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(io9)   Joss Whedon's biggest setbacks. A lesson in how lacking total control over your project gives Hollywood the chance to fark up a completely great idea   (io9.com) divider line 120
    More: Cool, Joss Whedon, Waterworld, Lesson Learned, gills, lessons  
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7949 clicks; posted to Geek » on 26 Mar 2013 at 6:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-26 04:42:46 PM  
Or maybe his writing skills are only liked by a small but rabid fanbase
 
2013-03-26 04:55:59 PM  
Sounds like he's learned more than a few lessons from dealing with the Hollywood machine.  If only the same could be said of the inverse.
 
2013-03-26 04:56:01 PM  

Klippoklondike: Or maybe his writing skills are only liked by a small but rabid fanbase


That's a strange claim to make about the writer/director of a movie that took $207 million in three days. Of course Avengers had a huge build up, but it was the actual movie itself that made it such a huge hit and earned excellent reviews.

I think Whedon's problem is the perception he has. People who say "His dialogue is always the same!" when it patently isn't. That claim was everywhere before Dollhouse aired and then hose people went very quiet once it did air and the show was nothing like what they claimed it would be. He's also hugely respected in the business. Pixar raved about the work he did on Toy Story script, Sam Rami raves about him, Russell T Davies raved about him and credits Buffy with having a huge influence on Nu Who.
 
2013-03-26 04:56:25 PM  
A large number of Whedon's projects have suffered failures or setbacks of some form.  The problem with this clearly rests among everyone else, and in no way has the Whedon failed.  The blame cannot, simply cannot rest in the single component that links all of those projects together.  All glory to the Whedon, for he is forever perfect.
 
2013-03-26 04:57:34 PM  

MaxxLarge: Sounds like he's learned more than a few lessons from dealing with the Hollywood machine.  If only the same could be said of the inverse.


I'd love to know what the people who let/made him walk from Wonder Woman thought after seeing the success of Avengers?
 
2013-03-26 04:58:45 PM  

Flint Ironstag: I think Whedon's problem is the perception he has. People who say "His dialogue is always the same!" when it patently isn't.


They say the same thing about Aaron Sorkin...And in his case, they're more right than not.  Doesn't mean I don't still love his work. Just that I know I should expect a certain stylized rhythm, and that's fine. It's his brand.

See also: Smith, Kevin; Tarantino, Quentin; Mamet, David; etc.
 
2013-03-26 05:01:50 PM  

Flint Ironstag: I'd love to know what the people who let/made him walk from Wonder Woman thought after seeing the success of Avengers?


Well, money talks. I'm sure a shiatload of people who either rearranged his stuff or dismissed it entirely are pulling the "perhaps we were a bit hasty" pack-pedal now that it's too late. All it takes is for a movie that's true to the source material because of total visionary creative control to make a few billon dollars, and they start realizing they may have farked up somewhere.
 
2013-03-26 05:04:12 PM  

GAT_00: A large number of Whedon's projects have suffered failures or setbacks of some form.  The problem with this clearly rests among everyone else, and in no way has the Whedon failed.  The blame cannot, simply cannot rest in the single component that links all of those projects together.  All glory to the Whedon, for he is forever perfect.


If you watch some of his DVD commentaries you'll see he is very happy to admit to mistakes. And no one, even the most rabid fans, claim he is "perfect". But when a network takes a serialised show and airs the pilot last and the others out of order, pre empting most of those for baseball, then yes that does suggest the network is to blame. If your local movie theatre ran the reels of a movie in the wrong order you'd complain.

Buffy itself is a perfect example. Movie (Whedon had no creative control) failed. Tv Series (Whedon in charge) Hit.   And for those who I have seen claiming he comes out with "excuses to blame failure on" it is a fact that Whedon blamed the director for ruining the movie long before it was released. He didn't "jump on a bandwagon".
 
2013-03-26 05:04:53 PM  

MaxxLarge: Flint Ironstag: I think Whedon's problem is the perception he has. People who say "His dialogue is always the same!" when it patently isn't.

They say the same thing about Aaron Sorkin...And in his case, they're more right than not.  Doesn't mean I don't still love his work. Just that I know I should expect a certain stylized rhythm, and that's fine. It's his brand.

See also: Smith, Kevin; Tarantino, Quentin; Mamet, David; etc.


Anyone who knows Sorkin's work knows those common elements.  There is for example this video which could only have been put together by a Sorkin devotee.  But a Sorkin fan will be the first to point those out and criticize the weaknesses of his writing style.

