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(Some Guy)   This is the thread where you defend what you believe in and call everyone else's believes bollocks. Now with a Venn diagram for easy navigation   (crispian-jago.blogspot.co.uk) divider line 87
    More: Cool, Venn diagram, critical thinking  
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16604 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Mar 2013 at 3:55 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2013-03-26 12:32:40 PM
13 votes:
i1057.photobucket.com
2013-03-26 10:52:02 AM
11 votes:
I believe that prior to our birth we are not alive.

I believe that after our death we are also not alive.

I do not believe that these two instances (of being not alive) are any different. Both are the same... that is nothingness.
2013-03-26 10:14:14 AM
8 votes:
Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days.

[pauses then winks and walks away]
2013-03-26 04:42:51 PM
5 votes:

DesertDemonWY: [i1057.photobucket.com image 700x537]


i.imgur.com
ftfy.
2013-03-26 04:20:00 PM
5 votes:
Bullocks
www.hilaryshepherd.com
2013-03-26 03:53:43 PM
5 votes:
Mythology is just religion plus time. Forever and always, 100% of the time. No gods have ever been real, or will ever be real... Period.
2013-03-26 04:47:32 PM
4 votes:
2.bp.blogspot.com
2013-03-26 10:10:21 AM
4 votes:
I was promised a Venn diagram in thread.
2013-03-26 06:08:27 PM
3 votes:

Ambitwistor: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 010/05/100530144021.htm


The citations are a playground of good information about adenosine production using deep brain stimulation.  Thanks for the links.

Acupuncture still falls under the "Sigh, ok so we haven't disproven it in the technical sense, because science doesn't work that way.  However, we can provisionally reject the claims it makes."

Read  The Believing Brain for a fun understanding of why people believe stupid shiat and won't listen to all the reasons they are full of bullocks.
2013-03-26 04:28:00 PM
3 votes:

kvinesknows: I was promised a Venn diagram in thread.


i.imgur.com
2013-03-26 03:43:34 PM
3 votes:

Jubeebee: Why is detox in quackery/psuedoscience? Doesn't drug rehab show a lot of real efficacy?


The detox that this diagram includes is not the drug rehab kind (which does show a lot of real efficacy). It's the kind of detox in which people try to rid their bodies of mysterious unnamed "toxins" by dubious methods, usually by buying a blatantly bullshiat product. The product I've heard the most about is a type of pad that you stick on your feet. After you've left the pad on for a while, it turns brown and smelly, and when you remove it the damn thing looks just awful because it "sucked the toxins of of your body" through your feet. Chemical analysis of these pads shows that they are actually simple adhesive pads laced with chemicals that react with oils and bacteria commonly found on feet to cause the brown color and bad smell, which is just for show.
2013-03-27 05:23:35 AM
2 votes:

Z-clipped: Atheism and agnosticism are not exclusive. See above. Agnosticism is an epistemological position, not a theological one.


Replace "theological" with "ontological" and you're dead on. And to keep in the theme of the thread:

www.smidgeindustriesltd.com
=Smidge=
2013-03-26 09:27:23 PM
2 votes:

willfullyobscure: whatshisname: How can God exist? Nobody can even define it.

The mackerel snappers have a perfectly cromulent definition, honed by centuries of rigourous thought:

The Nature of God

Proof of the Existence of God

well worth the read, if i do say so myself. It's not like nobody ever thought about this before, you know. Its sort of central to Western civilization and stuff.


Those aren't definitions. They're vague descriptions. You might even say they are willfully obscure.
2013-03-26 07:36:19 PM
2 votes:
www.smidgeindustriesltd.com
2013-03-26 06:45:28 PM
2 votes:

Ambitwistor: willfullyobscure: Well, here is a nice discussion of a recent metastudy that shows beyond any shadow of a doubt, that acunpuncture is more than just placebo.

Uh ...

That was the very same link that I cited in my original response to you, which shows that acupuncture is NOT more than just a placebo.  The estimated effect size is so small that, as the article points out, it "it falls below the minimally accepted threshold for a clinically noticeable reduction in pain. The authors even speculated that it was so low that it could not be distinguished from bias that might result from the difficulty in truly double-blinding acupuncture studies."


Just to be clear on the difference between "statistical significance" and "effect size":

"Statistically significant" means that an effect was detected.  "Effect size smaller than a clinically noticeable reduction in pain" means that the effect is so small that a person isn't able to tell the difference between the pain they experience with or without the acupuncture.  Which means, in practice, that it's a placebo.

