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(Think Progress)   Native American lawmaker to anti-immigrant Kansas official: "When you mention illegal immigrant, I think of all of you"   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 194
    More: Amusing, illegal immigrants, Kansas, Kris Kobach, immigrants  
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3816 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 Mar 2013 at 4:46 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-21 09:55:10 PM

FLMountainMan: Eddie Adams from Torrance: mitchcumstein1: Everybody came from somewhere else.

A bigger stronger force came in and took the Indian's land. It's happened since the dawn of man, it will continue long after we're all gone.

We didn't take their land. There was lots of land here and nobody was using it. There were no farms, towns, or cities.

Can I use this rationale to claim Yosemite?  'Cause I think that place is beautiful.


If you are a tax paying citizen, then congratulations. You are a proud co-owner.
 
2013-03-21 09:55:50 PM

Bonzo_1116: They weren't ignorant savages wearing skins, grunting in the woods


Have you ever read Undaunted Courage?  It's the account of the Lewis & Clark expedition, by Ambrose.  It's an awesome book.

Anyways, Lewis had a spiel he read to the native Americans that they met when they gave them trinkets and beads.  It was interesting because Jefferson seemed to recognize the tribes as nations in the European sense, but the message of "you're either with us, or we'll roll over you" was quite clear.
 
2013-03-21 09:57:05 PM
I imagine there were a lot of confused people upon hearing that.

"What does he mean?"
 
2013-03-21 10:23:41 PM

mordi: he point is, the plague wiped out most of the Native Americans before the Europeans got any influence at all.


No the point is when the Indians had the chance to challenge the Europeans they didn't. They could have but they chose not to, until it was too late.
 
2013-03-21 10:37:16 PM

DrewCurtisJr: mordi: he point is, the plague wiped out most of the Native Americans before the Europeans got any influence at all.

No the point is when the Indians had the chance to challenge the Europeans they didn't. They could have but they chose not to, until it was too late.


Yes, because they weren`t psychic or genocidal of nature. Hard to blame them for that...
 
2013-03-21 10:41:26 PM
The Native American was an idiot. The first settlers didn't come here as immigrants. Immigration implies foreigners coming to a sovereign nation with laws.
 
2013-03-21 10:46:48 PM
Republicans dont need any new ideas, they already have one.

Its called America.

And they dont intend to share it with YOU!
 
2013-03-21 10:49:02 PM

mordi: Yes, because they weren`t psychic or genocidal of nature. Hard to blame them for that...


LIke I said, they had warning signs and people spoke out, but they ignored them until it was too late. Because it takes a psychic to know trading for cases of whiskey when half the adult men in the tribe are degenerate alcoholics  is probably not the best thing for the future of your people.
 
2013-03-21 11:31:38 PM

DrewCurtisJr: mordi: Yes, because they weren`t psychic or genocidal of nature. Hard to blame them for that...

LIke I said, they had warning signs and people spoke out, but they ignored them until it was too late. Because it takes a psychic to know trading for cases of whiskey when half the adult men in the tribe are degenerate alcoholics  is probably not the best thing for the future of your people.


Okay, let`s say there`s 1000 people in that tribe, and 500 of them are alcoholics. The ting is, the same tribe could, before the plague, have 10000 people, as some tribes lost up to 90% of their population due to it. So, 9000 dead or 500 alcoholics, hard to see whats worst... Even skipping the plague part, which was the subject of the discussion in the first place, the rampant alcoholism occurred in the too farking late stage.

There are 2 ways the Native Americans could have stopped the Europeans from taking their lands. 1: Stopping them before they could transfer the plague (the psychic part), and 2: joining forces after the plague, and before it was to late. Who is the biggest treat to America today? China? Russia? Finland? How many do you think would pick Finland? Sure they can fight, but taking over America? Would you join forces with Iran, Cuba and Syria to stem the tide of the mighty Finnish? That`s kinda how it looked and sounded back then. Not until it was too late did the discover that the Soumi had the backing of the rest of the world.

But, you`re right, boozing away your life doesn`t help. Then again, surviving one of the worst human disasters in the history of mankind gives you a lot to both celebrate and mourn, and you can`t do that without some whiskey:)
 
2013-03-21 11:43:56 PM
Native Americans are a conquered people.
 
