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(Opposing Views)   It's hard to attach a dollar amount to a police car ramming into two guys on a dirt bike, unless you're a lawyer. Spoiler: It's $100 million   (opposingviews.com) divider line 101
    More: Misc, Caught on Camera, PIT maneuver, Steve McClain, Hunts Point  
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7712 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Mar 2013 at 5:58 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-24 02:03:47 PM  
After the cruiser body slammed those guys, fellow cops moved in for the pre-requisite beatdown, but found they could do no further harm to the two piles of mangled flesh.  good one lived, but this civil action will go nowhere in his favor. I hope he learned not to ride with no license/helmet again.
 
2013-03-24 02:11:40 PM  
The first time the police cruiser hit the guy on the bike seems to be the cop's fault - he could have tried to pull him over without ramming the bike.  The second time after the guy runs and jumps on the back of the other bike is on two guys running away - if you get hurt/killed trying to flee the police that's on you.
 
2013-03-24 02:53:23 PM  
Could have just as easily cut them off, then the slow momentum of the bike would have stopped them with little to no harm. But I guess you're right, if you run from police, you deserve to die.
 
2013-03-24 02:58:28 PM  
That cop had to be going at least 50 when he hit those two on the dirtbike.

TuteTibiImperes: The first time the police cruiser hit the guy on the bike seems to be the cop's fault - he could have tried to pull him over without ramming the bike.  The second time after the guy runs and jumps on the back of the other bike is on two guys running away - if you get hurt/killed trying to flee the police that's on you.


The cop isn't Judge farking Dredd.  He doesn't get to decide who dies because of a couple of stupid kids on a goddamn dirtbike.
 
2013-03-24 03:03:05 PM  

panfried: Could have just as easily cut them off, then the slow momentum of the bike would have stopped them with little to no harm. But I guess you're right, if you run from police, you deserve to die.


I never said that, but the guy running escalated the situation.  If he had just stayed put in the first place all he would have had to deal with would have been a ticket for no tags/registration and improper equipment. He decided to try to run, which is what put him in the position to be injured or worse.

The police officer says he wasn't trying to ram them, that he just lost control.  Seeing as he did run into the first guy first though, that might be a stretch.  The survivor in the crash should be on the hook for his friends death (as it occurred during his commission of a crime) and the police officer probably needs some driving lessons and anger management classes.
 
2013-03-24 03:29:51 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: panfried: Could have just as easily cut them off, then the slow momentum of the bike would have stopped them with little to no harm. But I guess you're right, if you run from police, you deserve to die.

I never said that, but the guy running escalated the situation.  If he had just stayed put in the first place all he would have had to deal with would have been a ticket for no tags/registration and improper equipment. He decided to try to run, which is what put him in the position to be injured or worse.

The police officer says he wasn't trying to ram them, that he just lost control.  Seeing as he did run into the first guy first though, that might be a stretch.  The survivor in the crash should be on the hook for his friends death (as it occurred during his commission of a crime) and the police officer probably needs some driving lessons and anger management classes.


Crime?  No tags or helmet, evading police.  The cop didn't know why the kids where running, only that they where.  Best to kill them, just in case.
 
2013-03-24 03:35:56 PM  
panfried:Crime?  No tags or helmet, evading police.  The cop didn't know why the kids where running, only that they where.  Best to kill them, just in case.

i2.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-24 03:38:24 PM  

BunkyBrewman: The cop isn't Judge farking Dredd.  He doesn't get to decide who dies because of a couple of stupid kids on a goddamn dirtbike.


panfried: Crime? No tags or helmet, evading police. The cop didn't know why the kids where running, only that they where. Best to kill them, just in case.


FTA: Eddie Fernandez, 28, died in the Aug. 11 collision. Adalberto Gonzalez, 27, was injured and arrested.
 
2013-03-24 03:58:13 PM  
The penalty for jaywalking is death. The penalty will ALWAYS be death.

That's not the law of man. That's the laws of physics and biology. Jaywalking tickets are there to remind you that we humans care about one another.

These guys were on a dirt bike without helmets. The penalty is also extrajudicialy death and will remain thus until the sons of krypton come and give the power to withstand a high speed impact with the ground.
 
2013-03-24 04:00:15 PM  

Dogberry: BunkyBrewman: The cop isn't Judge farking Dredd.  He doesn't get to decide who dies because of a couple of stupid kids on a goddamn dirtbike.

panfried: Crime? No tags or helmet, evading police. The cop didn't know why the kids where running, only that they where. Best to kill them, just in case.

FTA: Eddie Fernandez, 28, died in the Aug. 11 collision. Adalberto Gonzalez, 27, was injured and arrested.


Adjusts onion.  Get off my lawn!
 
2013-03-24 06:04:46 PM  
Oh ffs. Did ANYONE watch the vid? The suspects drove the bike RIGHT OUT into traffic in front of the officer, who had 0 chance to slow down enough to not hit them. Nice try for the payoff for the scumbag lawyer though. Here is an idea, have a farking drivers license, register your vehicle, and if the cops are after you, a bad idea would be to pull suddenly in front of them trying to get away, and getting your stupid ass killed. Blaming the police for your retardation seems to be a common practice now days.
 
2013-03-24 06:05:36 PM  

vudutek: No tags or helmet, evading police.


Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it.
 
