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(Talking Points Memo)   Gov. John Kasich: I love civil unions, they keep workers in line and protected and...what? I endorsed WHAT? Guys, wait, I think civil unions are really rather gay. What? Oh come on   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 176
    More: Amusing, John Kasich, civil unions, Ohio  
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4256 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Mar 2013 at 9:58 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-22 08:21:00 AM
to be fair, there are days when I have trouble trying to figure out what the hell the GOP stands for too...
 
2013-03-22 08:25:18 AM
Gay rights advocates are hoping to legalize civil unions for gay couples in Ohio through a ballot initiative this year.

It would be pretty impressive if they could amend the Ohio constitution to allow civil unions within a decade of an amendment passing expressly forbidding either gay marriage *or* civil unions. I don't hold out much hope, but I wish them luck.
 
2013-03-22 08:30:17 AM
Teabaggers are going to primary him even if it was an accident.
 
2013-03-22 08:55:33 AM
"The governor's position is unchanged. He opposes gay marriage and opposes changing Ohio's Constitution to allow for civil unions," said Nichols. "He's opposed to discrimination against any Ohioan and, while he may have used the term 'civil union' loosely in this instance, he recognizes the existing rights of Ohioans to enter into private contracts to manage their personal property and health care issues."

assets.sbnation.com
 
2013-03-22 09:22:37 AM
"The governor's position is unchanged. He opposes gay marriage and opposes changing Ohio's Constitution to allow for civil unions," said Nichols. "He's opposed to discrimination against any Ohioan and, while he may have used the term 'civil union' loosely in this instance, he recognizes the existing rights of Ohioans to enter into private contracts to manage their personal property and health care issues."

Wow....
 
2013-03-22 09:47:04 AM
"He's opposed to discrimination against any Ohioan..."

He's doesn't have a farking clue what he supports or opposes. Such is the state of the Neo-GOP where one just parrots the talking points that get emailed each morning.
 
2013-03-22 10:01:29 AM
Logic escapes....
 
2013-03-22 10:02:10 AM
"The governor's position is unchanged. He opposes gay marriage and opposes changing Ohio's Constitution to allow for civil unions," said Nichols. "He's opposed to discrimination against any Ohioan and, while he may have used the term 'civil union' loosely in this instance, he recognizes the existing rights of Ohioans to enter into private contracts to manage their personal property and health care issues."

www.onerandomb.com

Dafuq did I just read
 
2013-03-22 10:03:07 AM
Their Weeners is gold, a true done in one.

One of the toughest things about being a Republican is trying to keep up with all the people and things you hate.
 
2013-03-22 10:03:18 AM
Why does he have a Puerto Rican flag pin?
 
2013-03-22 10:03:44 AM

Madbassist1: "The governor's position is unchanged. He opposes gay marriage and opposes changing Ohio's Constitution to allow for civil unions," said Nichols. "He's opposed to discrimination against any Ohioan and, while he may have used the term 'civil union' loosely in this instance, he recognizes the existing rights of Ohioans to enter into private contracts to manage their personal property and health care issues."


I am a little confused on his point here. Will a power of attorney document fulfill this wide stance?
 
2013-03-22 10:06:12 AM

Weaver95: to be fair, there are days when I have trouble trying to figure out what the hell the GOP stands for too...


Something about max buts.
 
2013-03-22 10:06:47 AM
I like this new Romnian vision of politics where you stake out every possible position on an issue then deny you support any of them.
 
2013-03-22 10:11:13 AM
so, is that the equivalent of pulling out before you make chocolate creampie?
 
2013-03-22 10:12:36 AM
Let's make it simple. Everybody gets a civil union according to the state.  A marriage is a civil union performed by a preacher.   The only advantage to the marriage is societal.  The civil union handles the legal stuff.

Why separate it?  Because Jesus you backsliding bastard.
 
2013-03-22 10:13:27 AM
Maddow had an interesting little segment about this last night. Republicans can't seem to remember their own horrible positions and have to be reminded of them and correct their own statements. Gee I wonder why.
 
2013-03-22 10:14:35 AM
haha dumbass.
 
