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(The Courier UK)   Web sites that collect customer reviews of services are a good thing, right? Well, hospital overseers don't seem to think so. But then again, most reviews of plumbers and babysitters don't involve anyone dying   (thecourier.co.uk) divider line 44
    More: Interesting, TripAdvisor, anonymous post, Mr. Stewart, VI-C, collects  
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1723 clicks; posted to Business » on 23 Mar 2013 at 11:41 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



44 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-03-23 08:21:53 AM  
And you'll adapt, or your successor will.
 
2013-03-23 08:23:24 AM  
Medical director Dr Gordon Birnie told the health board's operational divisional committee that while patient feedback was welcome, anonymous posts on a website were not.

He said: "I think all patient feedback is valuable. Some anonymous feedback worries me, in that I think it is important we try to have dialogue with patients to get their opinions and encourage staff to have dialogue with patients, rather than one-way traffic because that can be quite destructive, as seen with TripAdvisor, for example.

"There have been a number of posts on Twitter that have been, frankly, libellous and we have asked people to take them down because they were not appropriate."


Seems a bit miffed people might not have golden opinions of his services.

Ever notice when a PR/public speaking person inserts "frankly," into speech, it is usually a signal that whats coming next is grade A weapons PR Bullsh*t ?
 
2013-03-23 08:51:30 AM  
www.aidthoughts.org
 
2013-03-23 09:59:57 AM  
A little context is helpful.

There's quite a large chasm between "My son Timmy was run over by nine non-consecutive freight trains and those bastards at Our Lady of the Unintended Erection didn't save the bucket full of Timmy we took to the ER" and "I had the flu and they accidentally amputated my torso."
 
2013-03-23 10:48:06 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: A little context is helpful.

There's quite a large chasm between "My son Timmy was run over by nine non-consecutive freight trains and those bastards at Our Lady of the Unintended Erection didn't save the bucket full of Timmy we took to the ER" and "I had the flu and they accidentally amputated my torso."


Well, you have to sort through that sort of thing in user reviews of things that are a bit less life-and-death, like restaurant reviews.  Some people are actually giving well thought out reviews of a place, others are just venting butthurt over some perceived slight.  I don't see how that would be any different for doctors/hospitals.
 
2013-03-23 11:34:08 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Our Lady of the Unintended Erection


A nice way to start my day.
 
2013-03-23 11:58:57 AM  

jake_lex: Mr. Coffee Nerves: A little context is helpful.

There's quite a large chasm between "My son Timmy was run over by nine non-consecutive freight trains and those bastards at Our Lady of the Unintended Erection didn't save the bucket full of Timmy we took to the ER" and "I had the flu and they accidentally amputated my torso."

Well, you have to sort through that sort of thing in user reviews of things that are a bit less life-and-death, like restaurant reviews.  Some people are actually giving well thought out reviews of a place, others are just venting butthurt over some perceived slight.  I don't see how that would be any different for doctors/hospitals.


It is always important to control for the "the staff was rude" folks who troll every restaurant review (such that we can't tell if the staff is really rude or if the reviewer is a dick).  I would hate for the administrative upshot be something stupid like "your smile is part of your uniform" (cringe) being applied to extensively trained medical folks.

/give me a competent doctor is who is an asshole over a nice incompetent doctor
//although best of both worlds is a competent doctor who does not have a God complex - rara avis
 
2013-03-23 12:05:35 PM  
Mr Stewart said: "Bed managers do an extremely difficult job in often trying conditions. If it wasn't for them, a lot of patients would not get into hospital."

I'm no genius, but how about getting more beds?
 
2013-03-23 12:11:30 PM  
The PR flack is missing an opportunity to anonymously give poor reviews of competitors.
 
2013-03-23 12:15:39 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: /give me a competent doctor is who is an asshole over a nice incompetent doctor


Statistics tell you that the former gets sued for malpractice much more often, even thought the latter is a terrible doctor.
 
2013-03-23 12:22:54 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: jake_lex: Mr. Coffee Nerves: A little context is helpful.

