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(BBC)   It's a hard Knox life: Amanda Knox to be retried for murder in Italy   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 436
    More: Followup, Amanda Knox, American Amanda Knox, retrials, Italy, Leeds University, Kercher murder, ex-boyfriends, DNA evidence  
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7657 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Mar 2013 at 7:01 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-26 10:33:56 AM

DArque Bishop: ethics-gradient: GungFu:Yeah, that's how Americans see it.Everyone else sees somehow who lied, accused an innocent man and has generally shown to be a bit of a coont.

I'm British and I don't believe your version for a minute, it stinks like sh*te.
Anyone who has been picked up by a Mediterranean country's "police" and screamed at for several hours solid knows you're gonna end up saying what they want you to say. I was ready to "admit" to being a 6' German after only 2 hours (felt like much longer) so please spare me that "accused an innocent man" crap. She said what the police wanted, you would have done the same.
A charitable view is that you're naive in the ways of the world.

Zeb Hesselgresser: You just can't stress this enough, when questioned by the police, STFU

These two statements remind me of the "Don't Talk to Police" video.  Specifically, it reminds me of the second half, where the police officer points out that in other countries (and I'm sure Italy is one he means) they start out interrogations using fists instead of words.  I would not put much stock in anything Amanda Knox said to authorities, especially if she didn't have an attorney (or as has been said, even a professional translator) present...


When we moved to Germany with the US military we were briefed on the fact that both German and French (we are near thr french border) are quick to beat the crap out of anyone they think is even associated with a crime. A good friend of mine was beaten when the polizei showed up outside a club where my friend was one of dozens who were watching 2 people get into a street fight. We were also warned that the German and French are quick to harass americans and especially military, and especially people of color. My cousins are Italian (piedmontese) and they said that police are similar there. I have no doubt they slapped her around.
 
2013-03-26 10:35:35 AM

spiderpaz: Thunderpipes: ace in your face: I don't think the US would ever agree, especially since (fark lawyers chime in?) it would be illegal to retry her within our legal system.

Probably the key point here. US can refuse, especially if the country's court system is too harsh and different.

Besides, the EU is never real happy to extradite people back to us. Screw em.

We'll trade her for Roman Polanski


Roman Polanski was found guilty. Amanda Knox was acquitted.
 
2013-03-26 10:39:41 AM

Bungles: The "muddying of the waters" has already happened....as I was saying before, just compare the coverage inside the US and outside.

After the first trail, when she was found guilty, people oddly didn't consider he guilty.... just "presumed innocent until proven guilty...then still presume innocent".



Were you paying attention to the farce they called a trial?  I think that most of all, this case shows how anti-American sentiment in Europe (they love to use the US as a patsy to let themselves off the hook whenever possible) has grown to the point where it is today: a situation where they are so unhinged and irrational that they leap at the chance to draw wild conclusions like the one in this case, so long as it could potentially hurt an American.

The theory the prosecution has been pushing is a joke.
 
2013-03-26 10:40:56 AM

ace in your face: spiderpaz: Thunderpipes: ace in your face: I don't think the US would ever agree, especially since (fark lawyers chime in?) it would be illegal to retry her within our legal system.

Probably the key point here. US can refuse, especially if the country's court system is too harsh and different.

Besides, the EU is never real happy to extradite people back to us. Screw em.

We'll trade her for Roman Polanski

Roman Polanski was found guilty. Amanda Knox was acquitted.


I was just pointing out the EU's history of being ChoMo protecting twats when it comes to US extradition requests, so I hope we get to return the favor soon.
 
2013-03-26 10:43:26 AM

spiderpaz: Bungles: The "muddying of the waters" has already happened....as I was saying before, just compare the coverage inside the US and outside.

After the first trail, when she was found guilty, people oddly didn't consider he guilty.... just "presumed innocent until proven guilty...then still presume innocent".


Were you paying attention to the farce they called a trial?  I think that most of all, this case shows how anti-American sentiment in Europe (they love to use the US as a patsy to let themselves off the hook whenever possible) has grown to the point where it is today: a situation where they are so unhinged and irrational that they leap at the chance to draw wild conclusions like the one in this case, so long as it could potentially hurt an American.

The theory the prosecution has been pushing is a joke.



