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(Rolling Stone)   Rolling Stone has compiled the "definitive" list of the 100 best debut albums of all time, and the top ten albums alone is all the evidence anyone needs to see the magazine has lost all touch with reality   (rollingstone.com) divider line 264
    More: Fail, Rolling Stones, magazines, evidence  
•       •       •

9484 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 24 Mar 2013 at 4:27 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-25 02:34:06 AM  

kasmel: Asserting culture for hip-hop is seriously farking ridiculous.


MCing, DJing, graffitti art, and breakdancing. That is the hip hop culture, it's been around since the late 70s. Rock has a culture too, but it's not as defined as hip-hop. Believe it or not, but that's the truth.
 
2013-03-25 02:34:14 AM  

TheJoe03: Bongo Blue: what is a beat?

A hip-hop instrumental. Originally derived from the break beats found in 70s records.


gimme something I can hear on youtube.
Don't link,I'm on a cell.
 
2013-03-25 02:36:55 AM  

Bongo Blue: gimme something I can hear on youtube.
Don't link,I'm on a cell.


You just want instrumentals?
 
2013-03-25 02:39:49 AM  

TheJoe03: Bongo Blue: gimme something I can hear on youtube.
Don't link,I'm on a cell.

You just want instrumentals?


anything that helps me understand the beat.
 
2013-03-25 02:39:59 AM  

kasmel: TheJoe03: Lorelle: Rap isn't progressive; if anything, it's regressive. Ever watch Toot, Whistle, Plunk and Boom? The cavemen were light years ahead of rappers.

You have almost have no knowledge of the genre or who is considered talented within it, so your opinion of it is pretty irrelevant. It is basically the last real innovation in music in the last 30 years. The instrumental aspect of it has had a massive influence on production and has always had a more futuristic vibe than rock has had in the last 30. Rapping is now considered a legit vocal form, and rapping at its finest is harder to write than any rock song. You wouldn't know that because you don't know shiat about hip hop culture because you are old, ignorant, and out of touch.

Normally I would stay out of this argument because I don't have that strong an opinion either way. That, regardless of how atonal and absurd many things some people miscategorize as 'music'But this, "you don't know shiat about hip hop culture ". Really? You're seriously going to try to assertculturenow? Are you farking kidding me? Is a cultural rite of passage piercing your ear drums?

 Asserting culture for hip-hop is seriously farking ridiculous. That's like calling the latest stupid teen craze culture. Hip-hop music is no more culture than snap bracelets or tamagotchi. They can congratulate each other and give each other awards and accolades for puking to autotune and synth drums all they want and I could really care less. I don't have to listen to it so I really don't care if anyone else does or whether or not they enjoy it.

You could call it a literary movement or artistic tradition even, that at least has SOME accuracy. You could say that hip-hop is like Dada, although pretty sure punk already fits that description.

/So I guess that makes Rap the new beatniks?
//Rhyming and sounding stupid to everyone who's not stoned?
///slashies for mostly joking about the beatnik part



cul·ture  (kn.
1. a. The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought.b. These patterns, traits, and products considered as the expression of a particular period, class, community, or population: Edwardian culture; Japanese culture; the culture of poverty.c. These patterns, traits, and products considered with respect to a particular category, such as a field, subject, or mode of expression: religious culture in the Middle Ages; musical culture; oral culture.d. The predominating attitudes and behavior that characterize the functioning of a group or organization.
 
2013-03-25 02:44:28 AM  

John Buck 41: knight_on_the_rail: John Buck 41: mcmnky: L.D. Ablo: Lorelle: Subby is correct. Hendrix should have been #1, and the rap shiat doesn't even belong on the list.

Well, yes.

I might take rap seriously if they started writing their own hooks and playing instruments.

Like Frank Sinatra wrote his own hooks and played instruments?  or Billie Holiday?  or Whitney Houston?

I suppose you don't take them seriously either.

They could actually, y'know....sing. And quite well.

F*ck rap and hip/hop.

Oh, it's this guy again...

Fark has an ignore option. Feel free to to utilize it.

