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(Huffington Post)   Burning a gay teen to death gets "prankster" three and a half years in jail. Stay classy England   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 257
    More: Sick, Tyler Clementi, Yorkshire Post, Don Lemon, batty boys, Asperger syndrome, Trevor Project, Ottawa, Canada, Jim Swilley  
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14356 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Mar 2013 at 12:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-23 09:57:24 PM  
What, no hate crime penalty enhancer England?
 
2013-03-23 09:59:10 PM  
This kid is gonna do it again

But of course you will be there with more "rehabilitation" to help.
 
2013-03-23 10:45:57 PM  

Nina Haagen Dazs: What, no hate crime penalty enhancer England?


Because all crimes are hate crimes.

Also England is to law enforcement what Canada is to a tropical paradise.
 
2013-03-23 10:46:53 PM  
England can't have murders; they have gun control.

They are a "civilized" society.
 
2013-03-23 10:51:42 PM  

doglover: Nina Haagen Dazs: What, no hate crime penalty enhancer England?

Because all crimes are hate crimes.

Also England is to law enforcement what Canada is to a tropical paradise.


It's the 3 1/2 years that I can't get over. It took that kid 1 day to die from his injuries. Even loaded up with morphine, he would have suffered horribly. For being gay.
 
2013-03-23 11:00:22 PM  

Nina Haagen Dazs: doglover: Nina Haagen Dazs: What, no hate crime penalty enhancer England?

Because all crimes are hate crimes.

Also England is to law enforcement what Canada is to a tropical paradise.

It's the 3 1/2 years that I can't get over. It took that kid 1 day to die from his injuries. Even loaded up with morphine, he would have suffered horribly. For being gay.


What do you expect from a country that bans everything remotely dangerous, arrests people for inhuming home invaders, and doesn't let their police carry weapons? They don't even have a death penalty any more. Which is odd because England practically invented the modern idea of the humane death penalty in their Imperial age. Before that it was more... creative.
 
2013-03-23 11:08:09 PM  
Why wouldn't we allow a murderer too enjoy a little bit of life?

/from what I read - the murderer didn't intend on killing the teen. He just thought dousing the naked boy with baby oil and setting him aflame would be hilarious.
//and that was factored in to why he was charged with the lesser crime.
 
2013-03-23 11:09:09 PM  

doglover: Nina Haagen Dazs: doglover: Nina Haagen Dazs: What, no hate crime penalty enhancer England?

Because all crimes are hate crimes.

Also England is to law enforcement what Canada is to a tropical paradise.

It's the 3 1/2 years that I can't get over. It took that kid 1 day to die from his injuries. Even loaded up with morphine, he would have suffered horribly. For being gay.

What do you expect from a country that bans everything remotely dangerous, arrests people for inhuming home invaders, and doesn't let their police carry weapons? They don't even have a death penalty any more. Which is odd because England practically invented the modern idea of the humane death penalty in their Imperial age. Before that it was more... creative.

 
2013-03-23 11:12:18 PM  

Nina Haagen Dazs: doglover: Nina Haagen Dazs: doglover: Nina Haagen Dazs: What, no hate crime penalty enhancer England?

Because all crimes are hate crimes.

Also England is to law enforcement what Canada is to a tropical paradise.

It's the 3 1/2 years that I can't get over. It took that kid 1 day to die from his injuries. Even loaded up with morphine, he would have suffered horribly. For being gay.

What do you expect from a country that bans everything remotely dangerous, arrests people for inhuming home invaders, and doesn't let their police carry weapons? They don't even have a death penalty any more. Which is odd because England practically invented the modern idea of the humane death penalty in their Imperial age. Before that it was more... creative.


Whoops. Wrong button. I really don't know what I expect. More. I probably shouldn't compare England to the U.S, but I'd like to think he'd get a much harsher sentence here.
 
2013-03-23 11:18:26 PM  

Bontesla: Why wouldn't we allow a murderer too enjoy a little bit of life?