You've sort of proved my point.
 
2013-03-26 10:55:27 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Someone else who was tried in the media and was also acquitted:

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 422x512]


Of course she will never be tried again for the same crime. Apparently Italy can just get do-over after do-over until they get the verdict they want.
 
2013-03-26 11:01:35 AM

generallyso: Paris1127: /is that idiot Giuliano "ZOMG SATANIC RITUALS" Mignini still prosecuting?

Glad to see someone remembers this. The prosecutor is a complete nutjob.


Have you read  The Monster of Florence by Douglas Preston and Mario Spezi? Mignini's one of several villains in it, and both authors spend time debunking his  wild theories about the (still unsolved) Monster killings and satanic cults. Spezi has an understandable ax to grind, as Mignini put him in jail for several months on trumped-up charges related to the Monster case.
 
2013-03-26 11:06:37 AM
*Fark lawyers are always entertaining
 
2013-03-26 11:12:19 AM

Paris1127: Oh cavolo, non questa merda di nuovo...

/is that idiot Giuliano "ZOMG SATANIC RITUALS" Mignini still prosecuting?


Mignini should be in prison, or an insane asylum.
 
2013-03-26 11:18:01 AM
I have no idea if she's guilty or not, and I grant that the Italians have botched the job.

But it is irritating in the extreme when you have all these bloviating, white-knight Farkers who are so smug and sure that she's innocent that they taunt anyone who questions them with "No one ever gives any evidence.  They got nothin'!"  And they do this over and over again.  Then someone posts a list of the evidence that the prosecution considered significant, and those white knights just farking disappear.

/Except genius steverockson, who mentions "no link to Rudy Guede" right farking below eyewitness testimony of said link.
 
2013-03-26 11:19:08 AM

viscountalpha: Am I mistaken in thinking this is a load of garbage from the start?


That's exactly what it is.  Mignini is a clown with an inexplicable imagination.  He sees cults and orgies wherever he looks.
 
2013-03-26 11:20:22 AM

Paris1127: generallyso: Paris1127: /is that idiot Giuliano "ZOMG SATANIC RITUALS" Mignini still prosecuting?

Glad to see someone remembers this. The prosecutor is a complete nutjob.

Have you read  The Monster of Florence by Douglas Preston and Mario Spezi? Mignini's one of several villains in it, and both authors spend time debunking his  wild theories about the (still unsolved) Monster killings and satanic cults. Spezi has an understandable ax to grind, as Mignini put him in jail for several months on trumped-up charges related to the Monster case.


I'm gonna read that again, and another book (I forget the name, a woman author).
 
2013-03-26 11:20:30 AM
According to the story she is not required to show up, so what's the point?
 
2013-03-26 11:23:34 AM

generallyso: Paris1127: /is that idiot Giuliano "ZOMG SATANIC RITUALS" Mignini still prosecuting?

Glad to see someone remembers this. The prosecutor is a complete nutjob.


Yep, he is.   Highly recommend reading Douglas Preston's Monster of Florence.

 

Paris1127: Have you read The Monster of Florence by Douglas Preston and Mario Spezi? Mignini's one of several villains in it, and both authors spend time debunking his wild theories about the (still unsolved) Monster killings and satanic cults. Spezi has an understandable ax to grind, as Mignini put him in jail for several months on trumped-up charges related to the Monster case.


D'Oh, I see that's already covered.   Really can't recommed the book enough.

And Italy, I am very disappointed in you  :(
 
2013-03-26 11:24:42 AM

Msphere: But it is irritating in the extreme when you have all these bloviating, white-knight Farkers who are so smug and sure that she's innocent...


The court itself said she was innocent, that's what an acquittal means. I know this isn't the American Judicial system, but if it were that's it, she's not guilty.  And before you say "O.J.", yes he also is not guilty, of the murder anyway.  But apparently in Italy Double Jeopardy doesn't exist.
 
2013-03-26 11:25:07 AM
According to the extradition treaty with Italy:
ARTICLE VI
Non Bis in Idem
"Extradition shall not be granted when the person sought has been convicted, acquitted or pardoned, or has served the sentence imposed, by the Requested Party for the same acts for which extradition is requested."