There's quite a large chasm between "My son Timmy was run over by nine non-consecutive freight trains and those bastards at Our Lady of the Unintended Erection didn't save the bucket full of Timmy we took to the ER" and "I had the flu and they accidentally amputated my torso."

Well, you have to sort through that sort of thing in user reviews of things that are a bit less life-and-death, like restaurant reviews.  Some people are actually giving well thought out reviews of a place, others are just venting butthurt over some perceived slight.  I don't see how that would be any different for doctors/hospitals.

It is always important to control for the "the staff was rude" folks who troll every restaurant review (such that we can't tell if the staff is really rude or if the reviewer is a dick).   I would hate for the administrative upshot be something stupid like "your smile is part of your uniform" (cringe) being applied to extensively trained medical folks.

/give me a competent doctor is who is an asshole over a nice incompetent doctor
//although best of both worlds is a competent doctor who does not have a God complex - rara avis


It's already happening.

Medicare is withholding 1% of reimbursement to hospitals (soon to be 2%), and will dole out those funds as a "bonus" to each hospital based upon how well it complies with quality measures, and patient satisfaction surveys.  The "patient satisfaction" component accounts for 30% of the bonus payment.

Because up to 0.3% of their Medicare reimbursement could be withheld based upon Yelp-like trolling, hospitals are training their staff to be friendlier not only to the inpatients, but also the visitors and persons coming to the hospital for outpatient testing and procedures.
 
2013-03-23 12:31:10 PM  

Parthenogenetic: Because up to 0.3% of their Medicare reimbursement could be withheld based upon Yelp-like trolling, hospitals are training their staff to be friendlier not only to the inpatients, but also the visitors and persons coming to the hospital for outpatient testing and procedures.


fark that.  I want my stripper to be friendly when I make it rain, but I want my doctor, nurse, etc. to be competent when my friggin life is at stake.
 
2013-03-23 12:34:03 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: //although best of both worlds is a competent doctor who does not have a God complex - rara avis


Though in their defense, you sort of are playing God as a doctor, especially if you're a surgeon.  Life and death in your hands.
 
2013-03-23 12:40:59 PM  
The hospitals will just hire the guys that do IMDB reviews
 
2013-03-23 01:02:52 PM  
Thats just it. All on line reviews are probably suspect at this point. There are businesses that use Yelp, so what happens, employees dump favorable reviews of each other onto yelp. Every restaurant in town seems like they have glowing reviews that are disconnected from the reality of actually going there. Facebook likes translate into "people on facebook telling me whats good based on their own silly needs to be noticed on facebook."

No thanks..
 
2013-03-23 01:31:53 PM  

12349876: AliceBToklasLives: //although best of both worlds is a competent doctor who does not have a God complex - rara avis

Though in their defense, you sort of are playing God as a doctor, especially if you're a surgeon.  Life and death in your hands.


An incompetent bus driver can kill more people people in a day than an incompetent doctor.  The only reason doctors are allowed to be megalomaniac arseholes is because of a broken, tired medical culture that hasn't evolved since the 1950's.
 
2013-03-23 01:45:31 PM  

BigLuca: 12349876: AliceBToklasLives: //although best of both worlds is a competent doctor who does not have a God complex - rara avis

Though in their defense, you sort of are playing God as a doctor, especially if you're a surgeon.  Life and death in your hands.

An incompetent bus driver can kill more people people in a day than an incompetent doctor.  The only reason doctors are allowed to be megalomaniac arseholes is because of a broken, tired medical culture that hasn't evolved since the 1950's.


And the lobbyists they pay to keep things this way. There's a reason most doctors and the AMA are Republicans, and lobbied hard to prevent Health Care Reform.
 
2013-03-23 01:49:00 PM  

BigLuca: 12349876: AliceBToklasLives: //although best of both worlds is a competent doctor who does not have a God complex - rara avis

Though in their defense, you sort of are playing God as a doctor, especially if you're a surgeon.  Life and death in your hands.

