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(NPR)   The real reason Americans are more accepting of homosexuals? Ellen DeGeneres   (npr.org) divider line 173
    More: Hero, Ellen Degeneres, Americans, gays and lesbians, cultural change, Defense of Marriage Act  
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8688 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Mar 2013 at 10:13 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-25 11:26:52 PM  
It's funny because I'm completely accepting of homosexuals, but I can't stand Ellen DeGeneres. She isn't funny and never was. This is the inverse for me.
 
2013-03-25 11:27:42 PM  

freetomato: I could spot a gay man a mile away by 18 (whether you straight men realize it or not, you all do the quick up and down appraisal upon a first meeting - gay men do not)


I've gotten the quick up down from pretty much every gay man I've ever met.  Either you are not a very attractive man to teh gayz, or you know some guys with ridiculous levels of self control.
 
2013-03-25 11:27:58 PM  
I don't give a shiat, wake me when you can sue your employer for firing you because you have the wrong ingredients in your urine.
 
2013-03-25 11:30:04 PM  

HotWingAgenda: My big takeaway from this thread is the reminders of just how many successful openly gay and lesbian entertainers there were before Ellen.  And sadness at what could have been, for Freddie Mercury and Queen, if the world had been less hostile back in his time.


Maybe then more people would know the awesomeness that was Klaus Nomi.
 
2013-03-25 11:34:44 PM  

HotWingAgenda: freetomato: I could spot a gay man a mile away by 18 (whether you straight men realize it or not, you all do the quick up and down appraisal upon a first meeting - gay men do not)

I've gotten the quick up down from pretty much every gay man I've ever met.  Either you are not a very attractive man to teh gayz, or you know some guys with ridiculous levels of self control.


I was at my my best friends house playing cards.His wife had some gay friends over.
Next morning she told me he was rating the guys,turns out i am 4% gay.

//And..and.. I won 25 bucks!!!
 
2013-03-25 11:35:58 PM  

germ78: HotWingAgenda: My big takeaway from this thread is the reminders of just how many successful openly gay and lesbian entertainers there were before Ellen.  And sadness at what could have been, for Freddie Mercury and Queen, if the world had been less hostile back in his time.

Maybe then more people would know the awesomeness that was Klaus Nomi.


his version of 'lightning strikes' is pretty dang infectious
 
2013-03-25 11:37:25 PM  

foxyshadis: No love for Robin Bartlett, who played the lesbian sister on Mad About You?

/Secret crush!


I preferred the actress who played her girlfriend, Suzie Plakson

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

/mmm, redheads
 
2013-03-25 11:46:21 PM  
Behind every successful awesome person is a pretty awesome spouse.
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-03-26 12:02:49 AM  
I never got the whole "gays are gross!" argument. First of all, are lesbians gross, or just men?

Second, is it gross when your grandparents have sex? What about ugly people? Should only beautiful people be allowed to marry?
 
2013-03-26 12:06:42 AM  

MrEricSir: I never got the whole "gays are gross!" argument. First of all, are lesbians gross, or just men?

Second, is it gross when your grandparents have sex? What about ugly people? Should only beautiful people be allowed to marry?


1. Just men. Although it also depends on the lesbians.

2. Yes. Yes. Ideally beautiful people should not marry and should be pushed into reproductive slavery so as to promote the genes of beautiful people.
 
2013-03-26 12:10:36 AM  

MrEricSir: I never got the whole "gays are gross!" argument. First of all, are lesbians gross, or just men?

Second, is it gross when your grandparents have sex? What about ugly people? Should only beautiful people be allowed to marry?


Sounds good, those motherfarkers need to be handicapped somehow.
 
2013-03-26 12:13:34 AM  

MrEricSir: I never got the whole "gays are gross!" argument. First of all, are lesbians gross, or just men?

Second, is it gross when your grandparents have sex? What about ugly people? Should only beautiful people be allowed to marry?