Perhaps the title of the article we both linked says it all, as the author himself noted:  "Can we finally just say that acupuncture is nothing more than an elaborate placebo?  Can we?"  I don't know why you didn't read it when I first linked to it.  I guess you were so fixated on cherry-picking irrelevant studies that you only bothered to Google "meta-analysis" when I brought it up.
2013-03-26 06:37:09 PM
2 votes:

willfullyobscure: Well, here is a nice discussion of a recent metastudy that shows beyond any shadow of a doubt, that acunpuncture is more than just placebo.


Uh ...

That was the very same link that I cited in my original response to you, which shows that acupuncture is NOT more than just a placebo.  The estimated effect size is so small that, as the article points out, it "it falls below the minimally accepted threshold for a clinically noticeable reduction in pain. The authors even speculated that it was so low that it could not be distinguished from bias that might result from the difficulty in truly double-blinding acupuncture studies."
2013-03-26 05:27:59 PM
2 votes:
s21.postimg.org
2013-03-26 05:15:44 PM
2 votes:

Day_Old_Dutchie: Bollocks.
[s21.postimg.org image 375x500]
The bullocks bollocks.


I think I can follow that up with a Venn diagram:

www.smbc-comics.com
2013-03-26 04:42:48 PM
2 votes:

Earguy: Well, I believe in the soul....


Pfft.

I believe in rainbows, and puppy dogs and fairy tales. And I believe
in the family: Mom, and Dad, and Grandma, and Uncle Todd, who waves
his penis.

And I believe in 8 of the Ten Commandments, and I believe in going to
church every Sunday, unless there's a game on.

And I believe that sex is one of the most beautiful, wholesome, and
natural things that money can buy.

And I believe it's derogatory to refer to a woman's breasts as "boobs",
"jugs", "winnebagos", or "golden bozos". And you should only refer to
them as "hooters".

And I believe you should place a woman on a pedestal, high enough so
you can look up her dress.

And I believe in equality, equality for everyone, no matter how stupid
they are, or how much better I am than they are.

And people say I'm crazy for believing this, but I believe that robots
are stealing my luggage.

And I believe I made a mistake when I bought a 30-story, one-bedroom
apartment.

And I believe that the "Battle of the Network Stars" should be fought
with guns.

And I believe that Ronald Reagan can make this country what it once
was: an arctic region, covered with ice.

And I believe the United States should all foreigners in this country,
provided they can speak our native language: Apache.

And lastly, I believe that of all the evils on this earth, there is
nothing worse than the music you are listening to right now.
2013-03-26 04:24:19 PM
2 votes:
crujonessociety.com
I want to believe.
2013-03-26 04:19:43 PM
2 votes:
I was the biggest disbeliever in chiropractic,
that is. until the doctor gave me Valium for my back pain.
There are a few things I cannot abide by in my life, but taking narcotics to sleep at night is one of them.
I absolutely detest narcotics.
I like having a clear head.
I didn't want to go to see a chiropractor, but I was sweeping the floor in terrible pain, at my old job, and had to bend over to pick up a blow in ad that fell out of a stack of newspapers.
I flipped it over and it was a full page ad for this new chiro in town. So I made an appointment and gave it a chance. Ordinarily, I wouldn't have done this, but I was delirious from lack of sleep, pain, and drugs.
I was so out of it the day of the visit, I could barely dress, and went to the office for the visit with my frikkin fly down. I didn't care. I was in pain. Guy gave me an X-Ray, asked if I had been a a car wreck. (I had) and gave me a themo-graphic reading on the back to narrow down where the pain was, with out asking me.
Mind you, when I went to the REAL doctor, I told him it felt like I had an Ice Pick in my back. He didn't ask me to remove my shirt. The guy didn't even turn me around to see if I actually had an ice pick in my back. He just wrote me a scrip for Valium.
The chiropractor had me sit down, and tapped my back in one spot, and said is this where it hurts most?
BINGO. He knew where it was through his diagnostic check up.
He gave me one adjustment and it was like the ice pick was taken out. I flushed the pulls right down the john. never took one again. I still go in for adjustments, but I'm not drooling on my keyboard.

So ymmv, but call be a believer.
a convert.
2013-03-26 04:13:32 PM
2 votes:

meanmutton: MaxxLarge: Mythology is just religion plus time. Forever and always, 100% of the time. No gods have ever been real, or will ever be real... Period.

That's an amazingly unscientific viewpoint.


In case you're wondering, the scientific viewpoint is: No credible evidence has been put forth to lead to a reasonable conclusion that gods exist; thus, we do not accept their existence but are willing to review this conclusion should new evidence be presented.
2013-03-26 03:44:19 PM
2 votes:

Speaker2Animals: hinten: Fark, where everyone biatches about bad grammar but nobody can state what is actually wrong.

Defend what you believe in and call everyone else's believes bollocks.