/from what I read - the murderer didn't intend on killing the teen. He just thought dousing the naked boy with baby oil and setting him aflame would be hilarious.
//and that was factored in to why he was charged with the lesser crime.


I sure hope that's sarcasm.
 
2013-03-23 11:22:48 PM  

Speaker2Animals: Bontesla: Why wouldn't we allow a murderer too enjoy a little bit of life?

/from what I read - the murderer didn't intend on killing the teen. He just thought dousing the naked boy with baby oil and setting him aflame would be hilarious.
//and that was factored in to why he was charged with the lesser crime.

I sure hope that's sarcasm.


Yes. You may want to have your sarcasm meter checked...
 
2013-03-23 11:38:26 PM  
Here I was expecting that England was actually being intelligent by not handing out life sentences to a juvenile.

Then I checked the article and saw the age. How the fark is that not a murder charge?
 
2013-03-23 11:40:37 PM  

Nina Haagen Dazs: I'd like to think he'd get a much harsher sentence here.


He would, but I hope not for hate crimes. Hate crime legislation is silly. It really is. I don't approve of it.

But necklacing an 18 year old? That alone deserves a harsher punishment.

Burning is one of my least favorite injuries. I've had burns all over my bod, or at least the parts you'd least like to be burnt. Not a good way to go.
 
2013-03-23 11:41:37 PM  

doglover: They don't even have a death penalty any more. Which is odd because England practically invented the modern idea of the humane death penalty in their Imperial age. Before that it was more... creative.


And what did drawing and quartering do to the crime rate? Zippo. Nada. Zilch.
 
2013-03-23 11:47:09 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: doglover: They don't even have a death penalty any more. Which is odd because England practically invented the modern idea of the humane death penalty in their Imperial age. Before that it was more... creative.

And what did drawing and quartering do to the crime rate? Zippo. Nada. Zilch.


Which is why in the Imperial age, they stopped doing that.

Read a book.
 
2013-03-23 11:49:44 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: doglover: They don't even have a death penalty any more. Which is odd because England practically invented the modern idea of the humane death penalty in their Imperial age. Before that it was more... creative.

And what did drawing and quartering do to the crime rate? Zippo. Nada. Zilch.


Honest question here. Not taking anyone's side. I am curious, is there some sort of crime rate report from the medieval ages? I have always wondered when we started writing this shiat down.
 
2013-03-23 11:50:15 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: doglover: They don't even have a death penalty any more. Which is odd because England practically invented the modern idea of the humane death penalty in their Imperial age. Before that it was more... creative.

And what did drawing and quartering do to the crime rate? Zippo. Nada. Zilch.


And studies on US crime have conclusively shown that the best indicator of predicting if someone commits a crime is having previously been in prison.

The only evidence that physical punishment actually brings down the crime rate comes from places like Denmark, where prisoners are actually rehabilitated, taught skills, treated as humans while in jail, and then returned to society.

We do none of that.
 
2013-03-23 11:51:07 PM  

doglover: Nina Haagen Dazs: I'd like to think he'd get a much harsher sentence here.

He would, but I hope not for hate crimes. Hate crime legislation is silly. It really is. I don't approve of it.

But necklacing an 18 year old? That alone deserves a harsher punishment.

Burning is one of my least favorite injuries. I've had burns all over my bod, or at least the parts you'd least like to be burnt. Not a good way to go.


I'm not a fan of hate crime legislation either but it seems appropriate here.
 
2013-03-23 11:57:59 PM  

GAT_00: Here I was expecting that England was actually being intelligent by not handing out life sentences to a juvenile.

Then I checked the article and saw the age. How the fark is that not a murder charge?


Because Britain, that's why.

The murderer must have had a hell of a lawyer, because the court bought the story that he was so stupid he didn't realize setting someone on fire would cause grievous injury.
 
2013-03-23 11:59:08 PM  

GAT_00: And studies on US crime have conclusively shown that the best indicator of predicting if someone commits a crime is having previously been in prison.


