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(The Atlantic)   The Atlantic has very helpfully put together an excerpt of what establishment writers were saying about anti-war protesters in 2003. Note as you read this - the people being made fun of were 100% right, and the people making fun of them 100% wrong   (theatlantic.com) divider line 492
    More: Sick, Iraq War, Iraq, organizations, James Taranto, intellectual honesty, South Vietnam, selections, peace movement  
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10230 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Mar 2013 at 8:29 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-22 05:30:50 PM  
It just makes one want to vomit.
 
2013-03-22 05:42:17 PM  
It just makes one all stabby.
 
2013-03-22 05:53:50 PM  

DamnYankees: It just makes one want to vomit.


2wolves: It just makes one all stabby.


The whole thing was surreal. Being labeled a traitor or terrorist sympathizer simply because you were being rational about the whole thing.
 
2013-03-22 05:56:00 PM  

Nadie_AZ: DamnYankees: It just makes one want to vomit.

2wolves: It just makes one all stabby.

The whole thing was surreal. Being labeled a traitor or terrorist sympathizer simply because you were being rational about the whole thing.


And I was a part of it. I disgust myself.
 
2013-03-22 05:58:41 PM  
Know who else was right?

encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.comencrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com

Suck it "conservatives"
 
2013-03-22 06:04:02 PM  

Nadie_AZ: DamnYankees: It just makes one want to vomit.

2wolves: It just makes one all stabby.

The whole thing was surreal. Being labeled a traitor or terrorist sympathizer simply because you were being rational about the whole thing.


What else do you expect from conservatives?  Watch, if another Republican gets elected President, we'll see this exact same thing again.
 
2013-03-22 06:17:58 PM  

GAT_00: Nadie_AZ: DamnYankees: It just makes one want to vomit.

2wolves: It just makes one all stabby.

The whole thing was surreal. Being labeled a traitor or terrorist sympathizer simply because you were being rational about the whole thing.

What else do you expect from conservatives?  Watch, if another Republican gets elected President, we'll see this exact same thing again.


I am proof people can change. This gives me hope. It causes me to pause and believe others can and do and want to change.
 
2013-03-22 06:42:53 PM  
I suppose they're also the ones gracefully willing to foot the mammoth bill for it all.
 
2013-03-22 07:08:03 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Know who else was right?

[encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 202x250][encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 184x274]

Suck it "conservatives"



Unfortunately, Bush and Co. are not through yet. This invasion and conquest will encourage them to do it again elsewhere. The real purpose of this war was to say to the rest of the world, "Don't Mess with Texas - If You Got What We Want, We're Coming to Get It!" This is not the time for the majority of us who believe in a peaceful America to be quiet. Make your voices heard. Despite what they have pulled off, it is still our country.
Yours,
Michael Moore


The hard part of all of this is his website doesn't have much from a decade ago because it's been apparently scrubbed of most old articles. He does refer to us colonizing Iraq in several articles (presumably in an economic sense). I don't recall bleeding the country of its resources. I don't see how Saddam was less deserving of overthrow than Kaddafi and yet there's little condemnation of our support of that.

The predictions that a global war would break out, terrorists would be stronger, and Bush/Neo-Cons would rule America with an iron fist certainly never came to pass.

I'm probably wasting my time posting this to you any way though.
 
2013-03-22 07:26:35 PM  
I'd forgotten how vicious a lot of those stories were.  during the run up to Gulf War 1.0 I was rather busy and didn't get a chance to really read the news papers or hear from the protesters.  we were prepping for a war and I was in an ELINT unit.  lots of moving around and not a whole lot of information coming in from home.
 
2013-03-22 07:47:41 PM  

Weaver95: I'd forgotten how vicious a lot of those stories were.  during the run up to Gulf War 1.0 I was rather busy and didn't get a chance to really read the news papers or hear from the protesters.  we were prepping for a war and I was in an ELINT unit.  lots of moving around and not a whole lot of information coming in from home.