2013-03-22 12:02:47 AM

TerminalEchoes: The Native American was an idiot. The first settlers didn't come here as immigrants. Immigration implies foreigners coming to a sovereign nation with laws.


Dont be coy; you know your basically saying "might makes right".
 
2013-03-22 12:18:24 AM

adamgreeney: So according to this thread, if Mexicans would just come over the boarder and start murdering people and then claim their land, it'd be totally OK. Got it


Only if they win.
 
2013-03-22 12:37:33 AM

revrendjim: DamnYankees: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

What previous peoples?

Bigfoot.


Also known as Gigantopithecus Blacki...

/coexisted with mankind for hundreds of thousands of years...
 
2013-03-22 01:49:47 AM
The Europeans conquered them and drove them out. That's not really "immigration" now, is it?
I guess white flight is sort of similar, but the power is still in the hands of the Europeans.
 
2013-03-22 02:11:33 AM

Frederick: TerminalEchoes: The Native American was an idiot. The first settlers didn't come here as immigrants. Immigration implies foreigners coming to a sovereign nation with laws.

Dont be coy; you know your basically saying "might makes right".


Uh, no, that's not what I'm saying at all. I meant what I said. Kinda hard to be an immigrant if you come to a land with no official government or unifying laws. Natives (even though they came from somewhere else, too) need to stop with the rhetoric. Just makes them look stupid.
 
2013-03-22 03:02:29 AM

TerminalEchoes: Frederick: TerminalEchoes: The Native American was an idiot. The first settlers didn't come here as immigrants. Immigration implies foreigners coming to a sovereign nation with laws.

Dont be coy; you know your basically saying "might makes right".

Uh, no, that's not what I'm saying at all. I meant what I said. Kinda hard to be an immigrant if you come to a land with no official government or unifying laws. Natives (even though they came from somewhere else, too) need to stop with the rhetoric. Just makes them look stupid.


The problem with what you are saying is that you are expecting that natives to adhere to a standard that Europeans created.  Native Americans had customs (some might say laws) that they believed in and followed.  Native Americans had Chiefs and subordinates (some might say government).  Just because they didnt use the same terminology as Europeans doesnt make it invalid.

The only reason it played out the way it did was because the Europeans were better at war.  Hence "might makes right".
 
2013-03-22 07:13:47 AM

Frederick: TerminalEchoes: Frederick: TerminalEchoes: The Native American was an idiot. The first settlers didn't come here as immigrants. Immigration implies foreigners coming to a sovereign nation with laws.

Dont be coy; you know your basically saying "might makes right".

Uh, no, that's not what I'm saying at all. I meant what I said. Kinda hard to be an immigrant if you come to a land with no official government or unifying laws. Natives (even though they came from somewhere else, too) need to stop with the rhetoric. Just makes them look stupid.

The problem with what you are saying is that you are expecting that natives to adhere to a standard that Europeans created.  Native Americans had customs (some might say laws) that they believed in and followed.  Native Americans had Chiefs and subordinates (some might say government).  Just because they didnt use the same terminology as Europeans doesnt make it invalid.

The only reason it played out the way it did was because the Europeans were better at war.  Hence "might makes right".


The fact is that the "natives" that were here when Europeans came did the exact same thing to the previous Natives.

The difference between the US and the ranting of a "Native" who is butt hurt over europeans in the US is that we do have the power to control who enters our border.
 
2013-03-22 08:02:24 AM

jim32rr: Rwa2play: Happy Hours: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

Where's the Smart button when I need it?

Stupid rhetoric is stupid

Sorry Indians. We've massacred you, we've romanticized you and we've also labeled you as savages.

Stop playing the victim and join modern society.

Just as soon as the US Government pays full restitution for everything they've done in order to wipe them out.

We should pay them off, they are not making much progress with the monthly payments from Uncle Sam


Yeah...and the non-natives had A LOT to do with that.
 
2013-03-22 08:48:43 AM

liam76: Frederick: TerminalEchoes: Frederick: TerminalEchoes: The Native American was an idiot. The first settlers didn't come here as immigrants. Immigration implies foreigners coming to a sovereign nation with laws.

