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(Think Progress)   Native American lawmaker to anti-immigrant Kansas official: "When you mention illegal immigrant, I think of all of you"   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 194
    More: Amusing, illegal immigrants, Kansas, Kris Kobach, immigrants  
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3822 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 Mar 2013 at 4:46 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-21 01:47:39 PM
OOOH SICK BURN CALL THE FIRE DEPARTMENT
 
2013-03-21 01:58:26 PM
Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.
 
2013-03-21 02:13:58 PM
Everybody came from somewhere else.

A bigger stronger force came in and took the Indian's land. It's happened since the dawn of man, it will continue long after we're all gone.
 
2013-03-21 02:16:46 PM
Republicans think of anyone brown, including Native Americans.
 
2013-03-21 02:17:37 PM

make me some tea: OOOH SICK BURN CALL THE FIRE DEPARTMENT


Is it an Indian Burn? :D
 
2013-03-21 02:17:37 PM
5.media.bustedtees.cvcdn.com
 
2013-03-21 02:27:30 PM
lolzombie.com
 
2013-03-21 02:31:26 PM

netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.


Oh really? You think they should go back to Russia? What about you? When did your people get here?
 
2013-03-21 02:34:32 PM

what_now: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

Oh really? You think they should go back to Russia? What about you? When did your people get here?


It's not only that, it's that the sh#t slugs keep trying to erase standing treaties just by wishing them gone.
 
2013-03-21 02:37:19 PM

netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.


Where's the Smart button when I need it?

Stupid rhetoric is stupid

Sorry Indians. We've massacred you, we've romanticized you and we've also labeled you as savages.

Stop playing the victim and join modern society.
 
2013-03-21 02:41:40 PM
Ok that's not bad.
 
2013-03-21 02:56:28 PM

Happy Hours: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

Where's the Smart button when I need it?

Stupid rhetoric is stupid

Sorry Indians. We've massacred you, we've romanticized you and we've also labeled you as savages.

Stop playing the victim and join modern society.


I think that is the point this person was trying to get across to certain Republicans.
 
2013-03-21 03:08:46 PM

mrshowrules: Happy Hours: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

Where's the Smart button when I need it?

Stupid rhetoric is stupid

Sorry Indians. We've massacred you, we've romanticized you and we've also labeled you as savages.

Stop playing the victim and join modern society.

I think that is the point this person was trying to get across to certain Republicans.


Nice.
 
2013-03-21 03:53:35 PM

netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.


True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.
 
2013-03-21 03:55:09 PM

Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.


What previous peoples?
 
2013-03-21 03:57:30 PM

DamnYankees: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

What previous peoples?


Exactly
 
2013-03-21 03:57:35 PM
Funny, that he thinks that they were the first.
 
2013-03-21 03:58:33 PM

DamnYankees: What previous peoples?


Right? Where's the evidence of that?
 
2013-03-21 04:00:04 PM
Well, this thread went full derp-fest in a hurry
 
2013-03-21 04:00:57 PM

MaxxLarge: DamnYankees: What previous peoples?

Right? Where's the evidence of that?


It must be widespread. Apparently, a lot of people in this thread know about it.
 
2013-03-21 04:06:44 PM

mitchcumstein1: Everybody came from somewhere else.

A bigger stronger force came in and took the Indian's land. It's happened since the dawn of man, it will continue long after we're all gone.


And now, it's the brown people's turn.

*flees thread*
 
2013-03-21 04:09:30 PM

MaxxLarge: DamnYankees: What previous peoples?

Right? Where's the evidence of that?


You ever here that Natives use every part of the animal.  Piece it together man.
 
2013-03-21 04:14:59 PM

I'm not sure there was anything technically "illegal" about it, but still...


www.burnrox.com
 
2013-03-21 04:15:56 PM

mrshowrules: MaxxLarge: DamnYankees: What previous peoples?

Right? Where's the evidence of that?

You ever here that Natives use every part of the animal.   Piece it together man.


I believe in the parlance of our times, it is now: study it out
 
2013-03-21 04:21:01 PM

mitchcumstein1: Everybody came from somewhere else.

A bigger stronger force came in and took the Indian's land. It's happened since the dawn of man, it will continue long after we're all gone.


We didn't take their land. There was lots of land here and nobody was using it. There were no farms, towns, or cities.
 
2013-03-21 04:21:31 PM
sure, the Tohono O'odham Nation of Arizona were the first to ever be in Arizona.

I think the Apaches would like to have a word with them.
 
2013-03-21 04:22:29 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: sure, the Tohono O'odham Nation of Arizona were the first to ever be in Arizona.

I think the Apaches would like to have a word with them.


Sure, that was the point she was making.
 
2013-03-21 04:22:43 PM

Peter von Nostrand: mrshowrules: MaxxLarge: DamnYankees: What previous peoples?

Right? Where's the evidence of that?

You ever here that Natives use every part of the animal.   Piece it together man.

I believe in the parlance of our times, it is now: study it out


I was so close to saying that too.
 
2013-03-21 04:23:05 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Well, this thread went full derp-fest in a hurry


Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatownthe politics tab.
 
2013-03-21 04:32:08 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: mitchcumstein1: Everybody came from somewhere else.

A bigger stronger force came in and took the Indian's land. It's happened since the dawn of man, it will continue long after we're all gone.

We didn't take their land. There was lots of land here and nobody was using it. There were no farms, towns, or cities.


Wut?
 
2013-03-21 04:32:10 PM

netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.


netzencain is a sabre-toothed mammoth!
 
2013-03-21 04:38:58 PM
boy there are a lot of stupid people in this thread.
 
2013-03-21 04:40:30 PM

Calmamity: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

netzencain is a sabre-toothed mammoth!


If you don't live in Olduvai Gorge, piss off you dirty immigrant!
 
2013-03-21 04:49:59 PM

Lionel Mandrake: If you don't live in Olduvai Gorge, piss off you dirty immigrant!


THIS
 
2013-03-21 04:50:15 PM

Lionel Mandrake: tenpoundsofcheese: sure, the Tohono O'odham Nation of Arizona were the first to ever be in Arizona.

I think the Apaches would like to have a word with them.

Sure, that was the point she was making.


I was being sarcastic with my Weeners.

Looks like you don't know about the Apache/Tohono fighting.
 
2013-03-21 04:51:57 PM

DamnYankees: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

What previous peoples?


The first people to cross the Bering Straight 40k years ago were later replaced by another group who then became "Native Americans".  There is still huge debate about the details but it is widely accepted that the current Native people replaced the earlier wave.
Go back far enough and they all came from Europe and before that Africa, so Native Americans and European settlers come from common ancestors anyway.
 
2013-03-21 04:52:57 PM
Also probably about 90% of people who are citizens today relatives came over and became citizens just because they came to the US and stayed long around long enough.

For decades we let anyone in the country and if they stayed long enough the became citizens.
 
2013-03-21 04:53:58 PM
I kind of think it's funny that illegal immigration, in many ways, is just a repopulation of America by the people we call Native Americans.  It's not like many castizos are coming here.  History is all about ebb and flow.
 
2013-03-21 04:54:39 PM

Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.


There is no evidence that there were settled peoples in the US before the natives crossed the Bering straight.
 
2013-03-21 04:55:00 PM
www.politifake.org
 
2013-03-21 04:55:25 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: mitchcumstein1: Everybody came from somewhere else.

A bigger stronger force came in and took the Indian's land. It's happened since the dawn of man, it will continue long after we're all gone.

We didn't take their land. There was lots of land here and nobody was using it. There were no farms, towns, or cities.


Can I use this rationale to claim Yosemite?  'Cause I think that place is beautiful.
 
2013-03-21 04:56:50 PM
If only there were a group of people we could look to who believe that land is not something to own, and thus no one can be deemed illegal for occupying it. Bless this brave squaw for fighting the good fight.
 
2013-03-21 04:57:54 PM
imgs.xkcd.com
 
2013-03-21 04:59:02 PM
White Guilt: The Thread.
 
2013-03-21 04:59:29 PM
Should we have the same immigration policies that failed the Native Americans?
 
2013-03-21 05:00:19 PM

Happy Hours: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

Where's the Smart button when I need it?

Stupid rhetoric is stupid

Sorry Indians. We've massacred you, we've romanticized you and we've also labeled you as savages.

Stop playing the victim and join modern society.


What a big, strong keyboard warrior you are! Hey everyone! Look at the courage on THIS one!
 
2013-03-21 05:01:22 PM

DamnYankees: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

What previous peoples?


Bigfoot.
 
2013-03-21 05:02:45 PM
Considering there were multiple waves of migration across the land bridge, according to most theories at least, the Indian tribes who were here when Columbus showed up were just those whose ancestors won out during that land grab, not necessarily the first.
 
2013-03-21 05:03:31 PM
i78.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-21 05:04:44 PM

what_now: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

There is no evidence that there were settled peoples in the US before the natives crossed the Bering straight.


People frequently ignore science when it's inconvenient.  Refreshing to see a non-Republican do it.
 
2013-03-21 05:04:49 PM
struckbyenlightning.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-03-21 05:05:00 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Lionel Mandrake: tenpoundsofcheese: sure, the Tohono O'odham Nation of Arizona were the first to ever be in Arizona.