Does this mean that extradition from the US is prohibited on double jeopardy grounds only if the person has been "convicted, acquitted or pardoned, or has served the sentence imposed" in the US?  Or does it mean that "Extradition shall not be granted... by the Requested Party" if the person sought has been convicted, acquitted or pardoned for the same acts in either the US or Italy?
 
2013-03-26 11:26:23 AM

FarkinNortherner: The US has a far from unblemished record in locking up and, indeed, executing innocent people, but I suspect most Americans would want a person who faced a murder charge in the US to be extradited from Italy, irrespective of the view of the case held by the Italian populace and/or its media.


The US justice system isn't perfect, granted -but the difference is that it's abundantly obvious that there is no evidence against her.

The possible explanations for the evening in question are as follows:

Theory 1: Some guy with a well-documented criminal history broke into the apartment where they were all staying and committed a horrible crime leaving his DNA and fingerprints all over the place and then skipping town before getting caught a few months later in Germany. Knox and her boyfriend came home the next day after a night of partying and thought something was a bit weird when her roommate wouldn't open the door and there was blood lying around the apartment so they called the police.

Theory 2: Knox and her boyfriend were performing a satanic sex-orgy ritual (no, seriously, that's actually what the prosecution alleges, with absolutely no evidence from their background to support this) and somehow cooperated with the guy who broke in and raped/murdered her roommate (who she was good friends with.) Somehow they were able to do this without leaving a single trace of DNA or fingerprint in the room, and when the random break-in rapist skipped down, they just decided to stick around and call police on themselves.

How. the. Fark. are these two theories being presented beside each other as if they have equal plausibility?

There' such a thing as proven guilty
there's "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" ->this is the point where you can go to jail.
There's "probably guilty but we can't prove it" -> at this point you go free
There's "50/50" -> at this point you go free and people should assume you really are innocent
there's "probably innocent"

....

and then way the hell down the line, there's "Almost definitely innocent, but we could concoct some utterly absurd scenario in which you might be guilty." -> that's where Amanda Knox and Sollecito are, and their lives are being ruined because of it. So yeah, fark the Italian "justice" system.

Unfortunately, While Knox can sit it out comfortably in Seattle, Sollecito is an Italian citizen. Sucks to be him.
 
2013-03-26 11:28:38 AM

olddinosaur: According to the story she is not required to show up, so what's the point?


The point is her Italian-citizen ex-boyfriend is also being charged, so while she can sit it out in the US, he's pretty much farked.
 
2013-03-26 11:35:06 AM

Msphere: I have no idea if she's guilty or not, and I grant that the Italians have botched the job.

But it is irritating in the extreme when you have all these bloviating, white-knight Farkers who are so smug and sure that she's innocent that they taunt anyone who questions them with "No one ever gives any evidence.  They got nothin'!"  And they do this over and over again.  Then someone posts a list of the evidence that the prosecution considered significant, and those white knights just farking disappear.

/Except genius steverockson, who mentions "no link to Rudy Guede" right farking below eyewitness testimony of said link.


People should probably stop posting "evidence" like "she sleeps with dudes" "she did cartwheels" "the boyfriend likes manga". Then they might be taken seriously.
 
2013-03-26 11:37:09 AM

manimal2878: ethics-gradient: manwithplanx: I'm curious as to whether the rest of the EU would have to hand her over should she go to any member country.

Yes I think we do, which is something I personally find appaling and frightening; that an incompetant system like Italy can reach out and grab people from here in the UK. (Not that the UK is perfect by any means, but the cynical stupidity of some of the other EU countries beats us by a long shot.)
Why did our politicians allow this? I reckon it's actually the same root cause as the Euro crisis, a refusal to admit to the glaring reality that different EU countries have very different standards of competance in policing, judiciary, government and finance. Let's face it, some countries are better at some things than others.

Had Knox and Sollecito been tried in a British court of law I'm sure the judge would have ruled case dismissed within less than a day and they would have walked free without a stain on their characters.

I didn't think the UK was a member of the EU.


What? The UK is a member of the EU, but not a member of the single currency Eurozone.
 
2013-03-26 11:38:09 AM
I am no extradition lawyer but wouldn't Italy have to present some sort of case to why the US should send her back?
 