IIRC, I was all "WOO F*CK YEAH AMERICA" for Gulf 1.0 and "?????" for 2.0.
 
2013-03-22 07:47:52 PM  

Mrbogey: Lionel Mandrake: Know who else was right?

[encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 202x250][encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 184x274]

Suck it "conservatives"


Unfortunately, Bush and Co. are not through yet. This invasion and conquest will encourage them to do it again elsewhere. The real purpose of this war was to say to the rest of the world, "Don't Mess with Texas - If You Got What We Want, We're Coming to Get It!" This is not the time for the majority of us who believe in a peaceful America to be quiet. Make your voices heard. Despite what they have pulled off, it is still our country.
Yours,
Michael Moore


The geniuses are all over the TV talking about what an amazing success the war in Iraq was.  If some horrible 9-11 thing happens again, who's to say there wouldn't be those trying to connect it to Iran in mush the same way?  Hell, even without another 9-11 we've got macho chickenhawks trying to drum up support for a war with Iran.  Thank God Obama won.

And whether you agree with that statement, it is pretty obvious that Garafolo and Moore's predictions were one Hell of a lot closer to the mark than anyone in the Bush administration.

The hard part of all of this is his website doesn't have much from a decade ago because it's been apparently scrubbed of most old articles. He does refer to us colonizing Iraq in several articles (presumably in an economic sense). I don't recall bleeding the country of its resources. I don't see how Saddam was less deserving of overthrow than Kaddafi and yet there's little condemnation of our support of that.The predictions that a global war would break out, terrorists would be stronger, and Bush/Neo-Cons would rule America with an iron fist certainly never came to pass.

What was the final body count in Libya?  How much did it cost?  How long have we been occupying?

I'm probably wasting my time posting this to you any way though.

Not really.  You seem to be the type that learned dick from this fiasco and would be all over it again (maybe...don't really know.  In any case a LOT of people learned nothing, regardless of party affiliation, but definitely more so in the GOP)

Face it, the "terrorist loving, America-hating hippies" were right.  100% right?  Of course not.  But if we (as a nation) had listened to them instead of belittling them and calling them unAmerican...just maybe we would have considered options for a little longer, and...who knows?  I have little doubt that very same Real Americans who were so excited about going into Iraq will be hootin' and hollerin' the next time some dickhead in the White House starts calling for war.
 
2013-03-22 07:50:48 PM  

xanadian: Weaver95: I'd forgotten how vicious a lot of those stories were.  during the run up to Gulf War 1.0 I was rather busy and didn't get a chance to really read the news papers or hear from the protesters.  we were prepping for a war and I was in an ELINT unit.  lots of moving around and not a whole lot of information coming in from home.

IIRC, I was all "WOO F*CK YEAH AMERICA" for Gulf 1.0 and "?????" for 2.0.


I was less enthused about Gulf War 2.0.  I just never thought the President would have lied to get us into another war.  I still don't want to believe it...but there's more than sufficient evidence to suggest that was the case.  I also don't believe Bush bailed out wall street or that our government recently let a bank off the hook for flat out money laundering for half the gotdamn drug cartels in columbia.  so...yeah.  I spend most of my day in a state of shock and disbelief.
 
2013-03-22 08:03:15 PM  

Weaver95: xanadian: Weaver95: I'd forgotten how vicious a lot of those stories were.  during the run up to Gulf War 1.0 I was rather busy and didn't get a chance to really read the news papers or hear from the protesters.  we were prepping for a war and I was in an ELINT unit.  lots of moving around and not a whole lot of information coming in from home.

IIRC, I was all "WOO F*CK YEAH AMERICA" for Gulf 1.0 and "?????" for 2.0.

I was less enthused about Gulf War 2.0.  I just never thought the President would have lied to get us into another war.  I still don't want to believe it...but there's more than sufficient evidence to suggest that was the case.  I also don't believe Bush bailed out wall street or that our government recently let a bank off the hook for flat out money laundering for half the gotdamn drug cartels in columbia.  so...yeah.  I spend most of my day in a state of shock and disbelief.