/Or not. I don't care if some anonymous rap lover reads my posts or not.
//Cheers


You sure told him!
 
2013-03-25 02:45:41 AM  

kasmel: TheJoe03: Lorelle: Rap isn't progressive; if anything, it's regressive. Ever watch Toot, Whistle, Plunk and Boom? The cavemen were light years ahead of rappers.

You have almost have no knowledge of the genre or who is considered talented within it, so your opinion of it is pretty irrelevant. It is basically the last real innovation in music in the last 30 years. The instrumental aspect of it has had a massive influence on production and has always had a more futuristic vibe than rock has had in the last 30. Rapping is now considered a legit vocal form, and rapping at its finest is harder to write than any rock song. You wouldn't know that because you don't know shiat about hip hop culture because you are old, ignorant, and out of touch.

Normally I would stay out of this argument because I don't have that strong an opinion either way. That, regardless of how atonal and absurd many things some people miscategorize as 'music'But this, "you don't know shiat about hip hop culture ". Really? You're seriously going to try to assertculturenow? Are you farking kidding me? Is a cultural rite of passage piercing your ear drums?

 Asserting culture for hip-hop is seriously farking ridiculous. That's like calling the latest stupid teen craze culture. Hip-hop music is no more culture than snap bracelets or tamagotchi. They can congratulate each other and give each other awards and accolades for puking to autotune and synth drums all they want and I could really care less. I don't have to listen to it so I really don't care if anyone else does or whether or not they enjoy it.

You could call it a literary movement or artistic tradition even, that at least has SOME accuracy. You could say that hip-hop is like Dada, although pretty sure punk already fits that description.

/So I guess that makes Rap the new beatniks?
//Rhyming and sounding stupid to everyone who's not stoned?
///slashies for mostly joking about the beatnik part



You, sir, are an asshat for thinking hip-hop culture is limited to the music. Once again, could we educate ourselves before we say such idiotic things? I'm glad that something thats been around 30+ years is now comparable to a Tamagotchi...
 
2013-03-25 02:46:34 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Wait a minute, crappy rap in the top 20, but no Meatloaf?

Why did they even bother?


I checked - Bat Out of Hell wasn't his debut album so I can let that slide.  The rest of the list is such an abomination though.  Every single song on Boston's debut album get's heavy airplay and it doesn't crack the top 40?  Gimme a break. Are You Experienced deserves the number one slot.

P.S.  Fleet Foxes deserved to make the list.
 
2013-03-25 02:50:43 AM  

TheJoe03: Bongo Blue: what is a beat?

A hip-hop instrumental. Originally derived from the break beats found in 70s records.


But that's not important right now.
 
2013-03-25 02:51:40 AM  

funktilious_j: And I agree, Appetite for Destruction was and is an amazing album. Think of what was popular at the time, Poison, Cinderella, Dokken. Hair bands doing some hard rock songs and power ballads. Then this monstrosity comes along. That album is still one of my favorites, it was so goddamn dark.


People always say Nirvana was responsible for killing hair metal. GnR did a lot of the work for 'em.

/surprised Bleach & For You didn't make the list.
 
2013-03-25 02:56:09 AM  

RevMercutio: funktilious_j: And I agree, Appetite for Destruction was and is an amazing album. Think of what was popular at the time, Poison, Cinderella, Dokken. Hair bands doing some hard rock songs and power ballads. Then this monstrosity comes along. That album is still one of my favorites, it was so goddamn dark.

People always say Nirvana was responsible for killing hair metal. GnR did a lot of the work for 'em.

/surprised Bleach & For You didn't make the list.


And Butch Vig. And DGC Records/Universal Music Group
 
2013-03-25 02:56:39 AM  

Bongo Blue: TheJoe03: Bongo Blue: gimme something I can hear on youtube.
Don't link,I'm on a cell.

You just want instrumentals?

anything that helps me understand the beat.


What you need to know first is hip-hop instrumentals are typically 4/4 beats around 90 bpm.