2013-03-24 06:08:14 PM  
It wuz uh accident.

Case closed.
 
2013-03-24 06:08:46 PM  
Here is today's lesson: Don't run from the law.
 
2013-03-24 06:08:46 PM  
If these guys were part of the crew that I see flying up 1st ave every now and again, I am not surprised.  Twice now I have seen them.  It is a swarm of about 30-40 dirtbikes and tricked-out quads heading up toward harlem.  They zip in and out of traffic popping wheelies, running red lights, and jumping up on sidewalks.  It looks suicidal (and fun as hell) but I have yet to see one smeared under the M-15 yet.
 
2013-03-24 06:09:54 PM  

panfried: But I guess you're right, if you run from police, you deserve to die.


Not death, but really, there needs to be a medal for it.  What do these people think is going to happen?  They will escape?
 
2013-03-24 06:17:11 PM  

Lsherm: Not death, but really, there needs to be a medal for it.  What do these people think is going to happen?  They will escape?


Many jurisdictions have stopped doing chases now, especially on motorcycles, for the reason that it endangers the public. They'll follow them from the air, wait until they stop, and then move in. The exceptions to this are violent crime and if there is someone being held hostage, of course.

Of course, you are right. You can't outrun a radio, no matter what GTA taught you.
 
2013-03-24 06:17:28 PM  

panfried: Could have just as easily cut them off, then the slow momentum of the bike would have stopped them with little to no harm. But I guess you're right, if you run from police, you deserve to die.


If a cop is insane enough to ram a speeding motorcycle with his car, I would not trust him not to shoot me like a dog. I might have bolted too.
 
2013-03-24 06:18:22 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: The first time the police cruiser hit the guy on the bike seems to be the cop's fault - he could have tried to pull him over without ramming the bike.  The second time after the guy runs and jumps on the back of the other bike is on two guys running away - if you get hurt/killed trying to flee the police that's on you.


Because being ran down and killed for a minor traffic violation is justice?  I hope you are trolling.
 
2013-03-24 06:21:20 PM  

Dragonflew: If a cop is insane enough to ram a speeding motorcycle with his car, I would not trust him not to shoot me like a dog. I might have bolted too.


I'd personally say it depends on what the issue is. If the guy just shot four people and is headed to go rape a little black baby, I'd feel a little different than I would if he was just driving while black, you know.

Sarcasm aside, there DOES come a point when potentially lethal force could be justified. This sure as hell ain't it.
 
2013-03-24 06:21:52 PM  
Good.
 
2013-03-24 06:24:07 PM  
They were NOT on the bike when they were run down...they were running away on foot. Makes it a bit different, I think.
 
2013-03-24 06:25:50 PM  

itsanillusionmichael: They were NOT on the bike when they were run down...they were running away on foot. Makes it a bit different, I think.


FTFA:   Gonzalez fled on foot and then jumped on the back of Fernandez's dirt bike, also unregistered. The officer chased them in his cruiser before slamming into the back of them.
 
2013-03-24 06:27:11 PM  

hardinparamedic: Dragonflew: If a cop is insane enough to ram a speeding motorcycle with his car, I would not trust him not to shoot me like a dog. I might have bolted too.

I'd personally say it depends on what the issue is. If the guy just shot four people and is headed to go rape a little black baby, I'd feel a little different than I would if he was just driving while black, you know.

Sarcasm aside, there DOES come a point when potentially lethal force could be justified. This sure as hell ain't it.


What is even worse: their original crime was riding without a helmet. A safety issue. What better way to stop them than to RAM THEM WITH A CRUISER?
 
2013-03-24 06:27:26 PM  

JeffreyScott: TuteTibiImperes: The first time the police cruiser hit the guy on the bike seems to be the cop's fault - he could have tried to pull him over without ramming the bike.  The second time after the guy runs and jumps on the back of the other bike is on two guys running away - if you get hurt/killed trying to flee the police that's on you.

Because being ran down and killed for a minor traffic violation is justice?  I hope you are trolling.


If the cop was purposefully trying to run them down and hurt/kill them that would be wrong, but if it was an accident, which is what the investigation found, yeah, it's the criminals fault.  They brought it upon themselves by running.

I don't see it as being any different from copper thieves electrocuting themselves trying to steal live wire or terrorists who blow themselves up trying to build a bomb.  If your own criminal actions and stupidity lead to your demise, you have no one to blame but yourself.
 
2013-03-24 06:28:01 PM  

JeffreyScott: TuteTibiImperes: The first time the police cruiser hit the guy on the bike seems to be the cop's fault - he could have tried to pull him over without ramming the bike.  The second time after the guy runs and jumps on the back of the other bike is on two guys running away - if you get hurt/killed trying to flee the police that's on you.

Because being ran down and killed for a minor traffic violation is justice?  I hope you are trolling.


No, it's suicide.

My neighbor went out this way. He was 15 or something ridiculously young and took his dirt bike out for a spin. A cop saw him on the road sans plates, license, and helmet, went to pull him over. He panics and tries to run, winds up wrapping himself neck first around a telephone pole at a nearby intersection.

These guys were operating an illegal vehicle in a dangerous manner and caused an accident evading police.

Watch the video. There's a small chance it was on purpose, but it looks like a classic Driver's Ed training video.
 