2013-03-26 11:39:42 AM

Msphere: I have no idea if she's guilty or not, and I grant that the Italians have botched the job.

But it is irritating in the extreme when you have all these bloviating, white-knight Farkers who are so smug and sure that she's innocent that they taunt anyone who questions them with "No one ever gives any evidence.  They got nothin'!"  And they do this over and over again.  Then someone posts a list of the evidence that the prosecution considered significant, and those white knights just farking disappear.

/Except genius steverockson, who mentions "no link to Rudy Guede" right farking below eyewitness testimony of said link.


I may not be a genius but I can read what the appeals judges wrote about it:
The association between Sollecito, Knox, and Guede was "not corroborated by any evidence" and "far from probable".
 
2013-03-26 11:41:19 AM

FarkinNortherner: I'm deeply puzzled why there's not only a belief the US won't extradite her but that this is a good thing.

The US has a far from unblemished record in locking up and, indeed, executing innocent people, but I suspect most Americans would want a person who faced a murder charge in the US to be extradited from Italy, irrespective of the view of the case held by the Italian populace and/or its media.


She was already tried and acquitted.  We object to sending her back for a second round.
 
2013-03-26 11:44:55 AM
It really doesn't matter if she is innocent or not.People go to jail all time for things they didn't do.And at the same time people get off for crimes they did commit.It is just about how you play the game.
 
2013-03-26 11:45:13 AM
Mignini probably blew the il Mostro case for all time and he sees satanists under every doorstop.  The case is bullshiat and this retrial is bullshiat.
 
2013-03-26 11:46:51 AM

ukexpat: manimal2878: ethics-gradient: manwithplanx: I'm curious as to whether the rest of the EU would have to hand her over should she go to any member country.

Yes I think we do, which is something I personally find appaling and frightening; that an incompetant system like Italy can reach out and grab people from here in the UK. (Not that the UK is perfect by any means, but the cynical stupidity of some of the other EU countries beats us by a long shot.)
Why did our politicians allow this? I reckon it's actually the same root cause as the Euro crisis, a refusal to admit to the glaring reality that different EU countries have very different standards of competance in policing, judiciary, government and finance. Let's face it, some countries are better at some things than others.

Had Knox and Sollecito been tried in a British court of law I'm sure the judge would have ruled case dismissed within less than a day and they would have walked free without a stain on their characters.

I didn't think the UK was a member of the EU.

What? The UK is a member of the EU, but not a member of the single currency Eurozone.


I know that the UK was part of the EU but it's annoying that you have to go through customs inspections because they are not part of the Schengen Agreement. At least you go through customs before you board the trains, at least in Paris.
 
2013-03-26 11:47:00 AM

miss diminutive: Arthur Jumbles: GungFu: miss diminutive: I completely missed this case the first time around, but was there actually any evidence against her or was it simply a case of local authorities needing to pin it on someone and she was simply a suspect by virtue of living in the house?

Yeah, that's how Americans see it.

Everyone else sees somehow who lied, accused an innocent man and has generally shown to be a bit of a coont.

[i.telegraph.co.uk image 460x288]

Isn't this man, Rudy Guede, already in jail for raping and murdering Kercher?

Well he should definitely spend some time behind bars for forever ruining the beret with his giant fivehead.


Well done.
 
2013-03-26 11:50:39 AM

Popcorn Johnny: The good thing about this is that she'll most likely end up having to do porn to pay her legal bills.

[blogs.seattleweekly.com image 300x300]

Oh yeah, that's it.


Well, she already engaged in a satanic sex orgy that went wildly wrong, or something that could only be improved if someone could work in "heavy metal music" and "satanic ritual abuse".
 
2013-03-26 11:52:07 AM
Again, the idiotic prosecutor was working from a theory that Knox and Sollecito killed Kercher with Lumumba (whom they knew well and WERE and associated with).  When they matched the DNA to Guede the idiotic prosecutors just substituted Guede for Lumumba in their scenario. Problem Solved! (except for the fact that Knox and Sollecito were in no way connected to Guede).
 
2013-03-26 11:52:49 AM

joeflood: Popcorn Johnny: The good thing about this is that she'll most likely end up having to do porn to pay her legal bills.

[blogs.seattleweekly.com image 300x300]

Oh yeah, that's it.

