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(NPR)   The real reason Americans are more accepting of homosexuals? Ellen DeGeneres   (npr.org) divider line 175
    More: Hero, Ellen Degeneres, Americans, gays and lesbians, cultural change, Defense of Marriage Act  
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8684 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Mar 2013 at 10:13 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-25 07:18:08 PM
Ryan, I don't ramble anymore. Although I do like that song Ramblin' Man by the Allman Brothers. At first I thought they were the Almond Brothers, which is great, since I like nuts, except for filberts, which is odd because I love Dilbert, because when you spend all day in a cubicle, you just gotta dance!
 
2013-03-25 07:50:47 PM
She really did a good deed by putting herself out there. It took guts back then and I respect her for that. Now when someone comes out it's like "so?" but when she did it was still a big deal.
 
2013-03-25 07:59:51 PM

revrendjim: She really did a good deed by putting herself out there. It took guts back then and I respect her for that. Now when someone comes out it's like "so?" but when she did it was still a big deal.


Indeed.  She was one of the first famous people who came out and kept their career.  I remember when it happened - I had been out for some time, and had dealt with some really heavy shiat because of it.  People liked Ellen, and when she came out, it demonstrated to middle America that someone they liked could be gay, and therefore it was okay to like gay folks.

Not to minimize the brave people who were out pre-Stonewall, or before the Regan years, or even in my generation - but Ellen and Will & Grace (yeah, I know, but seriously) did the most good work for gay rights in popular culture.  For the first time, we were okay.

I'd love to meet Ellen.  Just to say thanks.
 
2013-03-25 08:12:41 PM
Wrong!

The correct answer is Ray Gillette.
 
2013-03-25 09:01:39 PM
I think Neil Patrick Harris could also get some thanks, from a male perspective.

Ellen came out way before him but he's probably the first gay dude I can think of that came out and people basically said "who gives a shiat?  I like him."

Didn't hurt his career at all.  And that's the way it farking should be.
 
2013-03-25 09:04:56 PM

The_Sponge: Wrong!

The correct answer is Ray Gillette.


uh, phrasing?
 
2013-03-25 09:25:37 PM
And the fact that a lot of us would love to come home to someone who looks like Portia.
 
2013-03-25 09:44:21 PM
I didn't like Ellen before she was gay
 
2013-03-25 09:45:26 PM
Are Americans so farking naive* that even one person during the 60's and 70's could not have realized that entertainers like Liberace, Paul Lynde, Ceasar Romero were gay?

/I know...the answer to that is always a resounding YES.
 
2013-03-25 09:50:04 PM
Our local TV station wouldn't play Ellen's "Coming Out" episode from her TV show. Because the Weatherman (who was a big draw for the station) complained to management.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Puppy_Episode
 
2013-03-25 10:03:06 PM

The_Sponge: Wrong!

The correct answer is Ray Gillette.


"And whatever my equivalent of sploosh is. Which I guess is just sploosh. With semen."
 
2013-03-25 10:06:58 PM
You mean America discovering the lesbians weren't man hating monsters who wanted to bathe in the blood of virgins and convert their daughters to their wicked ways was a positive influence?

I, for one, am shocked.

Here's the thing: you know what homosexuals want? To have a life. To find someone they want to be with. To have a decent career. To be with friends and family. Maybe raise a dog. Join an amateur league. Bake some pies. Laugh. Goof off. Maybe even raise some kids one day. Maybe not. They want the exact same things you want. Including occasionally going to some risque club for some naughty dancing and get silly with their friends. To even maybe attend their local church. Maybe even join Rotary. Wash their cars on Sunday. Walk the dogs maybe in the park. Smooch their sweeties and canoodle at the point. They want the same damn things as everyone else. The only difference is that some folks get themselves all in a tizzy because they are "different."

Ellen showed folks that lesbians weren't scary or domineering or plotting to take over the world. Cripes, look at her wardrobe, does THAT look like anyone even a quarter as intimidating as say Martha Stewart? She came out, and folks realized, "Hey, she's pretty normal, and kinda funny and self deprecating, and her girlfriend is cute, and they seem happy." And that's pretty much what homosexuals want: to be normal. Nothing more. No special rights. Nothing more than to be normal. Just live their lives, and maybe have some laughs and some drinks, and point at the shenanigans of some folks who they think are funny, and to pick up friends when they fall down, and cuddle up with their sweetie, or have some hot monkey lovin' in the afternoon, but just like everyone else.
 
2013-03-25 10:17:11 PM
And the reason America was ready to elect Barack Obama President?

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-25 10:18:47 PM
Rosie O'Donnell (pre-going politically psycho) was one of the first major celebrity lesbians. She'd laugh, make a joke, and throw a koosh ball at the camera.

Ellen filled the void when Rosie went off the deep end.

/Ellen needs to throw more koosh balls at the camera
 
2013-03-25 10:18:54 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: revrendjim: She really did a good deed by putting herself out there. It took guts back then and I respect her for that. Now when someone comes out it's like "so?" but when she did it was still a big deal.

Indeed.  She was one of the first famous people who came out and kept their career.  I remember when it happened - I had been out for some time, and had dealt with some really heavy shiat because of it.  People liked Ellen, and when she came out, it demonstrated to middle America that someone they liked could be gay, and therefore it was okay to like gay folks.

Not to minimize the brave people who were out pre-Stonewall, or before the Regan years, or even in my generation - but Ellen and Will & Grace (yeah, I know, but seriously) did the most good work for gay rights in popular culture.  For the first time, we were okay.

I'd love to meet Ellen.  Just to say thanks.


I would probably give that show more credit than damn near anything. I would also put "queer eye" high on that list as well.
 
2013-03-25 10:19:13 PM
Just wait until America finds out that Brad Pitt is gay and that Angelina Jolie was nothing but a beard the entire time.
 
2013-03-25 10:19:31 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: I think Neil Patrick Harris could also get some thanks, from a male perspective.

Ellen came out way before him but he's probably the first gay dude I can think of that came out and people basically said "who gives a shiat?  I like him."

Didn't hurt his career at all.  And that's the way it farking should be.


I still think of NPH as straight for some reason.
 
2013-03-25 10:19:50 PM
I seem to remember Elton John coming out long before then, and people still loved him and his music. He didn't really suffer any backlash from coming out. Then again, I was quite young, so maybe I wasn't aware.
 
2013-03-25 10:20:48 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Are Americans so farking naive* that even one person during the 60's and 70's could not have realized that entertainers like Liberace, Paul Lynde, Ceasar Romero were gay?


Had no idea.
 
2013-03-25 10:20:49 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: revrendjim: She really did a good deed by putting herself out there. It took guts back then and I respect her for that. Now when someone comes out it's like "so?" but when she did it was still a big deal.

Indeed.  She was one of the first famous people who came out and kept their career.  I remember when it happened - I had been out for some time, and had dealt with some really heavy shiat because of it.  People liked Ellen, and when she came out, it demonstrated to middle America that someone they liked could be gay, and therefore it was okay to like gay folks.

Not to minimize the brave people who were out pre-Stonewall, or before the Regan years, or even in my generation - but Ellen and Will & Grace (yeah, I know, but seriously) did the most good work for gay rights in popular culture.  For the first time, we were okay.

I'd love to meet Ellen.  Just to say thanks.


encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2013-03-25 10:22:27 PM
If it really was Ellen, then why aren't there more shows that feature lesbian leads as opposed to gay male leads? Because you can't swing a dick in the primetime line up without smacking a gay character in the face but swing a cat all you want because you probably won't hit anything.
 
2013-03-25 10:22:59 PM
i302.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-25 10:23:30 PM

Atomic Spunk: I seem to remember Elton John coming out long before then, and people still loved him and his music. He didn't really suffer any backlash from coming out. Then again, I was quite young, so maybe I wasn't aware.


Didn't Melissa Etheridge come out before Ellen as well?
 
2013-03-25 10:23:32 PM

FreetardoRivera: AdolfOliverPanties: I think Neil Patrick Harris could also get some thanks, from a male perspective.

Ellen came out way before him but he's probably the first gay dude I can think of that came out and people basically said "who gives a shiat?  I like him."

Didn't hurt his career at all.  And that's the way it farking should be.

I still think of NPH as straight for some reason.


Because the roles he plays are practically parodies of heterosexuality.
 
2013-03-25 10:24:19 PM

hubiestubert: Ellen showed folks that lesbians weren't scary or domineering or plotting to take over the world.