You never see Whedon fanatics criticize him.  It's a farking religion.  Whedon can literally do no wrong.

Flint Ironstag: That's a strange claim to make about the writer/director of a movie that took $207 million in three days.


Anyone could have made that movie make that much money after the build up to it.  And that movie was much weaker for Whedon writing it.
 
2013-03-26 05:06:15 PM  
Meh. Every writer, director and producer in Hollywood could list great projects that got killed, rewritten, or otherwise mangled by writers, directors and producers.
 
2013-03-26 05:06:49 PM  

Flint Ironstag: GAT_00: A large number of Whedon's projects have suffered failures or setbacks of some form.  The problem with this clearly rests among everyone else, and in no way has the Whedon failed.  The blame cannot, simply cannot rest in the single component that links all of those projects together.  All glory to the Whedon, for he is forever perfect.

If you watch some of his DVD commentaries you'll see he is very happy to admit to mistakes. And no one, even the most rabid fans, claim he is "perfect". But when a network takes a serialised show and airs the pilot last and the others out of order, pre empting most of those for baseball, then yes that does suggest the network is to blame. If your local movie theatre ran the reels of a movie in the wrong order you'd complain.

Buffy itself is a perfect example. Movie (Whedon had no creative control) failed. Tv Series (Whedon in charge) Hit.   And for those who I have seen claiming he comes out with "excuses to blame failure on" it is a fact that Whedon blamed the director for ruining the movie long before it was released. He didn't "jump on a bandwagon".


So your argument is that unless Whedon runs his story like a dictator and has total control over it, he cannot make it succeed and it's always someone else's fault it fails?
 
2013-03-26 05:08:12 PM  

MaxxLarge: Flint Ironstag: I think Whedon's problem is the perception he has. People who say "His dialogue is always the same!" when it patently isn't.

They say the same thing about Aaron Sorkin...And in his case, they're more right than not.  Doesn't mean I don't still love his work. Just that I know I should expect a certain stylized rhythm, and that's fine. It's his brand.

See also: Smith, Kevin; Tarantino, Quentin; Mamet, David; etc.


The other common criticism is "he always hires the same people". Which isn't generally true (Firefly had an all new regular cast apart from Summer Glau who had a single bit part on Angel and for Dollhouse Whedon did not hire a single person he had worked with before as a regular, though there were a couple of recurring roles) but if it were true, so what? The guys you mention, Smith, Tarantino, Mamet, all work with some people again and again, and Mamet gets bonus points for hiring his wife! (Smith did as well for JASBSB but that was almost a cameo)
 
2013-03-26 05:10:29 PM  

GAT_00: MaxxLarge: Flint Ironstag: I think Whedon's problem is the perception he has. People who say "His dialogue is always the same!" when it patently isn't.

They say the same thing about Aaron Sorkin...And in his case, they're more right than not.  Doesn't mean I don't still love his work. Just that I know I should expect a certain stylized rhythm, and that's fine. It's his brand.

See also: Smith, Kevin; Tarantino, Quentin; Mamet, David; etc.

Anyone who knows Sorkin's work knows those common elements.  There is for example this video which could only have been put together by a Sorkin devotee.  But a Sorkin fan will be the first to point those out and criticize the weaknesses of his writing style.

You never see Whedon fanatics criticize him.  It's a farking religion.  Whedon can literally do no wrong.

Flint Ironstag: That's a strange claim to make about the writer/director of a movie that took $207 million in three days.

Anyone could have made that movie make that much money after the build up to it.  And that movie was much weaker for Whedon writing it.


Know how I know you've never visited Whedonesque? The site where Whedon himself posts? people happily criticise things he's done and no one leaps on them or demands they be banned. Of course it's a fan site but to claim no criticism is allowed is just another myth that you've bought into.
 
2013-03-26 05:17:00 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Know how I know you've never visited Whedonesque? The site where Whedon himself posts? people happily criticise things he's done and no one leaps on them or demands they be banned. Of course it's a fan site but to claim no criticism is allowed is just another myth that you've bought into.


Why in the hell would I go to a Whedon fansite when I can't stand the ones on here?
 
2013-03-26 05:21:08 PM  
I'd say Batman and Iron Man did just fine without him.

Firefly was good, but Jesus Christ, good shows get cancelled all the time if they don't have a large audience. It sucks, but that's how networks are run.

