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(NBC News)   Humans can be homosexual, heterosexual or bisexual. But God, in His wisdom, created an organism that is heptosexual. So what gender are their offspring? Well, it's complicated   (cosmiclog.nbcnews.com) divider line 45
    More: Interesting, microorganisms, cell lines, asexual reproduction, microbes, Cosmic Log, Alan Boyle, genomes, professor emeritus  
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4742 clicks; posted to Geek » on 27 Mar 2013 at 2:09 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-27 12:11:00 AM  
dl.dropbox.com
 
2013-03-27 01:11:00 AM  
They aren't allowed to marry, right?
 
2013-03-27 01:17:31 AM  
Who knew that Earth had Jotoki...
 
2013-03-27 02:24:30 AM  
Sweet. Last I'd heard humans have five sexes, so we really aren't THAT far behind.

Genders, now that would be pretty difficult to count.
 
2013-03-27 02:24:35 AM  
God did that huh?

I'll bet he did it just so he and I could laugh at the dumbass that's going to post stuff in this thread about how the evidence for evolution is bogus and is the product of scientific hocus-pocus.

Yay God! There is a you! And this is your way of bouncing me on your knee!
 
2013-03-27 02:24:58 AM  

hubiestubert: Who knew that Earth had Jotoki...


Here in secret, spying for the ratcats.
 
2013-03-27 02:37:05 AM  

The Snow Dog: I'll bet he did it just so he and I could laugh at the dumbass that's going to post stuff in this thread about how the evidence for evolution is bogus and is the product of scientific hocus-pocus.


Nah, but He no doubt foresaw the dumbass who is going to use this stuff to bash Him with instead.
Nothing anti-evolution in The Bible, just been people who misused The Bible....like always.
 
2013-03-27 02:45:56 AM  
Okay, fark hot shots, what is the smallest number of pairs that Noah had to have had on his ark in order for there to be a mating pair of each kind?
 
2013-03-27 02:51:18 AM  
Wow, what an epic failure to read the article.  TFA is about reproduction, not sexual preference.  All humans can only reproduce by mating with the opposite sex, regardless of their recreational preference.  The organism in TFA just happens to have several different combinations of opposite sexes, all of which produce offspring.
 
2013-03-27 02:51:32 AM  

Peki: Sweet. Last I'd heard humans have five sexes, so we really aren't THAT far behind.

Genders, now that would be pretty difficult to count.


Can someone link a primer for this?  I keep hearing humans have all these different sexes (which I understand to be breeding type/who you want to fark), but haven't found a decent explanation.  I understand hetero, homo, bi, and asexual, but what are the others?  What is the practical difference between a carrier of XX genes who self-identifies as male and wants to fark females, and a lesbian?  Does this land more into sociological and psychological territory (i.e. ways you identify yourself and your identity within groups) not necessarily biological (i.e. the imperative to procreate, your genetic sex)?
 
2013-03-27 03:14:00 AM  

Duck_of_Doom: Peki: Sweet. Last I'd heard humans have five sexes, so we really aren't THAT far behind.

Genders, now that would be pretty difficult to count.

Can someone link a primer for this?  I keep hearing humans have all these different sexes (which I understand to be breeding type/who you want to fark), but haven't found a decent explanation.  I understand hetero, homo, bi, and asexual, but what are the others?  What is the practical difference between a carrier of XX genes who self-identifies as male and wants to fark females, and a lesbian?  Does this land more into sociological and psychological territory (i.e. ways you identify yourself and your identity within groups) not necessarily biological (i.e. the imperative to procreate, your genetic sex)?


The difference between a transgendered woman who is a lesbian and a non-trans lesbian seems rather obvious to me. Do you mean the difference between a transsexual woman? I mean, there are at elast 2 kinds of trans. the difficulty with this conversation is that the m/f dichotomy can't be defined by genes or dangly body bits, and so our conversation is rather limited until we agree to create english literature and arts that gives us a vocabulary. Sucha  vocabulary does exist, but in small, very isolated quantities. until we access it, our conversation ends up going in circles. but of course, the people who live with these experiences of their own sexuality are often separated from the sort of stories they would identify with and build upon...so it is a slow process.

So to answer you paragraph, yes, that's exactly what we need to ask because yes, we don't have a very rich wealth of poetry, stories, music, movies, and visual art to draw on.
 
2013-03-27 03:16:37 AM  
I don't understand any of the references in this thread. What piece of media (movie, TV show, novel, comic, etc.) have I not yet seen, so that I may know what the hell you're talking about?
 
2013-03-27 03:36:20 AM  
m.static.newsvine.com
RELAX
it's just Tetrahymena thermophila
 
2013-03-27 03:44:51 AM  
Humans can only procreate with the opposite sex, however. They can and do have sex with members of the same sex, as well as many different animals, but not for procreative purposes.
 