Dont be coy; you know your basically saying "might makes right".

Uh, no, that's not what I'm saying at all. I meant what I said. Kinda hard to be an immigrant if you come to a land with no official government or unifying laws. Natives (even though they came from somewhere else, too) need to stop with the rhetoric. Just makes them look stupid.

The problem with what you are saying is that you are expecting that natives to adhere to a standard that Europeans created.  Native Americans had customs (some might say laws) that they believed in and followed.  Native Americans had Chiefs and subordinates (some might say government).  Just because they didnt use the same terminology as Europeans doesnt make it invalid.

The only reason it played out the way it did was because the Europeans were better at war.  Hence "might makes right".

The fact is that the "natives" that were here when Europeans came did the exact same thing to the previous Natives.

The difference between the US and the ranting of a "Native" who is butt hurt over europeans in the US is that we do have the power to control who enters our border.


Clearly Mars is an orange because it's, y'know, orange...

Context, anachronism, equivalency they're like kryptonite to you pituary, crypto-fundamentalist retards, aren't they?
 
2013-03-22 08:59:11 AM

Mrfusticle: Context, anachronism, equivalency they're like kryptonite to you pituary, crypto-fundamentalist retards, aren't they?


What is the context that makes "Native" extermination of previous native ok, but bad when europeans do it?

Or are you one of those morons who believe that Native americans were all one peopel and they never opressed, fought or exterminated other groups?
 
2013-03-22 09:03:53 AM
Ooh.. tangent!
Don't think I mentioned NAs in my post .. nice try though.

I know! Why doesn't the US invade Mexico .. solve the drug peroblem and all that.. I seriously doubt they could "control their borders" against the US army...

...or is that a stupid point completely out of context?
 
2013-03-22 09:16:46 AM

Mrfusticle: Ooh.. tangent!
Don't think I mentioned NAs in my post .. nice try though.


How is that a tangent?  It was the main point of the post you responded to.


Either you were critiquing my stance on NA's or you are a moron throwing out insults completely unrealted to the posts you are responding to.
 
2013-03-22 09:31:24 AM

liam76: Mrfusticle: Ooh.. tangent!
Don't think I mentioned NAs in my post .. nice try though.

How is that a tangent?  It was the main point of the post you responded to.


Either you were critiquing my stance on NA's or you are a moron throwing out insults completely unrealted to the posts you are responding to.


If the shoe fits....
 
2013-03-22 09:39:46 AM
I think most here missed her point altogether. Not terribly surprising as nuance isn't handled well by many folks. If you think she was playing the victim and whining about the white man taking her land you are an idiot.
 
2013-03-22 10:08:12 AM

nocturnal001: I think most here missed her point altogether. Not terribly surprising as nuance isn't handled well by many folks. If you think she was playing the victim and whining about the white man taking her land you are an idiot.


she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.
 
2013-03-22 11:00:31 AM

liam76: Mrfusticle: Ooh.. tangent!
Don't think I mentioned NAs in my post .. nice try though.

How is that a tangent?  It was the main point of the post you responded to.


Either you were critiquing my stance on NA's or you are a moron throwing out insults completely unrealted to the posts you are responding to.



No, I wasn't critiquing your NA stance.. It was a more general observation about the lack of nuance to critical thinking types like you suffer from... Eg: "the power to control who enters our border. " when talking about 400 year old nomadic tribes and the east coast of the United States.

It's much like the Second Amendment nonsense.. You have no concept of time altering precepts.. Every "truth" is universal and eternal... can't imagine where you get it from.
 
2013-03-22 11:28:39 AM
Oh, so they natives had laws in place that addressed immigration or is this just another one of those attempts at invoking more emotional bullshiat from the bleeding hearts out there?
 
2013-03-22 11:29:35 AM
/goddammit, I should proofread before hitting send....
 
2013-03-22 11:29:58 AM

skullkrusher: nocturnal001: I think most here missed her point altogether. Not terribly surprising as nuance isn't handled well by many folks. If you think she was playing the victim and whining about the white man taking her land you are an idiot.

she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.


