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(Opposing Views)   It's hard to attach a dollar amount to a police car ramming into two guys on a dirt bike, unless you're a lawyer. Spoiler: It's $100 million   (opposingviews.com) divider line 101
    More: Misc, Caught on Camera, PIT maneuver, Steve McClain, Hunts Point  
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7692 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Mar 2013 at 5:58 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-24 02:03:47 PM  
After the cruiser body slammed those guys, fellow cops moved in for the pre-requisite beatdown, but found they could do no further harm to the two piles of mangled flesh.  good one lived, but this civil action will go nowhere in his favor. I hope he learned not to ride with no license/helmet again.
 
2013-03-24 02:11:40 PM  
The first time the police cruiser hit the guy on the bike seems to be the cop's fault - he could have tried to pull him over without ramming the bike.  The second time after the guy runs and jumps on the back of the other bike is on two guys running away - if you get hurt/killed trying to flee the police that's on you.
 
2013-03-24 02:53:23 PM  
Could have just as easily cut them off, then the slow momentum of the bike would have stopped them with little to no harm. But I guess you're right, if you run from police, you deserve to die.
 
2013-03-24 02:58:28 PM  
That cop had to be going at least 50 when he hit those two on the dirtbike.

TuteTibiImperes: The first time the police cruiser hit the guy on the bike seems to be the cop's fault - he could have tried to pull him over without ramming the bike.  The second time after the guy runs and jumps on the back of the other bike is on two guys running away - if you get hurt/killed trying to flee the police that's on you.


The cop isn't Judge farking Dredd.  He doesn't get to decide who dies because of a couple of stupid kids on a goddamn dirtbike.
 
2013-03-24 03:03:05 PM  

panfried: Could have just as easily cut them off, then the slow momentum of the bike would have stopped them with little to no harm. But I guess you're right, if you run from police, you deserve to die.


I never said that, but the guy running escalated the situation.  If he had just stayed put in the first place all he would have had to deal with would have been a ticket for no tags/registration and improper equipment. He decided to try to run, which is what put him in the position to be injured or worse.

The police officer says he wasn't trying to ram them, that he just lost control.  Seeing as he did run into the first guy first though, that might be a stretch.  The survivor in the crash should be on the hook for his friends death (as it occurred during his commission of a crime) and the police officer probably needs some driving lessons and anger management classes.
 
2013-03-24 03:29:51 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: panfried: Could have just as easily cut them off, then the slow momentum of the bike would have stopped them with little to no harm. But I guess you're right, if you run from police, you deserve to die.

I never said that, but the guy running escalated the situation.  If he had just stayed put in the first place all he would have had to deal with would have been a ticket for no tags/registration and improper equipment. He decided to try to run, which is what put him in the position to be injured or worse.

The police officer says he wasn't trying to ram them, that he just lost control.  Seeing as he did run into the first guy first though, that might be a stretch.  The survivor in the crash should be on the hook for his friends death (as it occurred during his commission of a crime) and the police officer probably needs some driving lessons and anger management classes.


Crime?  No tags or helmet, evading police.  The cop didn't know why the kids where running, only that they where.  Best to kill them, just in case.
 
2013-03-24 03:35:56 PM  
panfried:Crime?  No tags or helmet, evading police.  The cop didn't know why the kids where running, only that they where.  Best to kill them, just in case.

i2.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-24 03:38:24 PM  

BunkyBrewman: The cop isn't Judge farking Dredd.  He doesn't get to decide who dies because of a couple of stupid kids on a goddamn dirtbike.


panfried: Crime? No tags or helmet, evading police. The cop didn't know why the kids where running, only that they where. Best to kill them, just in case.


FTA: Eddie Fernandez, 28, died in the Aug. 11 collision. Adalberto Gonzalez, 27, was injured and arrested.
 
2013-03-24 03:58:13 PM  
The penalty for jaywalking is death. The penalty will ALWAYS be death.

That's not the law of man. That's the laws of physics and biology. Jaywalking tickets are there to remind you that we humans care about one another.

These guys were on a dirt bike without helmets. The penalty is also extrajudicialy death and will remain thus until the sons of krypton come and give the power to withstand a high speed impact with the ground.
 
2013-03-24 04:00:15 PM  

Dogberry: BunkyBrewman: The cop isn't Judge farking Dredd.  He doesn't get to decide who dies because of a couple of stupid kids on a goddamn dirtbike.

panfried: Crime? No tags or helmet, evading police. The cop didn't know why the kids where running, only that they where. Best to kill them, just in case.

FTA: Eddie Fernandez, 28, died in the Aug. 11 collision. Adalberto Gonzalez, 27, was injured and arrested.