".., defend your beliefs and call everyone else's beliefs bollocks."


Those are spelling errors not grammar mistakes but I see what you mean.
2013-03-26 03:42:26 PM
2 votes:

hinten: Fark, where everyone biatches about bad grammar but nobody can state what is actually wrong.

Defend what you believe in and call everyone else's believes bollocks.


".., defend your beliefs and call everyone else's beliefs bollocks."
2013-03-26 03:35:27 PM
2 votes:
Why is detox in quackery/psuedoscience? Doesn't drug rehab show a lot of real efficacy?
2013-03-26 03:29:41 PM
2 votes:
Fark, where everyone biatches about bad grammar but nobody can state what is actually wrong.
2013-03-26 12:07:24 PM
2 votes:

kvinesknows: I was promised a Venn diagram in thread.


s24.postimg.org
2013-03-28 10:45:54 PM
1 votes:

Farking Canuck: Somebody missed their nap.

* backs away slowly *


If you are going to speak in a rude or arrogant tone, then don't be suprised when you get it sent back to you.
2013-03-27 03:11:19 PM
1 votes:

MBooda: Z-clipped: Most atheists are agnostic atheists

Whoa.  We need a new Venn diagram.

Do you hold the affirmative belief that a god exists?

No, nor do I hold the belief that a god doesn't exist.  Nor do I believe it's possible to prove it either way.


Congratulations. You're an agnostic atheist, just like me.

Agnostic describes your third statement.
Atheist describes your first statement.
(Your second statement loosely means you're an "implicit" atheist as well, in case you care.)

MBooda: Whoa. We need a new Venn diagram.


We have one.  Smidge was kind enough to provide it just upthread. I'll repost it here to save your scrolling finger:

www.smidgeindustriesltd.com
2013-03-27 02:34:37 PM
1 votes:

MBooda: I'm agnostic, I don't ascribe to any particular belief. Especially when it comes to wishing to be polite.


I don't care much about politness either ... especially when that apparently translates to giving special protections to silly beliefs because a lot of people hold them.

But I do take issue with people not arguing against their opponents' actual position. It is easy to put up a strawman and assail that ... a little more difficult when you go up against a real argument.
2013-03-27 05:50:49 AM
1 votes:

Smidge204: Z-clipped: Atheism and agnosticism are not exclusive. See above. Agnosticism is an epistemological position, not a theological one.

Replace "theological" with "ontological" and you're dead on. And to keep in the theme of the thread:


Yes, sorry, I was doing too many things at once when I typed that.  Thanks for the correction.  That's exactly what I meant to say.

GeneralJim: It's always annoying when someone commits a fallacy while pointing one out. The burden of proof only applies when it comes to a proof. It does NOT mean that it has been proved to not exist. You CAN say that, without proof, a compelling case was NOT made for the existence of God, or gods, but you cannot say that it has been proved that God does not exist.


I didn't.  I implied that, in the face of a complete lack of evidence for the positive claim, evidence of a negative claim is not required.  The positive claim can be reasonably dismissed without it.

In other words, absence of evidence is in fact evidence of absence. It's just not conclusive evidence.

At the risk of being snarky, I'll also note that in attempting to point out my committing a logical fallacy while pointing out a logical fallacy, you've committed a logical (straw man) fallacy.  I never implied that a proof of the absence of god exists; in fact, I personally believe such a proof is inherently impossible.  I just also believe that it's irrelevant, since all belief in gods can be reduced to wishful thinking.
2013-03-27 12:59:03 AM
1 votes:

my herniated disc: If we can neither prove or disprove the existence of god, wouldn't any idea concerning god's existence be a belief?

I believe in God
I don't believe in god.

2 beliefs

/agnostic


Because I'm bored...and on the off chance that you are legitimate.

Language is a bit of a barrier here.

It's clear to say what a "belief" is.  You believe in God.

I'm going to word the statements differently as it pertains to religion.

There is a God.
There is no God.

Your second example is missing.
I don't believe in a God.  I also don't disbelieve.

No matter how remote of a chance, a rational person cannot say there is not some otherwordly power that created earth when they take the time to sit down and logicly study the question.

That is the technical standing of proper theories.

HOWEVER...

For example, I say, "There is no God." for the sake of brevity.  As a common function of language, there is usually something understood there that follows.  But I could be wrong.  A VAST majority of people who say it like I do, but when/if they examine it, they will agree that it is possible.  Differentiating between that sort of agnostic and a true disbeliever is almost a futile effort, wasted time.  Either way, neither will gain belief withoutperceived evidence.(I sayperceived because hallucination/revelation/etc can be written off as not concrete share-able proof, but enough to sway an individual).

