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(Ars Technica)   The FAA is starting to fold on using electronic devices during plane takeoffs and landings   (arstechnica.com) divider line 19
    More: Cool, Federal Aviation Administration, NYT, Consumer Electronics Association, Association of Flight Attendants, anonymous source, deputy assistant  
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8262 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Mar 2013 at 11:20 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-03-25 11:25:54 AM  
4 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: Calmamity: As long as cell phones remain verboten.

Or, conversely, as long as knives remain allowed and the rules are further loosened so I can stab any motherfu*ker on their phone next to me.

Cell phone jammer is your friend.


Out of all the electronic devices I can think of as "harmless" on a plane, something that floods some of the RF spectrum isnt one of those.
2013-03-25 11:36:35 AM  
3 votes:

vudukungfu: Dude. You can blow up an huge space ship with just an apple lap top.
Saw it in a move once.
they can't put it in a movie if it isn't true.

/Bon JOUR!


The most unrealistic part of that movie is that his mac never ONCE demanded he update Adobe.
2013-03-25 11:50:14 AM  
2 votes:

Hack Patooey: Marcus Aurelius: Calmamity: As long as cell phones remain verboten.

Or, conversely, as long as knives remain allowed and the rules are further loosened so I can stab any motherfu*ker on their phone next to me.

Cell phone jammer is your friend.

Out of all the electronic devices I can think of as "harmless" on a plane, something that floods some of the RF spectrum isnt one of those.


If cell phone frequencies could actually harm an aircraft, the things would be falling out of the sky every day.
2013-03-25 11:30:01 AM  
2 votes:
Let's see... what is essentially a Faraday cage designed to contain several high-power radios and fly in the upper atmosphere where it is subject to all kinds of radiation we don't see on the ground may be hardened against Joe Bleau's GameBoy.

Shocking.
2013-03-25 02:03:30 PM  
1 votes:
is the tech safe to use without interfering with the aircraft? for the most part yes...thats not the point.

a sudden acceleration/deceleration and that ipad is now a projectile...thats the issue when it hits betty sue in row 23.

are we really to the point in society that this minimal time without our tech is unbearable? i for one say that if you answer yes, you are a tech addict and should consider help.
2013-03-25 01:12:39 PM  
1 votes:

redmid17: For one thing, he and other industry executives said, standard cabin noise covers up much conversational noise, yet people with cellphones pressed to their ears in that environment somehow do not feel the need to speak louder to compensate.


That's BS. Maybe in some cultures, but in the US? Go to an airport business lounge and listen to the paunchy, middle-aged marketing execs speaking into their phones like they're Titanic-era shipboard speaking tubes... it doesn't take much imagination to figure out what they'd be like on planes. And if you lack that imagination, try a train in the UK.
2013-03-25 01:05:26 PM  
1 votes:

The Irresponsible Captain: Let's see... what is essentially a Faraday cage designed to contain several high-power radios and fly in the upper atmosphere where it is subject to all kinds of radiation we don't see on the ground may be hardened against Joe Bleau's GameBoy.

Shocking.


The radios are not all that powerful. 25w nominal. Most mobile ham operators have a more powerful transmitter in their car; their homes will have up to 1500w amplifiers. Also, RFI considerations are not high priority in the design of aircraft cabins; they sheild the equipment, of course, but not the antennas and such. There is a documented case of a DVD player affecting the nav equipment in an airliner to the tune of 30 degrees off. When switched off the problem went away.

Shocking.

/Ham operator
//100w pep in car :)
///100w pep at home :(
2013-03-25 12:53:10 PM  
1 votes:

theresnothinglft: Ok I read the article while typing this... doesn't change much about my view. That said I will still comply and switch my cellphone into airplane mode when I fly until this is changed.


I think you'll always be told to switch to airplane mode, the question is should you turn it to airplane mode before takeoff, or do you have to turn it off completely. Leaving a 3G connection running in a plane is horrific for your battery life and for the towers and it will constantly be switching towers at a much faster speed than a car as you fly. You'll also drain battery life looking for a signal. Unless the plane offers a 3G repeater (doubt ever). You should turn it on airplane mode before you takeoff for your own and everyone's good (for the cellphone network's sake, not the planes).
2013-03-25 12:29:13 PM  
1 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: Hack Patooey: Marcus Aurelius: Calmamity: As long as cell phones remain verboten.

Or, conversely, as long as knives remain allowed and the rules are further loosened so I can stab any motherfu*ker on their phone next to me.

Cell phone jammer is your friend.

Out of all the electronic devices I can think of as "harmless" on a plane, something that floods some of the RF spectrum isnt one of those.

If cell phone frequencies could actually harm an aircraft, the things would be falling out of the sky every day.


This.

Is why the ban will probably be lifted by 2014 as per the article's headline (though i didn't read it).  LOL no cell phones during takeoff or landing... as if they realize how much cell phone signal goes through those planes while on the ground or even up to 1000ft.  And don't tell me the whole plane's a Faraday cage cause they let you use phones when the plane is taxiing to the gate after a landing and they work clear as day.  That wouldn't be possible in a Faraday cage.