It's all about penetration and fear thereof.  Gays are gross because gay men penetrate each other rather than women.

It's retarded Neanderthal logic that is thankfully falling by the wayside.
 
2013-03-26 12:13:37 AM  

Atomic Spunk: I seem to remember Elton John coming out long before then, and people still loved him and his music. He didn't really suffer any backlash from coming out. Then again, I was quite young, so maybe I wasn't aware.


Back in 1976, he admitted in a Rolling Stone interview that he was bisexual, then he stopped touring for a few years. Then he got married in 1984 and everyone thought he was hetero again.

/longtime Elton fan
//I don't give a shiat if he's gay, I still adore him
 
2013-03-26 12:16:27 AM  
Like women's suffrage and civil rights before it, the types of people against gay rights will again find themselves on the wrong side of history.
 
2013-03-26 12:22:20 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: And the reason America was ready to elect Barack Obama President?

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 400x418]


I think he would have done better than the guy America chose.
 
2013-03-26 12:25:47 AM  

Your Average Witty Fark User: Oh bullshiat subtard. Some people are "accepting" because we aren't narrow minded bigots.


You're missing the point, Average. Public consensus has not swung dramatically in the past couple decades (only) because old bigots died and fresh new liberals graduated from high school. A surprisingly large portion of that is because many people who had previously been opposed to gay rights actually changed their minds. Reasons for this perspective shift include family members, friends, and/or co-workers coming out of the closet, the political framing of the debate shifting from issues of morality to personal freedom, and yes, positive examples in popular culture.

Sure, you can condemn certain people for not ALWAYS being on the right side of history, but that would make you a dick. Why would you want to be a dick?
 
2013-03-26 12:26:10 AM  

MrEricSir: I never got the whole "gays are gross!" argument. First of all, are lesbians gross, or just men?


Well, that depends.  Are they Hustler lesbians; cute, only-during-college lesbians; or real, not particularly attractive lesbians?  Generally, if you don't want to see them fark men in a porno, you probably don't want to see them fark people of the same gender.

Second, is it gross when your grandparents have sex? What about ugly people? Should only beautiful people be allowed to marry?

See my last sentence above.
 
2013-03-26 12:26:24 AM  

Kuta: [media.tumblr.com image 500x279]




Fuk u!

EXACTLY!

Perfect character.

INCONCEIVABLE!

/yeah, that guy too
 
2013-03-26 12:27:13 AM  
I throw, something, her way.
/while supplies last
 
2013-03-26 12:32:46 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: MrEricSir: I never got the whole "gays are gross!" argument. First of all, are lesbians gross, or just men?

Well, that depends.  Are they Hustler lesbians; cute, only-during-college lesbians; or real, not particularly attractive lesbians?


If you walk out your front door right now, you'll probably find all kinds of people, gay or straight, who you wouldn't choose to watch in the act of sexual congress.

The fact some people fail to recognize is that lesbian women cover the exact same range of physical comeliness as any other segment of the population. They just tend to do it in more comfortable shoes.

Either quit trying to generalize people or just go back to your porn.
 
2013-03-26 12:34:38 AM  

AdolfOliverPanties: I think Neil Patrick Harris could also get some thanks, from a male perspective.

Ellen came out way before him but he's probably the first gay dude I can think of that came out and people basically said "who gives a shiat?  I like him."

Didn't hurt his career at all.  And that's the way it farking should be.


In heaven Liberace smiles down upon you.

l.yimg.com
 
2013-03-26 12:38:00 AM  

Stile4aly: MrEricSir: I never got the whole "gays are gross!" argument. First of all, are lesbians gross, or just men?

Second, is it gross when your grandparents have sex? What about ugly people? Should only beautiful people be allowed to marry?

It's all about penetration and fear thereof.  Gays are gross because gay men penetrate each other rather than women.

It's retarded Neanderthal logic that is thankfully falling by the wayside.