2013-03-27 03:52:43 AM  
Only three options? Tell it to the QUILTBAG folks.
 
2013-03-27 04:06:37 AM  
nobodygoeshere.com
 
2013-03-27 04:16:00 AM  
i48.tinypic.com
 
2013-03-27 04:25:15 AM  
Bennie Crabtree:
The difference between a transgendered woman who is a lesbian and a non-trans lesbian seems rather obvious to me. Do you mean the difference between a transsexual woman? I mean, there are at elast 2 kinds of trans.

For that example, a biological woman (XX) who does not gender reassign, but identifies as "male" in personality and behavior, whose sexual partner preference is women.  FWIW, what you said about vocabulary is what I was asking for - where can we confused ones find the proper vocabulary?  Or does all of this already exist, and if so, where can people like me, confused when people say there are a myriad of genders, go to understand? Wikipedia doesn't help very much.  A frame to start understanding what we're even talking about, and if there is overlap in categories creating unneeded complexity.

the difficulty with this conversation is that the m/f dichotomy can't be defined by genes or dangly body bits, and so our conversation is rather limited until we agree to create english literature and arts that gives us a vocabulary.

That's why, maybe, it would be better to delineate based on biology, sociology, psychology.  Biologically - genetically - you are one sex or another (using the general "you" here).  You are either XX or XY.  No amount of hormone treatment or surgery will change that fundamental part of your makeup.  Perhaps in the future we can do gene therapy to switch.  From there, it can branch to what you identify with socially or psychologically.  This can include sexuality, gender stereotype, gender self-identification, even go into trans issues and assignment.  Some of these may be psychological, and not in need of a separate biological category.  Or, the terminology is unclear.

This makes my head spin.  I have no dog in this race, I just want to understand.  And to be honest, some of it does sound like "over-complication in order to be 'special' wankery" - so I'd love to learn in order to purge that prejudice.

/if I like guys with stereotypically feminine features, does that make me gyneromantic heterosexual?
//moreover, does it matter?
 
2013-03-27 04:43:22 AM  

serial_crusher: [dl.dropbox.com image 317x314]


Flaming Hot Chili Peppers?
 
2013-03-27 04:52:04 AM  
I await people on Tumblr claiming that their otherkin headmate is also a heptosexual.
 
2013-03-27 05:01:48 AM  

Duck_of_Doom: You are either XX or XY. No amount of hormone treatment or surgery will change that fundamental part of your makeup. Perhaps in the future we can do gene therapy to switch.


Not quite.  There are a number of genetic abnormalities that can result in extra chromosomes or in genes on a chromosome expressing poorly / not at all.  Then you have the issue of genes simply being an instruction manual on how development should occur.  How development actually happens is prone to errors and external environmental factors.

Having a retrovirus disable the SRY gene in a postpubescent XY male really isn't going to do much, other than maybe sterility.  In fact, it isn't until you're back to in utero that it'd really make a difference.  So future treatments would be fairly invasive, forcing the body to go through another development phase with a different set of instructions.  Probably talking about tech that is on par with having the body regrow limbs. The real question will be what they'll try to redevelop: will it be the brain, or the rest of the body?
 
2013-03-27 05:42:32 AM  
This could get confusing at orgies.
 
2013-03-27 05:54:56 AM  
Yo dawg, I heard you like penis, so I put my penis in your penis so you can have a penis while using it as a vagina for my penis!
 
2013-03-27 06:15:53 AM  
SubbyHumans can be homosexual, heterosexual or bisexual.

No love for the asexuals, subby?
 
2013-03-27 06:36:55 AM  

Duck_of_Doom: You are either XX or XY.


Even if you limit your scope to humans and to "chromosomally" instead of the broader "biologically" that's not true. There are a number of different ways to get a set of sex chromosomes other than XX or XY. And in the broader biological sense there are bunch of ways that XY might not result in the development of all the bits you'd expect in a "male".

I'd guess that you feel like there's some underlying basis to discrete -- and in particular binary -- gender. Which is not an unreasonable assumption; there are many species with two genders, and we have an insane amount of social infrastructure (including language itself and laws) built around that understanding. But while two genders is a common number -- because that number enforces sexual reproduction -- there's no such requirement. Flowering plants, for example, are typically have only one gender but can reproduce sexually, and the organism from the article has seven genders and can reproduce both sexually and asexually depending on its environment. There is no "natural" number of physiological genders, and things are only more complicated for humans because of the social aspects we associate with gender.