Adjusts onion.  Get off my lawn!
 
2013-03-24 06:04:46 PM  
Oh ffs. Did ANYONE watch the vid? The suspects drove the bike RIGHT OUT into traffic in front of the officer, who had 0 chance to slow down enough to not hit them. Nice try for the payoff for the scumbag lawyer though. Here is an idea, have a farking drivers license, register your vehicle, and if the cops are after you, a bad idea would be to pull suddenly in front of them trying to get away, and getting your stupid ass killed. Blaming the police for your retardation seems to be a common practice now days.
 
2013-03-24 06:05:36 PM  

vudutek: No tags or helmet, evading police.


Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it.
 
2013-03-24 06:08:14 PM  
It wuz uh accident.

Case closed.
 
2013-03-24 06:08:46 PM  
Here is today's lesson: Don't run from the law.
 
2013-03-24 06:08:46 PM  
If these guys were part of the crew that I see flying up 1st ave every now and again, I am not surprised.  Twice now I have seen them.  It is a swarm of about 30-40 dirtbikes and tricked-out quads heading up toward harlem.  They zip in and out of traffic popping wheelies, running red lights, and jumping up on sidewalks.  It looks suicidal (and fun as hell) but I have yet to see one smeared under the M-15 yet.
 
2013-03-24 06:09:54 PM  

panfried: But I guess you're right, if you run from police, you deserve to die.


Not death, but really, there needs to be a medal for it.  What do these people think is going to happen?  They will escape?
 
2013-03-24 06:17:11 PM  

Lsherm: Not death, but really, there needs to be a medal for it.  What do these people think is going to happen?  They will escape?


Many jurisdictions have stopped doing chases now, especially on motorcycles, for the reason that it endangers the public. They'll follow them from the air, wait until they stop, and then move in. The exceptions to this are violent crime and if there is someone being held hostage, of course.

Of course, you are right. You can't outrun a radio, no matter what GTA taught you.
 
2013-03-24 06:17:28 PM  

panfried: Could have just as easily cut them off, then the slow momentum of the bike would have stopped them with little to no harm. But I guess you're right, if you run from police, you deserve to die.


If a cop is insane enough to ram a speeding motorcycle with his car, I would not trust him not to shoot me like a dog. I might have bolted too.
 
2013-03-24 06:18:22 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: The first time the police cruiser hit the guy on the bike seems to be the cop's fault - he could have tried to pull him over without ramming the bike.  The second time after the guy runs and jumps on the back of the other bike is on two guys running away - if you get hurt/killed trying to flee the police that's on you.


Because being ran down and killed for a minor traffic violation is justice?  I hope you are trolling.
 
2013-03-24 06:21:20 PM  

Dragonflew: If a cop is insane enough to ram a speeding motorcycle with his car, I would not trust him not to shoot me like a dog. I might have bolted too.


I'd personally say it depends on what the issue is. If the guy just shot four people and is headed to go rape a little black baby, I'd feel a little different than I would if he was just driving while black, you know.

Sarcasm aside, there DOES come a point when potentially lethal force could be justified. This sure as hell ain't it.
 
2013-03-24 06:21:52 PM  
Good.
 
2013-03-24 06:24:07 PM  
They were NOT on the bike when they were run down...they were running away on foot. Makes it a bit different, I think.
 
2013-03-24 06:25:50 PM  

itsanillusionmichael: They were NOT on the bike when they were run down...they were running away on foot. Makes it a bit different, I think.


FTFA:   Gonzalez fled on foot and then jumped on the back of Fernandez's dirt bike, also unregistered. The officer chased them in his cruiser before slamming into the back of them.
 
2013-03-24 06:27:11 PM  

hardinparamedic: Dragonflew: If a cop is insane enough to ram a speeding motorcycle with his car, I would not trust him not to shoot me like a dog. I might have bolted too.

I'd personally say it depends on what the issue is. If the guy just shot four people and is headed to go rape a little black baby, I'd feel a little different than I would if he was just driving while black, you know.

Sarcasm aside, there DOES come a point when potentially lethal force could be justified. This sure as hell ain't it.


What is even worse: their original crime was riding without a helmet. A safety issue. What better way to stop them than to RAM THEM WITH A CRUISER?
 
2013-03-24 06:27:26 PM  

JeffreyScott: TuteTibiImperes: The first time the police cruiser hit the guy on the bike seems to be the cop's fault - he could have tried to pull him over without ramming the bike.  The second time after the guy runs and jumps on the back of the other bike is on two guys running away - if you get hurt/killed trying to flee the police that's on you.

Because being ran down and killed for a minor traffic violation is justice?  I hope you are trolling.


