on Monday Night Football after the other stations turned Rozelle down. Baseball was the biggest. Hockey was hockey.

I don't think pro Soccer failed in the 70's because of TV. It failed because it was fundamentally a poorly run enterprise. Over-expansion, poor business practices, greedy owners looking to cash in quick.
 
2013-03-27 03:48:44 PM  

eagles95: Raging Whore Moans: literaldeluxe: Nana's Vibrator: low scoring of hockey

Both the NHL and NCAA have changed a number of hockey rules over the last several years with the specific intentions of increasing scoring and reducing the number of ties, in order to maintain or increase their audiences. Soccer may need similar changes to catch on in the US.

[cdn3.mocksession.com image 850x478]

SEATTLE! SOUNDERS!


/suck it Timbers
//you too Whitecaps


Heh, Seattle's the one place where I could truly call the atmosphere "intimidating" even by European standards.
 
2013-03-27 03:49:41 PM  

Rwa2play: rickythepenguin: Rwa2play: Uh, you're talking about a country where they sold out stadia when Pele played for the Cosmos and for the World Cup in 1994 (above and beyond everyone's expectations).

yeah, and NASL is just destorying it these days, isn't it?

Ya missed my point.  if you have players that become cross-cultural icons (like a LeBron), you will see the people come.  I still remember the articles coming out of the British tabloids declaring a World Cup in the US a disaster before the first ball was kicked; that were would be no interest whatsoever from the general public.

If the biggest stars in the game came to play here the attendances would skyrocket; interest in the MLS would grow exponentially.  That, however, would take a lot of cash on the owners end to do that; at this point they have no interest in MLS becoming NASL 2.0.


The other important part is that there are already sports that are huge here.  It's not like people are milling around waiting for a sport to root for.  People are already diehard football, nascar, baseball, etc fans.  They can't be bothered watching other sports like that.  So soccer is growing, but slowly since the base of available players (choosing which sport they want to continue playing) is less than the big teams.  The other big problem is the people who claim that they 'don't get' soccer.  They haven't been immersed in it like they were with football and baseball growing up.  I've seen ex football players criticize soccer for years, then their kids start playing travel/ odp and such and it's amazing how much they want to talk.  They want me to explain what is happening with plays, come watch/train their kids.  It blows my mind how into it they get when they actually understand what is going on.
 
2013-03-27 03:54:55 PM  
Ties? We got them.
 
2013-03-27 03:55:03 PM  

rka: Lee's_Austin: Could be one of the reasons why the sport was, essentially, dead here until '94.  Really for no good reason other than it stood out to me when I watched the documentary.

I think that is putting the cart before the horse.

A television network would air German skeet shooting if it repeatedly brought in viewers. "Buy American" really isn't in their DNA.

None of the big sports had great TV contracts back in the 70's. It was pre-cable. It was pre-ESPN. It was pre-Magic/Larry NBA time. The NFL had to cajole ABC, the network with the lowest ratings at the time, to take on Monday Night Football after the other stations turned Rozelle down. Baseball was the biggest. Hockey was hockey.

I don't think pro Soccer failed in the 70's because of TV. It failed because it was fundamentally a poorly run enterprise. Over-expansion, poor business practices, greedy owners looking to cash in quick.


I guess I'm in the boat where it was all of this.  With the NASL dying due to what you said and the retirement of Pele, why would the network want to keep it when they can promote the domestic brand?  Makes business sense.  It was just really interesting to me, is all, how all of this really did kill the sport here until '94.
 
2013-03-27 03:57:58 PM  

The Southern Dandy: Raging Whore Moans: literaldeluxe: Nana's Vibrator: low scoring of hockey

Both the NHL and NCAA have changed a number of hockey rules over the last several years with the specific intentions of increasing scoring and reducing the number of ties, in order to maintain or increase their audiences. Soccer may need similar changes to catch on in the US.

[cdn3.mocksession.com image 850x478]

Except soccer already has the largest audience of any sport in the world, so why would they want to change the rules?


2011 Revenue for US sports
NFL: $11.0 billion
MLB: $7.0 billion
NBA: $4.3 billion
NHL: $3.3 billion
MLS: $0.3 billion
Source

If MLS caught up to hockey in the US, it would mean an additional $3 billion in revenue per year, 11 times the current amount. If team/league owners thought they could do that, they'd forget about any international standards in an instant.
 
2013-03-27 04:01:13 PM  

Oldiron_79: A game with a 0-0 tie... that sounds about as entertaining as watching paint dry.


It's soccer.  I don't think even removing the goalies would improve things much.
 
2013-03-27 04:02:23 PM  

literaldeluxe: The Southern Dandy: Raging Whore Moans: literaldeluxe: Nana's Vibrator: low scoring of hockey

Both the NHL and NCAA have changed a number of hockey rules over the last several years with the specific intentions of increasing scoring and reducing the number of ties, in order to maintain or increase their audiences. Soccer may need similar changes to catch on in the US.

[cdn3.mocksession.com image 850x478]

Except soccer already has the largest audience of any sport in the world, so why would they want to change the rules?

2011 Revenue for US sports
NFL: $11.0 billion
MLB: $7.0 billion
NBA: $4.3 billion
NHL: $3.3 billion
MLS: $0.3 billion
Source

If MLS caught up to hockey in the US, it would mean an additional $3 billion in revenue per year, 11 times the current amount. If team/league owners thought they could do that, they'd forget about any international standards in an instant.


If they ever got to NBA or MLB levels of revenue, you could see a serious race brewing bet. MLS and European clubs to sign the top stars in the game.
 
2013-03-27 04:10:50 PM  

rka: I don't think pro Soccer failed in the 70's because of TV. It failed because it was fundamentally a poorly run enterprise. Over-expansion, poor business practices, greedy owners looking to cash in quick.


You're dead on. In fact, if you look at how the MLS is run, it's almost a direct result of the 1970's NASL. MLS would rather grow slowly but sustainably than have a huge growth spurt and then stagnate.

The downside is that it's going to probably take at least a decade before MLS is even mentioned anywhere near the same breath as a mid-level European league.

Then again, if you'd told someone in 1988 that, in 25 years, boxing would be virtually dead- heavyweight boxing especially- and "mixed martial arts" would be the combatative sport of choice...
 
2013-03-27 04:11:14 PM  

ScouserDuck: This text is now purple: Lee's_Austin: I have to go back and rewatch, but if memory serves it was the networks that killed soccer here in the US in favor of promoting the domestic American Football as it was truly American.

In the US, American football promotes itself. There are 12 college football stadiums larger than the largest pro stadium.

Hell, there's only one stadium in the world larger than what U-M, PSU, OSU, Tennessee, Alabama, and Texas pull down 7-8 times per season.

The Big 10 puts more butts in seats than the EPL does.

Because all of England is smaller than the state of AZ.. Imagine if Ohio had 100 college teams with 20 of them playing in NCAA div 1. If that was the case the shoe wouldn't be half the size it is now. As it stands, the entire state of Ohio supports 1 team... Of course they can put butts in the seats.


Arizona has 55M people?
 
2013-03-27 04:16:23 PM  

You're the jerk... jerk: ScouserDuck: This text is now purple: Lee's_Austin: I have to go back and rewatch, but if memory serves it was the networks that killed soccer here in the US in favor of promoting the domestic American Football as it was truly American.

In the US, American football promotes itself. There are 12 college football stadiums larger than the largest pro stadium.

Hell, there's only one stadium in the world larger than what U-M, PSU, OSU, Tennessee, Alabama, and Texas pull down 7-8 times per season.

The Big 10 puts more butts in seats than the EPL does.

Because all of England is smaller than the state of AZ.. Imagine if Ohio had 100 college teams with 20 of them playing in NCAA div 1. If that was the case the shoe wouldn't be half the size it is now. As it stands, the entire state of Ohio supports 1 team... Of course they can put butts in the seats.

Arizona has 55M people?


I think he meant land area.  Which is important when you are discussing how many people follow certain sports.
 
2013-03-27 04:19:20 PM  

Gonz: Then again, if you'd told someone in 1988 that, in 25 years, boxing would be virtually dead- heavyweight boxing especially- and "mixed martial arts" would be the combatative sport of choice...


speaking of boxing/mma i think it's possibility that the head trauma awakening will change where the youth talent flows to in this nation, which over a generation will change were the elite sport talent lies.  as a nation america might be approaching a tipping point where much of the population decides that their children will not be playing football.  the question is what do they play instead?

/and yes i'm aware of the studies of heading a soccer ball.
 
2013-03-27 04:24:34 PM  
Gosling: What I'm getting from the international community is that MLS is seen as kind of this whole separate entity from the rest of the leagues, in a sense. We're not the top league and never will be, but the combination of disdain for ties, leaguewide parity (more than four teams capable of winning? The hell you say!) and rough physical play as a matter of course seems to have positioned us as kind of soccer's mosh pit. 'Hey, man, let's ditch this scene and I'll show you where the REAL party is.'

Am I getting that about right?


I don't think there's any need to compare at this stage - if the international community want to be snobbish about it (and the international community may very well want to do that), that's their business - there's always likely to be a bit of resentment at the US because we've got a lot of other things going for us. And the MLS is still years away from producing the same level of soccer or the rabid fans that you see in European Soccer - but when I say years, I mean something on the order of 10 years, not 100. What I'm saying is that those folks who say the MLS needs to change to allow for more scoring to "catch on" are wrong.  It is right behind the Italian League in so far as attendance goes, 3rd in US Sports attendance per event (in front of the NBA) and 4th in revenues (right behind the NBA). It's growing and it will continue to do so. Yeah, an open system where money wins is popular in Europe, but that's always a matter of opinion; US sports leagues have ALWAYS championed parity (even if it doesn't always work out that way).  The US Men's team doesn't seem to be impacted by a disdain for ties in the domestic league - if they want to quibble about that, I see it as a minor issue.  But the league itself will continue to develop as more revenue is on the table - and it's growing steadily.  And talent will continue to chase the money - so it's a matter of time.  Other than that, time will tell.
 
2013-03-27 04:25:16 PM  

A Fark Handle: Gonz: Then again, if you'd told someone in 1988 that, in 25 years, boxing would be virtually dead- heavyweight boxing especially- and "mixed martial arts" would be the combatative sport of choice...

speaking of boxing/mma i think it's possibility that the head trauma awakening will change where the youth talent flows to in this nation, which over a generation will change were the elite sport talent lies.  as a nation america might be approaching a tipping point where much of the population decides that their children will not be playing football.  the question is what do they play instead?

/and yes i'm aware of the studies of heading a soccer ball.


