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(Ars Technica)   Who keep the metric system down? Who keeps tax self-filing around? Intuit and Grover Norquist, "We do, we do"   (arstechnica.com) divider line 153
    More: Asinine, TurboTax, Grover Norquist, Economic Recovery Advisory Board, Zoe Lofgren, House majority leaders, Intuit, Brookings' William Gale, Austan Goolsbee  
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3441 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Mar 2013 at 9:46 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-26 06:35:01 PM  
s21.postimg.org
 
2013-03-26 06:45:49 PM  
In 2005, Norquist testified...that getting an official-looking "bill" from the IRS could be "extremely intimidating, particularly for seniors, low-income and non-English speaking citizens."

And the drawbacks?

/Remember, this is Bush he was talking to.
 
2013-03-26 07:51:45 PM  
I am not feeling this headline

Its sort of funny, but it is missing something.

I cant put my finger on it. Maybe someone can?
 
2013-03-26 09:19:42 PM  
I got back almost $4k in refunds between the state and fed.  Even so, it took me over an hour to prepare my taxes, a stack of papers listed around me, and I was completely pissed off at humanity by the end.
 
2013-03-26 09:48:04 PM  
"Because f*ck you, there's money to be made."
 
2013-03-26 09:50:38 PM  
You know, there really a lot of things we don't do just to prop up industries that wouldn't exist if we did things differently.
 
2013-03-26 09:51:43 PM  
I filed my fed and state taxes online, electronically for free with freefillableforms.com. What am I missing?
 
2013-03-26 09:52:18 PM  
I've always thought Federal government should have to release tax software every year and said software must be open source.  Make it a law the deadline for filing must always be at least 8 months after the source code is released (so people have time to read the code) and go from there.  We can limit the federal government's burden by making it only cover the normal forms, if you want to pull some really complex business stuff, you still have to go get an accountant or buy third party software.
 
2013-03-26 09:53:05 PM  
Er, freefilefillableforms.com.
 
m00
2013-03-26 09:59:31 PM  
what a jackass Grover Norquist  is. The only reason he is against getting a bill from the government is that it makes paying taxes convenient and easy. He doesnt want paying taxes to be convenient and easy, because then less people would be against taxes.

I have to tell you. I've lived in norway. you get a card from the government "you owe X, it has been automatically deducted from your paycheck this whole time. would you like to (a) do nothing or (b) dispute that X was the right amount"

Basically you do nothing and pay your taxes, but I think you're supposed to send the card in anyway. I don't remember. I did it in a day with the HR person from. I just remember it being incredibly painless. I was paying 40% income tax tho... but its a lot less painful than paying taxes in the US just on hassle alone. Thats what Norquist fears.
 
2013-03-26 10:00:00 PM  

cman: I am not feeling this headline

Its sort of funny, but it is missing something.

I cant put my finger on it. Maybe someone can?


It's very hard to get "tax self-filing around" to sound right in the context of the song, the actual story has nothing to do with the metric system, and "Intuit and Grover Norquist, " doesn't belong in there at all.
 
2013-03-26 10:00:09 PM  

enry: I got back almost $4k in refunds between the state and fed.  Even so, it took me over an hour to prepare my taxes, a stack of papers listed around me, and I was completely pissed off at humanity by the end.


I had to help someone do a treaty based tax return (F8833).  Part 5 of that states "Please explain why the treaty applies", there is then 2/3s of a page for you to write a free form essay.  I just stared at this thinking "Only the federal farking government would make me explain their own damn treaties to them".  I walked away from that one with hopes the IRS burns to the ground.
 
2013-03-26 10:01:11 PM  
I pay an accountant lots of money for my business stuff, it would take me to long and the time I would waste doing it myself I could pay my acct to do it instead.

Kinda like paying someone else to lay my back paver stone patio.

But for ppl with a simple w-2, that's like the easiest thing in the world
 
2013-03-26 10:01:53 PM  
The problem isn't Norquist or Intuit. The problem is congress.
 