I saw the mokeys at the zoo last week.  One was repeatedly trying to fark a very very small monkey of the same sex.  I dont give two shiats about this argument since i'm not gay and dont give a shiat if you are or not.  My point is that you are looking in the wrong direction for something to compare to the people that disagree with you.

monkey farker.
 
2013-03-26 12:39:46 AM  

Hickory-smoked: You're missing the point, Average. Public consensus has not swung dramatically in the past couple decades (only) because old bigots died and fresh new liberals graduated from high school. A surprisingly large portion of that is because many people who had previously been opposed to gay rights actually changed their minds. R


Personally I think the financial meltdown and 10% unemployment focused peoples minds a bit.

As in I don't want to hear about the gay, I want to hear about the jobs, arsemunch
 
2013-03-26 12:40:04 AM  
I'm surprised by the lack of acknowledgment for Will & Grace. It was a big-dog NBC sitcom, for goodness' sake -- the epitome of prime time whitebread. To me, that means the gay characters were accepted.

What am I overlooking here? Was it TOO whitebread? Too campy? The "gay" part wasn't emphasized enough?

Meanwhile, Birmingham, Alabama, was one of the cities where chicken-turd management at the ABC station wouldn't air the coming-out episode. Everyone who wanted to see it went to a local city auditorium.
 
2013-03-26 12:52:21 AM  

thisisarepeat: Stile4aly: MrEricSir: I never got the whole "gays are gross!" argument. First of all, are lesbians gross, or just men?

Second, is it gross when your grandparents have sex? What about ugly people? Should only beautiful people be allowed to marry?

It's all about penetration and fear thereof.  Gays are gross because gay men penetrate each other rather than women.

It's retarded Neanderthal logic that is thankfully falling by the wayside.

I saw the mokeys at the zoo last week.  One was repeatedly trying to fark a very very small monkey of the same sex.  I dont give two shiats about this argument since i'm not gay and dont give a shiat if you are or not.  My point is that you are looking in the wrong direction for something to compare to the people that disagree with you.

monkey farker.


You make my point for me.  Monkeys are incapable of conceiving of abstract fears, they only understand immediate physical danger.  We are able to imagine all sorts of horrible things that might happen to us and among those fears is the idea that something foreign might enter our bodies.  Why do you think the xenomorph in Alien is designed the way it is?  It's about exploiting the fear of penetration.

Seeing two monkeys hump each other may not bother you (and I can't imagine why it would bother anyone) but if you're a straight male then seeing gay male pornography would likely be unpleasant.  Its not a big leap to go from whatever natural fear or aversion might exist of the act to the fear or hatred of the person.
 
2013-03-26 12:58:10 AM  

Lorelle: Atomic Spunk: I seem to remember Elton John coming out long before then, and people still loved him and his music. He didn't really suffer any backlash from coming out. Then again, I was quite young, so maybe I wasn't aware.

Back in 1976, he admitted in a Rolling Stone interview that he was bisexual, then he stopped touring for a few years. Then he got married in 1984 and everyone thought he was hetero again.

/longtime Elton fan
//I don't give a shiat if he's gay, I still adore him


From his wikipedia bio, it says he came out as gay in 1988 which was a long time before Ellen came out. Didn't seem like it mattered one bit to his career.
 
2013-03-26 12:59:52 AM  
Is Rob Zombie really a zombie. And what does "Living Dead Girl. " really mean?
 
2013-03-26 01:02:58 AM  

Hickory-smoked: Benevolent Misanthrope: MrEricSir: I never got the whole "gays are gross!" argument. First of all, are lesbians gross, or just men?

Well, that depends.  Are they Hustler lesbians; cute, only-during-college lesbians; or real, not particularly attractive lesbians?

If you walk out your front door right now, you'll probably find all kinds of people, gay or straight, who you wouldn't choose to watch in the act of sexual congress.

The fact some people fail to recognize is that lesbian women cover the exact same range of physical comeliness as any other segment of the population. They just tend to do it in more comfortable shoes.