2013-03-24 06:29:16 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: If the cop was purposefully trying to run them down and hurt/kill them that would be wrong, but if it was an accident, which is what the investigation found, yeah, it's the criminals fault.


So you are saying that both times the cop rammed the dirtbikes were accidents?
 
2013-03-24 06:29:45 PM  
The police, as of yet, are not assigned judge, jury or executioner. They should do whatever it takes to bring the alleged perpetrator into custody and nothing more. If they cannot do that without risking human lives, they need to back off.
 
2013-03-24 06:30:06 PM  
 
2013-03-24 06:30:13 PM  
And nothing of value was lost that day...
 
2013-03-24 06:31:11 PM  

itsanillusionmichael: They were NOT on the bike when they were run down...they were running away on foot. Makes it a bit different, I think.


There's a video in the link.
 
2013-03-24 06:32:18 PM  
notfncute.com
 
2013-03-24 06:32:38 PM  

Dragonflew: TuteTibiImperes: If the cop was purposefully trying to run them down and hurt/kill them that would be wrong, but if it was an accident, which is what the investigation found, yeah, it's the criminals fault.

So you are saying that both times the cop rammed the dirtbikes were accidents?


No, the first time looked like it might have been intentional, which as I already said would be wrong.  The second time was the one that caused the problem though, and that was caused directly by the guy not just taking his ticket and deciding to run instead.
 
2013-03-24 06:33:03 PM  
F*ck the police
 
2013-03-24 06:35:47 PM  

Gifted Many Few: The police, as of yet, are not assigned judge, jury or executioner. They should do whatever it takes to bring the alleged perpetrator into custody and nothing more. If they cannot do that without risking human lives, they need to back off.


That's nice. And one day, we'll all worship a magical, winged unicorn and peace will be had throughout the land.

Now, in the real world, some people just want to take as many people with them as they burn out. Or they want to make a political or religious statement. At any rate, there's going to be bodies in some situations regardless.

Some people are not going to be taken alive. And leaving them that way will only cause more bodies. See, for example, active spree killers.

There will never come a day, unless humanity evolves to become a new social species, that lethal force will never be justified or warranted. In some situations, death is going to be the only outcome for one or more people no matter what is done.

That's not the case in this situation. But to blatantly say all shootings done in the line of duty are unwarranted and unnecessary is just as stupid as saying there's not an institutional problem with Law Enforcement discipline in the United States.
 
2013-03-24 06:36:38 PM  
I wouldn't pay $100, never mind a hundred million to see that.

/like 65, max.
 
2013-03-24 06:38:38 PM  

itsanillusionmichael: They were NOT on the bike when they were run down...they were running away on foot. Makes it a bit different, I think.


AH! Now, that's worth my hundred bucks to see!
 
2013-03-24 06:39:56 PM  

panfried: Crime? No tags or helmet, evading police. The cop didn't know why the kids where running, only that they where. Best to kill them, just in case.


While I think the result is a little harsh, the kids knew exactly why they were running: operating an illegal motor vehicle on city streets, no tags, no licenses, etc.

Dirt Bikes  (ie, offroad bikes not meant for highway operation), quads and mini-bikes are becoming a real menace in NE cities during warm weather.  They disregard all traffic signs and signals, and do whatever the hell they like, without much chance of getting caught.

It's really bad here in Philly, as the police commissioner issued a "no-chase" order a couple years ago; I've seen packs of kids, too young to have their licenses, riding though red lights in front of cops, who can do nothing about it.

It's one of these things that isn't going to become an issue that's dealt with until they kill a bunch of old people or a kid.
 
2013-03-24 06:41:07 PM  
Steve Reed, spokesman for Bronx DA Robert Johnson, said the office believes the crash was accidental. "Upon an extensive review of the evidence and circumstances of the incident, it was our determination that a sustainable criminal case could not be brought this was a cop they wanted us to charge for this incident, so instead of the murder and attempted murder charges anyone else would have been hit with we decided to just put him back on the street and hope he kills some more young brown people. It'll teach the rest of them their place," Reed said.

Fixed that for them.
 
2013-03-24 06:42:37 PM  
i13.photobucket.com

Bronx motorcycle safety gear: wife beater, shorts, cheap engineer boots, no helmet
 
2013-03-24 06:43:10 PM  
Just from that video, none of us knows what the cop car was doing before the crash or what the layout was. Other cars, obstacles, light poles, other streets.
 
2013-03-24 06:45:30 PM  

mongbiohazard: Steve Reed, spokesman for Bronx DA Robert Johnson, said the office believes the crash was accidental. "Upon an extensive review of the evidence and circumstances of the incident, it was our determination that a sustainable criminal case could not be brought this was a cop they wanted us to charge for this incident, so instead of the murder and attempted murder charges anyone else would have been hit with we decided to just put him back on the street and hope he kills some more young brown people. It'll teach the rest of them their place," Reed said.

Fixed that for them.


Did you see the video? They pull left as the cop's pulling right. They done goofed.
 
2013-03-24 06:47:01 PM  

veedeevadeevoodee: [i13.photobucket.com image 500x400]

Bronx motorcycle safety gear: wife beater, shorts, cheap engineer boots, no helmet


buzzkill.

Darwin needs these guys. They're his bread and butter in the War For Souls.
 
2013-03-24 06:48:17 PM  

Stephen_Falken: F*ck the police

silellak.com

 
2013-03-24 06:50:28 PM  
Lock both the cop and the kid in the same jail cell.
 
