If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Think Progress)   Native American lawmaker to anti-immigrant Kansas official: "When you mention illegal immigrant, I think of all of you"   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 194
    More: Amusing, illegal immigrants, Kansas, Kris Kobach, immigrants  
•       •       •

3824 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 Mar 2013 at 4:46 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



194 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-03-21 06:18:16 PM
Really? It's still amusing? Yawn
 
2013-03-21 06:19:59 PM

links136: mitchcumstein1: Everybody came from somewhere else.

A bigger stronger force came in and took the Indian's land. It's happened since the dawn of man, it will continue long after we're all gone.

ha-ha-guy: Considering there were multiple waves of migration across the land bridge, according to most theories at least, the Indian tribes who were here when Columbus showed up were just those whose ancestors won out during that land grab, not necessarily the first.

Eddie Adams from Torrance: mitchcumstein1: Everybody came from somewhere else.

A bigger stronger force came in and took the Indian's land. It's happened since the dawn of man, it will continue long after we're all gone.

We didn't take their land. There was lots of land here and nobody was using it. There were no farms, towns, or cities.

Actually according to Canadian and American law, in the Royal Poclamation of 1763, it was clearly stated out which lines were american and canadian and which were each sovereign tribes own land, and that the only way european settlers could live on first nation tribal land was by being purchased by the crown.  Because that never happened the law was broken.  The mere fact treaties are made proves Tribes were nations.  In other words, each tribe or band is a sovereign nation much like Canada or US is, to break those treaties are similar to breaking treaties with Russia or China.

This isn't just a moral issue, it's a legal one, and it's one Canada's currently starting to lose in court, there's actually been a few cases were Aboriginal's couldn't be prosecuted by Canadian judges due to International Law.  It's that serious.


Not to piss in anyone's wheaties, but was there any type of event shortly after the RoyalProclamation of 1763 that might have had an effect on that agreement?

/not that there weren't subsequent ones
 
2013-03-21 06:20:38 PM
Holy hell, this thread was morons, right out of the gate.
 
2013-03-21 06:22:24 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: mitchcumstein1: Everybody came from somewhere else.

A bigger stronger force came in and took the Indian's land. It's happened since the dawn of man, it will continue long after we're all gone.

We didn't take their land. There was lots of land here and nobody was using it. There were no farms, towns, or cities.


So all that killing and chasing them off their land didn't actually happen. Nice to know.
 
2013-03-21 06:23:58 PM

thamike: Holy hell, this thread was morons, right out of the gate.


you see americans have done a lot more for humanity than the natives would have also furthermore bleep bloop
 
2013-03-21 06:24:32 PM
Was it Elizabeth Warren?

/drtfa
 
2013-03-21 06:25:30 PM

Jackson Herring: thamike: Holy hell, this thread was morons, right out of the gate.

you see americans have done a lot more for humanity than the natives would have also furthermore bleep bloop


Where's libbynomore2?  Isn't he the expert on this?
 
2013-03-21 06:26:38 PM
I'm pretty jaded.  I long ago lost the ability to drop my jaw at the level of derp possible from a Fark Politics tab.  But god damn if this thread doesn't come close to breaching the walls.
 
2013-03-21 06:26:39 PM

OgreMagi: what_now: When did your people get here?

In the 1630s.  Well documented, too.


Puritans or debtor's prison?
 
2013-03-21 06:27:21 PM
Banksy's contribution

i48.tinypic.com
 
2013-03-21 06:34:14 PM

Ed Grubermann: OgreMagi: what_now: When did your people get here?

In the 1630s.  Well documented, too.

Puritans or debtor's prison?


Sadly, Puritans.  I should hide that shame.  I would much prefer to be a decendent of a criminal.
 
2013-03-21 06:35:11 PM

OgreMagi: I would much prefer to be a decendent of a criminal.


rlv.zcache.com
 
2013-03-21 06:35:40 PM

Jackson Herring: oh yeah, i'm mad, not the guy who actually typed the phrase "never had 'white guilt'"


That was just a red Herring.
 
2013-03-21 06:41:12 PM

hardinparamedic: OgreMagi: I would much prefer to be a decendent of a criminal.

[rlv.zcache.com image 400x400]


As it happens, distant relatives of mine did end up in Australia.  From what I've read, he wasn't a convicted criminal, but only because he volunteered to go as a surgeon instead of being put on trial for highway robbery.
 
2013-03-21 06:49:44 PM
To be fair, there were no Native American laws against immigration.
 
2013-03-21 06:54:54 PM

I_C_Weener: To be fair, there were no Native American laws against immigration.


That's not true. Especially early on if you weren't welcome you had problems and if you wanted to stay around it was on their terms.
 