And could be as annoying as any straight girl.
 
2013-03-25 10:25:18 PM
bloviatingzeppelin.net
 
2013-03-25 10:25:22 PM
No love for Robin Bartlett, who played the lesbian sister on Mad About You?

/Secret crush!
 
2013-03-25 10:25:47 PM
She could have a better last name.
 
2013-03-25 10:25:52 PM
Huh, it didn't seem like a big deal wt the time, but I was only 14.
 
2013-03-25 10:25:52 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I didn't like Ellen before she was gay


This
 
2013-03-25 10:25:58 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Are Americans so farking naive* that even one person during the 60's and 70's could not have realized that entertainers like Liberace, Paul Lynde, Ceasar Romero were gay?


One of the more amusing segments of the movie "Good Night and Good Luck" was the interview Murrow had with Liberace where Murrow asked about "settling down and starting a family". I'm assuming David Strathairn played it very similarly to the clips on file, where Murrow was all like "yeah right" but had to play it straight to not shatter the illusions of Middle America.
 
2013-03-25 10:26:29 PM
smhttp.14409.nexcesscdn.net
 
2013-03-25 10:26:45 PM
Ellen Degenerate.

//j
//k
 
2013-03-25 10:27:11 PM
Benevolent Misanthrope:
Not to minimize the brave people who were out pre-Stonewall, or before the Regan years, or even in my generation

Well of course not... without them forcing people to acknowledge gays really existed, it would be hard for anyone to "come out", let alone a celebrity.

Frankly, as a privileged straight guy with an anti-authoritarian streak, the story of Stonewall is one that I just LOVE: people viewed as a sad joke at best by society stood up and said "I will not be shiat on any more!".  And the world became a slightly better place for everyone, including me.
 
2013-03-25 10:27:27 PM

John Buck 41: Didn't Melissa Etheridge come out before Ellen as well?


She's nowhere near the safe, happy, nonthreatening "everygirl" persona that Ellen is.
 
2013-03-25 10:28:14 PM
I guess the article isn't referring to me... It's never mattered to me if someone was homosexual or not. The one exclusion to that is as it regards to a woman I was interested in. If she wasn't interested in guys, that mattered to me because I didn't want to chase after someone who wasn't interested in my gender. Ellen had absolutely nothing to do with that. I've never actually liked her very much... not that I disliked her, just that she was supposed to be a comedian and I didn't really find her all that funny. After she came out as being gay it seemed that's all she was about, which was even more boring than her comedy was.
 
2013-03-25 10:28:32 PM
Americans more accepting of homosexuals? Than who? shiate Muslims? Call me when gay marriage is legal in all fifty states and people stop trying to pray the gay away.
 
2013-03-25 10:31:01 PM
content.clearchannel.com
vjmorton.files.wordpress.com
www.nndb.com
 
2013-03-25 10:31:44 PM

jim32rr: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I didn't like Ellen before she was gay

This


That
 
2013-03-25 10:32:10 PM
Ellen is obnoxious. where I grew up there was gay people just like everywhere else. i never gave a shiat what consenting adults did with their privates.
 
2013-03-25 10:32:24 PM

revrendjim: She really did a good deed by putting herself out there. It took guts back then and I respect her for that. Now when someone comes out it's like "so?" but when she did it was still a big deal.


Really?  Because I remember "I'm gay, but I'm going to continue as normal, not degenerate into an entire show about how I'm gay" -> "Hey, did I mention I was homosexual lately" every five minutes for a year -> I stop watching the show.

I mean, it probably was an important thing that no one cared and all it was was annoying us about something we didn't care about, but it's an indicator, not a driver.  Not feeling the Hero there, or much risk involved.  Having trendy personality stuff going on is pretty much your job as a talk show host.

//Regarding entertainment personalities as the primary role models for gay folk is insulting roughly on a level of regarding sports people as the primary role models for black people.  i.e. pretty damned insulting.  I assure you that gay people can actually contribute to society, too, I've seen it, there were plenty in my undergrad for engineering.
 
2013-03-25 10:32:34 PM
Naw, you're just slow as a country to adopt progressive or new ideas.

Everything progressive or liberal or novel in America has to start at the bottom and bubble its way up through the bossy kindergarten kids who tell their parents what's right and wrong, the urban youth tribes, cartoonists, municipalities and counties, then progressive States, starting in Calfornia or New York or somewhere. Then it gets to the State legislature level and eventually the Republicans in Congress cave and start picking on the next minority on their list of hated minorities, or somebody makes a new kid's cartoon or toy and they go crazy abou commies and preverts making kid's cartoons or toys to corrupt young minds.

I hate to think, though, who's on that list after homosexuals. Shudder. It must be a minority so universally loathed that even liberals make jokes about them with impunity. Appalachians? Lavians? Or maybe the Government is finally ready to admit that they've been selling people as snack food to the purple people eaters from Zeta ridiculous in the Gramschean Quadrant.

Then we'll see real prejudice as the aliens start the long climb from driving cabs to being everyday people.

Yep. That's probably it. They're going to unleash the aliens on us like in the movie MIB IV.
 
2013-03-25 10:34:07 PM
Random sexually ambiguous post mentioning Melissa Ethernet so there.....
 
2013-03-25 10:34:20 PM

brantgoose: I hate to think, though, who's on that list after homosexuals


Atheists
 
2013-03-25 10:36:00 PM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: Huh, it didn't seem like a big deal wt the time, but I was only 14.


I was 17 and from what I recall, the big deal wasn't so much that she came out but that she used her show as a vehicle for it (somewhat, wiki says she was on Oprah first talking about it) - and the biggest deal was really how the network treated it as 'adult' material with a warning before the episode and everything. It was pretty pathetic on their part, in my opinion.
 
2013-03-25 10:36:09 PM

brantgoose: Naw, you're just slow as a country to adopt progressive or new ideas.


Well yeah.  This place was founded by a bunch of people so uptight they got kicked out of England for fark's sake.  Takes a while to bounce back from something like that.
 
2013-03-25 10:36:20 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Are Americans so farking naive* that even one person during the 60's and 70's could not have realized that entertainers like Liberace, Paul Lynde, Ceasar Romero were gay?

/I know...the answer to that is always a resounding YES.


Well, it's more of the idea that while it was known, it was not openly discussed and the attitude of the media at the time was to not push the point.

People who didn't like it could just deny it since it was never officially stated.  It was this strange limbo they existed in, many people knew it, but they could never admit it.

It's kind of hard to understand now, in 2013, but in 1973 it was a lot different.
 
2013-03-25 10:36:29 PM

Atomic Spunk: I seem to remember Elton John coming out long before then, and people still loved him and his music. He didn't really suffer any backlash from coming out. Then again, I was quite young, so maybe I wasn't aware.


There's a weird dichotomy among the entertainment arts. Theater people are all assumed to be gay and promiscuous, no exceptions. Movie stars are expected to be as straight as an arrow. Musicians are allowed to be bisexual or just Hedonists (and thanks to Freddie Mercury, didn't even have to be a fairy). Stand-up comedy is still pretty masculine so straightness is still a plus, though Ellen and Margaret Cho kind of broke both down, whatever you think of their acts.
 
2013-03-25 10:36:46 PM

coachwdb: [smhttp.14409.nexcesscdn.net image 640x350]



SOOOO gay.
 
2013-03-25 10:37:16 PM

K3rmy: Just wait until America finds out that Brad Pitt is gay and that Angelina Jolie was nothing but a beard the entire time.


Keep the dream alive, straight dudes. Don't let it die. You should be so lucky that all of the great looking, sexy actors and musicians are gay. Not half. Bisexual, maybe. All politicians are bisexual and most actors. Musicians are just too stoned to remember.
 
2013-03-25 10:38:55 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: I think Neil Patrick Harris could also get some thanks, from a male perspective.

Ellen came out way before him but he's probably the first gay dude I can think of that came out and people basically said "who gives a shiat?  I like him."

Didn't hurt his career at all.  And that's the way it farking should be.


Was that before or after heroic Gandalf was played by an openly gay man, and audiences loved him?

granted, Ellen still was there first.
 
2013-03-25 10:39:11 PM

theorellior: John Buck 41: Didn't Melissa Etheridge come out before Ellen as well?

She's nowhere near the safe, happy, nonthreatening "everygirl" persona that Ellen is.