What conclusively shows they will commit a crime before they get to prison?
 
2013-03-24 12:03:46 AM  
GAT_00:
...and then returned to society.

We do none of that.


Bullshiat.  We let murderers out so they can increase their kill score, and we do it routinely.
 
2013-03-24 12:06:43 AM  

Lsherm: GAT_00: And studies on US crime have conclusively shown that the best indicator of predicting if someone commits a crime is having previously been in prison.

What conclusively shows they will commit a crime before they get to prison?


If you want a treatise on crime theorem, look elsewhere. There's 20 different theorems, and since it's sociology, none of them acknowledge the other.

One of the few testable versions has shown quite well that low socioeconomic status is a strong predictor. Basically, you leave people with no job and no hope of a future because your holy job creators left, people tend to choose to get what they can.

And since you've been gradually taking away government assistance too, they're even more desperate. And once they get out, they have no hope of anything. So they commit more crimes.

Long story made short: conservative economic and government philosophies have left blighted areas with no jobs, no income, no education, and no hope.

Why wouldn't you steal?
 
2013-03-24 12:08:43 AM  

Nina Haagen Dazs: doglover: Nina Haagen Dazs: I'd like to think he'd get a much harsher sentence here.

He would, but I hope not for hate crimes. Hate crime legislation is silly. It really is. I don't approve of it.

But necklacing an 18 year old? That alone deserves a harsher punishment.

Burning is one of my least favorite injuries. I've had burns all over my bod, or at least the parts you'd least like to be burnt. Not a good way to go.

I'm not a fan of hate crime legislation either but it seems appropriate here.


How can you say you don't like it while wishing you had it. Here's your proof that the legislation is necessary.

You can't have it both ways. What it sounds like to me is you want to pick and choose where to apply it when you find a case where you've decided the sentence isn't harsh enough.
 
2013-03-24 12:12:19 AM  

GAT_00: Nina Haagen Dazs: doglover: Nina Haagen Dazs: I'd like to think he'd get a much harsher sentence here.

He would, but I hope not for hate crimes. Hate crime legislation is silly. It really is. I don't approve of it.

But necklacing an 18 year old? That alone deserves a harsher punishment.

Burning is one of my least favorite injuries. I've had burns all over my bod, or at least the parts you'd least like to be burnt. Not a good way to go.

I'm not a fan of hate crime legislation either but it seems appropriate here.

How can you say you don't like it while wishing you had it. Here's your proof that the legislation is necessary.

You can't have it both ways. What it sounds like to me is you want to pick and choose where to apply it when you find a case where you've decided the sentence isn't harsh enough.


See, this is one reason I'm not a judge.
 
2013-03-24 12:16:34 AM  

Nina Haagen Dazs: I'm not a fan of hate crime legislation either but it seems appropriate here.


This is exactly the time you shouldn't use it.

You don't start an opiate addiction by saying "Boy, I'd like to spend my whole life chasing the dragon. I'm gonna go start an opiate addiction." You start it in legitimate case of pain that opiates work well to treat. Then you slowly build tolerance, increase the dose instead of weaning off, and well things go downhill from there.

Allowing hate crimes to gain traction will just lead to more legislation like hate crimes. Pretty soon you're in a Les Miserables situation where stealing a loaf of bread for your starving baby will get you 20 years' hard labor because you stole from a gay baker and so it's 3 days' time for the theft and 19 years 362 days' time for the hate crime and child endangerment by getting their parent arrested.

But again you'd think necklacing a kid would get you more punishment than 3 years regardless.
 
2013-03-24 12:21:24 AM  

cman: Honest question here. Not taking anyone's side. I am curious, is there some sort of crime rate report from the medieval ages? I have always wondered when we started writing this shiat down.


I don't know about the medieval period, but I do know that they gradually became more and more interested with quantitative analysis from the Enlightenment forward, particularly in the Victorian era.
 