2013-03-24 06:52:22 PM  

hardinparamedic: Some people are not going to be taken alive. And leaving them that way will only cause more bodies. See, for example, active spree killers.


There are plenty of alternatives to lethal force. Killing someone is just an easy way out.
 
2013-03-24 06:53:34 PM  

Gifted Many Few: The police, as of yet, are not assigned judge, jury or executioner. They should do whatever it takes to bring the alleged perpetrator into custody and nothing more. If they cannot do that without risking human lives, they need to back off.


I always figure, 99.9% the time people flee cause they are, dumb, drunk, or have a douche warrant out for them. If they get away, 99.9 the time they keep a really low profile from then on, which is what you wanted in the first place. Meanwhile if you give serious chase, good chance someones going to die.

I had a friend speeding on his motorcycle and ran from the cops got away.  Three weeks later cop pulls him over and says, "I can prove it was you that run away from me three weeks ago, but was you, and then proceeded to tear him a new ausshole for ten minutes.
 
2013-03-24 06:55:35 PM  
So how is that nationwide LEO steroid addiction working out for you guys?
 
2013-03-24 06:56:08 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Dragonflew: TuteTibiImperes: If the cop was purposefully trying to run them down and hurt/kill them that would be wrong, but if it was an accident, which is what the investigation found, yeah, it's the criminals fault.

So you are saying that both times the cop rammed the dirtbikes were accidents?

No, the first time looked like it might have been intentional, which as I already said would be wrong.  The second time was the one that caused the problem though, and that was caused directly by the guy not just taking his ticket and deciding to run instead.


So you're riding your bike, and a cop comes up behind you and deliberately rams into you.  Clearly this guy, cop or not, is out to harm you.  I'd suspect a fair portion of the population would be afraid for their lives and choose to run.  It's a basic self-preservation instinct.   Obviously running from cops is a bad idea, but this one already tried to kill you over a minor traffic violation.  I can understand the mindset of someone trying to get away from that.

The officer triggered this situation by ramming a bike, and IMO that makes him responsible   The fact that he also rammed them a second time (purposefully or not), ultimately killing one and injuring the other, only makes the situation more clear.
 
2013-03-24 07:04:54 PM  

GizmoToy: So you're riding your bike


Uh, no.  You're illegally riding a non-street legal dirt bike on the street.  That seems to be the bit of the story most of you aren't getting.  This wasn't a "motorcyclist" in any commonly understood sense of the term.
 
2013-03-24 07:15:35 PM  

GizmoToy: The fact that he also rammed them a second time (purposefully or not), ultimately killing one and injuring the other, only makes the situation more clear.


What about the clarity of a man dying in a minor traffic collision? That's why you're supposed to wear safety gear and keep off the road on dirt bikes. The motocross guys slam into the ground at 90 mph, bounce twice, and get right back on the bike. Why? They choose their gear and track properly.
 
2013-03-24 07:16:37 PM  
I think the important thing is in a climate rife with billionaire pirates, thugs, dope gangs and people pushing old ladies down the stairs for their food stamp cards that this wannabe action movie star, steroid crazed douchebag got to murder somebody for riding the wrong kind of low power motorcycle on the street, and more importantly,  questioning his manhood.  And he'll get a week off with pay.  And we'll all say "hey, not my problem" and go back to bed.  See?  The republic is safe.
 
2013-03-24 07:25:03 PM  
It is said that in the south, "he needed killing" is still a viable defense in some jurisdictions.

So.. no tags on a dirt bike.

Did he need killing?

Well?
 
2013-03-24 07:25:27 PM  

bunner: I think the important thing is in a climate rife with billionaire pirates, thugs, dope gangs and people pushing old ladies down the stairs for their food stamp cards that this wannabe action movie star, steroid crazed douchebag got to murder somebody for riding the wrong kind of low power motorcycle on the street, and more importantly,  questioning his manhood.  And he'll get a week off with pay.   And we'll all say "hey, not my problem" and go back to bed.  See?  The republic is safe.


I enjoyed reading those words you strung together.  Nice.  But are you really saying this is indeed my problem or not?
/Really, I wanna know because if it's my problem I may have to fix something.
 
2013-03-24 07:26:53 PM  
Can someone please link the video that y'all are watching, where the 2 bike riders went on a 70 mph crime spree thru a Farmer's Market before being brought down by a 4'8" policewoman on rollerskates?

Because the video *I* just watched showed a 3000 lb car turn left on an *empty street* into a small motorcycle where driver and passenger weren't wearing helmets. No "accident", no "They were reckless and crashed into something, killing themselves in the process". If the police car had not turned into them, there is a good chance that no one would have been hurt. Looks like the policeman decided this chase was gonna stop right there, no matter what injuries they might sustain.

Did someone at least have the sense to plant some drugs or kiddee porn on the body before everyone else showed up?
 
2013-03-24 07:29:39 PM  

rkiller1: I enjoyed reading those words you strung together.  Nice.  But are you really saying this is indeed my problem or not?/Really, I wanna know because if it's my problem I may have to fix something.


Depends on how you define "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness."  If you define them as "If nothing bad happened to me, I live in paradise", then it's not your problem.  I'm pretty sure that wasn't what we had in mind when we nailed up a shingle for this country though, but so little is anymore.
 