A good example of an early 80's beat would be Planet Rock by Afrika Bambaataa and Zulu Nation, the Message by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious 5, Apache (Jump on it) by Sugarhill Gang, Children's Story by Slick Rick, Rock the Bells by LL Cool J, Brass Monkey by Beastie Boys, the Bridge is Over by KRS-One/Boogie Down Productions, It Takes Two by Rob Base, Paul Revere by the Beastie Boys, etc.

Good beats from the 90s would include Shook Ones Part II by Mobb Deep, They Reminisce Over You by Pete Rock and CL Smooth, CREAM by Wu-Tang, Juice (Know the Ledge) by Rakim, the Choice is Yours by Black Sheep, Ruff Ryders Anthem by DMX, Ice Cream by Raekwon, 93 till Infinity by Souls of Mischief, Passin Me By by Pharcyde, Still DRE by Dr Dre, Flava in Ya Ear by Craig Mack, I got 5 on it by Luniz, Luchini (This is it) by Camp Lo, etc.

Already named too many people so I didn't want to get into 00s beats, which are more futuristic and kind of back to the electro style that was going on in the early 80s.
 
2013-03-25 03:01:09 AM  

rook2112: Are You Experienced deserves the number one slot.


Back to the topic, I totally agree with that. Ill Communication ended up being the Beastie Boys weakest (or bottom 2 or 3) album. It was still good, but Are You Experienced? was arguably Jimi Hendrix's best album and we all now his place is modern music history.
 
2013-03-25 03:01:47 AM  
*know
 
2013-03-25 03:02:48 AM  
Oh and not all those 80s beats were early 80s, I wrote that when I was intending on breaking it down more (but that was too much work).
 
2013-03-25 03:05:25 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Wait a minute, crappy rap in the top 20, but no Meatloaf?


[Chandler Bing voice]Could you  be any whiter?[/Bing]
 
2013-03-25 03:09:39 AM  
As far as what I dug when I was a teen in the 00s, MF DOOM, Mos Def, Living Legends, Atmosphere, Eyedea and Abilities, and even the hated Kanye had great beats (and all except Kanye had great lyrics as well).
 
2013-03-25 03:11:40 AM  

TheJoe03: A good example of an early 80's beat would be Planet Rock by Afrika Bambaataa and Zulu Nation, the Message by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious 5,  Apache (Jump on it) by Sugarhill Gang,


Which was stolen from a British instrumental from the early 1960s.
 
2013-03-25 03:14:49 AM  
img1.nnm.ru
 
2013-03-25 03:16:07 AM  
What's funny is that ever since you had to start paying for samples, hip hop has gone away from that style. Paul's Boutique is one of the best electronic based albums of all time, but such an album can't be made anymore because of squares like Lorelle.
 
2013-03-25 03:24:16 AM  

TheJoe03: What's funny is that ever since you had to start paying for samples, hip hop has gone away from that style. Paul's Boutique is one of the best electronic based albums of all time, but such an album can't be made anymore because of squares like Lorelle.


If not liking shiat makes me L7, then so be it.

I'm glad that music thieves can't get away with it anymore. The artists whose music has been shamelessly ripped off should be compensated for their work.
 
2013-03-25 03:30:45 AM  

Lorelle: I'm glad that music thieves can't get away with it anymore. The artists whose music has been shamelessly ripped off should be compensated for their work.


Damn criminals! Ha, anyways, they have been compensated. Samples have to be cleared now, it's hardly stealing. A lot of hip-hop music should be seen as a collage of music based on digging in the crates for awesome breakbeats and samples, and blending the different sounds together into something completely new and in many cases they make the original song sound better. It even makes hip hop fans find where the sample came from and listen to the artists.

This is why hip hop fans are less likely to insult rock or electronic music since they derive their own music from such a large pool of music. I always liked the genre for this reason, the instrumentals are almost limitless. I've heard blues, jazz, electronic, metal, punk, alternative, country, foreign, whatever in hip hop beats and I love it. Now hip hop samples older hip hop and it sounds great (when done right of course). It's a generational thing, you were probably too old to understand it at the time while I was born when hip hop was coming into its own (late 80s).
 