And maybe critics did hate Buffy the Vampire Slayer the movie, but people of a certain age like it, and remember it fondly, and it made money.

Dollhouse sucked dick.
 
2013-03-26 05:24:43 PM  

GAT_00: Why in the hell would I go to a Whedon fansite when I can't stand the ones on here?


That's ok, better to be a Whedon fan than a holier-than-thou political tool I suppose.
 
2013-03-26 05:26:08 PM  

Flint Ironstag: and for Dollhouse Whedon did not hire a single person he had worked with before as a regular,


i84.photobucket.com

cf.broadsheet.ie
 
2013-03-26 05:26:23 PM  

GAT_00: Flint Ironstag: Know how I know you've never visited Whedonesque? The site where Whedon himself posts? people happily criticise things he's done and no one leaps on them or demands they be banned. Of course it's a fan site but to claim no criticism is allowed is just another myth that you've bought into.

Why in the hell would I go to a Whedon fansite when I can't stand the ones on here?



So when you said "You never see Whedon fanatics criticize him. It's a farking religion" you admit you don't know what you were talking about?
 
2013-03-26 05:27:14 PM  

Therion: Flint Ironstag: and for Dollhouse Whedon did not hire a single person he had worked with before as a regular,

[i84.photobucket.com image 720x960]

[cf.broadsheet.ie image 602x554]


Whedon did not hire Eliza Dushku.  It was her deal with Fox before he got involved. She hired him.
 
2013-03-26 05:28:24 PM  

Flint Ironstag: GAT_00: Flint Ironstag: Know how I know you've never visited Whedonesque? The site where Whedon himself posts? people happily criticise things he's done and no one leaps on them or demands they be banned. Of course it's a fan site but to claim no criticism is allowed is just another myth that you've bought into.

Why in the hell would I go to a Whedon fansite when I can't stand the ones on here?


So when you said "You never see Whedon fanatics criticize him. It's a farking religion" you admit you don't know what you were talking about?


You do realize you're pretty much proving my point here, right? I'm automatically wrong because I criticized Whedon.
 
2013-03-26 05:30:47 PM  

GAT_00: So your argument is that unless Whedon runs his story like a dictator and has total control over it, he cannot make it succeed and it's always someone else's fault it fails?


It's always funny that it is utterly accepted on Fark that studios are dumb idiots with no creativity or brains. Until Joss Whedon comes up and then it's suddenly "Oh right, the studio cocked up. Suuure.... Studios making a mistake, Right..."

Nice quote from Sam Rami:

I did seeThe Avengers, and I loved it. I thought it was brilliant. Joss Whedon is an extraordinarily talented filmmaker ... and in fact, in 1994, I was making a western calledThe Quick and the Dead and having a script problem, and I came to the studio and said, "Can you find me a writer? I've shot this movie, and the end isn't quite working." And ultimately, the movie didn't quite work. But they suggested Joss Whedon, who was doingBuffy, so I met Joss and he saw the movie, and he helped me solve this ending in one afternoon. I thought,Damn, you're a good writer! I wish I could have had you rewrite the whole movie and save this picture! But I'll never forget how good he was, and how precise, so when I sawThe Avengers, I was not surprised that his name was on it. It's a very hard job to take all those heroes and all those stories and know exactly what bits the audience needs and what they don't need.
 
2013-03-26 05:33:18 PM  

GAT_00: Flint Ironstag: GAT_00: Flint Ironstag: Know how I know you've never visited Whedonesque? The site where Whedon himself posts? people happily criticise things he's done and no one leaps on them or demands they be banned. Of course it's a fan site but to claim no criticism is allowed is just another myth that you've bought into.

Why in the hell would I go to a Whedon fansite when I can't stand the ones on here?


So when you said "You never see Whedon fanatics criticize him. It's a farking religion" you admit you don't know what you were talking about?

You do realize you're pretty much proving my point here, right? I'm automatically wrong because I criticized Whedon.


Circular logic is circular.

You're wrong because you made a claim with no evidence and where the evidence shows otherwise. Posters will freely criticise things Whedon has done on that site and no one calls them a heretic.
 
2013-03-26 05:37:24 PM  

Flint Ironstag: You're wrong because you made a claim with no evidence and where the evidence shows otherwise. Posters will freely criticise things Whedon has done on that site and no one calls them a heretic.


That's the beauty of belief. He believes any argument on his logic is just more proof that all Whedon fans are rabid and crazy.