There is medication for that.
 
2013-03-22 08:03:57 PM  

DamnYankees: Nadie_AZ: DamnYankees: It just makes one want to vomit.

2wolves: It just makes one all stabby.

The whole thing was surreal. Being labeled a traitor or terrorist sympathizer simply because you were being rational about the whole thing.

And I was a part of it. I disgust myself.


You weren't alone. The ultra-clear jingoistic vision of American Awesomeness that they were selling was easy to buy into if you didn't engage your brain. And I was really happy to not engage mine. There are still people here who call me out for carrying water for Powell and Rumsfeld. I did. Not a proud thing.

I never called anyone names, I tried to keep it intelligent and rational.

Somewhere in there I realized I was wrong.

Since then I've tried to argue the sane side of things, to look at everything critically and be as honest as I can about what I'm seeing. It's not as easy to know what's right when you see nuance and complexity.
 
2013-03-22 08:11:47 PM  

Weaver95: our government recently let a bank off the hook for flat out money laundering for half the gotdamn drug cartels in columbia


I seriously missed something. When what who how?
 
2013-03-22 08:15:07 PM  
I wasn't anti-war. I was a bit apprehensive though. The thing that first turned me into an anti-republican was how they were so irrational against anti-war protesters. They never argued with them they just shot them down with cries of "unpatriotic." It didn't help I was reading "The Raise and Fall of the Third Reich" at the time.
 
2013-03-22 08:15:58 PM  
Damn throw away image.

Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war... Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.
Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.
In an interview with Gilbert in Göring's jail cell during the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials (18 April 1946)
 
2013-03-22 08:17:07 PM  

unlikely: Weaver95: our government recently let a bank off the hook for flat out money laundering for half the gotdamn drug cartels in columbia

I seriously missed something. When what who how?


http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/outrageous-hsbc- se ttlement-proves-the-drug-war-is-a-joke-20121213
 
2013-03-22 08:17:53 PM  
And let's not forget Dan Savage.
 
2013-03-22 08:18:24 PM  

Mrbogey: I don't see how Saddam was less deserving of overthrow than Kaddafi and yet there's little condemnation of our support of that.


It probably has something to do with the absence of 10 years of war, thousands of US deaths, and a $trillion bill.
 
2013-03-22 08:19:07 PM  

unlikely: DamnYankees: Nadie_AZ: DamnYankees: It just makes one want to vomit.

2wolves: It just makes one all stabby.

The whole thing was surreal. Being labeled a traitor or terrorist sympathizer simply because you were being rational about the whole thing.

And I was a part of it. I disgust myself.

You weren't alone. The ultra-clear jingoistic vision of American Awesomeness that they were selling was easy to buy into if you didn't engage your brain. And I was really happy to not engage mine. There are still people here who call me out for carrying water for Powell and Rumsfeld. I did. Not a proud thing.

I never called anyone names, I tried to keep it intelligent and rational.

Somewhere in there I realized I was wrong.

Since then I've tried to argue the sane side of things, to look at everything critically and be as honest as I can about what I'm seeing. It's not as easy to know what's right when you see nuance and complexity.


I was caught up in the whole thing and believed the Bush administration. I didn't think Iraq had anything to do with 9/11, but I never doubted they were gunning for us. I mean surely the president wouldn't lie to the nation.

I feel like a complete fool for allowing myself to fall for the bs.
 
2013-03-22 08:22:39 PM  

MorrisBird: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/outrageous-hsbc- se ttlement-proves-the-drug-war-is-a-joke-20121213


the hell?

that's not real, right? That's like the Rolling Stone trying to be the Onion, right?
 
2013-03-22 08:22:58 PM  

Weaver95: I was less enthused about Gulf War 2.0.  I just never thought the President would have lied to get us into another war.  I still don't want to believe it...but there's more than sufficient evidence to suggest that was the case.  I also don't believe Bush bailed out wall street or that our government recently let a bank off the hook for flat out money laundering for half the gotdamn drug cartels in columbia.  so...yeah.  I spend most of my day in a state of shock and disbelief.