Well, she already engaged in a satanic sex orgy that went wildly wrong, or something that could only be improved if someone could work in "heavy metal music" and "satanic ritual abuse".



Are we talking about Amanda Knox or the West Memphis 3?  I get confused...
 
2013-03-26 11:53:50 AM

joeflood: Popcorn Johnny: The good thing about this is that she'll most likely end up having to do porn to pay her legal bills.

[blogs.seattleweekly.com image 300x300]

Oh yeah, that's it.

Well, she already engaged in a satanic sex orgy that went wildly wrong, or something that could only be improved if someone could work in "heavy metal music" and "satanic ritual abuse".


Are we talking about Amanda Knox or the West Memphis 3?  I get confused...
 
2013-03-26 11:58:23 AM

spentmiles: Who in the hell will ever date this chick?  There's probably dudes that would fark her, but there's no way they'd ever fall asleep beside her.


I would have no qualms sleeping next to her. Never in a case like this have I been more confident of someone's innocence.  I've yet to see a single piece of evidence linking her to the crime. The best anyone has come up with is she acted strange or their "gift" told them.

People react to grief differently, especially when usual support structures are absent.  And it wasn't like her best friend was killed, it was her roommate she only had known for a little.  The fact is they found the real killer, and there is no shred of evidence or any reasonable theory that could even put the three in the same room.

Should I ever meet Amanda, the first thing I would do is shake her hand and tell her how awful I think what she had been put through was.  If your idiots would stay away, I'd gladly take this clearly innocent girl.
 
2013-03-26 12:00:43 PM
StreetlightInTheGhetto:
/Traypack, that's what you're calling the deceased kid now?
//just call him by  his goddamn name\


Seriously? Not sayin' I necessarily disagree with your sentiment, but is this really the place to get all butthurt about name calling?

Or is it only OK to do that for people/figures/politicians you don't like? Ever look in the Politics tab? Seems like Fark pretty could pretty much own the intellectual property rights on every spiteful name that could possibly be associated with anyone outside of fark's mainstream ideology.

Hypocrisy. You're doing it right!
 
2013-03-26 12:01:11 PM

steverockson: Again, the idiotic prosecutor was working from a theory that Knox and Sollecito killed Kercher with Lumumba (whom they knew well and WERE and associated with).  When they matched the DNA to Guede the idiotic prosecutors just substituted Guede for Lumumba in their scenario. Problem Solved! (except for the fact that Knox and Sollecito were in no way connected to Guede).


There was no, zero, evidence or reason to believe that Knox or Sollecito was involved.

All the rest is Mignini's imagination and Italy's incompetence.
 
2013-03-26 12:09:52 PM

BgJonson79: FarkinNortherner: I'm deeply puzzled why there's not only a belief the US won't extradite her but that this is a good thing.

The US has a far from unblemished record in locking up and, indeed, executing innocent people, but I suspect most Americans would want a person who faced a murder charge in the US to be extradited from Italy, irrespective of the view of the case held by the Italian populace and/or its media.

She was already tried and acquitted.  We object to sending her back for a second round.


That's not what is happening. Italy has three tiers of justice. This is the third (Trial...Appeal..Supreme Court review of the appeal). This is perfectly normal, and not a "second trial", it's the final stage of the appeal process.
 
2013-03-26 12:11:46 PM

Thunderpipes: Traypack is his name, or should I use no_limit_N****? He was a thug wanna be.


You know, after how easily I made you look like a farking idiot, running from the thread the last time I encountered you, it shouldn't surprise me that this kind of backward thinking is part and parcel of your mindset. The disgusting racism (or is now culture bigotry?) comes off you in waves. The stink of hatred for all who think or believe differently than you is palpable. Your views are no longer considered due for consideration in my book. You are a disgusting human being and not worthy of being responded to. I like playing with trolls and spirited debate is fine, but this...this just disgusts me. You are a farking cocksucker. Unless you call me out directly (which you won't because you already know I'm smarter than you) I will never respond to you again, and furthermore, FARK degrades itself by permitting your presence in this already racist shiathole.
 
2013-03-26 12:13:08 PM
So. Taking the Knox, Sollecito and Kercher case as the good example it is what might we learn from it on a larger scale?

