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(Some Guy)   Hello, Greece. Meet Cyprus, the newest German empire vassal state and zombie economy   (thetrumpet.com) divider line 73
    More: Interesting, Cyprus, Germans, Russian Mafia, Citizenship of the European Union, bad bank, capital controls, Prime Minister of Russia, Financial Times  
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1389 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Mar 2013 at 8:32 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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vpb [TotalFark]
2013-03-26 08:16:55 AM
It's better than a vassal of the New Russian Empire.  Or a part of Greece.
 
2013-03-26 08:30:02 AM

vpb: It's better than a vassal of the New Russian Empire.  Or a part of Greece.


THIS

Also interesting that the EU is using Cyprus as a THREAT to Italy and Spain. "We wont bail your investors out. We are not going to do what the US did. We are going to burn the bad banks to the ground"

so expect massive runs on the banks.
 
2013-03-26 08:33:58 AM
I don't know how it's legal to just go in and take (a portion of) someone's life savings. It's a good way to discourage people from saving in the future, that's for sure.
 
2013-03-26 08:37:54 AM

Wyalt Derp: I don't know how it's legal to just go in and take (a portion of) someone's life savings. It's a good way to discourage people from saving in the future, that's for sure.


Hey, who cares as long as the financial elite get more than their share... again. I'm ready to see some shiat start burning.
 
2013-03-26 08:40:21 AM
Stop trusting bankers, I think they're just in it for the money.
 
2013-03-26 08:40:33 AM

Wyalt Derp: I don't know how it's legal to just go in and take (a portion of) someone's life savings. It's a good way to discourage people from saving in the future, that's for sure.


I suppose that's one way to get a nation's people to pay for all the shiat that they've bought on credit.
 
2013-03-26 08:40:38 AM
So we can just imagine that the League of Shadows is running Germany now?  "We've tried conquest before, but this time we chose a different path: economics."

/Es ist einfach, töten wir die Batman.
 
2013-03-26 08:43:26 AM

Daquin: /Es ist einfach, töten wir die Batman.


I think I accidentally saw that one on Youporn.
 
2013-03-26 08:45:48 AM
No worries.  I'm sure Cypriots can free themselves through work.
 
2013-03-26 08:45:57 AM

Wyalt Derp: I don't know how it's legal to just go in and take (a portion of) someone's life savings. It's a good way to discourage people from saving in the future, that's for sure.


what about the ...
oh never mind

here is a hint
if your savings are only insured to 100k, um, dont put more than 100k there ....

PLUS, this wasnt a savings bank, this was an investment bank - aka gambling.
they invested in greece, heavily. those investments are now worthless.
WHY do we keep bailing out these people??? They gambled and lost.
At some point we need to stop bailing them out. period.

strange
this is really a wake up call to italy and spain. you could be next.

It could be argued that it is a last warning to greece, but the greeks have been clueless when it comes to fiscal reality.
 
2013-03-26 08:53:03 AM
German Empire? Wow, that's some cultural Judo.
 
2013-03-26 08:53:45 AM
2013, and the Germans are taking over Europe. Everything old is new again. Just don't send any important Austrian people on a diplomatic trip to Serbia and we'll be fine, okay?
 
2013-03-26 08:56:22 AM

Wyalt Derp: I don't know how it's legal to just go in and take (a portion of) someone's life savings. It's a good way to discourage people from saving in the future, that's for sure.


From what I've heard, while there are some legitimate depositers, the Cypriate banking system is mainly used to launder Russian mob money. They're the Cayman islands of Europe.
 
2013-03-26 08:56:28 AM

namatad: THIS

Also interesting that the EU is using Cyprus as a THREAT to Italy and Spain. "We wont bail your investors out. We are not going to do what the US did. We are going to burn the bad banks to the ground"

so expect massive runs on the banks.


shutdowneverything.jpg
 
2013-03-26 09:23:07 AM

Tyrone Slothrop: Wyalt Derp: I don't know how it's legal to just go in and take (a portion of) someone's life savings. It's a good way to discourage people from saving in the future, that's for sure.

