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(Mother Jones)   Is 3D printing the secret weapon our world needs to combat climate change?   (motherjones.com) divider line 76
    More: Interesting, climate change, fights  
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2338 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Mar 2013 at 4:58 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-25 04:59:46 PM
Short answer - no. Long answer - nooooooooooooooooo.
 
2013-03-25 05:01:15 PM

Treygreen13: Short answer - no. Long answer - nooooooooooooooooo.


images2.wikia.nocookie.net

Did you mean Yes?
 
2013-03-25 05:03:58 PM
if the usual peeps show up, this thread should be popcorn-tastic
 
2013-03-25 05:06:51 PM

Rhames: Treygreen13: Short answer - no. Long answer - nooooooooooooooooo.

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 300x226]

Did you mean Yes?


No?

Anyway, everything I read about 3D printing makes me feel like one day it will be one of the technologies you advance to in Civilization 7 instead of being lumped in with "Future Tech". And then your 3D Printed Modern Armor will lose to a homegrown spearman.
 
2013-03-25 05:11:11 PM
nope
 
2013-03-25 05:11:27 PM
No, but it will someday let me print off a sisters of battle army.
 
2013-03-25 05:17:50 PM
Right now and maybe forever, 3D printing is *much* less efficient that mass producing a part.  This is just fine for prototyping or making one-off parts that you can't get off-the-shelf, but a factory can make a million plastic gears in an injection moulding operation for much less money and, critical for climate concerns, energy per part than I can with a printer.
 
2013-03-25 05:19:43 PM
So... reduce economy of scale in production and hope the reduction in travel and shipping balance it out?
 
2013-03-25 05:19:59 PM
No, but it'll let me download a car someday.
 
2013-03-25 05:26:41 PM

FuturePastNow: No, but it'll let me download a car someday.


Just wait until you can download a Bear!
 
2013-03-25 05:30:46 PM

SultanofSchwing: FuturePastNow: No, but it'll let me download a car someday.

Just wait until you can download a Bear!


What if you accidentally download a virus that... like... you know... a REAL virus.  Then you're dead!
 
2013-03-25 05:34:08 PM

SultanofSchwing: FuturePastNow: No, but it'll let me download a car someday.

Just wait until you can download a Bear!


I like that.

"heeeeey Gunther... whatcha doin?"

"makin a wolverine"

"a wolveaAAH FARK GET IT OFF ME!! GET IT OFF ME!!"
 
2013-03-25 05:35:11 PM
No.

It'll put even more people out of a job though if it does for manufacturing what automation did.

Still want it though.
 
2013-03-25 05:38:50 PM
I know what I'd do with my 3D printer though....

Soft Latex materials...

Kate Upton photo....

Yes.
 
2013-03-25 05:50:36 PM
Even if the process is sped up, people need to consider the full picture. How environmentally friendly is the binder? Same thing with the main building material. How much is wasted? What about the process to create the materials used? These are the same questions that people forget to ask about solar power. Sure, it's clean once it's running, but the manufacturing process for the panels uses some nasty chemicals, and then there is the issue of battery storage.

I think that in the long run, 3D printing will have some nice applications, and make life much easier, but I don't think it's going to be a magic fix for everything...
 
2013-03-25 05:52:24 PM

RatOmeter: Right now and maybe forever, 3D printing is *much* less efficient that mass producing a part.  This is just fine for prototyping or making one-off parts that you can't get off-the-shelf, but a factory can make a million plastic gears in an injection moulding operation for much less money and, critical for climate concerns, energy per part than I can with a printer.


You know what would be nice? Creating a database of old car parts that you can use to print replacements for, identical to the originals. There would be an environmental boost, no more junk yards of rusting metal, no need for big warehouses, print the parts on an as-needed basis and ship them out immediately.
 
2013-03-25 05:53:41 PM

Mikey1969: RatOmeter: Right now and maybe forever, 3D printing is *much* less efficient that mass producing a part.  This is just fine for prototyping or making one-off parts that you can't get off-the-shelf, but a factory can make a million plastic gears in an injection moulding operation for much less money and, critical for climate concerns, energy per part than I can with a printer.