2013-03-26 10:02:18 PM  

enry: I got back almost $4k in refunds between the state and fed.  Even so, it took me over an hour to prepare my taxes, a stack of papers listed around me, and I was completely pissed off at humanity by the end.


So you were pissed to be paid at the rate of $4000/hour? I'd sure like to have your problems.

/okay, so it was already your money...
 
2013-03-26 10:04:22 PM  
KEEP GOVERNMENT IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR!!
 
2013-03-26 10:06:26 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-26 10:08:30 PM  
sponsors a "STOP IRS TAKEOVER" campaign

HOW DARE THE GOVERNMENT TAKE OVER THE IRS!!!
 
2013-03-26 10:11:44 PM  

m00: what a jackass Grover Norquist  is. The only reason he is against getting a bill from the government is that it makes paying taxes convenient and easy. He doesnt want paying taxes to be convenient and easy, because then less people would be against taxes.

I have to tell you. I've lived in norway. you get a card from the government "you owe X, it has been automatically deducted from your paycheck this whole time. would you like to (a) do nothing or (b) dispute that X was the right amount"

Basically you do nothing and pay your taxes, but I think you're supposed to send the card in anyway. I don't remember. I did it in a day with the HR person from. I just remember it being incredibly painless. I was paying 40% income tax tho... but its a lot less painful than paying taxes in the US just on hassle alone. Thats what Norquist fears.


Norway also makes everyone's income and taxes public information and publishes it on the internet. So yay?
 
2013-03-26 10:14:21 PM  
God dammit, I keep forgetting to do my taxes.  Could I just set up a direct withdrawl with the IRS?  Tell me how much you need and then just farking take it a few days later.
 
2013-03-26 10:14:23 PM  

weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 640x606]


Some of those things have good arguments, some don't.  Day/month/year, for instance, is awful.  It's not sortable.  Your arbitrary pyramid doesn't change that.
 
m00
2013-03-26 10:18:23 PM  

Tax Boy: m00: what a jackass Grover Norquist  is. The only reason he is against getting a bill from the government is that it makes paying taxes convenient and easy. He doesnt want paying taxes to be convenient and easy, because then less people would be against taxes.

I have to tell you. I've lived in norway. you get a card from the government "you owe X, it has been automatically deducted from your paycheck this whole time. would you like to (a) do nothing or (b) dispute that X was the right amount"

Basically you do nothing and pay your taxes, but I think you're supposed to send the card in anyway. I don't remember. I did it in a day with the HR person from. I just remember it being incredibly painless. I was paying 40% income tax tho... but its a lot less painful than paying taxes in the US just on hassle alone. Thats what Norquist fears.

Norway also makes everyone's income and taxes public information and publishes it on the internet. So yay?


Yeah, you can see what your boss makes. What the CEO of your company makes. It's a good thing.
 
2013-03-26 10:19:20 PM  

bhcompy: weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 640x606]

Some of those things have good arguments, some don't.  Day/month/year, for instance, is awful.  It's not sortable.  Your arbitrary pyramid doesn't change that.


Y-m-d is the only format that makes sense.
 
2013-03-26 10:21:13 PM  
I don't trust the government to do it right. I mean, look how inefficient tax filing is right now! With such an overly complex system, it's hard to think they'd get something right. Also, I am trolling.
 
2013-03-26 10:21:56 PM  

weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 640x606]


DD/MM/YYYY is the most useless shiat ever.  But the rest I agree with.
 
2013-03-26 10:27:22 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: I filed my fed and state taxes online, electronically for free with freefillableforms.com. What am I missing?


I know I know! Is it "the proper URL to the web site"?
 
2013-03-26 10:27:57 PM  

poughdrew: weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 640x606]

DD/MM/YYYY is the most useless shiat ever.  But the rest I agree with.


ISO 8601 or GTFO.
 