Either quit trying to generalize people or just go back to your porn.


You do realize I'm one of those lesbians of middling comeliness in comfortable shoes, right?
 
2013-03-26 01:09:37 AM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Are Americans so farking naive* that even one person during the 60's and 70's could not have realized that entertainers like Liberace, Paul Lynde, Ceasar Romero were gay?

/I know...the answer to that is always a resounding YES.


Hell, Caesar Romero's nickname was "Butch", and yet a lot of those oblivious ladies who read articles in Photoplay and Movie Talk thought that he was escorting Joan Crawford and Ann Miller to dinner and dancing at the Trocadero because he wanted to take them home afterward and make sweet macho love to them.
 
2013-03-26 01:11:36 AM  

Tony_Pepperoni: jim32rr: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I didn't like Ellen before she was gay

This

That


Yes. The headline should have been "in spite of Ellen's annoying schtick."
 
2013-03-26 01:11:44 AM  

puckrock2000: foxyshadis: No love for Robin Bartlett, who played the lesbian sister on Mad About You?

/Secret crush!

I preferred the actress who played her girlfriend, Suzie Plakson

[encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 183x275]

/mmm, redheads


Wait a minute.... She DOES bite!

i291.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-26 01:17:54 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Hickory-smoked: Benevolent Misanthrope: MrEricSir: I never got the whole "gays are gross!" argument. First of all, are lesbians gross, or just men?

Well, that depends.  Are they Hustler lesbians; cute, only-during-college lesbians; or real, not particularly attractive lesbians?

If you walk out your front door right now, you'll probably find all kinds of people, gay or straight, who you wouldn't choose to watch in the act of sexual congress.

The fact some people fail to recognize is that lesbian women cover the exact same range of physical comeliness as any other segment of the population. They just tend to do it in more comfortable shoes.

Either quit trying to generalize people or just go back to your porn.

You do realize I'm one of those lesbians of middling comeliness in comfortable shoes, right?


I was waiting for that moment of epicness.  He totally ignored your Boobies in this thread.
 
2013-03-26 01:25:54 AM  

HotWingAgenda: I was waiting for that moment of epicness.  He totally ignored your Boobies in this thread.


Aaaaaand the epic Filter pwnage!
 
2013-03-26 01:30:47 AM  

Tony_Pepperoni: jim32rr: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I didn't like Ellen before she was gay

This

That


and the other thing.
 
2013-03-26 01:33:20 AM  

Bumblefark: My vote goes for "AIDS."

At least, that seemed to be the turning point in my small corner of the world, from what I can remember. You really couldn't discuss one without the other for quite a while there. AIDS was a horrifying new thing, and it probably did a lot to humanize the gay community to those of us who had no connection to it otherwise. (I was a 10 year old kid living out in the desert in Utah. The endless parade of magazine photos depicting gay men dying of AIDS is about all I knew of them or their lifestyle, at the time.)

It also had a way of bringing homophobia out into the open, in a way that it could be looked at and discussed in a critical way. Stupidity like that can really only survive when nobody actually talks about it. I remember being horrified by the ugliness of what came spilling out of the mouths of people I otherwise respected.


As sad as it is I would have to agree with you on this one. The down side is a lot of people still think the two go together most of the other gay men I know are very careful and always safe so we don't get it but I know sever stright girls that think its ok to sleep around without condoms because they are on birth control
 
2013-03-26 01:37:00 AM  

Anderson's Pooper: And the fact that a lot of us would love to come home to someone who looks like Portia.


I'd switch for Portia.

/way to go, Ellen
 
2013-03-26 02:15:33 AM  

Huck And Molly Ziegler: I'm surprised by the lack of acknowledgment for Will & Grace. It was a big-dog NBC sitcom, for goodness' sake -- the epitome of prime time whitebread. To me, that means the gay characters were accepted.

What am I overlooking here? Was it TOO whitebread? Too campy? The "gay" part wasn't emphasized enough?