2013-03-22 10:14:59 AM
I didn't vote for Kasich, and he's not my favorite by any means. But I'm really beginning to suspect that he is the "pro-business, not crazy on the GOP social stance" republican that appears to be mythical in this age of hyper partisism.  I still don't agree with a lot that he has done, but at least he's been sane enough to accept federal dollars on the affordable care act. Of course, even before this latest statement, the tea part is going to go after him in the primaries because of that.   http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2013/03/22/conservativ es -feel-unwanted.html
 
2013-03-22 10:15:32 AM
In the original interview on KyPost.com, Kasich said that "if people want to have civil unions and have some way to transfer their resources, I'm for that. I don't support gay marriage. "

That's pretty reasonable, sure.  Why is anyone compl--

"He's opposed to discrimination against any Ohioan and, while he may have used the term 'civil union' loosely in this instance, he recognizes the existing rights of Ohioans to enter into private contracts to manage their personal property and health care issues."

Ah, because he "retracted", and did it in a way that demonstrates he hasn't the first clue about the law.  Or maybe about what words mean 'n' shiat.  Caboleery.  That thing that tells yer noggin what "enter into private contracts to manage their personal property and health care issues" is one o' dem... deee-figh-nittins, things wot means exactly the meanin' of "civil union" and whatnut, goddemmit.

//There, that help, Governor?
 
2013-03-22 10:17:04 AM

Smeggy Smurf: Let's make it simple. Everybody gets a civil union according to the state.  A marriage is a civil union performed by a preacher.   The only advantage to the marriage is societal.  The civil union handles the legal stuff.

Why separate it?  Because Jesus you backsliding bastard.


How about we make it even simpler. Everybody gets a marriage according to the state. .
 
2013-03-22 10:17:23 AM

Madbassist1: "The governor's position is unchanged. He opposes gay marriage and opposes changing Ohio's Constitution to allow for civil unions," said Nichols. "He's opposed to discrimination against any Ohioan and, while he may have used the term 'civil union' loosely in this instance, he recognizes the existing rights of Ohioans to enter into private contracts to manage their personal property and health care issues."

[assets.sbnation.com image 360x323]


oh it's quite clear. He supports the creation of private contracts but dammit the gubmint ain't gonna help you share your Judy Garland albums. That would be endorsing teh gey and Jesus was quite clear when he said nothing about gay marriage.
 
2013-03-22 10:17:29 AM
"He's opposed to discrimination against any Ohioan..."

HE'S OBVIOUSLY IN FAVOR OF DISCRIMINATION!  YOU SAID THAT IN THE PREVIOUS SENTENCE YOU BIGOTED MORON!
 
2013-03-22 10:17:55 AM

scottydoesntknow: "The governor's position is unchanged. He opposes gay marriage and opposes changing Ohio's Constitution to allow for civil unions," said Nichols. "He's opposed to discrimination against any Ohioan and, while he may have used the term 'civil union' loosely in this instance, he recognizes the existing rights of Ohioans to enter into private contracts to manage their personal property and health care issues."

Wow....


Conservatives think they're being fair because any Ohioan is still allowed to marry someone of the opposite sex.
 
2013-03-22 10:18:21 AM

Sybarite: Gay rights advocates are hoping to legalize civil unions for gay couples in Ohio through a ballot initiative this year.

It would be pretty impressive if they could amend the Ohio constitution to allow civil unions within a decade of an amendment passing expressly forbidding either gay marriage *or* civil unions. I don't hold out much hope, but I wish them luck.


I have been pleasantly surprised about where Americans have moved on this issue in just 10 years or so.
 
2013-03-22 10:19:02 AM

Zasteva: Why does he have a Puerto Rican flag pin?


I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that it is the state flag of Ohio, not Puerto Rico.
 
2013-03-22 10:20:08 AM
Civil unions for all!

BOO!

Very well... no civil unions for anyone!

BOO!

Hmm... civil unions for some, miniature American flags for others!
 
2013-03-22 10:20:15 AM

Madbassist1: "The governor's position is unchanged. He opposes gay marriage and opposes changing Ohio's Constitution to allow for civil unions," said Nichols. "He's opposed to discrimination against any Ohioan and, while he may have used the term 'civil union' loosely in this instance, he recognizes the existing rights of Ohioans to enter into private contracts to manage their personal property and health care issues."


That "clarifying statement" further muddied the issue.

Hey Kasich's office: inigomontoya.jpg.
 
2013-03-22 10:21:12 AM

Smeggy Smurf: Let's make it simple. Everybody gets a civil union according to the state.  A marriage is a civil union performed by a preacher.   The only advantage to the marriage is societal.  The civil union handles the legal stuff.