I believe this case is emblematic of the self serving, cynical, lazy ignorance of many conspiracy theorists that is rife in modern society but seems to hold more ground than it should in Italy. Their thinking is so often: "Life is complicated, the Yankees are naive and do not understand that behind everything is a deep dark conspiracy. Involving sex. Therefore it was not a case of a local murdering Kercher. Because that makes us uncomfortable."
Yes life is sometimes so, but when it comes to the actions of murderers and rapists the simplest answer is usually true, albeit often hidden under a veil of illogic and bullshiat. The naivity and ignorance is, as is so often the case, on the side of the conspiracists. Fundamentally this is ineducated people trying to appear educated.

The fundamental flaw in the EU is that it pretends that a country where this kind of thinking has infected even people holding such an eminent position as a local prosecutor is on the same level as a well run sober north European country. Not just in legal matters but many others the EU is not sustainable in the long term until Europe's diversity is admitted to and factored in.

We have not done much better here in the UK as many have swallowed the bullshiat line fed by the tabloid press about this, and many other things. Why?
Until this case I had honestly supposed that many tabloiud hacks wer cynically spouting lies. However seeing that Kercher's father, a tabloid reporter himself, actually believed the pathetic rubbish that the Italians came up with which allowed the man who murdered and raped his daughter to get off lightly, it looks like some of them actually believe this crap.
The bottom line is that I am less concerned about the new press control law coming out her in the UK because I think that much of "our" media is so irresponsible, ignorant and gullible that it should not be trusted whith so much power.

Overall the Kercher case is a particularly clear case of the power of the mob.
 
2013-03-26 12:13:48 PM
I don't know whether she's innocent or guilty; only she knows. She's been acquitted; it should be left at that and not turned into another ridiculous circus.
 
2013-03-26 12:18:40 PM

Msphere: I have no idea if she's guilty or not, and I grant that the Italians have botched the job.

But it is irritating in the extreme when you have all these bloviating, white-knight Farkers who are so smug and sure that she's innocent that they taunt anyone who questions them with "No one ever gives any evidence.  They got nothin'!"  And they do this over and over again.  Then someone posts a list of the evidence that the prosecution considered significant, and those white knights just farking disappear.

/Except genius steverockson, who mentions "no link to Rudy Guede" right farking below eyewitness testimony of said link.


If you're talking about that list a few posts up, that really makes no sense at all. Needs more context, but yeah, I see your point.
 
2013-03-26 12:20:07 PM

ACunningPlan: I don't know whether she's innocent or guilty; only she knows. She's been acquitted; it should be left at that and not turned into another ridiculous circus.


This is part of the same process. The Supreme Court reviews appeal cases. It's not another circus. It's the same circus.
 
2013-03-26 12:20:43 PM

Bungles: BgJonson79: FarkinNortherner: I'm deeply puzzled why there's not only a belief the US won't extradite her but that this is a good thing.

The US has a far from unblemished record in locking up and, indeed, executing innocent people, but I suspect most Americans would want a person who faced a murder charge in the US to be extradited from Italy, irrespective of the view of the case held by the Italian populace and/or its media.

She was already tried and acquitted.  We object to sending her back for a second round.

That's not what is happening. Italy has three tiers of justice. This is the third (Trial...Appeal..Supreme Court review of the appeal). This is perfectly normal, and not a "second trial", it's the final stage of the appeal process.


Our point exactly. The prosecution doesn't get to appeal here like it does in Italy. Most Americans find this very distasteful.
 
2013-03-26 12:22:34 PM

Madbassist1: Msphere: I have no idea if she's guilty or not, and I grant that the Italians have botched the job.

But it is irritating in the extreme when you have all these bloviating, white-knight Farkers who are so smug and sure that she's innocent that they taunt anyone who questions them with "No one ever gives any evidence.  They got nothin'!"  And they do this over and over again.  Then someone posts a list of the evidence that the prosecution considered significant, and those white knights just farking disappear.

/Except genius steverockson, who mentions "no link to Rudy Guede" right farking below eyewitness testimony of said link.

If you're talking about that list a few posts up, that really makes no sense at all. Needs more context, but yeah, I see your point.


