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(ESPN)   UMN pays $3.35M to transition from a clean, honest basketball program, to a dirty, winning one   (espn.go.com) divider line 69
    More: Interesting, Tubby Smith, Minnesota, Golden Gophers, academic fraud, Flip Saunders, Tom Izzo, NIT, basketball  
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2123 clicks; posted to Sports » on 26 Mar 2013 at 8:48 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-26 08:33:11 AM
Why pay someone millions of dollars to coach boys and teach them the game when you can just "recruit" second tier high school stars who will just throw elbows and hard fouls like Ohio St.?
 
2013-03-26 09:05:46 AM
Dumb firing, Minnesota.  I will be interested how long it takes you to regain relevance.
 
2013-03-26 09:13:05 AM
Then I got home and read this and ROFL'd.
 
2013-03-26 09:41:04 AM
Receive extension to start the season, then:

*20 wins against what was one of the toughest schedules in all of basketball.
*Knock off #1 Indiana
*Win a tournament game against a higher seed
*Get fired

I can't wait to see what their next move is, because I'm betting on them regretting it.
 
2013-03-26 09:43:55 AM
I feel bad for Tubby. He has always been a class act and a great X's and O's coach. And I really don't know what Minnesota expects.
 
2013-03-26 09:43:59 AM
We've got a good hockey program anyway.
 
2013-03-26 09:50:30 AM

babysealclubber: And I really don't know what Minnesota expects.


They want in the Shaka sweepstakes. Because they can compete with UCLA.
 
2013-03-26 09:52:25 AM

babysealclubber: I feel bad for Tubby. He has always been a class act and a great X's and O's coach. And I really don't know what Minnesota expects.


THIS - he walked into a program that was in shambles and did a decent job at turning it around despite it all.  Shame on them...
 
2013-03-26 09:55:45 AM

Wild Eyed and Wicked: babysealclubber: I feel bad for Tubby. He has always been a class act and a great X's and O's coach. And I really don't know what Minnesota expects.

THIS - he walked into a program that was in shambles and did a decent job at turning it around despite it all.  Shame on them...


A team full of sixth year seniors won one tourney game.
 
2013-03-26 09:56:01 AM
Tubby was one of the highest paid coaches in college ball. We expected his teams to win, especially at the end of the year and finish higher than 6th in the Big Ten. The Gophers started 15-1 and finished 21-13. That's not what you pay top dollar for. He's a class act, but he's not a great coach.

30/70 they can get Shaka, 99% sure they'll get a big name (FCGU guy, Buzz Williams or Jay Wright if Shaka falls through).
 
2013-03-26 10:09:23 AM

funk_soul_bubby: babysealclubber: And I really don't know what Minnesota expects.

They want in the Shaka sweepstakes. Because they can compete with UCLA.


Shaka had a chance to bolt after last year for 2-2.5 million, so they'll need to offer him at least that much. Plus, if a team gets him to leave, they'll have to pay VCU another 700,000 on top of that. They should have just saved themselves some money and kept the coach they have.
 
2013-03-26 10:17:36 AM

babysealclubber: I feel bad for Tubby. He has always been a class act and a great X's and O's coach. And I really don't know what Minnesota expects.


We expect a team that can go .500 in conference play, for starters.
 
2013-03-26 10:19:06 AM

ToughBobby: That's not what you pay top dollar for. He's a class act, but he's not a great coach.


Sounds racist to me. Bunch of racist Scandanavians in Minnesota didn't recognize a good coach when they had one. Winning's more important to you guys than the spirit of college athletics.

I guess I should have expected that from the school that once hired Clem Haskins. How's that academic fraud working out for you? It's gotta hurt to have that vacated Final Four.

Racists.
 
2013-03-26 10:39:51 AM

hobnail: babysealclubber: I feel bad for Tubby. He has always been a class act and a great X's and O's coach. And I really don't know what Minnesota expects.