I think the Apaches would like to have a word with them.

Sure, that was the point she was making.

I was being sarcastic with my Weeners.

Looks like you don't know about the Apache/Tohono fighting.


I'll thank you to keep your weener to yourself.
 
2013-03-21 05:06:09 PM

jim32rr: [struckbyenlightning.files.wordpress.com image 310x266]


Run out of marinara sauce?
 
2013-03-21 05:07:52 PM
tenpoundsofcheese (farkied: It ain't cheese): I was being sarcastic with my Weeners.

Objection, Your Honor.  Assumes organs not in evidence.
 
2013-03-21 05:09:20 PM

FLMountainMan: what_now: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

There is no evidence that there were settled peoples in the US before the natives crossed the Bering straight.

People frequently ignore science when it's inconvenient.  Refreshing to see a non-Republican do it.


SO.. you have some evidence that the US was settled before the nomadic tribes crossed the Bering Straight? I'd love to see it. A lot of people would.
 
2013-03-21 05:10:02 PM

what_now: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

There is no evidence that there were settled peoples in the US before the natives crossed the Bering straight.


Have you heard of the Kennewick Man? He's an 8000 year old skeleton found in Washington State.  His remains caused an uproar in the Native American community because he was found to not be related to any of the modern native tribes through DNA.  Very interesting findings!
 
2013-03-21 05:10:42 PM
Stop playing the victim and join modern society.

Isn't it weird that when a no-name poster crawls out of the septic tank of the internet to grace us with this kind of content, I don't recognize them at all but I already have them on ignore?
 
2013-03-21 05:10:53 PM
Well in the end folks with DNA of native peoples are taking over via demographic trends which in turn gives them political capital. So much capital that a bunch of Bill The Butcher wannabes are about to rend apart one of our two major political parties in order to futilely oppose them.
 
2013-03-21 05:11:51 PM

raerae1980: what_now: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

There is no evidence that there were settled peoples in the US before the natives crossed the Bering straight.

Have you heard of the Kennewick Man? He's an 8000 year old skeleton found in Washington State.  His remains caused an uproar in the Native American community because he was found to not be related to any of the modern native tribes through DNA.  Very interesting findings!


Turns out that was just Patrick Stewart havin' a laugh

www.greatarchaeology.com
 
2013-03-21 05:11:54 PM

mitchcumstein1: Everybody came from somewhere else.

A bigger stronger force came in and took the Indian's land. It's happened since the dawn of man, it will continue long after we're all gone.


ha-ha-guy: Considering there were multiple waves of migration across the land bridge, according to most theories at least, the Indian tribes who were here when Columbus showed up were just those whose ancestors won out during that land grab, not necessarily the first.


Eddie Adams from Torrance: mitchcumstein1: Everybody came from somewhere else.

A bigger stronger force came in and took the Indian's land. It's happened since the dawn of man, it will continue long after we're all gone.

We didn't take their land. There was lots of land here and nobody was using it. There were no farms, towns, or cities.


Actually according to Canadian and American law, in the Royal Poclamation of 1763, it was clearly stated out which lines were american and canadian and which were each sovereign tribes own land, and that the only way european settlers could live on first nation tribal land was by being purchased by the crown.  Because that never happened the law was broken.  The mere fact treaties are made proves Tribes were nations.  In other words, each tribe or band is a sovereign nation much like Canada or US is, to break those treaties are similar to breaking treaties with Russia or China.

This isn't just a moral issue, it's a legal one, and it's one Canada's currently starting to lose in court, there's actually been a few cases were Aboriginal's couldn't be prosecuted by Canadian judges due to International Law.  It's that serious.
 
2013-03-21 05:15:20 PM

Jackson Herring: Stop playing the victim and join modern society.

Isn't it weird that when a no-name poster crawls out of the septic tank of the internet to grace us with this kind of content, I don't recognize them at all but I already have them on ignore?


But if you use ignore, you end up in the FARK echo chamber.  Or something.  PAY ATTENTION TO MY ALT!!!
 
2013-03-21 05:17:46 PM

born_yesterday: But if you use ignore, you end up in the FARK echo chamber.  Or something.  PAY ATTENTION TO MY ALT!!!


"ignore is for the weak" said every widely ignored fark poster ever
 
2013-03-21 05:19:23 PM

FLMountainMan: jim32rr: [struckbyenlightning.files.wordpress.com image 310x266]

Run out of marinara sauce?


Firewater
 
2013-03-21 05:19:50 PM

raerae1980: what_now: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

There is no evidence that there were settled peoples in the US before the natives crossed the Bering straight.

Have you heard of the Kennewick Man? He's an 8000 year old skeleton found in Washington State.  His remains caused an uproar in the Native American community because he was found to not be related to any of the modern native tribes through DNA.  Very interesting findings!


Yes, but there's no evidence this guy DIDN'T come over across the Berring Straight.
 
2013-03-21 05:20:45 PM
So what she's saying is it's ok to call children who were born in the US illegal immigrants if they had parents who were illegal.
 
2013-03-21 05:21:13 PM

what_now: When did your people get here?


In the 1630s.  Well documented, too.
 
m00
2013-03-21 05:21:16 PM

DamnYankees: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

What previous peoples?


Aboriginal Americans, whatever you want to call them. Apparently, Native Americans we know today are the "second wave" and there were people already here from the "first wave." But we're unclear where the first wave came from.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_of_the_Americas

There was a good TV special on it produced by the BBC a few years back, don't remember the name. But apparently they basically got pushed down to the tip of south america from the people coming across the bering land bridge
 
2013-03-21 05:21:19 PM

netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.


You're not an immigrant when no one is there before you.
 
2013-03-21 05:22:21 PM

raerae1980: what_now: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

There is no evidence that there were settled peoples in the US before the natives crossed the Bering straight.

Have you heard of the Kennewick Man? He's an 8000 year old skeleton found in Washington State.  His remains caused an uproar in the Native American community because he was found to not be related to any of the modern native tribes through DNA.  Very interesting findings!


Has it been proven that he wasn't a time-traveler?
 
2013-03-21 05:22:26 PM
static.prtst.net
 
2013-03-21 05:23:03 PM

rufus-t-firefly: raerae1980: what_now: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

There is no evidence that there were settled peoples in the US before the natives crossed the Bering straight.

Have you heard of the Kennewick Man? He's an 8000 year old skeleton found in Washington State.  His remains caused an uproar in the Native American community because he was found to not be related to any of the modern native tribes through DNA.  Very interesting findings!

Has it been proven that he wasn't a time-traveler?


OH MY GOD HOW MANY HEARTS DOES HE HAVE???
 
m00
2013-03-21 05:23:13 PM

Lionel Mandrake: I was being sarcastic with my Weeners.


Better than being ironic with your boobies
 
2013-03-21 05:23:59 PM

m00: DamnYankees: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

What previous peoples?

Aboriginal Americans, whatever you want to call them. Apparently, Native Americans we know today are the "second wave" and there were people already here from the "first wave." But we're unclear where the first wave came from.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_of_the_Americas

There was a good TV special on it produced by the BBC a few years back, don't remember the name. But apparently they basically got pushed down to the tip of south america from the people coming across the bering land bridge


There is some evidence it was the pacific islanders
 
2013-03-21 05:25:16 PM

raerae1980: what_now: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

There is no evidence that there were settled peoples in the US before the natives crossed the Bering straight.

Have you heard of the Kennewick Man? He's an 8000 year old skeleton found in Washington State.  His remains caused an uproar in the Native American community because he was found to not be related to any of the modern native tribes through DNA.  Very interesting findings!


I think the issue here confusing a lot of Farkers is that there were several waves of immigration across the Bering Land/Ice Bridge when it existed; modern Native Americans living in the US are thought to be descended from a later (obviously pre-Columbian) immigration; if I recall correctly Latin/South American natives are theorized to be descended from a wave even earlier than those living farther North (I'm fuzzy on how many mass migrations there is evidence for total). Kennewick threw everyone for a loop but not appearing to have been descended from either.
 
2013-03-21 05:26:40 PM
Did he leave them red-faced?
 
2013-03-21 05:26:42 PM

Mrbogey: Should we have the same immigration policies that failed the Native Americans?


They had solid policies, just not the ability to enforce them.
 
2013-03-21 05:27:16 PM

DrewCurtisJr: So what she's saying is it's ok to call children who were born in the US illegal immigrants if they had parents who were illegal.


As an anchor baby myself I can tell you that there are people who believe that. The fact that I'm white as the Norwegian snow simultaneously confuses and enrages those sorts. Sadly, I don't even tan so I can't put their minds at ease by being a brown person.

/mom's legal now, thankyouverymuch
 
2013-03-21 05:27:46 PM

netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.


I don't believe that. I think you're just trying to be clever. Nobody thinks of Native Americans as immigrants, because that's ridiculously dumb.
 
2013-03-21 05:28:03 PM
Okay, that's funny.
 
2013-03-21 05:28:20 PM
So according to this thread, if Mexicans would just come over the boarder and start murdering people and then claim their land, it'd be totally OK. Got it
 
2013-03-21 05:30:44 PM

m00: DamnYankees: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

What previous peoples?