Ok I read the article while typing this... doesn't change much about my view.  That said I will still comply and switch my cellphone into airplane mode when I fly until this is changed.
2013-03-25 12:26:20 PM  
1 votes:
The FAA says one thing, certain airlines say another. I usually don't fly US Airways (who in their right mind would?) but normally when flying other airlines putting your phone in "airplane mode" is just fine. On US Airways they made an announcement when they closed the door that phones must be turned completely off and they don't do that whole "airplane mode" thing. They said anything with an on or off switch needs to be turned off. Yeah, I left it on.
2013-03-25 12:24:10 PM  
1 votes:

kendelrio: Shill


No, just someone who reads stuff like the comp.risks newsgroup. My job has nothing to do with airplanes, phones, or radios.
2013-03-25 12:17:16 PM  
1 votes:

Hack Patooey: Slaxl: Also how is someone having a conversation on a mobile any different to having a conversation with the person next to them?

Because half the people on cellphones think you need to yell the whole distance the call is being made.


Emirates and plenty of other airlines have allowed this on international flights for years. Apparently it's not a problem.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/29/technology/29phones.html

"Emirates executives have even heard from skeptical pilots and flight attendants who mistakenly believed "the system was on but nobody was using it" on a particular flight, he said. "And I was able to go back to them and say, well 63 people had their phones on, and there were 22 phone calls and 68 messages."

"It's very emotional in the United States," said Benoit Debains, the chief executive of OnAir. He insisted that the anxiety was overblown. For one thing, he and other industry executives said, standard cabin noise covers up much conversational noise, yet people with cellphones pressed to their ears in that environment somehow do not feel the need to speak louder to compensate.

"I remember on the first flight we did, we asked one guy, 'What do you think about using the phone for voice in the cabin?' He said he was against it. But we said, 'You know, the guy across from you has been using his phone for the last five minutes.' "
2013-03-25 12:15:34 PM  
1 votes:

Ivo Shandor: vygramul: I live in constant fear that terrorists will figure out how dangerous cell phones are and stow a bunch that are turned-on in luggage.

Hypothetically, what if there were a 1-in-a-million chance of an active cell phone causing an accident on a flight? It would be useless as a terrorist tool, the vast majority of people who had flown with a phone turned on would report that absolutely nothing happened, but it would still be a serious overall hazard given the total number of flights that people take each year.

Cell phones can interfere with nearby electronics. This is an easily demonstrated fact. Who here hasn't ever heard the characteristic buzzing and popping of a GSM handset next to a speaker phone or audio amplifier? And that's just audio, not even starting to consider the effect on other radio systems which might happen to be on a harmonic of the frequency being transmitted by the phone. Given that many airlines were designed before the cell-phone era, and the wide diversity of bands and modulation schemes used by phones, I have no problem with them taking a safety-first approach and assuming that phones are potentially dangerous until proved otherwise. Airplane accidents are rarely the result of a single factor, so the concern is not that a phone will bring down a plane by itself but that it could glitch some other system at a critical moment. Again hypothetically, what if a phone transmission interfered with a TCAS message from another plane that was already on a collision course?

There is also a theoretical risk from other electronic devices. They all transmit some radio energy as leakage from the digital signals bouncing around inside them. Most radio receivers work by internally generating their own signal and mixing it with the one from the antenna (e.g. if you're listening to 101.1 FM your radio might be internally generating a 111.9 MHz signal) and this local-oscillator signal does leak out. However the levels of the leaked signals are much low ...


If there was any sort of actual threat (beyond the 1:100000000 chance happening)  they wouldn't be allowed on an the airplane, at all.
2013-03-25 12:01:36 PM  
1 votes:

Slaxl: Isn't the problem with 'cell phones' on flights more that you're several miles away from any signal tower?

Also how is someone having a conversation on a mobile any different to having a conversation with the person next to them?

So long as there are no children crying nearby then everything is fine with me.


I know one of the problems isn't the distance but the altitude.  At 30,000 feet, you can glom onto dozens of towers, taking channels away from other subscribers.  Don't know if they fixed this or not.
2013-03-25 11:58:26 AM  
1 votes:
Flew yesterday, left phone on airplane mode...

Still no cure for loading a plane full of passengers correctly. Hint: Load the back of the plane first you morons so I don't smack everyone with my bag and elbow.
2013-03-25 11:58:18 AM  
1 votes:

Slaxl: Isn't the problem with 'cell phones' on flights more that you're several miles away from any signal tower?


From Wiki:
Themaximum range of a mast (where it is not limited by interference with other masts nearby) depends on the same circumstances. Some technologies, such as GSM, normally have a fixed maximum range of 35 kilometres (22 mi), which is imposed by technical limitations.

If you're more than 22 miles away due to being on a plane, then you're probably too busy playing with the oxygen mask for your cell coverage to matter.
2013-03-25 11:47:48 AM  
1 votes:
If this change will allow me to keep my ear buds jammed in my ears to cover the shrieking wails of an infant on a plane, that would increase my flyer satisfaction.

It might even make me forget how much I feel like cattle getting into an airplane and how I get felt up on the way to the airplane.

I miss the days when it was fun to fly.
2013-03-25 11:39:11 AM  
1 votes:

Rapmaster2000: Great!  I can't wait to hear the girl in 23A yammer loudly into her cell phone in that way that all women under 22 do because they don't realize that their conversation isn't interesting to strangers.


It would be nice to be able to just leave my headphones on and read my Nook rather than dealing with the 'ZOMG, your e-ink device will cause this plane to crash on takeoff!'
2013-03-25 11:26:01 AM  
1 votes:
So long as my air-stewardess brings me this for lunch:

img441.imageshack.us
 
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