You are making my point exactly.  As you probably didn't RTA, and instead choose to believe that she is some kind of crazed anti-white crusader who thinks whites are illegals I'll help out.  As I don't see any record of her putting forth legislation to deport whites, it's only reasonable to think that she was responding to a bunch of political grandstanding with a flippant remark highlighting that everyone in the US was an immigrant at some point.

Or your take away can be this she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.

It's up to you really.
 
2013-03-22 11:42:37 AM

nocturnal001: skullkrusher: nocturnal001: I think most here missed her point altogether. Not terribly surprising as nuance isn't handled well by many folks. If you think she was playing the victim and whining about the white man taking her land you are an idiot.

she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.

You are making my point exactly.  As you probably didn't RTA, and instead choose to believe that she is some kind of crazed anti-white crusader who thinks whites are illegals I'll help out.  As I don't see any record of her putting forth legislation to deport whites, it's only reasonable to think that she was responding to a bunch of political grandstanding with a flippant remark highlighting that everyone in the US was an immigrant at some point.

Or your take away can be this she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.

It's up to you really.


I read TFA. Guy wants to stop allowing kids of illegal residents to have in-state tuition at state universities. She says "I think it's funny Mr. Kobach, because when you mention illegal immigrant, I think of all of you"

There's not much nuance to it at all. She didn't say "we were all immigrants at one point" or "these people deserve the opportunity that your ancestors had". No, she hears the term "illegal immigrant" and thinks of "all of [them]". It was a stupid thing to say. I haven't said anything about her being a crazed anti-white crusader. I think she made a foolish remark that doesn't even make any farking sense.
 
2013-03-22 11:47:48 AM
Considering science theorizes that 'life' started in now-whats-called-the-middle-east, wouldn't 'Native' Americans be immigrants also? Not that it matter because they are a conquered people.
 
2013-03-22 12:27:02 PM

Mrfusticle: liam76: Mrfusticle: Ooh.. tangent!
Don't think I mentioned NAs in my post .. nice try though.

How is that a tangent? It was the main point of the post you responded to.


Either you were critiquing my stance on NA's or you are a moron throwing out insults completely unrealted to the posts you are responding to.


No, I wasn't critiquing your NA stance..



Got it.  So the underlined applies.

It was a more general observation about the lack of nuance to critical thinking types like you suffer from... Eg: "the power to control who enters our border. " when talking about 400 year old nomadic tribes and the east coast of the United States.

What type am I?  Please let me know what other position you think I hold.

As far as lack of nuance, look in the mirror.  I don't expect themt o have that power, nor do I think they shoudl have.  Just pointing out they have no moral high ground on this.  If they had the power to keep europeans out, they would have.
 
2013-03-22 12:38:15 PM
That was the second best burn..
The best burn...we own YOUR land....have for some time now. Get over it!
 
2013-03-22 12:40:53 PM

skullkrusher: nocturnal001: skullkrusher: nocturnal001: I think most here missed her point altogether. Not terribly surprising as nuance isn't handled well by many folks. If you think she was playing the victim and whining about the white man taking her land you are an idiot.

she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.

You are making my point exactly.  As you probably didn't RTA, and instead choose to believe that she is some kind of crazed anti-white crusader who thinks whites are illegals I'll help out.  As I don't see any record of her putting forth legislation to deport whites, it's only reasonable to think that she was responding to a bunch of political grandstanding with a flippant remark highlighting that everyone in the US was an immigrant at some point.

Or your take away can be this she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.

It's up to you really.

I read TFA. Guy wants to stop allowing kids of illegal residents to have in-state tuition at state universities. She says "I think it's funny Mr. Kobach, because when you mention illegal immigrant, I think of all of you"

There's not much nuance to it at all. She didn't say "we were all immigrants at one point" or "these people deserve the opportunity that your ancestors had". No, she hears the term "illegal immigrant" and thinks of "all of [them]". It was a stupid thing to say. I haven't said anything about her being a crazed anti-white crusader. I think she made a foolish remark that doesn't even make any farking sense.