Aboriginal Americans, whatever you want to call them. Apparently, Native Americans we know today are the "second wave" and there were people already here from the "first wave." But we're unclear where the first wave came from.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_of_the_Americas

There was a good TV special on it produced by the BBC a few years back, don't remember the name. But apparently they basically got pushed down to the tip of south america from the people coming across the bering land bridge


If those theories are correct, then the "first wave" got a far better deal than the second got - peace treaties, massacres, more peace treaties, massacres...then eventually broken up, isolated and given limited rights inside their enclaves.

Guess when Native Americans in general were given full citizenship rights? 1940. There was a 1924 act that was only effective for those born after a certain date. Otherwise, they had to earn citizenship via serving in the military, severing tribal ties, etc.
 
2013-03-21 05:33:09 PM

Happy Hours: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

Where's the Smart button when I need it?

Stupid rhetoric is stupid

Sorry Indians. We've massacred you, we've romanticized you and we've also labeled you as savages.

Stop playing the victim and join modern society.


Just as soon as the US Government pays full restitution for everything they've done in order to wipe them out.
 
m00
2013-03-21 05:34:44 PM

rufus-t-firefly: f those theories are correct, then the "first wave" got a far better deal than the second got


Well, they're not around anymore. So no, I don't call being extinct a better deal. I remember from the BBC program that they found remains in caves down at the tip of south americans, and they weren't from any mesoamerican culture. They looked more like the Australian aboringals.
 
2013-03-21 05:36:51 PM

joonyer: What a big, strong keyboard warrior you are! Hey everyone! Look at the courage on THIS one!


The last time I ran into an Indian - the feather kind, you know, the North American Indian kind - he asked me if I knew were there was a bar close by

True (not cool) story bro'
 
2013-03-21 05:36:52 PM

Rwa2play: Happy Hours: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

Where's the Smart button when I need it?

Stupid rhetoric is stupid

Sorry Indians. We've massacred you, we've romanticized you and we've also labeled you as savages.

Stop playing the victim and join modern society.

Just as soon as the US Government pays full restitution for everything they've done in order to wipe them out.


We should pay them off, they are not making much progress with the monthly payments from Uncle Sam
 
2013-03-21 05:37:43 PM

raerae1980: what_now: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

There is no evidence that there were settled peoples in the US before the natives crossed the Bering straight.

Have you heard of the Kennewick Man? He's an 8000 year old skeleton found in Washington State.  His remains caused an uproar in the Native American community because he was found to not be related to any of the modern native tribes through DNA.  Very interesting findings!


from wikipedia: One of the most complete ancient skeletons ever found, bone tests have shown the skeleton to be 8410 +/- 60 B.P. (UCR 3476) (ca 7300 to 7600 B.C.) These findings triggered a nine-year legal clash between scientists, the American government and Native American tribes who claim Kennewick Man as their ancestors. The long dispute has made him an international celebrity.

oh snap. suck it, "natives".

/never had "white guilt"
//usa has done way more for the world than natives would have.
///admittedly way more harm too, but i digress.
//cant we all just get along?
 
2013-03-21 05:37:59 PM

Lionel Mandrake: raerae1980: what_now: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

There is no evidence that there were settled peoples in the US before the natives crossed the Bering straight.

Have you heard of the Kennewick Man? He's an 8000 year old skeleton found in Washington State.  His remains caused an uproar in the Native American community because he was found to not be related to any of the modern native tribes through DNA.  Very interesting findings!

Turns out that was just Patrick Stewart havin' a laugh

[www.greatarchaeology.com image 207x267]


I blame the radiation from Hanford causing the radio carbon dating to be FUBAR.

//lives near Hanford
 
2013-03-21 05:40:01 PM

netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.


Might be a hard-sell to Kansas lawmakers who believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old.

/whar landbridge whar?
 
2013-03-21 05:40:14 PM

Dr. Goldshnoz: raerae1980: what_now: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

There is no evidence that there were settled peoples in the US before the natives crossed the Bering straight.

Have you heard of the Kennewick Man? He's an 8000 year old skeleton found in Washington State.  His remains caused an uproar in the Native American community because he was found to not be related to any of the modern native tribes through DNA.  Very interesting findings!

from wikipedia: One of the most complete ancient skeletons ever found, bone tests have shown the skeleton to be 8410 +/- 60 B.P. (UCR 3476) (ca 7300 to 7600 B.C.) These findings triggered a nine-year legal clash between scientists, the American government and Native American tribes who claim Kennewick Man as their ancestors. The long dispute has made him an international celebrity.

oh snap. suck it, "natives".

/never had "white guilt"
//usa has done way more for the world than natives would have.
///admittedly way more harm too, but i digress.
//cant we all just get along?


Actually the Kennewick man seems still the subject of debate in the scientific community. If he is in fact Polynesian, it would support my theory that people got around in ancient times a lot more than we think, they just left little to no trace of their voyages.

/the Solutrean hypothesis is interesting too, though I have my doubts on that one
//We're ALL people. It's 2013 over here.
///Peace and love to all people who return that favor
 
2013-03-21 05:42:10 PM

Dr. Goldshnoz: //cant we all just get along?


Dr. Goldshnoz: suck it, "natives".


suck it, "you"
 
2013-03-21 05:43:43 PM

nekom: /the Solutrean hypothesis is interesting too, though I have my doubts on that one


The theory that Don Cornelius is the father of humanity?
 
2013-03-21 05:43:53 PM
Citing the experience of Native Americans re: whites isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of loose immigration policy...
 
2013-03-21 05:44:20 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: They had solid policies, just not the ability to enforce them.


They had the ability, for a very long time. But they just couldn't get enough of those European goods and were more interested using their guns and horses to fight other tribes.
 
2013-03-21 05:44:50 PM

Jackson Herring: Dr. Goldshnoz: //cant we all just get along?

Dr. Goldshnoz: suck it, "natives".

suck it, "you"


now now, don't get all red faced with anger. here; have a drink and chill out my friend.

intoxicology101.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-03-21 05:46:14 PM

DrewCurtisJr: Crotchrocket Slim: They had solid policies, just not the ability to enforce them.

They had the ability, for a very long time. But they just couldn't get enough of those European goods and were more interested using their guns and horses to fight other tribes.


Actually plagues took care of most of them.
 
2013-03-21 05:48:14 PM
oh yeah, i'm mad, not the guy who actually typed the phrase "never had 'white guilt'"
 
2013-03-21 05:49:23 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: raerae1980: what_now: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

There is no evidence that there were settled peoples in the US before the natives crossed the Bering straight.

Have you heard of the Kennewick Man? He's an 8000 year old skeleton found in Washington State.  His remains caused an uproar in the Native American community because he was found to not be related to any of the modern native tribes through DNA.  Very interesting findings!

I think the issue here confusing a lot of Farkers is that there were several waves of immigration across the Bering Land/Ice Bridge when it existed; modern Native Americans living in the US are thought to be descended from a later (obviously pre-Columbian) immigration; if I recall correctly Latin/South American natives are theorized to be descended from a wave even earlier than those living farther North (I'm fuzzy on how many mass migrations there is evidence for total). Kennewick threw everyone for a loop but not appearing to have been descended from either.


I thought the current understanding was the "first wave" of immigration circumnavigated both North and South America (ie the land was settled by moving down the Pacific coast then later up the Atlantic) while older settled populations moved inwards. The "second wave" was the later arrival of the peoples of the arctic circle. Interestingly this would make native groups on the Pacific more closely related to South American native groups (the ones who remain non-assimilated that is) than native groups on the other side of the US.
 
2013-03-21 05:50:42 PM

Jackson Herring: oh yeah, i'm mad, not the guy who actually typed the phrase "never had 'white guilt'"


lol'd.
 
2013-03-21 06:05:18 PM

Fart_Machine: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

Might be a hard-sell to Kansas lawmakers who believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old.

/whar landbridge whar?


Actually, there is a YEC theory on continental drift, the land bridge and all that "Satanic" scientifical stuff that would dare suggest the world is older than 6,000-8,000 years old. I forget the author's name, but it took him somewhere around 1,000 pages to say "God did it" and that it had something to do with receding water after the flood. I blame my lack of respect for anyone with the title/s "Dr Rev" in front of their name and my inability to focus on anything for more than a few minutes on that book and the brain cells it killed with its vast amounts of WTF.
 
2013-03-21 06:12:21 PM

NostroZ: [www.politifake.org image 640x703]


God told the white man to kill off the native savages.

Who should we trust, again?
 
2013-03-21 06:18:16 PM
Really? It's still amusing? Yawn
 
2013-03-21 06:19:59 PM

links136: mitchcumstein1: Everybody came from somewhere else.

A bigger stronger force came in and took the Indian's land. It's happened since the dawn of man, it will continue long after we're all gone.

ha-ha-guy: Considering there were multiple waves of migration across the land bridge, according to most theories at least, the Indian tribes who were here when Columbus showed up were just those whose ancestors won out during that land grab, not necessarily the first.

Eddie Adams from Torrance: mitchcumstein1: Everybody came from somewhere else.

