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(Washington Post)   Pot growers who are hoping to cash in on the "green rush" in Colorado are having trouble with the 'man'. The 'man' being the banks which aren't lending them money to grow their businesses   (washingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Colorado, Pot growers  
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920 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Mar 2013 at 1:05 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-26 01:07:11 PM  
Maybe people's and banks opinions will change when people stop calling it shiat like "pot" instead of cannabis.
 
2013-03-26 01:07:18 PM  
"job creators"
 
2013-03-26 01:07:26 PM  
Weed bad, billionaire bankers shipping your economy to Asia and funding drug cartels OK.
 
2013-03-26 01:07:35 PM  
Because the the Feds are in the position to swoop down and confiscate everything via asset forfeiture.
 
2013-03-26 01:08:12 PM  
Nope. Weedlord Bonerhitler is da Man.
 
2013-03-26 01:11:45 PM  
Laundering billions in international drug money still A-okay.
 
2013-03-26 01:12:02 PM  
Indoor grows have got to be one of the most inefficient and unsustainable methods for growing pot, and in a world where other states with more suitable climates were able to grow and export marijuana, these grow ops would dry up in a heartbeat.

I can't say I blame the banks for not wanting to fund them, besides all the other potential federal liability issues involved at the moment.
 
2013-03-26 01:15:32 PM  
Yep, no credit, won't take deposits and no payroll services
 
2013-03-26 01:16:40 PM  
I'll do my part,

$40 at a time.
 
2013-03-26 01:17:14 PM  

meat0918: I can't say I blame the banks for not wanting to fund them, besides all the other potential federal liability issues involved at the moment.


With all the uncertainty in that particular sector, I can see that a bank wouldn't want to take the risk.  If the CO law is trumped by the Feds, they'd stand to lose a whole lot of money.
 
2013-03-26 01:18:57 PM  

Alphakronik: Maybe people's and banks opinions will change when people stop calling it shiat like "pot" instead of cannabis.


Right, because we all know how no liquor business is taken seriously because of how people call it shiat like "booze".
 
2013-03-26 01:21:12 PM  
It's still federally illegal.  Based on that alone, I wouldn't put any venture capital into a growing operation either.
 
2013-03-26 01:22:57 PM  
It's a federal issue, not an issue with the banks.

The banks want to get their grubby hands on all the pot money, but they won't touch it as long as the feds can swoop in and freeze their assets.
 
2013-03-26 01:24:31 PM  
It's not really up to the banks. Since cannabis is still illegal under federal law, and banks are federally regulated, banks aren't allowed to make such a loan.


Just tell them you're doing something else with the money, like a gourmet/organic vegetable farm.
 
2013-03-26 01:29:17 PM  

Glicky: Because the the Feds are in the position to swoop down and confiscate everything via asset forfeiture.


meat0918: Indoor grows have got to be one of the most inefficient and unsustainable methods for growing pot, and in a world where other states with more suitable climates were able to grow and export marijuana, these grow ops would dry up in a heartbeat.

I can't say I blame the banks for not wanting to fund them, besides all the other potential federal liability issues involved at the moment.


nekom: It's still federally illegal.  Based on that alone, I wouldn't put any venture capital into a growing operation either.


All of this. It's not a smart investment right now, so it's going to be slow going for a while.
 
2013-03-26 01:29:42 PM  
If only there were some way these people could get their hands on large sums of money. Possibly illegal, of course, but that didn't stop Joseph Kennedy and the child of a Colorado pot grower might be president some day.

Back in the day I was renting studio space in an old factory building in Waltham, MA. A reformed pot dealer was trying to switch over to a legitimate business  and launder his money, so he started a frame shop in our space, put in state-of-the-art equipment (for 1985, anyway) and happily took over the rent and the cost of improvements. He may have occasionally sold a picture frame, too, as I recall. I moved out the area soon afterwards but for all I know he's still there. More power to him!
 
2013-03-26 01:30:52 PM  
So, kickstarter that shiat?  Microlending exists for exactly this sort of situation.
 