Welcome home.  You're among friends now.
 
2013-03-22 08:26:16 PM  

unlikely: That's like the Rolling Stone trying to be the Onion, right?


Google HSBC drug cartels.  It's real.  It sickens me and it's real.
 
2013-03-22 08:35:13 PM  

unlikely: MorrisBird: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/outrageous-hsbc- se ttlement-proves-the-drug-war-is-a-joke-20121213

the hell?

that's not real, right? That's like the Rolling Stone trying to be the Onion, right?


no, it's VERY real.  our government just let the bankers go.  oh they got a fine...which in banking terms amounted to little more than a traffic ticket.  nobody is going to jail and the bankers get to keep their drug money profits.

so this article on the vilification of anti-war protesters kinda resonates with me.  our press doesn't seem to report news anymore, they just follow orders.
 
2013-03-22 08:36:56 PM  
I would have been much more sympathetic to antiwar protesters at my college in 2003 if they hadn't been chanting loudly outside the dorms at 6:00 AM.
 
2013-03-22 08:37:27 PM  

MorrisBird: unlikely: That's like the Rolling Stone trying to be the Onion, right?

Google HSBC drug cartels.  It's real.  It sickens me and it's real.


I was never so glad to see a bank sell than when I saw that my local HSBC branches were being sold to First Niagara. I am so glad to never ever have to be a part of them anymore.
 
2013-03-22 08:39:01 PM  

Krymson Tyde: unlikely: DamnYankees: Nadie_AZ: DamnYankees: It just makes one want to vomit.

2wolves: It just makes one all stabby.

The whole thing was surreal. Being labeled a traitor or terrorist sympathizer simply because you were being rational about the whole thing.

And I was a part of it. I disgust myself.

You weren't alone. The ultra-clear jingoistic vision of American Awesomeness that they were selling was easy to buy into if you didn't engage your brain. And I was really happy to not engage mine. There are still people here who call me out for carrying water for Powell and Rumsfeld. I did. Not a proud thing.

I never called anyone names, I tried to keep it intelligent and rational.

Somewhere in there I realized I was wrong.

Since then I've tried to argue the sane side of things, to look at everything critically and be as honest as I can about what I'm seeing. It's not as easy to know what's right when you see nuance and complexity.

I was caught up in the whole thing and believed the Bush administration. I didn't think Iraq had anything to do with 9/11, but I never doubted they were gunning for us. I mean surely the president wouldn't lie to the nation.

I feel like a complete fool for allowing myself to fall for the bs.


I was still in training in the Army during 9/11 and I had just found out I was pregnant. Scared doesn't even begin to cover it. I knew we were going to war and I was okay with it because I thought we needed to get those bastards who killed more than 3000 American citizens. But when they started gearing up for the Iraq invasion, things just didn't make any sense. Some dude in Afghanistan executes an attack on America, so we should invade Iraq? They were really reaching when they tried to connect Osama with Saddam and most of the people I worked with (all of us were Soldiers) thought it was just an excuse to invade and take the oilfields. We didn't think it had dick to do with 9/11.
 
2013-03-22 08:39:13 PM  

impaler: Mrbogey: I don't see how Saddam was less deserving of overthrow than Kaddafi and yet there's little condemnation of our support of that.

It probably has something to do with the absence of 10 years of war, thousands of US deaths, and a $trillion bill.


Have y'all noticed that this is the line the pro-war crowd uses now?  That we were liberating the Iraqis...?

BULLSHIAT.  We went over because of made-up BS about WMD and "mushroom clouds"

But now that everyone knows that was BS, some people are trying to say it was about liberating Iraq.  And hey, if it's still a shiathole over there, it's their fault!  We did our part!
 
2013-03-22 08:39:17 PM  

impaler: I wasn't anti-war.


YOU WERE JUST ON THE OTHER SIDE!