A bigger stronger force came in and took the Indian's land. It's happened since the dawn of man, it will continue long after we're all gone.

We didn't take their land. There was lots of land here and nobody was using it. There were no farms, towns, or cities.

Actually according to Canadian and American law, in the Royal Poclamation of 1763, it was clearly stated out which lines were american and canadian and which were each sovereign tribes own land, and that the only way european settlers could live on first nation tribal land was by being purchased by the crown.  Because that never happened the law was broken.  The mere fact treaties are made proves Tribes were nations.  In other words, each tribe or band is a sovereign nation much like Canada or US is, to break those treaties are similar to breaking treaties with Russia or China.

This isn't just a moral issue, it's a legal one, and it's one Canada's currently starting to lose in court, there's actually been a few cases were Aboriginal's couldn't be prosecuted by Canadian judges due to International Law.  It's that serious.


Not to piss in anyone's wheaties, but was there any type of event shortly after the RoyalProclamation of 1763 that might have had an effect on that agreement?

/not that there weren't subsequent ones
 
2013-03-21 06:20:38 PM
Holy hell, this thread was morons, right out of the gate.
 
2013-03-21 06:22:24 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: mitchcumstein1: Everybody came from somewhere else.

A bigger stronger force came in and took the Indian's land. It's happened since the dawn of man, it will continue long after we're all gone.

We didn't take their land. There was lots of land here and nobody was using it. There were no farms, towns, or cities.


So all that killing and chasing them off their land didn't actually happen. Nice to know.
 
2013-03-21 06:23:58 PM

thamike: Holy hell, this thread was morons, right out of the gate.


you see americans have done a lot more for humanity than the natives would have also furthermore bleep bloop
 
2013-03-21 06:24:32 PM
Was it Elizabeth Warren?

/drtfa
 
2013-03-21 06:25:30 PM

Jackson Herring: thamike: Holy hell, this thread was morons, right out of the gate.

you see americans have done a lot more for humanity than the natives would have also furthermore bleep bloop


Where's libbynomore2?  Isn't he the expert on this?
 
2013-03-21 06:26:38 PM
I'm pretty jaded.  I long ago lost the ability to drop my jaw at the level of derp possible from a Fark Politics tab.  But god damn if this thread doesn't come close to breaching the walls.
 
2013-03-21 06:26:39 PM

OgreMagi: what_now: When did your people get here?

In the 1630s.  Well documented, too.


Puritans or debtor's prison?
 
2013-03-21 06:27:21 PM
Banksy's contribution

i48.tinypic.com
 
2013-03-21 06:34:14 PM

Ed Grubermann: OgreMagi: what_now: When did your people get here?

In the 1630s.  Well documented, too.

Puritans or debtor's prison?


Sadly, Puritans.  I should hide that shame.  I would much prefer to be a decendent of a criminal.
 
2013-03-21 06:35:11 PM

OgreMagi: I would much prefer to be a decendent of a criminal.


rlv.zcache.com
 
2013-03-21 06:35:40 PM

Jackson Herring: oh yeah, i'm mad, not the guy who actually typed the phrase "never had 'white guilt'"


That was just a red Herring.
 
2013-03-21 06:41:12 PM

hardinparamedic: OgreMagi: I would much prefer to be a decendent of a criminal.

[rlv.zcache.com image 400x400]


As it happens, distant relatives of mine did end up in Australia.  From what I've read, he wasn't a convicted criminal, but only because he volunteered to go as a surgeon instead of being put on trial for highway robbery.
 
2013-03-21 06:49:44 PM
To be fair, there were no Native American laws against immigration.
 
2013-03-21 06:54:54 PM

I_C_Weener: To be fair, there were no Native American laws against immigration.


That's not true. Especially early on if you weren't welcome you had problems and if you wanted to stay around it was on their terms.
 
2013-03-21 06:57:23 PM

Happy Hours: Stop playing the victim and join modern society.


The person who made the statement is a state representative.  Is that modern enough for you?  Or maybe should them uppity redskins just keep their stupid squaws at home tending the fire in the teepee?
 
2013-03-21 06:59:42 PM
That's some nice bigotry, Pocadumbass

/irony
//yay immigrants!
 
2013-03-21 07:01:47 PM

mrshowrules: Happy Hours: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

Where's the Smart button when I need it?

Stupid rhetoric is stupid

Sorry Indians. We've massacred you, we've romanticized you and we've also labeled you as savages.

Stop playing the victim and join modern society.

I think that is the point this person was trying to get across to certain Republicans.


You've won that.
 
2013-03-21 07:02:47 PM

DrewCurtisJr: I_C_Weener: To be fair, there were no Native American laws against immigration.

That's not true. Especially early on if you weren't welcome you had problems and if you wanted to stay around it was on their terms.


Well, that was their fault for not writing it down.  :)

The term for enemy and stranger is the same in many native american languages.  That doesn't mean they had an organized system to criminalize immigration.  Hell, many of them were nomadic.  How would they even define immigration?
 
2013-03-21 07:11:25 PM
Well, goody for him. Too bad that lawmaker can't look at the Rez and other places around this country and see what illegal immigration coupled with the drug cartels are doing to the native peoples.

Large numbers of illegal immigrants have resulted in increased levels of crime on the Reservation. During March 2008 alone, an estimated 15,500 illegal immigrants entered the Reservation. (19) The Desert People now find it necessary to secure their homes because immigrants have stolen food, clothing and other possessions. Sometimes, people find undocumented immigrants sleeping on their porches or in outbuildings near their homes. Until recently, people who lived on the Reservation were able to walk through the desert without fear. Now they have found it increasingly necessary to take personal security measures in order to protect their families and their possessions.
Although these problems are immense, one of the most damaging ramifications of human and drug smuggling on the Reservation is the instant wealth that smugglers offer to people who have lived in poverty and deprivation for generations. The lure of tax free dollars in exchange for transportation, food, water, and shelter has led some tribal members (especially the young) to participate in smuggling. Additionally, for humanitarian reasons, some people have established water stations along well-travelled routes through the Reservation. Whereas these stations save lives, they also draw illegal migrants and smugglers. Water stations are a contentious issue on the Reservation, and families are sometimes torn apart by differences of opinion over interaction with illegal migrants and smugglers.
 
2013-03-21 07:12:03 PM

hardinparamedic: NostroZ: [www.politifake.org image 640x703]

God told the white man to kill off the native savages.

Who should we trust, again?


Well, if you consider plague an act of God, then he did most of the work on his own...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_smallpox#Epidemics_in_the_Am er icas
 
2013-03-21 07:12:26 PM
Oh? Under what codified law?
 
2013-03-21 07:15:09 PM
And, interestingly, this Native American is obviously pretty ignorant about past intrusions from Mexico. Numerous times tribes from what is now Mexico moved into the American Southwest and decimated tribes that existed there.

But it's different when it's brown or red people doing it. Whitey is all together a different thing.

But, hey, a couple hundred years from now his ancestor will be biatching at the ancestors of the illegals about them coming in and ruining their good thing.
 
2013-03-21 07:29:28 PM

Fart_Machine: Actually plagues took care of most of them.


There were many situations where the tribes were more interested on keeping the beaver pelt trade on lockdown than looking at their long term best interests.
 
2013-03-21 07:37:34 PM
The correct response being, "Yeah you're right!  See what happens when you don't control your borders?"

/now back to your reservation
//don't forget your blanket
 
2013-03-21 07:37:38 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Lionel Mandrake: tenpoundsofcheese: sure, the Tohono O'odham Nation of Arizona were the first to ever be in Arizona.

I think the Apaches would like to have a word with them.

Sure, that was the point she was making.

I was being sarcastic with my Weeners.

Looks like you don't know about the Apache/Tohono fighting.


You don't get to accuse anyone about being ignorant. First cast out the beam in thine own eye.
 
2013-03-21 07:39:41 PM

Jackson Herring: born_yesterday: But if you use ignore, you end up in the FARK echo chamber.  Or something.  PAY ATTENTION TO MY ALT!!!

"ignore is for the weak" said every widely ignored fark poster ever


I didn't say that.
 
2013-03-21 07:46:18 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: mitchcumstein1: Everybody came from somewhere else.

A bigger stronger force came in and took the Indian's land. It's happened since the dawn of man, it will continue long after we're all gone.

We didn't take their land. There was lots of land here and nobody was using it. There were no farms, towns, or cities.


Officer, I didn't steal that car.  There were lots of them and nobody was using it.
 
2013-03-21 07:49:14 PM
The "modern" natives just conquered and displaced the more ancient groups.  They're immigrants & land thieves as well, just more historically acceptable. For example, a Gwich'in  elder / historian spent hours regaling me with stories about how when his first people came over, there were several groups already in place (he described them as "tall & blonde", but I'm willing to give that over to artistic license) and the Gwich'in were starving and landless.  All they could do was kill the people there and take their food & homes.  I understand certain Native groups take the stories of their elders as gospel fact, so this must be true.

So, more relevant to this discussion, shut up Native-American lawmaker, you relatively fresh off the boat cock.
 
2013-03-21 07:55:22 PM
descendants...not ancestors...