From what I've heard, while there are some legitimate depositers, the Cypriate banking system is mainly used to launder Russian mob money. They're the Cayman islands of Europe.


...and that justifies screwing over legitimate depositors, including Cypriot citizens who have nowhere else to turn.
 
2013-03-26 09:23:41 AM

deeproy: German Empire? Wow, that's some cultural Judo.


Merkel is backing Zombie Bismarck as her successor.
 
2013-03-26 09:25:25 AM
"Give me control of a nation's money, and I care not who makes the laws."
 
2013-03-26 09:30:33 AM

verbaltoxin: 2013, and the Germans are taking over Europe. Everything old is new again. Just don't send any important Austrian people on a diplomatic trip to Serbia and we'll be fine, okay?



Agrees:
www.mxdwn.com
 
2013-03-26 09:32:41 AM

IlGreven: Tyrone Slothrop: Wyalt Derp: I don't know how it's legal to just go in and take (a portion of) someone's life savings. It's a good way to discourage people from saving in the future, that's for sure.

From what I've heard, while there are some legitimate depositers, the Cypriate banking system is mainly used to launder Russian mob money. They're the Cayman islands of Europe.

...and that justifies screwing over legitimate depositors, including Cypriot citizens who have nowhere else to turn.


Well... to be fair they are pulling from the uninsured portion of legitimate depositors.  Which is likely a better choice than their previous agreement with the EU to levy a tax on ALL depositors, whether insured or not.

That being said, when financial services make up 46% of your GDP, enacting capital controls and seizing deposits is probably not the best way to go through life.
 
2013-03-26 09:38:19 AM

Psylence: Wyalt Derp: I don't know how it's legal to just go in and take (a portion of) someone's life savings. It's a good way to discourage people from saving in the future, that's for sure.

Hey, who cares as long as the financial elite get more than their share... again. I'm ready to see some shiat start burning.


Uh, actually, this time, it's the rich who are getting screwed.  They're seizing all deposits over 100,000 Euros.

It's something we should have done when we bailed out the banks in this country.
 
2013-03-26 09:38:33 AM

KhanAidan: IlGreven: Tyrone Slothrop: Wyalt Derp: I don't know how it's legal to just go in and take (a portion of) someone's life savings. It's a good way to discourage people from saving in the future, that's for sure.

From what I've heard, while there are some legitimate depositers, the Cypriate banking system is mainly used to launder Russian mob money. They're the Cayman islands of Europe.

...and that justifies screwing over legitimate depositors, including Cypriot citizens who have nowhere else to turn.

Well... to be fair they are pulling from the uninsured portion of legitimate depositors.  Which is likely a better choice than their previous agreement with the EU to levy a tax on ALL depositors, whether insured or not.

That being said, when financial services make up 46% of your GDP, enacting capital controls and seizing deposits is probably not the best way to go through life.


If your economy relies on running sham-banks for Russian crime lords, then maybe you need to realign your economy as a nation.

Cyprus has farmers, fishermen, factories and stores.  They'll be OK.  They will have a massively cheap labour rate compared to the standard EU rates, and businesses will outsource or relocate business functions there.  If there are a bunch of recently unemployed financial workers, well, someone has to run the payroll.
 
2013-03-26 09:41:55 AM

Bored Horde: KhanAidan: IlGreven: Tyrone Slothrop: Wyalt Derp: I don't know how it's legal to just go in and take (a portion of) someone's life savings. It's a good way to discourage people from saving in the future, that's for sure.

From what I've heard, while there are some legitimate depositers, the Cypriate banking system is mainly used to launder Russian mob money. They're the Cayman islands of Europe.

...and that justifies screwing over legitimate depositors, including Cypriot citizens who have nowhere else to turn.

Well... to be fair they are pulling from the uninsured portion of legitimate depositors.  Which is likely a better choice than their previous agreement with the EU to levy a tax on ALL depositors, whether insured or not.