2013-03-21 06:57:23 PM

Happy Hours: Stop playing the victim and join modern society.


The person who made the statement is a state representative.  Is that modern enough for you?  Or maybe should them uppity redskins just keep their stupid squaws at home tending the fire in the teepee?
 
2013-03-21 06:59:42 PM
That's some nice bigotry, Pocadumbass

/irony
//yay immigrants!
 
2013-03-21 07:01:47 PM

mrshowrules: Happy Hours: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

Where's the Smart button when I need it?

Stupid rhetoric is stupid

Sorry Indians. We've massacred you, we've romanticized you and we've also labeled you as savages.

Stop playing the victim and join modern society.

I think that is the point this person was trying to get across to certain Republicans.


You've won that.
 
2013-03-21 07:02:47 PM

DrewCurtisJr: I_C_Weener: To be fair, there were no Native American laws against immigration.

That's not true. Especially early on if you weren't welcome you had problems and if you wanted to stay around it was on their terms.


Well, that was their fault for not writing it down.  :)

The term for enemy and stranger is the same in many native american languages.  That doesn't mean they had an organized system to criminalize immigration.  Hell, many of them were nomadic.  How would they even define immigration?
 
2013-03-21 07:11:25 PM
Well, goody for him. Too bad that lawmaker can't look at the Rez and other places around this country and see what illegal immigration coupled with the drug cartels are doing to the native peoples.

Large numbers of illegal immigrants have resulted in increased levels of crime on the Reservation. During March 2008 alone, an estimated 15,500 illegal immigrants entered the Reservation. (19) The Desert People now find it necessary to secure their homes because immigrants have stolen food, clothing and other possessions. Sometimes, people find undocumented immigrants sleeping on their porches or in outbuildings near their homes. Until recently, people who lived on the Reservation were able to walk through the desert without fear. Now they have found it increasingly necessary to take personal security measures in order to protect their families and their possessions.
Although these problems are immense, one of the most damaging ramifications of human and drug smuggling on the Reservation is the instant wealth that smugglers offer to people who have lived in poverty and deprivation for generations. The lure of tax free dollars in exchange for transportation, food, water, and shelter has led some tribal members (especially the young) to participate in smuggling. Additionally, for humanitarian reasons, some people have established water stations along well-travelled routes through the Reservation. Whereas these stations save lives, they also draw illegal migrants and smugglers. Water stations are a contentious issue on the Reservation, and families are sometimes torn apart by differences of opinion over interaction with illegal migrants and smugglers.
 
2013-03-21 07:12:03 PM

hardinparamedic: NostroZ: [www.politifake.org image 640x703]

God told the white man to kill off the native savages.

Who should we trust, again?


Well, if you consider plague an act of God, then he did most of the work on his own...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_smallpox#Epidemics_in_the_Am er icas
 
2013-03-21 07:12:26 PM
Oh? Under what codified law?
 
2013-03-21 07:15:09 PM
And, interestingly, this Native American is obviously pretty ignorant about past intrusions from Mexico. Numerous times tribes from what is now Mexico moved into the American Southwest and decimated tribes that existed there.

But it's different when it's brown or red people doing it. Whitey is all together a different thing.

But, hey, a couple hundred years from now his ancestor will be biatching at the ancestors of the illegals about them coming in and ruining their good thing.
 
2013-03-21 07:29:28 PM

Fart_Machine: Actually plagues took care of most of them.


There were many situations where the tribes were more interested on keeping the beaver pelt trade on lockdown than looking at their long term best interests.
 
2013-03-21 07:37:34 PM
The correct response being, "Yeah you're right!  See what happens when you don't control your borders?"

/now back to your reservation
//don't forget your blanket
 
2013-03-21 07:37:38 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Lionel Mandrake: tenpoundsofcheese: sure, the Tohono O'odham Nation of Arizona were the first to ever be in Arizona.

I think the Apaches would like to have a word with them.

Sure, that was the point she was making.

I was being sarcastic with my Weeners.

Looks like you don't know about the Apache/Tohono fighting.


You don't get to accuse anyone about being ignorant. First cast out the beam in thine own eye.
 
2013-03-21 07:39:41 PM

Jackson Herring: born_yesterday: But if you use ignore, you end up in the FARK echo chamber.  Or something.  PAY ATTENTION TO MY ALT!!!

"ignore is for the weak" said every widely ignored fark poster ever


I didn't say that.
 
2013-03-21 07:46:18 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: mitchcumstein1: Everybody came from somewhere else.

A bigger stronger force came in and took the Indian's land. It's happened since the dawn of man, it will continue long after we're all gone.

We didn't take their land. There was lots of land here and nobody was using it. There were no farms, towns, or cities.


Officer, I didn't steal that car.  There were lots of them and nobody was using it.
 