/7 years of college down the drain
 
2013-03-21 08:02:02 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: descendants...not ancestors...

/7 years of college down the drain


Plenty of people take 7 years to graduate college.
 
2013-03-21 08:03:02 PM

DrewCurtisJr: Fart_Machine: Actually plagues took care of most of them.

There were many situations where the tribes were more interested on keeping the beaver pelt trade on lockdown than looking at their long term best interests.


And what would those long term interest look like? A few white guys didn`t pose much treath, short or long term,  to the Pre-Columbian Native Americans. A plague that is now considered to far exceed the Black Death`s impact on Europe on the other hand... Besides, if up to 90% of your people dies from an unknown decease, anything long term won`t be high on your list.
 
2013-03-21 08:03:43 PM
My old man once said: "We had a war and they lost so it's fair enough. They'll get over it."
 
2013-03-21 08:09:07 PM

jim32rr: Rwa2play: Happy Hours: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

Where's the Smart button when I need it?

Stupid rhetoric is stupid

Sorry Indians. We've massacred you, we've romanticized you and we've also labeled you as savages.

Stop playing the victim and join modern society.

Just as soon as the US Government pays full restitution for everything they've done in order to wipe them out.

We should pay them off, they are not making much progress with the monthly payments from Uncle Sam


Maybe if Uncle Sam actually paid what was owed, and let them handle their own finances for once, would work even better. Currently the federal government owes the various tribes over $100 billion. But since the government decided to put that money in a trust, way back when, to be managed by the BIA, the Indians don't have access to it. The U.S. government prefers to keep them in poverty.
 
2013-03-21 08:20:26 PM
Holy shiat, this thread should be boarded up and condemned.
 
2013-03-21 08:21:51 PM

OgreMagi: what_now: When did your people get here?

In the 1630s.  Well documented, too.


I hope that not all your ancestors came over in the first wave of ships...that's some inbred Jed territory.
 
2013-03-21 08:23:24 PM

mitchcumstein1: Everybody came from somewhere else.

A bigger stronger force came in and took the Indian's land. It's happened since the dawn of man, it will continue long after we're all gone.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history
 
2013-03-21 08:24:51 PM

mordi: And what would those long term interest look like?


I don't know, maybe not being conquered.

A few white guys didn`t pose much treath, short or long term,  to the Pre-Columbian Native Americans.

From almost the beginning there were those who warned against letting the Europeans gain too much influence. And as a few grew into a few too many the desire for trade made them overlook the obvious.
 
2013-03-21 08:47:05 PM

Bathia_Mapes: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Well, this thread went full derp-fest in a hurry

Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatownthe politics tab.


Only place TO go with that source material.  I mean it's a cheap shot, a "technically correct", and a spinning piledriver in one.  None but those so naive or so lacking in self-awareness as to no longer register as human can prop up a GOP talking point after that kind of devastation.
 
2013-03-21 08:48:34 PM

adamgreeney: So according to this thread, if Mexicans would just come over the boarder and start murdering people and then claim their land, it'd be totally OK. Got it


If Mexicans came across the "boarder", overthrew the government, and created a series of new laws under a widely-recognized legitimate government that defined them to be legal, then they would not be illegal immigrants.

This says nothing about morality or being "totally OK" unless you are an idiot.
 
2013-03-21 09:06:33 PM
So is Elizabeth Warren an anchor baby?
 
2013-03-21 09:12:59 PM

OgreMagi: Ed Grubermann: OgreMagi: what_now: When did your people get here?

In the 1630s.  Well documented, too.

Puritans or debtor's prison?

Sadly, Puritans.  I should hide that shame.  I would much prefer to be a decendent of a criminal.


Oh, crap. We're related. :(
 
2013-03-21 09:13:09 PM
Native American lawmaker to anti-immigrant Kansas official: "When you mention illegal immigrant, I think of all of you"

Really? So tell me, Sitting Bullshiat, exactly what country did the European colonists immigrate to?
 
2013-03-21 09:15:55 PM
Discovery doctrine ftw!
 
2013-03-21 09:36:36 PM

give me doughnuts: Native American lawmaker to anti-immigrant Kansas official: "When you mention illegal immigrant, I think of all of you"

Really? So tell me, Sitting Bullshiat, exactly what country did the European colonists immigrate to?


The Iriquois League(AKA the Five Nations), the Aztec Empire, the Inca Empire, etc etc etc.  Just because they didn't have flags or cannons doesn't mean those weren't countries.  Hell, the Mayans/Aztecs/Incas had straight up kings just like the Europeans of the time, complete with bullshiat stories of divine right.  Tenochtitlan at the time of the Spanish conquest was one of the largest cities on the whole farking planet.  Certainly bigger than Madrid.

The rules of the Iriquois Confederacy may have inspired early drafts of the US constitution.

They weren't ignorant savages wearing skins, grunting in the woods---that was the French and Russian furtraders.
 
2013-03-21 09:42:23 PM

mitchcumstein1: Everybody came from somewhere else.

A bigger stronger force came in and took the Indian's land. It's happened since the dawn of man, it will continue long after we're all gone.


social darwinism is sad
 
2013-03-21 09:42:35 PM

DrewCurtisJr: mordi: And what would those long term interest look like?

I don't know, maybe not being conquered.

A few white guys didn`t pose much treath, short or long term,  to the Pre-Columbian Native Americans.

From almost the beginning there were those who warned against letting the Europeans gain too much influence. And as a few grew into a few too many the desire for trade made them overlook the obvious.


The point is, the plague wiped out most of the Native Americans before the Europeans got any influence at all. In fact most of them got the plague without ever having met the Europeans. To avoid that, they would have had to be psychic and stop the Europeans from landing in the New World. Without the plague, the Native Americans would have had the manpower to toss those smelly guys back into the ocean if they got too rowdy. After the plague, they could still raze settlements to the ground, but could not realistically stop the invasion unless they united against them, as no lone tribe had the resources to do it alone.
So, before the plague got to them, the white man was not of any concern, and when the plague ran trough the Native population like a wildfire, survival would be more or less the only concern. Only after that would Europeans gaining influence be of any concern. But most of them still at this point had no reason see the new Americans as a treat to them, so to expect them to see them as the no. 1 threat to their existence, well...  Sure, with hindsight and all that, they should have, but due to the Europeans being from a world they knew nothing about, they could not see the treat they posed until it was to late for them to do anything about it.

So:
1: Native Americans being psychic would, like, totally, save the day.
2: Lacking any psychic NA`s, uniting forces with your enemy to beat up some tourists would be the only rational choice.
3: If failing on both step 1 and 2, boycotting them will fix everything.
 
2013-03-21 09:48:09 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: raerae1980: what_now: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

There is no evidence that there were settled peoples in the US before the natives crossed the Bering straight.

Have you heard of the Kennewick Man? He's an 8000 year old skeleton found in Washington State.  His remains caused an uproar in the Native American community because he was found to not be related to any of the modern native tribes through DNA.  Very interesting findings!

I think the issue here confusing a lot of Farkers is that there were several waves of immigration across the Bering Land/Ice Bridge when it existed; modern Native Americans living in the US are thought to be descended from a later (obviously pre-Columbian) immigration; if I recall correctly Latin/South American natives are theorized to be descended from a wave even earlier than those living farther North (I'm fuzzy on how many mass migrations there is evidence for total). Kennewick threw everyone for a loop but not appearing to have been descended from either.



There is even some evidence that there may have been a similar land bridge to Europe.  There have been claims that DNA recovered at some sites can be linked to people in Southwestern Europe.  I don't know how much weight these claims carry in the scientific community, but they are interesting.

/if you want citation, you've got the web in front of you, do it your damn self.
 
2013-03-21 09:51:56 PM

TheBigJerk: Bathia_Mapes: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Well, this thread went full derp-fest in a hurry

Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatownthe politics tab.

Only place TO go with that source material.  I mean it's a cheap shot, a "technically correct", and a spinning piledriver in one.  None but those so naive or so lacking in self-awareness as to no longer register as human can prop up a GOP talking point after that kind of devastation.


Do not underestimate the depitude of the right wing.

/for instance, I heard Lindsey Graham willfully encourage the continuation of rape and sexual assault in the US military.  It wasn't phrased exactly that way, but it's what it came down to.
Hey Lindsey, the system is broken and sexual predators are actively at work in the military!  Here's a fark load of facts!
Lindsey - Nope, system is fine, boys will be boys.
 
2013-03-21 09:55:10 PM

FLMountainMan: Eddie Adams from Torrance: mitchcumstein1: Everybody came from somewhere else.

A bigger stronger force came in and took the Indian's land. It's happened since the dawn of man, it will continue long after we're all gone.

We didn't take their land. There was lots of land here and nobody was using it. There were no farms, towns, or cities.

Can I use this rationale to claim Yosemite?  'Cause I think that place is beautiful.


If you are a tax paying citizen, then congratulations. You are a proud co-owner.
 
2013-03-21 09:55:50 PM

Bonzo_1116: They weren't ignorant savages wearing skins, grunting in the woods


Have you ever read Undaunted Courage?  It's the account of the Lewis & Clark expedition, by Ambrose.  It's an awesome book.