Let's just ignore the fact this is the internet and we just can't leave provably false assertions alone.
 
2013-03-26 05:39:45 PM  

GAT_00: You never see Whedon fanatics criticize him. It's a farking religion. Whedon can literally do no wrong.

Anyone could have made that movie make that much money after the build up to it. And that movie was much weaker for Whedon writing it.


Those two lines showed me that you are simply a hater and won't listen to anyone who has an opposing view on this subject. You are automatically dismissing anyone that disagrees with you, just like you claim they are doing to you.

FWIW I like Whedon, but I think he has short comings. I also don't think anyone else could have made Avengers as successful as he did.
 
2013-03-26 05:43:09 PM  

Klippoklondike: Or maybe his writing skills are only liked by a small but rabid fanbase


This. People suck his tonker like he's the greatest thing ever. God in Heaven, you'd think that he never did anything wrong, he was just sabotaged by the system. Let me clue you in on a few things, folks: the guy gets his stuff produced, which the vast majority of people do not, it gets aired, and it lives or dies on its merits. The Avengers? Great movie. Buffy? I liked the movie better than the series, but both were OK even though the series went at least three seasons too long. Firefly/Serenity and Dollhouse? Dogs. But because he wrote it the fanboys blot out the sun with all the jizz they shoot into the air and complain that their god didn't get a fair shake. Except that he has, he does, and he did.

He's just a writer, admittedly a talented one, but he has misses just like anyone else. The difference is that he has a legion of fanatics carrying water for him who think he can do no wrong, and I will never, ever understand why.
 
2013-03-26 05:45:27 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Whedon did not hire Eliza Dushku. It was her deal with Fox before he got involved. She hired him.




What about the guy that played Wash on Firefly and Adam on Dollhouse?
 
2013-03-26 05:45:33 PM  

cannotsuggestaname: GAT_00: You never see Whedon fanatics criticize him. It's a farking religion. Whedon can literally do no wrong.

Anyone could have made that movie make that much money after the build up to it. And that movie was much weaker for Whedon writing it.

Those two lines showed me that you are simply a hater and won't listen to anyone who has an opposing view on this subject. You are automatically dismissing anyone that disagrees with you, just like you claim they are doing to you.

FWIW I like Whedon, but I think he has short comings. I also don't think anyone else could have made Avengers as successful as he did.


I can sum up why I can't stand Whedon in one word: shawarma.
 
2013-03-26 05:53:59 PM  
or: why egomaniacs are difficult to work with.
 
2013-03-26 06:00:29 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Flint Ironstag: Whedon did not hire Eliza Dushku. It was her deal with Fox before he got involved. She hired him.

What about the guy that played Wash on Firefly and Adam on Dollhouse?


That's why I said "regular" and "though there were a couple of recurring roles". Amy Acker was the closest to being a regular.

But still the myth persists that "he only hires the same people again and again" when in fact the evidence is he hired a whole bunch of new people for new projects. Even Dr Horrible had two out of the four main cast actors he'd never worked with before, and that was made with his own money! Much Ado About Nothing is out soon and that, again made with his own money in his own house, has lots of actors he's worked with before but still lots of newcomers.
 
2013-03-26 06:08:30 PM  

Flint Ironstag: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Flint Ironstag: Whedon did not hire Eliza Dushku. It was her deal with Fox before he got involved. She hired him.

What about the guy that played Wash on Firefly and Adam on Dollhouse?

That's why I said "regular" and "though there were a couple of recurring roles". Amy Acker was the closest to being a regular.

But still the myth persists that "he only hires the same people again and again" when in fact the evidence is he hired a whole bunch of new people for new projects. Even Dr Horrible had two out of the four main cast actors he'd never worked with before, and that was made with his own money! Much Ado About Nothing is out soon and that, again made with his own money in his own house, has lots of actors he's worked with before but still lots of newcomers.


I'm curious when you're going to realize that your "evidence" that he doesn't repeatedly hire the same people clearly shows that he shows a strong preference for actors he's worked with before.
 
2013-03-26 06:28:09 PM  
I read all that as Joss Whedon can't communicate ideas very well.
 
2013-03-26 06:42:26 PM  
I've never seen anything Whedon has done and liked it.  Sorry everyone... take my nerd card if you want.
 