That being said, when financial services make up 46% of your GDP, enacting capital controls and seizing deposits is probably not the best way to go through life.

If your economy relies on running sham-banks for Russian crime lords, then maybe you need to realign your economy as a nation.

Cyprus has farmers, fishermen, factories and stores.  They'll be OK.  They will have a massively cheap labour rate compared to the standard EU rates, and businesses will outsource or relocate business functions there.  If there are a bunch of recently unemployed financial workers, well, someone has to run the payroll.


After seeing what happened to the Russians, I don't think anybody's going to be eager to do business in Cyprus.  Italy and Spain may even see collateral effects.
 
2013-03-26 09:43:52 AM
FTFA: Germany and Russia may have already done a deal over this.


Awesome! What could possibly go wrong?
 
2013-03-26 09:44:28 AM

Dwight_Yeast: Psylence: Wyalt Derp: I don't know how it's legal to just go in and take (a portion of) someone's life savings. It's a good way to discourage people from saving in the future, that's for sure.

Hey, who cares as long as the financial elite get more than their share... again. I'm ready to see some shiat start burning.

Uh, actually, this time, it's the rich who are getting screwed.  They're seizing all deposits over 100,000 Euros.

It's something we should have done when we bailed out the banks in this country.


It doesn't seem like its stopping the bank runs by normal people, at least from the pictures I've been seeing.  Hey, if the Russian oligarchs are getting robbed, great..  but I *REALLY* don't see this turning into another Icelandic success story.
 
2013-03-26 09:48:25 AM
Right now, there's a room full of Russian mafia bosses complaining about the rampant criminality in the international banking system.  Let that sink in for a second.
 
2013-03-26 09:49:39 AM
Well, third time's the charm I guess.
 
2013-03-26 09:52:46 AM
Why is everyone blaming Germany for all of this? They don't want to bail anyone out and have accordingly been very stingy about it. It's France's fault for even having the idea of the Euro and then forcing Germany to save it now that it's apparent that it doesn't work.
 
2013-03-26 09:54:38 AM
I thought the German's terms for the loan was X cut in spending and X in new revenues.... how does the restructuring of the private (?) banks, so that the banks can paper over losses with uninsured deposits, do either?
 
2013-03-26 10:03:20 AM
I wish we hadn't bailed our big banks out. But since we are a total service economy, our country might have actually collapsed
 
2013-03-26 10:10:34 AM

pivazena: I wish we hadn't bailed our big banks out. But since we are a total service economy, our country might have actually collapsed


Or at least broke them up.  Another tax-payer funded hand-out from Bush.
 
2013-03-26 10:14:53 AM

Psylence: Dwight_Yeast: Psylence: Wyalt Derp: I don't know how it's legal to just go in and take (a portion of) someone's life savings. It's a good way to discourage people from saving in the future, that's for sure.

Hey, who cares as long as the financial elite get more than their share... again. I'm ready to see some shiat start burning.

Uh, actually, this time, it's the rich who are getting screwed.  They're seizing all deposits over 100,000 Euros.

It's something we should have done when we bailed out the banks in this country.

It doesn't seem like its stopping the bank runs by normal people, at least from the pictures I've been seeing.  Hey, if the Russian oligarchs are getting robbed, great..  but I *REALLY* don't see this turning into another Icelandic success story.


Even if normal folks didn't faer their accounts being dipped into, the extended closing and limited withdrawl rules alone create a bank run imo.

If you lived paycheck to paycheck with a small cushion you would want to maintain access to that cushion.

I should keep more cash in the house too probably. I keep about a grand. Thinkin' maybe up it to two.
 
2013-03-26 10:16:42 AM
I don't get all the hate on Germany. The Germans don't want to bail out all these countries, and it has been really hard for German politicians. The Germans just want to make sure they want to get some of their money back, or that their loans are being used to pay off necessary debt. True, there is an argument to be made for deficit spending, but if you look at the disaster that was Greece, there was no way you could bring that back. Germany has every right to not want to see it's money frivoled away.
 