Well...yeah. Didn't make that claim, though. Someone mentioned Elton John and I thought of her.
 
2013-03-25 10:39:44 PM
Was it really because of Ellen? Or was it because people were shamed, mocked, and publicly humiliated until they were compelled to accept a lifestyle they didn't understand? Just asking.
 
2013-03-25 10:40:21 PM
brantgoose:

I hate to think, though, who's on that list after homosexuals. Shudder. It must be a minority so universally loathed that even liberals make jokes about them with impunity. Appalachians? Lavians? Or maybe the Government is finally ready to admit that they've been selling people as snack food to the purple people eaters from Zeta ridiculous in the Gramschean Quadrant

If these things are cyclical then maybe we'll go back to hating the Irish.
 
2013-03-25 10:40:41 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-25 10:40:49 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: And the reason America was ready to elect Barack Obama President?

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 400x418]


Shouldn't that be a picture of G W Bush instead?  A pic of McCain would have been acceptable too.
 
2013-03-25 10:41:20 PM

whatshisname: brantgoose: I hate to think, though, who's on that list after homosexuals

Atheists


Carnies
 
2013-03-25 10:41:54 PM

coachwdb: [smhttp.14409.nexcesscdn.net image 640x350]


Thats the gayest thing I've seen..And I saw a guy suck a cock once.
 
2013-03-25 10:42:08 PM

eepapapee: whatshisname: brantgoose: I hate to think, though, who's on that list after homosexuals

Atheists

Carnies


The Dutch
 
2013-03-25 10:43:31 PM

Jim_Callahan: revrendjim: She really did a good deed by putting herself out there. It took guts back then and I respect her for that. Now when someone comes out it's like "so?" but when she did it was still a big deal.

Really?  Because I remember "I'm gay, but I'm going to continue as normal, not degenerate into an entire show about how I'm gay" -> "Hey, did I mention I was homosexual lately" every five minutes for a year -> I stop watching the show.

I mean, it probably was an important thing that no one cared and all it was was annoying us about something we didn't care about, but it's an indicator, not a driver.  Not feeling the Hero there, or much risk involved.  Having trendy personality stuff going on is pretty much your job as a talk show host.

//Regarding entertainment personalities as the primary role models for gay folk is insulting roughly on a level of regarding sports people as the primary role models for black people.  i.e. pretty damned insulting.  I assure you that gay people can actually contribute to society, too, I've seen it, there were plenty in my undergrad for engineering.


The article isn't saying what you're objecting to.
 
2013-03-25 10:43:52 PM

whatshisname: brantgoose: I hate to think, though, who's on that list after homosexuals

Atheists


Furries.

Then Otherkin
Then Turtlelovers.
 
2013-03-25 10:45:22 PM
www.madameandme.com
 
2013-03-25 10:45:49 PM

TerminalEchoes: Was it really because of Ellen? Or was it because people were shamed, mocked, and publicly humiliated until they were compelled to accept a lifestyle they didn't understand? Just asking.


Awww, poor baby. Show us exactly where your butt hurts.
 
2013-03-25 10:46:04 PM
media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-25 10:46:12 PM

biatchqueen: whatshisname: brantgoose: I hate to think, though, who's on that list after homosexuals

Atheists

Furries.

Then Otherkin
Then Turtlelovers.


Mets fans.
 
2013-03-25 10:46:41 PM
www.sitcomsonline.com
 
2013-03-25 10:49:40 PM
coachwdb

After chasing sunsets, one of life's simple jooooys
 
2013-03-25 10:49:57 PM
Everyone knows it was because of Rob Halford
 
2013-03-25 10:50:29 PM
It is because of ellen I was finally able to admit that I love the cock.
 
2013-03-25 10:50:37 PM
More accepting?  Sure.  Accepted, absolutely not.  I could go on and on with sob stories, both my own and others, but the truth is, a lot of people really thrive on making life miserable for others and treating random folks like trash in the gutter.  Not all homosexuals live in the gay paradises you see on TV, most of us are not wealthy enough to "earn" the acceptance that celebrities have access to.  Not all of us have the means to move out of the towns and neighborhoods filled with prejudiced bigots, or the opportunities to change jobs just because of the uncomfortable work environment filled with offensive gay "jokes" and harassment concerning sexual orientation.
 
2013-03-25 10:51:13 PM
She acts awfully juvenile for a,what, 55 year old woman. I loved her in that silly comedy series about a bookstore. As a talkshow host, not so much. She just seems fawning, a quality I abhor in anyone. Gay here....prefer homo myself.
 
2013-03-25 10:51:39 PM

whatshisname: brantgoose: I hate to think, though, who's on that list after homosexuals

Atheists


Transgendered folks. Especially the ones that have a hard time passing. I have a friend who is about to start hormone replacement therapy. She's terrified and relieved at the same time.

// When she told me the news, I answered back,"Tits or GTFO"
/// Massive LOLs
 
2013-03-25 10:52:50 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: revrendjim: She really did a good deed by putting herself out there. It took guts back then and I respect her for that. Now when someone comes out it's like "so?" but when she did it was still a big deal.

Indeed.  She was one of the first famous people who came out and kept their career.  I remember when it happened - I had been out for some time, and had dealt with some really heavy shiat because of it.  People liked Ellen, and when she came out, it demonstrated to middle America that someone they liked could be gay, and therefore it was okay to like gay folks.

Not to minimize the brave people who were out pre-Stonewall, or before the Regan years, or even in my generation - but Ellen and Will & Grace (yeah, I know, but seriously) did the most good work for gay rights in popular culture.  For the first time, we were okay.

I'd love to meet Ellen.  Just to say thanks.


She had a lull immediately after coming out. Her sitcom only lasted another season and for a few years she was only in the spotlight as Anne Heche's girlfriend. Her talk show was a come-back. She was pretty much a has-been when that show started.
 
2013-03-25 10:54:38 PM

rocinante721: [content.clearchannel.com image 550x680]
[vjmorton.files.wordpress.com image 320x240]
[www.nndb.com image 194x256]


Now imagine them having butt sex...
 
2013-03-25 10:55:11 PM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: biatchqueen: whatshisname: brantgoose: I hate to think, though, who's on that list after homosexuals

Atheists

Furries.

Then Otherkin
Then Turtlelovers.

Mets fans.


Representing Queens.
 
2013-03-25 10:55:12 PM
It makes sense.  She'd always been herself before she told people and she's still herself now.

I'd rather listen to someone talk who just chills and goes with the flow while getting the point across.
 
2013-03-25 10:55:34 PM

TrojanRabbit: Benevolent Misanthrope: revrendjim: She really did a good deed by putting herself out there. It took guts back then and I respect her for that. Now when someone comes out it's like "so?" but when she did it was still a big deal.

Indeed.  She was one of the first famous people who came out and kept their career.  I remember when it happened - I had been out for some time, and had dealt with some really heavy shiat because of it.  People liked Ellen, and when she came out, it demonstrated to middle America that someone they liked could be gay, and therefore it was okay to like gay folks.

Not to minimize the brave people who were out pre-Stonewall, or before the Regan years, or even in my generation - but Ellen and Will & Grace (yeah, I know, but seriously) did the most good work for gay rights in popular culture.  For the first time, we were okay.

I'd love to meet Ellen.  Just to say thanks.

She had a lull immediately after coming out. Her sitcom only lasted another season and for a few years she was only in the spotlight as Anne Heche's girlfriend. Her talk show was a come-back. She was pretty much a has-been when that show started.


Nine! It was her hosting of the Emmy's right after 9/11 that really got the ball rolling again on her career, even after her second sitcom failed.
 
2013-03-25 10:56:24 PM

whatshisname: brantgoose: I hate to think, though, who's on that list after homosexuals

Atheists


Nah, I think we resoundingly proved that pedophiles were the next group to be demonized, far beyond the ones who deserved it, to the point that parents worry that every man and all female teachers are pedophiles and the sex offender list is like a secret extra-judicial way to punish anyone we don't like and keep them from ever having a productive life again.

Zoophiles/bestialists are shaping up to be the next set. Wait until Florida passes a "Fido offender list" law.
 
2013-03-25 10:57:16 PM
Chunky Pumpkinhead: Everyone knows it was because of Rob Halford

though he came out in '98 you'd be a fool to not spot his gayness right off the bat
 
2013-03-25 10:59:24 PM
I just can't really imagine any situation where I would measurably care if someone else was gay or not.
 