Anyways, Lewis had a spiel he read to the native Americans that they met when they gave them trinkets and beads.  It was interesting because Jefferson seemed to recognize the tribes as nations in the European sense, but the message of "you're either with us, or we'll roll over you" was quite clear.
 
2013-03-21 09:57:05 PM
I imagine there were a lot of confused people upon hearing that.

"What does he mean?"
 
2013-03-21 10:23:41 PM

mordi: he point is, the plague wiped out most of the Native Americans before the Europeans got any influence at all.


No the point is when the Indians had the chance to challenge the Europeans they didn't. They could have but they chose not to, until it was too late.
 
2013-03-21 10:37:16 PM

DrewCurtisJr: mordi: he point is, the plague wiped out most of the Native Americans before the Europeans got any influence at all.

No the point is when the Indians had the chance to challenge the Europeans they didn't. They could have but they chose not to, until it was too late.


Yes, because they weren`t psychic or genocidal of nature. Hard to blame them for that...
 
2013-03-21 10:41:26 PM
The Native American was an idiot. The first settlers didn't come here as immigrants. Immigration implies foreigners coming to a sovereign nation with laws.
 
2013-03-21 10:46:48 PM
Republicans dont need any new ideas, they already have one.

Its called America.

And they dont intend to share it with YOU!
 
2013-03-21 10:49:02 PM

mordi: Yes, because they weren`t psychic or genocidal of nature. Hard to blame them for that...


LIke I said, they had warning signs and people spoke out, but they ignored them until it was too late. Because it takes a psychic to know trading for cases of whiskey when half the adult men in the tribe are degenerate alcoholics  is probably not the best thing for the future of your people.
 
2013-03-21 11:31:38 PM

DrewCurtisJr: mordi: Yes, because they weren`t psychic or genocidal of nature. Hard to blame them for that...

LIke I said, they had warning signs and people spoke out, but they ignored them until it was too late. Because it takes a psychic to know trading for cases of whiskey when half the adult men in the tribe are degenerate alcoholics  is probably not the best thing for the future of your people.


Okay, let`s say there`s 1000 people in that tribe, and 500 of them are alcoholics. The ting is, the same tribe could, before the plague, have 10000 people, as some tribes lost up to 90% of their population due to it. So, 9000 dead or 500 alcoholics, hard to see whats worst... Even skipping the plague part, which was the subject of the discussion in the first place, the rampant alcoholism occurred in the too farking late stage.

There are 2 ways the Native Americans could have stopped the Europeans from taking their lands. 1: Stopping them before they could transfer the plague (the psychic part), and 2: joining forces after the plague, and before it was to late. Who is the biggest treat to America today? China? Russia? Finland? How many do you think would pick Finland? Sure they can fight, but taking over America? Would you join forces with Iran, Cuba and Syria to stem the tide of the mighty Finnish? That`s kinda how it looked and sounded back then. Not until it was too late did the discover that the Soumi had the backing of the rest of the world.

But, you`re right, boozing away your life doesn`t help. Then again, surviving one of the worst human disasters in the history of mankind gives you a lot to both celebrate and mourn, and you can`t do that without some whiskey:)
 
2013-03-21 11:43:56 PM
Native Americans are a conquered people.
 
2013-03-22 12:02:47 AM

TerminalEchoes: The Native American was an idiot. The first settlers didn't come here as immigrants. Immigration implies foreigners coming to a sovereign nation with laws.


Dont be coy; you know your basically saying "might makes right".
 
2013-03-22 12:18:24 AM

adamgreeney: So according to this thread, if Mexicans would just come over the boarder and start murdering people and then claim their land, it'd be totally OK. Got it


Only if they win.
 
2013-03-22 12:37:33 AM

revrendjim: DamnYankees: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

What previous peoples?

Bigfoot.


Also known as Gigantopithecus Blacki...

/coexisted with mankind for hundreds of thousands of years...
 
2013-03-22 01:49:47 AM
The Europeans conquered them and drove them out. That's not really "immigration" now, is it?
I guess white flight is sort of similar, but the power is still in the hands of the Europeans.
 
2013-03-22 02:11:33 AM

Frederick: TerminalEchoes: The Native American was an idiot. The first settlers didn't come here as immigrants. Immigration implies foreigners coming to a sovereign nation with laws.

Dont be coy; you know your basically saying "might makes right".


Uh, no, that's not what I'm saying at all. I meant what I said. Kinda hard to be an immigrant if you come to a land with no official government or unifying laws. Natives (even though they came from somewhere else, too) need to stop with the rhetoric. Just makes them look stupid.
 
2013-03-22 03:02:29 AM

TerminalEchoes: Frederick: TerminalEchoes: The Native American was an idiot. The first settlers didn't come here as immigrants. Immigration implies foreigners coming to a sovereign nation with laws.

Dont be coy; you know your basically saying "might makes right".

Uh, no, that's not what I'm saying at all. I meant what I said. Kinda hard to be an immigrant if you come to a land with no official government or unifying laws. Natives (even though they came from somewhere else, too) need to stop with the rhetoric. Just makes them look stupid.


The problem with what you are saying is that you are expecting that natives to adhere to a standard that Europeans created.  Native Americans had customs (some might say laws) that they believed in and followed.  Native Americans had Chiefs and subordinates (some might say government).  Just because they didnt use the same terminology as Europeans doesnt make it invalid.

The only reason it played out the way it did was because the Europeans were better at war.  Hence "might makes right".
 
2013-03-22 07:13:47 AM

Frederick: TerminalEchoes: Frederick: TerminalEchoes: The Native American was an idiot. The first settlers didn't come here as immigrants. Immigration implies foreigners coming to a sovereign nation with laws.

Dont be coy; you know your basically saying "might makes right".

Uh, no, that's not what I'm saying at all. I meant what I said. Kinda hard to be an immigrant if you come to a land with no official government or unifying laws. Natives (even though they came from somewhere else, too) need to stop with the rhetoric. Just makes them look stupid.

The problem with what you are saying is that you are expecting that natives to adhere to a standard that Europeans created.  Native Americans had customs (some might say laws) that they believed in and followed.  Native Americans had Chiefs and subordinates (some might say government).  Just because they didnt use the same terminology as Europeans doesnt make it invalid.

The only reason it played out the way it did was because the Europeans were better at war.  Hence "might makes right".


The fact is that the "natives" that were here when Europeans came did the exact same thing to the previous Natives.

The difference between the US and the ranting of a "Native" who is butt hurt over europeans in the US is that we do have the power to control who enters our border.
 
2013-03-22 08:02:24 AM

jim32rr: Rwa2play: Happy Hours: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

Where's the Smart button when I need it?

Stupid rhetoric is stupid

Sorry Indians. We've massacred you, we've romanticized you and we've also labeled you as savages.

Stop playing the victim and join modern society.

Just as soon as the US Government pays full restitution for everything they've done in order to wipe them out.

We should pay them off, they are not making much progress with the monthly payments from Uncle Sam


Yeah...and the non-natives had A LOT to do with that.
 
2013-03-22 08:48:43 AM

liam76: Frederick: TerminalEchoes: Frederick: TerminalEchoes: The Native American was an idiot. The first settlers didn't come here as immigrants. Immigration implies foreigners coming to a sovereign nation with laws.

Dont be coy; you know your basically saying "might makes right".

Uh, no, that's not what I'm saying at all. I meant what I said. Kinda hard to be an immigrant if you come to a land with no official government or unifying laws. Natives (even though they came from somewhere else, too) need to stop with the rhetoric. Just makes them look stupid.

The problem with what you are saying is that you are expecting that natives to adhere to a standard that Europeans created.  Native Americans had customs (some might say laws) that they believed in and followed.  Native Americans had Chiefs and subordinates (some might say government).  Just because they didnt use the same terminology as Europeans doesnt make it invalid.

The only reason it played out the way it did was because the Europeans were better at war.  Hence "might makes right".

The fact is that the "natives" that were here when Europeans came did the exact same thing to the previous Natives.

The difference between the US and the ranting of a "Native" who is butt hurt over europeans in the US is that we do have the power to control who enters our border.


Clearly Mars is an orange because it's, y'know, orange...

Context, anachronism, equivalency they're like kryptonite to you pituary, crypto-fundamentalist retards, aren't they?
 
2013-03-22 08:59:11 AM

Mrfusticle: Context, anachronism, equivalency they're like kryptonite to you pituary, crypto-fundamentalist retards, aren't they?


What is the context that makes "Native" extermination of previous native ok, but bad when europeans do it?

Or are you one of those morons who believe that Native americans were all one peopel and they never opressed, fought or exterminated other groups?
 
2013-03-22 09:03:53 AM
Ooh.. tangent!
Don't think I mentioned NAs in my post .. nice try though.

I know! Why doesn't the US invade Mexico .. solve the drug peroblem and all that.. I seriously doubt they could "control their borders" against the US army...

...or is that a stupid point completely out of context?
 
2013-03-22 09:16:46 AM

Mrfusticle: Ooh.. tangent!
Don't think I mentioned NAs in my post .. nice try though.


How is that a tangent?  It was the main point of the post you responded to.