Were those studies about the old leather-based soccer ball or the newer, lighter models?
 
2013-03-27 04:27:07 PM  
It's hard to watch the US Men's National Team play soccer. Those guys look like an Army intramural team, not professional athletes. If Reggie Bush played striker his whole life, LeBron played goalie, etc. the USA would be the favorite to win every year. They are not a good representation of American athletes.
 
2013-03-27 04:30:15 PM  

A Fark Handle: speaking of boxing/mma i think it's possibility that the head trauma awakening will change where the youth talent flows to in this nation


what you're missing is that it is fighting that's less popular, it's boxing that's less popular. MMA absorbed the people who got fed up with boxing's ridiculous corruption and fragmentation.
 
2013-03-27 04:31:25 PM  

A Fark Handle: Gonz: Then again, if you'd told someone in 1988 that, in 25 years, boxing would be virtually dead- heavyweight boxing especially- and "mixed martial arts" would be the combatative sport of choice...

speaking of boxing/mma i think it's possibility that the head trauma awakening will change where the youth talent flows to in this nation, which over a generation will change were the elite sport talent lies.  as a nation america might be approaching a tipping point where much of the population decides that their children will not be playing football.  the question is what do they play instead?

/and yes i'm aware of the studies of heading a soccer ball.


Well, I hope they take up soccer.

tylerdurden217: It's hard to watch the US Men's National Team play soccer. Those guys look like an Army intramural team, not professional athletes. If Reggie Bush played striker his whole life, LeBron played goalie, etc. the USA would be the favorite to win every year. They are not a good representation of American athletes.


Yep.  American soccer does not draw our best athletes.  Not even close.
 
2013-03-27 04:32:48 PM  

FLMountainMan: You're the jerk... jerk: ScouserDuck: This text is now purple: Lee's_Austin: I have to go back and rewatch, but if memory serves it was the networks that killed soccer here in the US in favor of promoting the domestic American Football as it was truly American.

In the US, American football promotes itself. There are 12 college football stadiums larger than the largest pro stadium.

Hell, there's only one stadium in the world larger than what U-M, PSU, OSU, Tennessee, Alabama, and Texas pull down 7-8 times per season.

The Big 10 puts more butts in seats than the EPL does.

Because all of England is smaller than the state of AZ.. Imagine if Ohio had 100 college teams with 20 of them playing in NCAA div 1. If that was the case the shoe wouldn't be half the size it is now. As it stands, the entire state of Ohio supports 1 team... Of course they can put butts in the seats.

Arizona has 55M people?

I think he meant land area.  Which is important when you are discussing how many people follow certain sports.


Good point. Explains why Alaska is big in professional sports.
 
2013-03-27 04:32:53 PM  

FLMountainMan: You're the jerk... jerk: ScouserDuck: This text is now purple: Lee's_Austin: I have to go back and rewatch, but if memory serves it was the networks that killed soccer here in the US in favor of promoting the domestic American Football as it was truly American.

In the US, American football promotes itself. There are 12 college football stadiums larger than the largest pro stadium.

Hell, there's only one stadium in the world larger than what U-M, PSU, OSU, Tennessee, Alabama, and Texas pull down 7-8 times per season.

The Big 10 puts more butts in seats than the EPL does.

Because all of England is smaller than the state of AZ.. Imagine if Ohio had 100 college teams with 20 of them playing in NCAA div 1. If that was the case the shoe wouldn't be half the size it is now. As it stands, the entire state of Ohio supports 1 team... Of course they can put butts in the seats.

Arizona has 55M people?

I think he meant land area.  Which is important when you are discussing how many people follow certain sports.


It does when sport allegiances are divided geographically. There are what? 4 EPL teams in the London city limits alone (Chelsea, arsenal, QPR, spurs....am I missing anyone?). If there was only 1-2 London teams, imagine how big their stadia could be. That doesn't even include the lower league teams.
 
2013-03-27 04:37:01 PM  

tylerdurden217: It's hard to watch the US Men's National Team play soccer. Those guys look like an Army intramural team, not professional athletes. If Reggie Bush played striker his whole life, LeBron played goalie, etc. the USA would be the favorite to win every year. They are not a good representation of American athletes.


No they wouldn't. See the earlier posts about just how young they play seriously (as in - signed to a major team) in other countries. The US does not develop players that way.

Also world class at one sport does not always mean world class at another. You think Messi would be successful in the NFL?
 
2013-03-27 04:43:27 PM  

This text is now purple: A Fark Handle: speaking of boxing/mma i think it's possibility that the head trauma awakening will change where the youth talent flows to in this nation

what you're missing is that it is fighting that's less popular, it's boxing that's less popular. MMA absorbed the people who got fed up with boxing's ridiculous corruption and fragmentation.


no, i would say that all fighting is less popular, at least i feel like it is.  sure some people switched over to mma, but even mma fights are not the mass sports culture events that they once were.  heavyweight title fights were much more like a super bowl.  yes plenty of people watched ufc xxx.  granted i haven't researched it, but it feels as if the percentage of the population watching any of the forms of sports fighting has dropped.  (anyone have numbers handy?)  and that's just who is watching, never mind the decline in youth participation in the various forms of sports fighting.  mom's don't put their babies in the ring.
 
2013-03-27 04:44:07 PM  

ScouserDuck: FLMountainMan: You're the jerk... jerk: ScouserDuck: This text is now purple: Lee's_Austin: I have to go back and rewatch, but if memory serves it was the networks that killed soccer here in the US in favor of promoting the domestic American Football as it was truly American.

In the US, American football promotes itself. There are 12 college football stadiums larger than the largest pro stadium.

Hell, there's only one stadium in the world larger than what U-M, PSU, OSU, Tennessee, Alabama, and Texas pull down 7-8 times per season.

The Big 10 puts more butts in seats than the EPL does.

Because all of England is smaller than the state of AZ.. Imagine if Ohio had 100 college teams with 20 of them playing in NCAA div 1. If that was the case the shoe wouldn't be half the size it is now. As it stands, the entire state of Ohio supports 1 team... Of course they can put butts in the seats.

Arizona has 55M people?

I think he meant land area.  Which is important when you are discussing how many people follow certain sports.

It does when sport allegiances are divided geographically. There are what? 4 EPL teams in the London city limits alone (Chelsea, arsenal, QPR, spurs....am I missing anyone?). If there was only 1-2 London teams, imagine how big their stadia could be. That doesn't even include the lower league teams.


New York has two professional baseball teams, two professional basketball teams, two professional football teams, two professional hockey teams, and one professional soccer team.
 
2013-03-27 04:44:40 PM  
F*ck Mexico
 
2013-03-27 04:46:48 PM  

born_yesterday: Forward holds it...HOLDS IT....HOLDS IT!!!!


t1.gstatic.com
 
2013-03-27 04:52:23 PM  

FLMountainMan: ScouserDuck: FLMountainMan: You're the jerk... jerk: ScouserDuck: This text is now purple: Lee's_Austin: I have to go back and rewatch, but if memory serves it was the networks that killed soccer here in the US in favor of promoting the domestic American Football as it was truly American.

In the US, American football promotes itself. There are 12 college football stadiums larger than the largest pro stadium.

Hell, there's only one stadium in the world larger than what U-M, PSU, OSU, Tennessee, Alabama, and Texas pull down 7-8 times per season.

The Big 10 puts more butts in seats than the EPL does.

Because all of England is smaller than the state of AZ.. Imagine if Ohio had 100 college teams with 20 of them playing in NCAA div 1. If that was the case the shoe wouldn't be half the size it is now. As it stands, the entire state of Ohio supports 1 team... Of course they can put butts in the seats.

Arizona has 55M people?

I think he meant land area.  Which is important when you are discussing how many people follow certain sports.

It does when sport allegiances are divided geographically. There are what? 4 EPL teams in the London city limits alone (Chelsea, arsenal, QPR, spurs....am I missing anyone?). If there was only 1-2 London teams, imagine how big their stadia could be. That doesn't even include the lower league teams.

New York has two professional baseball teams, two professional basketball teams, two professional football teams, two professional hockey teams, and one professional soccer team.


A) New York City has 0 football teams. They're both New Jersey teams. B) New York City had a larger population than London. If they actually had 4 teams in the city limits...their attendance per team would go down significantly which directly supports my original point that having significantly more teams in a smaller geographic area lowers attendance per team.
 
2013-03-27 04:59:14 PM  

FLMountainMan: ScouserDuck: FLMountainMan: You're the jerk... jerk: ScouserDuck: This text is now purple: Lee's_Austin: I have to go back and rewatch, but if memory serves it was the networks that killed soccer here in the US in favor of promoting the domestic American Football as it was truly American.

In the US, American football promotes itself. There are 12 college football stadiums larger than the largest pro stadium.

Hell, there's only one stadium in the world larger than what U-M, PSU, OSU, Tennessee, Alabama, and Texas pull down 7-8 times per season.

The Big 10 puts more butts in seats than the EPL does.

Because all of England is smaller than the state of AZ.. Imagine if Ohio had 100 college teams with 20 of them playing in NCAA div 1. If that was the case the shoe wouldn't be half the size it is now. As it stands, the entire state of Ohio supports 1 team... Of course they can put butts in the seats.

Arizona has 55M people?

I think he meant land area.  Which is important when you are discussing how many people follow certain sports.

It does when sport allegiances are divided geographically. There are what? 4 EPL teams in the London city limits alone (Chelsea, arsenal, QPR, spurs....am I missing anyone?). If there was only 1-2 London teams, imagine how big their stadia could be. That doesn't even include the lower league teams.

New York has two professional baseball teams, two professional basketball teams, two professional football teams, two professional hockey teams, and one professional soccer team.


There are 6 EPL teams in London, 3 Championship teams, 2 League one teams and 3 league 2 teams - 14 teams of professionals (big wage disparity though) and a lot more semi pro teams.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_in_London

There are 92 professional teams in England - although the lower league teams may well have semi pro players. Allegiances are a lot more local than NFL teams. The same goes for a lot of the big cities - in fact I think just about every city in the UK will have multiple professional soccer teams.
 
2013-03-27 05:09:04 PM  

fo_sho!: tylerdurden217: It's hard to watch the US Men's National Team play soccer. Those guys look like an Army intramural team, not professional athletes. If Reggie Bush played striker his whole life, LeBron played goalie, etc. the USA would be the favorite to win every year. They are not a good representation of American athletes.

No they wouldn't. See the earlier posts about just how young they play seriously (as in - signed to a major team) in other countries. The US does not develop players that way.

Also world class at one sport does not always mean world class at another. You think Messi would be successful in the NFL?