2013-03-26 01:33:10 PM  

Alphakronik: Maybe people's and banks opinions will change when people stop calling it shiat like "pot" instead of cannabis.


huh?  srsly?
 
2013-03-26 01:33:26 PM  
Cannabis biz never needed banks before. Why now? I say just keep on as usual but be sure and report properly to the IRS.
 
2013-03-26 01:36:19 PM  
This actually is a bigger pain in the ass than you all realize because it means dispensaries can't take credit cards. My dispensary only takes cash and even though they provide an ATM in-store, it's still a pain to have to take out money. I dunno, guess it's just a first world problem?
 
2013-03-26 01:36:46 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Alphakronik: Maybe people's and banks opinions will change when people stop calling it shiat like "pot" instead of cannabis.

Right, because we all know how no liquor business is taken seriously because of how people call it shiat like "booze".


Liquor is physically addictive, cannabis isn't.  You're point is invalid.
 
2013-03-26 01:37:24 PM  
banks haven't been loaning very much money to small business for several years now
 
2013-03-26 01:37:39 PM  
I'm sure the small government, pro-business group in our political system will save the day on this one.
 
2013-03-26 01:37:43 PM  
how about just maintaining a small operation?

yes, i understand, you want to go big right out of the gate! you want to borrow money to make as much money as you possibly can, it's the American way after all.

Fark borrowing money, it's unnecessary (for marijuana cultivation anyways), money does grow on trees you know. baby steps. eventually, you can achieve your goals without the help of some piggy banker who would skim off your ideas labor & profits.
 
2013-03-26 01:37:49 PM  

Alphakronik: HeartBurnKid: Alphakronik: Maybe people's and banks opinions will change when people stop calling it shiat like "pot" instead of cannabis.

Right, because we all know how no liquor business is taken seriously because of how people call it shiat like "booze".

Liquor is physically addictive, cannabis isn't.  You're point is invalid.


And that has fark-all to do with what it's called.  Much like whether banks will fund it or not.
 
2013-03-26 01:39:12 PM  

Isitoveryet: how about just maintaining a small operation?

yes, i understand, you want to go big right out of the gate! you want to borrow money to make as much money as you possibly can, it's the American way after all.

Fark borrowing money, it's unnecessary (for marijuana cultivation anyways), money does grow on trees you know. baby steps. eventually, you can achieve your goals without the help of some piggy banker who would skim off your ideas labor & profits.


Right, of course.  They could just go to their parents for the money, like Mitt Romney said.
 
2013-03-26 01:40:40 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Alphakronik: HeartBurnKid: Alphakronik: Maybe people's and banks opinions will change when people stop calling it shiat like "pot" instead of cannabis.

Right, because we all know how no liquor business is taken seriously because of how people call it shiat like "booze".

Liquor is physically addictive, cannabis isn't.  You're point is invalid.

And that has fark-all to do with what it's called.  Much like whether banks will fund it or not.


Really?   Please, look up the origin of the word "marijuana" and "dope", and try tell me that again with a straight face.
 
2013-03-26 01:43:21 PM  

mrshowrules: banks haven't been loaning very much money to small business for several years now


Why would they give out their hard-earned bailout money?
 
2013-03-26 01:45:41 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Isitoveryet: how about just maintaining a small operation?

yes, i understand, you want to go big right out of the gate! you want to borrow money to make as much money as you possibly can, it's the American way after all.

Fark borrowing money, it's unnecessary (for marijuana cultivation anyways), money does grow on trees you know. baby steps. eventually, you can achieve your goals without the help of some piggy banker who would skim off your ideas labor & profits.

Right, of course.  They could just go to their parents for the money, like Mitt Romney said.


BHA!! that slipped my mind.

non article, everyone knows you can just borrow money from Mumsy & Da, maybe cash in some stocks or something.
 
2013-03-26 01:49:31 PM  

StubhyGraham: This actually is a bigger pain in the ass than you all realize because it means dispensaries can't take credit cards. My dispensary only takes cash and even though they provide an ATM in-store, it's still a pain to have to take out money. I dunno, guess it's just a first world problem?