Either you were critiquing my stance on NA's or you are a moron throwing out insults completely unrealted to the posts you are responding to.
 
2013-03-22 09:31:24 AM

liam76: Mrfusticle: Ooh.. tangent!
Don't think I mentioned NAs in my post .. nice try though.

How is that a tangent?  It was the main point of the post you responded to.


Either you were critiquing my stance on NA's or you are a moron throwing out insults completely unrealted to the posts you are responding to.


If the shoe fits....
 
2013-03-22 09:39:46 AM
I think most here missed her point altogether. Not terribly surprising as nuance isn't handled well by many folks. If you think she was playing the victim and whining about the white man taking her land you are an idiot.
 
2013-03-22 10:08:12 AM

nocturnal001: I think most here missed her point altogether. Not terribly surprising as nuance isn't handled well by many folks. If you think she was playing the victim and whining about the white man taking her land you are an idiot.


she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.
 
2013-03-22 11:00:31 AM

liam76: Mrfusticle: Ooh.. tangent!
Don't think I mentioned NAs in my post .. nice try though.

How is that a tangent?  It was the main point of the post you responded to.


Either you were critiquing my stance on NA's or you are a moron throwing out insults completely unrealted to the posts you are responding to.



No, I wasn't critiquing your NA stance.. It was a more general observation about the lack of nuance to critical thinking types like you suffer from... Eg: "the power to control who enters our border. " when talking about 400 year old nomadic tribes and the east coast of the United States.

It's much like the Second Amendment nonsense.. You have no concept of time altering precepts.. Every "truth" is universal and eternal... can't imagine where you get it from.
 
2013-03-22 11:28:39 AM
Oh, so they natives had laws in place that addressed immigration or is this just another one of those attempts at invoking more emotional bullshiat from the bleeding hearts out there?
 
2013-03-22 11:29:35 AM
/goddammit, I should proofread before hitting send....
 
2013-03-22 11:29:58 AM

skullkrusher: nocturnal001: I think most here missed her point altogether. Not terribly surprising as nuance isn't handled well by many folks. If you think she was playing the victim and whining about the white man taking her land you are an idiot.

she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.


You are making my point exactly.  As you probably didn't RTA, and instead choose to believe that she is some kind of crazed anti-white crusader who thinks whites are illegals I'll help out.  As I don't see any record of her putting forth legislation to deport whites, it's only reasonable to think that she was responding to a bunch of political grandstanding with a flippant remark highlighting that everyone in the US was an immigrant at some point.

Or your take away can be this she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.

It's up to you really.
 
2013-03-22 11:42:37 AM

nocturnal001: skullkrusher: nocturnal001: I think most here missed her point altogether. Not terribly surprising as nuance isn't handled well by many folks. If you think she was playing the victim and whining about the white man taking her land you are an idiot.

she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.

You are making my point exactly.  As you probably didn't RTA, and instead choose to believe that she is some kind of crazed anti-white crusader who thinks whites are illegals I'll help out.  As I don't see any record of her putting forth legislation to deport whites, it's only reasonable to think that she was responding to a bunch of political grandstanding with a flippant remark highlighting that everyone in the US was an immigrant at some point.

Or your take away can be this she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.

It's up to you really.


I read TFA. Guy wants to stop allowing kids of illegal residents to have in-state tuition at state universities. She says "I think it's funny Mr. Kobach, because when you mention illegal immigrant, I think of all of you"

There's not much nuance to it at all. She didn't say "we were all immigrants at one point" or "these people deserve the opportunity that your ancestors had". No, she hears the term "illegal immigrant" and thinks of "all of [them]". It was a stupid thing to say. I haven't said anything about her being a crazed anti-white crusader. I think she made a foolish remark that doesn't even make any farking sense.
 
2013-03-22 11:47:48 AM
Considering science theorizes that 'life' started in now-whats-called-the-middle-east, wouldn't 'Native' Americans be immigrants also? Not that it matter because they are a conquered people.
 
2013-03-22 12:27:02 PM

Mrfusticle: liam76: Mrfusticle: Ooh.. tangent!
Don't think I mentioned NAs in my post .. nice try though.

How is that a tangent? It was the main point of the post you responded to.


Either you were critiquing my stance on NA's or you are a moron throwing out insults completely unrealted to the posts you are responding to.


No, I wasn't critiquing your NA stance..



Got it.  So the underlined applies.

It was a more general observation about the lack of nuance to critical thinking types like you suffer from... Eg: "the power to control who enters our border. " when talking about 400 year old nomadic tribes and the east coast of the United States.

What type am I?  Please let me know what other position you think I hold.

As far as lack of nuance, look in the mirror.  I don't expect themt o have that power, nor do I think they shoudl have.  Just pointing out they have no moral high ground on this.  If they had the power to keep europeans out, they would have.
 
2013-03-22 12:38:15 PM
That was the second best burn..
The best burn...we own YOUR land....have for some time now. Get over it!
 
2013-03-22 12:40:53 PM

skullkrusher: nocturnal001: skullkrusher: nocturnal001: I think most here missed her point altogether. Not terribly surprising as nuance isn't handled well by many folks. If you think she was playing the victim and whining about the white man taking her land you are an idiot.

she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.

You are making my point exactly.  As you probably didn't RTA, and instead choose to believe that she is some kind of crazed anti-white crusader who thinks whites are illegals I'll help out.  As I don't see any record of her putting forth legislation to deport whites, it's only reasonable to think that she was responding to a bunch of political grandstanding with a flippant remark highlighting that everyone in the US was an immigrant at some point.

Or your take away can be this she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.

It's up to you really.

I read TFA. Guy wants to stop allowing kids of illegal residents to have in-state tuition at state universities. She says "I think it's funny Mr. Kobach, because when you mention illegal immigrant, I think of all of you"

There's not much nuance to it at all. She didn't say "we were all immigrants at one point" or "these people deserve the opportunity that your ancestors had". No, she hears the term "illegal immigrant" and thinks of "all of [them]". It was a stupid thing to say. I haven't said anything about her being a crazed anti-white crusader. I think she made a foolish remark that doesn't even make any farking sense.


Saying her comment was pointless or stupid is fine.  People seem to translate that into "teh reverse racism1".  This is the first I've ever heard of her, could be a total retard for all I (we?) know.
 
2013-03-22 01:00:07 PM

nocturnal001: skullkrusher: nocturnal001: skullkrusher: nocturnal001: I think most here missed her point altogether. Not terribly surprising as nuance isn't handled well by many folks. If you think she was playing the victim and whining about the white man taking her land you are an idiot.

she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.

You are making my point exactly.  As you probably didn't RTA, and instead choose to believe that she is some kind of crazed anti-white crusader who thinks whites are illegals I'll help out.  As I don't see any record of her putting forth legislation to deport whites, it's only reasonable to think that she was responding to a bunch of political grandstanding with a flippant remark highlighting that everyone in the US was an immigrant at some point.

Or your take away can be this she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.

It's up to you really.

I read TFA. Guy wants to stop allowing kids of illegal residents to have in-state tuition at state universities. She says "I think it's funny Mr. Kobach, because when you mention illegal immigrant, I think of all of you"

There's not much nuance to it at all. She didn't say "we were all immigrants at one point" or "these people deserve the opportunity that your ancestors had". No, she hears the term "illegal immigrant" and thinks of "all of [them]". It was a stupid thing to say. I haven't said anything about her being a crazed anti-white crusader. I think she made a foolish remark that doesn't even make any farking sense.

Saying her comment was pointless or stupid is fine.  People seem to translate that into "teh reverse racism1".  This is the first I've ever heard of her, could be a total retard for all I (we?) know.


never heard of her either. I don't see much difference between what she said and saying the same of other groups.

"When I hear 'illegal immigration', I think of all of you Mexicans".

Incredibly stupid. "Reverse racism" is a stupid term and the word "racism" is itself often misused. This is plain old bigotry and ignorance.
 
2013-03-22 01:29:22 PM

skullkrusher: nocturnal001: skullkrusher: nocturnal001: skullkrusher: nocturnal001: I think most here missed her point altogether. Not terribly surprising as nuance isn't handled well by many folks. If you think she was playing the victim and whining about the white man taking her land you are an idiot.

she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.

You are making my point exactly.  As you probably didn't RTA, and instead choose to believe that she is some kind of crazed anti-white crusader who thinks whites are illegals I'll help out.  As I don't see any record of her putting forth legislation to deport whites, it's only reasonable to think that she was responding to a bunch of political grandstanding with a flippant remark highlighting that everyone in the US was an immigrant at some point.

Or your take away can be this she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.

It's up to you really.

I read TFA. Guy wants to stop allowing kids of illegal residents to have in-state tuition at state universities. She says "I think it's funny Mr. Kobach, because when you mention illegal immigrant, I think of all of you"

There's not much nuance to it at all. She didn't say "we were all immigrants at one point" or "these people deserve the opportunity that your ancestors had". No, she hears the term "illegal immigrant" and thinks of "all of [them]". It was a stupid thing to say. I haven't said anything about her being a crazed anti-white crusader. I think she made a foolish remark that doesn't even make any farking sense.