Right, and in my post, I said if Reggie Bush played his whole life. Look, I'm pretty certain that Bush could have started in middle school and still been better than nearly any soccer player you can think of. No, I don't think Messi would be good at American Football, but that's my point. You could build 10 teams of soccer players from American Football and Basketball that would dominate soccer on a world level. Imagine Adrian Peterson, Jamaal Charles, Chris Johnson, Reggie Bush, Robert Griffin III, Calvin Johnson, Wes Welker, Julio Jones, Mike Wallace, Dez Bryant... And that's just the NFL and I'm just getting started. Each and every one of these guys is a better athlete than any soccer player from any country that you can name. Now of course you would need to have played the sport and have some decent coaching, but the USA would dominate.

I watch the USA now and expect them to lose because they are not good athletes. Period. It's our 6th rate (or worse) against the best that everyone else has to put on the pitch... and we still compete pretty well.
 
rka
2013-03-27 05:09:57 PM  

ScouserDuck: B) New York City had a larger population than London.


Wikipedia puts their greater metro area populations at 18 million for NYC to 15 million for London. Their city populations are almost identical at 8 million.
 
2013-03-27 05:17:28 PM  

A Fark Handle: no, i would say that all fighting is less popular, at least i feel like it is.  sure some people switched over to mma, but even mma fights are not the mass sports culture events that they once were.


Honestly, as much as boxing is on life support, it seems the big fights are more talked about than the big MMA fights. Pacquiao/Marquez was still a huge, bigger than UFC's last major fight (was it Sonnen/Silva?).

/still a boxing fan despite all the problems it has outside of the actual sport itself.
 
2013-03-27 05:19:31 PM  

Wicked Chinchilla: StRalphTheLiar: bearcats1983: I'm really loving Guzan after these last few games. I was nervous with Howard being out due to injury, but Guzan is an awesome alternative.


GK is the only position I have never worried about for the US.

Why is that?
As much as our national teams have truly suffered in international competition the general rule is that our Goal Keepers are outstanding.  Its a rather odd curiosity of US Soccer.


It's not an odd curiosity at all.  Youth in most of the world that takes soccer seriously only ever grow up playing soccer.  American youth, at least when this generation and the Kasey Keller, Brad Friedel, Jurgen Sommer, Tony Meola generation were growing up played football, basketball, baseball, soccer, etc.  Those sports ALL prepare a person mentally and physically to play goalkeeper.

Tim Howard was an accomplished basketball player and could have played D1 college ball if he'd wanted to.
 
2013-03-27 05:20:38 PM  

hdhale: Soccer is meant to be played, not watched.  There is a reason why most every stadium filled with soccer fans is drunk off their ass, fighting, or both.


You can't get drunk off your ass at a Real Salt Lake game or at a men's or women's US national team game in Rio Tinto Stadium in Sandy, Utah.

I think that the 1% in the luxury boxes can get wine or hard liquor but the rest of us get 4% beer.

Not many fights, because most fans have 3 hours of church the next day and they don't want to spend time making bail after the game.
 
rka
2013-03-27 05:24:03 PM  

tylerdurden217: Each and every one of these guys is a better athlete than any soccer player from any country that you can name. Now of course you would need to have played the sport and have some decent coaching, but the USA would dominate.



And if none of them could creatively handle a soccer ball in traffic it wouldn't matter one bit. "Decent coaching"? You're going to need more than decent coaching,  world class athletes or not. It takes DECADES of coaching, generations even. From an early age. And it takes a massive feeder infrastructure to find, funnel and train those kids.

The US doesn't lag the world class soccer countries because we don't have the athletes playing, that's absurd. We lag because we don't have an entire infrastructure dedicated to finding, nurturing and training those kids that show an aptitude at the levels other countries do. Kid gets good in soccer here in the US he still has to run the gauntlet of his local HS coach (maybe someone's dad volunteering) and local rules on the amount of games played and time to practice, maybe he finds some traveling all-star team with a better coach, maybe not. And then where does he go? College? Again, rules on number of games played, practice time, GPAs to maintain. Plus, name me a soccer factory College powerhouse on par with an Alabama or Miami for football. By the time a US player gets to a MLS team his counterpart in Europe has already been playing pro, with pro level coaching, for years.

The closest thing the US has to the soccer factories elsewhere is maybe Junior Hockey, where you take a kid at 16 and send him to play a much tougher schedule than he'd ever see in high school, or even college. But in soccer terms as defined by the countries that are really serious, 16 is already too late to really start.
 
2013-03-27 05:26:05 PM  

A Fark Handle: no, i would say that all fighting is less popular, at least i feel like it is. sure some people switched over to mma, but even mma fights are not the mass sports culture events that they once were. heavyweight title fights were much more like a super bowl.


I completely agree. I'm probably dating myself here, but I remember when Mike Tyson was at the peak of his popularity. His fight against Michael Spinks was must-see TV. Everybody made plans to watch that. And I was living in a small town in Kentucky at the time. The PPV was like $50, so you'd have 10 people get together and chip in $5 each to cover it.

Boxing used to be HUGE. And when it died, it died really quick. And, yes, even if Mayweather and Pacquiao fight, I'm still calling boxing dead. It's a shell of its former self.
 
2013-03-27 05:28:16 PM  

tylerdurden217: fo_sho!: tylerdurden217: It's hard to watch the US Men's National Team play soccer. Those guys look like an Army intramural team, not professional athletes. If Reggie Bush played striker his whole life, LeBron played goalie, etc. the USA would be the favorite to win every year. They are not a good representation of American athletes.

No they wouldn't. See the earlier posts about just how young they play seriously (as in - signed to a major team) in other countries. The US does not develop players that way.

Also world class at one sport does not always mean world class at another. You think Messi would be successful in the NFL?

Right, and in my post, I said if Reggie Bush played his whole life. Look, I'm pretty certain that Bush could have started in middle school and still been better than nearly any soccer player you can think of. No, I don't think Messi would be good at American Football, but that's my point. You could build 10 teams of soccer players from American Football and Basketball that would dominate soccer on a world level. Imagine Adrian Peterson, Jamaal Charles, Chris Johnson, Reggie Bush, Robert Griffin III, Calvin Johnson, Wes Welker, Julio Jones, Mike Wallace, Dez Bryant... And that's just the NFL and I'm just getting started. Each and every one of these guys is a better athlete than any soccer player from any country that you can name. Now of course you would need to have played the sport and have some decent coaching, but the USA would dominate.

I watch the USA now and expect them to lose because they are not good athletes. Period. It's our 6th rate (or worse) against the best that everyone else has to put on the pitch... and we still compete pretty well.


BS. I've heard this argument time and again (mostly relating to rugby) and it doesn't hold water. Different sports require different skillsets, there is no one "master athlete" who could excel at any sport if they just focused on it - unless you're talking about power based track and field or some other similar subset. The ability to dribble a ball is a lot different than evading tackles with footwork. Breakaway speed is different to being able to curl a 30 yard shot into the top corner.

 There have been plenty of examples of professional sports stars who excelled despite being unathletic. The "intangibles" that will lead to a QB prospect being drafted higher than his stats dictate play a much greater role in soccer than in football due to the open, less scripted nature of the game.

If Michael Jordan had devoted his life to playing baseball would he have been a hall of famer? I highly doubt it. US Football, above almost all team sports, is obsessed with size and stats because athleticism is more important than talent for a lot of positions. In soccer the case is pretty much reversed. Diego Maradonna, George Best, Paul Gascoigne, Ronaldo (not Christiano) - none of them were particularly gifted athletes but they were all world class talents.
 
2013-03-27 05:32:30 PM  

Gonz: Boxing used to be HUGE. And when it died, it died really quick. And, yes, even if Mayweather and Pacquiao fight, I'm still calling boxing dead. It's a shell of its former self.


I still think there's a fanbase for it though, the problem is that there's no organization and too much corruption. If they set it up like the UFC I think they could make somewhat of a comeback, it's not like there aren't good fighters (both veterans and up and comers), but the setup of the sport is just atrocious. I think something they could do to improve the sport would be to add another weight division so guys like the Klitschko brothers couldn't totally dominate the heavyweight division. 200 being the minumum is outdated with the way modern athletes are.
 
2013-03-27 05:34:06 PM  

ScouserDuck: FLMountainMan: ScouserDuck: FLMountainMan: You're the jerk... jerk: ScouserDuck: This text is now purple: Lee's_Austin: I have to go back and rewatch, but if memory serves it was the networks that killed soccer here in the US in favor of promoting the domestic American Football as it was truly American.

In the US, American football promotes itself. There are 12 college football stadiums larger than the largest pro stadium.

Hell, there's only one stadium in the world larger than what U-M, PSU, OSU, Tennessee, Alabama, and Texas pull down 7-8 times per season.

The Big 10 puts more butts in seats than the EPL does.

Because all of England is smaller than the state of AZ.. Imagine if Ohio had 100 college teams with 20 of them playing in NCAA div 1. If that was the case the shoe wouldn't be half the size it is now. As it stands, the entire state of Ohio supports 1 team... Of course they can put butts in the seats.

Arizona has 55M people?

I think he meant land area.  Which is important when you are discussing how many people follow certain sports.

It does when sport allegiances are divided geographically. There are what? 4 EPL teams in the London city limits alone (Chelsea, arsenal, QPR, spurs....am I missing anyone?). If there was only 1-2 London teams, imagine how big their stadia could be. That doesn't even include the lower league teams.

New York has two professional baseball teams, two professional basketball teams, two professional football teams, two professional hockey teams, and one professional soccer team.

A) New York City has 0 football teams. They're both New Jersey teams. B) New York City had a larger population than London. If they actually had 4 teams in the city limits...their attendance per team would go down significantly which directly supports my original point that having significantly more teams in a smaller geographic area lowers attendance per team.


Aren't both baseball teams, both hockey teams and both basketball teams inside the city?
 
2013-03-27 05:45:13 PM  

seumasokelly: Aren't both baseball teams, both hockey teams and both basketball teams inside the city?


MLB - Yankees, Mets
NFL - Giants, Jets
NHL - Rangers, Islanders, Devils
NBA - Knicks, Nets

All but the Islanders within 15 miles of midtown Manhattan and easily accessible by mass transit in less than an hour.
 