2013-03-25 03:35:46 AM  

Lorelle: TheJoe03: What's funny is that ever since you had to start paying for samples, hip hop has gone away from that style. Paul's Boutique is one of the best electronic based albums of all time, but such an album can't be made anymore because of squares like Lorelle.

If not liking shiat makes me L7, then so be it.

I'm glad that music thieves can't get away with it anymore. The artists whose music has been shamelessly ripped off should be compensated for their work.


beach boys did it.
Led zepplin did it.
Nothing new there.
And they were nailed for it.
Spirit got sampled twice, 30 yrs apart.
Those guys were good.
 
2013-03-25 03:36:40 AM  
Have you even heard Paul's Boutique? Just how much are you talking our of your ass? I actually love classic rock and all kinds of stuff you would probably enjoy, so I actually know things about those genres. You, on the other hand, are coming from a position of total ignorance of hip hop music, and the only song you know was made by Nicki Minaj. It would be like a hip hop fan insulting rock music and using Creed as an example of why they think it sucks.
 
2013-03-25 03:40:12 AM  
upload.wikimedia.orgupload.wikimedia.orgupload.wikimedia.org
 img.noiset.comupload.wikimedia.orgupload.wikimedia.org
upload.wikimedia.orgupload.wikimedia.org  upload.wikimedia.org
upload.wikimedia.orgupload.wikimedia.orgupload.wikimedia.org

There
 
2013-03-25 03:49:00 AM  

TheJoe03: Damn criminals! Ha, anyways, they have been compensated. Samples have to be cleared now, it's hardly stealing. A lot of hip-hop music should be seen as a collage of music based on digging in the crates for awesome breakbeats and samples, and blending the different sounds together into something completely new and in many cases they make the original song sound better. It even makes hip hop fans find where the sample came from and listen to the artists.

This is why hip hop fans are less likely to insult rock or electronic music since they derive their own music from such a large pool of music. I always liked the genre for this reason, the instrumentals are almost limitless. I've heard blues, jazz, electronic, metal, punk, alternative, country, foreign, whatever in hip hop beats and I love it. Now hip hop samples older hip hop and it sounds great (when done right of course). It's a generational thing, you were probably too old to understand it at the time while I was born when hip hop was coming into its own (late 80s).


So the young vultures are now ripping off the old vultures...not surprising. Originality is truly dead.

I recall reading somewhere quite some time ago that the surviving Beatles weren't too happy about the Beastie Boys ripping off their music.

Every now and then I hear rap crap that's heavily based on classic stuff from Led Zeppelin, Supertramp, etc. It sucks. I'll take the full versions of the source music, thankyouverymuch.
 
2013-03-25 03:51:23 AM  

TheJoe03: I've heard blues, jazz, electronic, metal, punk, alternative, country, foreign, whatever


How dare I forget soul and funk based beats, I'm slipping.
 
2013-03-25 03:53:06 AM  

Lorelle: So the young vultures are now ripping off the old vultures...not surprising. Originality is truly dead.


You realize the people that were doing all the sampling are in their 40s and 50s now? Like Bongo Blue pointed out, a lot of the 70s bands were ripping off blues artists big time.
 
2013-03-25 03:55:51 AM  

TheJoe03: Bongo Blue: TheJoe03: Bongo Blue: gimme something I can hear on youtube.
Don't link,I'm on a cell.

You just want instrumentals?

anything that helps me understand the beat.

What you need to know first is hip-hop instrumentals are typically 4/4 beats around 90 bpm.

A good example of an early 80's beat would be Planet Rock by Afrika Bambaataa and Zulu Nation, the Message by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious 5, Apache (Jump on it) by Sugarhill Gang, Children's Story by Slick Rick, Rock the Bells by LL Cool J, Brass Monkey by Beastie Boys, the Bridge is Over by KRS-One/Boogie Down Productions, It Takes Two by Rob Base, Paul Revere by the Beastie Boys, etc.