You know what would be nice? Creating a database of old car parts that you can use to print replacements for, identical to the originals. There would be an environmental boost, no more junk yards of rusting metal, no need for big warehouses, print the parts on an as-needed basis and ship them out immediately.


Wouldn't you still have the junk yards?
 
2013-03-25 05:54:30 PM
3-D printing is also a fine unicorn repellant.
 
2013-03-25 05:55:08 PM
I see we're still at the "irrational infatuation" stage of our relationship with this technology.

Did 2D printing kill the publishing industry?
 
2013-03-25 06:02:28 PM
I'm not seeing the answer is no.

But the answer is No.

/Giorgioioio Tsuludposos
 
2013-03-25 06:07:24 PM

Treygreen13: Mikey1969: RatOmeter: Right now and maybe forever, 3D printing is *much* less efficient that mass producing a part.  This is just fine for prototyping or making one-off parts that you can't get off-the-shelf, but a factory can make a million plastic gears in an injection moulding operation for much less money and, critical for climate concerns, energy per part than I can with a printer.

You know what would be nice? Creating a database of old car parts that you can use to print replacements for, identical to the originals. There would be an environmental boost, no more junk yards of rusting metal, no need for big warehouses, print the parts on an as-needed basis and ship them out immediately.

Wouldn't you still have the junk yards?


no because 3d printing.


i'm waiting for someone to come up with practical nanomechanical assembly in vats. then you simply dump in pile of old and busted and out comes new car. hell if you had atom-level manipulation you could just engineer the damn thing to never require oil, just fill the tank with gas, the radiator, and off it goes. all self-contained. when it breaks, just have it towed down to the vat shop and they rebuild it.

total pie in the sky right now but man that'd be the ticket.
 
2013-03-25 06:22:03 PM
Until we get something akin to The Diamond Age, 3D printing is sort of like artisanal cheese. Expensive, low production, and something exquisite in the results if done well.
 
2013-03-25 06:23:20 PM

buttery_shame_cave: Treygreen13: Mikey1969: RatOmeter: Right now and maybe forever, 3D printing is *much* less efficient that mass producing a part.  This is just fine for prototyping or making one-off parts that you can't get off-the-shelf, but a factory can make a million plastic gears in an injection moulding operation for much less money and, critical for climate concerns, energy per part than I can with a printer.

You know what would be nice? Creating a database of old car parts that you can use to print replacements for, identical to the originals. There would be an environmental boost, no more junk yards of rusting metal, no need for big warehouses, print the parts on an as-needed basis and ship them out immediately.

Wouldn't you still have the junk yards?

no because 3d printing.


i'm waiting for someone to come up with practical nanomechanical assembly in vats. then you simply dump in pile of old and busted and out comes new car. hell if you had atom-level manipulation you could just engineer the damn thing to never require oil, just fill the tank with gas, the radiator, and off it goes. all self-contained. when it breaks, just have it towed down to the vat shop and they rebuild it.

total pie in the sky right now but man that'd be the ticket.


Why would there be a vat shop? Why not make a portable vat that you can take anywhere?
 
2013-03-25 06:25:03 PM

Mikey1969: RatOmeter: Right now and maybe forever, 3D printing is *much* less efficient that mass producing a part.  This is just fine for prototyping or making one-off parts that you can't get off-the-shelf, but a factory can make a million plastic gears in an injection moulding operation for much less money and, critical for climate concerns, energy per part than I can with a printer.

You know what would be nice? Creating a database of old car parts that you can use to print replacements for, identical to the originals. There would be an environmental boost, no more junk yards of rusting metal, no need for big warehouses, print the parts on an as-needed basis and ship them out immediately.


Because, you know, a plastic piston seems like a really good idea
 
2013-03-25 06:28:21 PM

poot_rootbeer: I see we're still at the "irrational infatuation" stage of our relationship with this technology.

Did 2D printing kill the publishing industry?


Well 2D printing was missing two rather key properties that 3D printing has (so far):  The internet and no HP's pricing of the raw material.  We'll see how this plays out but the example above about being able to print out an entire warhammer table top army?  That has...interesting potential.
 