If the cop was purposefully trying to run them down and hurt/kill them that would be wrong, but if it was an accident, which is what the investigation found, yeah, it's the criminals fault.  They brought it upon themselves by running.

I don't see it as being any different from copper thieves electrocuting themselves trying to steal live wire or terrorists who blow themselves up trying to build a bomb.  If your own criminal actions and stupidity lead to your demise, you have no one to blame but yourself.
 
2013-03-24 06:28:01 PM  

JeffreyScott: TuteTibiImperes: The first time the police cruiser hit the guy on the bike seems to be the cop's fault - he could have tried to pull him over without ramming the bike.  The second time after the guy runs and jumps on the back of the other bike is on two guys running away - if you get hurt/killed trying to flee the police that's on you.

Because being ran down and killed for a minor traffic violation is justice?  I hope you are trolling.


No, it's suicide.

My neighbor went out this way. He was 15 or something ridiculously young and took his dirt bike out for a spin. A cop saw him on the road sans plates, license, and helmet, went to pull him over. He panics and tries to run, winds up wrapping himself neck first around a telephone pole at a nearby intersection.

These guys were operating an illegal vehicle in a dangerous manner and caused an accident evading police.

Watch the video. There's a small chance it was on purpose, but it looks like a classic Driver's Ed training video.
 
2013-03-24 06:29:16 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: If the cop was purposefully trying to run them down and hurt/kill them that would be wrong, but if it was an accident, which is what the investigation found, yeah, it's the criminals fault.


So you are saying that both times the cop rammed the dirtbikes were accidents?
 
2013-03-24 06:29:45 PM  
The police, as of yet, are not assigned judge, jury or executioner. They should do whatever it takes to bring the alleged perpetrator into custody and nothing more. If they cannot do that without risking human lives, they need to back off.
 
2013-03-24 06:30:06 PM  
 
2013-03-24 06:30:13 PM  
And nothing of value was lost that day...
 
2013-03-24 06:31:11 PM  

itsanillusionmichael: They were NOT on the bike when they were run down...they were running away on foot. Makes it a bit different, I think.


There's a video in the link.
 
2013-03-24 06:32:18 PM  
notfncute.com
 
2013-03-24 06:32:38 PM  

Dragonflew: TuteTibiImperes: If the cop was purposefully trying to run them down and hurt/kill them that would be wrong, but if it was an accident, which is what the investigation found, yeah, it's the criminals fault.

So you are saying that both times the cop rammed the dirtbikes were accidents?


No, the first time looked like it might have been intentional, which as I already said would be wrong.  The second time was the one that caused the problem though, and that was caused directly by the guy not just taking his ticket and deciding to run instead.
 
2013-03-24 06:33:03 PM  
F*ck the police
 
2013-03-24 06:35:47 PM  

Gifted Many Few: The police, as of yet, are not assigned judge, jury or executioner. They should do whatever it takes to bring the alleged perpetrator into custody and nothing more. If they cannot do that without risking human lives, they need to back off.


That's nice. And one day, we'll all worship a magical, winged unicorn and peace will be had throughout the land.

Now, in the real world, some people just want to take as many people with them as they burn out. Or they want to make a political or religious statement. At any rate, there's going to be bodies in some situations regardless.

Some people are not going to be taken alive. And leaving them that way will only cause more bodies. See, for example, active spree killers.

There will never come a day, unless humanity evolves to become a new social species, that lethal force will never be justified or warranted. In some situations, death is going to be the only outcome for one or more people no matter what is done.

That's not the case in this situation. But to blatantly say all shootings done in the line of duty are unwarranted and unnecessary is just as stupid as saying there's not an institutional problem with Law Enforcement discipline in the United States.
 
2013-03-24 06:36:38 PM  
I wouldn't pay $100, never mind a hundred million to see that.

/like 65, max.
 
2013-03-24 06:38:38 PM  

itsanillusionmichael: They were NOT on the bike when they were run down...they were running away on foot. Makes it a bit different, I think.


AH! Now, that's worth my hundred bucks to see!
 
2013-03-24 06:39:56 PM  

panfried: Crime? No tags or helmet, evading police. The cop didn't know why the kids where running, only that they where. Best to kill them, just in case.


While I think the result is a little harsh, the kids knew exactly why they were running: operating an illegal motor vehicle on city streets, no tags, no licenses, etc.

Dirt Bikes  (ie, offroad bikes not meant for highway operation), quads and mini-bikes are becoming a real menace in NE cities during warm weather.  They disregard all traffic signs and signals, and do whatever the hell they like, without much chance of getting caught.