I didn't disappear.  I posted a quote from the judges on the appeals panel, here it is again:
The association between Sollecito, Knox, and Guede was "not corroborated by any evidence" and "far from probable".
 
2013-03-26 12:24:49 PM

R.A.Danny: Bungles: BgJonson79: FarkinNortherner: I'm deeply puzzled why there's not only a belief the US won't extradite her but that this is a good thing.

The US has a far from unblemished record in locking up and, indeed, executing innocent people, but I suspect most Americans would want a person who faced a murder charge in the US to be extradited from Italy, irrespective of the view of the case held by the Italian populace and/or its media.

She was already tried and acquitted.  We object to sending her back for a second round.

That's not what is happening. Italy has three tiers of justice. This is the third (Trial...Appeal..Supreme Court review of the appeal). This is perfectly normal, and not a "second trial", it's the final stage of the appeal process.

Our point exactly. The prosecution doesn't get to appeal here like it does in Italy. Most Americans find this very distasteful.



The US has multiple rounds of appeal for the defense, that can last decades. How is this system any stranger?

It's pretty simple. You have a trial. You can appeal at the end of that trial. Given there have been two courts disagreeing, the case then, finally, reaches the Supreme Court to judge whether the trail and appeal were fair.

It seems quite a logical system,
 
2013-03-26 12:26:51 PM

Bungles: R.A.Danny: Bungles: BgJonson79: FarkinNortherner: I'm deeply puzzled why there's not only a belief the US won't extradite her but that this is a good thing.

The US has a far from unblemished record in locking up and, indeed, executing innocent people, but I suspect most Americans would want a person who faced a murder charge in the US to be extradited from Italy, irrespective of the view of the case held by the Italian populace and/or its media.

She was already tried and acquitted.  We object to sending her back for a second round.

That's not what is happening. Italy has three tiers of justice. This is the third (Trial...Appeal..Supreme Court review of the appeal). This is perfectly normal, and not a "second trial", it's the final stage of the appeal process.

Our point exactly. The prosecution doesn't get to appeal here like it does in Italy. Most Americans find this very distasteful.


The US has multiple rounds of appeal for the defense, that can last decades. How is this system any stranger?

It's pretty simple. You have a trial. You can appeal at the end of that trial. Given there have been two courts disagreeing, the case then, finally, reaches the Supreme Court to judge whether the trail and appeal were fair.

It seems quite a logical system,


It still haven't figure out why you think she's guilty.  Knox has not connection to the guy that actually killed Kercher.
 
2013-03-26 12:31:34 PM

poot42: While I don't think a re-trial should be allowed, there remain so many questions about what really happened to her room-mate over there.  I don't recall that ever being clarified.  Anybody really know?


It's pretty clear she was murdered by an intruder.  Probably a surprised-the-burglar-who-panics case.

For some insane reason the prosecutor decided to go after her and her boyfriend also despite no real evidence indicating they had anything to do with it.  (The only "evidence" is sloppy police work.)

CheatCommando: On the other hand, from further reading it appears that in the Knox case we have an initial conviction overturned on appeal that the high court is throwing back for retrial. That's actually not double jeopardy.


Agreed.  It's not double jeopardy.

chrylis: This is less of a problem with the legal system generally as with prosecutors whose career prospects depend on putting people in jail, not justice, and who also can't ever admit to convicting (or usually even prosecuting) an innocent person. Even for the ones who want to be honest, cognitive dissonance sets in and you end up with arguments that DNA testing of old convictions shouldn't be allowed because it might call into question old convictions.


A prosecutor or politician that argues that should be executed.

DArque Bishop: These two statements remind me of the "Don't Talk to Police" video. Specifically, it reminds me of the second half, where the police officer points out that in other countries (and I'm sure Italy is one he means) they start out interrogations using fists instead of words. I would not put much stock in anything Amanda Knox said to authorities, especially if she didn't have an attorney (or as has been said, even a professional translator) present...


Yeah, when you don't speak a language at the native level you shouldn't try to communicate really important matters in it, especially where errors can't reasonably be corrected.

I'm married to a woman who didn't grow up with a word of English.  Over the years there have been some pretty big misunderstandings--normally corrected very quickly but that's because it's a loving relationship, not an adversarial one.  Even now I wouldn't want her in a courtroom without a translator.