2013-03-27 05:48:07 PM  
userserve-ak.last.fm
rudsoccers.com
Yes, let's try to emulate the Euro leagues! Great idea!
/the Euro leagues will resemble the NFL before MLS adopts promotion/relegation
 
2013-03-27 05:51:27 PM  

rka: The US doesn't lag the world class soccer countries because we don't have the athletes playing, that's absurd. We lag because we don't have an entire infrastructure dedicated to finding, nurturing and training those kids that show an aptitude at the levels other countries do. Kid gets good in soccer here in the US he still has to run the gauntlet of his local HS coach (maybe someone's dad volunteering) and local rules on the amount of games played and time to practice, maybe he finds some traveling all-star team with a better coach, maybe not. And then where does he go? College? Again, rules on number of games played, practice time, GPAs to maintain. Plus, name me a soccer factory College powerhouse on par with an Alabama or Miami for football. By the time a US player gets to a MLS team his counterpart in Europe has already been playing pro, with pro level coaching, for years.

The closest thing the US has to the soccer factories elsewhere is maybe Junior Hockey, where you take a kid at 16 and send him to play a much tougher schedule than he'd ever see in high school, or even college. But in soccer terms as defined by the countries that are really serious, 16 is already too late to really start.


I'm calling BS. If it was true that we " lag because we don't have an entire infrastructure dedicated to finding, nurturing and training those kids that show an aptitude at the levels other countries do" then why is it the the USMNT is actually decent? We don't have a system like that in the USA, but we can compete and win against countries that do have such a system? Sounds like the system isn't as important as you say. Clint Dempsey is one of the best on the US team and he grew up in Nacogdoches, Texas. I don't know if you have been there or not, I have, and I can tell you that they lack the system that you are talking about. Somehow in 2010, they managed to lead their group... again, with inferior athletes.

I lived in Germany, and witnessed this system you are talking about... no doubt, it creates a larger number of above average amateur players, but it isn't a pipeline to superior athleticism.

If all things were the same for someone like Clint Dempsey and Reggie Bush (not a huge Reggie Bush fan, just trying to stay with the same example) then Reggie would be a far superior soccer player. He would dominate soccer on an international level, as would at least 50 NFL and NBA players.
 
2013-03-27 05:54:45 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: seumasokelly: Aren't both baseball teams, both hockey teams and both basketball teams inside the city?

MLB - Yankees, Mets
NFL - Giants, Jets
NHL - Rangers, Islanders, Devils
NBA - Knicks, Nets

All but the Islanders within 15 miles of midtown Manhattan and easily accessible by mass transit in less than an hour.


The giants and jets are in New Jersey.
 
2013-03-27 05:55:49 PM  

ScouserDuck: The giants and jets are in New Jersey.


You should learn to read for context.
 
2013-03-27 06:01:06 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: ScouserDuck: The giants and jets are in New Jersey.

You should learn to read for context.


No..you're right..opening a fan base to an extra 8 million people has no bearing in the original conversation (eye roll)

None of the points counter the arguement that more teams (in the same sport) in a geographic area reduces each team's fan base.
 
2013-03-27 06:01:10 PM  

fo_sho!: If Michael Jordan had devoted his life to playing baseball would he have been a hall of famer?


Absolutely! Did you ever see Bo Jackson? That dude was dominant at track and field, baseball, and football. Had MJ dedicated his life to baseball, he would absolutely have been a hall of famer. If MJ had dedicated his life to sand volleyball, he would have dominated that too. There is absolutely NO substitute for pure athleticism. I can play basketball my entire life and at age 33 (same as Kobe Bryant I think) I would get embarrassed by a decent High School player, just based on his athleticism.

Here's a better example than MJ: Hakeem Olajuwon did not play basketball until he was 15, in Nigeria. He was previously a soccer player. He came to the USA to play basketball for the University of Houston, hopefully you know the rest. He is one of the best basketball players in the history of the game, and it wasn't because of his early coaching. He was a superior athlete. Of course, his body type is suited well for basketball, he is 7 feet tall. In my examples, I purposely listed people who were between 6' and 6'4" ... I even through in LeBron as a goalie.
 
2013-03-27 06:03:30 PM  

tylerdurden217: ... I even through in LeBron as a goalie.


threw in... jeez that's one of my pet peeves and I did it.
 
2013-03-27 06:04:09 PM  

ScouserDuck: Yanks_RSJ: ScouserDuck: The giants and jets are in New Jersey.

You should learn to read for context.

No..you're right..opening a fan base to an extra 8 million people has no bearing in the original conversation (eye roll)

None of the points counter the arguement that more teams (in the same sport) in a geographic area reduces each team's fan base.


Moving the goalposts a little.
 
2013-03-27 06:06:39 PM  

seumasokelly: ScouserDuck: Yanks_RSJ: ScouserDuck: The giants and jets are in New Jersey.

You should learn to read for context.

No..you're right..opening a fan base to an extra 8 million people has no bearing in the original conversation (eye roll)

None of the points counter the arguement that more teams (in the same sport) in a geographic area reduces each team's fan base.

Moving the goalposts a little.


What? How? The whole conversation started with the Big 10 being able to fill more seats than the EPL. It was entirely American football vs. English soccer..single sport comparisons. Nobody moved any goalposts.
 
2013-03-27 06:08:30 PM  

ScouserDuck: Yanks_RSJ: ScouserDuck: The giants and jets are in New Jersey.

You should learn to read for context.

No..you're right..opening a fan base to an extra 8 million people has no bearing in the original conversation (eye roll)


FFS. The Meadowlands is easier to get to from Manhattan than other places "in the city". Link

Herald Square to The Meadowlands can be done in under a half hour.
 
2013-03-27 06:09:08 PM  

ScouserDuck: seumasokelly: ScouserDuck: Yanks_RSJ: ScouserDuck: The giants and jets are in New Jersey.

You should learn to read for context.

No..you're right..opening a fan base to an extra 8 million people has no bearing in the original conversation (eye roll)

None of the points counter the arguement that more teams (in the same sport) in a geographic area reduces each team's fan base.

Moving the goalposts a little.

What? How? The whole conversation started with the Big 10 being able to fill more seats than the EPL. It was entirely American football vs. English soccer..single sport comparisons. Nobody moved any goalposts.


(eye roll)
 
2013-03-27 06:12:54 PM  
6 years ago, this was a fun website. Now it is nothing but a bunch of god damn trolls. Stupid farkers don't know how to live life without being a god damn idiot
 
2013-03-27 06:13:24 PM  
Ironically it was Americans that crossed into Mexico to do work
 
2013-03-27 06:16:48 PM  

seumasokelly: FFS. The Meadowlands is easier to get to from Manhattan than other places "in the city". Link

Herald Square to The Meadowlands can be done in under a half hour.


Using that same logic, it would also mean that it is easier for people in the northern Jersey suburbs to get there as well, thus opening up the fanbase.
 
2013-03-27 06:29:44 PM  

YonderScott: 6 years ago, this was a fun website. Now it is nothing but a bunch of god damn trolls. Stupid farkers don't know how to live life without being a god damn idiot


welcometofark.jpg.


(it's been this way for a decade)
 
2013-03-27 06:30:37 PM  
A 0-0 tie? How unusual and exciting
 
2013-03-27 06:31:43 PM  
tylerdurden217
I lived in Germany, and witnessed this system you are talking about...


Until the last 10-15 years or so, Germany's soccer training system was a laughing stock for other (even amateur) sports and for sport students looking at training sessions.
But things changed and that's why Germany finally has good players again - and why they're so young.

The "professional" coaches were usually former pros who needed a job, proceeded to sleep through some course to get a training license and then used their name to teach and train kids the same way they themselves were taught 20-30 years earlier.
For crying out loud, leading up to World Cup 2006 in Germany, Klinsmann was both mocked and considered revolutionary for hiring a couple of fitness coaches, creating individual exercise plans ("they have to do homework, hurr-durr!") and for getting advice from Germany's national field hockey coach (field hockey probably being Germany's most constantly successful team sport despite its amateur status).
He even wanted to install the former national field hockey coach to help implement his ideas, but having someone without a soccer history in an official capacity was a bit too much for the old boys club running the German football association, so they rejected Klinsmann's request and installed ex-pro Matthias Sammer in that position instead.
 
2013-03-27 06:32:57 PM  

tylerdurden217: fo_sho!: If Michael Jordan had devoted his life to playing baseball would he have been a hall of famer?

Absolutely! Did you ever see Bo Jackson? That dude was dominant at track and field, baseball, and football. Had MJ dedicated his life to baseball, he would absolutely have been a hall of famer. If MJ had dedicated his life to sand volleyball, he would have dominated that too. There is absolutely NO substitute for pure athleticism. I can play basketball my entire life and at age 33 (same as Kobe Bryant I think) I would get embarrassed by a decent High School player, just based on his athleticism.

Here's a better example than MJ: Hakeem Olajuwon did not play basketball until he was 15, in Nigeria. He was previously a soccer player. He came to the USA to play basketball for the University of Houston, hopefully you know the rest. He is one of the best basketball players in the history of the game, and it wasn't because of his early coaching. He was a superior athlete. Of course, his body type is suited well for basketball, he is 7 feet tall. In my examples, I purposely listed people who were between 6' and 6'4" ... I even through in LeBron as a goalie.


He's right. The US is ranked in the mid-20's in soccer. They would be a lot higher if the development system wasn't so scatter-shot. The more elite players, eventually that trickles up to more pros.
 
2013-03-27 07:01:11 PM  

rka: nwave: hdhale: Soccer is meant to be played, not watched.  There is a reason why most every stadium filled with soccer fans is drunk off their ass, fighting, or both.

And yet whatever sport you like to watch will never be watched by even half as many people as soccer, while soccer will go on being the most watched spectator sport that ever existed.

Funny how things worked out huh?

Something, something Spice Girls.


More like:

Something, something Beatles.

Soccer wasn't a 5 year trend. Its been dominant over all other spectator sports for over 50 years. Your favorite spectator sport has never had, and likely never will have, as many viewers as soccer does today.
 
2013-03-27 07:04:00 PM  

literaldeluxe: The Southern Dandy: Raging Whore Moans: literaldeluxe: Nana's Vibrator: low scoring of hockey

Both the NHL and NCAA have changed a number of hockey rules over the last several years with the specific intentions of increasing scoring and reducing the number of ties, in order to maintain or increase their audiences. Soccer may need similar changes to catch on in the US.

[cdn3.mocksession.com image 850x478]

Except soccer already has the largest audience of any sport in the world, so why would they want to change the rules?

2011 Revenue for US sports
NFL: $11.0 billion
MLB: $7.0 billion
NBA: $4.3 billion
NHL: $3.3 billion
MLS: $0.3 billion
Source

If MLS caught up to hockey in the US, it would mean an additional $3 billion in revenue per year, 11 times the current amount. If team/league owners thought they could do that, they'd forget about any
international standards in an instant.