2013-03-26 10:18:19 AM
I don't think we'll see deposit seizures in any of the other countries facing debt problems, they'll burn the banks down by decapitalizing them first like they did in Greece.

The Eurozone did this to themselves, they had strict debt to GDP requirements and other financial measures on the books.  Greece cooked the books so they met one of those metrics for a single year (the year they were admitted), and went right back to business as usual after that.  Several other member states have pulled the same accounting trickery to get in.
 
2013-03-26 10:29:54 AM

NINDroog: I don't get all the hate on Germany. The Germans don't want to bail out all these countries, and it has been really hard for German politicians. The Germans just want to make sure they want to get some of their money back, or that their loans are being used to pay off necessary debt. True, there is an argument to be made for deficit spending, but if you look at the disaster that was Greece, there was no way you could bring that back. Germany has every right to not want to see it's money frivoled away.


It's difficult to describe...  But I think a lot of the hate stems from the Germans (their government, not really the citizenry) knowing the Euro/EU would fail to begin with. They're co-authors of the entire EU project and also keep pushing for further regional consolidation... The term "United States of Europe" comes to mind. There's no way so many different countries with varying economies and cultures can run as one unit in solidarity. Since this was known, a horizon was foreseen and planned for. By the time the crises hit, Germany, the heart of Europe with all the industry, becomes the pay master. You either fail or take our money in exchange for giving up sovereign rights, etc...

As stated, it's somewhat hard to explain. However, since I've become a bit of a current events/news junkie over the last decade, I can say that I've been able to take certain stories and piece them together. It's basically the Fourth Reich taking over via economic warfare... and I somewhat subscribe to that theory.

And you're right, the German people don't want this shiat. It's the renegade government with it's hands in the 'troika' machine.

Mir ist wirklich egal was in Zypern passiert is. Prost!
 
2013-03-26 10:40:02 AM
When you take 40% of Russian billionaires' money, you can expect a few assassinations to come out of this.

Russian oil-money oligarchs aren't renowned for their spirit of forgiveness.
 
2013-03-26 10:41:11 AM
Gott in Himmel, the Fourth Reich is upon us all.
 
2013-03-26 10:53:05 AM

Scythed: Why is everyone blaming Germany for all of this? They don't want to bail anyone out and have accordingly been very stingy about it. It's France's fault for even having the idea of the Euro and then forcing Germany to save it now that it's apparent that it doesn't work.


25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-26 10:57:04 AM

Famous Thamas: I don't think we'll see deposit seizures in any of the other countries facing debt problems, they'll burn the banks down by decapitalizing them first like they did in Greece.

The Eurozone did this to themselves, they had strict debt to GDP requirements and other financial measures on the books.  Greece cooked the books so they met one of those metrics for a single year (the year they were admitted), and went right back to business as usual after that.  Several other member states have pulled the same accounting trickery to get in.


about ten years ago France and Germany led the charge to loosen the requirements to avoid sanctions.

the best performing countries before the crisis, in terms of deficits and debt to GDP? Ireland and Spain.
 
2013-03-26 11:01:28 AM

namatad: vpb: It's better than a vassal of the New Russian Empire.  Or a part of Greece.

THIS

Also interesting that the EU is using Cyprus as a THREAT to Italy and Spain. "We wont bail your investors out. We are not going to do what the US did. We are going to burn the bad banks to the ground"

so expect massive runs on the banks.


Damn right; if I had any money in a Cyprus bank that reopened, I'd be down there in a heartbeat withdrawing every cent I had the second they opened. If they are openly telling Italy and Spain this kind of procedure may be used on their banks next, they're going to end up with a self-fulfilling prophecy when everyone draws their deposits out of those banks too.
 
2013-03-26 11:11:48 AM

Bendal: namatad: vpb: It's better than a vassal of the New Russian Empire.  Or a part of Greece.

THIS

Also interesting that the EU is using Cyprus as a THREAT to Italy and Spain. "We wont bail your investors out. We are not going to do what the US did. We are going to burn the bad banks to the ground"

so expect massive runs on the banks.