2013-03-21 07:49:14 PM
The "modern" natives just conquered and displaced the more ancient groups.  They're immigrants & land thieves as well, just more historically acceptable. For example, a Gwich'in  elder / historian spent hours regaling me with stories about how when his first people came over, there were several groups already in place (he described them as "tall & blonde", but I'm willing to give that over to artistic license) and the Gwich'in were starving and landless.  All they could do was kill the people there and take their food & homes.  I understand certain Native groups take the stories of their elders as gospel fact, so this must be true.

So, more relevant to this discussion, shut up Native-American lawmaker, you relatively fresh off the boat cock.
 
2013-03-21 07:55:22 PM
descendants...not ancestors...

/7 years of college down the drain
 
2013-03-21 08:02:02 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: descendants...not ancestors...

/7 years of college down the drain


Plenty of people take 7 years to graduate college.
 
2013-03-21 08:03:02 PM

DrewCurtisJr: Fart_Machine: Actually plagues took care of most of them.

There were many situations where the tribes were more interested on keeping the beaver pelt trade on lockdown than looking at their long term best interests.


And what would those long term interest look like? A few white guys didn`t pose much treath, short or long term,  to the Pre-Columbian Native Americans. A plague that is now considered to far exceed the Black Death`s impact on Europe on the other hand... Besides, if up to 90% of your people dies from an unknown decease, anything long term won`t be high on your list.
 
2013-03-21 08:03:43 PM
My old man once said: "We had a war and they lost so it's fair enough. They'll get over it."
 
2013-03-21 08:09:07 PM

jim32rr: Rwa2play: Happy Hours: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

Where's the Smart button when I need it?

Stupid rhetoric is stupid

Sorry Indians. We've massacred you, we've romanticized you and we've also labeled you as savages.

Stop playing the victim and join modern society.

Just as soon as the US Government pays full restitution for everything they've done in order to wipe them out.

We should pay them off, they are not making much progress with the monthly payments from Uncle Sam


Maybe if Uncle Sam actually paid what was owed, and let them handle their own finances for once, would work even better. Currently the federal government owes the various tribes over $100 billion. But since the government decided to put that money in a trust, way back when, to be managed by the BIA, the Indians don't have access to it. The U.S. government prefers to keep them in poverty.
 
2013-03-21 08:20:26 PM
Holy shiat, this thread should be boarded up and condemned.
 
2013-03-21 08:21:51 PM

OgreMagi: what_now: When did your people get here?

In the 1630s.  Well documented, too.


I hope that not all your ancestors came over in the first wave of ships...that's some inbred Jed territory.
 
2013-03-21 08:23:24 PM

mitchcumstein1: Everybody came from somewhere else.

A bigger stronger force came in and took the Indian's land. It's happened since the dawn of man, it will continue long after we're all gone.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history
 
2013-03-21 08:24:51 PM

mordi: And what would those long term interest look like?


I don't know, maybe not being conquered.

A few white guys didn`t pose much treath, short or long term,  to the Pre-Columbian Native Americans.

From almost the beginning there were those who warned against letting the Europeans gain too much influence. And as a few grew into a few too many the desire for trade made them overlook the obvious.
 
2013-03-21 08:47:05 PM

Bathia_Mapes: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Well, this thread went full derp-fest in a hurry

Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatownthe politics tab.


Only place TO go with that source material.  I mean it's a cheap shot, a "technically correct", and a spinning piledriver in one.  None but those so naive or so lacking in self-awareness as to no longer register as human can prop up a GOP talking point after that kind of devastation.
 
2013-03-21 08:48:34 PM

adamgreeney: So according to this thread, if Mexicans would just come over the boarder and start murdering people and then claim their land, it'd be totally OK. Got it


If Mexicans came across the "boarder", overthrew the government, and created a series of new laws under a widely-recognized legitimate government that defined them to be legal, then they would not be illegal immigrants.

This says nothing about morality or being "totally OK" unless you are an idiot.
 
2013-03-21 09:06:33 PM
So is Elizabeth Warren an anchor baby?
 
2013-03-21 09:12:59 PM

OgreMagi: Ed Grubermann: OgreMagi: what_now: When did your people get here?

In the 1630s.  Well documented, too.

Puritans or debtor's prison?

Sadly, Puritans.  I should hide that shame.  I would much prefer to be a decendent of a criminal.


Oh, crap. We're related. :(
 
2013-03-21 09:13:09 PM
Native American lawmaker to anti-immigrant Kansas official: "When you mention illegal immigrant, I think of all of you"

Really? So tell me, Sitting Bullshiat, exactly what country did the European colonists immigrate to?
 
2013-03-21 09:15:55 PM
Discovery doctrine ftw!
 