Are you really comparing the 28th biggest soccer league to the biggest league in each of those sports?

You do realize that soccer makes more revenue than the NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL combined right?

i.imgur.com

Why would soccer change for a smaller market? When your king, you don't change yourself to be more like niche sports.
 
2013-03-27 07:04:38 PM  
trappedspirit: Oldiron_79: A game with a 0-0 tie... that sounds about as entertaining as watching paint dry.

It's soccer.  I don't think even removing the goalies would improve things much.


LOL, well I kind of enjoy playing soccer, but seriously, watching it is about as entertaining as watching paint dry.
 
2013-03-27 07:08:42 PM  

trappedspirit: Oldiron_79: A game with a 0-0 tie... that sounds about as entertaining as watching paint dry.

It's soccer.  I don't think even removing the goalies would improve things much.


I don't see it ever becoming a successful spectator sport. Its something little 9 year old girls play because it takes no skill or toughness, but who would want to watch soccer over exciting sports like football, baseball, basketball and hockey? Practically no one, that's why its relegated to the Third World where they can't afford our sports.
 
2013-03-27 07:16:31 PM  

carnifex2005: tylerdurden217: fo_sho!: If Michael Jordan had devoted his life to playing baseball would he have been a hall of famer?

Absolutely! Did you ever see Bo Jackson? That dude was dominant at track and field, baseball, and football. Had MJ dedicated his life to baseball, he would absolutely have been a hall of famer. If MJ had dedicated his life to sand volleyball, he would have dominated that too. There is absolutely NO substitute for pure athleticism. I can play basketball my entire life and at age 33 (same as Kobe Bryant I think) I would get embarrassed by a decent High School player, just based on his athleticism.

Here's a better example than MJ: Hakeem Olajuwon did not play basketball until he was 15, in Nigeria. He was previously a soccer player. He came to the USA to play basketball for the University of Houston, hopefully you know the rest. He is one of the best basketball players in the history of the game, and it wasn't because of his early coaching. He was a superior athlete. Of course, his body type is suited well for basketball, he is 7 feet tall. In my examples, I purposely listed people who were between 6' and 6'4" ... I even through in LeBron as a goalie.

He's right. The US is ranked in the mid-20's in soccer. They would be a lot higher if the development system wasn't so scatter-shot. The more elite players, eventually that trickles up to more pros.


That wasn't the original argument. The original argument was that the NFL and NBA stars of the US would be dominant world soccer players if they had played soccer from a young age. I still don't think that is true because:

1. Athleticism is not the same as talent - and talent in one sport at world class level does not translate directly
2. The US lacks the same type of early training as soccer powerhouses (this argument got changed along the way)
3. To assume that the US would dominate at soccer "if they wanted to" is arrogant and sounds like sour grapes. The US was knocked out of the last TWO world cups by GHANA, ferchrissakes.

Actually - one thing that struck me last night was that the US team looked like a bigger, more "athletic" side compared to the mexicans. The defense played well, especially in the air and they didn't get as gassed in the high altitude as you'd expect. The gameplan was clearly to dig in and play for the draw, and it worked.

Where the team was lacking (and the Mexicans too, especially after the first 30 mins) was in the creativity and skillful passing and one on one. Not athleticism. Those same qualities are what make the greatest players.

Statements like:
If all things were the same for someone like Clint Dempsey and Reggie Bush (not a huge Reggie Bush fan, just trying to stay with the same example) then Reggie would be a far superior soccer player. He would dominate soccer on an international level, as would at least 50 NFL and NBA players.
Are clearly just wanking. Granted, there would be some good players, possibly a few great ones, but 50 dominant international soccer players from the current pool?
 
2013-03-27 07:21:40 PM  

nwave: literaldeluxe: The Southern Dandy: Raging Whore Moans: literaldeluxe: Nana's Vibrator: low scoring of hockey

Both the NHL and NCAA have changed a number of hockey rules over the last several years with the specific intentions of increasing scoring and reducing the number of ties, in order to maintain or increase their audiences. Soccer may need similar changes to catch on in the US.

[cdn3.mocksession.com image 850x478]

Except soccer already has the largest audience of any sport in the world, so why would they want to change the rules?

2011 Revenue for US sports
NFL: $11.0 billion
MLB: $7.0 billion
NBA: $4.3 billion
NHL: $3.3 billion
MLS: $0.3 billion
Source

If MLS caught up to hockey in the US, it would mean an additional $3 billion in revenue per year, 11 times the current amount. If team/league owners thought they could do that, they'd forget about any
international standards in an instant.

Are you really comparing the 28th biggest soccer league to the biggest league in each of those sports?

You do realize that soccer makes more revenue than the NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL combined right?

[i.imgur.com image 648x439]

Why would soccer change for a smaller market? When your king, you don't change yourself to be more like niche sports.


1. No one cares what Euros and poors watch
2. At least the football, baseball, basketball, and hockey figures are low (the NFL made almost as much from TV alone in 2009 as is shown in that chart)
3. That figure combines in "soccer" more than five separate leagues across a number of countries, and they didn't include things like Japan's and various South American baseball leagues in the baseball figure

great chart, good job
 
2013-03-27 07:25:31 PM  

BigJake: nwave: literaldeluxe: The Southern Dandy: Raging Whore Moans: literaldeluxe: Nana's Vibrator: low scoring of hockey

Both the NHL and NCAA have changed a number of hockey rules over the last several years with the specific intentions of increasing scoring and reducing the number of ties, in order to maintain or increase their audiences. Soccer may need similar changes to catch on in the US.

[cdn3.mocksession.com image 850x478]

Except soccer already has the largest audience of any sport in the world, so why would they want to change the rules?

2011 Revenue for US sports
NFL: $11.0 billion
MLB: $7.0 billion
NBA: $4.3 billion
NHL: $3.3 billion
MLS: $0.3 billion
Source

If MLS caught up to hockey in the US, it would mean an additional $3 billion in revenue per year, 11 times the current amount. If team/league owners thought they could do that, they'd forget about any
international standards in an instant.

Are you really comparing the 28th biggest soccer league to the biggest league in each of those sports?

You do realize that soccer makes more revenue than the NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL combined right?

[i.imgur.com image 648x439]

Why would soccer change for a smaller market? When your king, you don't change yourself to be more like niche sports.

1. No one cares what Euros and poors watch
2. At least the football, baseball, basketball, and hockey figures are low (the NFL made almost as much from TV alone in 2009 as is shown in that chart)
3. That figure combines in "soccer" more than five separate leagues across a number of countries, and they didn't include things like Japan's and various South American baseball leagues in the baseball figure

great chart, good job


You are so farking mad right now. You can't stand that soccer dwarfs your favorite sport in every measure of success there is. You wish it wasn't true and your only retort is "No one cares what Euros and poors watch ".

Lel @ not even being able to read a chart and thinking its in US dollars.
Lel @ denying that includes all revenue for all sports (including south american/japanese baseball leagues)
 
2013-03-27 07:26:49 PM  

You're the jerk... jerk: rickythepenguin:

/ok, change the game to add a ref in each half of the field.  the ball can go from penalty box to penalty box  in 5 seconds.  the ref just cannot see all the stuff going on and a second pair of eyes on the field (the lineman response is unsatisfactory) would help.  but yeah, that willl never happen either so WFC.

3 or 4 refs in high level games, serious repercussions for flopping (not just a soccer problem) and an independent time keeper are my top three wants from soccer.

/And a change to the handball rule when behind the goal keeper to award more than the penalty shot


What would an independent timekeeper do? The referee is perfectly capable of keeping time, he has a watch on his arm, it's not hard.

The 4th referee communicates the added time towards the end of the match, so that everyone knows how much time has been added.

The referee then stops the match when that time is up + whatever else has been added, once any ongoing attack is over.


There is no problem to solve.
 
2013-03-27 07:31:34 PM  
WTF, Mexico! You had ONE JOB!

i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-27 07:36:43 PM  
tylerdurden217: fo_sho!: If Michael Jordan had devoted his life to playing baseball would he have been a hall of famer?

Absolutely! Did you ever see Bo Jackson? That dude was dominant at track and field, baseball, and football. Had MJ dedicated his life to baseball, he would absolutely have been a hall of famer. If MJ had dedicated his life to sand volleyball, he would have dominated that too. There is absolutely NO substitute for pure athleticism. I can play basketball my entire life and at age 33 (same as Kobe Bryant I think) I would get embarrassed by a decent High School player, just based on his athleticism.

Here's a better example than MJ: Hakeem Olajuwon did not play basketball until he was 15, in Nigeria. He was previously a soccer player. He came to the USA to play basketball for the University of Houston, hopefully you know the rest. He is one of the best basketball players in the history of the game, and it wasn't because of his early coaching. He was a superior athlete. Of course, his body type is suited well for basketball, he is 7 feet tall. In my examples, I purposely listed people who were between 6' and 6'4" ... I even through in LeBron as a goalie.


Well most NBA players are taller than is ideal for soccer, and most NFL players are far bulkier than is ideal for soccer, so you are probably looking at MLB and NHL players who would be the soccer stars if soccer was the same kind of big deal in the U.S. that football, basketball, baseball, and hockey.
 
2013-03-27 07:40:06 PM  

nwave: You are so farking mad right now. You can't stand that soccer dwarfs your favorite sport in every measure of success there is. You wish it wasn't true and your only retort is "No one cares what Euros and poors watch ".

Lel @ not even being able to read a chart and thinking its in US dollars.
Lel @ denying that includes all revenue for all sports (including south american/japanese baseball leagues)


lol ok miss cleo

I didn't think it was in US dollars, NFL TV revenue alone in 2009 was 5.07 billion euros and there are several billion more in stadium and merchandising revenues, aka

BigJake: "the NFL made almost as much from TV alone in 2009 as is shown in that chart

"

It doesn't include those foreign baseball revenues, as MLB revenues alone in 2009 were 5.15 billion euros and Japan's league earns about 1/3 of that by itself, putting those two countries' totals at 6.85 billion euros
 
2013-03-27 07:40:35 PM  
If you don't like watching soccer, don't watch it. Why do American feel his incessant need to tell others that soccer shouldn't be watched? Whether you watch or not it will continue to dwarf your favorite sport in viewership and there is  no amount of soccer bashing that will change that.

As to "Why doesn't soccer change to be like American sports?"