2013-03-24 07:35:15 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: The first time the police cruiser hit the guy on the bike seems to be the cop's fault - he could have tried to pull him over without ramming the bike.  The second time after the guy runs and jumps on the back of the other bike is on two guys running away - if you get hurt/killed trying to flee the police that's on you.


So, after a cop deliberately tries to kill you for what amounts to nothing, your best course of action is to hang around and wait for him to finish the job?

Want to know why people doing nothing wrong run from cops?  Because the cops are out of control thugs.
 
2013-03-24 07:39:40 PM  

Rent Party: Because the cops are out of control thugs.


Thugs?  But they have guns!  And authority identifiers!  And they dress alike!  And a code of silence and, um...   :  /
 
2013-03-24 07:42:17 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Oh ffs. Did ANYONE watch the vid? The suspects drove the bike RIGHT OUT into traffic in front of the officer, who had 0 chance to slow down enough to not hit them. Nice try for the payoff for the scumbag lawyer though. Here is an idea, have a farking drivers license, register your vehicle, and if the cops are after you, a bad idea would be to pull suddenly in front of them trying to get away, and getting your stupid ass killed. Blaming the police for your retardation seems to be a common practice now days.


Yeah, it's hard to call that anything but an accident. Guy rides bike out into intersection, speeding cruiser comes around sharp left turn, bike and car intersect at the, er, intersection. Hard to tell from the quality of the video whether the car had its brakes on or not, although at those speeds I'm not sure it would have mattered. Nor am I sure if wearing a helmet would have helped the guys on the bike, given the crushing nature of the impact.

You know, it's entirely possible, even in a chase between cops and criminals, for there to be accidents. Both cops and criminals get tunnel vision when driving/escaping at high speeds and on narrow streets. I doubt that the cop driving had time enough to either miss OR hit the bike on purpose and probably just plowed into a bike he didn't expect to be there; and equally I doubt that the bikers pulled out thinking "hey, the cops will swerve around us!" OR even realized they were so close.

Sometimes there are accidents. It's shocking, I know, but not everything the police do is calculated to be evil.
 
2013-03-24 07:48:22 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Bit'O'Gristle: Oh ffs. Did ANYONE watch the vid? The suspects drove the bike RIGHT OUT into traffic in front of the officer, who had 0 chance to slow down enough to not hit them. Nice try for the payoff for the scumbag lawyer though. Here is an idea, have a farking drivers license, register your vehicle, and if the cops are after you, a bad idea would be to pull suddenly in front of them trying to get away, and getting your stupid ass killed. Blaming the police for your retardation seems to be a common practice now days.

Yeah, it's hard to call that anything but an accident. Guy rides bike out into intersection, speeding cruiser comes around sharp left turn, bike and car intersect at the, er, intersection. Hard to tell from the quality of the video whether the car had its brakes on or not, although at those speeds I'm not sure it would have mattered. Nor am I sure if wearing a helmet would have helped the guys on the bike, given the crushing nature of the impact.

You know, it's entirely possible, even in a chase between cops and criminals, for there to be accidents. Both cops and criminals get tunnel vision when driving/escaping at high speeds and on narrow streets. I doubt that the cop driving had time enough to either miss OR hit the bike on purpose and probably just plowed into a bike he didn't expect to be there; and equally I doubt that the bikers pulled out thinking "hey, the cops will swerve around us!" OR even realized they were so close.

Sometimes there are accidents. It's shocking, I know, but not everything the police do is calculated to be evil.


Please stop being reasonable, you're ruining the cop bashing for the ITG's.
 
2013-03-24 07:50:07 PM  

Gyrfalcon: t's shocking, I know, but not everything the police do is calculated to be evil.


Actually it sort of is shocking.  Almost as much as the fact that a lot of it is and we don't give a polly wolly doo dah f*ck about it.
 
2013-03-24 07:57:54 PM  
bunner:

Depends on how you define "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness."  If you define them as "If nothing bad happened to me, I live in paradise", then it's not your problem.  I'm pretty sure that wasn't what we had in mind when we nailed up a shingle for this country though, but so little is anymore.

I'll sleep a little sounder know Mr. Gonzalaz and Mr. Fernandez won't be committing any crimes in the near future if that helps. Maybe they were hard working legit guys, but I doubt it.
 
2013-03-24 08:02:02 PM  

BigRightRear: bunner:

Depends on how you define "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness."  If you define them as "If nothing bad happened to me, I live in paradise", then it's not your problem.  I'm pretty sure that wasn't what we had in mind when we nailed up a shingle for this country though, but so little is anymore.

I'll sleep a little sounder know Mr. Gonzalaz and Mr. Fernandez won't be committing any crimes in the near future if that helps. Maybe they were hard working legit guys, but I doubt it.


They were just on the cusp of discovering the cure for juvenile leukemia which would have been manufactured on their perpetual motion machine.
 
2013-03-24 08:02:22 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Sometimes there are accidents. It's shocking, I know, but not everything the police do is calculated to be evil.


This is true; the bulk of what they do is just out of stupidity, not malice.
 
2013-03-24 08:06:36 PM  
The cop clearly tries to ram him the first time, second time also looks intentional.
 
2013-03-24 08:06:52 PM  

BigRightRear:  Maybe they were hard working legit guys, but I doubt it.


Why's that?
 