With that in mind, consider your original query about the "proper vocabulary". I'd argue that you shouldn't be looking for a way to classify the social or physiological concepts of gender into a small set of categories. Instead think of it like hair color -- any classification system hoping to accurately model hair color would be based on some sort of continuously variable scale, not on discrete classifications. You can put people into categories like "blonde" or "male", but that discrete system captures a very small subset of the variation that exists in reality and will therefore require ambiguous classifications.
 
2013-03-27 06:40:36 AM  
Are they Flouwen?

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-03-27 06:50:03 AM  

HotWingAgenda: Wow, what an epic failure to read the article.  TFA is about reproduction, not sexual preference.  All humans can only reproduce by mating with the opposite sex, regardless of their recreational preference.  The organism in TFA just happens to have several different combinations of opposite sexes, all of which produce offspring.


The term would be complementary rather then opposite sexes, as something with seven options does not have pairs.
 
2013-03-27 07:22:09 AM  
Duck_of_Doom:

That's why, maybe, it would be better to delineate based on biology, sociology, psychology.  Biologically - genetically - you are one sex or another (using the general "you" here).  You are either XX or XY.  No amount of hormone treatment or surgery will change that fundamental part of your makeup.


Not entirely correct with the either or thing strictly biologically speaking either.  There are XX, XY, and then there are variants XXY and XYY.  On top of that there are people who have two entirely different sets of nuclear DNA.  They are called chimeras and are basically fused twins that don't look like two people.  In most cases the person will never know but there are more extreme cases where the different sets of nuclear dna express different complexions, hair color, or eye color and the most extreme cases the two sets of DNA are different sexes.
 
2013-03-27 07:25:37 AM  

Smoking GNU: This could get confusing at orgies.


It also represents a serious technological hurdle for categorized porn sites.
 
2013-03-27 07:34:43 AM  
If there were five other sexes out there, I would never farking sleep.
 
2013-03-27 07:42:00 AM  
Heptosexual?  How prudish

www.naturephoto-cz.com
8 sex cells, 29 seperate sex controlling genes, 500+ possible genders
 
2013-03-27 10:23:13 AM  

Boojum2k: hubiestubert: Who knew that Earth had Jotoki...

Here in secret, spying for the ratcats.



Scream and leap, biatches. Scream and leap.
 
2013-03-27 10:24:56 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Are they Flouwen?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 200x302]



Tetrahymena don't surf!

/neither does Charlie
 
2013-03-27 10:40:40 AM  
Almost as perverted as mollusks:

s3.vidimg02.popscreen.com
 
2013-03-27 11:13:14 AM  
Nobody read the article.

These are relatives to our childhood friend paramecium. These single celled eukaryotes only reproduce asexually. They will recombine their own DNA by way of forming a pilus and exchanging chunks of DNA between two cells. This type of organism has seven varieties which will not form a pilus between like types. This prevents recombination between sibling cells and is useful for creating a greater variety future asexually produced cells from both 'parents'. What is interesting is that seven varieties are not directly inherited, but are derivative of the species.
 
2013-03-27 11:28:42 AM  

GreatGlavinsGhost: Okay, fark hot shots, what is the smallest number of pairs that Noah had to have had on his ark in order for there to be a mating pair of each kind?


21 pairs, I think. I presume Noah wants them to remain monogamous?
 
2013-03-27 11:42:40 AM  
Are they Flouwen?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 200x302]


Another author has a species where you can count the number parents an individual had, because it was equal to the number of body segments, "... which varied from 3 to 25 or more."
 
2013-03-27 11:51:36 AM  

natazha: Are they Flouwen?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 200x302]

Another author has a species where you can count the number parents an individual had, because it was equal to the number of body segments, "... which varied from 3 to 25 or more."


Did having more parents count as having higher status in their society? Were their advantages to having more parents/segments?
 
2013-03-27 01:13:23 PM  

Arthur Jumbles: Subby:  Humans can be homosexual, heterosexual or bisexual.

No love for the asexuals, subby?


Came in to say this. Subby's alienating a lot of Farkers.

/Can't get no lovin' down in mama's basement.
 
2013-03-27 01:46:40 PM  

Arthur Jumbles: Subby:  Humans can be homosexual, heterosexual or bisexual.

No love for the asexuals, subby?


Isn't that kinda the definition? We don't want no lovin's?
 
2013-03-27 03:45:11 PM  
mmm sexual flavors....
 
2013-03-27 03:57:06 PM  

The Snow Dog: God did that huh?

I'll bet he did it just so he and I could laugh at the dumbass that's going to post stuff in this thread about how the evidence for evolution is bogus and is the product of scientific hocus-pocus.

Yay God! There is a you! And this is your way of bouncing me on your knee!


Derp, indeed.
 
2013-03-28 05:07:32 PM  
sci-ence.org
 
2013-03-29 12:37:09 AM  

Duck_of_Doom: Peki: Sweet. Last I'd heard humans have five sexes, so we really aren't THAT far behind.