You've been bying drugs with cash for your entire life. Now, suddenly its an inconvenience? Lol. This is just what the anti-drug people feared. Give an inch...
 
2013-03-26 01:50:19 PM  

Alphakronik: HeartBurnKid: Alphakronik: HeartBurnKid: Alphakronik: Maybe people's and banks opinions will change when people stop calling it shiat like "pot" instead of cannabis.

Right, because we all know how no liquor business is taken seriously because of how people call it shiat like "booze".

Liquor is physically addictive, cannabis isn't.  You're point is invalid.

And that has fark-all to do with what it's called.  Much like whether banks will fund it or not.

Really?   Please, look up the origin of the word "marijuana" and "dope", and try tell me that again with a straight face.


And that has what to do with whether banks will fund it, or whether or not it's physically addictive?
 
2013-03-26 01:51:09 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: StubhyGraham: This actually is a bigger pain in the ass than you all realize because it means dispensaries can't take credit cards. My dispensary only takes cash and even though they provide an ATM in-store, it's still a pain to have to take out money. I dunno, guess it's just a first world problem?

You've been bying drugs with cash for your entire life. Now, suddenly its an inconvenience? Lol. This is just what the anti-drug people feared. Give an inch...


To be fair, I keep thinking how great it would be if my guy had a Square card reader, but I realize the implications of a paper trail are not what most dealers are after.
 
2013-03-26 01:54:35 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: StubhyGraham: This actually is a bigger pain in the ass than you all realize because it means dispensaries can't take credit cards. My dispensary only takes cash and even though they provide an ATM in-store, it's still a pain to have to take out money. I dunno, guess it's just a first world problem?

You've been bying drugs with cash for your entire life. Now, suddenly its an inconvenience? Lol. This is just what the anti-drug people feared. Give an inch...


Actually I use my debit card to get drugs all the time. CVS and Walgreen's seem to have no problems with it.
 
2013-03-26 02:04:58 PM  
looks like a job for a kickstarter proposal.

chasd00: Cannabis biz never needed banks before. Why now? I say just keep on as usual but be sure and report properly to the IRS.


I think that is where the businesses are running into difficulty.  Since they are operating an illegal venture (at federal level) they cannot claim deductions like a normal business would.  I would like to think the margins are still good enough to essentially pay higher taxes to run the business, but then I do not grow the stuff (I would like to have my own garden full, but alas, Georgia is against it)
 
2013-03-26 02:18:30 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Alphakronik: HeartBurnKid: Alphakronik: HeartBurnKid: Alphakronik: Maybe people's and banks opinions will change when people stop calling it shiat like "pot" instead of cannabis.

Right, because we all know how no liquor business is taken seriously because of how people call it shiat like "booze".

Liquor is physically addictive, cannabis isn't.  You're point is invalid.

And that has fark-all to do with what it's called.  Much like whether banks will fund it or not.

Really?   Please, look up the origin of the word "marijuana" and "dope", and try tell me that again with a straight face.

And that has what to do with whether banks will fund it, or whether or not it's physically addictive?


1. When there is a stigma attached to something, people tend to discriminate against it.

2.  Alcohol being physically addictive will sell no matter what it is called due to the fact people are ADDICTED TO IT!  Did you seriously not remember your own argument?
 
2013-03-26 02:22:49 PM  
This should not be in the Politics tab.

I don't think it is a left vs. right, Rep. vs. Dem., lib. vs. cons. thing.
 
2013-03-26 02:24:13 PM  

Hyjamon: looks like a job for a kickstarter proposal.

chasd00: Cannabis biz never needed banks before. Why now? I say just keep on as usual but be sure and report properly to the IRS.

I think that is where the businesses are running into difficulty.  Since they are operating an illegal venture (at federal level) they cannot claim deductions like a normal business would.  I would like to think the margins are still good enough to essentially pay higher taxes to run the business, but then I do not grow the stuff (I would like to have my own garden full, but alas, Georgia is against it)


I didn't even think abou the deduction side, i just meant be sure and report your revenue so you're not guilty of tax evasion.
 