2013-03-24 08:09:38 PM  

bunner: BigRightRear:  Maybe they were hard working legit guys, but I doubt it.

Why's that?


And, all that aside, are you saying that cops should circumvent due process, courts, trials and just kill motherfarkers who MAY be recidivist felons and sh*tstains because they got no plates a dirt bike?
 
2013-03-24 08:13:09 PM  

CheapEngineer: Can someone please link the video that y'all are watching, where the 2 bike riders went on a 70 mph crime spree thru a Farmer's Market before being brought down by a 4'8" policewoman on rollerskates?

Because the video *I* just watched showed a 3000 lb car turn left on an *empty street* into a small motorcycle where driver and passenger weren't wearing helmets. No "accident", no "They were reckless and crashed into something, killing themselves in the process". If the police car had not turned into them, there is a good chance that no one would have been hurt. Looks like the policeman decided this chase was gonna stop right there, no matter what injuries they might sustain.

Did someone at least have the sense to plant some drugs or kiddee porn on the body before everyone else showed up?


Whew! Glad I wasn't the only one to see that. With some of these other replies, I was beginning to think someone had snuck up and dosed me with LSD or something right before watching the vids.

Also, why was the cop going that fast? Ostensibly, the suspect  ran from the scene of the first incident, you know, like,  on foot. He can't have gotten that much of a lead on the cop. At that speed, if the dude hadn't jumped on the back of another bike and instead continued running, that cop would have just blown right past him.... what kind of sense does that make? Sorry, but I just do not see this as an accident at all.
 
2013-03-24 08:14:37 PM  
Prosecutors are always using cases to "set an example." If I'm ever a juror in a criminal case, my vote is 'not guilty' regardless of circumstances, just to set an example. Unless it's a cop on trial; then my vote is 'guilty' regardless of circumstances, just to set an example.
 
2013-03-24 08:22:24 PM  

bunner: BigRightRear:  Maybe they were hard working legit guys, but I doubt it.

Why's that?


Upstanding citizens don't run from the police.  I'm not saying everyone stopped by the police is guilty, but if you are stopped, just do as they ask, remain civil, and if it's anymore more than a traffic violation, don't speak until you have a lawyer present.  The system is what it is, if you work with it the results will be better for you 99.9% of the time than if you try to circumvent it.
 
2013-03-24 08:23:22 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: the bulk of what they do is just out of stupidity, not malice.


I find there to be no conceptual difference in this case. If it is stupidity, the cop shouldn't have been given a badge and pistol. Of course hindsight is 20/20, so at least he shouldn't be allowed to keep it, and if he is, whoever made the call is guilty of depraved indifference in my eyes. Incompetency should not be tolerated in job fields that involve saving people's lives, and even less so when your job provides you the authority to take lives without punishment.

People may argue that PDs are already understaffed, but they should consider that maybe if less LEOs were crooks and a-holes.... we might not  need as many. Like in Apocalypse Now: "What we need is fewer men, and better."
 
2013-03-24 08:24:37 PM  

DrPainMD: Prosecutors are always using cases to "set an example."


And what's hilarious is they apparently believe the criminal element, if they actually even care about prosecuting the criminal element, is actually reading the papers every morning to check on the latest docket results before they load their Glock and boogaloo off to the liquor store to make a withdrawal and sling some packets to the grade school kids.
 
2013-03-24 08:27:35 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: The system is what it is


That's sort of the problem.

TuteTibiImperes: if you work with it the results will be better for you 99.9% of the time than if you try to circumvent it

.

I think that sort of hinges on your net worth and who your uncle is.  That's also how the system works.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-03-24 08:28:38 PM  
Perhaps the silly-azz cops needs to be reacquainted with the following gear:
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com

/protip for dummy cops: these tend to outrun everything and don't involve hurting/killing nearly as often as other methods
 
2013-03-24 08:29:47 PM  

asynchron: Dwight_Yeast: the bulk of what they do is just out of stupidity, not malice.

I find there to be no conceptual difference in this case. If it is stupidity, the cop shouldn't have been given a badge and pistol. Of course hindsight is 20/20, so at least he shouldn't be allowed to keep it, and if he is, whoever made the call is guilty of depraved indifference in my eyes. Incompetency should not be tolerated in job fields that involve saving people's lives, and even less so when your job provides you the authority to take lives without punishment.

People may argue that PDs are already understaffed, but they should consider that maybe if less LEOs were crooks and a-holes.... we might not  need as many. Like in Apocalypse Now: "What we need is fewer men, and better."


Some departments actually give IQ tests and throw out the applicants who score too high.  It's a very boring and repetitive job and intelligent people don't generally last too long.  Just the nature of the job.  You're not going to get the best and the brightest.  I'm in the "they are just morons" camp as opposed to the "OMG THEY ARE ALL KKK NAZI'S ON STEROIDS" camp.
 
2013-03-24 08:34:43 PM  

asynchron: At that speed, if the dude hadn't jumped on the back of another bike and instead continued running, that cop would have just blown right past him....


If only there were some mechanism to decelerate a vehicle faster than by the mere friction of the axles. Why such a stupendous contraction would be so useful I reckon they'd install one in every motor vehicle.
 
2013-03-24 08:43:44 PM  

bunner: It is said that in the south, "he needed killing" is still a viable defense in some jurisdictions.

So.. no tags on a dirt bike.