Meanwhile, Birmingham, Alabama, was one of the cities where chicken-turd management at the ABC station wouldn't air the coming-out episode. Everyone who wanted to see it went to a local city auditorium.


Will & Grace played a role in introducing middle America to gay people, but not in the same way as that nice lady dancing on the teevee in the afternoon in everyone's living rooms did. Ellen is a real person, one that housewives in middle America love because she's that perfect blend of inoffensive humor that's perfect for daytime television.

Also, Will & Grace did less to humanize gay people for the average American because the show was a mess of stereotypes that was already feeling dated by the end of its run. It presented the "safe" images of harmless camp gays and substituted a mass of stereotypes for actual character development. And well, all you need to know about the stereotypes is that the reason that John Barrowman didn't get the role of Will was because the producers didn't think he seemed gay enough.
 
2013-03-26 02:16:18 AM  
You know how I found out Ellen was a Lesbian?  I was watching a show on Old Comedy Central.  (It might have still been "HA!")  And they had these "comedy videos" shows that were just 1 or 2 minute clips of stand ups.  Anyway they had a clip back from 1981 where Ellen went on stage and said, "Hi, I'm Ellen deGeneres, Lesbian Comedian."

O... K...  I'm fine with this. 

You have to understand this was at the height of Elle's surge as a stand up with multiple specials under her belt and people fishing for sit-com roles for her.  Comedy Central just OUTED her right at the moment she was peaking.  And it was done just as one of dozens of clips.  Just because they liked to show really early clips of famous comics.

Ellen deGeneres didn't come out of the closet in 1997.  She came out of the closet in 1981.  Then had to go BACK IN the closet.  Managers and Hollywood douches told her to "Ixnay on the Esbianlay" if you want to have a career.

And when I saw that clip I was already a big fan.  I saw her stuff.  I heard the BOYFRIEND jokes.  I mean how humiliating.  I mean all your friends and family know and you've got to lie about who you are just to PASS???

I mean one of the keys to great stand-up is that you have to be completely HONEST.  How's she supposed to be an effective performer when she has to LIE to everyone every night?  Until the joke ran so thin it was ridiculous.

Ellen didn't come out
 
2013-03-26 02:24:26 AM  
Oh, shiat, no, she's not.  Her show show immediately went belly up.  Three years later she managed a new one-and it went a whole eight episodes aired before it was yanked.  She wasn't on the goddamn air enough to have significant influence.

Now, you want to claim Will & Grace influenced things, feel free.  It was actually on TV, and got good ratings, too.
 
2013-03-26 02:30:46 AM  
This is dumb. It's time because it's time.
 
2013-03-26 03:01:30 AM  
In a way Ellen's the Wayne Brady of Homophobia.  The Reductio ad Absurdum of Homophobia.  Defying all the stereotypes, while you get a sense that this is the real deal with no "Uncle Tom-ism", no sucking up.  No standing above the Stereotype and condemning those who don't or can't like Bill Cosby.  Just being HERSELF and letting people know that person until they recognize it as Cool.

It's not really an accomplishment on her part.  It's more of a reflection on how much Gays and Lesbians have had to bend over backwards, like Black people before them to make themselves palatable to the general community.  Then you try to make others accept you and then you're a SELL OUT.

You have to thread this Needle of being authentically YOU and not part of the Stereotype and still appealing to the General Community which is full of stereotypes and judgment.

"Will and Grace" and "Queer Eye" made Gay COOL, but cool only to a segment of the population.  The ones who were probably come to your side anyway. The Homophobes came up with new stereotypes.  Like they hated the "N*gger-lovers" of the 1960s, you can know hate the "F*g-Hags and Metrosexuals."
 
2013-03-26 03:29:47 AM  
why do these threads always seem to leave out Doug Ballard and Don McManus who played the gay couple on Northern Exposure?  I'm sure someone is going to whine about how they were stereotyped but I always thought they were presented as likeable and generally welcomed as opposed to being demeaned.  I don't really think gay actors playing straight roles have done squat towards the general public accepting gays,

For the record, I liked Ellen's Margo Van Meter character from Open House (yeah, I watched it) a lot more than her later work.
 