2013-03-24 12:22:50 AM  

doglover: Nina Haagen Dazs: I'd like to think he'd get a much harsher sentence here.

He would, but I hope not for hate crimes. Hate crime legislation is silly. It really is. I don't approve of it.

But necklacing an 18 year old? That alone deserves a harsher punishment.

Burning is one of my least favorite injuries. I've had burns all over my bod, or at least the parts you'd least like to be burnt. Not a good way to go.



I agree on the hate crime thing. This was a brutal assault which ended in death. We shouldn't need hate crime enhancement to punish it harshly. 3 1/2 years is not early enough.

It's not quite the same as necklacing - I thought that involved a gasoline filled tire around the neck. Still, it's not much better.

Being burned is a pretty intense pain and I'm lucky that mine have been limited to small areas (mostly cigarettes, the occasional soldering iron and kitchen accident too) none of which required seeking medical attention. This guy was burned so badly it killed him

cman: Honest question here. Not taking anyone's side. I am curious, is there some sort of crime rate report from the medieval ages? I have always wondered when we started writing this shiat down.



This chart doesn't go back quite as far as medieval, but it's interesting nonetheless.

marginalrevolution.com

The site where it came from: Link  (it links to a PDF which includes a graph showing estimated homicides in parts of England going back to 1200. PDF was way too long for me to even start reading)
 
2013-03-24 12:23:58 AM  

Nina Haagen Dazs: GAT_00: Nina Haagen Dazs: doglover: Nina Haagen Dazs: I'd like to think he'd get a much harsher sentence here.

He would, but I hope not for hate crimes. Hate crime legislation is silly. It really is. I don't approve of it.

But necklacing an 18 year old? That alone deserves a harsher punishment.

Burning is one of my least favorite injuries. I've had burns all over my bod, or at least the parts you'd least like to be burnt. Not a good way to go.

I'm not a fan of hate crime legislation either but it seems appropriate here.

How can you say you don't like it while wishing you had it. Here's your proof that the legislation is necessary.

You can't have it both ways. What it sounds like to me is you want to pick and choose where to apply it when you find a case where you've decided the sentence isn't harsh enough.

See, this is one reason I'm not a judge.


It's simple. It either applies always or not. If you think a hate crimes law should exist for one case, it exists for all cases.

There is no real question here. Only your own morals that are apparently in your own way from recognizing that hate crimes exist and there should be a law for them.
 
2013-03-24 12:30:42 AM  

unamused: England can't have murders; they have gun control.

They are a "civilized" society.


I'm so confused. Where was the gun in this story again?
 
2013-03-24 12:30:49 AM  
3 1/2 years? Wow England is pretty draconian with their anti-smoking laws.
 
2013-03-24 12:31:23 AM  

doglover: Nina Haagen Dazs: What, no hate crime penalty enhancer England?

Because all crimes are hate crimes.

Also England is to law enforcement what Canada is to a tropical paradise.


That has to be the stupidest thing I have ever read in my life. Congrats?
 
2013-03-24 12:32:46 AM  

GAT_00: And studies on US crime have conclusively shown that the best indicator of predicting if someone commits a crime is having previously been in prison


Perhaps it's the best predictor, but 100% of people who are sent to prison have been convicted of a crime. Not everyone returns to prison for a subsequent offense.

Nina Haagen Dazs:
I'm not a fan of hate crime legislation either but it seems appropriate here.


Why?

Do you think if he were straight and just disliked for other reasons that he would have suffered any less?
 
2013-03-24 12:32:58 AM  
something is missing here.
it's the gay kid's own birthday party. if this guy hated him so much, why was he invited?

this is what it sounds like to me:

1. gay kid throws party, invites a bunch of stupid friends
2. gay kid strips, lets his friends write all sorts of dumb stuff on him, enjoys the attention he's getting.
3. stupid friend decides it would be funny to see him try to put out the burning oil, figures it would just last a few seconds like he's seen on youtube
4. gay kid starts burning and can't stop it because the oil is all over and soaked into his skin, dies from massive loss of skin

It sounds like they are casting this as "bully writes anti gay stuff on poor helpless gay kid and then sets him on fire", but it just doesn't add up with the situation. for that to happen the "yob" would have to push his way into the kid's party, write all the stuff on him and set him on fire right in front of all his presumably friendly friends and family (it was at his home), without anyone trying to stop him.
 