This is what I think the Supreme Court is probably going to do. Give everyone rights through civil unions and force every state to recognize them but let the states define what marriage is (to keep places like Mississippi happy)
 
2013-03-22 10:22:09 AM

Biological Ali: Smeggy Smurf: Let's make it simple. Everybody gets a civil union according to the state.  A marriage is a civil union performed by a preacher.   The only advantage to the marriage is societal.  The civil union handles the legal stuff.

Why separate it?  Because Jesus you backsliding bastard.

How about we make it even simpler. Everybody gets a marriage according to the state. .


and it seems that the "marriage" is the sticking point. Not gay meself but I am quite happy for the guys I know who can now form a legal bond with their long term partners (I don't know any lesbians well). However, in places where gay "marriage" isn't feasible at this point, I don't think people are served by rejecting a push for civil unions. Get the legal protections and rights first and foremost. Worry about the social connotations down the road if the terminology is keeping you from enjoying what is important. Long story short, I think civil unions are probably more palatable to the less enlightened parts of the country. If "marriage" ain't gonna happen now, get the unions and go from there.

just my $.06

/my thoughts are worth $.06
 
2013-03-22 10:22:34 AM

foothor: Smeggy Smurf: Let's make it simple. Everybody gets a civil union according to the state.  A marriage is a civil union performed by a preacher.   The only advantage to the marriage is societal.  The civil union handles the legal stuff.


This is what I think the Supreme Court is probably going to do. Give everyone rights through civil unions and force every state to recognize them but let the states define what marriage is (to keep places like Mississippi happy)


so what next? giving civil unions to a man and his dog?

/because dogs can legally sign a contract?
 
2013-03-22 10:22:58 AM
"The governor's position is unchanged. He opposes gay marriage and opposes changing Ohio's Constitution to allow for civil unions..."

"He's opposed to discrimination against any Ohioan..."

Heh... What a bunch of disingenuous assholes these people are.
 
2013-03-22 10:23:10 AM

Biological Ali: Smeggy Smurf: Let's make it simple. Everybody gets a civil union according to the state.  A marriage is a civil union performed by a preacher.   The only advantage to the marriage is societal.  The civil union handles the legal stuff.

Why separate it?  Because Jesus you backsliding bastard.

How about we make it even simpler. Everybody gets a marriage according to the state. .


Churches can charge more to perform the marriage.  Overbearing mothers, bridezillas, divorce attorneys, they all need marriages and the money that flows through them.  The whole shebang with the flowers, the drama, the hate, the bridesmaids screwing the groom, the honeymoon, the sex, booze, sex, sex and sex ruined because the bride didn't plan well enough around her period.

It's all about the money.  Marriage is big bucks and I'm a capitalist pig.
 
2013-03-22 10:25:44 AM

Arkanaut: Conservatives think they're being fair because any Ohioan is still allowed to marry someone of the opposite sex.


I truly wish that was a joke, but it's not.  That is exactly what most anti-gay marriage conservatives believe.

In their minds, this is logic.
 
2013-03-22 10:27:33 AM
Too late!  You caught the gay!
 
2013-03-22 10:27:59 AM

Smeggy Smurf: Biological Ali: Smeggy Smurf: Let's make it simple. Everybody gets a civil union according to the state.  A marriage is a civil union performed by a preacher.   The only advantage to the marriage is societal.  The civil union handles the legal stuff.

Why separate it?  Because Jesus you backsliding bastard.

How about we make it even simpler. Everybody gets a marriage according to the state. .

Churches can charge more to perform the marriage.  Overbearing mothers, bridezillas, divorce attorneys, they all need marriages and the money that flows through them.  The whole shebang with the flowers, the drama, the hate, the bridesmaids screwing the groom, the honeymoon, the sex, booze, sex, sex and sex ruined because the bride didn't plan well enough around her period.

It's all about the money.  Marriage is big bucks and I'm a capitalist pig.


^^^
so much this...
 
2013-03-22 10:29:49 AM

Smeggy Smurf: Churches can charge more to perform the marriage.


Aren't churches already allowed to charge you whatever they want? Your "right" to marriage only exists (as I understand it) inasmuch as someone from the state must issue you a license if you meet the requirements - both 18, neither dead; some exceptions allowed for the former. You pay a filing fee (right? Or is this the only license you don't have to buy?), and that's it.

What you pay the church for is renting their building and people. And pomp.