Msphere: I have no idea if she's guilty or not, and I grant that the Italians have botched the job.

But it is irritating in the extreme when you have all these bloviating, white-knight Farkers who are so smug and sure that she's innocent that they taunt anyone who questions them with "No one ever gives any evidence.  They got nothin'!"  And they do this over and over again.  Then someone posts a list of the evidence that the prosecution considered significant, and those white knights just farking disappear.

/Except genius steverockson, who mentions "no link to Rudy Guede" right farking below eyewitness testimony of said link.


Except most of that list is the police botching the job.  Most of the rest was statements under duress and confusion and should be thrown.  That basically leaves some DNA--and they were living in the same house, some DNA spread is to be expected.
 
2013-03-26 12:31:50 PM

steverockson: Bungles: R.A.Danny: Bungles: BgJonson79: FarkinNortherner: I'm deeply puzzled why there's not only a belief the US won't extradite her but that this is a good thing.

The US has a far from unblemished record in locking up and, indeed, executing innocent people, but I suspect most Americans would want a person who faced a murder charge in the US to be extradited from Italy, irrespective of the view of the case held by the Italian populace and/or its media.

She was already tried and acquitted.  We object to sending her back for a second round.

That's not what is happening. Italy has three tiers of justice. This is the third (Trial...Appeal..Supreme Court review of the appeal). This is perfectly normal, and not a "second trial", it's the final stage of the appeal process.

Our point exactly. The prosecution doesn't get to appeal here like it does in Italy. Most Americans find this very distasteful.


The US has multiple rounds of appeal for the defense, that can last decades. How is this system any stranger?

It's pretty simple. You have a trial. You can appeal at the end of that trial. Given there have been two courts disagreeing, the case then, finally, reaches the Supreme Court to judge whether the trail and appeal were fair.

It seems quite a logical system,

It still haven't figure out why you think she's guilty.  Knox has not connection to the guy that actually killed Kercher.



I don't necessarily think she's guilty. I think there was a botched trial, an appeal compromised by an international media descending on a tiny court, and a whole load of unanswered questions.

I strongly suspect she's lying over key issues, as outlined in the evidence list previously posted, but I don't know what happened. That doesn't mean she's guilty, it just means, for reasons unknown, she's lying.

I think the Kerchers deserve a proper trail to dig out the truth, given they are the ones who are suffering here.
 
2013-03-26 12:34:26 PM

Bungles: ACunningPlan: I don't know whether she's innocent or guilty; only she knows. She's been acquitted; it should be left at that and not turned into another ridiculous circus.

This is part of the same process. The Supreme Court reviews appeal cases. It's not another circus. It's the same circus.


Thanks for that:)  Out of interest, what happens if TSC finds her guilty - not on the extradition front - do the defence then get to appeal that decision?
 
2013-03-26 12:38:35 PM

ACunningPlan: Bungles: ACunningPlan: I don't know whether she's innocent or guilty; only she knows. She's been acquitted; it should be left at that and not turned into another ridiculous circus.

This is part of the same process. The Supreme Court reviews appeal cases. It's not another circus. It's the same circus.

Thanks for that:)  Out of interest, what happens if TSC finds her guilty - not on the extradition front - do the defence then get to appeal that decision?


That I cannot tell you. I'd presume from the overview on the BBC, that this process could theoretically be repeated until the main court and the appeal court agree (which, when you think about, is sensible..... but a  mindbogglingly long process. If everything is done correctly the two courts *should* agree)
 
2013-03-26 12:40:12 PM
Why would the US ever turn over an American citizen.
 
2013-03-26 12:41:58 PM

GungFu: Bruce Campbell: GungFu: I'm under custody for a potential murder, and I say, it wasn't me, it was this other guy (who's innocent) and basically, it's not my fault for accusing him and if he gets detained in prison for two weeks while the cops investigate whether I was telling teh truth or not.

Fark me, you are retarded. No wonder people think she's entirely innocent. Retard thinking does that, I suppose.

I'm retarded for expecting investigators to determine the veracity of an accusation, especially one given while under duress, more rapidly and intelligently than taking two farking weeks.  Good to know.

Prick.


Trying to backtrack. Prick.


The italian justice system's not gonna FARK you.
 
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