There's a thing about the argument that I find fascinating.  It is assumed that "belief" in a god is the default state, and therefore disbelief is anaberration.

What I posit, is(gets wordy here, feel free to scan, but I encourage anyone reading to actually try to grasp the concepts):
If religion is fiction(because, at root, it is no different than believing out of hand any tale you happen to be told, and it's very possible it is, a lie)....if it is a fiction, what other evidence is there?

If we write off hear-say evidence as not very reliable, where does that leave us?  If we discovered the christian bible was fake, or better, if it had never existed, the stories never spread, religious people would be a member of a different religion.  Regress it far enough back, and there is no religion.  It is all words passed down generation to generation as truth.

If that were possible in some bizzaro universe, what would make people come up with the idea of god in the first place.  Imagine that society went on much as it did, but with government instead of a church.  People were nice to eachother because they wanted people to be nice to them, civil rights, etc, all of that.

Here we sit, in modern times, now educated enough to where there's not a lot of mystery around us.  We have answers for things people never thought possible.  Thunder and lightning, weather, genetics, even human emotions, computers, hell, we can implant cameras into people's brains, sure, some of it is in early stages but as time goes on our collective intelligence rises.  What is the question where an educated man would have to leap to a conclusion of God being the only viable answer.

Whether it is by intent for power, or hallucination, I think that is the only way the very idea of God could have come about.  The same way a follower of Allah questions followers of Jesus and visa versa.

Most religious people alive today don't believe in other religions because they were never taught to believe in them.  Take one more religious education away from them and where do we sit?

Sure, there could be something out there, but as it stands now, only imagination could possibly think of anything, and only mental problems will convince it of absolute truth.  As we see now, most people with claims of such things now are viewed as ill people, be it pink elephants or fairies.  Why is God different?

Meh.  I have an absence of belief.  I may ponder and daydream, I even admit something is possible, but for all intents and purposes that matter outside of daydreams, there is no God.  There is no real-world application where the concept has any power except in manipulation of others, whether I believe or not.  It doesn't explain emotions, thunder, lightning, etc.

So why bother?

To comfort and baby regular old human insecurities.  Fear of death, succor to stop people from going absolutely crazy when they're suffering.

fark that, we've got drugs that can end suffering.  Fear of death, everyone has that.  People may pray to god while in foxholes, but it's desperation, and it rarely helps.  the types it does help, the tend to be suicide bombers that won't survive anyhow, but are still shiatting their pants in fear, it's just not quite crippling.

Love of family, and pride in community/country, etc, those things can serve the same psychological need to belay crippling fear in a moment of need.  Maybe if we concentrated on those things instead of fairytales, we'd be a bit better off.

See what happens when people get pedantic and fight when I say, "There is no God."?  A shiat ton of words and explanations come out, and even if you read this, it won't matter in 5 minutes.  Me, I had time to waste, but I don't always, so again, why bother?
2013-03-26 10:52:41 PM
1 votes:

my herniated disc: If we can neither prove or disprove the existence of god, wouldn't any idea concerning god's existence be a belief?

I believe in God
I don't believe in god.

2 beliefs

/agnostic



Person A: "I have a thousand dollars worth of gold in my pocket!"

Person B: "Oh yeah?  Show me.  Let's see it."

Does person B have a "belief" or just a question?
2013-03-26 10:11:40 PM
1 votes:

willfullyobscure: whatshisname: willfullyobscure: whatshisname: How can God exist? Nobody can even define it.

The mackerel snappers have a perfectly cromulent definition, honed by centuries of rigourous thought:

The Nature of God

Proof of the Existence of God

well worth the read, if i do say so myself. It's not like nobody ever thought about this before, you know. Its sort of central to Western civilization and stuff.

Those aren't definitions. They're vague descriptions. You might even say they are willfully obscure.

You're arguing with the Catholic Church over God

[www.myfacewhen.net image 192x191]


Why are you trolling and wasting people's time?
2013-03-26 09:06:50 PM
1 votes:

pippi longstocking: If you believe something and can't explain why, then you're a moron.


farking magnets. How do they work?
2013-03-26 08:57:31 PM
1 votes:
I notice the diagram doesn't content any 'scientific bollocks'.

Why is that?

Is science SOOOOOOOO perfect that there isn't any scientific bullshiate out there?

How about 'global warming' to start?
Or cloning a mammoth?
Or saying that blondes are gonna die out?
Or studying why lesbians drink?
2013-03-26 08:33:01 PM
1 votes:

GeneralJim: MaxxLarge: GeneralJim: MaxxLarge: No gods have ever been real, or will ever be real... Period.
And you would prove that statement....  How, exactly?