2013-03-25 06:36:55 PM

p89tech: Because, you know, a plastic piston seems like a really good idea


I'd assume that things like car parts would be "printed" out of steel or similar metals using a selective laser sintering process.  Still won't have the exact same physical properties as a cast or milled metal part, but could be within tolerances for many applications.

Fused deposition modeling -- that is, extruded plastic -- is probably going to be the only technology that's affordable at the consumer level for the next few years.  But I could see someone like GM outfitting a warehouse with a row of SLS machines and fabricating new metal parts on demand instead of maintaining inventory.
 
2013-03-25 06:38:44 PM

p89tech: Mikey1969: RatOmeter: Right now and maybe forever, 3D printing is *much* less efficient that mass producing a part.  This is just fine for prototyping or making one-off parts that you can't get off-the-shelf, but a factory can make a million plastic gears in an injection moulding operation for much less money and, critical for climate concerns, energy per part than I can with a printer.

You know what would be nice? Creating a database of old car parts that you can use to print replacements for, identical to the originals. There would be an environmental boost, no more junk yards of rusting metal, no need for big warehouses, print the parts on an as-needed basis and ship them out immediately.

Because, you know, a plastic piston seems like a really good idea


This.  There was a lot of talk about 3D printing guns to get around any new gun laws.  Based on the plastic in the printers I saw, they would be good for about 0.25 shots.
 
2013-03-25 06:41:34 PM

p89tech: Mikey1969: RatOmeter: Right now and maybe forever, 3D printing is *much* less efficient that mass producing a part.  This is just fine for prototyping or making one-off parts that you can't get off-the-shelf, but a factory can make a million plastic gears in an injection moulding operation for much less money and, critical for climate concerns, energy per part than I can with a printer.

You know what would be nice? Creating a database of old car parts that you can use to print replacements for, identical to the originals. There would be an environmental boost, no more junk yards of rusting metal, no need for big warehouses, print the parts on an as-needed basis and ship them out immediately.

Because, you know, a plastic piston seems like a really good idea


Plastic isn't the only 3D printing medium available champ.  You can also 3D print a frame, make a mold, then cast metal parts in that mold.  Probably not practical for all home purposes, but don't dismiss it entirely as being "plastics only."
 
2013-03-25 06:43:45 PM

Lochsteppe: buttery_shame_cave: Treygreen13: Mikey1969: RatOmeter: Right now and maybe forever, 3D printing is *much* less efficient that mass producing a part.  This is just fine for prototyping or making one-off parts that you can't get off-the-shelf, but a factory can make a million plastic gears in an injection moulding operation for much less money and, critical for climate concerns, energy per part than I can with a printer.

You know what would be nice? Creating a database of old car parts that you can use to print replacements for, identical to the originals. There would be an environmental boost, no more junk yards of rusting metal, no need for big warehouses, print the parts on an as-needed basis and ship them out immediately.

Wouldn't you still have the junk yards?

no because 3d printing.


i'm waiting for someone to come up with practical nanomechanical assembly in vats. then you simply dump in pile of old and busted and out comes new car. hell if you had atom-level manipulation you could just engineer the damn thing to never require oil, just fill the tank with gas, the radiator, and off it goes. all self-contained. when it breaks, just have it towed down to the vat shop and they rebuild it.

total pie in the sky right now but man that'd be the ticket.

Why would there be a vat shop? Why not make a portable vat that you can take anywhere?


my comment was based off a white-paper i did for one of my engineering courses, on the subject of nanotech and nanomechanical assembly. instructor termed it 'science fiction, but reasonably plausible science fiction'. the spec was for nannites in a tank of ethanol serving as a one-off production shop.

now a portable vat for something car sized? too heavy and awkward. you have to have all the power stuff, control equipment, tanks for the ethanol(in my whitepaper for materials science i spec'd the nanites as running on ethanol, which would keep them from going rogue and eating up everything, as their power source(and motile media) would evaporate outside of closed conditions), etc etc etc etc. too expensive to set up and too awkward to be portable.

it's a cool idea but there are so many tech hurdles that it remains in the deep 'fiction, but plausible' field. motility of the nannites, communication to the nanites, networking, powering them, building nanites that can manipulate materials at the atomic level, so on and so forth.
 
