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(Huffington Post)   Burning a gay teen to death gets "prankster" three and a half years in jail. Stay classy England   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 257
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14359 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Mar 2013 at 12:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-24 10:15:25 PM  

Ukab the Great: pjc51: if I get into an argument and pull out a gun and shoot my opponent on the spot that's intentional, but not premeditated.

Premeditation does NOT require days or hours. It can be just minutes, even seconds. The fact that you have a gun tells the jury you intended to kill someone.


Just want to point out that there are people out there legitimately carrying firearms who have then proceeded to commit murders.  Cops being one category, but there was an incident involving a man of asian descent hunting with an SKS who got into an argument with some other hunters, then went batshiat and killed quite a few of them.  Up until he pulled the trigger, he was simply hunting.  Had a permit and everything, no previous interactions with the victims, etc...

ciberido: No, I could be carrying a gun for protection. I could be carrying a gun because I was on my way to the shooting range. I've no doubt that the prosecution could make much out of the fact that I was carrying a gun, but it doesn't guarantee they'll prove premeditation out of it.

Also, while you're TECHNICALLY correct that there is no legal "minimum time" in the USA for premeditation, I'd be curious to know what's the shortest length of time ACTUALLY used successfully in court to establish premeditation.


I'm not a lawyer, but you're correct on the first part.  Just because you bring a gun with you does not mean you premeditated killing with said gun.  You could be a police officer and carry one normally.  It's up to the prosecution to make that argument and sell it to the jury.

As for the 'minimum time' thing, it generally requires "leaving the scene".
 
2013-03-25 12:46:50 AM  

Europos: Yes, everything is murder in the U.S. What with your strange Murder 1 2 3 distinctions, but in Europe its usually:

murder (something very very specific; what spawn73 said) ----->manslaughter (fights; heat of moment stuff)---->indifferent killing (letting someone die because you just don't care)----->negligent killing (accidentially the whole human).


I think we may be the only country in the world that has formal legal distinctions like "murder in the first degree," versus second degree, etc.  I could be totally wrong, I'm no lawyer.  It's just that I keep seeing blurbs in newspapers from other countries -- some of them printed many decades back -- that mention "we don't have different kinds of murder in the legal system, but America does because... who knows why."
 
2013-03-25 12:57:44 AM  

over_and_done: I think we may be the only country in the world that has formal legal distinctions like "murder in the first degree," versus second degree, etc.  I could be totally wrong, I'm no lawyer.  It's just that I keep seeing blurbs in newspapers from other countries -- some of them printed many decades back -- that mention "we don't have different kinds of murder in the legal system, but America does because... who knows why."


USA, Canada, and Perú, apparently.
 
2013-03-25 01:01:59 AM  

ciberido: over_and_done: I think we may be the only country in the world that has formal legal distinctions like "murder in the first degree," versus second degree, etc.  I could be totally wrong, I'm no lawyer.  It's just that I keep seeing blurbs in newspapers from other countries -- some of them printed many decades back -- that mention "we don't have different kinds of murder in the legal system, but America does because... who knows why."

USA, Canada, and Perú, apparently.


Huh.  I'm not sure what other names on the list I was expecting, but it was not those two.
 
2013-03-25 03:08:54 AM  

over_and_done: Europos: Yes, everything is murder in the U.S. What with your strange Murder 1 2 3 distinctions, but in Europe its usually:

murder (something very very specific; what spawn73 said) ----->manslaughter (fights; heat of moment stuff)---->indifferent killing (letting someone die because you just don't care)----->negligent killing (accidentially the whole human).

I think we may be the only country in the world that has formal legal distinctions like "murder in the first degree," versus second degree, etc.  I could be totally wrong, I'm no lawyer.  It's just that I keep seeing blurbs in newspapers from other countries -- some of them printed many decades back -- that mention "we don't have different kinds of murder in the legal system, but America does because... who knows why."


I would guess that almost every country would have different penalties for different types of circumstances in a killing, even if it just givong lots of leeway to a judge/jury.

That being the case I will take our clearly defined system over other ones any day of the week. Do you want murder penalties decided more on the facts, or would you prefer the defendant's charisma and good looks count for more than they already do?

(see: statutory rape and women vs. men, hot vs. ugly)
 
2013-03-25 02:20:59 PM  

Smackledorfer: I would guess that almost every country would have different penalties for different types of circumstances in a killing, even if it just givong lots of leeway to a judge/jury.


Just picking a more or less random country, Australia might not have murder 'degrees', but it does appear to have a few flavors, "Constructive murder", provocation reduces it to manslaughter, etc...
 
2013-03-25 05:43:28 PM  
naked boy? Tanning oil?
 
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