I don't need to. It's BEEN proven via history, biology, astronomy, physics, and a hundred other disciplines. It's been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that gods are just as much fairy tales as Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that superstitious people with an emotional need to cling to their imaginary friends will be predisposed to understand or accept it...But that's their problem, not mine.I've read a lot of science papers...  and I've never yet seen a proof that God does not exist.  I imagine such would get rather wide publicity, should it exist.  In other words, I think YOU are as "victimized" by superstition as any of the theists you deride.  If you want to redeem a stupid, oversimplified statement, just point to a paper that disproves the existence of God.  Any one of the no-doubt-thousands will do.


I consider myself an antitheistic agnostic.  (not atheist)  My biggest problem is the vast arrogance spouted by both sides of the aisle on this, religious and atheist alike.  Insisting that your viewpoint is the correct one with no evidence is just silly and you see it every day.  I'm okay with not knowing and I wish the rest of you would stop insisting that you know something that you cannot possibly know for certain.

All things considered, if a deity were responsible for us, you'd think being omnipotent/omniscient/etc would've let to a better product.
2013-03-26 08:06:22 PM
1 votes:

miscreant: Uncle Pim: Karma is on that chart? Karma just means cause and effect. There's nothing particularly mystical about it, despite what I read on Facebook.

Most people who use it, use it in the form of "If you do something good/bad, the universe will do something good/bad to or for you in turn", which is outside of cause and effect, and is bullshiat. Lots of people who do evil shiat live very pampered lives, and lots of good people live very harsh destitute lives.


Uhm. Yes and No. The basic premise is that kharma is a universal moral law in the same sense that gravity is a universal physical law. The good or bad, right or wrong things you do in this life shape your dharma for the next life. By fulfilling your dharma, you reach a higher plane of existence; resistance to your dharma means that not only will this life suck but the next one as well.

Provable? Not hardly. Testable? Not hardly.

Either way, karma is not a "be bad today, get kicked in the nuts tomorrow" kind of deal.
2013-03-26 07:59:38 PM
1 votes:

SultanofSchwing: I hate Blacks, Mexicans and Chinese people!


and bigots. don't forget the bigots.
2013-03-26 07:51:41 PM
1 votes:
m.cdn.blog.hu

I firmly believe in smashing two bricks together
2013-03-26 07:33:32 PM
1 votes:
I cannot believe crystals are lumped in there. Crystals of sodium chloride dissolved in water are very effective in staving off the effects of hyponatremia. The crystals of di-hydrogen monoxide, applied directly to injured tissue constrict blood vessels and ease pain. Finally, the isometric-hexoctahedral crystals of carbon are world renowned for their ability to relieve the pain of epididymal hypertension. Paradoxically, the relief is secured by the "gifting" of the crystal to another individual.
2013-03-26 07:25:00 PM
1 votes:
DesertDemonWY:
i1057.photobucket.com

Have at you!

 www.atheistmemebase.com
i63.photobucket.com
/Set vs charge.
2013-03-26 07:21:03 PM
1 votes:

SithLord: Moonfisher: Tarot also belongs in the religion circle. Our church when I was a kid told us that tarot decks were possessed by demons and using them invited the demon into you. The deck I got as a teenager never did anything exciting, so I am dissappoint.

I once played poker with a tarot deck.  I got a full house and my neighbor died.


i pulled down between 3-400 bucks a day the summer after high school fleecing tourists for tarot readings.

it helped to have a cool deck.

it really helped to be really good at cold readings.
2013-03-26 07:10:25 PM
1 votes:

Pert: Acupuncture?

Yeah, the whole "realignment of your energy paths" may be bollucks, but it can demonstrably be used to reduce or stop pain when needles are put in the right place to block nerve signals.


Actually, it can be shown to block pain when needles are put in random places and the client is told they are the right ones. They don't even have to be real needles, they just have to poke a little and then stick up, so metal with a bit of glue on the end.
2013-03-26 06:49:14 PM
1 votes:

miscreant: Uncle Pim: Karma is on that chart? Karma just means cause and effect. There's nothing particularly mystical about it, despite what I read on Facebook.

Most people who use it, use it in the form of "If you do something good/bad, the universe will do something good/bad to or for you in turn", which is outside of cause and effect, and is bullshiat. Lots of people who do evil shiat live very pampered lives, and lots of good people live very harsh destitute lives.


We should go with scientific laws, then.  For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.  Thus, if you do good, it will result in the opposite.  That being evil.  That would explain why so many evil people live lives of luxery while so many good people live in the worst kind of poverty.

Hey, it's as valid as any other of those explanations.