2013-03-26 06:45:21 PM  
If you have never been a "creative" who had to deal with client and executive meddling, a quick primer on how it tends to go, if you're LUCKY:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSbXGsysAAk
 
2013-03-26 06:47:35 PM  

GAT_00: Flint Ironstag: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Flint Ironstag: Whedon did not hire Eliza Dushku. It was her deal with Fox before he got involved. She hired him.

What about the guy that played Wash on Firefly and Adam on Dollhouse?

That's why I said "regular" and "though there were a couple of recurring roles". Amy Acker was the closest to being a regular.

But still the myth persists that "he only hires the same people again and again" when in fact the evidence is he hired a whole bunch of new people for new projects. Even Dr Horrible had two out of the four main cast actors he'd never worked with before, and that was made with his own money! Much Ado About Nothing is out soon and that, again made with his own money in his own house, has lots of actors he's worked with before but still lots of newcomers.

I'm curious when you're going to realize that your "evidence" that he doesn't repeatedly hire the same people clearly shows that he shows a strong preference for actors he's worked with before.




Forget it GAT_00, it's Whedonverse.
 
2013-03-26 06:50:51 PM  
I found myself more interested in this related article:

5. All of his characters banter, all the time
Whedon is definitely known for the quotability of the dialogue, and the rhythms of the bantering and stuff. In particular, Buffy the Vampire Slayer became famous for the quippy teen dialogue with slang that seemed to come out of the language centers of Whedon's own brain. And yet, Whedon does pretty well at giving characters their own voices, and an hour of most of his shows isn't just non-stop quips or anything. Especially his later works, like Firefly or Dollhouse, deliberately pack in a number of characters with different viewpoints and ways of speaking, so that it's not all banter all the time.


You know, I might have to give Firefly a go, then.
 
2013-03-26 06:54:46 PM  

GAT_00: Flint Ironstag: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Flint Ironstag: Whedon did not hire Eliza Dushku. It was her deal with Fox before he got involved. She hired him.

What about the guy that played Wash on Firefly and Adam on Dollhouse?

That's why I said "regular" and "though there were a couple of recurring roles". Amy Acker was the closest to being a regular.

But still the myth persists that "he only hires the same people again and again" when in fact the evidence is he hired a whole bunch of new people for new projects. Even Dr Horrible had two out of the four main cast actors he'd never worked with before, and that was made with his own money! Much Ado About Nothing is out soon and that, again made with his own money in his own house, has lots of actors he's worked with before but still lots of newcomers.

I'm curious when you're going to realize that your "evidence" that he doesn't repeatedly hire the same people clearly shows that he shows a strong preference for actors he's worked with before.


He's going about this argument all wrong.

When confronted with the argument "Mr. X keeps hiring the same actors," his response should be, "So? Who gives a f*ck? Lots of directors work with a stable of actors they're comfortable with," not "NUH-UH!!!"
 
2013-03-26 06:57:39 PM  

GAT_00: Flint Ironstag: Know how I know you've never visited Whedonesque? The site where Whedon himself posts? people happily criticise things he's done and no one leaps on them or demands they be banned. Of course it's a fan site but to claim no criticism is allowed is just another myth that you've bought into.

Why in the hell would I go to a Whedon fansite when I can't stand the ones on here?


Says the guy posting multiple times in a Whedon thread.
 
2013-03-26 07:01:11 PM  
I got jumped on by Whedon fans because I said his work was okay but I didn't get the hype over it. They acted like something was wrong with me because I didn't get all rabid over it like they did.
 
2013-03-26 07:04:57 PM  
Doll House sucked.

I'll be honest, I didn't watch Firefly when it was first on.  I watched the first episode, wasn't impressed, and then watched it later on and enjoyed it heavily.  The big problem is that the first episode, the train robbing episode, is the damn weakest.
 
2013-03-26 07:08:37 PM  

andrewagill: I found myself more interested in this related article:

5. All of his characters banter, all the time
Whedon is definitely known for the quotability of the dialogue, and the rhythms of the bantering and stuff. In particular, Buffy the Vampire Slayer became famous for the quippy teen dialogue with slang that seemed to come out of the language centers of Whedon's own brain. And yet, Whedon does pretty well at giving characters their own voices, and an hour of most of his shows isn't just non-stop quips or anything. Especially his later works, like Firefly or Dollhouse, deliberately pack in a number of characters with different viewpoints and ways of speaking, so that it's not all banter all the time.

You know, I might have to give Firefly a go, then.


I finally gave that a shot and loved it, and I am not a complete fanboy.  Didn't get into Buffy at all and I give a lot of slack to anything with a female protaganist that kicks butt.
 