2013-03-26 03:54:01 AM  
rynthetyn:  And well, all you need to know about the stereotypes is that the reason that John Barrowman didn't get the role of Will was because the producers didn't think he seemed gay enough.

Wait, wait, wait. WHAT? They passed over BARROWMAN?

*where do I send the hate mail*...
 
2013-03-26 03:55:41 AM  

puckrock2000: foxyshadis: No love for Robin Bartlett, who played the lesbian sister on Mad About You?

/Secret crush!

I preferred the actress who played her girlfriend, Suzie Plakson

[encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 183x275]

/mmm, redheads


How could I forget! You have great taste, sir.
 
2013-03-26 03:58:41 AM  

stonelotus: why do these threads always seem to leave out Doug Ballard and Don McManus who played the gay couple on Northern Exposure?  I'm sure someone is going to whine about how they were stereotyped but I always thought they were presented as likeable and generally welcomed as opposed to being demeaned.  I don't really think gay actors playing straight roles have done squat towards the general public accepting gays,


We also never see Daffyd, the only gay in the village.
 
2013-03-26 04:19:42 AM  

rynthetyn: Also, Will & Grace did less to humanize gay people for the average American because the show was a mess of stereotypes that was already feeling dated by the end of its run. It presented the "safe" images of harmless camp gays and substituted a mass of stereotypes for actual character development. And well, all you need to know about the stereotypes is that the reason that John Barrowman didn't get the role of Will was because the producers didn't think he seemed gay enough.


Not to mention the fact that the gay characters are universally depicted as sexless infantile man-children who need a good woman to put them on the right path.
 
2013-03-26 05:00:55 AM  

PonceAlyosha: rynthetyn: Also, Will & Grace did less to humanize gay people for the average American because the show was a mess of stereotypes that was already feeling dated by the end of its run. It presented the "safe" images of harmless camp gays and substituted a mass of stereotypes for actual character development. And well, all you need to know about the stereotypes is that the reason that John Barrowman didn't get the role of Will was because the producers didn't think he seemed gay enough.

Not to mention the fact that the gay characters are universally depicted as sexless infantile man-children who need a good woman to put them on the right path.


Yeah, that too. How many seasons was the show on before they actually showed Will kissing another guy? Not to mention the fact that I have a hard time believing that an attractive, successful lawyer in New York City during the time that show was on the air would have had as much trouble with relationships as he had.

I think it was probably better for Barrowman's career longevity that he didn't get the part. Though, Will might not have come across as such a sexless walking stereotype if Barrowman had played him because I don't think he's capable of playing a character that doesn't ooze sex appeal.
 
2013-03-26 06:27:01 AM  

JohnnyC: I guess the article isn't referring to me... It's never mattered to me if someone was homosexual or not. The one exclusion to that is as it regards to a woman I was interested in. If she wasn't interested in guys, that mattered to me because I didn't want to chase after someone who wasn't interested in my gender. Ellen had absolutely nothing to do with that. I've never actually liked her very much... not that I disliked her, just that she was supposed to be a comedian and I didn't really find her all that funny. After she came out as being gay it seemed that's all she was about, which was even more boring than her comedy was.


Pretty much the same here. I saw the buildup to Ellen coming out and thought they whole drama around it was retarded. I just did not see what the big deal was and could not find any farks to give. Which is probably what most LGBT's want.
 
2013-03-26 07:40:31 AM  

HotWingAgenda: Either you are not a very attractive man to teh gayz,.....



I would hope not, since I'm a woman.
 
2013-03-26 08:41:13 AM  

berylman: Random sexually ambiguous post mentioning Melissa  Ethernet so there.....


I hear she's a decendent of Joan of ARCnet...
 
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