Saying her comment was pointless or stupid is fine.  People seem to translate that into "teh reverse racism1".  This is the first I've ever heard of her, could be a total retard for all I (we?) know.

never heard of her either. I don't see much difference between what she said and saying the same of other groups.

"When I hear 'illegal immigration', I think of all of you Mexi ...


I agree on the "reverse" racism thing at least.  It's just racism, no matter who it is directed against.  Judging somebody by their skin/ethnicity or acting on that judgement is what I think racism is.

If she were smart she would have taken the moral high ground and said something like "Look, I could sit here and claim that white people were the illegal immigrants in this country, but I won't do that.  Banning children who attended public schools from receiving in state tuition punishes people that have lived here blah blah etc."
 
2013-03-22 01:49:59 PM

nocturnal001: If she were smart she would have taken the moral high ground and said something like "Look, I could sit here and claim that white people were the illegal immigrants in this country, but I won't do that. Banning children who attended public schools from receiving in state tuition punishes people that have lived here blah blah etc."


that would still be stupid because there was nothing "illegal" about Euros coming to the US. Also, it's 2012. Even if this dude's ancestors came over on the Mayflower or took part in the conquest of the West, "thinking" of him and others like him when hearing the term "illegal immigration" makes her a jackass.
 
2013-03-22 02:09:55 PM

Bonzo_1116: give me doughnuts: Native American lawmaker to anti-immigrant Kansas official: "When you mention illegal immigrant, I think of all of you"

Really? So tell me, Sitting Bullshiat, exactly what country did the European colonists immigrate to?

The Iriquois League(AKA the Five Nations), the Aztec Empire, the Inca Empire, etc etc etc.  Just because they didn't have flags or cannons doesn't mean those weren't countries.  Hell, the Mayans/Aztecs/Incas had straight up kings just like the Europeans of the time, complete with bullshiat stories of divine right.  Tenochtitlan at the time of the Spanish conquest was one of the largest cities on the whole farking planet.  Certainly bigger than Madrid.

The rules of the Iriquois Confederacy may have inspired early drafts of the US constitution.

They weren't ignorant savages wearing skins, grunting in the woods---that was the French and Russian furtraders.


Those aren't countries that the Europeans immigrated to, those were countries that the Europeans conquered.
 
2013-03-22 05:05:02 PM

TerminalEchoes: The Native American was an idiot.


Spoken by a man of experience in being an idiot.
 
2013-03-22 05:19:07 PM
NostroZ: [www.politifake.org image 640x703]

Fighting terrorism since 1492 is a good one.
 
2013-03-23 01:31:37 AM
Aaaaaaaaaaand it's pretty much precisely the sort of derp in this thread why my ancestors pretty much passed themselves as "Black Dutch" and "Black Irish" after they and a goodly number of their neighbours were subjected to the first incident that is considered to meet the modern crime against humanity known as "ethnic cleansing".  (Specifically, a good number of my relatives' neighbours who were ethnically cleansed all the way the hell to Oklahoma in the middle of winter in 1838 because gold was found in Dahlonega.)

I will note, as an aside, that this was after said ancestors became so Westernised that they even earned the cute little nickname of being one of the "Five Civilised Tribes" (right down to having Christian churches, dressing and holding parliamentary government like Proper White Folks, and even having a particularly clever guy by the name of Sikwayi--later munged to "Sequoyah"--invent a functional syllabary for their language...of note, Sikwayi is exactly one of FOUR people in human history that can be said to have invented a writing system wholescale for his primary language, being among such distinguished company as King Sejong the Great of Korea).

In fact, they were SO very Westernised that they had cottoned onto the concept of a "Legal System" and actually set the actual precedent in the US Supreme Court that First Nations are considered separate dependent nations with their own legal systems and laws when they tried to sue the state of Georgia over what was becoming a major crisis of a shiatload of very heavily armed Illegal Alien Rednecks invading their land wholescale and even burning people out of their homes and committing what we would refer to nowadays as Major Human Rights Violations.  (Pretty much said Illegal Alien Rednecks were actually committing all those depredations that the Right Wing Press likes to accuse the undocumented folks coming in from Guadalajara of doing.)

Alas, this did not stop the US Government (and particularly Andy Jackson, who really liked the idea of having his own US Mint in Dahlonega) from signing a bogus treaty with someone who wasn't even legally recognised as the head of the Cherokee government even by US law (it'd be roughly equivalent to us signing, oh, a treaty with one of those really rabid far-right "West Bank Jewish Settlement" kibbutzim granting Israel the legal right to own everything in the Middle East from Istanbul to Cairo to Riyadh under the claim that they were the legitimate government of "Greater Israel") and then proceeding to use this as an excuse to ethnically cleanse my ancestors the hell to Oklahoma.  (Yes, alas, the US Government got their damn mint.  And promptly closed it down about ten years later after the gold ran out.)

Unfortunately, my ancestors had not quite been introduced to the concept of Unitary Government, which was even a rare thing among the White Folks of the time (pretty much ever since George VII started having minor fits of psychosis and Parliament stepped in and the British monarch became a constitutional monarch with limited powers...ironically, this act,(and the subsequent acts of making the Colonies Pay For Their Own Damn Defense Against The French And Haudenosee without formally granting them a landing or twelve in Parliament) being pretty much the precipitating act leading to the Revolutionary War).

And of note--there's a fair amount of evidence, both anthropological and via oral history, that indicates that the state of my ancestors circa 1600ish (which even then had a parliamentary government system with representative government by city-states and a central capital referred to as a "mother town" as well as the equivalent of a Prime Minister for peacetime issues and an equivalent of a Secretary of Defense for wartime issues--both elected by regular parliamentary election) was--even as relatively civilised as they were then--a temporary embarassment; it's thought that at least some temple mound structures could be linked (a la the Natchez Nation, probably the last of the Mound People to be documented in their prime in the 1700s) and there is a story of how there once was a theocratic system of government (a la the Natchez) that was systematically overthrown--and that the parliamentary system was set up shortly before the Spanish stumbled into their country in the mid-1500s.  DeSoto actually ran into some of my ancestors, most likely. :D

(Interestingly, the surviving Natchez ended up becoming citizens of the nation of my ancestors, among others...after we gave them refugee status.  Oh, yes...at least the country of my ancestors DID have a fairly robust system of asylum and refugee status (and adoption of citizenship into the nation) for quite some time before the Westernisation started in earnest.)

/frankly saw the lawmaker's comment the same way that NDNs have ha-ha-only-serious commented re white folks screaming "OH NOES TEH ILLEGALZ!!!111one!" pretty much since people started panicking about those OMFG IRISH PAPISTS OH NOES
//which is to say, "STFU, sit down and drink your goddamn tea, y'all tried outright ethnic cleansing with us and somehow we're still around, and I don't see Jorge pretty much burning down your homes and forcing you to Bumfark, Saskatchewan at gunpoint.  Quit being such a goddamn baby"
 
2013-03-23 03:49:14 AM
Considering what happened to the Native Americans, comparing illegal immigration to the European colonization of the Americas makes a pretty bad pro-immigration point.
 
2013-03-23 06:45:56 PM

Great Porn Dragon: Aaaaaaaaaaand it's pretty much precisely the sort of derp in this thread why my ancestors pretty much passed themselves as "Black Dutch" and "Black Irish" after they and a goodly number of their neighbours were subjected to the first incident that is considered to meet the modern crime against humanity known as "ethnic cleansing".  (Specifically, a good number of my relatives' neighbours who were ethnically cleansed all the way the hell to Oklahoma in the middle of winter in 1838 because gold was found in Dahlonega.)

I will note, as an aside, that this was after said ancestors became so Westernised that they even earned the cute little nickname of being one of the "Five Civilised Tribes" (right down to having Christian churches, dressing and holding parliamentary government like Proper White Folks, and even having a particularly clever guy by the name of Sikwayi--later munged to "Sequoyah"--invent a functional syllabary for their language...of note, Sikwayi is exactly one of FOUR people in human history that can be said to have invented a writing system wholescale for his primary language, being among such distinguished company as King Sejong the Great of Korea).

In fact, they were SO very Westernised that they had cottoned onto the concept of a "Legal System" and actually set the actual precedent in the US Supreme Court that First Nations are considered separate dependent nations with their own legal systems and laws when they tried to sue the state of Georgia over what was becoming a major crisis of a shiatload of very heavily armed Illegal Alien Rednecks invading their land wholescale and even burning people out of their homes and committing what we would refer to nowadays as Major Human Rights Violations.  (Pretty much said Illegal Alien Rednecks were actually committing all those depredations that the Right Wing Press likes to accuse the undocumented folks coming in from Guadalajara of doing.)

Alas, this did not stop the US Government (and particularly Andy ...


If we had known what whiny biatches their descendents would turn out to be, we'd have stepped up the genocide efforts a little and had the Trail lead over a cliff.
 
2013-03-24 01:27:40 AM

Oldiron_79: NostroZ: [www.politifake.org image 640x703]

Fighting terrorism since 1492 is a good one.


Yeah, I basically showed up to make sure this was posted and somehow ended up staying for the trainwreck that is this thread.
 
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