Soccer would have to shrink massively, lose hundreds of millions of fans and billions of revenue in order to be like American sports. It doesn't want that. They are the ones making changes in hope of growing to soccer's level one day.

tl;dr: American haters gonna hate, GOAT sport gonna GOAT.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-27 07:43:08 PM  

This text is now purple: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: In CONCACAF, the US should seriously schedule every game for someplace with snow in the forecast. Denver was perfect for a warm-weather, sea-level opponent like Costa Rica. Like the altitude at Azteca, it's our strongest homefield advantage. We should only ever play Mexico in Seattle or Portland, or failing that, Phoenix. But only after arresting the families of Mexico's players for being illegals.

As for being pleased, only 8 countries have ever won at Azteca (the US is one of them), and only Brazil and Peru have done it twice.

We're only two or three hundred feet above sea level in Portland. I mean, it does rain a ton but the temperature is pretty temperate. Not exactly hostile territory for a team from El Carib up here.

Team Mexico typically plays in Mexico City, a high-altitude, warm-weather, arid-climate.

Portland is the opposite of that. It's a sea level, cold, wet climate. It's everything the non-EPL Mexican players aren't used to.

Sort of how we played Costa Rica (sea-level, humid, hot) in Denver in a blizzard (high-altitude, arid, frigid). The US has a fabulous amount of geographic diversity. It's about time we exploit that to our own advantage. Our first home win over Mexico came when we finally stopped playing in LA and took Mexico to Fort Lauderdale, where the locals hate Mexicans. The threat of being murdered by the locals tends to make a team play below their talent. We have to play in the shiathole that is Mexico City and Guatemala City; it's only fair. We should bring them to Detroit.


You keep saying that CR is sea level.  San Jose is at 3800 feet elevation.
 
2013-03-27 07:47:23 PM  

nwave: Why do American feel his incessant need to tell others that soccer shouldn't be watched?


because it's awful and we don't want it to catch on anywhere north of the Rio Grande
 
2013-03-27 07:54:11 PM  

BigJake: nwave: Why do American feel his incessant need to tell others that soccer shouldn't be watched?

we don't want it to catch on anywhere north of the Rio Grande


Well you're a fighting a losing culture war. At this point point the evil soccer foreign sports terrorism virus has been planted and no amount of peer pressure from the older generation is going to remove it. ESPN really doesn't care what anti-soccer dinosaurs think anymore, because your kind is dying out. Welcome to 2012, give me my country back!

i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-27 07:55:21 PM  
Why do American feel his incessant need to tell others that soccer shouldn't be watched?

Because Europeans and American soccer fans feel an incessant need to tell us we should be watching soccer instead of our sports that we already watch and enjoy.

Its not like we haven't heard of it or its not available we just don't care for it. piss off and stop trying to tell us we need to watch it.
 
2013-03-27 07:57:19 PM  

Oldiron_79: Why do American feel his incessant need to tell others that soccer shouldn't be watched?

Because Europeans and American soccer fans feel an incessant need to tell us we should be watching soccer instead of our sports that we already watch and enjoy.

Its not like we haven't heard of it or its not available we just don't care for it. piss off and stop trying to tell us we need to watch it.


This is ass backward.
 
2013-03-27 08:01:07 PM  

nwave: Well you're a fighting a losing culture war.


nope

nwave: the older generation


still a long way from this

seumasokelly: This is ass backward.


nope again
 
2013-03-27 08:04:19 PM  

Oldiron_79: Why do American feel his incessant need to tell others that soccer shouldn't be watched?

Because Europeans and American soccer fans feel an incessant need to tell us we should be watching soccer instead of our sports that we already watch and enjoy.

Its not like we haven't heard of it or its not available we just don't care for it. piss off and stop trying to tell us we need to watch it.


Nobody in Europe gives a shiat about what Americans watch.

Hating soccer on the other hand is a national sport in America. You guys get so damn threatened that its growing in your country, every time its gets national attention you have a wave of anti-soccer traditionalists trying to peer pressure other Americans from accepting soccer and trying to tell them to watch American sports. This doesn't happen with any other sport except soccer. Why?

i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-27 08:08:14 PM  

nwave: Nobody in Europe gives a shiat about what Americans watch.


huh. wonder who came up with "armoured wankball" then

must have been Aussies
 
2013-03-27 08:09:51 PM  
nwave:

Hating soccer on the other hand is a national sport in America. You guys get so damn threatened that its growing in your country, every time its gets national attention you have a wave of anti-soccer traditionalists trying to peer pressure other Americans from accepting soccer and trying to tell them to watch American sports. This doesn't happen with any other sport except soccer. Why?

[i.imgur.com image 850x750]


Because curling or Greco-Roman wrestling don't have tons of fanbois running around telling us how we should be watching them because the rest of the world does.
 
2013-03-27 08:11:14 PM  
also most American soccer fans are awful hipster wannabe Eurotrash which probably has something to do with it
 
2013-03-27 08:11:56 PM  
Let me rephrase that to most WHITE American soccer fans...
 
2013-03-27 08:43:00 PM  

nwave: Soccer wasn't a 5 year trend. Its been dominant over all other spectator sports for over 50 years. Your favorite spectator sport has never had, and likely never will have, as many viewers as soccer does today.


Doubtful - millions of people are watching porn on the Internet as we speak.
 
2013-03-27 08:45:47 PM  

nwave: Nobody in Europe gives a shiat about what Americans watch


You seem to care a whole lot. American's honestly don't care about what the rest of the world does, that's why they rest of the world hates us. We barely care about ice hockey. Soccer is growing in the US, but if soccer fans keep acting douchey about their role in American sports they wont get too many new converts.
 
2013-03-27 09:09:17 PM  

fo_sho!: There are 6 EPL teams in London, 3 Championship teams, 2 League one teams and 3 league 2 teams - 14 teams of professionals (big wage disparity though) and a lot more semi pro teams.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_in_London

There are 92 professional teams in England - although the lower league teams may well have semi pro players. Allegiances are a lot more local than NFL teams. The same goes for a lot of the big cities - in fact I think just a ...


That's what makes the English football fan even better than a fan of say, Alabama, Oklahoma, a Steelers fan, a Celtics fan, etc..  They could easily ditch those smaller clubs and follow the big sides like a Chelsea or Arsenal; they, however, are truly devoted to their local side.
 
2013-03-27 09:11:55 PM  

Trocadero: [userserve-ak.last.fm image 400x400]
[rudsoccers.com image 400x400]
Yes, let's try to emulate the Euro leagues! Great idea!
/the Euro leagues will resemble the NFL before MLS adopts promotion/relegation


Yes, let's...and you know why?  They're not always interested in "the bottom line" like most American teams.  Yeah, they'll be situations like the one at Rangers or Pompey.  For every one of those however, you'll have a Swansea City that are run in the right matter and still win trophies and an Arsenal that regularly compete in European football.
 
2013-03-27 09:16:17 PM  

nwave: BigJake: nwave: literaldeluxe: The Southern Dandy: Raging Whore Moans: literaldeluxe: Nana's Vibrator: low scoring of hockey

Both the NHL and NCAA have changed a number of hockey rules over the last several years with the specific intentions of increasing scoring and reducing the number of ties, in order to maintain or increase their audiences. Soccer may need similar changes to catch on in the US.

[cdn3.mocksession.com image 850x478]

Except soccer already has the largest audience of any sport in the world, so why would they want to change the rules?

2011 Revenue for US sports
NFL: $11.0 billion
MLB: $7.0 billion
NBA: $4.3 billion
NHL: $3.3 billion
MLS: $0.3 billion
Source

If MLS caught up to hockey in the US, it would mean an additional $3 billion in revenue per year, 11 times the current amount. If team/league owners thought they could do that, they'd forget about any
international standards in an instant.

Are you really comparing the 28th biggest soccer league to the biggest league in each of those sports?

You do realize that soccer makes more revenue than the NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL combined right?

[i.imgur.com image 648x439]

Why would soccer change for a smaller market? When your king, you don't change yourself to be more like niche sports.

1. No one cares what Euros and poors watch
2. At least the football, baseball, basketball, and hockey figures are low (the NFL made almost as much from TV alone in 2009 as is shown in that chart)
3. That figure combines in "soccer" more than five separate leagues across a number of countries, and they didn't include things like Japan's and various South American baseball leagues in the baseball figure

great chart, good job

You are so farking mad right now. You can't stand that soccer dwarfs your favorite sport in every measure of success there is. You wish it wasn't true and your only retort is "No one cares what Euros and poors watch ".

Lel @ not even being able to read a chart and thinking its in US dollars.
Lel ...


I was discussing the US market; the worldwide revenues are irrelevant. MLS and its team owners are in it to make money themselves, and they don't benefit from the fact that teams in other countries are raking it in.

For the record, I'm not anti-soccer. While it's not a sport that I like all that much, I respect that it is the biggest sport on the planet, and I would be happy to have it succeed in the US (it would actually be a lot of fun to have a sport with actual overseas competition). I was simply arguing for why changes might be necessary for it to succeed in the United States in the near-term.
 
2013-03-27 09:24:28 PM  
I don't watch soccer very often (usually WC and then I'm out) and I glanced at the first half while I was playing Bioshock, but I did watch the second and it was farking awesome. I don't know how the US eked that out with how bad anyone could tell Beasley was, but that was cool. What was it, 11 injured US players going into the match?

/no snark
//no cynicism
 
2013-03-27 09:35:26 PM  

bearcats1983: I'm really loving Guzan after these last few games. I was nervous with Howard being out due to injury, but Guzan is an awesome alternative.

It's really unsettling they only had one legit shot last night. That kind of offensive performance will barely contend with CONCACAF's shiattiest teams; they're toast if that's what they can put up against the Spains and Germanys of the world.


Mexico is not CONCACAF's shiattiest team, and that one SOG is a result of that.

As for Guzan, I'm surprised how few people expected this from him, since he's pretty much single-handedly keeping Aston Villa from relegation right now.
 
2013-03-27 09:46:58 PM  
Great, we are the Hull FC of the international football world.  While leaving with a point was/is an accomplishment, but at what point does USA Soccer finally get over the hump and go into a place like El Azteca and not play a cynical match where all we need is 10 players parked in the defensive area and a healthy dose of luck just to get one point?

I do have to give credit to this team as they will never (almost never) be criticized for a lack of effort, unfortunately this team as constituted today has all the flair of a grey crayon.

IMO, the problem with the USA is a severe lack of depth in the midfield and attacking end of the field, not Klinsmann's tactics.  I do like what Klinsmann is trying to do by casting a wide net trying to find players.  At this point, USA Soccer either needs to take a significant step forward, or accept that the general public has lost interest in the national team.  I am of the opinion we need to hook our wagon to JK and convince him to stay for the foreseeable future-overhauling every level of American soccer with the aim of creating a self sustaining program where players don't have to leave the country in order to get a level of competitive soccer that will get them ready for the international game.