Damn right; if I had any money in a Cyprus bank that reopened, I'd be down there in a heartbeat withdrawing every cent I had the second they opened. If they are openly telling Italy and Spain this kind of procedure may be used on their banks next, they're going to end up with a self-fulfilling prophecy when everyone draws their deposits out of those banks too.


Except you can't because they've put in strict currency movement controls.
 
2013-03-26 11:20:36 AM

GoldSpider: I suppose that's one way to get a nation's people to pay for all the shiat that they've bought on credit.



Like Ireland, this wasn't a case of the government being profligate, it was a case of their banking sector being several times larger than the normal economy.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/ne ws/business-21922110

What went wrong in Cyprus?
Before the financial crisis struck in 2008, Cyprus was seen to have a healthy economy, with high growth, low unemployment and sound public finances.


But during the good years, the island's banking sector grew rapidly. By 2011, the IMF reported that their assets - which include all the loans they have made - were equivalent to 835% of annual national income, or GDP. A chunk of that is down to foreign-owned banks, but those that are Cypriot had made loans to Greek borrowers worth 160% of Cypriot GDP.


When Greece became engulfed in crisis in 2010, the Cypriot banks were hit hard, and the government did not have the finances to bail them out itself.
 
2013-03-26 11:37:24 AM
So if im a Russian mobster, and just had 1 billion dollars taken from me...what would I do?

Well...toss in 10% of the "lost" amount as a "lets kill those guys fund".  So another 100 million towards evening the score.

At 250K per hit, that's 400 politicians with a price on their head.

This could be interesting.
 
2013-03-26 11:54:23 AM

Bungles: Bendal: namatad: vpb: It's better than a vassal of the New Russian Empire.  Or a part of Greece.

THIS

Also interesting that the EU is using Cyprus as a THREAT to Italy and Spain. "We wont bail your investors out. We are not going to do what the US did. We are going to burn the bad banks to the ground"

so expect massive runs on the banks.

Damn right; if I had any money in a Cyprus bank that reopened, I'd be down there in a heartbeat withdrawing every cent I had the second they opened. If they are openly telling Italy and Spain this kind of procedure may be used on their banks next, they're going to end up with a self-fulfilling prophecy when everyone draws their deposits out of those banks too.

Except you can't because they've put in strict currency movement controls.


Reuters says both the EU and Cyprus are insisting any control on currency movement will last no more than a few days, though. Again, I'd withdraw every euro I owned out of a Cyprus bank the second I was allowed to, and I believe every native Cypriot will do so when they get the chance.

TFA also says anyone with more than 100k euro in a Cypriot bank will lose everything over 100k in this new deal. There are going to be some VERY angry Russian businessmen out there...
 
2013-03-26 12:12:31 PM

Bendal: Bungles: Bendal: namatad: vpb: It's better than a vassal of the New Russian Empire.  Or a part of Greece.

THIS

Also interesting that the EU is using Cyprus as a THREAT to Italy and Spain. "We wont bail your investors out. We are not going to do what the US did. We are going to burn the bad banks to the ground"

so expect massive runs on the banks.

Damn right; if I had any money in a Cyprus bank that reopened, I'd be down there in a heartbeat withdrawing every cent I had the second they opened. If they are openly telling Italy and Spain this kind of procedure may be used on their banks next, they're going to end up with a self-fulfilling prophecy when everyone draws their deposits out of those banks too.

Except you can't because they've put in strict currency movement controls.

Reuters says both the EU and Cyprus are insisting any control on currency movement will last no more than a few days, though. Again, I'd withdraw every euro I owned out of a Cyprus bank the second I was allowed to, and I believe every native Cypriot will do so when they get the chance.

TFA also says anyone with more than 100k euro in a Cypriot bank will lose everything over 100k in this new deal. There are going to be some VERY angry Russian businessmen out there...


I will be very surprised if there aren't assassinations within 6 months.
 