/I'm working on producing more good in the world.
//My plan involves strippers
2013-03-26 06:46:20 PM
1 votes:
Q&D
i45.tinypic.com
2013-03-26 06:00:13 PM
1 votes:

meanmutton: DesertDemonWY: [i1057.photobucket.com image 700x537]

Hey, I one-up Jimmy and just put certain people on ignore.


Wouldn't want to be confronted with any of those pesky differing opinions would you.

Mouser: meanmutton: meanmutton: MaxxLarge: Mythology is just religion plus time. Forever and always, 100% of the time. No gods have ever been real, or will ever be real... Period.

That's an amazingly unscientific viewpoint.

In case you're wondering, the scientific viewpoint is: No credible evidence has been put forth to lead to a reasonable conclusion that gods exist; thus, we do not accept their existence but are willing to review this conclusion should new evidence be presented.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." - Hebrews 11:1 (KJV)

God doesn't need your review to justify His existence.  That's why He's God, and you're not.


If only there were a way to test the existence of things...
2013-03-26 05:59:56 PM
1 votes:

SlothB77: ROLFing?  is that like ROTFLMAO?


It's a form of deep tissue massage. I just learned the term the other day reading this:

3.bp.blogspot.com
2013-03-26 05:54:16 PM
1 votes:

Loadmaster: Dude, that doesn't even rhyme.


A myth is religion plus time
one hundred percent of the time
We've never had gods
just trolls and Fark mods
and dark rum with cola and lime
2013-03-26 05:51:21 PM
1 votes:

MBooda: Ambitwistor: MBooda: Where's Atheism, the belief that there's no God?

Hey, not trolling, just quoting Webster.


In case you're not trolling, you should be aware that there is a whole philosophical debate as to whether atheism is a "belief" or a "lack of belief", whether those two statements are equivalent or distinct, and whether "belief that there God" is as epistemologically justifiable as "lacking a belief in God".
2013-03-26 05:48:17 PM
1 votes:

BafflerMeal: Ambitwistor: willfullyobscure: that said, Acupuncture should most definitely be off this list, as there is a large canon(decades worth) of well-established, properly conducted double blind research that shows that it has a  definitive, beneficial effects.

That turns out not to be the case.  Or rather, it does have "beneficial" effects, in the sense that placebos have beneficial effects:  it's purely psychological, not physiological.  You can get the same effect by inserting the needles in random places unrelated to accupuncture points or meridians, using fake accupuncture needles that don't actually puncture the skin, etc.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 010/05/100530144021.htm


As I said, you can get the same effect as acupuncture by inserting needles in random places, or not inserting needles at all.  The study you link to has nothing to do with acupuncture points.  Acupuncture isn't simply sticking needles in things.  There's a whole systematic method behind how you do it, which is bunk.
2013-03-26 05:45:47 PM
1 votes:

willfullyobscure: Dude, it works on horses and rabbits. There are dozens of studies that show it's not a placebo.


As I said, that turns out not to be the case.  You can find studies that show an effect.  You can find many more that don't.  That's why people conduct meta-analyses:  to see what the total weight of evidence across all the studies shows.  And the meta-analyses always show that there isn't any large consistent effect distinguishable from a placebo.

The major thing we don't understand about acupuncture is how and why it works.

The major thing we don't understand is why people believe it's not a placebo, despite all evidence to the contrary.  (Well, we do understand much of that:  selective cherry-picking of studies.)
2013-03-26 05:30:23 PM
1 votes:
willfullyobscureIGNORANT: Dude, it works on horses and rabbits. There are dozens of studies that show it's not a placebo. The major thing we don't understand about acupuncture is how and why it works.

The two studies you linked were 1) a study of electroacupuncture, which is not acupunture, and 2) a study that showed that different regions seemed to block pain for different horses, for different sexes, for different amounts, when only 23 horses in total were used for the study.  Bottom line: You are looking for data to support the belief you already have instead of looking at the data to determine what conclusions you should draw from it.  From this I conclude that you are a gullible or willfully ignorant person, and no amount of evidence is going to sway you.

Here's what would convince ME that acupuncture works:  Demonstrating that it works in a controlled environment in a repeatable, scrutable, falsifiable way.  This has yet to be done, and it's been around for literally thousands of years.

Here's what would convince YOU that acupuncture works: Anything demonstrating that it could possibly work.

What would convince you that acupunture is no better than placebo? [INSERT ANSWER HERE]

There's your problem right there.
2013-03-26 05:15:58 PM
1 votes:

Mouser: meanmutton: meanmutton: MaxxLarge: Mythology is just religion plus time. Forever and always, 100% of the time. No gods have ever been real, or will ever be real... Period.

That's an amazingly unscientific viewpoint.