We expect a team that can go .500 in conference play, for starters.


MNguy: Wild Eyed and Wicked: babysealclubber: I feel bad for Tubby. He has always been a class act and a great X's and O's coach. And I really don't know what Minnesota expects.

THIS - he walked into a program that was in shambles and did a decent job at turning it around despite it all.  Shame on them...

A team full of sixth year seniors won one tourney game.


Because you win so many tournament games when tutors aren't writing term papers for your team.
 
2013-03-26 10:43:10 AM
I say hire Bobby Jackson. Sure, you can say he was involved in the scandal... But that doesn't officially exist, remember?
 
2013-03-26 10:43:29 AM

tacos4jesus: Dumb firing, Minnesota.  I will be interested how long it takes you to regain relevance.


FTFY.
 
2013-03-26 10:43:37 AM

Gonz: ToughBobby: That's not what you pay top dollar for. He's a class act, but he's not a great coach.

Sounds racist to me. Bunch of racist Scandanavians in Minnesota didn't recognize a good coach when they had one. Winning's more important to you guys than the spirit of college athletics.

I guess I should have expected that from the school that once hired Clem Haskins. How's that academic fraud working out for you? It's gotta hurt to have that vacated Final Four.

Racists.


How is it racist to prefer hockey?
 
2013-03-26 10:47:10 AM
It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Minnesota had somehow won that Florida game and not exited in the same round of the tournament as VCU did.

The A.D. wants his own guy.
 
2013-03-26 10:49:00 AM

KiwDaWabbit: It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Minnesota had somehow won that Florida game and not exited in the same round of the tournament as VCU did.

The A.D. wants his own guy.


And it's going to cost 2-2.5 million
 
2013-03-26 10:49:20 AM

ToughBobby: Tubby was one of the highest paid coaches in college ball. We expected his teams to win, especially at the end of the year and finish higher than 6th in the Big Ten. The Gophers started 15-1 and finished 21-13. That's not what you pay top dollar for. He's a class act, but he's not a great coach.

30/70 they can get Shaka, 99% sure they'll get a big name (FCGU guy, Buzz Williams or Jay Wright if Shaka falls through).


And now they will be a sub .500 team for the next decade.
 
2013-03-26 10:50:18 AM

babysealclubber: hobnail: babysealclubber: I feel bad for Tubby. He has always been a class act and a great X's and O's coach. And I really don't know what Minnesota expects.

We expect a team that can go .500 in conference play, for starters.

MNguy: Wild Eyed and Wicked: babysealclubber: I feel bad for Tubby. He has always been a class act and a great X's and O's coach. And I really don't know what Minnesota expects.

THIS - he walked into a program that was in shambles and did a decent job at turning it around despite it all.  Shame on them...

A team full of sixth year seniors won one tourney game.

Because you win so many tournament games when tutors aren't writing term papers for your team.


The Clem era worked out ok for us.
 
2013-03-26 10:50:58 AM
I hear Sid took it well.
 
2013-03-26 10:57:47 AM

MNguy: KiwDaWabbit: It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Minnesota had somehow won that Florida game and not exited in the same round of the tournament as VCU did.

The A.D. wants his own guy.

And it's going to cost 2-2.5 million


At least that much to sign Shaka. Plus 700,000 to pay off VCU, plus 2.5 million to buy out Tubby. It's going to be expensive for them and they still might not get the guy they want.
 
2013-03-26 10:59:03 AM

ToughBobby: Tubby was one of the highest paid coaches in college ball. We expected his teams to win, especially at the end of the year and finish higher than 6th in the Big Ten. The Gophers started 15-1 and finished 21-13. That's not what you pay top dollar for. He's a class act, but he's not a great coach.

30/70 they can get Shaka, 99% sure they'll get a big name (FCGU guy, Buzz Williams or Jay Wright if Shaka falls through).