2013-03-25 11:00:07 PM
foxyshadis: Zoophiles/bestialists are shaping up to be the next set. Wait until Florida passes a "Fido offender list" law.

Florida only recently outlawed bestiality. Don't hold your breath for that list.
 
2013-03-25 11:02:45 PM

coachwdb: [tomcruisetopgun.jpg]


Since you bring that up...

/you can ride my tail anytime
 
2013-03-25 11:02:51 PM
How can you believe me when I told you that I loved you when you know I've been a lesbian all my life?
 
2013-03-25 11:02:57 PM

hubiestubert: You mean America discovering the lesbians weren't man hating monsters who wanted to bathe in the blood of virgins and convert their daughters to their wicked ways was a positive influence?

I, for one, am shocked.

Here's the thing: you know what homosexuals want? To have a life. To find someone they want to be with. To have a decent career. To be with friends and family. Maybe raise a dog. Join an amateur league. Bake some pies. Laugh. Goof off. Maybe even raise some kids one day. Maybe not. They want the exact same things you want. Including occasionally going to some risque club for some naughty dancing and get silly with their friends. To even maybe attend their local church. Maybe even join Rotary. Wash their cars on Sunday. Walk the dogs maybe in the park. Smooch their sweeties and canoodle at the point. They want the same damn things as everyone else. The only difference is that some folks get themselves all in a tizzy because they are "different."

Ellen showed folks that lesbians weren't scary or domineering or plotting to take over the world. Cripes, look at her wardrobe, does THAT look like anyone even a quarter as intimidating as say Martha Stewart? She came out, and folks realized, "Hey, she's pretty normal, and kinda funny and self deprecating, and her girlfriend is cute, and they seem happy." And that's pretty much what homosexuals want: to be normal. Nothing more. No special rights. Nothing more than to be normal. Just live their lives, and maybe have some laughs and some drinks, and point at the shenanigans of some folks who they think are funny, and to pick up friends when they fall down, and cuddle up with their sweetie, or have some hot monkey lovin' in the afternoon, but just like everyone else.


Well said, sir, well said.
/I think we're done here.
//well, probably not
 
2013-03-25 11:05:34 PM
The Dyke America Likes?

/Seriously, grow up.
 
2013-03-25 11:06:32 PM

Propain_az: It is because of ellen I was finally able to admit that I love the cock.


www.patentspostgrant.com
 
2013-03-25 11:06:40 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: I think Neil Patrick Harris could also get some thanks, from a male perspective.

Ellen came out way before him but he's probably the first gay dude I can think of that came out and people basically said "who gives a shiat?  I like him."

Didn't hurt his career at all.  And that's the way it farking should be.


I'm a big fan of NPH, but by the time he came out, the country's attitudes were already shifting in favor of gay rights (if not gay marriage yet); when Ellen came out, there was a huge shiatstorm in the media, and the show lost ratings steadily after she came out.  It wasn't until five years later that she got back into the mainstream.  NPH on the other hand came out in the middle of a career resurgence (after the Harold & Kumar movies and HIMYM), and that if anything helped his career because of the widespread support.
 
2013-03-25 11:08:22 PM

Tellingthem: eepapapee: whatshisname: brantgoose: I hate to think, though, who's on that list after homosexuals

Atheists

Carnies

The Dutch


Robots
 
2013-03-25 11:08:30 PM
Oh bullshiat subtard. Some people are "accepting" because we aren't narrow minded bigots.
 
2013-03-25 11:09:21 PM

No Such Agency: Benevolent Misanthrope:
Not to minimize the brave people who were out pre-Stonewall, or before the Regan years, or even in my generation

Well of course not... without them forcing people to acknowledge gays really existed, it would be hard for anyone to "come out", let alone a celebrity.

Frankly, as a privileged straight guy with an anti-authoritarian streak, the story of Stonewall is one that I just LOVE: people viewed as a sad joke at best by society stood up and said "I will not be shiat on any more!".  And the world became a slightly better place for everyone, including me.


Stonewall was before my time, but as a sheltered religious right kid with an activist streak, seeing late 80s/early 90s groups like Act Up and Queer Nation with their very in-your-face style of activism resonated with me. Sure, everybody around me was insisting that being gay was some horrible affliction that shouldn't be spoken about above a whisper, but then I'd see people on the news who were refusing to go away and insisted that the rest of the population just deal with it.
 
2013-03-25 11:09:46 PM

germ78: coachwdb: [tomcruisetopgun.jpg]

Since you bring that up...

/you can ride my tail anytime


Thank you for that, I hadn't seen it.
 
2013-03-25 11:12:50 PM
I don't remember when Elton John became the Second Queen of England, but he deserves a little credit.
 
2013-03-25 11:13:08 PM

Cream of Meat: Benevolent Misanthrope: revrendjim: She really did a good deed by putting herself out there. It took guts back then and I respect her for that. Now when someone comes out it's like "so?" but when she did it was still a big deal.

Indeed.  She was one of the first famous people who came out and kept their career.  I remember when it happened - I had been out for some time, and had dealt with some really heavy shiat because of it.  People liked Ellen, and when she came out, it demonstrated to middle America that someone they liked could be gay, and therefore it was okay to like gay folks.

Not to minimize the brave people who were out pre-Stonewall, or before the Regan years, or even in my generation - but Ellen and Will & Grace (yeah, I know, but seriously) did the most good work for gay rights in popular culture.  For the first time, we were okay.

I'd love to meet Ellen.  Just to say thanks.

[encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 160x215]


Yep, Amanda Bearse wins.  She's also at least just as funny as Ellen, and has an amazing sense of humor about the whole thing.
 
2013-03-25 11:14:39 PM
Peter North FTW

(yes...look it up)
 
2013-03-25 11:15:19 PM

taxandspend: TrojanRabbit: Benevolent Misanthrope: revrendjim: She really did a good deed by putting herself out there. It took guts back then and I respect her for that. Now when someone comes out it's like "so?" but when she did it was still a big deal.

Indeed.  She was one of the first famous people who came out and kept their career.  I remember when it happened - I had been out for some time, and had dealt with some really heavy shiat because of it.  People liked Ellen, and when she came out, it demonstrated to middle America that someone they liked could be gay, and therefore it was okay to like gay folks.

Not to minimize the brave people who were out pre-Stonewall, or before the Regan years, or even in my generation - but Ellen and Will & Grace (yeah, I know, but seriously) did the most good work for gay rights in popular culture.  For the first time, we were okay.

I'd love to meet Ellen.  Just to say thanks.

She had a lull immediately after coming out. Her sitcom only lasted another season and for a few years she was only in the spotlight as Anne Heche's girlfriend. Her talk show was a come-back. She was pretty much a has-been when that show started.

Nine! It was her hosting of the Emmy's right after 9/11 that really got the ball rolling again on her career, even after her second sitcom failed.


Also, everybody forgets now but her sitcom was on the downswing already when she came out, and the writing never really found its footing again after she came out. The writers didn't really know what to do as far as story lines involving an out primetime character and it stopped being funny.
 
2013-03-25 11:15:33 PM
My big takeaway from this thread is the reminders of just how many successful openly gay and lesbian entertainers there were before Ellen.  And sadness at what could have been, for Freddie Mercury and Queen, if the world had been less hostile back in his time.
 
2013-03-25 11:18:48 PM
I remember being amused by the shock some felt when she came out. I knew the minute I saw her she was gay. I knew by 14 my cute sister who always had guys chasing her was a lesbian. I could spot a gay man a mile away by 18 (whether you straight men realize it or not, you all do the quick up and down appraisal upon a first meeting - gay men do not) I have finely tuned gaydar. I knew Ellen was gay when she played a receptionist on a short-lived sitcom based out of a realty office way back when.

My sister had no dramatic coming out. Her loving family met her female friends and treated them graciously. We just kinda knew, and shrugged "Oh well, as long as she is happy". She didn't wake up one day and decide to be a lesbian. She is as God made her and we love her. If Ellen opens some minds and hearts through her awesome personality, right on!
 
2013-03-25 11:21:33 PM

HotWingAgenda: My big takeaway from this thread is the reminders of just how many successful openly gay and lesbian entertainers there were before Ellen.  And sadness at what could have been, for Freddie Mercury and Queen, if the world had been less hostile back in his time.


For people in general, if AIDS (aka GRID) had been confronted more aggressively with federal research funds by Reagan.
 