Sorry, channeling my inner Glenn Reynolds there for a moment.  My bad
 
2013-03-22 08:39:27 PM  
its getting to the point now where I don't feel I can trust CNN or even MSNBC.  forget about Fox news, they're blatantly untrustworthy.  and print media is easily manipulated by the powers that be.
 
2013-03-22 08:40:00 PM  

FuturePastNow: I would have been much more sympathetic to antiwar protesters at my college in 2003 if they hadn't been chanting loudly outside the dorms at 6:00 AM.


Give me convenience or give me death, yes, we know.
 
2013-03-22 08:41:30 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Have y'all noticed that this is the line the pro-war crowd uses now? That we were liberating the Iraqis...?


We did liberate 150,000 of them.
 
2013-03-22 08:41:37 PM  

Nadie_AZ: GAT_00: Nadie_AZ: DamnYankees: It just makes one want to vomit.

2wolves: It just makes one all stabby.

The whole thing was surreal. Being labeled a traitor or terrorist sympathizer simply because you were being rational about the whole thing.

What else do you expect from conservatives?  Watch, if another Republican gets elected President, we'll see this exact same thing again.

I am proof people can change. This gives me hope. It causes me to pause and believe others can and do and want to change.


Well that's all well and fine, but the complex you left?  It's gotten a whole lot worse since then.
 
2013-03-22 08:43:20 PM  

MorrisBird: unlikely: That's like the Rolling Stone trying to be the Onion, right?

Google HSBC drug cartels.  It's real.  It sickens me and it's real.


Just to close it up, HSBC paid something like $881 million in fines, and was accused of laundering something like $670 million.

Not rendering my own opinion here, just recounting what I recall.

// here's where I render judgement:
// if corporations are people, where was the seizure, auction and sell-off?
// DoJ: "That would have been hard, so they just paid a fine."
 
2013-03-22 08:44:02 PM  
That doesn't change the fact that the USA liberated Iraq and destroyed their WMD's bringing peace and stability to the region while capturing the war criminals Phil Donahue, Bill Maher, and Tommy Chong.
 
2013-03-22 08:44:51 PM  

Nadie_AZ: DamnYankees: It just makes one want to vomit.

2wolves: It just makes one all stabby.

The whole thing was surreal. Being labeled a traitor or terrorist sympathizer simply because you were being rational about the whole thing.


All of this.  I don't take any pleasure in being right and not being able to do anything (effective) about it.

/in September 2003 nearly 70 percent of all Americans believed Saddam was behind 9/11.
//sigh
 
2013-03-22 08:46:54 PM  
corporaterights.org
corporaterights.org
www.examiner.com
 
2013-03-22 08:48:23 PM  

Dr Dreidel: MorrisBird: unlikely: That's like the Rolling Stone trying to be the Onion, right?

Google HSBC drug cartels.  It's real.  It sickens me and it's real.

Just to close it up, HSBC paid something like $881 million in fines, and was accused of laundering something like $670 million.

Not rendering my own opinion here, just recounting what I recall.

// here's where I render judgement:
// if corporations are people, where was the seizure, auction and sell-off?
// DoJ: "That would have been hard, so they just paid a fine."


Reading this made me think of They Live. "Golden Rule - He who has the gold makes the rules."

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-22 08:50:10 PM  
farm2.staticflickr.com
 
2013-03-22 08:50:15 PM  

Via Infinito: Krymson Tyde: unlikely: DamnYankees: Nadie_AZ: DamnYankees: It just makes one want to vomit.

2wolves: It just makes one all stabby.

The whole thing was surreal. Being labeled a traitor or terrorist sympathizer simply because you were being rational about the whole thing.

And I was a part of it. I disgust myself.

You weren't alone. The ultra-clear jingoistic vision of American Awesomeness that they were selling was easy to buy into if you didn't engage your brain. And I was really happy to not engage mine. There are still people here who call me out for carrying water for Powell and Rumsfeld. I did. Not a proud thing.

I never called anyone names, I tried to keep it intelligent and rational.