How can the "FCGU guy" possibly be a big name if you don't even know his name or the correct name of the university he coaches? His name is Andy Enfield and he coaches at FGCU (not FCGU). He is a Johns Hopkins grad, multi-millionaire entrepreneur, married to a super model and he lives on a beach. Plus now he'll be forever worshipped as a god by the FGCU community. Coaching is more of a hobby for this guy and he doesn't need the money. So odds of decamping for St. Paul... 0.00000000%.
 
2013-03-26 11:05:14 AM

MNguy: KiwDaWabbit: It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Minnesota had somehow won that Florida game and not exited in the same round of the tournament as VCU did.

The A.D. wants his own guy.

And it's going to cost 2-2.5 million


Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the A.D.

2.5 million is a lot of money to me, and it could possibly be the same for you, I don't know. But, in the sports world, it's a different story. This is especially the case with where the Big Ten is going with expansion. They are doing so in what appears to be a well-planned out and diversified way (meaning that football alone isn't the driving factor). The ever-evolving cash cow will ultimately benefit every member institution. I understand that we're talking future versus present money, but Minnesota could be thinking long-term here, as Shaka is pretty young. Or, it could be pure ego on the A.D.'s part and something that could backfire big time.

I guess time will tell.
 
2013-03-26 11:08:03 AM
I talked to all of my Minnesota friends and they're happy Tubby is gone. Basically, they told me that he's just not good at coaching - he'll recruit guys and they won't improve for four years, or they'll transfer out and become stars somewhere else. Meanwhile there doesn't seem to be any plan on offense.

Hell, they wanted him gone before this year and were upset when the team beat Indiana.
 
2013-03-26 11:18:47 AM
How is paying a guy ~$3 million to not work even remotely responsible when the university had mandatory furloughs in the past several years?  I don't mind if the Lakers or whatever professional sports team decide they want to cycle through freshly extended coaches, but a state-funded university doing it is pretty ridiculous.

/No idea how sufficiently self-funded the athletic program at Minnesota is
 
2013-03-26 11:20:39 AM

rcf1105: Basically, they told me that he's just not good at coaching - he'll recruit guys and they won't improve for four years, or they'll transfer out and become stars somewhere else. Meanwhile there doesn't seem to be any plan on offense.


See? That's what I'm talking about- racism, pure and simple.

Completely misplaced priorities, too. We've even got a guy in this thread speaking fondly about their vacated Final Four.
 
2013-03-26 11:22:54 AM

logggur: How is paying a guy ~$3 million to not work even remotely responsible when the university had mandatory furloughs in the past several years?  I don't mind if the Lakers or whatever professional sports team decide they want to cycle through freshly extended coaches, but a state-funded university doing it is pretty ridiculous.

/No idea how sufficiently self-funded the athletic program at Minnesota is


Paraphrasing, the way that they will always explain it is, "The funds come from different sources and are therefore unrelated."

/Cognitive dissonance, how does it work?
 
2013-03-26 11:23:51 AM

babysealclubber: And I really don't know what Minnesota expects.



Smith's teams never finished above .500 in Big Ten play, and his overall conference record was 46-62. His teams generally started strong then faded; the past three years the Gophers had a combined 48-16 record entering February, and a 5-17 record during the month. Attendance had been on the decline for several years, to 11,316 in 2011-12, a drop of more than 2,000 fans per game over two seasons.
Smith's Minnesota programs had also been marked by transfers of talented players, and several recent disciplinary problems


Better than .500 in the conference at least once in 6 years?
 
2013-03-26 11:30:05 AM

KiwDaWabbit: logggur: How is paying a guy ~$3 million to not work even remotely responsible when the university had mandatory furloughs in the past several years?  I don't mind if the Lakers or whatever professional sports team decide they want to cycle through freshly extended coaches, but a state-funded university doing it is pretty ridiculous.