An incompetent bus driver can kill more people people in a day than an incompetent doctor.  The only reason doctors are allowed to be megalomaniac arseholes is because of a broken, tired medical culture that hasn't evolved since the 1950's.


If by that you mean that doctors admit patients, perform procedures, and order tests and procedures that make the hospital money... yes you are right.

If by that you mean that a radiology tech or nurse's aide should command equal respect as a doctor because they are medical professionals too... well, they are making sure that the doctors know they can't lord it over other people so don't worry.
 
2013-03-23 01:53:34 PM  

BigLuca: 12349876: AliceBToklasLives: //although best of both worlds is a competent doctor who does not have a God complex - rara avis

Though in their defense, you sort of are playing God as a doctor, especially if you're a surgeon.  Life and death in your hands.

An incompetent bus driver can kill more people people in a day than an incompetent doctor.  The only reason doctors are allowed to be megalomaniac arseholes is because of a broken, tired medical culture that hasn't evolved since the 1950's.


That bus driver would also probably be killing himself.  Big difference there.
 
2013-03-23 01:55:44 PM  
The last thing the medical industry wants is any way to compare quality between providers.  That would be the beginning of price transparency, which they can't have.
 
2013-03-23 01:59:30 PM  
I used to be a fan of user reviews, but they've gotten to the point that I just don't trust them anymore. Take Amazon for example, look up any product and chances are for every 4-5 star review there will be an equal number of 1-2 star reviews. For everyone who says the item is sturdy and well built there will be one who says it's a cheap POS that fell apart in their hands. People will give an item a bad review because the shipping was slow, and they give high reviews for equally worthless points. I just rely on my own better judgement on things now.
 
2013-03-23 02:22:11 PM  
The problem is that most people just aren't very good reviewers. They commonly place outsized emphasis on irrelevant factors.

I wish that sites like Yelp and TripAdvisor were actually useful in discerning quality. But sadly, I've concluded they aren't.
 
2013-03-23 02:28:52 PM  

12349876: BigLuca: 12349876: AliceBToklasLives: //although best of both worlds is a competent doctor who does not have a God complex - rara avis

Though in their defense, you sort of are playing God as a doctor, especially if you're a surgeon.  Life and death in your hands.

An incompetent bus driver can kill more people people in a day than an incompetent doctor.  The only reason doctors are allowed to be megalomaniac arseholes is because of a broken, tired medical culture that hasn't evolved since the 1950's.

That bus driver would also probably be killing himself.  Big difference there.


Yeah, he should ranked down there with airline pilots.
 
2013-03-23 02:31:45 PM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The last thing the medical industry wants is any way to compare quality between providers.  That would be the beginning of price transparency, which they can't have.


The hospitals would just pay outsource reviewers to post favorable reviews. Its already being done by hotel chains and Best Buy.
 
2013-03-23 02:44:14 PM  

Corn_Fed: The problem is that most people just aren't very good reviewers. They commonly place outsized emphasis on irrelevant factors.

I wish that sites like Yelp and TripAdvisor were actually useful in discerning quality. But sadly, I've concluded they aren't.


Also, don't forget (and this has been true since before the Internet was invented)... people tend to complain/post a bad review when they have a bad experience MUCH MORE so than they would rave/post a good review when they've had a good experience.

Good meal with good service:  "well, that was nice"

Bad mean or bad service: "fark this, I'm taking this to Yelp!"
 
2013-03-23 03:35:12 PM  
Twitter and outside anonymous internet comments and the medical profession do not mix.  Hospitals and clinics usually send home surveys about how they're doing to most patients.  The feedback is metered such that only those who got care should be giving their opinion.

biatching and complaining that the "diabeetus" clinic didn't have a place to pet-sit your 37 cats isn't something that needs to be connected to the medical profession.
 
2013-03-23 03:42:25 PM  

Corn_Fed: The problem is that most people just aren't very good reviewers. They commonly place outsized emphasis on irrelevant factors.