2013-03-26 02:25:49 PM  
So if the banks won't lend money to pot growers, what's to stop someone who has cash on hand from stepping in to fill the void? And who fits that profile?
 
2013-03-26 02:33:16 PM  

Kumana Wanalaia: So if the banks won't lend money to pot growers, what's to stop someone who has cash on hand from stepping in to fill the void? And who fits that profile?


I've thought about this, I wonder about interstate commerce. I live in TX, if I invest 20k in an operation in CO, since it crosses state lines, how are the feds involved? Also since the business is pretty much illegal at the federal level what happens if the relationship sours? If I sue what happens in the courts since the operation is illegal at the federal level? Lots of unknowns for investors.
 
2013-03-26 02:35:24 PM  

chasd00: Cannabis biz never needed banks before. Why now? I say just keep on as usual but be sure and report properly to the IRS.


For one thing, employees would have to be paid in cash, which means that the businesses must have enough cash on hand to meet payroll.  If they wanted to hire an alarm company to help them protect that cash, they would have to pay that company in cash.  Even assuming that company is equipped to deal in cash, it means a monthly deposit, in cash, to that company.  Multiply this by every vendor you have, and you can see why ANY modern business would need a bank.  The alternative is to have someone you trust explicitly run a lot more errands with a lot more cash than is often comfortable (monthly rent, for instance).

None of this is the problem of a bank that does not want to get cross-ways against the Federal Government, mind you, but it IS a problem for the business.
 
2013-03-26 02:38:04 PM  

Alphakronik: HeartBurnKid: Alphakronik: HeartBurnKid: Alphakronik: HeartBurnKid: Alphakronik: Maybe people's and banks opinions will change when people stop calling it shiat like "pot" instead of cannabis.

Right, because we all know how no liquor business is taken seriously because of how people call it shiat like "booze".

Liquor is physically addictive, cannabis isn't.  You're point is invalid.

And that has fark-all to do with what it's called.  Much like whether banks will fund it or not.

Really?   Please, look up the origin of the word "marijuana" and "dope", and try tell me that again with a straight face.

And that has what to do with whether banks will fund it, or whether or not it's physically addictive?

1. When there is a stigma attached to something, people tend to discriminate against it.

2.  Alcohol being physically addictive will sell no matter what it is called due to the fact people are ADDICTED TO IT!  Did you seriously not remember your own argument?


Really? You think banks give a fark about stigmas, or that the fact that marijuana isn't physically addictive means there's no market for it? Whatever it is you're smoking, it's a lot stronger than marijuana.

The reason banks won't invest is because a business where the feds can show up, shut down everything, and seize all the assets at any time is a really farking bad investment.
 
2013-03-26 02:39:40 PM  

Ambivalence: So, kickstarter that shiat?  Microlending exists for exactly this sort of situation.


Then the feds get everyone with RICO.  Just freaking legalize it already.  It's a farking plant.
 
2013-03-26 02:40:07 PM  

Kumana Wanalaia: So if the banks won't lend money to pot growers, what's to stop someone who has cash on hand from stepping in to fill the void? And who fits that profile?


Exactly the same problem with banks.  It is a bad  business investment.  If someone wanted to invest for some other reason, that would be a different thing.  Remember, the Sea Shepards are pirates (and certifiable), they are not supported by flags, not really protected by most international law, but they still have US corporate backers, because the investment is about something other than a safe place for capital.

This would not help with the lack of a checking system for business expenses, however.
 
2013-03-26 02:42:49 PM  

Isitoveryet: how about just maintaining a small operation?

yes, i understand, you want to go big right out of the gate! you want to borrow money to make as much money as you possibly can, it's the American way after all.

Fark borrowing money, it's unnecessary (for marijuana cultivation anyways), money does grow on trees you know. baby steps. eventually, you can achieve your goals without the help of some piggy banker who would skim off your ideas labor & profits.