// and ham
// Alvistime weddings are the best
 
2013-03-22 10:33:39 AM

skullkrusher: Biological Ali: Smeggy Smurf: Let's make it simple. Everybody gets a civil union according to the state.  A marriage is a civil union performed by a preacher.   The only advantage to the marriage is societal.  The civil union handles the legal stuff.

Why separate it?  Because Jesus you backsliding bastard.

How about we make it even simpler. Everybody gets a marriage according to the state. .

and it seems that the "marriage" is the sticking point. Not gay meself but I am quite happy for the guys I know who can now form a legal bond with their long term partners (I don't know any lesbians well). However, in places where gay "marriage" isn't feasible at this point, I don't think people are served by rejecting a push for civil unions. Get the legal protections and rights first and foremost. Worry about the social connotations down the road if the terminology is keeping you from enjoying what is important. Long story short, I think civil unions are probably more palatable to the less enlightened parts of the country. If "marriage" ain't gonna happen now, get the unions and go from there.

just my $.06

/my thoughts are worth $.06


The problem with getting 'civil unions' now and 'marriages' later is that as indicated in TFA, the people opposed to civil rights for gays don't want either to happen.  If you're going to get into the exact same fight with the exact same people, why not swing for the fence instead of trying to bunt yourself onto first?
 
2013-03-22 10:35:09 AM

Dr Dreidel: Smeggy Smurf: Churches can charge more to perform the marriage.

Aren't churches already allowed to charge you whatever they want? Your "right" to marriage only exists (as I understand it) inasmuch as someone from the state must issue you a license if you meet the requirements - both 18, neither dead; some exceptions allowed for the former. You pay a filing fee (right? Or is this the only license you don't have to buy?), and that's it.

What you pay the church for is renting their building and people. And pomp.

// and ham
// Alvistime weddings are the best


The state also empowers some church officials to sign off on a marriage form instead of a notary. That is literally the only interaction the church has with the state. Which is why I think it is silly to try and "placate" religious factions with civil unions instead of marriages. The state already has all of the authority in the matter so there is no need to give churches more power by giving them the right to decide if people get a civil union or a marriage.
 
2013-03-22 10:35:45 AM
he recognizes the existing rights of Ohioans to enter into private contracts to manage their personal property and health care issues

That's nice.  Maybe in his next press release he can tell everyone exactly what kind of papers you can hire a lawyer to file which will allow you to force an insurance company or employer to add an un-married homosexual significant other to your policy.
 
2013-03-22 10:35:52 AM
Kasich is douchtastic in all it's many forms.  He would LOVE to be as big a douche as Scott Walker (R-WI) but the state proceedures were set up a bit better and Kasich couldnt instantly ram through every half-assed Koch brothers idea he had and make it stick.

He's still trying to sell of the Turnpike and a couple other things.   He'd also LOVE to destroy most of the public education system in the state - his budget was balanced almsot exclusively by cutting education spending.
 
2013-03-22 10:36:07 AM

Madbassist1: "The governor's position is unchanged. He opposes gay marriage and opposes changing Ohio's Constitution to allow for civil unions," said Nichols. "He's opposed to discrimination against any Ohioan and, while he may have used the term 'civil union' loosely in this instance, he recognizes the existing rights of Ohioans to enter into private contracts to manage their personal property and health care issues."

[assets.sbnation.com image 360x323]


Typical Republican recto-cranial inversion.They aren't just the party of stupid anymore: they've expanded into the willfully ignorant.
 
2013-03-22 10:36:41 AM
I support gay marriage. But isn't a civil union legal by default. Can't two grown people agree to a contract that creates the same relationship as a marriage. Or does a civil union include other rights, insurance, hospital visits, parental, etc..
 
2013-03-22 10:39:36 AM

TrollingForColumbine: I support gay marriage. But isn't a civil union legal by default. Can't two grown people agree to a contract that creates the same relationship as a marriage. Or does a civil union include other rights, insurance, hospital visits, parental, etc..


You and another person can agree to almost anything you want but those other entities are not bound by it unless the state (in this case) agrees that they must be bound by it.

In short - you can call someone your spouse but that doesnt mean the hospital is free to give you confidential information about that person or even allow you in during visiting hours.
 
2013-03-22 10:40:42 AM

TrollingForColumbine: I support gay marriage. But isn't a civil union legal by default. Can't two grown people agree to a contract that creates the same relationship as a marriage. Or does a civil union include other rights, insurance, hospital visits, parental, etc..