Saying her comment was pointless or stupid is fine.  People seem to translate that into "teh reverse racism1".  This is the first I've ever heard of her, could be a total retard for all I (we?) know.
 
2013-03-22 01:00:07 PM

nocturnal001: skullkrusher: nocturnal001: skullkrusher: nocturnal001: I think most here missed her point altogether. Not terribly surprising as nuance isn't handled well by many folks. If you think she was playing the victim and whining about the white man taking her land you are an idiot.

she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.

You are making my point exactly.  As you probably didn't RTA, and instead choose to believe that she is some kind of crazed anti-white crusader who thinks whites are illegals I'll help out.  As I don't see any record of her putting forth legislation to deport whites, it's only reasonable to think that she was responding to a bunch of political grandstanding with a flippant remark highlighting that everyone in the US was an immigrant at some point.

Or your take away can be this she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.

It's up to you really.

I read TFA. Guy wants to stop allowing kids of illegal residents to have in-state tuition at state universities. She says "I think it's funny Mr. Kobach, because when you mention illegal immigrant, I think of all of you"

There's not much nuance to it at all. She didn't say "we were all immigrants at one point" or "these people deserve the opportunity that your ancestors had". No, she hears the term "illegal immigrant" and thinks of "all of [them]". It was a stupid thing to say. I haven't said anything about her being a crazed anti-white crusader. I think she made a foolish remark that doesn't even make any farking sense.

Saying her comment was pointless or stupid is fine.  People seem to translate that into "teh reverse racism1".  This is the first I've ever heard of her, could be a total retard for all I (we?) know.


never heard of her either. I don't see much difference between what she said and saying the same of other groups.

"When I hear 'illegal immigration', I think of all of you Mexicans".

Incredibly stupid. "Reverse racism" is a stupid term and the word "racism" is itself often misused. This is plain old bigotry and ignorance.
 
2013-03-22 01:29:22 PM

skullkrusher: nocturnal001: skullkrusher: nocturnal001: skullkrusher: nocturnal001: I think most here missed her point altogether. Not terribly surprising as nuance isn't handled well by many folks. If you think she was playing the victim and whining about the white man taking her land you are an idiot.

she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.

You are making my point exactly.  As you probably didn't RTA, and instead choose to believe that she is some kind of crazed anti-white crusader who thinks whites are illegals I'll help out.  As I don't see any record of her putting forth legislation to deport whites, it's only reasonable to think that she was responding to a bunch of political grandstanding with a flippant remark highlighting that everyone in the US was an immigrant at some point.

Or your take away can be this she looks at white people and thinks "illegal immigrant". Ya know, as smart nuanced people do.

It's up to you really.

I read TFA. Guy wants to stop allowing kids of illegal residents to have in-state tuition at state universities. She says "I think it's funny Mr. Kobach, because when you mention illegal immigrant, I think of all of you"

There's not much nuance to it at all. She didn't say "we were all immigrants at one point" or "these people deserve the opportunity that your ancestors had". No, she hears the term "illegal immigrant" and thinks of "all of [them]". It was a stupid thing to say. I haven't said anything about her being a crazed anti-white crusader. I think she made a foolish remark that doesn't even make any farking sense.

Saying her comment was pointless or stupid is fine.  People seem to translate that into "teh reverse racism1".  This is the first I've ever heard of her, could be a total retard for all I (we?) know.

never heard of her either. I don't see much difference between what she said and saying the same of other groups.

"When I hear 'illegal immigration', I think of all of you Mexi ...


I agree on the "reverse" racism thing at least.  It's just racism, no matter who it is directed against.  Judging somebody by their skin/ethnicity or acting on that judgement is what I think racism is.

If she were smart she would have taken the moral high ground and said something like "Look, I could sit here and claim that white people were the illegal immigrants in this country, but I won't do that.  Banning children who attended public schools from receiving in state tuition punishes people that have lived here blah blah etc."
 
2013-03-22 01:49:59 PM

nocturnal001: If she were smart she would have taken the moral high ground and said something like "Look, I could sit here and claim that white people were the illegal immigrants in this country, but I won't do that. Banning children who attended public schools from receiving in state tuition punishes people that have lived here blah blah etc."


that would still be stupid because there was nothing "illegal" about Euros coming to the US. Also, it's 2012. Even if this dude's ancestors came over on the Mayflower or took part in the conquest of the West, "thinking" of him and others like him when hearing the term "illegal immigration" makes her a jackass.
 