2013-03-25 07:00:21 PM

buttery_shame_cave: Lochsteppe: buttery_shame_cave: Treygreen13: Mikey1969: RatOmeter: Right now and maybe forever, 3D printing is *much* less efficient that mass producing a part.  This is just fine for prototyping or making one-off parts that you can't get off-the-shelf, but a factory can make a million plastic gears in an injection moulding operation for much less money and, critical for climate concerns, energy per part than I can with a printer.

You know what would be nice? Creating a database of old car parts that you can use to print replacements for, identical to the originals. There would be an environmental boost, no more junk yards of rusting metal, no need for big warehouses, print the parts on an as-needed basis and ship them out immediately.

Wouldn't you still have the junk yards?

no because 3d printing.


i'm waiting for someone to come up with practical nanomechanical assembly in vats. then you simply dump in pile of old and busted and out comes new car. hell if you had atom-level manipulation you could just engineer the damn thing to never require oil, just fill the tank with gas, the radiator, and off it goes. all self-contained. when it breaks, just have it towed down to the vat shop and they rebuild it.

total pie in the sky right now but man that'd be the ticket.

Why would there be a vat shop? Why not make a portable vat that you can take anywhere?

my comment was based off a white-paper i did for one of my engineering courses, on the subject of nanotech and nanomechanical assembly. instructor termed it 'science fiction, but reasonably plausible science fiction'. the spec was for nannites in a tank of ethanol serving as a one-off production shop.

now a portable vat for something car sized? too heavy and awkward. you have to have all the power stuff, control equipment, tanks for the ethanol(in my whitepaper for materials science i spec'd the nanites as running on ethanol, which would keep them from going rogue and eating up everything, as their power source(and ...


You make it sound so complicated. I built some nanites out of cheese and ham cubes and toothpicks once. It was totally not hard, and I don't even have a fancy degree in nanitery.
 
2013-03-25 07:04:32 PM

Treygreen13: Short answer - no. Long answer - nooooooooooooooooo.


Luddite! 3D printing will save the speeeeeeeecieeeeees! Don't you see I care about every human being on Earth by making my own Yoda coffee cups?!

Lochsteppe: You make it sound so complicated. I built some nanites out of cheese and ham cubes and toothpicks once. It was totally not hard, and I don't even have a fancy degree in nanitery.


See!? Where there's a delusional sci-fi fantasy, there's a way! Now where's my VR helmet? Where's my Haloperidol?
 
2013-03-25 07:05:38 PM

Treygreen13: Mikey1969: RatOmeter: Right now and maybe forever, 3D printing is *much* less efficient that mass producing a part.  This is just fine for prototyping or making one-off parts that you can't get off-the-shelf, but a factory can make a million plastic gears in an injection moulding operation for much less money and, critical for climate concerns, energy per part than I can with a printer.

You know what would be nice? Creating a database of old car parts that you can use to print replacements for, identical to the originals. There would be an environmental boost, no more junk yards of rusting metal, no need for big warehouses, print the parts on an as-needed basis and ship them out immediately.

Wouldn't you still have the junk yards?


No, in my scenario everything would get recycled that could be immediately, rather than have the junk yards used for sourcing replacement parts. That's what I meant, not that it could really work, but it would be nice. Of course, the land these junk yards are on couldn't be used for anything else because the soil is so saturated with assorted pollutants...
 
2013-03-25 07:21:17 PM

buttery_shame_cave: now a portable vat for something car sized? too heavy and awkward. you have to have all the power stuff, control equipment, tanks for the ethanol(in my whitepaper for materials science i spec'd the nanites as running on ethanol, which would keep them from going rogue and eating up everything, as their power source(and ...


Not if you put the vat on the inside, and have it build the car from the inside out.  Just have one hole going in for raw materials and another one coming out for waste.  You could even set it up to internally build and "bud off" another small vatcar whenever you needed a new one.
 