Lights (and you need different kinds depending where in the plants lifecycle you are), ballasts, chemicals and the proper disposal systems for said chemical, hydro equipment if you don't use soil, HEAVY security systems, humidification control, temp control (more than just a simple home thermostat), tents to separate different strains that require different growing conditions...man, you can eat up $50k on a 24 plant operation REAL quick. Not to mention that unless you already know what you're doing, your first few harvests will not be "top shelf" product. You could hire a skilled grower, but you still have months of payroll to cover before your first harvest. And just like any other biz, shiatty budtenders and trimmers are cheap and...shiatty. So you want to pay for talent. It's just like any other business, you need a certain amount of capital and being able to secure a loan is a big help with that.
 
2013-03-26 02:43:30 PM  

Jackson Herring: "job creators"




i865.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-26 02:51:12 PM  
As soon as the feds legalize it corporate farming will start growing it and cigarette companies will probably manufacture and market it. The banks will lend companies in both of these industries as much money as they want. Legalize it, control it, tax it. Everybody wins except people selling it illegally. I would also assume crop production would move to the least expensive, most productive growing environments both in the US and in other countries. There are probably better places to grow than in Colorado.
 
2013-03-26 02:55:07 PM  

Spasticus Autisticus: This should not be in the Politics tab.

I don't think it is a left vs. right, Rep. vs. Dem., lib. vs. cons. thing.


Politics is not just left vs. right.  In this case, the Federal government is affecting lawful action defined by the state.  This is Federal gov't vs. States rights, which is definitely political.
 
2013-03-26 02:55:11 PM  

js34603: Actually I use my debit card to get drugs all the time. CVS and Walgreen's seem to have no problems with it.


To say nothing of Starbucks.
 
2013-03-26 02:56:42 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Alphakronik: HeartBurnKid: Alphakronik: HeartBurnKid: Alphakronik: HeartBurnKid: Alphakronik: Maybe people's and banks opinions will change when people stop calling it shiat like "pot" instead of cannabis.

Right, because we all know how no liquor business is taken seriously because of how people call it shiat like "booze".

Liquor is physically addictive, cannabis isn't.  You're point is invalid.

And that has fark-all to do with what it's called.  Much like whether banks will fund it or not.

Really?   Please, look up the origin of the word "marijuana" and "dope", and try tell me that again with a straight face.

And that has what to do with whether banks will fund it, or whether or not it's physically addictive?

1. When there is a stigma attached to something, people tend to discriminate against it.

2.  Alcohol being physically addictive will sell no matter what it is called due to the fact people are ADDICTED TO IT!  Did you seriously not remember your own argument?

Really? You think banks give a fark about stigmas, or that the fact that marijuana isn't physically addictive means there's no market for it? Whatever it is you're smoking, it's a lot stronger than marijuana.

The reason banks won't invest is because a business where the feds can show up, shut down everything, and seize all the assets at any time is a really farking bad investment.


So you're asserting that the feds show up and seize bank property when they do wrong?  Have you been asleep for the past 5 years?

Apparently, it isn't me who's high here.
 
2013-03-26 02:58:50 PM  

Alphakronik: HeartBurnKid: Alphakronik: HeartBurnKid: Alphakronik: Maybe people's and banks opinions will change when people stop calling it shiat like "pot" instead of cannabis.

Right, because we all know how no liquor business is taken seriously because of how people call it shiat like "booze".

Liquor is physically addictive, cannabis isn't.  You're point is invalid.

And that has fark-all to do with what it's called.  Much like whether banks will fund it or not.

Really?   Please, look up the origin of the word "marijuana" and "dope", and try tell me that again with a straight face.


It's like you grabbed every typical pro-pot talking point and decided you had to barf them up randomly.

"What does the name have to do with anything?"

"GEORGE WASHINGTON GREW HEMP!"

"Umm...OK.  I don't see h-"

"IT CAN MAKE CLOTHING, ROPE AND USEFUL OILS"

"Look, I don't even dis-"

"HOW DO YOU MAKE A PLANT ILLEGAL?!?!?!"
 
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