In case you're wondering, the scientific viewpoint is: No credible evidence has been put forth to lead to a reasonable conclusion that gods exist; thus, we do not accept their existence but are willing to review this conclusion should new evidence be presented.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." - Hebrews 11:1 (KJV)

God doesn't need your review to justify His existence.  That's why He's God, and you're not.


How convenient.  Don't you think?
2013-03-26 05:11:26 PM
1 votes:

willfullyobscure: that said, Acupuncture should most definitely be off this list, as there is a large canon(decades worth) of well-established, properly conducted double blind research that shows that it has a  definitive, beneficial effects.


That turns out not to be the case.  Or rather, it does have "beneficial" effects, in the sense that placebos have beneficial effects:  it's purely psychological, not physiological.  You can get the same effect by inserting the needles in random places unrelated to accupuncture points or meridians, using fake accupuncture needles that don't actually puncture the skin, etc.
m00
2013-03-26 05:06:03 PM
1 votes:
www.smbc-comics.com
2013-03-26 05:05:01 PM
1 votes:
I believe 97% of Farkers are clueless, emotionally-driven moron with no concept of anything they haven't been brainwashed to believe.

the other 3% are badgered and ridiculed for trying to have intelligent discussions without all the drama... which makes them the dumbest people on Fark for believing they can have such a thing.

PROVE ME WRONG!
2013-03-26 05:02:55 PM
1 votes:

Farce-Side: I thought we already had this thread.


This topic is basically every single thread on Fark.
2013-03-26 04:55:11 PM
1 votes:
There is literally no way to post in this thread without  XOR Poe/Trolling. It is a logical impossibility to not be either/or, or both.

that said, Acupuncture should most definitely be off this list, as there is a large canon(decades worth) of well-established, properly conducted double blind research that shows that it has a  definitive, beneficial effects.

So that's a major flaw with this diagram.
2013-03-26 04:54:33 PM
1 votes:

Ennuipoet: I don't believe in Venn diagrams!


Where's your god now?


Let this circle represent the set of things you don't believe in. Are Venn diagrams contained in that circle?
2013-03-26 04:54:05 PM
1 votes:

Tellingthem: Kind of. They downplay it publicly but they still make the claims. From the ACA website


My doc doesn't care.
I'm one of 50 -70 patients he has daily.
My copay with BC is $25 until I max out my visits, which I keep to once a fortnight.
He works 3 1/2 days with three day weekends every week. his wife is a professional ballet dancer.
He makes really good money and gets to attend free ballet shows.
Me, I'm not stung out and he knows I have high blood pressure and only meds will help that.
We get along, his nurse loves me, and it's on the way home from work.
At a dollar eighty a day, I'm not complaining. I can still do stage fighting, and dance, and I'm not in pain.
He's not going to cure my alcoholism, and he knows it.

But everyone in the relationship is happy. that is what matters.
2013-03-26 04:44:22 PM
1 votes:
I believe I'll have another beer.
2013-03-26 04:43:19 PM
1 votes:
I thought we already had this thread.
2013-03-26 04:40:41 PM
1 votes:
Bollocks.
s21.postimg.org
The bullocks bollocks.
2013-03-26 04:22:50 PM
1 votes:

rkiller1: Bullocks
[www.hilaryshepherd.com image 350x475]


I think my married neighbor is gay.
He says, "they always put her in moves playing the hot girl, but she isn't hot. "
2013-03-26 04:17:54 PM
1 votes:

Uncle Pim: Karma is on that chart? Karma just means cause and effect. There's nothing particularly mystical about it, despite what I read on Facebook.


Most people who use it, use it in the form of "If you do something good/bad, the universe will do something good/bad to or for you in turn", which is outside of cause and effect, and is bullshiat. Lots of people who do evil shiat live very pampered lives, and lots of good people live very harsh destitute lives.
2013-03-26 04:17:42 PM
1 votes:

ACunningPlan: TheOmni: There's at least eight things on that diagram that I've never even heard of before. Rolfing? I'm really hoping that's not what I think it is.

Glad I'm not the only one:)  I'm almost afraid to ask, but what's cupping?


i105.photobucket.com

The "therapist" heats up some cups (usually glass) and places them on the skin.  The heated air inside the cups creates a partial vacuum, which is believed to suck unnamed "toxins" out of the body.
2013-03-26 04:16:45 PM
1 votes:

ACunningPlan: TheOmni: There's at least eight things on that diagram that I've never even heard of before. Rolfing? I'm really hoping that's not what I think it is.

Glad I'm not the only one:)  I'm almost afraid to ask, but what's cupping?