2013-03-25 07:26:29 PM
No but a condom will...   For you that is.  not me.
 
2013-03-25 07:28:14 PM

Lochsteppe:

You make it sound so complicated. I built some nanites out of cheese and ham cubes and toothpicks once. It was totally not hard, and I don't even have a fancy degree in nanitery.

Hopefully you provided nanitery napkins...
 
2013-03-25 07:29:11 PM

SultanofSchwing: p89tech: Mikey1969: RatOmeter: Right now and maybe forever, 3D printing is *much* less efficient that mass producing a part.  This is just fine for prototyping or making one-off parts that you can't get off-the-shelf, but a factory can make a million plastic gears in an injection moulding operation for much less money and, critical for climate concerns, energy per part than I can with a printer.

You know what would be nice? Creating a database of old car parts that you can use to print replacements for, identical to the originals. There would be an environmental boost, no more junk yards of rusting metal, no need for big warehouses, print the parts on an as-needed basis and ship them out immediately.

Because, you know, a plastic piston seems like a really good idea

Plastic isn't the only 3D printing medium available champ.  You can also 3D print a frame, make a mold, then cast metal parts in that mold.  Probably not practical for all home purposes, but don't dismiss it entirely as being "plastics only."


Where in your example is 3D printing using any other medium than plastic?  After you print the plastic frame everything after that is not 3D printing.  It's form-building and metalcasting.

In the original example of printing car parts, unless the printer works with molten steel -- which it doesn't -- you are printing plastic car parts.
 
2013-03-25 07:38:40 PM

RickN99: SultanofSchwing: p89tech: Mikey1969: RatOmeter: Right now and maybe forever, 3D printing is *much* less efficient that mass producing a part.  This is just fine for prototyping or making one-off parts that you can't get off-the-shelf, but a factory can make a million plastic gears in an injection moulding operation for much less money and, critical for climate concerns, energy per part than I can with a printer.

You know what would be nice? Creating a database of old car parts that you can use to print replacements for, identical to the originals. There would be an environmental boost, no more junk yards of rusting metal, no need for big warehouses, print the parts on an as-needed basis and ship them out immediately.

Because, you know, a plastic piston seems like a really good idea

Plastic isn't the only 3D printing medium available champ.  You can also 3D print a frame, make a mold, then cast metal parts in that mold.  Probably not practical for all home purposes, but don't dismiss it entirely as being "plastics only."

Where in your example is 3D printing using any other medium than plastic?  After you print the plastic frame everything after that is not 3D printing.  It's form-building and metalcasting.

In the original example of printing car parts, unless the printer works with molten steel -- which it doesn't -- you are printing plastic car parts.


Since google is hard.  An example of "3d printing to metal"
http://production3dprinters.com/slm/direct-metal-slm

It's really not that different from computer controlled milling, just more sophisticated.
 
2013-03-25 07:59:35 PM

poot_rootbeer: I see we're still at the "irrational infatuation" stage of our relationship with this technology.

Did 2D printing kill the publishing industry?


It did hurt the printing industry as companies started doing print jobs in house with a Mac and a laser printer.
 
2013-03-25 07:59:46 PM

poot_rootbeer: I see we're still at the "irrational infatuation" stage of our relationship with this technology.

Did 2D printing kill the publishing industry?


I don't remember where I read this, but in the first dot-com boom there was an idea for a machine that could print and bind books on demand, thus making it possible for bookstores to sell any book for which an electronic copy was available--instead of having to order the book they don't have in stock, they'd just download an electronic copy and print it right then and there.  But the idea never went anywhere because the publishing industry is even more stuck in the past than the music or movie industries, and none of the big publishers were willing to support it.
 
2013-03-25 08:06:48 PM
Why, are they printing millions of awls to jam into AGW deniers' temples?
 
2013-03-25 08:37:01 PM

BumpInTheNight: poot_rootbeer: I see we're still at the "irrational infatuation" stage of our relationship with this technology.

Did 2D printing kill the publishing industry?