2013-03-24 12:33:04 AM  
I guess being burned alive is so much more humane than being shot.
 
2013-03-24 12:33:50 AM  

doglover: Nina Haagen Dazs: I'm not a fan of hate crime legislation either but it seems appropriate here.

This is exactly the time you shouldn't use it.

You don't start an opiate addiction by saying "Boy, I'd like to spend my whole life chasing the dragon. I'm gonna go start an opiate addiction." You start it in legitimate case of pain that opiates work well to treat. Then you slowly build tolerance, increase the dose instead of weaning off, and well things go downhill from there.

Allowing hate crimes to gain traction will just lead to more legislation like hate crimes. Pretty soon you're in a Les Miserables situation where stealing a loaf of bread for your starving baby will get you 20 years' hard labor because you stole from a gay baker and so it's 3 days' time for the theft and 19 years 362 days' time for the hate crime and child endangerment by getting their parent arrested.

But again you'd think necklacing a kid would get you more punishment than 3 years regardless.


Herpity derpity doooo!
 
2013-03-24 12:35:20 AM  

Bontesla: Why wouldn't we allow a murderer too enjoy a little bit of life?

/from what I read - the murderer didn't intend on killing the teen. He just thought dousing the naked boy with baby oil and setting him aflame would be hilarious.
//and that was factored in to why he was charged with the lesser crime.


Pretty much this.

Murder is the intentional killing of a human being by another human being with malice aforethought; malice being defined as intent to kill, intent to cause grievous bodily harm (as they say in Britain), wanton and reckless disregard for human life, or death in the commission of another felony.

And no matter how stupid, heartless, evil or hateful this moron's actions were, there's just no evidence he intentionally set the victim on fire intending to kill him OR seriously injure him. He probably thought it would be funny as hell and may not even have thought it would hurt him too much. Just give him a few blisters. And since, as people keep reminding me, stupidity is not a felony, 3 1/2 years is about the best the judge could do.
 
2013-03-24 12:37:23 AM  

Happy Hours: It's not quite the same as necklacing - I thought that involved a gasoline filled tire around the neck. Still, it's not much better.


Accelerant + full body coverage. Potato, potahto.

Three years seems light.

dave2198: That has to be the stupidest thing I have ever read in my life.

The U.S. Supreme Court unanimously found the St. Paul Bias-Motivated Crime Ordinance amounted to viewpoint-based discrimination is in conflict with rights of free speech, because it selectively criminalized bias-motivated speech or symbolic speech for disfavored topics while permitting such speech for other topics.[64] Many critics further assert that it conflicts with an even more fundamental right: free thought. The claim is that hate-crime legislation effectively makes certain ideas or beliefs, including religious ones, illegal, in other words, thought crimes.[65][66][67][68][69][70][71]


But you know, only the Supreme Court agrees with me. I guess I'll just give up on the ideals of freedom because dave2168 has a keyboard.
 
2013-03-24 12:38:13 AM  
Really? No "that boy was FLAMING" jokes yet?  Well ... actually that is probably for the best.
 
2013-03-24 12:38:47 AM  

Gyrfalcon: 3 1/2 years is about the best the judge could do.


I'd have him dig his own hole and shoot him.
Done.
Never happen again.
 
2013-03-24 12:38:52 AM  

doglover: Happy Hours: It's not quite the same as necklacing - I thought that involved a gasoline filled tire around the neck. Still, it's not much better.

Accelerant + full body coverage. Potato, potahto.

Three years seems light.

dave2198: That has to be the stupidest thing I have ever read in my life.