I wish that sites like Yelp and TripAdvisor were actually useful in discerning quality. But sadly, I've concluded they aren't.


Okay, so that makes  one of us who doesn't want to consider the hotness of the nurses in selecting a medical facility...
 
2013-03-23 04:07:58 PM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: Twitter and outside anonymous internet comments and the medical profession do not mix.  Hospitals and clinics usually send home surveys about how they're doing to most patients.  The feedback is metered such that only those who got care should be giving their opinion.

biatching and complaining that the "diabeetus" clinic didn't have a place to pet-sit your 37 cats isn't something that needs to be connected to the medical profession.



weird straw-men like this tell me we're onto something. the medical profession doesn't want itself beholden to consumer reviews. Which is interesting, cause they're all the fark over consumer media advertising the latest bullsh*t remedy for fake made up diseases.
 
2013-03-23 04:19:30 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: Parthenogenetic: Because up to 0.3% of their Medicare reimbursement could be withheld based upon Yelp-like trolling, hospitals are training their staff to be friendlier not only to the inpatients, but also the visitors and persons coming to the hospital for outpatient testing and procedures.

fark that.  I want my stripper to be friendly when I make it rain, but I want my doctor, nurse, etc. to be competent when my friggin life is at stake.


False dichotomy. If they don't give enough if a crap to be civil to you, are they gonna bother with an extra 5 minutes of CPR when their tee time is coming up? Compassion is part of competent care.
 
2013-03-23 04:30:48 PM  

mxyzplk: AliceBToklasLives: Parthenogenetic: Because up to 0.3% of their Medicare reimbursement could be withheld based upon Yelp-like trolling, hospitals are training their staff to be friendlier not only to the inpatients, but also the visitors and persons coming to the hospital for outpatient testing and procedures.

fark that.  I want my stripper to be friendly when I make it rain, but I want my doctor, nurse, etc. to be competent when my friggin life is at stake.

False dichotomy. If they don't give enough if a crap to be civil to you, are they gonna bother with an extra 5 minutes of CPR when their tee time is coming up? Compassion is part of competent care.


Double false dichotomy - Jerks often have plenty of compassion but no conception of how to relate to another human being - Friendly people are often faking it, hell they are told to fake it at the cost of their jobs.  "I'll smile, but fark double-checking that MRI"
 
2013-03-23 04:33:26 PM  
The main problem in Britain was that they tried to run the NHS by rewarding managers who could cut the most costs out of the system.

Wage costs were one of the most obvious, so they cut rosters and got rid of the more experienced/expensive nurses.

Astonishingly this led to such poor nursing that doctors were prescribing water to ensure patients weren't left dehydrated, patients who couldn't feed themselves starving, and families having to be there 24/7 just to make sure their relative got to the toilet before he shat the bed.

Oh, and the little details like "In four years at one hospital in Stafford, some 500 people died as a result of negligence by NHS personnel. One death because of negligence is shocking and tragic. Five hundred leaves any reasonable observer flailing for adjectives, especially when it emerges that staff who tried to bring the crisis to the attention of their superiors were bullied into silence."(London Times 4 Feb 2013)

So  perhaps a little more transparency and accountability might be a good idea
 
2013-03-23 04:41:01 PM  
Personally I think a price comparison site for medical services with customer reviews would od wonders to lower health care costs, but the American Medical Association forbids this under copyright law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_Procedural_Terminology#Copyrigh t
 
2013-03-23 04:49:09 PM  

Generation_D: weird straw-men like this tell me we're onto something. the medical profession doesn't want itself beholden to consumer reviews. Which is interesting, cause they're all the fark over consumer media advertising the latest bullsh*t remedy for fake made up diseases.


You're a complete retard.  I guess you selectively misread the "The feedback is metered such that only those who got care should be giving their opinion." Part of my post.
 
2013-03-23 05:55:46 PM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: Generation_D: weird straw-men like this tell me we're onto something. the medical profession doesn't want itself beholden to consumer reviews. Which is interesting, cause they're all the fark over consumer media advertising the latest bullsh*t remedy for fake made up diseases.