Did he need killing?

Well?


It is known.  Yes, it is known.
 
2013-03-24 08:50:42 PM  

hardinparamedic: Lsherm: Not death, but really, there needs to be a medal for it.  What do these people think is going to happen?  They will escape?

Many jurisdictions have stopped doing chases now, especially on motorcycles, for the reason that it endangers the public. They'll follow them from the air, wait until they stop, and then move in. The exceptions to this are violent crime and if there is someone being held hostage, of course.

Of course, you are right. You can't outrun a radio, no matter what GTA taught you.


Yet the police always claim they need V8 power for pursuit.
 
2013-03-24 08:51:50 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: If the cop was purposefully trying to run them down and hurt/kill them that would be wrong, but if it was an accident, which is what the investigation found, yeah, it's the criminals fault. They brought it upon themselves by running.


We don't allow that because it leaves the door wide open for scumbag cops to apply street justice and then claim the person was running away.
 
2013-03-24 08:54:55 PM  

pedrop357: TuteTibiImperes: If the cop was purposefully trying to run them down and hurt/kill them that would be wrong, but if it was an accident, which is what the investigation found, yeah, it's the criminals fault. They brought it upon themselves by running.

We don't allow that because it leaves the door wide open for scumbag cops to apply street justice and then claim the person was running away.


We don't?  Criminals die all the time running from the police and it's "allowed."
 
2013-03-24 08:55:14 PM  

bunner: It is said that in the south, "he needed killing" is still a viable defense in some jurisdictions.

So.. no tags on a dirt bike.

Did he need killing?

Well?


In the South... the deputies are smart enough to know that idiots driving a dirt bike without tags in a reckless manner will eventually kill themselves ..... without any need for police intervention. Just bide your time and wait.
 
2013-03-24 09:04:05 PM  

bunner: So how is that nationwide LEO steroid addiction working out for you guys?


LOL!
 
2013-03-24 09:13:17 PM  

bunner: So.. no tags on a dirt bike.

Did he need killing?



cdn.hark.com

/ should have cleared on out the back
 
2013-03-24 09:20:30 PM  

asynchron: Dwight_Yeast: the bulk of what they do is just out of stupidity, not malice.

I find there to be no conceptual difference in this case. If it is stupidity, the cop shouldn't have been given a badge and pistol. Of course hindsight is 20/20, so at least he shouldn't be allowed to keep it, and if he is, whoever made the call is guilty of depraved indifference in my eyes. Incompetency should not be tolerated in job fields that involve saving people's lives, and even less so when your job provides you the authority to take lives without punishment.

People may argue that PDs are already understaffed, but they should consider that maybe if less LEOs were crooks and a-holes.... we might not  need as many. Like in Apocalypse Now: "What we need is fewer men, and better."


Yeah, but those of us who think so are in the minority. A big part of the problem in large police departments like NYPD (we have the same issue here on the Left Coast) is that they've had to lower their hiring standards over the last few decades, in part because of legal pressures, and in part because of the paranoid masses who insist that we MUST have MOAR COPZ! to protect us from all the criminals out there who want to rape murder and eat us. Not better trained cops, or better police presence, or more scientifically applied--just MOAR!!

So they hire a hundred more, because the citizens want more, and that means hiring the top 100 applicants who can pass all the tests AND lowering the standards because they don't want to be unfair to anyone who can't quite read or can't quite pass a background check (because he was a gangbanger when he was a kid and he's left all that behind him now) or can't quite pass the physical exam.

Then stuff like this happens, because the officer maybe isn't as smart or fast or foresighted as he should be--and then people start screeching about wanting smarter, better cops. Well, you can't have both good, smart, well-trained officers AND lots of them. Pick which would be better.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-03-24 09:26:12 PM  

Stephen_Falken: F*ck the police


encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2013-03-24 09:34:25 PM  

pedrop357: hardinparamedic: Lsherm: Not death, but really, there needs to be a medal for it.  What do these people think is going to happen?  They will escape?

Many jurisdictions have stopped doing chases now, especially on motorcycles, for the reason that it endangers the public. They'll follow them from the air, wait until they stop, and then move in. The exceptions to this are violent crime and if there is someone being held hostage, of course.

Of course, you are right. You can't outrun a radio, no matter what GTA taught you.

Yet the police always claim they need V8 power for pursuit.


In all fairness, our local cops are transferring to the Taurus with a V6 as part of their replacement program.  They looked at the Dodge Charger, but AWD and better mileage looked like a better option.
 
2013-03-24 09:43:38 PM  

Gyrfalcon: So they hire a hundred more, because the citizens want more, and that means hiring the top 100 applicants who can pass all the tests AND lowering the standards because they don't want to be unfair to anyone who can't quite read or can't quite pass a background check (because he was a gangbanger when he was a kid and he's left all that behind him now) or can't quite pass the physical exam.


No, they don't.  Police departments actively try to hire stupid people, because smart people will get bored.   Not only that, but it was upheld as a valid policy in court.
 
2013-03-24 09:56:43 PM  
Having been privy to a broad scope of aggregated MMPPI scores that are given to LEOs, EMTs and recidivist criminals, I have learned that cops and criminals are basically the same people, save for one basic difference.  Cops are smarter.  Not a *lot*, but a definite come up on the IQ portion.  So, essentially, cops and criminals see the world through the same screen door, cops are just smart enough to be on the other side of the equation.  Keep that in mind when getting yanked over at 2:00 A.M. for aggravated window shopping.
 