The U.S. Supreme Court unanimously found the St. Paul Bias-Motivated Crime Ordinance amounted to viewpoint-based discrimination is in conflict with rights of free speech, because it selectively criminalized bias-motivated speech or symbolic speech for disfavored topics while permitting such speech for other topics.[64] Many critics further assert that it conflicts with an even more fundamental right: free thought. The claim is that hate-crime legislation effectively makes certain ideas or beliefs, including religious ones, illegal, in other words, thought crimes.[65][66][67][68][69][70][71]

But you know, only the Supreme Court agrees with me. I guess I'll just give up on the ideals of freedom because dave2168 has a keyboard.


This just in: The Supreme Court has never made a mistake.

Also, people steal bread because they hate, according to the genius doglover.
 
2013-03-24 12:39:11 AM  

Your Average Witty Fark User: unamused: England can't have murders; they have gun control.

They are a "civilized" society.

I'm so confused. Where was the gun in this story again?


There is none.  That's why England is a "civilized" country, as evinced by the assailant in this story, and his subsequent punishment by English society.
 
2013-03-24 12:39:41 AM  
"Stay classy England"
As babies are shot and kindergarten kids massacred in America.That is rich.
 
2013-03-24 12:40:13 AM  
"Simpson had Asperger's syndrome, a speech impairment and epilepsy" put aside the hate crime aspect for a second. In most American courts sentences are doubled for assaulting children, the elderly or handicapped. In most stated he would get 3 1/2 years for assaulting the kid let alone murder.
 
2013-03-24 12:41:47 AM  
3 year for murder? I'm gonna fly my ex-wire over there and have a few words with her.
 
2013-03-24 12:42:06 AM  

cman: This kid is gonna do it again

But of course you will be there with more "rehabilitation" to help.


pics.imcdb.org
 
2013-03-24 12:45:33 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: I'm gonna fly my ex-wire over there and have a few words with her.


It has ceased to be. It is deceased. It is no more. It bereft of life. It is an ex-wire.

www.jimandchris.com
 
2013-03-24 12:45:38 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Pretty much this.

Murder is the intentional killing of a human being by another human being with malice aforethought; malice being defined as intent to kill, intent to cause grievous bodily harm (as they say in Britain), wanton and reckless disregard for human life, or death in the commission of another felony.

And no matter how stupid, heartless, evil or hateful this moron's actions were, there's just no evidence he intentionally set the victim on fire intending to kill him OR seriously injure him. He probably thought it would be funny as hell and may not even have thought it would hurt him too much. Just give him a few blisters. And since, as people keep reminding me, stupidity is not a felony, 3 1/2 years is about the best the judge could do.


And to add on:
Just go to youtube.  There's a LOT of videos of dumbasses dousing themselves/friends with baby oil or alcohol for fire stunts like this.
 
2013-03-24 12:46:18 AM  

duenor: without anyone trying to stop him.


Defending yourself, or your family will get you put in prison, in England.
 
2013-03-24 12:47:00 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: Gyrfalcon: Pretty much this.

Murder is the intentional killing of a human being by another human being with malice aforethought; malice being defined as intent to kill, intent to cause grievous bodily harm (as they say in Britain), wanton and reckless disregard for human life, or death in the commission of another felony.

And no matter how stupid, heartless, evil or hateful this moron's actions were, there's just no evidence he intentionally set the victim on fire intending to kill him OR seriously injure him. He probably thought it would be funny as hell and may not even have thought it would hurt him too much. Just give him a few blisters. And since, as people keep reminding me, stupidity is not a felony, 3 1/2 years is about the best the judge could do.

And to add on:
Just go to youtube.  There's a LOT of videos of dumbasses dousing themselves/friends with baby oil or alcohol for fire stunts like this.


Yeah there are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-ZVFee_CHs
 
2013-03-24 12:47:09 AM  
"Ok, yeah, I lit him on fire. It got a few laughs from the rest of the group and it seemed like a good idea at the time. How was I suppose to know it would kill him?"
 
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