It's really bad here in Philly, as the police commissioner issued a "no-chase" order a couple years ago; I've seen packs of kids, too young to have their licenses, riding though red lights in front of cops, who can do nothing about it.

It's one of these things that isn't going to become an issue that's dealt with until they kill a bunch of old people or a kid.
 
2013-03-24 06:41:07 PM  
Steve Reed, spokesman for Bronx DA Robert Johnson, said the office believes the crash was accidental. "Upon an extensive review of the evidence and circumstances of the incident, it was our determination that a sustainable criminal case could not be brought this was a cop they wanted us to charge for this incident, so instead of the murder and attempted murder charges anyone else would have been hit with we decided to just put him back on the street and hope he kills some more young brown people. It'll teach the rest of them their place," Reed said.

Fixed that for them.
 
2013-03-24 06:42:37 PM  
i13.photobucket.com

Bronx motorcycle safety gear: wife beater, shorts, cheap engineer boots, no helmet
 
2013-03-24 06:43:10 PM  
Just from that video, none of us knows what the cop car was doing before the crash or what the layout was. Other cars, obstacles, light poles, other streets.
 
2013-03-24 06:45:30 PM  

mongbiohazard: Steve Reed, spokesman for Bronx DA Robert Johnson, said the office believes the crash was accidental. "Upon an extensive review of the evidence and circumstances of the incident, it was our determination that a sustainable criminal case could not be brought this was a cop they wanted us to charge for this incident, so instead of the murder and attempted murder charges anyone else would have been hit with we decided to just put him back on the street and hope he kills some more young brown people. It'll teach the rest of them their place," Reed said.

Fixed that for them.


Did you see the video? They pull left as the cop's pulling right. They done goofed.
 
2013-03-24 06:47:01 PM  

veedeevadeevoodee: [i13.photobucket.com image 500x400]

Bronx motorcycle safety gear: wife beater, shorts, cheap engineer boots, no helmet


buzzkill.

Darwin needs these guys. They're his bread and butter in the War For Souls.
 
2013-03-24 06:48:17 PM  

Stephen_Falken: F*ck the police

silellak.com

 
2013-03-24 06:50:28 PM  
Lock both the cop and the kid in the same jail cell.
 
2013-03-24 06:52:22 PM  

hardinparamedic: Some people are not going to be taken alive. And leaving them that way will only cause more bodies. See, for example, active spree killers.


There are plenty of alternatives to lethal force. Killing someone is just an easy way out.
 
2013-03-24 06:53:34 PM  

Gifted Many Few: The police, as of yet, are not assigned judge, jury or executioner. They should do whatever it takes to bring the alleged perpetrator into custody and nothing more. If they cannot do that without risking human lives, they need to back off.


I always figure, 99.9% the time people flee cause they are, dumb, drunk, or have a douche warrant out for them. If they get away, 99.9 the time they keep a really low profile from then on, which is what you wanted in the first place. Meanwhile if you give serious chase, good chance someones going to die.

I had a friend speeding on his motorcycle and ran from the cops got away.  Three weeks later cop pulls him over and says, "I can prove it was you that run away from me three weeks ago, but was you, and then proceeded to tear him a new ausshole for ten minutes.
 
2013-03-24 06:55:35 PM  
So how is that nationwide LEO steroid addiction working out for you guys?
 
2013-03-24 06:56:08 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Dragonflew: TuteTibiImperes: If the cop was purposefully trying to run them down and hurt/kill them that would be wrong, but if it was an accident, which is what the investigation found, yeah, it's the criminals fault.

So you are saying that both times the cop rammed the dirtbikes were accidents?

No, the first time looked like it might have been intentional, which as I already said would be wrong.  The second time was the one that caused the problem though, and that was caused directly by the guy not just taking his ticket and deciding to run instead.


So you're riding your bike, and a cop comes up behind you and deliberately rams into you.  Clearly this guy, cop or not, is out to harm you.  I'd suspect a fair portion of the population would be afraid for their lives and choose to run.  It's a basic self-preservation instinct.   Obviously running from cops is a bad idea, but this one already tried to kill you over a minor traffic violation.  I can understand the mindset of someone trying to get away from that.

The officer triggered this situation by ramming a bike, and IMO that makes him responsible   The fact that he also rammed them a second time (purposefully or not), ultimately killing one and injuring the other, only makes the situation more clear.
 
2013-03-24 07:04:54 PM  

GizmoToy: So you're riding your bike


Uh, no.  You're illegally riding a non-street legal dirt bike on the street.  That seems to be the bit of the story most of you aren't getting.  This wasn't a "motorcyclist" in any commonly understood sense of the term.
 
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