Well 2D printing was missing two rather key properties that 3D printing has (so far):  The internet and no HP's pricing of the raw material.  We'll see how this plays out but the example above about being able to print out an entire warhammer table top army?  That has...interesting potential.


The potential is in printing the Warhammer leaders with your family's or gaming group's faces.
 
2013-03-25 08:39:02 PM
No, we will 3D print completely new things, while still buying the old things
 
2013-03-25 08:45:04 PM
Somebody at mother jones doesn't know ANYTHING about manufacturing processes.  It's like they think the materials they feed into their printers will just fall out of thin air, rather than having to be, you know, driven to their houses with a truck.  Honestly, even from an environmental standpoint, mass production is going to be a lot more efficient than 3-d printing.
 
2013-03-25 09:00:37 PM

HMS_Blinkin: Somebody at mother jones doesn't know ANYTHING about manufacturing processes.  It's like they think the materials they feed into their printers will just fall out of thin air, rather than having to be, you know, driven to their houses with a truck.  Honestly, even from an environmental standpoint, mass production is going to be a lot more efficient than 3-d printing.


LUDDITE! FEEL THE WRATH OF MY 3D PRINTED WARP DRIVE AS I COLONIZE THE GALAXY!!!!
 
2013-03-25 09:08:34 PM

SultanofSchwing: p89tech: Mikey1969: RatOmeter: Right now and maybe forever, 3D printing is *much* less efficient that mass producing a part.  This is just fine for prototyping or making one-off parts that you can't get off-the-shelf, but a factory can make a million plastic gears in an injection moulding operation for much less money and, critical for climate concerns, energy per part than I can with a printer.

You know what would be nice? Creating a database of old car parts that you can use to print replacements for, identical to the originals. There would be an environmental boost, no more junk yards of rusting metal, no need for big warehouses, print the parts on an as-needed basis and ship them out immediately.

Because, you know, a plastic piston seems like a really good idea

Plastic isn't the only 3D printing medium available champ.  You can also 3D print a frame, make a mold, then cast metal parts in that mold.  Probably not practical for all home purposes, but don't dismiss it entirely as being "plastics only."


Yep, and if you've got tons o money, you can print usable titanium parts:
http://www.3ders.org/articles/20120816-charge-bikes-eads-3d-printing -t itanium-bicycle-parts.html
 
2013-03-25 09:49:34 PM
Pffft, 3D printers, wake me when they have nano-paste(^).
 
2013-03-25 09:49:58 PM
All I know about 3D printing is that it may be the only way for me to repair my girlfriend's laptop. The zero-insertion-force connector (or shiat.) for the keyboard ribbon is broken. The flap that holds the ribbon down won't stay in the connector. If I want another flap, it's at least $50 out of my girlfriend's wallet for another shiat. from another motherboard. It's a $.00005 piece.

I want the person who designed this connector to be executed in a public spectacle to be held at high noon on April 15th at Arrowhead Stadium.
 
2013-03-25 09:53:39 PM

buttery_shame_cave: hell if you had atom-level manipulation you could just engineer the damn thing to never require oil


www.fuuka.warosu.org
 
2013-03-25 09:55:55 PM
The only concept more over hyped than climate change is 3D printing. Nice mashup.
 
2013-03-25 10:10:49 PM

Marine1: All I know about 3D printing is that it may be the only way for me to repair my girlfriend's laptop. The zero-insertion-force connector (or shiat.) for the keyboard ribbon is broken. The flap that holds the ribbon down won't stay in the connector. If I want another flap, it's at least $50 out of my girlfriend's wallet for another shiat. from another motherboard. It's a $.00005 piece.

I want the person who designed this connector to be executed in a public spectacle to be held at high noon on April 15th at Arrowhead Stadium.


Tear off a small piece of paper and feed it in on the non-contact side of the ribbon cable as you plug it in (sturdies up the connection).  Test that the keyboard is working before the next step... then mix up a small amount of 5 minute epoxy (get at Wal*Mart or an auto parts store) and dab a bit of it overlapping on the ribbon and its connector in 3 or 4 places.  Leave that sucker alone overnight (5 minutes be damned), then put the lappy back together.
 
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