They rid the body of illness by placing a cup on the skin, usually with a candle under it that creates suction. It often leaves bruises and then cps shows up to arrest well-meaning immigrant parents because they think they are beating their kids.
2013-03-26 04:14:14 PM
1 votes:

Somacandra: The funny thing is that people involved in these really won't care that anyone else thinks its bollocks. For instance, I don't care what your "evaluation" of acupuncture and chiropractic are, I've had enough experience with both to know that they've really worked well for me in handling certain issues than before I had experience with them. As a practical guy, that's all the evidence I really want or need. YMMV.



Chiropractic for treating musculoskeletal back pain by spinal manipulation = legitimate.
Chiropractic for treating anything and everything by restoring the body's "innate intelligence" = quackery.
2013-03-26 04:14:13 PM
1 votes:
Karma is on that chart? Karma just means cause and effect. There's nothing particularly mystical about it, despite what I read on Facebook.
2013-03-26 04:13:42 PM
1 votes:

meanmutton: MaxxLarge: Mythology is just religion plus time. Forever and always, 100% of the time. No gods have ever been real, or will ever be real... Period.

That's an amazingly unscientific viewpoint.


No kidding.

Mythology is how people explained what they could not explain before the advent of science.  A myth might say "A goddess gave us willow bark to ease pain".  Science can then be utilized to investigate whether or not willow bark does ease pain.

Now a lot of times, these myths (especially regarding herbs) don't pan out and are better explained as a placebo effect, but we can still take a look at these things through the lens of science.
2013-03-26 04:13:10 PM
1 votes:
This completely misunderstands Scientology.  They are a dangerous nutjob cult, but the author of this diagram isn't familiar with the details.  He's working from a pop Internet retelling of them.

/Scientology neighbor
2013-03-26 04:09:57 PM
1 votes:

Chach: If we're going to call the Shroud of Turin "bollocks," shouldn't we first have a scientific explanation for it beyond "inconclusive?"


We do, it's called Pareidolia
2013-03-26 04:08:51 PM
1 votes:

MaxxLarge: Mythology is just religion plus time. Forever and always, 100% of the time. No gods have ever been real, or will ever be real... Period.


That's an amazingly unscientific viewpoint.
2013-03-26 04:06:55 PM
1 votes:

meat0918: I don't believe in any of that stuff.

What do I win?


Nothing. That's the point, right?
2013-03-26 04:06:43 PM
1 votes:

hinten: Speaker2Animals: hinten: Fark, where everyone biatches about bad grammar but nobody can state what is actually wrong.

Defend what you believe in and call everyone else's believes bollocks.

".., defend your beliefs and call everyone else's beliefs bollocks."

Those are spelling errors not grammar mistakes but I see what you mean.


"believes" is not spelled wrong, it's just the wrong word.  So yes, it's a grammar mistake.
2013-03-26 04:05:34 PM
1 votes:
Never mind the bollocks.
memeboss.com
Here's the Sex Pistols.
2013-03-26 03:57:17 PM
1 votes:
I hate Blacks, Mexicans and Chinese people!
2013-03-26 03:55:15 PM
1 votes:
The funny thing is that people involved in these really won't care that anyone else thinks its bollocks. For instance, I don't care what your "evaluation" of acupuncture and chiropractic are, I've had enough experience with both to know that they've really worked well for me in handling certain issues than before I had experience with them. As a practical guy, that's all the evidence I really want or need. YMMV.
2013-03-26 03:55:11 PM
1 votes:
Hey, now. I believe in tarot cards. I mean obviously they exist. You can go right to the store and get a deck. Fudge, they even have them in the dollar store.

I don't believe they can tell you the future, but they totally exist and they make great props.
2013-03-26 03:39:47 PM
1 votes:

Jubeebee: Why is detox in quackery/psuedoscience? Doesn't drug rehab show a lot of real efficacy?


Nevermind; apparently the weird diet bullshiat my mom does all of the time is called detox also.
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-03-26 03:31:17 PM
1 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: shiatsu massage feels awesome. Why isn't swedish massage on there too?


What about Fipina massage?  That feels REALLY awesome!
2013-03-26 03:23:36 PM
1 votes:
i.chzbgr.com
2013-03-26 03:12:55 PM
1 votes:

SlothB77: ROLFing?  is that like ROTFLMAO?


Does this turn you on? If so, you might be a ROWLFer.

25.media.tumblr.com
2013-03-26 11:42:02 AM
1 votes:
I believe in grammar.
2013-03-26 10:38:01 AM
1 votes:
God is a concept, by which we measure our pain.
2013-03-26 10:13:00 AM
1 votes:
So THATS why Scientology manages to stomp on my nerves every time it's mentioned. It's the culmination of all aspects of bollocks!

Thank's OP, today I have learned something :D
 
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