2013-03-24 10:06:16 PM  
Dirt bike (motorcycles) are illegal on city streets. The reason why they are popular with the "poorer element" is because they're impossible to catch. They were fleeing, and had the officer not rammed them they would not have stopped. Plenty of videos on youtube of dirt bike / ATV "gangs" in cities like Baltimore if you're wondering what kind of a menace these bikes can be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAMB8bsZCzQ

No sympathy for the parent. You knew what your child was doing with the bike.
 
2013-03-24 11:00:49 PM  

asynchron: People may argue that PDs are already understaffed, but they should consider that maybe if less LEOs were crooks and a-holes.... we might not need as many. Like in Apocalypse Now: "What we need is fewer men, and better."


That's really my view on it.  If cops were smarter and less corrupt, they could actually prevent crime, rather than simply making a half-assed mess of trying to catch criminals after the fact.
 
2013-03-24 11:01:22 PM  
$100 million

It's a start.

Every individual police officer should as a prerequisite of employment be required provide proof of self-funded Professional Liability Insurance, just like any plumber, maid, building contractor, mover, or accountant does, and damages from their negligence or misconduct must be paid by their insurer - not the citizens who pay their salaries, guarantee their pensions, and receive without recourse their constant and ever-escalating abuse of authority..

Win-win:
- Bad cops' rates drive their fat, sociopathic, felonious leeching asses out of a job and back into the underworld where they belong.
- Insurance companies apply the pre$$ure police officials, municipal executives, and union zealots refuse to apply to their thug only-in-name subordinates.
 
2013-03-24 11:05:34 PM  
Is that like reverse cop math, where 1 oz of marijuana is worth $250,000?
 
2013-03-24 11:21:32 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Sometimes there are accidents. It's shocking, I know, but not everything the police do is calculated to be evil.



BURN THE WITCH!
 
2013-03-24 11:34:18 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: .... but if it was an accident, which is what the investigation found, yeah, it's the criminals fault.  They brought it upon themselves by running.


Traffic violations such as driving without registration, or riding without a helmet are infractions.  Not felonies (criminal), not even misdemeanors.

It's like getting rammed because your tags are expired.
 
2013-03-25 12:47:02 AM  

SirHolo: TuteTibiImperes: .... but if it was an accident, which is what the investigation found, yeah, it's the criminals fault.  They brought it upon themselves by running.

Traffic violations such as driving without registration, or riding without a helmet are infractions.  Not felonies (criminal), not even misdemeanors.

It's like getting rammed because your tags are expired.


To be fair, it's like getting rammed because you ran when getting pulled over for expired tags.  All the guy had to do was take his ticket on the initial stop and none of this would have happened.
 
2013-03-25 12:54:32 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: SirHolo: TuteTibiImperes: .... but if it was an accident, which is what the investigation found, yeah, it's the criminals fault.  They brought it upon themselves by running.

Traffic violations such as driving without registration, or riding without a helmet are infractions.  Not felonies (criminal), not even misdemeanors.

It's like getting rammed because your tags are expired.

To be fair, it's like getting rammed because you ran when getting pulled over for expired tags.  All the guy had to do was take his ticket on the initial stop and none of this would have happened.



Hell hath no fury like a piggy scorned.


/Words to live by
 
2013-03-25 01:22:36 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: SirHolo: TuteTibiImperes: .... but if it was an accident, which is what the investigation found, yeah, it's the criminals fault.  They brought it upon themselves by running.

Traffic violations such as driving without registration, or riding without a helmet are infractions.  Not felonies (criminal), not even misdemeanors.

It's like getting rammed because your tags are expired.

To be fair, it's like getting rammed because you ran when getting pulled over for expired tags.  All the guy had to do was take his ticket on the initial stop and none of this would have happened.


The "initial stop" involved the cop swerving to ram Gonzalez as he was sitting still on the bike, knocking him off it.  If I was him, I would not assume that just a ticket was forthcoming.
 
2013-03-25 02:29:13 AM  

JeffreyScott: Because being ran down and killed for a minor traffic violation is justice?  I hope you are trolling.


Why does everyone keep saying this? Fleeing and evading police is not a minor traffic violation.  Its a felony... and usually people run from the cops because they dont want to go to jail for things unrelated to a traffic violation.
 
2013-03-25 08:26:38 AM  

Alonjar: Why does everyone keep saying this? Fleeing and evading police is not a minor traffic violation. Its a felony...


FTFA: "Gonzalez was allegedly riding a dirt bike with no license plate and no helmet when Officer McClain spotted him and swerved towards his bike. Knocked onto the sidewalk, Gonzalez fled on foot and then jumped on the back of Fernandez's dirt bike, also unregistered. The officer chased them in his cruiser before slamming into the back of them."

The cop ran into Gonzalez first. THEN Gonzalez started running. At the time the cop ran into him, he had done nothing but 'ride a dirt bike with no license plate and no helmet', which is indeed "a minor traffic violation".
 
2013-03-25 02:24:51 PM  
The cop needs shot in the head. Period.
 
2013-03-25 07:11:33 PM  

neversummer: The cop needs shot in the head. Period.


Ooooh, one last internet tough guy!
 
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