2013-03-25 11:22:12 PM
My vote goes for "AIDS."

At least, that seemed to be the turning point in my small corner of the world, from what I can remember. You really couldn't discuss one without the other for quite a while there. AIDS was a horrifying new thing, and it probably did a lot to humanize the gay community to those of us who had no connection to it otherwise. (I was a 10 year old kid living out in the desert in Utah. The endless parade of magazine photos depicting gay men dying of AIDS is about all I knew of them or their lifestyle, at the time.)

It also had a way of bringing homophobia out into the open, in a way that it could be looked at and discussed in a critical way. Stupidity like that can really only survive when nobody actually talks about it. I remember being horrified by the ugliness of what came spilling out of the mouths of people I otherwise respected.
 
2013-03-25 11:22:53 PM
www.explosm.net
 
2013-03-25 11:23:06 PM
There are no hommasexshuls where I live and I am getting dern tired of hearing about them.  No news on CNN right now so all they talk about are the hommasexshuls.
Ellen's humor is puerile at best.
She looks like it too.
 
2013-03-25 11:26:24 PM

foxyshadis: Zoophiles/bestialists are shaping up to be the next set. Wait until Florida passes a "Fido offender list" law.


Considering bestiality is a no-no in the bible (Exodus 22:19) and pretty much looked down upon by 99% of the population, I'm surprised alcohol was banned (then lifted) before bestiality was ever banned.
 
2013-03-25 11:26:52 PM
It's funny because I'm completely accepting of homosexuals, but I can't stand Ellen DeGeneres. She isn't funny and never was. This is the inverse for me.
 
2013-03-25 11:27:42 PM

freetomato: I could spot a gay man a mile away by 18 (whether you straight men realize it or not, you all do the quick up and down appraisal upon a first meeting - gay men do not)


I've gotten the quick up down from pretty much every gay man I've ever met.  Either you are not a very attractive man to teh gayz, or you know some guys with ridiculous levels of self control.
 
2013-03-25 11:27:58 PM
I don't give a shiat, wake me when you can sue your employer for firing you because you have the wrong ingredients in your urine.
 
2013-03-25 11:30:04 PM

HotWingAgenda: My big takeaway from this thread is the reminders of just how many successful openly gay and lesbian entertainers there were before Ellen.  And sadness at what could have been, for Freddie Mercury and Queen, if the world had been less hostile back in his time.


Maybe then more people would know the awesomeness that was Klaus Nomi.
 
2013-03-25 11:34:44 PM

HotWingAgenda: freetomato: I could spot a gay man a mile away by 18 (whether you straight men realize it or not, you all do the quick up and down appraisal upon a first meeting - gay men do not)

I've gotten the quick up down from pretty much every gay man I've ever met.  Either you are not a very attractive man to teh gayz, or you know some guys with ridiculous levels of self control.


I was at my my best friends house playing cards.His wife had some gay friends over.
Next morning she told me he was rating the guys,turns out i am 4% gay.

//And..and.. I won 25 bucks!!!
 
2013-03-25 11:35:58 PM

germ78: HotWingAgenda: My big takeaway from this thread is the reminders of just how many successful openly gay and lesbian entertainers there were before Ellen.  And sadness at what could have been, for Freddie Mercury and Queen, if the world had been less hostile back in his time.

Maybe then more people would know the awesomeness that was Klaus Nomi.


his version of 'lightning strikes' is pretty dang infectious
 
2013-03-25 11:37:25 PM

foxyshadis: No love for Robin Bartlett, who played the lesbian sister on Mad About You?

/Secret crush!


I preferred the actress who played her girlfriend, Suzie Plakson

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

/mmm, redheads
 
2013-03-25 11:46:21 PM
Behind every successful awesome person is a pretty awesome spouse.
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-03-26 12:02:49 AM
I never got the whole "gays are gross!" argument. First of all, are lesbians gross, or just men?

Second, is it gross when your grandparents have sex? What about ugly people? Should only beautiful people be allowed to marry?
 
2013-03-26 12:06:42 AM

MrEricSir: I never got the whole "gays are gross!" argument. First of all, are lesbians gross, or just men?

Second, is it gross when your grandparents have sex? What about ugly people? Should only beautiful people be allowed to marry?


1. Just men. Although it also depends on the lesbians.

2. Yes. Yes. Ideally beautiful people should not marry and should be pushed into reproductive slavery so as to promote the genes of beautiful people.
 
2013-03-26 12:10:36 AM

MrEricSir: I never got the whole "gays are gross!" argument. First of all, are lesbians gross, or just men?

Second, is it gross when your grandparents have sex? What about ugly people? Should only beautiful people be allowed to marry?


Sounds good, those motherfarkers need to be handicapped somehow.
 
2013-03-26 12:13:34 AM

MrEricSir: I never got the whole "gays are gross!" argument. First of all, are lesbians gross, or just men?

Second, is it gross when your grandparents have sex? What about ugly people? Should only beautiful people be allowed to marry?


It's all about penetration and fear thereof.  Gays are gross because gay men penetrate each other rather than women.

It's retarded Neanderthal logic that is thankfully falling by the wayside.
 
2013-03-26 12:13:37 AM

Atomic Spunk: I seem to remember Elton John coming out long before then, and people still loved him and his music. He didn't really suffer any backlash from coming out. Then again, I was quite young, so maybe I wasn't aware.


Back in 1976, he admitted in a Rolling Stone interview that he was bisexual, then he stopped touring for a few years. Then he got married in 1984 and everyone thought he was hetero again.

/longtime Elton fan
//I don't give a shiat if he's gay, I still adore him
 
2013-03-26 12:16:27 AM
Like women's suffrage and civil rights before it, the types of people against gay rights will again find themselves on the wrong side of history.
 
2013-03-26 12:22:20 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: And the reason America was ready to elect Barack Obama President?

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 400x418]


I think he would have done better than the guy America chose.
 
2013-03-26 12:25:47 AM

Your Average Witty Fark User: Oh bullshiat subtard. Some people are "accepting" because we aren't narrow minded bigots.


You're missing the point, Average. Public consensus has not swung dramatically in the past couple decades (only) because old bigots died and fresh new liberals graduated from high school. A surprisingly large portion of that is because many people who had previously been opposed to gay rights actually changed their minds. Reasons for this perspective shift include family members, friends, and/or co-workers coming out of the closet, the political framing of the debate shifting from issues of morality to personal freedom, and yes, positive examples in popular culture.

Sure, you can condemn certain people for not ALWAYS being on the right side of history, but that would make you a dick. Why would you want to be a dick?
 
2013-03-26 12:26:10 AM

MrEricSir: I never got the whole "gays are gross!" argument. First of all, are lesbians gross, or just men?


Well, that depends.  Are they Hustler lesbians; cute, only-during-college lesbians; or real, not particularly attractive lesbians?  Generally, if you don't want to see them fark men in a porno, you probably don't want to see them fark people of the same gender.

Second, is it gross when your grandparents have sex? What about ugly people? Should only beautiful people be allowed to marry?

See my last sentence above.
 
2013-03-26 12:26:24 AM

Kuta: [media.tumblr.com image 500x279]




Fuk u!

EXACTLY!

Perfect character.

INCONCEIVABLE!

/yeah, that guy too
 
2013-03-26 12:27:13 AM
I throw, something, her way.
/while supplies last
 
2013-03-26 12:32:46 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: MrEricSir: I never got the whole "gays are gross!" argument. First of all, are lesbians gross, or just men?

Well, that depends.  Are they Hustler lesbians; cute, only-during-college lesbians; or real, not particularly attractive lesbians?


If you walk out your front door right now, you'll probably find all kinds of people, gay or straight, who you wouldn't choose to watch in the act of sexual congress.

The fact some people fail to recognize is that lesbian women cover the exact same range of physical comeliness as any other segment of the population. They just tend to do it in more comfortable shoes.

Either quit trying to generalize people or just go back to your porn.
 
2013-03-26 12:34:38 AM

AdolfOliverPanties: I think Neil Patrick Harris could also get some thanks, from a male perspective.

Ellen came out way before him but he's probably the first gay dude I can think of that came out and people basically said "who gives a shiat?  I like him."

Didn't hurt his career at all.  And that's the way it farking should be.


In heaven Liberace smiles down upon you.

l.yimg.com
 
2013-03-26 12:38:00 AM

Stile4aly: MrEricSir: I never got the whole "gays are gross!" argument. First of all, are lesbians gross, or just men?