2013-03-26 07:17:16 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Doll House sucked.


It had scantily-clad Eliza Dushku.  You go to hell.
 
2013-03-26 07:19:12 PM  
Sometimes having total control over your project still farks thing up.

www.movieposter.com
 
2013-03-26 07:22:26 PM  
Cabin In The Woods was great. Now that hes making big money for hollywood, i'm sure he'll be given control over his projects in the future. When the marvel movies are over, we'll get to see alot more pure whedon films.
 
2013-03-26 07:24:47 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Doll House sucked.

I'll be honest, I didn't watch Firefly when it was first on.  I watched the first episode, wasn't impressed, and then watched it later on and enjoyed it heavily.  The big problem is that the first episode, the train robbing episode, is the damn weakest.


You didn't watch it in the right order. The first episode is Serenity.

I never watched it during it's original run or on any of the other runs it had on other channels, only on the DVD a co-worker lent me. I was hooked instantly.
 
2013-03-26 07:30:12 PM  

GAT_00: You never see Whedon fanatics criticize him.  It's a farking religion.  Whedon can literally do no wrong.


This is the sort of comment that just shuts down discussion.

If we like Whedon we can either state that this isn't true, in which case we're defending Whedon and, thus, "proving" the claim. Or we can agree, in which case the point has been conceded.

As rhetorical tricks go, it's an awfully cheap trick, don't you think?
 
2013-03-26 07:30:22 PM  

Flint Ironstag: f you watch some of his DVD commentaries you'll see he is very happy to admit to mistakes. And no one, even the most rabid fans, claim he is "perfect". But when a network takes a serialised show and airs the pilot last and the others out of order, pre empting most of those for baseball, then yes that does suggest the network is to blame. If your local movie theatre ran the reels of a movie in the wrong order you'd complain.


One game.  Firefly was preempted for one game, on October 11th.  Otherwise, Fox ran the show uninterrupted from Sept. 20th to Nov. 15th before it was pulled and effectively canceled.  I loved Firefly, and airing its episodes out of order certainly didn't help.  But the show debuted low and didn't really drop much further than most shows drop in their first seasons.  That show was doomed from the start and I don't think anything could have really saved it.
 
2013-03-26 07:30:41 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: Sometimes having total control over your project still farks thing up.

[www.movieposter.com image 500x772]


cdn.stereogum.com
Yep.
 
2013-03-26 07:31:28 PM  
My biggest problem with Whedon is I never got even a line of dialog.
 
2013-03-26 07:38:21 PM  

GAT_00: Flint Ironstag: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Flint Ironstag: Whedon did not hire Eliza Dushku. It was her deal with Fox before he got involved. She hired him.

What about the guy that played Wash on Firefly and Adam on Dollhouse?

That's why I said "regular" and "though there were a couple of recurring roles". Amy Acker was the closest to being a regular.

But still the myth persists that "he only hires the same people again and again" when in fact the evidence is he hired a whole bunch of new people for new projects. Even Dr Horrible had two out of the four main cast actors he'd never worked with before, and that was made with his own money! Much Ado About Nothing is out soon and that, again made with his own money in his own house, has lots of actors he's worked with before but still lots of newcomers.

I'm curious when you're going to realize that your "evidence" that he doesn't repeatedly hire the same people clearly shows that he shows a strong preference for actors he's worked with before.


Really? So when he created Firefly he hired nine regulars, eight of which he'd never worked with before and one who had had a couple of lines in a single episode of Angel? That shows he "has a strong preference for actors he's worked with before"?
Then with Dollhouse again of the seven regulars all were new to him except Dushku who he didn't hire.
That's almost going out of his way tonothire people he's worked with before.

Again, nothing wrong with writers/directors hiring people they have worked with before. Many do, Smith Tarantino and Mamet as mentioned already. But if people are going to bring that out as a criticism of Whedon then the obvious fact that it clearly isn't true should be mentioned.
 
2013-03-26 07:38:38 PM  
Lots of bizarre hatred for Dollhouse in this thread... it may have been his best show; certainly the most complex. I'll assume you were the poor saps who watched the first few episodes?

Dollhouse eps 1-5= Whedon had the same level of control as the Buffy film
Dollhouse eps 6-end= Whedon was given control of his own series

As far as criticism... I'll never forgive him for introducing Jane Espenson to genre television. She is a menace.
 
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