If JK is not the coach for USA Soccer, we need to make that decision sooner rather than later and IF he were to be replaced, the only acceptable option would be hiring someone who has a big picture vision of the future of soccer in America, not just simply a national team manager.
 
2013-03-27 10:27:31 PM  

literaldeluxe: If MLS caught up to hockey in the US, it would mean an additional $3 billion in revenue per year, 11 times the current amount. If team/league owners thought they could do that, they'd forget about any international standards in an instant.


MLS started with a goofy system of rules where there were no ties and the games went to overtime periods and penalty shootouts where the player started with the ball at midfield and had 5 seconds to shoot or something like that.  What resulted was a bastardized game that nobody wanted to watch.  MLS has seen its biggest amount of growth since it decided to bring the game more into the realm of how the world plays and scores it. The only real thing left for it do is promotion/relegation, go to a single table, eliminate the playoffs and make it a fall-winter sport as they do in the rest of the northern hemisphere.

MLS needs to figure out how to be more like soccer since long ago it abandoned trying to be like basketball
 
2013-03-27 10:29:25 PM  

rka: tylerdurden217: Each and every one of these guys is a better athlete than any soccer player from any country that you can name. Now of course you would need to have played the sport and have some decent coaching, but the USA would dominate.


And if none of them could creatively handle a soccer ball in traffic it wouldn't matter one bit. "Decent coaching"? You're going to need more than decent coaching,  world class athletes or not. It takes DECADES of coaching, generations even. From an early age. And it takes a massive feeder infrastructure to find, funnel and train those kids.

The US doesn't lag the world class soccer countries because we don't have the athletes playing, that's absurd. We lag because we don't have an entire infrastructure dedicated to finding, nurturing and training those kids that show an aptitude at the levels other countries do. Kid gets good in soccer here in the US he still has to run the gauntlet of his local HS coach (maybe someone's dad volunteering) and local rules on the amount of games played and time to practice, maybe he finds some traveling all-star team with a better coach, maybe not. And then where does he go? College? Again, rules on number of games played, practice time, GPAs to maintain. Plus, name me a soccer factory College powerhouse on par with an Alabama or Miami for football. By the time a US player gets to a MLS team his counterpart in Europe has already been playing pro, with pro level coaching, for years.

The closest thing the US has to the soccer factories elsewhere is maybe Junior Hockey, where you take a kid at 16 and send him to play a much tougher schedule than he'd ever see in high school, or even college. But in soccer terms as defined by the countries that are really serious, 16 is already too late to really start.


correct:   when you add up the number of touches per hour, under pro coaching supervision, plus playing tiki taka with your soccer monkey friends after practice in the barca academy vs the same in US rec, club and HS soccer, it's an insurmountable lifetime of difference in quality
 
2013-03-27 10:48:03 PM  

bearcats1983: I'm really loving Guzan after these last few games. I was nervous with Howard being out due to injury, but Guzan is an awesome alternative.

It's really unsettling they only had one legit shot last night. That kind of offensive performance will barely contend with CONCACAF's shiattiest teams; they're toast if that's what they can put up against the Spains and Germanys of the world.


Guzan was a thrill to watch at Chivas USA matches. Didn't matter how bad the rojiblanco back line was--and they let Panchito play right corner back for an entire season--El Guzano was going to have a clean sheet. He did get a bizarre straight red for "impeding a striker's ability to score a goal." In the NBA, the offensive player would have been called for a charge*, but it was Houston in a year the Dynamo were the team of destiny.

* Offer not valid in Miami, Los Angeles, nor Chicago c. 1990's.
 
2013-03-27 11:06:46 PM  
Many international soccer officials, managers, administrators, etc are not white and most Americans are racists.
 
2013-03-27 11:10:45 PM  
 
2013-03-28 12:12:31 AM  

nwave: literaldeluxe: The Southern Dandy: Raging Whore Moans: literaldeluxe: Nana's Vibrator: low scoring of hockey

Both the NHL and NCAA have changed a number of hockey rules over the last several years with the specific intentions of increasing scoring and reducing the number of ties, in order to maintain or increase their audiences. Soccer may need similar changes to catch on in the US.

[cdn3.mocksession.com image 850x478]

Except soccer already has the largest audience of any sport in the world, so why would they want to change the rules?

2011 Revenue for US sports
NFL: $11.0 billion
MLB: $7.0 billion
NBA: $4.3 billion
NHL: $3.3 billion
MLS: $0.3 billion
Source

If MLS caught up to hockey in the US, it would mean an additional $3 billion in revenue per year, 11 times the current amount. If team/league owners thought they could do that, they'd forget about any
international standards in an instant.

Are you really comparing the 28th biggest soccer league to the biggest league in each of those sports?

You do realize that soccer makes more revenue than the NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL combined right?

[i.imgur.com image 648x439]

Why would soccer change for a smaller market? When your king, you don't change yourself to be more like niche sports.


Your chart is wrong. NFL football made $9.5B in league revenues in 2011 - and that is just the game. Adding all of the branded products will probably add a few billion more. I think soccer is bigger, but it doesn't dwarf American football by that much.
 
2013-03-28 01:28:00 AM  

Anonymocoso: http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releases/2013/03/mexico-vs-usa-espn s -most-viewed-and-highest-rated-fifa-world-cup-qualifying-match/

TV rating on ESPN = 1.4.  Add in Univision, and that's almost respectable.


It got the best rating in Birmingham, Alabama??? Dafuq?
 
2013-03-28 01:28:48 AM  
Fast-kicking, low scoring, and ties? You bet!
 
2013-03-28 08:11:05 AM  

nwave: trappedspirit: Oldiron_79: A game with a 0-0 tie... that sounds about as entertaining as watching paint dry.

It's soccer.  I don't think even removing the goalies would improve things much.

I don't see it ever becoming a successful spectator sport. Its something little 9 year old girls play because it takes no skill or toughness, but who would want to watch soccer over exciting sports like football, baseball, basketball and hockey? Practically no one, that's why its relegated to the Third World where they can't afford our sports.


You're claiming that soccer "takes no skill?"  Seriously, WTF?

American Football: A bunch of fat pricks push each other over and then one guy runs really fast through the gaps.. Yeah, that really takes skill. One guy on the team has the ability to pass the ball, and is thus revered as some kind of god. Occasionally a dude has the technique to actually catch the aforementioned ball. Did I mention that you get a whole 11 minutes of this during a 3 hour game? Because that's like totes awesome.

Basketball: Skill = being born tall.

Baseball: Vastly dumbed down version of cricket. Primarily invented to sell hot dogs, peanuts and beer to ignorant rubes. Free vial of snake oil and a palm-reading with every ticket.
 
2013-03-28 09:58:30 AM  

spawn73: You're the jerk... jerk: rickythepenguin:

/ok, change the game to add a ref in each half of the field.  the ball can go from penalty box to penalty box  in 5 seconds.  the ref just cannot see all the stuff going on and a second pair of eyes on the field (the lineman response is unsatisfactory) would help.  but yeah, that willl never happen either so WFC.

3 or 4 refs in high level games, serious repercussions for flopping (not just a soccer problem) and an independent time keeper are my top three wants from soccer.

/And a change to the handball rule when behind the goal keeper to award more than the penalty shot

What would an independent timekeeper do? The referee is perfectly capable of keeping time, he has a watch on his arm, it's not hard.

The 4th referee communicates the added time towards the end of the match, so that everyone knows how much time has been added.

The referee then stops the match when that time is up + whatever else has been added, once any ongoing attack is over.


There is no problem to solve.


Coming from an American perspective, where every sport has an independent time keeper, I like the idea of a referee having no influence and/or concern over how much time is left in a game. His focus should be 100% on the action. Of course I also prefer a countdown clock, so maybe soccer is never going to satisfy me.
 
2013-03-28 10:53:37 AM  

You're the jerk... jerk: spawn73: You're the jerk... jerk: rickythepenguin:

/ok, change the game to add a ref in each half of the field.  the ball can go from penalty box to penalty box  in 5 seconds.  the ref just cannot see all the stuff going on and a second pair of eyes on the field (the lineman response is unsatisfactory) would help.  but yeah, that willl never happen either so WFC.

3 or 4 refs in high level games, serious repercussions for flopping (not just a soccer problem) and an independent time keeper are my top three wants from soccer.

/And a change to the handball rule when behind the goal keeper to award more than the penalty shot

What would an independent timekeeper do? The referee is perfectly capable of keeping time, he has a watch on his arm, it's not hard.

The 4th referee communicates the added time towards the end of the match, so that everyone knows how much time has been added.

The referee then stops the match when that time is up + whatever else has been added, once any ongoing attack is over.


There is no problem to solve.

Coming from an American perspective, where every sport has an independent time keeper, I like the idea of a referee having no influence and/or concern over how much time is left in a game. His focus should be 100% on the action. Of course I also prefer a countdown clock, so maybe soccer is never going to satisfy me.


Unless you change the rules, the timekeeper would just be doing the same as the referee.

Given that the referee only adds time when there's no action, I don't see him being distracted by this duty though.
 
2013-03-28 10:53:47 AM  

madgonad: nwave: literaldeluxe: The Southern Dandy: Raging Whore Moans: literaldeluxe: Nana's Vibrator: low scoring of hockey

Both the NHL and NCAA have changed a number of hockey rules over the last several years with the specific intentions of increasing scoring and reducing the number of ties, in order to maintain or increase their audiences. Soccer may need similar changes to catch on in the US.

[cdn3.mocksession.com image 850x478]

Except soccer already has the largest audience of any sport in the world, so why would they want to change the rules?

2011 Revenue for US sports
NFL: $11.0 billion
MLB: $7.0 billion
NBA: $4.3 billion
NHL: $3.3 billion
MLS: $0.3 billion
Source

If MLS caught up to hockey in the US, it would mean an additional $3 billion in revenue per year, 11 times the current amount. If team/league owners thought they could do that, they'd forget about any
international standards in an instant.

Are you really comparing the 28th biggest soccer league to the biggest league in each of those sports?

You do realize that soccer makes more revenue than the NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL combined right?

[i.imgur.com image 648x439]

Why would soccer change for a smaller market? When your king, you don't change yourself to be more like niche sports.

Your chart is wrong. NFL football made $9.5B in league revenues in 2011 - and that is just the game. Adding all of the branded products will probably add a few billion more. I think soccer is bigger, but it doesn't dwarf American football by that much.


Being so mad that soccer dwarfs american football that you can't accept reality and have to lie on the internet.