If the civil union is identical in all but name, there is no point to using two names, now is there?
 
2013-03-22 10:42:23 AM

theknuckler_33: Zasteva: Why does he have a Puerto Rican flag pin?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that it is the state flag of Ohio, not Puerto Rico.


Ah, that makes sense.

...looks up ohio state flag....

Yep, that's it! Good thing, too. Imagine the uproar if it had been Puerto Rico's.

/I didn't even think of state flags.
 
2013-03-22 10:42:28 AM

Karac: skullkrusher: Biological Ali: Smeggy Smurf: Let's make it simple. Everybody gets a civil union according to the state.  A marriage is a civil union performed by a preacher.   The only advantage to the marriage is societal.  The civil union handles the legal stuff.

Why separate it?  Because Jesus you backsliding bastard.

How about we make it even simpler. Everybody gets a marriage according to the state. .

and it seems that the "marriage" is the sticking point. Not gay meself but I am quite happy for the guys I know who can now form a legal bond with their long term partners (I don't know any lesbians well). However, in places where gay "marriage" isn't feasible at this point, I don't think people are served by rejecting a push for civil unions. Get the legal protections and rights first and foremost. Worry about the social connotations down the road if the terminology is keeping you from enjoying what is important. Long story short, I think civil unions are probably more palatable to the less enlightened parts of the country. If "marriage" ain't gonna happen now, get the unions and go from there.

just my $.06

/my thoughts are worth $.06

The problem with getting 'civil unions' now and 'marriages' later is that as indicated in TFA, the people opposed to civil rights for gays don't want either to happen.  If you're going to get into the exact same fight with the exact same people, why not swing for the fence instead of trying to bunt yourself onto first?


I think the opposition to the notion is cut dramatically if clearly secular language is used. "Marriage" has religious connotations for a lot of people and regardless of whether they should get over their hangups, I think getting the legal protections trumps making a cultural point.

To make an admittedly hamfisted comparison, it would be like slaves rejecting their emancipation because they wanted to be called "citizens" instead of "not slaves". Getting out of bondage is the key to my mind, not what it's called. Though marriage itself is bondage so this is a terribly ironic postscript. *rimshot*
 
2013-03-22 10:43:31 AM

Fizpez: TrollingForColumbine: I support gay marriage. But isn't a civil union legal by default. Can't two grown people agree to a contract that creates the same relationship as a marriage. Or does a civil union include other rights, insurance, hospital visits, parental, etc..

You and another person can agree to almost anything you want but those other entities are not bound by it unless the state (in this case) agrees that they must be bound by it.

In short - you can call someone your spouse but that doesnt mean the hospital is free to give you confidential information about that person or even allow you in during visiting hours.


so do civil unions provide that in states where they are permitted?
 
2013-03-22 10:44:16 AM

LordJiro: TrollingForColumbine: I support gay marriage. But isn't a civil union legal by default. Can't two grown people agree to a contract that creates the same relationship as a marriage. Or does a civil union include other rights, insurance, hospital visits, parental, etc..

If the civil union is identical in all but name, there is no point to using two names, now is there?



"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."
- Dark Helmet
 
2013-03-22 10:44:36 AM

TrollingForColumbine: I support gay marriage. But isn't a civil union legal by default. Can't two grown people agree to a contract that creates the same relationship as a marriage. Or does a civil union include other rights, insurance, hospital visits, parental, etc..


A civil union is usually a marriage but called a different name. Some people think it is a useful intermediary step because people used to say that marriage was sacred but civil unions might be okay but that isn't really true. See: this article. It's also just one "separate but equal isn't" lawsuit from gay marriage anyway.
 
2013-03-22 10:46:45 AM

TrollingForColumbine: Fizpez: TrollingForColumbine: I support gay marriage. But isn't a civil union legal by default. Can't two grown people agree to a contract that creates the same relationship as a marriage. Or does a civil union include other rights, insurance, hospital visits, parental, etc..

You and another person can agree to almost anything you want but those other entities are not bound by it unless the state (in this case) agrees that they must be bound by it.

In short - you can call someone your spouse but that doesnt mean the hospital is free to give you confidential information about that person or even allow you in during visiting hours.

so do civil unions provide that in states where they are permitted?


Yep - that's the basic gist of the entire argument  - these people have not been kept from living together or calling each other whatever they choose (at least recently in most places) but legally they are not a united entity and the rights afforded that recognition.
 
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