Good beats from the 90s would include Shook Ones Part II by Mobb Deep, They Reminisce Over You by Pete Rock and CL Smooth, CREAM by Wu-Tang, Juice (Know the Ledge) by Rakim, the Choice is Yours by Black Sheep, Ruff Ryders Anthem by DMX, Ice Cream by Raekwon, 93 till Infinity by Souls of Mischief, Passin Me By by Pharcyde, Still DRE by Dr Dre, Flava in Ya Ear by Craig Mack, I got 5 on it by Luniz, Luchini (This is it) by Camp Lo, etc.

Already named too many people so I didn't want to get into 00s beats, which are more futuristic and kind of back to the electro style that was going on in the early 80s.


thanks. I needed to understand where you were coming from.
I think you and the lady defined beat a little different.
 
2013-03-25 03:57:40 AM  

TheJoe03: Lorelle: So the young vultures are now ripping off the old vultures...not surprising. Originality is truly dead.

You realize the people that were doing all the sampling are in their 40s and 50s now? Like Bongo Blue pointed out, a lot of the 70s bands were ripping off blues artists big time.


It's well-known that the Beach Boys had to cut Chuck Berry in on the profits for Surfin' USA and George Harrison was sued because My Sweet Lord sounded too much like The Chiffons' He's So Fine. They didn't  steal the artists' actual recordings, though.
 
2013-03-25 04:03:26 AM  

Lorelle: It's well-known that the Beach Boys had to cut Chuck Berry in on the profits for Surfin' USA and George Harrison was sued because My Sweet Lord sounded too much like The Chiffons' He's So Fine. They didn't  steal the artists' actual recordings, though.


So what you're saying is that you are still mad that hip hop artists got away with free samples 30 years ago? Move on. All music is derivative anyway, the "beat" (rhythm) you hate so much is the basis of all music.

Honest question, does the fact that hip hop love rhythm, rhymes, drums, and bass more than rock throw you off? I've personally always liked downtempo music with a good rhythm and solid bass (I play bass, btw), and I love lyrics so lyrical hip hop suits my tastes well. Just letting you know why I like the genre so you might understand this kind of point of view better.
 
2013-03-25 04:04:59 AM  
I also hope you know it's well known that hip-hop artists were eventually forced to pay for their samples, what's the difference? I'd take a collage over a cover song any day.
 
2013-03-25 04:06:10 AM  

Lorelle: TheJoe03: Lorelle: So the young vultures are now ripping off the old vultures...not surprising. Originality is truly dead.

You realize the people that were doing all the sampling are in their 40s and 50s now? Like Bongo Blue pointed out, a lot of the 70s bands were ripping off blues artists big time.

It's well-known that the Beach Boys had to cut Chuck Berry in on the profits for Surfin' USA and George Harrison was sued because My Sweet Lord sounded too much like The Chiffons' He's So Fine. They didn't  steal the artists' actual recordings, though.


no, they just played it exactly the same, claimed it as their own.
Of course, nothing gets by Mr Berry.
 
2013-03-25 04:12:09 AM  

TheJoe03: So what you're saying is that you are still mad that hip hop artists got away with free samples 30 years ago? Move on. All music is derivative anyway, the "beat" (rhythm) you hate so much is the basis of all music.

Honest question, does the fact that hip hop love rhythm, rhymes, drums, and bass more than rock throw you off? I've personally always liked downtempo music with a good rhythm and solid bass (I play bass, btw), and I love lyrics so lyrical hip hop suits my tastes well. Just letting you know why I like the genre so you might understand this kind of point of view better.


No, I detest the stupid lyrics, terrible voices, and lack of originality. I'd rather listen to Billy Don't Be A Hero (which sucks big time) than:

I'm the Queen of Miami. All that loud talkin, lyin, save that sh*t for your mammy. Sounds like "blah, blah blah, blah bla blah-blah," I'm like uh-huh (uh-huh) okay (okay), Whassup (whassup) SHUT UP!"

or this rather profound statement:

I like them black, white, Puerto Rican, or Haitian,

Like Japanese, Chinese, or even Asian


Now that I think about it, the vulture-upon-vulture stuff started back in the 1980s...Doug E. Fresh ripped off the Inspector Gadget theme, which in turn was a ripoff of Grieg's In The Hall of the Mountain King.
 
2013-03-25 04:14:04 AM  

Bongo Blue: thanks. I needed to understand where you were coming from.