Genders, now that would be pretty difficult to count.

Can someone link a primer for this?  I keep hearing humans have all these different sexes (which I understand to be breeding type/who you want to fark), but haven't found a decent explanation.  I understand hetero, homo, bi, and asexual, but what are the others?  What is the practical difference between a carrier of XX genes who self-identifies as male and wants to fark females, and a lesbian?  Does this land more into sociological and psychological territory (i.e. ways you identify yourself and your identity within groups) not necessarily biological (i.e. the imperative to procreate, your genetic sex)?


First off:
Gender = what's between your ears (your mind, your behavior, how you dress, etc.)
Sex = what's between your legs
Sexual orientation = who you like to oogle/fark

Gender includes terms like man, woman, tomboy, broad, lady, stud, whore, etc. They describe a set of acceptable roles, behaviors, dress, etc., that people with that label are allowed to engaged in. There are social consequences if you step outside the allowed behaviors (think of a guy who wants to join the cheerleading squad).
Sex includes terms like male, female. See below for the other labels. This is the physical expression of your chromosomes.
Sex orientation includes terms like asexual, disjunctive and conjuctive bisexuals, homosexual, heterosexual, pansexual, trysexual ("I'll try anything"), etc. Alfred Kinsey produced a now-famous questionnaire that resulted in a score between 1 to 5--1 being strictly heterosexual, 5 being strictly homosexual. The scale only considered current behavior though, and updates to the questionnaire now include things like prior and preferred behavior, dreams/fantasies, and more than just the gay/straight labelling.

Here's the difference in your example: A lesbian is perfectly happy being female, and she likes to fark other females. The XX carrier likes to fark other females, but feels his body isn't right, like he doesn't have the right parts. Wouldn't you feel a little weird if suddenly you were male and woke up one day and your cock was missing? Or a female, and your boobs suddenly weren't there? For trans people, they were born feeling like that. It's very uncomfortable.

Google Anne Fausto-Sterling. She wrote a piece about how there are essentially five sexes of humans: your typical male/female, and then three variants on the hermaphrodite, the merm, herm, and ferm. The herm, which is a true hermaphrodite, either XY or XX, having one testicle, one ovary (or some gonad-like organ in the appropriate place), and ambiguous genitalia--think overly big clit, really tiny dick, unsure if there is/isn't a hole. Merms are male pseudohermaphrodites, XY, possessing testes, but ambiguous genitalia, usually in the form of what's termed in the medical community as a "micropenis." Folds of skin where labia might occur in a female may also be present in place of the scrotum. Ferms are the opposite, female pseudohermaphrodites, XX, possessing ovaries, and ambiguous genitalia, usually being the "macroclit", may or may not be a vaginal opening, and the uterus, vaginal, and fallopian tubes may be incompletely developed or absent entirely.

You could possibly add other sexes, as there are other chromosomal possibilities, including Turner's Syndrome (XO, in which the second chromosome is missing--the person appears female, but the reproductive organs are incomplete or missing, as far as I know they are always sterile) and Klinefelter's Syndrome (XXY, only affects males, develop female secondary sex characteristics like boobs, various degrees of severity, usually sterile).

As far as who wants what body (also known as the "T" in the alphabet soup--LGBTQPRSTUVWXYZ):
Transsexual - Usually post-op or "in transition" (meaning in the process of changing sexes, but not genders), either M2F or F2M
Transvestite - Someone who gets a kick out of wearing the clothing of the opposite gender (USUALLY the opposite sex, but not always)
Transgendered - Someone who feels that their sex (body) and gender (mind) don't match
Cross-dresser - Similar to a transvestite, but without the sexual kick. Usually more interested in "passing" (being perceived as the opposite sex) as opposed to getting off. Likes engaging in typical roles associated with the gender they are crossing to (i.e. putting on a dress and apron and doing housework). Some cross-dressers are transgendered, but they don't all identify that way. I would technically consider all pre-op transsexuals to be cross-dressing, but I'm not sure how they would identify. If you haven't figured it out yet, how you perceive yourself and how others perceive you is a major theme in the LGBTQ community.

There are LOTS of other terms for gender: gender queer, tomboy, boi, queer, broad, stud, daddy, queen, metro, etc. . . Which is why I said there are way too many to count.

The field for this is generally sociology, but there is a lot of overlap with the other fields, especially biology, psychology, and philosophy, which is why it's generally grouped under either Women's Studies departments or Gender/Queer Studies at universities. And yes, there are Masculine Studies for the guys as well.

Any other questions?

/minored in Women's Studies, have a particular fondness for human sexuality fun stuff
 
2013-03-30 05:16:17 PM  

Mentat: They aren't allowed to marry, right?


you gotta keep 'em seperated.
 
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