2013-03-21 09:36:36 PM

give me doughnuts: Native American lawmaker to anti-immigrant Kansas official: "When you mention illegal immigrant, I think of all of you"

Really? So tell me, Sitting Bullshiat, exactly what country did the European colonists immigrate to?


The Iriquois League(AKA the Five Nations), the Aztec Empire, the Inca Empire, etc etc etc.  Just because they didn't have flags or cannons doesn't mean those weren't countries.  Hell, the Mayans/Aztecs/Incas had straight up kings just like the Europeans of the time, complete with bullshiat stories of divine right.  Tenochtitlan at the time of the Spanish conquest was one of the largest cities on the whole farking planet.  Certainly bigger than Madrid.

The rules of the Iriquois Confederacy may have inspired early drafts of the US constitution.

They weren't ignorant savages wearing skins, grunting in the woods---that was the French and Russian furtraders.
 
2013-03-21 09:42:23 PM

mitchcumstein1: Everybody came from somewhere else.

A bigger stronger force came in and took the Indian's land. It's happened since the dawn of man, it will continue long after we're all gone.


social darwinism is sad
 
2013-03-21 09:42:35 PM

DrewCurtisJr: mordi: And what would those long term interest look like?

I don't know, maybe not being conquered.

A few white guys didn`t pose much treath, short or long term,  to the Pre-Columbian Native Americans.

From almost the beginning there were those who warned against letting the Europeans gain too much influence. And as a few grew into a few too many the desire for trade made them overlook the obvious.


The point is, the plague wiped out most of the Native Americans before the Europeans got any influence at all. In fact most of them got the plague without ever having met the Europeans. To avoid that, they would have had to be psychic and stop the Europeans from landing in the New World. Without the plague, the Native Americans would have had the manpower to toss those smelly guys back into the ocean if they got too rowdy. After the plague, they could still raze settlements to the ground, but could not realistically stop the invasion unless they united against them, as no lone tribe had the resources to do it alone.
So, before the plague got to them, the white man was not of any concern, and when the plague ran trough the Native population like a wildfire, survival would be more or less the only concern. Only after that would Europeans gaining influence be of any concern. But most of them still at this point had no reason see the new Americans as a treat to them, so to expect them to see them as the no. 1 threat to their existence, well...  Sure, with hindsight and all that, they should have, but due to the Europeans being from a world they knew nothing about, they could not see the treat they posed until it was to late for them to do anything about it.

So:
1: Native Americans being psychic would, like, totally, save the day.
2: Lacking any psychic NA`s, uniting forces with your enemy to beat up some tourists would be the only rational choice.
3: If failing on both step 1 and 2, boycotting them will fix everything.
 
2013-03-21 09:48:09 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: raerae1980: what_now: Flint Ironstag: netizencain: Funny, I consider NA's immigrants as well.

True. They came over the then connected Bering Straight and killed off the previous peoples. They did exactly what the Europeans did to them.

There is no evidence that there were settled peoples in the US before the natives crossed the Bering straight.

Have you heard of the Kennewick Man? He's an 8000 year old skeleton found in Washington State.  His remains caused an uproar in the Native American community because he was found to not be related to any of the modern native tribes through DNA.  Very interesting findings!

I think the issue here confusing a lot of Farkers is that there were several waves of immigration across the Bering Land/Ice Bridge when it existed; modern Native Americans living in the US are thought to be descended from a later (obviously pre-Columbian) immigration; if I recall correctly Latin/South American natives are theorized to be descended from a wave even earlier than those living farther North (I'm fuzzy on how many mass migrations there is evidence for total). Kennewick threw everyone for a loop but not appearing to have been descended from either.



There is even some evidence that there may have been a similar land bridge to Europe.  There have been claims that DNA recovered at some sites can be linked to people in Southwestern Europe.  I don't know how much weight these claims carry in the scientific community, but they are interesting.

/if you want citation, you've got the web in front of you, do it your damn self.
 
2013-03-21 09:51:56 PM

TheBigJerk: Bathia_Mapes: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Well, this thread went full derp-fest in a hurry

Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatownthe politics tab.

Only place TO go with that source material.  I mean it's a cheap shot, a "technically correct", and a spinning piledriver in one.  None but those so naive or so lacking in self-awareness as to no longer register as human can prop up a GOP talking point after that kind of devastation.


Do not underestimate the depitude of the right wing.

/for instance, I heard Lindsey Graham willfully encourage the continuation of rape and sexual assault in the US military.  It wasn't phrased exactly that way, but it's what it came down to.
Hey Lindsey, the system is broken and sexual predators are actively at work in the military!  Here's a fark load of facts!
Lindsey - Nope, system is fine, boys will be boys.
 
Displayed 50 of 194 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report