You're a complete retard.  I guess you selectively misread the "The feedback is metered such that only those who got care should be giving their opinion." Part of my post.


Or you dodged the original point, which was medical people seem pretty anti this whole idea, and judging by the passionate rebuttal/insult, tells me there's probably something to it. Some jimmies being rustled. Some big reaction to a simple idea: let consumers rate their medical care.

It would not matter in the end, people that trust online reviews will be led by hundreds of faked posts by professional reviewers, and people that don't follow reviews will keep going to the hospitals they trust based on various reasons they have already. We'll all keep getting charged the worst rate on return in any first-world nation for our health care, and you can keep on screaming at nicknames on a comment forum.
 
2013-03-23 06:35:52 PM  
Newsflash: The entire medical-industrial complex would like to be treated differently (ie. specially) than all other industries. Pay no attention to this.
 
2013-03-23 06:42:51 PM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The last thing the medical industry wants is any way to compare quality between providers.  That would be the beginning of price transparency, which they can't have.


This.
 
2013-03-23 09:00:51 PM  

mxyzplk: AliceBToklasLives: Parthenogenetic: Because up to 0.3% of their Medicare reimbursement could be withheld based upon Yelp-like trolling, hospitals are training their staff to be friendlier not only to the inpatients, but also the visitors and persons coming to the hospital for outpatient testing and procedures.

fark that.  I want my stripper to be friendly when I make it rain, but I want my doctor, nurse, etc. to be competent when my friggin life is at stake.

False dichotomy. If they don't give enough if a crap to be civil to you, are they gonna bother with an extra 5 minutes of CPR when their tee time is coming up? Compassion is part of competent care.


www.virginmedia.com

Doc Martin disagrees.
 
2013-03-23 10:22:16 PM  
I don't know how it is 'over there' but here, our hospitals have been placed under tremendous strain by the economy, Medicare cuts, lack of health insurance and the very litigious nature of people.

Basically, when you lay off staff to save money, you increase the work load for those who remain and when you don't even give them raises to compensate, you get unhappy, over worked people who are NOT going to do their best.

I've seen it change the hospital in my city, which was once considered one of the best in the state. Now, it's hovering on becoming one of the worst. Complaints about the ER surfaced some years ago, so they built this new one, which is spectacular.

They just didn't hire enough staff to run it. (Costs, you know.)

When the hospital was built, some politically connected idiot decided to make all of the patient rooms single bed capacity. The staff of the old hospital, which consisted of double bed status, bitterly fought against it and were ignored. So, now we have this huge new hospital that holds about the same amount of folks as the old one did in twice the space.

They even narrowed the hallways to conserve costs, then promptly jammed them up with excess equipment since the designers neglected to add the ever necessary storage rooms.

My elderly mother was once held in the ER for 18 hours, because while they had a room for her, they did not have sufficient staff for her care.

The hospital spends a fortune in defending itself against lawsuits, even in the best of times. Lawyers seem to see it as a free lunch.

They took out the great cafeteria they used to have for visitors and staff and replaced it with something that consists of steam trays. The food has suffered for it. Meal time had been one of the more pleasant periods the over worked staff had been able to look foreword to.

Not anymore.

Over worked staff in a hospital tend to make major errors that can hurt or kill someone. They decrease washing their hands between patients because they're rushed, which increases the spread of diseases like staph. Patient care drops as staff finds they can no longer take the time to talk with worried patients and have to prioritize their duties. It also takes them longer to answer call bells.

The usual response from the hospital managers is stern lectures on improving the quality of care, threats of termination and pressuring the head nurses on the floors to take more responsibility in the actions of their crews -- even though they're so busy now that they barely have time to run to the can.

We went from a hospital administrator to a CEO. He makes a darn good salary. He has a golden parachute to protect him even if he is fired. The hospital bought him and his family a high end home in an exclusive community, provide him with cars and pay for his kids education in private schools. They pay for his health insurance, and if he leaves for any reason, the coverage will last for at least a year. He will also leave with a guaranteed severance package of several million.