Stay beta soccer hating Americans.
  https://www.atkearney.com/paper/-/asset_publisher/dVxv4Hz2h8bS/con tent /the-sports-market/10192
 
2013-03-28 10:55:43 AM  

This text is now purple: We should only ever play Mexico in Seattle or Portland, or failing that, Phoenix.


We always play the Mexico game in Columbus and it has worked pretty well.
 
2013-03-28 11:12:08 AM  

Trapper439: nwave: trappedspirit: Oldiron_79: A game with a 0-0 tie... that sounds about as entertaining as watching paint dry.

It's soccer.  I don't think even removing the goalies would improve things much.

I don't see it ever becoming a successful spectator sport. Its something little 9 year old girls play because it takes no skill or toughness, but who would want to watch soccer over exciting sports like football, baseball, basketball and hockey? Practically no one, that's why its relegated to the Third World where they can't afford our sports.

You're claiming that soccer "takes no skill?"  Seriously, WTF?

American Football: A bunch of fat pricks push each other over and then one guy runs really fast through the gaps.. Yeah, that really takes skill. One guy on the team has the ability to pass the ball, and is thus revered as some kind of god. Occasionally a dude has the technique to actually catch the aforementioned ball. Did I mention that you get a whole 11 minutes of this during a 3 hour game? Because that's like totes awesome.

Basketball: Skill = being born tall.

Baseball: Vastly dumbed down version of cricket. Primarily invented to sell hot dogs, peanuts and beer to ignorant rubes. Free vial of snake oil and a palm-reading with every ticket.


Please go back to whatever shiathole country you came from. Soccer is played by little 9 year old white upper/middle class girls, it wil never be respected. Real football players would dominate soccer if we cared, that's unrefutable law.i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-28 11:55:36 AM  

GQueue: We always play the Mexico game in Columbus and it has worked pretty well.


I think we ought to convert Bristol and play them there. Bigger than Azteca, it can be converted to a pitch, and you're sending the Mexicans into not only SEC country but Appalachia.
 
2013-03-28 01:18:54 PM  

Trapper439: nwave: trappedspirit: Oldiron_79: A game with a 0-0 tie... that sounds about as entertaining as watching paint dry.

It's soccer.  I don't think even removing the goalies would improve things much.

I don't see it ever becoming a successful spectator sport. Its something little 9 year old girls play because it takes no skill or toughness, but who would want to watch soccer over exciting sports like football, baseball, basketball and hockey? Practically no one, that's why its relegated to the Third World where they can't afford our sports.

You're claiming that soccer "takes no skill?"  Seriously, WTF?

American Football: A bunch of fat pricks push each other over and then one guy runs really fast through the gaps.. Yeah, that really takes skill. One guy on the team has the ability to pass the ball, and is thus revered as some kind of god. Occasionally a dude has the technique to actually catch the aforementioned ball. Did I mention that you get a whole 11 minutes of this during a 3 hour game? Because that's like totes awesome.

Basketball: Skill = being born tall.

Baseball: Vastly dumbed down version of cricket. Primarily invented to sell hot dogs, peanuts and beer to ignorant rubes. Free vial of snake oil and a palm-reading with every ticket.


Still fighting your coonty fight against American sports, huh?
 
2013-03-28 01:29:00 PM  

Anonymocoso: Many international soccer officials, managers, administrators, etc are not white and most Americans are racists.


Yes.  Because so many other First World Countries have a black person as president.

But you're right, Europe wasn't racist at all.  At least until people of other races began moving there.  Then shiat got real.  Quickly.
 
2013-03-28 04:52:03 PM  
A lot of people grew up hating soccer and they're going to keep right on hating. The devil you know.
 
2013-03-28 07:11:33 PM  

BigJake: nwave: Nobody in Europe gives a shiat about what Americans watch.

huh. wonder who came up with "armoured wankball" then

must have been Aussies


You're confusing internet trolls with the rest of society.
 
2013-03-29 08:14:08 AM  

TheJoe03: Still fighting your coonty fight against American sports, huh?


Nah, just giving the "U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! We're #1!" crowd that show up in every thread about non-US sports the ridicule they so richly deserve.

Although I see now that nwave was posting with his tongue firmly in his cheek. Well played, nwave.I should have taken more notice of your other posts. My bad.
 
2013-03-30 06:48:35 AM  

Trapper439: Nah, just giving the "U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! We're #1!" crowd that show up in every thread about non-US sports the ridicule they so richly deserve.


Honest question, do Europeans (and Australians I guess) treat basketball and ice hockey the way Americans treat soccer? Those are the two North American sports that have garnered a presence in Europe on the level soccer has here, so does Euro patriotism lead to soccer fans ignorantly hating on these foreign sports?
 
2013-03-30 08:52:11 AM  
TheJoe03:Honest question, do Europeans (and Australians I guess) treat basketball and ice hockey the way Americans treat soccer?

Not sure, but people in Manchester treat rugby like people in Puri treat the Ratha yatra.
 
2013-03-30 08:53:43 AM  

TheJoe03: Trapper439: Nah, just giving the "U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! We're #1!" crowd that show up in every thread about non-US sports the ridicule they so richly deserve.

Honest question, do Europeans (and Australians I guess) treat basketball and ice hockey the way Americans treat soccer? Those are the two North American sports that have garnered a presence in Europe on the level soccer has here, so does Euro patriotism lead to soccer fans ignorantly hating on these foreign sports?


I can only speak for myself, but to me basketball is a sport that Lithuania used to do well at at the Olympics in the immediate aftermath of the fall of the Soviet Union. I appreciate the skill involved in a shooting guard going to the rim, but I've only known a couple of sports fans that ever followed basketball, and I found it a bit ridiculous that possibly the greatest ever basketball team (ie the mid-90s Chicago Bulls team that only lost a handful of games in an NBA season) included Dennis Rodman and Luc Longley in  their starting five. I don't see either of those guys as being particularly skillful. Tall and determined, yes. But not skillful.

Ice Hockey seems to be quite exciting, and from what I've read about Wayne Gretzky he was one of the greatest and most visionary sportspeople ever to grace any sporting venue. Statistically, he was only half a standard deviation or so behind Bradman*. He was even statistically on around a  par with Pele. I would have liked to play some ice hockey when I was younger. But sadly, there are not many places in the world where the lakes freeze over in the winter.

*Sir Donald Bradman lost the best years of his career to WWII.

---------------

Here's a few graphs and articles showing just how good Bradman and Gretzky were:

Gretzky:

http://pappubahry.blogspot.com.au/2008/01/bradman-v-gretzky-v-orr.ht ml

Bradman:

qph.cf.quoracdn.net


http://www.flickr.com/photos/75905404@N00/8462554263/in/photostream
 
2013-03-30 08:59:43 AM  
PS Also used to enjoy watching Joe Montana play when I lived in the US during the '80s.
 
2013-03-30 03:14:43 PM  

Trapper439: included Dennis Rodman and Luc Longley in  their starting five. I don't see either of those guys as being particularly skillful. Tall and determined, yes. But not skillful.


Rodman is considered one of the best defenders of all time, and some say the best rebounder ever. To say he wasn't skillful and his height was his only skill is kind of asinine. Plenty of other people have been his height and they don't have his reputation.
 
2013-03-30 03:16:04 PM  
He was actually small for his position, he's the same height as Kobe.
 
2013-03-30 05:13:38 PM  

TheJoe03: Trapper439: Nah, just giving the "U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! We're #1!" crowd that show up in every thread about non-US sports the ridicule they so richly deserve.

Honest question, do Europeans (and Australians I guess) treat basketball and ice hockey the way Americans treat soccer? Those are the two North American sports that have garnered a presence in Europe on the level soccer has here, so does Euro patriotism lead to soccer fans ignorantly hating on these foreign sports?


Nobody cares. Seriously, basketball and ice hockey aren't even on the radar here.

Soccer is far more popular in the US than any American sport is here. That's why the soccer trolls are so vocal I think - they feel threatened.
 
2013-03-30 05:29:35 PM  

brapbrapbrap: Nobody cares. Seriously, basketball and ice hockey aren't even on the radar here.


Only in the UK, you guys have the worst basketball and hockey team in Europe. It seems the British are the most resistant to our sports, even the French have a growing basketball interest and the Russians like both. It's why I'm 100% against London getting an NFL team, it's the one European country that is totally resistant to our sports.

Anyways I'm not discounting the British view on hoops and hockey but I'm well aware that many nations takes those sports very seriously. In places like Turkey or Serbia basketball is a strong 2nd sport. In places like Russia or Sweden the same can be said for hockey. Both seem to be growing in general, so I truly do see them as our soccer in that sense.
 
2013-03-31 07:09:53 AM  

TheJoe03: Trapper439: included Dennis Rodman and Luc Longley in  their starting five. I don't see either of those guys as being particularly skillful. Tall and determined, yes. But not skillful.

Rodman is considered one of the best defenders of all time, and some say the best rebounder ever. To say he wasn't skillful and his height was his only skill is kind of asinine. Plenty of other people have been his height and they don't have his reputation.


I'm well aware that Rodman was a great defender and rebounder. I'm just saying that I put that down to his awesome athletic and mental attributes, rather than freakish hand-eye coordination and technical skill (eg his team mates Jordan and Pippen). When it's all said and done, rebounding is just catching a ball, and defense is just about applying yourself fully. To put it another way, I'm pretty sure he and Luc Longley would have gotten their asses handed to them when the Bulls starting five went on golf outings.
 
2013-03-31 07:32:43 AM  

Trapper439: When it's all said and done, rebounding is just catching a ball, and defense is just about applying yourself fully.


/facepalm
 
2013-03-31 08:15:14 AM  

TheJoe03: Trapper439: When it's all said and done, rebounding is just catching a ball, and defense is just about applying yourself fully.

/facepalm


Yeah, you American sports fans seem to define "skill" differently to the rest of the world. Like I said, Rodman was an incredibly tenacious player with the stamina and determination to thwart his opponents. I'm not claiming that that isn't a wonderful thing.

But "skill" is a different thing altogether. "Skill" is a VVS Laxman cover drive, or a Sinisa Mihajlovic free-kick. I'm not saying that the likes of Dennis Rodman and Jerry Rice weren't great at what they did, but ultimately it was just about catching a ball. If you gave the average 12yo the body of Deion Sanders he could catch a ball just as well as "Neon Deion".

Athleticism =/= Skill.

Seems that US sports reward Athleticism (often artificially enhanced) over Skill to the point where many US sports fans like you can't even recognize the difference. To put it in terms of American sports: Mickey Mantle>Mark McGwire.

I pity you.
 
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