Second, is it gross when your grandparents have sex? What about ugly people? Should only beautiful people be allowed to marry?

It's all about penetration and fear thereof.  Gays are gross because gay men penetrate each other rather than women.

It's retarded Neanderthal logic that is thankfully falling by the wayside.


I saw the mokeys at the zoo last week.  One was repeatedly trying to fark a very very small monkey of the same sex.  I dont give two shiats about this argument since i'm not gay and dont give a shiat if you are or not.  My point is that you are looking in the wrong direction for something to compare to the people that disagree with you.

monkey farker.
 
2013-03-26 12:39:46 AM

Hickory-smoked: You're missing the point, Average. Public consensus has not swung dramatically in the past couple decades (only) because old bigots died and fresh new liberals graduated from high school. A surprisingly large portion of that is because many people who had previously been opposed to gay rights actually changed their minds. R


Personally I think the financial meltdown and 10% unemployment focused peoples minds a bit.

As in I don't want to hear about the gay, I want to hear about the jobs, arsemunch
 
2013-03-26 12:40:04 AM
I'm surprised by the lack of acknowledgment for Will & Grace. It was a big-dog NBC sitcom, for goodness' sake -- the epitome of prime time whitebread. To me, that means the gay characters were accepted.

What am I overlooking here? Was it TOO whitebread? Too campy? The "gay" part wasn't emphasized enough?

Meanwhile, Birmingham, Alabama, was one of the cities where chicken-turd management at the ABC station wouldn't air the coming-out episode. Everyone who wanted to see it went to a local city auditorium.
 
2013-03-26 12:52:21 AM

thisisarepeat: Stile4aly: MrEricSir: I never got the whole "gays are gross!" argument. First of all, are lesbians gross, or just men?

Second, is it gross when your grandparents have sex? What about ugly people? Should only beautiful people be allowed to marry?

It's all about penetration and fear thereof.  Gays are gross because gay men penetrate each other rather than women.

It's retarded Neanderthal logic that is thankfully falling by the wayside.

I saw the mokeys at the zoo last week.  One was repeatedly trying to fark a very very small monkey of the same sex.  I dont give two shiats about this argument since i'm not gay and dont give a shiat if you are or not.  My point is that you are looking in the wrong direction for something to compare to the people that disagree with you.

monkey farker.


You make my point for me.  Monkeys are incapable of conceiving of abstract fears, they only understand immediate physical danger.  We are able to imagine all sorts of horrible things that might happen to us and among those fears is the idea that something foreign might enter our bodies.  Why do you think the xenomorph in Alien is designed the way it is?  It's about exploiting the fear of penetration.

Seeing two monkeys hump each other may not bother you (and I can't imagine why it would bother anyone) but if you're a straight male then seeing gay male pornography would likely be unpleasant.  Its not a big leap to go from whatever natural fear or aversion might exist of the act to the fear or hatred of the person.
 
2013-03-26 12:58:10 AM

Lorelle: Atomic Spunk: I seem to remember Elton John coming out long before then, and people still loved him and his music. He didn't really suffer any backlash from coming out. Then again, I was quite young, so maybe I wasn't aware.

Back in 1976, he admitted in a Rolling Stone interview that he was bisexual, then he stopped touring for a few years. Then he got married in 1984 and everyone thought he was hetero again.

/longtime Elton fan
//I don't give a shiat if he's gay, I still adore him


From his wikipedia bio, it says he came out as gay in 1988 which was a long time before Ellen came out. Didn't seem like it mattered one bit to his career.
 
2013-03-26 12:59:52 AM
Is Rob Zombie really a zombie. And what does "Living Dead Girl. " really mean?
 
2013-03-26 01:02:58 AM

Hickory-smoked: Benevolent Misanthrope: MrEricSir: I never got the whole "gays are gross!" argument. First of all, are lesbians gross, or just men?

Well, that depends.  Are they Hustler lesbians; cute, only-during-college lesbians; or real, not particularly attractive lesbians?

If you walk out your front door right now, you'll probably find all kinds of people, gay or straight, who you wouldn't choose to watch in the act of sexual congress.

The fact some people fail to recognize is that lesbian women cover the exact same range of physical comeliness as any other segment of the population. They just tend to do it in more comfortable shoes.

Either quit trying to generalize people or just go back to your porn.


You do realize I'm one of those lesbians of middling comeliness in comfortable shoes, right?
 
2013-03-26 01:09:37 AM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Are Americans so farking naive* that even one person during the 60's and 70's could not have realized that entertainers like Liberace, Paul Lynde, Ceasar Romero were gay?

/I know...the answer to that is always a resounding YES.


Hell, Caesar Romero's nickname was "Butch", and yet a lot of those oblivious ladies who read articles in Photoplay and Movie Talk thought that he was escorting Joan Crawford and Ann Miller to dinner and dancing at the Trocadero because he wanted to take them home afterward and make sweet macho love to them.
 
2013-03-26 01:11:36 AM

Tony_Pepperoni: jim32rr: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I didn't like Ellen before she was gay

This

That


Yes. The headline should have been "in spite of Ellen's annoying schtick."
 
2013-03-26 01:11:44 AM

puckrock2000: foxyshadis: No love for Robin Bartlett, who played the lesbian sister on Mad About You?

/Secret crush!

I preferred the actress who played her girlfriend, Suzie Plakson

[encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 183x275]

/mmm, redheads


Wait a minute.... She DOES bite!

i291.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-26 01:17:54 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Hickory-smoked: Benevolent Misanthrope: MrEricSir: I never got the whole "gays are gross!" argument. First of all, are lesbians gross, or just men?

Well, that depends.  Are they Hustler lesbians; cute, only-during-college lesbians; or real, not particularly attractive lesbians?

If you walk out your front door right now, you'll probably find all kinds of people, gay or straight, who you wouldn't choose to watch in the act of sexual congress.

The fact some people fail to recognize is that lesbian women cover the exact same range of physical comeliness as any other segment of the population. They just tend to do it in more comfortable shoes.

Either quit trying to generalize people or just go back to your porn.

You do realize I'm one of those lesbians of middling comeliness in comfortable shoes, right?


I was waiting for that moment of epicness.  He totally ignored your Boobies in this thread.
 
2013-03-26 01:25:54 AM

HotWingAgenda: I was waiting for that moment of epicness.  He totally ignored your Boobies in this thread.


Aaaaaand the epic Filter pwnage!
 
2013-03-26 01:30:47 AM

Tony_Pepperoni: jim32rr: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I didn't like Ellen before she was gay

This

That


and the other thing.
 
2013-03-26 01:33:20 AM

Bumblefark: My vote goes for "AIDS."

At least, that seemed to be the turning point in my small corner of the world, from what I can remember. You really couldn't discuss one without the other for quite a while there. AIDS was a horrifying new thing, and it probably did a lot to humanize the gay community to those of us who had no connection to it otherwise. (I was a 10 year old kid living out in the desert in Utah. The endless parade of magazine photos depicting gay men dying of AIDS is about all I knew of them or their lifestyle, at the time.)

It also had a way of bringing homophobia out into the open, in a way that it could be looked at and discussed in a critical way. Stupidity like that can really only survive when nobody actually talks about it. I remember being horrified by the ugliness of what came spilling out of the mouths of people I otherwise respected.


As sad as it is I would have to agree with you on this one. The down side is a lot of people still think the two go together most of the other gay men I know are very careful and always safe so we don't get it but I know sever stright girls that think its ok to sleep around without condoms because they are on birth control
 
2013-03-26 01:37:00 AM

Anderson's Pooper: And the fact that a lot of us would love to come home to someone who looks like Portia.


I'd switch for Portia.

/way to go, Ellen
 
2013-03-26 02:15:33 AM

Huck And Molly Ziegler: I'm surprised by the lack of acknowledgment for Will & Grace. It was a big-dog NBC sitcom, for goodness' sake -- the epitome of prime time whitebread. To me, that means the gay characters were accepted.

What am I overlooking here? Was it TOO whitebread? Too campy? The "gay" part wasn't emphasized enough?

Meanwhile, Birmingham, Alabama, was one of the cities where chicken-turd management at the ABC station wouldn't air the coming-out episode. Everyone who wanted to see it went to a local city auditorium.


Will & Grace played a role in introducing middle America to gay people, but not in the same way as that nice lady dancing on the teevee in the afternoon in everyone's living rooms did. Ellen is a real person, one that housewives in middle America love because she's that perfect blend of inoffensive humor that's perfect for daytime television.