/No idea how sufficiently self-funded the athletic program at Minnesota is

Paraphrasing, the way that they will always explain it is, "The funds come from different sources and are therefore unrelated."

/Cognitive dissonance, how does it work?


I mean, that's the answer I was expecting, but I'm not sure how this counts as cognitive dissonance.   Or do you mean that that's the reasoning that the fanbase/taxpayers will use to justify it to themselves?
 
2013-03-26 11:31:58 AM

Gonz: rcf1105: Basically, they told me that he's just not good at coaching - he'll recruit guys and they won't improve for four years, or they'll transfer out and become stars somewhere else. Meanwhile there doesn't seem to be any plan on offense.

See? That's what I'm talking about- racism, pure and simple.

Completely misplaced priorities, too. We've even got a guy in this thread speaking fondly about their vacated Final Four.


Looks like I'm not the only one who remembers this:
"C'mon, no one's mentioned that Tubby's black at Adolph Rupp's old school? Tell me there was no racism involved in running Tubby out of town.

That said, here in MN we are flabbergasted. No one saw this coming, and people are majorly pumped up. "


http://www.fark.com/comments/2690332/University-of-Kentucky-basketba ll -coach-Tubby-Smith-departing-UK-for-University-of-Minnesota-Duke-sucks
 
2013-03-26 11:34:55 AM

funk_soul_bubby: They want in the Shaka sweepstakes. Because they can compete with UCLA.


As has been widely reported, MN's AD hired Smart at VCU. They have a good relationship. Smart grew up in the midwest (Madison).
OTOH, he turned down Illinois last year, and they seemed to be offering him a lot of money.

I do think it would be hilarious if MN beat UCLA in the tournament, then took the coach they wanted.
Remains to be seen how well Smart's style would work in the B1G though... "havoc" didn't didn't seem to present many problems for Michigan.

Other than Smart, the papers are mentioning Buzz Williams, Fred Hoiberg, Flip Saunders, (MSU assistant) Dwayne Stephens, and of course (although highly unlikely) Brad Stevens.
 
2013-03-26 11:45:57 AM

iamskibibitz: So odds of decamping for St. Paul... 0.00000000%.


Agreed, especially since the University (except the Ag program) and arena are in Minneapolis.Worshiped like a god "by the FGCU community"... lol.

//I don't think they'll even go after the guy personally
//newest trend in college sports, find coaches with models for wives
 
2013-03-26 11:45:58 AM

colonel0sanders: Looks like I'm not the only one who remembers this:


You're not, indeed. Also, talk about comedy gold from that thread: "Why would a black kid who was 17 right now want to go to your racist white trash frat house of a school? What has he seen from your school since his birth in 1990 that would make him pass up two dozen other free rides for your plantation? You really think he gives a sh*t who Adolph Rupp was?!
Just like Alabama football (one title in the last quarter-century). No class, no clue, and apparently no ability to check the date on the newspaper reading '2007'."
 
2013-03-26 11:57:48 AM
Minnesota will have a hard time getting better results
 
2013-03-26 11:57:53 AM

tallguywithglasseson: babysealclubber: And I really don't know what Minnesota expects.


Smith's teams never finished above .500 in Big Ten play, and his overall conference record was 46-62. His teams generally started strong then faded; the past three years the Gophers had a combined 48-16 record entering February, and a 5-17 record during the month. Attendance had been on the decline for several years, to 11,316 in 2011-12, a drop of more than 2,000 fans per game over two seasons.
Smith's Minnesota programs had also been marked by transfers of talented players, and several recent disciplinary problems

Better than .500 in the conference at least once in 6 years?


Like all of those years before?
 
2013-03-26 11:58:29 AM

Gonz: rcf1105: Basically, they told me that he's just not good at coaching - he'll recruit guys and they won't improve for four years, or they'll transfer out and become stars somewhere else. Meanwhile there doesn't seem to be any plan on offense.