2013-03-26 10:30:51 PM  

Tax Boy: m00: what a jackass Grover Norquist  is. The only reason he is against getting a bill from the government is that it makes paying taxes convenient and easy. He doesnt want paying taxes to be convenient and easy, because then less people would be against taxes.

I have to tell you. I've lived in norway. you get a card from the government "you owe X, it has been automatically deducted from your paycheck this whole time. would you like to (a) do nothing or (b) dispute that X was the right amount"

Basically you do nothing and pay your taxes, but I think you're supposed to send the card in anyway. I don't remember. I did it in a day with the HR person from. I just remember it being incredibly painless. I was paying 40% income tax tho... but its a lot less painful than paying taxes in the US just on hassle alone. Thats what Norquist fears.

Norway also makes everyone's income and taxes public information and publishes it on the internet. So yay?


There's a Romney joke in there somewhere.
 
2013-03-26 10:36:09 PM  

clkeagle: enry: I got back almost $4k in refunds between the state and fed.  Even so, it took me over an hour to prepare my taxes, a stack of papers listed around me, and I was completely pissed off at humanity by the end.

So you were pissed to be paid at the rate of $4000/hour? I'd sure like to have your problems.

/okay, so it was already your money...


I fully admit that it's a stupid feeling after getting that much back. It just felt like a gauntlet after the endless questions and looking for forms and making sure they were entered properly.

/adjusted my withholding for this year
 
2013-03-26 10:37:38 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: bhcompy: weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 640x606]

Some of those things have good arguments, some don't.  Day/month/year, for instance, is awful.  It's not sortable.  Your arbitrary pyramid doesn't change that.

Y-m-d is the only format that makes sense.


ha-ha-guy: poughdrew: weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 640x606]

DD/MM/YYYY is the most useless shiat ever.  But the rest I agree with.

ISO 8601 or GTFO.


Now, now. The real reason that the USA has not switched and likely never will switch to the metric system is because, if we did, we'd have to change all our card games.

Why? ⇒ Because there are only ten cards in a dekacards.
 
2013-03-26 10:38:42 PM  
I have found that watching this on Unimas is much more exciting than the ESPN coverage for some reason.

Can't quite figure out why.
 
2013-03-26 10:41:17 PM  

Mrtraveler01: I have found that watching this on Unimas is much more exciting than the ESPN coverage for some reason.

Can't quite figure out why.


Crap, wrong thread.
 
2013-03-26 10:47:46 PM  
Who holds back the electric car?
Who made Joe Wurzelbacher...a STAR?
 
2013-03-26 10:58:38 PM  

m00: what a jackass Grover Norquist  is. The only reason he is against getting a bill from the government is that it makes paying taxes convenient and easy. He doesnt want paying taxes to be convenient and easy, because then less people would be against taxes.

I have to tell you. I've lived in norway. you get a card from the government "you owe X, it has been automatically deducted from your paycheck this whole time. would you like to (a) do nothing or (b) dispute that X was the right amount"

Basically you do nothing and pay your taxes, but I think you're supposed to send the card in anyway. I don't remember. I did it in a day with the HR person from. I just remember it being incredibly painless. I was paying 40% income tax tho... but its a lot less painful than paying taxes in the US just on hassle alone. Thats what Norquist fears.


Same in the UK. Probably 90% of the population is on PAYE. Your employer calculates the tax rate and deducts it from you pay and sends it straight to the government. What you get in your paycheck is yours to keep. Done. Apart from self employed who have to do a return the only people who need to do anything are if you own lots of shares or other income.
 
2013-03-26 11:01:41 PM  
Yeah, that would be nice but unfortunately experience has taught me that Merrill Lynch is too incompetent to send the right information to the IRS, so I doubt I'll ever get to use a pre-filled return.
 
2013-03-26 11:04:02 PM  

ha-ha-guy: poughdrew: weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 640x606]

DD/MM/YYYY is the most useless shiat ever.  But the rest I agree with.