2013-03-22 02:09:55 PM

Bonzo_1116: give me doughnuts: Native American lawmaker to anti-immigrant Kansas official: "When you mention illegal immigrant, I think of all of you"

Really? So tell me, Sitting Bullshiat, exactly what country did the European colonists immigrate to?

The Iriquois League(AKA the Five Nations), the Aztec Empire, the Inca Empire, etc etc etc.  Just because they didn't have flags or cannons doesn't mean those weren't countries.  Hell, the Mayans/Aztecs/Incas had straight up kings just like the Europeans of the time, complete with bullshiat stories of divine right.  Tenochtitlan at the time of the Spanish conquest was one of the largest cities on the whole farking planet.  Certainly bigger than Madrid.

The rules of the Iriquois Confederacy may have inspired early drafts of the US constitution.

They weren't ignorant savages wearing skins, grunting in the woods---that was the French and Russian furtraders.


Those aren't countries that the Europeans immigrated to, those were countries that the Europeans conquered.
 
2013-03-22 05:05:02 PM

TerminalEchoes: The Native American was an idiot.


Spoken by a man of experience in being an idiot.
 
2013-03-22 05:19:07 PM
NostroZ: [www.politifake.org image 640x703]

Fighting terrorism since 1492 is a good one.
 
2013-03-23 01:31:37 AM
Aaaaaaaaaaand it's pretty much precisely the sort of derp in this thread why my ancestors pretty much passed themselves as "Black Dutch" and "Black Irish" after they and a goodly number of their neighbours were subjected to the first incident that is considered to meet the modern crime against humanity known as "ethnic cleansing".  (Specifically, a good number of my relatives' neighbours who were ethnically cleansed all the way the hell to Oklahoma in the middle of winter in 1838 because gold was found in Dahlonega.)

I will note, as an aside, that this was after said ancestors became so Westernised that they even earned the cute little nickname of being one of the "Five Civilised Tribes" (right down to having Christian churches, dressing and holding parliamentary government like Proper White Folks, and even having a particularly clever guy by the name of Sikwayi--later munged to "Sequoyah"--invent a functional syllabary for their language...of note, Sikwayi is exactly one of FOUR people in human history that can be said to have invented a writing system wholescale for his primary language, being among such distinguished company as King Sejong the Great of Korea).

In fact, they were SO very Westernised that they had cottoned onto the concept of a "Legal System" and actually set the actual precedent in the US Supreme Court that First Nations are considered separate dependent nations with their own legal systems and laws when they tried to sue the state of Georgia over what was becoming a major crisis of a shiatload of very heavily armed Illegal Alien Rednecks invading their land wholescale and even burning people out of their homes and committing what we would refer to nowadays as Major Human Rights Violations.  (Pretty much said Illegal Alien Rednecks were actually committing all those depredations that the Right Wing Press likes to accuse the undocumented folks coming in from Guadalajara of doing.)

Alas, this did not stop the US Government (and particularly Andy Jackson, who really liked the idea of having his own US Mint in Dahlonega) from signing a bogus treaty with someone who wasn't even legally recognised as the head of the Cherokee government even by US law (it'd be roughly equivalent to us signing, oh, a treaty with one of those really rabid far-right "West Bank Jewish Settlement" kibbutzim granting Israel the legal right to own everything in the Middle East from Istanbul to Cairo to Riyadh under the claim that they were the legitimate government of "Greater Israel") and then proceeding to use this as an excuse to ethnically cleanse my ancestors the hell to Oklahoma.  (Yes, alas, the US Government got their damn mint.  And promptly closed it down about ten years later after the gold ran out.)

Unfortunately, my ancestors had not quite been introduced to the concept of Unitary Government, which was even a rare thing among the White Folks of the time (pretty much ever since George VII started having minor fits of psychosis and Parliament stepped in and the British monarch became a constitutional monarch with limited powers...ironically, this act,(and the subsequent acts of making the Colonies Pay For Their Own Damn Defense Against The French And Haudenosee without formally granting them a landing or twelve in Parliament) being pretty much the precipitating act leading to the Revolutionary War).