See? That's what I'm talking about- racism, pure and simple.

Completely misplaced priorities, too. We've even got a guy in this thread speaking fondly about their vacated Final Four.


I know what you're doing. And I like it.
 
2013-03-26 12:14:24 PM

babysealclubber: Like all of those years before?


How is that even an argument for keeping Smith?

Tubby was being paid a huge salary. He wasn't able to attract or keep top in-state talent, to say nothing of competing for top-tier regional (or national) talent. He wasn't able to get the team above .500 in the conference (or IIRC, above a 6th place finish) with 6 years of getting his recruits, coaches, systems in place. Bo Ryan's done a better job at Wisconsin than Tubby at Minnesota. Smith's teams faded every season, incoming recruiting classes are not showing that he's improving the program. Why exactly pay top dollar for those results?

As the AD said, it's time to give someone else a try. Maybe the AD thinks he can do that because he had some success at VCU.
 
2013-03-26 12:27:10 PM

funk_soul_bubby: They want in the Shaka sweepstakes. Because they can compete with UCLA.


Yeah, there's a plan.  Improve your standing in the Big 10 by hiring Shaka Smart, who just got his ass handed to him by Michigan in the round of 32.  I mean, Shaka's a fine coach and all, but this year he was no more successful than Tubby's Gophers, and the A10 is a much easier conference than the Big 10.  They were equally (un-)successful in the tournament, bowing out in the round of 32, and frankly, Minnesota's last game was probably less embarrassing than VCU's blowout.

I'm just not seeing how Minnesota, a team with a very average basketball tradition and admittedly inferior facilities compared to its conference rivals, thinks they can hire someone BETTER than Tubby.  Dumb, dumb move, Minnesota.
 
2013-03-26 12:32:13 PM

rcf1105: I talked to all of my Minnesota friends and they're happy Tubby is gone. Basically, they told me that he's just not good at coaching - he'll recruit guys and they won't improve for four years, or they'll transfer out and become stars somewhere else. Meanwhile there doesn't seem to be any plan on offense.

Hell, they wanted him gone before this year and were upset when the team beat Indiana.


Tubby was promised improved facilities when he was hired---something he never got.  That stuff makes a big difference, and the blame for the fact that Tubby couldn't develop players should be placed almost as much on an administration that never followed through as on the coach.  When Tubby was hired, Minnesota was in the rock bottom of the Big 10, and he's done some good work there.  They should have let him finish out his contract---I'm not convinced Shaka is all that good anyway, even IF Minnesota happens to get him.
 
2013-03-26 12:43:00 PM

mikaloyd: Minnesota will have a hard time getting better results


True but they are thinking they could get the same results for a whole lot less cash
 
2013-03-26 12:44:33 PM
HMS_Blinkin:

I'm just not seeing how Minnesota, a team with a very average basketball tradition and admittedly inferior facilities compared to its conference rivals, thinks they can hire someone BETTER than Tubby.  Dumb, dumb move, Minnesota.

The facilities suck, and if we're charitable, we could blame his poor recruiting on that (assuming we ignore his tenure at Kentucky).  But Tubby's shown an alarming inability even to develop the kids he did get, or to get them to play offense at a basic level of competence.

I don't know who the answer is but it wasn't Tubby.  6 years of his mediocrity is more than enough.
 
2013-03-26 12:45:12 PM

Hang On Voltaire: mikaloyd: Minnesota will have a hard time getting better results

True but they are thinking they could get the same results for a whole lot less cash


Bingo.
 
2013-03-26 12:52:23 PM

hobnail: The facilities suck, and if we're charitable, we could blame his poor recruiting on that (assuming we ignore his tenure at Kentucky). But Tubby's shown an alarming inability even to develop the kids he did get, or to get them to play offense at a basic level of competence.

I don't know who the answer is but it wasn't Tubby. 6 years of his mediocrity is more than enough.