No problem man, I love music and I enjoy introducing someone to something they haven't heard before. Personally, I love when people introduce me to music I never delved into as well, I got into a lot of stuff that way.
 
2013-03-25 04:15:11 AM  

Lorelle: I like them black, white, Puerto Rican, or Haitian,

Like Japanese, Chinese, or even Asian


Great song, A Tribe Called Quest is one of the best groups from the 90s.
 
2013-03-25 04:17:27 AM  
I like em brown, yellow, Puerto Rican, or Haitian
Name is Phife Dawg from the Zulu Nation
 
2013-03-25 04:21:04 AM  

TheJoe03: I like em brown, yellow, Puerto Rican, or Haitian
Name is Phife Dawg from the Zulu Nation


Oooohh Kayyyy.

It's rather late. This old lady needs her beauty sleep. Thanks for the nice, long argument. :)
 
2013-03-25 04:25:18 AM  

Lorelle: It's rather late. This old lady needs her beauty sleep. Thanks for the nice, long argument. :)


Good night, always nice to talk music and remember to keep on rockin in the free world.
 
2013-03-25 04:39:49 AM  
The Ramones are some kind of practical joke that someone is playing on everybody, right?
 
2013-03-25 06:43:50 AM  
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-25 06:57:23 AM  
The Who's debut at 94 and Roxy Music's at 62, with Boston's debut twenty-one slots above that?

And no Pixies?

We are most definitely done here.

/I said, "I want to be a singer like Lou Reed."
//"I like Lou Reed," she said, sticking her tongue in my ear.
///Let's go. Let's sit. Let's talk.
////Politics goes so good with beer. . . .
 
2013-03-25 07:14:28 AM  
List fails without

image.betamonline.com

in the top 10.
 
2013-03-25 08:27:04 AM  

Lorelle: I'm old enough to know what real music is (it ISN'T some illiterate thug chanting, "fark THA POLICE, or some skank yelling, "YOU A STUPID HOE"). I'm also not white.


That doesn't mean you're not an idiot.
 
2013-03-25 08:28:17 AM  

markfara: The Who's debut at 94 and Roxy Music's at 62, with Boston's debut twenty-one slots above that?

And no Pixies?

We are most definitely done here.

/I said, "I want to be a singer like Lou Reed."
//"I like Lou Reed," she said, sticking her tongue in my ear.
///Let's go. Let's sit. Let's talk.
////Politics goes so good with beer. . . .


I'm with ya. How can you not put the band who's music basically created the 90's rock sound higher?
 
2013-03-25 08:42:42 AM  
Replace the superfluous Elastica with:

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-25 08:45:07 AM  

konigsforst: was going to rip into you for that Wailers mistake, but I'll recommend some other debuts instead:
Ijahman - Haile I Hymn
Joe Higgs - LIfe of Contradiction
Fred Locks - Black Star Liners
Hugh Mundell - Africa Must Be Free by 1983
The Wailing Souls - s/t


Thank you. Some I know, some i don't. I'll be checking the don't knows out during the low and slow hours this afternoon.
 
2013-03-25 09:22:24 AM  

Shadow Blasko: fusillade762: Next issue: the 500 best sophomore albums of all time!
[encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 225x225]

#1 should be easy enough...


True, true, true...
 
2013-03-25 09:57:02 AM  

Sinbox: pic of LAMF and other records


Dude I am a HUGE Heartbreakers/Thunders fan and have performed with Walter Lure, but LAMF is a TERRIBLE sounding album LP recorded and mixed by inexperienced junkies.  It's only when you hear the live stuff you realize how great (some of) the songs were and how incredible ferocious that band was...

As for the whole list, I thought it was pretty good, but I am NY Centric also.  Although like many of you when I got to Kanye I threw up in my mouth a little...
 
2013-03-25 10:05:29 AM  

pimpnutz: the Sex Pistols definetely have no place here.


You'll have to explain that one to me.  NMTB makes nearly every critics top LPs of all time list.  You can not like it but agree it belongs, as I don't like the first Van Halen LP.
 
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