And of note--there's a fair amount of evidence, both anthropological and via oral history, that indicates that the state of my ancestors circa 1600ish (which even then had a parliamentary government system with representative government by city-states and a central capital referred to as a "mother town" as well as the equivalent of a Prime Minister for peacetime issues and an equivalent of a Secretary of Defense for wartime issues--both elected by regular parliamentary election) was--even as relatively civilised as they were then--a temporary embarassment; it's thought that at least some temple mound structures could be linked (a la the Natchez Nation, probably the last of the Mound People to be documented in their prime in the 1700s) and there is a story of how there once was a theocratic system of government (a la the Natchez) that was systematically overthrown--and that the parliamentary system was set up shortly before the Spanish stumbled into their country in the mid-1500s.  DeSoto actually ran into some of my ancestors, most likely. :D

(Interestingly, the surviving Natchez ended up becoming citizens of the nation of my ancestors, among others...after we gave them refugee status.  Oh, yes...at least the country of my ancestors DID have a fairly robust system of asylum and refugee status (and adoption of citizenship into the nation) for quite some time before the Westernisation started in earnest.)

/frankly saw the lawmaker's comment the same way that NDNs have ha-ha-only-serious commented re white folks screaming "OH NOES TEH ILLEGALZ!!!111one!" pretty much since people started panicking about those OMFG IRISH PAPISTS OH NOES
//which is to say, "STFU, sit down and drink your goddamn tea, y'all tried outright ethnic cleansing with us and somehow we're still around, and I don't see Jorge pretty much burning down your homes and forcing you to Bumfark, Saskatchewan at gunpoint.  Quit being such a goddamn baby"
 
2013-03-23 03:49:14 AM
Considering what happened to the Native Americans, comparing illegal immigration to the European colonization of the Americas makes a pretty bad pro-immigration point.
 
2013-03-23 06:45:56 PM

Great Porn Dragon: Aaaaaaaaaaand it's pretty much precisely the sort of derp in this thread why my ancestors pretty much passed themselves as "Black Dutch" and "Black Irish" after they and a goodly number of their neighbours were subjected to the first incident that is considered to meet the modern crime against humanity known as "ethnic cleansing".  (Specifically, a good number of my relatives' neighbours who were ethnically cleansed all the way the hell to Oklahoma in the middle of winter in 1838 because gold was found in Dahlonega.)

I will note, as an aside, that this was after said ancestors became so Westernised that they even earned the cute little nickname of being one of the "Five Civilised Tribes" (right down to having Christian churches, dressing and holding parliamentary government like Proper White Folks, and even having a particularly clever guy by the name of Sikwayi--later munged to "Sequoyah"--invent a functional syllabary for their language...of note, Sikwayi is exactly one of FOUR people in human history that can be said to have invented a writing system wholescale for his primary language, being among such distinguished company as King Sejong the Great of Korea).

In fact, they were SO very Westernised that they had cottoned onto the concept of a "Legal System" and actually set the actual precedent in the US Supreme Court that First Nations are considered separate dependent nations with their own legal systems and laws when they tried to sue the state of Georgia over what was becoming a major crisis of a shiatload of very heavily armed Illegal Alien Rednecks invading their land wholescale and even burning people out of their homes and committing what we would refer to nowadays as Major Human Rights Violations.  (Pretty much said Illegal Alien Rednecks were actually committing all those depredations that the Right Wing Press likes to accuse the undocumented folks coming in from Guadalajara of doing.)

Alas, this did not stop the US Government (and particularly Andy ...


If we had known what whiny biatches their descendents would turn out to be, we'd have stepped up the genocide efforts a little and had the Trail lead over a cliff.
 
2013-03-24 01:27:40 AM

Oldiron_79: NostroZ: [www.politifake.org image 640x703]

Fighting terrorism since 1492 is a good one.


Yeah, I basically showed up to make sure this was posted and somehow ended up staying for the trainwreck that is this thread.
 
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