Somewhere in there I realized I was wrong.

Since then I've tried to argue the sane side of things, to look at everything critically and be as honest as I can about what I'm seeing. It's not as easy to know what's right when you see nuance and complexity.

I was caught up in the whole thing and believed the Bush administration. I didn't think Iraq had anything to do with 9/11, but I never doubted they were gunning for us. I mean surely the president wouldn't lie to the nation.

I feel like a complete fool for allowing myself to fall for the bs.

I was still in training in the Army during 9/11 and I had just found out I was pregnant. Scared doesn't even begin to cover it. I knew we were going to war and I was okay with it because I thought we needed to get those bastards who killed more than 3000 American citizens. But when they started gearing up for the Iraq invasion, things just didn't make any sense. Some dude in Afghanistan executes an attack on America, so we should invade Iraq? They were really reaching when they tried to connect Osama with Saddam and most of the people I worked with (all of us were Soldiers) thought it was just an excuse to invade and take the oilfields. We didn't think it had dick to do with 9/11.


I never bought the Iraq/9/11 connection which makes it doubly confusing for me? WTF was I thinking? I temporarily lost my farking mind. Christ!
 
2013-03-22 08:52:49 PM  

FuturePastNow: I would have been much more sympathetic to antiwar protesters at my college in 2003 if they hadn't been chanting loudly outside the dorms at 6:00 AM.


The horror.

The horror.



cdn.theatlantic.com

cdn.theatlantic.com
 
2013-03-22 08:53:24 PM  

duppy: I suppose they're also the ones gracefully willing to foot the mammoth bill for it all.


But it was going to pay for itself!
 
2013-03-22 08:54:07 PM  
In 2003 I was in high school. I remember so kids organized something where you wore an armband or something in protest. I did, and remember being threatened with school suspension for doing so.

This was in the Chicago suburbs (so we're not talking about rural Kansas or something). The whole thing was disgusting then, and it's even more disgusting now that all of the terrible events that happened and nobody seems to care.
 
2013-03-22 08:54:51 PM  
I was for the war until Bush blew off the UN and our allies who were warning us that what we were about to do wasn't smart.

I didn't like having someone who shoots first and asks questions later as President and look at what it resulted in.

This war was a big part of why I became a left-leaning liberal/moderate
 
2013-03-22 08:55:40 PM  

GAT_00: I am proof people can change. This gives me hope. It causes me to pause and believe others can and do and want to change.

Well that's all well and fine, but the complex you left?  It's gotten a whole lot worse since then.


No surprise. The critical thinkers and one's that can reevaluate their positions and admit error have all left. The remaining holdouts are highly susceptible to suggestion and are easy marks for cult-leader-like personalities. It's going to be like Jonestown * 100,000.
 
2013-03-22 08:56:19 PM  
"No Blood for Oil" turned out to be utter crap.

Where's our oil?
 
2013-03-22 08:57:08 PM  
I learned to never, ever criticize someone with a yellow ribbon in this country.
 
2013-03-22 08:58:48 PM  

unlikely: DamnYankees: Nadie_AZ: DamnYankees: It just makes one want to vomit.

2wolves: It just makes one all stabby.

The whole thing was surreal. Being labeled a traitor or terrorist sympathizer simply because you were being rational about the whole thing.

And I was a part of it. I disgust myself.

You weren't alone. The ultra-clear jingoistic vision of American Awesomeness that they were selling was easy to buy into if you didn't engage your brain. And I was really happy to not engage mine. There are still people here who call me out for carrying water for Powell and Rumsfeld. I did. Not a proud thing.

I never called anyone names, I tried to keep it intelligent and rational.

Somewhere in there I realized I was wrong.

Since then I've tried to argue the sane side of things, to look at everything critically and be as honest as I can about what I'm seeing. It's not as easy to know what's right when you see nuance and complexity.


You give me hope for humanity. Same for the rest of you guys who have had the stones to admit you were wrong. It's not easy, but you're doing it anyway. Thanks.
 
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