Also, Will & Grace did less to humanize gay people for the average American because the show was a mess of stereotypes that was already feeling dated by the end of its run. It presented the "safe" images of harmless camp gays and substituted a mass of stereotypes for actual character development. And well, all you need to know about the stereotypes is that the reason that John Barrowman didn't get the role of Will was because the producers didn't think he seemed gay enough.
 
2013-03-26 02:16:18 AM
You know how I found out Ellen was a Lesbian?  I was watching a show on Old Comedy Central.  (It might have still been "HA!")  And they had these "comedy videos" shows that were just 1 or 2 minute clips of stand ups.  Anyway they had a clip back from 1981 where Ellen went on stage and said, "Hi, I'm Ellen deGeneres, Lesbian Comedian."

O... K...  I'm fine with this. 

You have to understand this was at the height of Elle's surge as a stand up with multiple specials under her belt and people fishing for sit-com roles for her.  Comedy Central just OUTED her right at the moment she was peaking.  And it was done just as one of dozens of clips.  Just because they liked to show really early clips of famous comics.

Ellen deGeneres didn't come out of the closet in 1997.  She came out of the closet in 1981.  Then had to go BACK IN the closet.  Managers and Hollywood douches told her to "Ixnay on the Esbianlay" if you want to have a career.

And when I saw that clip I was already a big fan.  I saw her stuff.  I heard the BOYFRIEND jokes.  I mean how humiliating.  I mean all your friends and family know and you've got to lie about who you are just to PASS???

I mean one of the keys to great stand-up is that you have to be completely HONEST.  How's she supposed to be an effective performer when she has to LIE to everyone every night?  Until the joke ran so thin it was ridiculous.

Ellen didn't come out
 
2013-03-26 02:24:26 AM
Oh, shiat, no, she's not.  Her show show immediately went belly up.  Three years later she managed a new one-and it went a whole eight episodes aired before it was yanked.  She wasn't on the goddamn air enough to have significant influence.

Now, you want to claim Will & Grace influenced things, feel free.  It was actually on TV, and got good ratings, too.
 
2013-03-26 02:30:46 AM
This is dumb. It's time because it's time.
 
2013-03-26 03:01:30 AM
In a way Ellen's the Wayne Brady of Homophobia.  The Reductio ad Absurdum of Homophobia.  Defying all the stereotypes, while you get a sense that this is the real deal with no "Uncle Tom-ism", no sucking up.  No standing above the Stereotype and condemning those who don't or can't like Bill Cosby.  Just being HERSELF and letting people know that person until they recognize it as Cool.

It's not really an accomplishment on her part.  It's more of a reflection on how much Gays and Lesbians have had to bend over backwards, like Black people before them to make themselves palatable to the general community.  Then you try to make others accept you and then you're a SELL OUT.

You have to thread this Needle of being authentically YOU and not part of the Stereotype and still appealing to the General Community which is full of stereotypes and judgment.

"Will and Grace" and "Queer Eye" made Gay COOL, but cool only to a segment of the population.  The ones who were probably come to your side anyway. The Homophobes came up with new stereotypes.  Like they hated the "N*gger-lovers" of the 1960s, you can know hate the "F*g-Hags and Metrosexuals."
 
2013-03-26 03:29:47 AM
why do these threads always seem to leave out Doug Ballard and Don McManus who played the gay couple on Northern Exposure?  I'm sure someone is going to whine about how they were stereotyped but I always thought they were presented as likeable and generally welcomed as opposed to being demeaned.  I don't really think gay actors playing straight roles have done squat towards the general public accepting gays,

For the record, I liked Ellen's Margo Van Meter character from Open House (yeah, I watched it) a lot more than her later work.
 
2013-03-26 03:54:01 AM
rynthetyn:  And well, all you need to know about the stereotypes is that the reason that John Barrowman didn't get the role of Will was because the producers didn't think he seemed gay enough.

Wait, wait, wait. WHAT? They passed over BARROWMAN?

*where do I send the hate mail*...
 
2013-03-26 03:55:41 AM

puckrock2000: foxyshadis: No love for Robin Bartlett, who played the lesbian sister on Mad About You?

/Secret crush!

I preferred the actress who played her girlfriend, Suzie Plakson

[encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 183x275]

/mmm, redheads


How could I forget! You have great taste, sir.
 
2013-03-26 03:58:41 AM

stonelotus: why do these threads always seem to leave out Doug Ballard and Don McManus who played the gay couple on Northern Exposure?  I'm sure someone is going to whine about how they were stereotyped but I always thought they were presented as likeable and generally welcomed as opposed to being demeaned.  I don't really think gay actors playing straight roles have done squat towards the general public accepting gays,


We also never see Daffyd, the only gay in the village.
 
2013-03-26 04:19:42 AM

rynthetyn: Also, Will & Grace did less to humanize gay people for the average American because the show was a mess of stereotypes that was already feeling dated by the end of its run. It presented the "safe" images of harmless camp gays and substituted a mass of stereotypes for actual character development. And well, all you need to know about the stereotypes is that the reason that John Barrowman didn't get the role of Will was because the producers didn't think he seemed gay enough.


Not to mention the fact that the gay characters are universally depicted as sexless infantile man-children who need a good woman to put them on the right path.
 
2013-03-26 05:00:55 AM

PonceAlyosha: rynthetyn: Also, Will & Grace did less to humanize gay people for the average American because the show was a mess of stereotypes that was already feeling dated by the end of its run. It presented the "safe" images of harmless camp gays and substituted a mass of stereotypes for actual character development. And well, all you need to know about the stereotypes is that the reason that John Barrowman didn't get the role of Will was because the producers didn't think he seemed gay enough.

Not to mention the fact that the gay characters are universally depicted as sexless infantile man-children who need a good woman to put them on the right path.


Yeah, that too. How many seasons was the show on before they actually showed Will kissing another guy? Not to mention the fact that I have a hard time believing that an attractive, successful lawyer in New York City during the time that show was on the air would have had as much trouble with relationships as he had.

I think it was probably better for Barrowman's career longevity that he didn't get the part. Though, Will might not have come across as such a sexless walking stereotype if Barrowman had played him because I don't think he's capable of playing a character that doesn't ooze sex appeal.
 
2013-03-26 06:27:01 AM

JohnnyC: I guess the article isn't referring to me... It's never mattered to me if someone was homosexual or not. The one exclusion to that is as it regards to a woman I was interested in. If she wasn't interested in guys, that mattered to me because I didn't want to chase after someone who wasn't interested in my gender. Ellen had absolutely nothing to do with that. I've never actually liked her very much... not that I disliked her, just that she was supposed to be a comedian and I didn't really find her all that funny. After she came out as being gay it seemed that's all she was about, which was even more boring than her comedy was.


Pretty much the same here. I saw the buildup to Ellen coming out and thought they whole drama around it was retarded. I just did not see what the big deal was and could not find any farks to give. Which is probably what most LGBT's want.
 
2013-03-26 07:40:31 AM

HotWingAgenda: Either you are not a very attractive man to teh gayz,.....



I would hope not, since I'm a woman.
 
2013-03-26 08:41:13 AM

berylman: Random sexually ambiguous post mentioning Melissa  Ethernet so there.....


I hear she's a decendent of Joan of ARCnet...
 
2013-03-26 08:59:08 AM

gibbon1: AdolfOliverPanties: I think Neil Patrick Harris could also get some thanks, from a male perspective.

Ellen came out way before him but he's probably the first gay dude I can think of that came out and people basically said "who gives a shiat?  I like him."

Didn't hurt his career at all.  And that's the way it farking should be.

In heaven Liberace smiles down upon you.

[l.yimg.com image 620x400]


Well, you know the old saying, "There are three kinds of pianists: Jewish pianists, homosexual pianists and bad pianists."

I'm a bad pianist.

/true story
 
2013-03-26 09:12:48 AM

MadCat221: Like women's suffrage and civil rights before it, the types of people against gay rights will again find themselves on the wrong side of history.


This, that and the other
 
2013-03-26 09:56:27 AM

Bumblefark: My vote goes for "AIDS."

At least, that seemed to be the turning point in my small corner of the world, from what I can remember. You really couldn't discuss one without the other for quite a while there. AIDS was a horrifying new thing, and it probably did a lot to humanize the gay community to those of us who had no connection to it otherwise. (I was a 10 year old kid living out in the desert in Utah. The endless parade of magazine photos depicting gay men dying of AIDS is about all I knew of them or their lifestyle, at the time.)