ISO 8601 or GTFO.


True story: As a kid I thought I invented ISO 8601. I needed a way to sort dates in a craptastic database that didn't have a date type, but I realized I could quickly sort dates as integers by formatting the ints as YYYYMMDD.

Okay, that's probably not something I should admit about my childhood.
 
2013-03-26 11:05:31 PM  
The majority of people in the UK have never even seen a tax return.

If you're a normal employee (most people) didn't do any share trading this year (most people) and have no unusual capital gains (most people, most years) it's all entirely automatic through the PAYG system.

Your system is so Byzantine because your government legislats through the tax code and deductions, because you're all flaming mad.


It's like listing prices in shops without tax included. YOU ARE ALL MAD.
 
2013-03-26 11:09:16 PM  

m00: what a jackass Grover Norquist  is. The only reason he is against getting a bill from the government is that it makes paying taxes convenient and easy. He doesnt want paying taxes to be convenient and easy, because then less people would be against taxes.

I have to tell you. I've lived in norway. you get a card from the government "you owe X, it has been automatically deducted from your paycheck this whole time. would you like to (a) do nothing or (b) dispute that X was the right amount"

Basically you do nothing and pay your taxes, but I think you're supposed to send the card in anyway. I don't remember. I did it in a day with the HR person from. I just remember it being incredibly painless. I was paying 40% income tax tho... but its a lot less painful than paying taxes in the US just on hassle alone. Thats what Norquist fears.


Do they have all the goofy complicated hoops and rules though?  Deductions, child tax credits, capital gains, short term stock sales, etc etc?
Because what you're talking about doesn't sound a whole lot different than just filing a 1040EZ in the US, which works for people who only get a single paycheck and don't have any adjustments.  Man, I miss the days when I could do that.
 
2013-03-26 11:12:42 PM  

Bungles: It's like listing prices in shops without tax included. YOU ARE ALL MAD.


Well, part of that is competition.  I live on a county line with a 1.5% sales tax difference between the counties.  Not a huge deal for a box of cereal, but it adds up and people price hunt like mad in this climate.  That's not getting in to buying from other states on the internet.
 
2013-03-26 11:16:45 PM  

bhcompy: Bungles: It's like listing prices in shops without tax included. YOU ARE ALL MAD.

Well, part of that is competition.  I live on a county line with a 1.5% sales tax difference between the counties.  Not a huge deal for a box of cereal, but it adds up and people price hunt like mad in this climate.  That's not getting in to buying from other states on the internet.


Well, I could argue that your entire state system only made sense when people never travelled more than  100 miles from their homes, so states were de facto nations, and so a non-national sales tax made sense and isn't an enormous waste of everyone's time and results in a massive duplication of bureaucracy, but I'm sure someone will scream "CONSTITUTION !!" at me.
 
2013-03-26 11:20:18 PM  

Bungles: bhcompy: Bungles: It's like listing prices in shops without tax included. YOU ARE ALL MAD.

Well, part of that is competition.  I live on a county line with a 1.5% sales tax difference between the counties.  Not a huge deal for a box of cereal, but it adds up and people price hunt like mad in this climate.  That's not getting in to buying from other states on the internet.

Well, I could argue that your entire state system only made sense when people never travelled more than  100 miles from their homes, so states were de facto nations, and so a non-national sales tax made sense and isn't an enormous waste of everyone's time and results in a massive duplication of bureaucracy, but I'm sure someone will scream "CONSTITUTION !!" at me.


It's a scale issue.  You need municipal governments to handle municipal issues and they have to be funded from somewhere.  Property tax maybe?  Each level of government has the ability to tax in various ways.
 
2013-03-26 11:20:27 PM  

bhcompy: weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 640x606]

Some of those things have good arguments, some don't.  Day/month/year, for instance, is awful.  It's not sortable.  Your arbitrary pyramid doesn't change that.


Not sortable... how?
 