2013-03-26 12:20:04 PM

vpb: It's better than a vassal of the New Russian Empire.  Or a part of Greece.


And way better than zombie state and vassal economy.
 
2013-03-26 12:21:33 PM

Bungles: Bendal: Bungles: Bendal: namatad: vpb: It's better than a vassal of the New Russian Empire.  Or a part of Greece.

THIS

Also interesting that the EU is using Cyprus as a THREAT to Italy and Spain. "We wont bail your investors out. We are not going to do what the US did. We are going to burn the bad banks to the ground"

so expect massive runs on the banks.

Damn right; if I had any money in a Cyprus bank that reopened, I'd be down there in a heartbeat withdrawing every cent I had the second they opened. If they are openly telling Italy and Spain this kind of procedure may be used on their banks next, they're going to end up with a self-fulfilling prophecy when everyone draws their deposits out of those banks too.

Except you can't because they've put in strict currency movement controls.

Reuters says both the EU and Cyprus are insisting any control on currency movement will last no more than a few days, though. Again, I'd withdraw every euro I owned out of a Cyprus bank the second I was allowed to, and I believe every native Cypriot will do so when they get the chance.

TFA also says anyone with more than 100k euro in a Cypriot bank will lose everything over 100k in this new deal. There are going to be some VERY angry Russian businessmen out there...

I will be very surprised if there aren't assassinations within 6 months.


That's damn optimistic of you. I give it six hours to six days.
 
2013-03-26 12:25:22 PM
Guys guys guys... you're assuming that things are going to go exactly as described in the bailout. When these banks open on Thursday, any Russian with 3 accounts and 50,000,000 in them will wake up and find they have 480 accounts with 100,000 in them (the 2,000,000 as a payout to the banker). Cyprus got its reputation in banking by being shady. Assuming some serious hijinks aren't going on with the accounting is foolish.
 
2013-03-26 12:31:14 PM

namatad: if your savings are only insured to 100k, um, dont put more than 100k there


This bears repeating.  As much as I feel bad for people seeing their savings accounts drained, what exactly is the proper solution for banking run amok? The prevention is proper regulation while avoiding regulatory capture, but that is easier said than done.  Letting the banks fail IS the same as draining uninsured account holdings.  TARP is unpopular as well.

Seems to me that once the failure hits, there is absolutely nothing anyone can do that won't leave a sour taste in everybody's mouth. It is already too late.
 
2013-03-26 12:38:59 PM

Smackledorfer: namatad: if your savings are only insured to 100k, um, dont put more than 100k there

This bears repeating.  As much as I feel bad for people seeing their savings accounts drained, what exactly is the proper solution for banking run amok? The prevention is proper regulation while avoiding regulatory capture, but that is easier said than done.  Letting the banks fail IS the same as draining uninsured account holdings.  TARP is unpopular as well.

Seems to me that once the failure hits, there is absolutely nothing anyone can do that won't leave a sour taste in everybody's mouth. It is already too late.


The best thing that can be done is to learn a lesson from it and try to prevent it from happening again, which is, of course, the exact opposite of what TPTB always do.
 
2013-03-26 12:49:12 PM

Smackledorfer: namatad: if your savings are only insured to 100k, um, dont put more than 100k there

This bears repeating.  As much as I feel bad for people seeing their savings accounts drained, what exactly is the proper solution for banking run amok? The prevention is proper regulation while avoiding regulatory capture, but that is easier said than done.  Letting the banks fail IS the same as draining uninsured account holdings.  TARP is unpopular as well.

Seems to me that once the failure hits, there is absolutely nothing anyone can do that won't leave a sour taste in everybody's mouth. It is already too late.


I think the problem (that we put ourselves in) is that we de-regulate, but then don't have the guts to go through the natural outcomes of that policy. If you want to deregulate the banks and let bankers take risks that allow some to make a lot of money and some to lose it all then so be it. If you want to regulate it and keep everything stable with the possibility of slow investment growth then do that. But don't try to have it both ways.
 
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