It also had a way of bringing homophobia out into the open, in a way that it could be looked at and discussed in a critical way. Stupidity like that can really only survive when nobody actually talks about it. I remember being horrified by the ugliness of what came spilling out of the mouths of people I otherwise respected.


Not to mention the men whose friends and family discovered they were gay only after AIDS tragically kicked them out of the closet. Harder to hate on them when they're dying.

Happened with the best man at my parents' wedding.
 
2013-03-26 10:01:30 AM

HotWingAgenda: freetomato: I could spot a gay man a mile away by 18 (whether you straight men realize it or not, you all do the quick up and down appraisal upon a first meeting - gay men do not)

I've gotten the quick up down from pretty much every gay man I've ever met.  Either you are not a very attractive man to teh gayz, or you know some guys with ridiculous levels of self control.


I think that she's not a man. Thus: straight men give her the up and down, while gay do not.
 
2013-03-26 10:13:43 AM

Skirl Hutsenreiter: HotWingAgenda: freetomato: I could spot a gay man a mile away by 18 (whether you straight men realize it or not, you all do the quick up and down appraisal upon a first meeting - gay men do not)


Wrong.  Some of us are actually cognizant that pretty much every woman out there is acutely aware of the ol' standard "up and down ogle".  Doesn't mean we don't look, some of us are actually discreet and are quite creative in our methodology.
 
2013-03-26 10:20:59 AM
lies.  the real reason?  George Takei!!
 
2013-03-26 10:29:50 AM
One more, on topic....possibly it's been said already.

The thing I recall about Ellen's coming out, was that as far as I could tell EVERYONE that knew of her was already well aware that she was gay.  It was nowhere near a surprise.  Are some saying that they actually didn't know?  Interesting.

I heard the NPR segment on her, and what struck me is how they made it seem as if no one had a clue.

When Rock Hudson announced he was ill and he came out, now that was a surprise.  Also, never knew anything about Ceasar Romero until now.  But Ellen?  Can't say that was much of a surprise.

/I go on record to state "Who am I to say someone else can't pursue happiness?"
 
2013-03-26 10:37:00 AM
i1168.photobucket.com

Another very big star whose sexuality didn't hurt his career.
 
2013-03-26 11:12:06 AM

Omahawg: [i302.photobucket.com image 512x384]


I loved Jodie Dallas.  I wanted to be Jodie Dallas; no, I wanted to have his family.  Sure, he was a little weird and his family made fun of him, but they knew he was gay and mostly accepted him anyway.  That's more than a lot of queer folk had in the 1970s and 1980s.

Jodie Dallas gave me hope.  He was the early 1980s' version of "It Gets Better."
 
2013-03-26 11:20:16 AM
Accept?
 
2013-03-26 11:29:14 AM

John Buck 41: Atomic Spunk: I seem to remember Elton John coming out long before then, and people still loved him and his music. He didn't really suffer any backlash from coming out. Then again, I was quite young, so maybe I wasn't aware.

Didn't Melissa Etheridge come out before Ellen as well?



"Etheridge came out publicly as a lesbian in January 1993" according to Wkipedia.  Her album "Yes I Am" came out that September.  There was a kind of joke or urban legend at the time that "Yes I Am" was titled in answer to people wondering if she was gay.
I listened the HELL out of that album.

Both Etheridge and the Indigo Girls were pretty major figures for gays in the early-mid 1990s.  One thing about Etheridge before she came out in 1993 were that her songs were pretty gender-neutral.  Instead of singing about loving "him", she would sing about loving "you."  She was essentially playing the pronoun game in her songwriting, or at least that's how some people saw it.

Fun fact: "playing the pronoun game" was a line in Chasing Amy (1997).  Tyhat was the first time I remember hearing the term used in a mainstream work of fiction.
 
2013-03-26 11:30:12 AM

brantgoose: Naw, you're just slow as a country to adopt progressive or new ideas.

Everything progressive or liberal or novel in America has to start at the bottom and bubble its way up through the bossy kindergarten kids who tell their parents what's right and wrong, the urban youth tribes, cartoonists, municipalities and counties, then progressive States, starting in Calfornia or New York or somewhere. Then it gets to the State legislature level and eventually the Republicans in Congress cave and start picking on the next minority on their list of hated minorities, or somebody makes a new kid's cartoon or toy and they go crazy abou commies and preverts making kid's cartoons or toys to corrupt young minds.

I hate to think, though, who's on that list after homosexuals. Shudder. It must be a minority so universally loathed that even liberals make jokes about them with impunity. Appalachians? Lavians? Or maybe the Government is finally ready to admit that they've been selling people as snack food to the purple people eaters from Zeta ridiculous in the Gramschean Quadrant.

Then we'll see real prejudice as the aliens start the long climb from driving cabs to being everyday people.

Yep. That's probably it. They're going to unleash the aliens on us like in the movie MIB IV.


As an Appalachian-American (hehe) I endorse this comment.
 
2013-03-26 11:31:31 AM

JohnnyC: I guess the article isn't referring to me... It's never mattered to me if someone was homosexual or not.


That's great.  It'd be nice if you recognized that you're in a tiny, tiny minority in that case.
 
2013-03-26 11:32:17 AM

Cymbal: Americans more accepting of homosexuals? Than who?


Furries and bronies.
 
2013-03-26 11:34:40 AM

ciberido: Cymbal: Americans more accepting of homosexuals? Than who?

Furries and bronies.


true. true.
 
2013-03-26 11:36:07 AM

rocinante721: [content.clearchannel.com image 550x680]
[vjmorton.files.wordpress.com image 320x240]
[www.nndb.com image 194x256]



Charles Nelson Reilly was a mighty man, the kind of man you'd never disrespect.  He'd bash your face in with a shovel if you didn't treat him like a star.  'Cause you can spit in the wind, and tug on Superman's cape, but Lord knows you don't mess around with CNR.
 
2013-03-26 12:04:38 PM
to be fair, i give a lot more credit to people like rush limbaugh. i mean... put him up against pretty much any homosexual, and think about who you would prefer to be stuck in an elevator with. thats right, the homosexual.  thanks, rush.
 
2013-03-26 12:11:13 PM

Tenatra: [www.explosm.net image 720x264]


Nice, but more appropriate for this thread:
www.explosm.net
 
2013-03-26 12:11:58 PM
Nate Silver just published a piece on this in 538. It's not Ellen. It's a steady change and has been for a while.

That said, George Takei is definitely helping with his little Facebook empire. All the haters are still seeing reposts of funny images and jokes that Takei and his husband put on Facebook. Eventually, you're going to say, "How can I hate an old man who likes funny pictures?"
 
2013-03-26 12:19:43 PM

sunsawed: In a way Ellen's the Wayne Brady of Homophobia.  The Reductio ad Absurdum of Homophobia.  Defying all the stereotypes, while you get a sense that this is the real deal with no "Uncle Tom-ism", no sucking up.  No standing above the Stereotype and condemning those who don't or can't like Bill Cosby.  Just being HERSELF and letting people know that person until they recognize it as Cool.



Why I got to do the African Chant?
 
2013-03-26 02:31:35 PM
So no replies to my comment about it not being a surprise.

Does anyone recall her coming out as a surprise?  Everyone I knew at the time pretty much knew already, so no big reveal for us.

I recall watching her show before she came out, and we all commented on how the show had her dating guys.  We all wondered about this.  My roommate's girlfriend even commented on it...."why is she going out with men?  I thought she was gay."

And I remember Melissa Ethridge saying in an interview (before Ellen came out), "My very very good friend Ellen DeGeneris..."  That was kinda revealing.

/not bashing, just trying to remember
 
2013-03-26 08:48:32 PM

ciberido:   One thing about Etheridge before she came out in 1993 were that her songs were pretty gender-neutral.  Instead of singing about loving "him", she would sing about loving "you."  She was essentially playing the pronoun game in her songwriting, or at least that's how some people saw it.


Case in point, from Bring Me Some Water. "Some other woman is makin' love to you"
 
2013-03-26 11:51:57 PM
I like Ellen. I think she's a delight. Particularly when she shamed the Jersey Shore people by asking them basic questions about American History and then let them fall in a dark hole when they inevitably got the answers wrong.
 
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