2013-03-26 11:22:56 PM  

ThePastafarian: bhcompy: weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 640x606]

Some of those things have good arguments, some don't.  Day/month/year, for instance, is awful.  It's not sortable.  Your arbitrary pyramid doesn't change that.

Not sortable... how?


I'm just trying to get my gogglebox around that too. DD/MM/YY makes sense. YYYY/MM/DD makes sense, for sorting.

I cannot fathom a benefit of MM/DD/YY
 
2013-03-26 11:25:34 PM  

Bungles: The majority of people in the UK have never even seen a tax return.

If you're a normal employee (most people) didn't do any share trading this year (most people) and have no unusual capital gains (most people, most years) it's all entirely automatic through the PAYG system.

Your system is so Byzantine because your government legislats through the tax code and deductions, because you're all flaming mad.


It's like listing prices in shops without tax included. YOU ARE ALL MAD.


Legislating through tax code not that terrible of an idea, at least in principle.  The approach recognizes that a capitalistic society is highly incentivized by money.  Manipulating tax rates helps establish value for beneficial behavior/resources that the market may not recognize (clean air, clean water, etc).

But yeah, we abuse the ever living shiat out of it.
 
2013-03-26 11:26:15 PM  

ThePastafarian: bhcompy: weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 640x606]

Some of those things have good arguments, some don't.  Day/month/year, for instance, is awful.  It's not sortable.  Your arbitrary pyramid doesn't change that.

Not sortable... how?


Basic left to right sort: 25/02/2013 and 01/10/2013.  The wrong date comes first.
 
2013-03-26 11:27:11 PM  

Bungles: ThePastafarian: bhcompy: weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 640x606]

Some of those things have good arguments, some don't.  Day/month/year, for instance, is awful.  It's not sortable.  Your arbitrary pyramid doesn't change that.

Not sortable... how?

I'm just trying to get my gogglebox around that too. DD/MM/YY makes sense. YYYY/MM/DD makes sense, for sorting.

I cannot fathom a benefit of MM/DD/YY


yyyy/mm/dd and mm/dd/yyyy both preserve standard sorting.  anything with days before months does not.
 
m00
2013-03-26 11:27:17 PM  

serial_crusher: Do they have all the goofy complicated hoops and rules though? Deductions, child tax credits, capital gains, short term stock sales, etc etc?
Because what you're talking about doesn't sound a whole lot different than just filing a 1040EZ in the US, which works for people who only get a single paycheck and don't have any adjustments. Man, I miss the days when I could do that


There's like 6 deductions or something I think in total, but im not an expert. Nothing complicated. They aren't retarded.
 
m00
2013-03-26 11:28:33 PM  

Bungles: Your system is so Byzantine because your government legislats through the tax code and deductions, because you're all flaming mad.


It's because our government wants a complicated tax code. Republicans want it so paying taxes are painful so they can say "ah-ha! taxes! boo!" and Democrats want it so, as you say, they can implement social policy via taxes.
 
2013-03-26 11:30:54 PM  

Bungles: bhcompy: Bungles: It's like listing prices in shops without tax included. YOU ARE ALL MAD.

Well, part of that is competition.  I live on a county line with a 1.5% sales tax difference between the counties.  Not a huge deal for a box of cereal, but it adds up and people price hunt like mad in this climate.  That's not getting in to buying from other states on the internet.

Well, I could argue that your entire state system only made sense when people never travelled more than  100 miles from their homes, so states were de facto nations, and so a non-national sales tax made sense and isn't an enormous waste of everyone's time and results in a massive duplication of bureaucracy, but I'm sure someone will scream "CONSTITUTION !!" at me.


What do these two buttons next to the " " do?
 
2013-03-26 11:30:57 PM  
So... you can thank Intuit for keeping the creeps at H&R Block from getting a line like "All tax returns must be filed by a certified tax preparer" inserted into some Apple Pie and Puppies legislation.
 
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