I'm not exactly sure why they hired him. The old hospital administrators made less, but did more. When I worked at the old hospital in the 70's, the administrator actually came out of his office and walked the halls to see how things were going. He would stop and talk with employees. His office, BTW, was large, but situated right next to an elder care ward and off the main hall. Not isolated by itself on the top floor.

Having worked in a hospital, I can assure you that stressing the staff designated to care for your ill is NOT conducive to assuring good, quality care. These people need to think on their feet and not be preoccupied with threats from the supervisor or having to work a second job just to pay their power bills.

Also, cutting costs means you're not going to get good quality people willing to work so hard for low pay. You will get slackers, who will skillfully drag out their work to do less and complain how they aren't getting paid enough. They'll also steal from the hospital and patients.

Folks need to think about that when the local government decides to cut hospital funding.
 
2013-03-24 02:36:26 AM  
As a nurse (RN), I certainly believe that we should give quality, competent care.  We need our patients to be comfortable and satisfied, and it's important to help the patient understand what is going on with their care.  However, there are limits. We are not a customer-is-always-right/have-it-your-way field.  No, you cannot smoke while on oxygen, if that pisses you off, too bad, I'd rather not put you out when you light your dumb ass on fire. No, you cannot drink or eat in the 8 hours leading up to surgery.  Yes, bowel prep will have you up all night on the shiatter.  I know. It's not fun.  No, I cannot drug your ass to oblivion just because you want a farking buzz. When you chase me down wanting something for pain Dilauded (by name) when I'm trying to care for an end stage cancer patient (who's in too much pain to cry), I'm going to tell you to get back to your room and I'll be with you as soon as I can.  If that means I'm not going to get a good score on my customer service rating, too damn bad.
While I do see some room for service-based funding, I see a potential for abuse too.  I'm somewhat (sarcastically) waiting for some CEO to decide to cut nursing salary by half and leave a tip jar at the exits for nurses pay.  (Think of all the savings!, We don't have to pay 5% of the US population to do their job, we'll cut out the middle-men of the survey takers, nurses will get direct daily cash pay, they'll love it.  Right.
 
2013-03-24 04:14:37 AM  
All I can say is, if it's a matter of life and death, then someone had better have a damn good product review.
Charles
valplan.com
 
2013-03-24 11:08:22 AM  
"Patient review of medical services?  This is an OUTRAGE!!"

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-24 11:11:48 AM  
scenedecrime.blogs.com

"J'Accord!"
 
2013-03-26 09:56:45 AM  
I was married to a doctor, and i learned one of the sneaky ways that hospitals conceal their mistakes: Latin.

"iatragenic" problems or infections are caused by the doctors' or nurses' mistakes. "I am sorrry Mr. jines, but after the procedure you developed an iatragenic infection" really means "Sorry dude, i guess i should've put on a sterile gown before i cut you open, my bad!"

"nosocomial" problems or infections are caused by the hospital environment. If you catch VRE because the hospital is skimping on replacing the expensive short-lived UV bulbs in their air handler, it is a nosocomial infection.

TL;DR: These two Latin words allow the medical industry to deceive you with the truth.
 
2013-03-26 11:11:01 AM  

Breathe Laugh Twitch: I was married to a doctor, and i learned one of the sneaky ways that hospitals conceal their mistakes: Latin.

"iatragenic" problems or infections are caused by the doctors' or nurses' mistakes. "I am sorrry Mr. jines, but after the procedure you developed an iatragenic infection" really means "Sorry dude, i guess i should've put on a sterile gown before i cut you open, my bad!"

"nosocomial" problems or infections are caused by the hospital environment. If you catch VRE because the hospital is skimping on replacing the expensive short-lived UV bulbs in their air handler, it is a nosocomial infection.

TL;DR: These two Latin words allow the medical industry to deceive you with the truth.


I can think of two other professions that deceive with Latin.

We need to make Latin illegal.

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Habeus Corpus.
 
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