*shrug* If you think so.  I just think Minnesota might be wishing for this level of mediocrity if they don't hire the right guy and improve the facilities.  And if they're putting all of their eggs in the Shaka Smart basket, I really don't think that's going to work out as well as they thought.
 
2013-03-26 01:12:27 PM

HMS_Blinkin: hobnail: The facilities suck, and if we're charitable, we could blame his poor recruiting on that (assuming we ignore his tenure at Kentucky). But Tubby's shown an alarming inability even to develop the kids he did get, or to get them to play offense at a basic level of competence.

I don't know who the answer is but it wasn't Tubby. 6 years of his mediocrity is more than enough.

*shrug* If you think so.  I just think Minnesota might be wishing for this level of mediocrity if they don't hire the right guy and improve the facilities.  And if they're putting all of their eggs in the Shaka Smart basket, I really don't think that's going to work out as well as they thought.


I don't know if Shaka When the Walls Fell is the right choice but Tubby was barely better than Dan Monson in any category (and Monson actually went over .500 in conference play at least twice).  There's no way to justify his salary given that.
 
2013-03-26 01:17:45 PM

logggur: KiwDaWabbit: logggur: How is paying a guy ~$3 million to not work even remotely responsible when the university had mandatory furloughs in the past several years?  I don't mind if the Lakers or whatever professional sports team decide they want to cycle through freshly extended coaches, but a state-funded university doing it is pretty ridiculous.

/No idea how sufficiently self-funded the athletic program at Minnesota is

Paraphrasing, the way that they will always explain it is, "The funds come from different sources and are therefore unrelated."

/Cognitive dissonance, how does it work?

I mean, that's the answer I was expecting, but I'm not sure how this counts as cognitive dissonance.   Or do you mean that that's the reasoning that the fanbase/taxpayers will use to justify it to themselves?


The latter. I wasn't aiming that toward you, and I was thinking more in terms of the officials who were doing the explaining.
 
2013-03-26 01:22:35 PM

MNguy: Wild Eyed and Wicked: babysealclubber: I feel bad for Tubby. He has always been a class act and a great X's and O's coach. And I really don't know what Minnesota expects.

THIS - he walked into a program that was in shambles and did a decent job at turning it around despite it all.  Shame on them...

A team full of sixth year seniors won one tourney game.


So you were expecting them to waltz into the Elite 8?
 
2013-03-26 01:23:05 PM
It's difficult to be over .500 in the Big Ten, if that's really what people are upset about. This league is always about teams beating each other up, but just for fun I've looked up how many times each team went over .500 in the season the past 6 years, plus the farthest they've gone in that time in the post season:

Ohio State: 6/6 (Final Four)
Wisconsin: 6/6 (Sweet 16)
Purdue: 6/6 (Sweet 16)
Michigan State: 5/6 (NCAA Runner Up)
Indiana: 3/6 (Sweet 16)
Illinois: 2/6 ("3rd" round of NCAA)
U of Michigan: 2/6 (Sweet 16)
Penn State: 1/6 ("2nd" round NCAA)
Northwestern, Iowa, and Minnesota ("3rd" round of NCAA): 0/6

Good luck finding a coach that can compete in this league, Minnesota.
 
2013-03-26 01:26:04 PM

ToughBobby: Tubby was one of the highest paid coaches in college ball. We expected his teams to win, especially at the end of the year and finish higher than 6th in the Big Ten. The Gophers started 15-1 and finished 21-13. That's not what you pay top dollar for. He's a class act, but he's not a great coach.

30/70 they can get Shaka, 99% sure they'll get a big name (FCGU guy, Buzz Williams or Jay Wright if Shaka falls through).


Considering a) where MN basketball was before he arrived, b) how tough the conference was this year and c) where the program is at this point, you should be erecting a statue of him outside The Barn.

/Will be laughing at the boosters/trustees when they fire their next coach after going .500 during his tenure.
 
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