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(Chattanooga Times Free Press)   GOP governors for the last few years: lets slash taxes on businesses and the wealthy to show how "business friendly" we are" GOP governors now: We're broke and businesses are complaining our roads are crap-so let's double the gas tax   (timesfreepress.com) divider line 287
    More: Asinine, GOP, gasoline taxes, Republican governors, Michigan, third rail, Rick Snyder, vehicle registrations, sales taxes  
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2839 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 Mar 2013 at 12:57 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-21 11:19:13 AM
But gasoline taxes, some Republican officials say, are a lesser evil because the money traditionally doesn't wind up in general spending, but rather in building infrastructure, which helps boost economic development.

Long as the gas tax money stays out of the general fund and really does go to the roads, I'm okay with this.

And envious. New York's gas tax money goes into the general fund, and if you don't pay appropriate homage to the bosses you don't get jack shiat done in your district - and even then, the NYC Democratic machine gets first dibs.
 
2013-03-21 11:45:16 AM
But job creators!
 
2013-03-21 11:45:53 AM
Wait, what, you're telling me that a decent infrastructure and functional government services might be a factor in getting business to locate in your state, not just tax breaks? What kind of voodoo economics is this?
 
2013-03-21 11:49:32 AM
There aren't OTHER things you could tax that wouldn't have such a dramatic impact on the lower to middle class?

Oh, wait, that's right. You're a "Republican."

GFY, Snyder!
 
2013-03-21 11:52:59 AM
They also like the simple idea behind it. "It's a user fee," Snyder said. "If you use the roads more, you should pay more. If you use the roads less, you should pay less."

...

Ok, that actually makes some sense.  Doesn't take into account the poor slobs who *have* to commute an hour each day because their job is so f*cking far from home.
 
2013-03-21 11:56:19 AM

xanadian: They also like the simple idea behind it. "It's a user fee," Snyder said. "If you use the roads more, you should pay more. If you use the roads less, you should pay less."

...

Ok, that actually makes some sense.  Doesn't take into account the poor slobs who *have* to commute an hour each day because their job is so f*cking far from home.


Let's get rid of this for all taxes! Let's pay for all securities laws with an equity tax. Let's pay for the military by a wealth tax (since the military protects your wealth). DOWN WITH GOVERNMENT!
 
2013-03-21 11:56:57 AM
b-b-b-but gays wanna marry and recruit my children!  And atheists want to outlaw Christmas!  And Obama wants to bring 100,000,000 Muslims to America!  And the UN wants to confiscate my land, guns, and children!!1!

Seriously, sensible Republicans (if any are left) wake/grow the f*ck up.
 
2013-03-21 12:01:44 PM
Yeah because gas tax totally won't hit OTR trucking and raise prices on anything transported in a truck.
 
2013-03-21 12:03:00 PM

xanadian: They also like the simple idea behind it. "It's a user fee," Snyder said. "If you use the roads more, you should pay more. If you use the roads less, you should pay less."

...

Ok, that actually makes some sense.  Doesn't take into account the poor slobs who *have* to commute an hour each day because their job is so f*cking far from home.


Actually, I'm pretty sure it does take into account the working poor. In fact, levying a tax hike on the people who can least afford it is probably the general idea.
 
2013-03-21 12:03:15 PM

jake_lex: Wait, what, you're telling me that a decent infrastructure and functional government services might be a factor in getting business to locate in your state, not just tax breaks? What kind of voodoo economics is this?


They could always raise taxes.  that'd fix the problem!  oh, wait - no, they can't.  Republicans can't raise taxes, they can only CUT taxes.  And they can only cut taxes on corporations and the rich.  that's why it kinda sucks to be them.
 
2013-03-21 12:07:09 PM
No reasoning with a tea bagger.
 
2013-03-21 12:09:37 PM
Michigan roads have been crap for forever. I know when I cross into the UP by the way my vehicle handles.
 
2013-03-21 12:15:49 PM
Elected on the downside of the recession, he was among a crop of new Republican leaders eager to show they could boost their states' ailing economies with lower taxes.

I'll just assume the Michigan economy is now roaring, but if it isn't, it's because of Obama (or because Michigan didn't cut taxes enough).
 
2013-03-21 12:16:54 PM

Weaver95: jake_lex: Wait, what, you're telling me that a decent infrastructure and functional government services might be a factor in getting business to locate in your state, not just tax breaks? What kind of voodoo economics is this?

They could always raise taxes.  that'd fix the problem!  oh, wait - no, they can't.  Republicans can't raise taxes, they can only CUT taxes.  And they can only cut taxes on corporations and the rich.  that's why it kinda sucks to be them.


They cut the living hell out of  them taxes don't they? 'Course when they then realize they've got no money to provide basical govenmental functions like keeping the roads in repair or funding transportation infrastructure, then, well then they just hike "user fees" which so totally NOT the same thing.  Or even better yet, they "privatize" the road and let a private company gouge you for the privilege of being able to get to work every day

/Live in VA, Work in DC
//means that driving to work involves a a private "greenway" with a $5 each way toll,  $2 each way on the Va-owned toll road (which is set to double and then triple in the next couple years because VA won't pay for its share of the expansion of the Metro system out to Dulles airport) AND now Bobby MC wants to boost the Gas taxes and slap a toll on i-95 as well
///for those of you playing along at home that means effectively a $14/day $280/mo $3360/year "tax" that me and every other Nova resident has to pay regardless of income
//// S'why most days I take a commuter bus that is $7 a day each way -cheaper than driving (no gas costs) and they at least get to use the carpool lanes
 
2013-03-21 12:17:51 PM
They've also been selling off state assets to make the bottom line look better, crapping on abortion rights and gerrymandering the fark out of states.

A lot of damage has been done since the derpers got control in 2010 and much of it at the state level gets overlooked.
 
2013-03-21 12:20:01 PM
I use close to a 100 gallons of gas a week in a large truck driving to and back from work, the extra 14 bucks a week in tax would probably be fair considering how I use the roads, also I would just bring lunch all week instead of eating out a few times and basically call it even
 
2013-03-21 12:22:35 PM
In other news, GOPers are America hating scumbag morons, who should be rounded up by the state and publicly executed as an example to others.
 
2013-03-21 12:24:32 PM

King Something: xanadian: They also like the simple idea behind it. "It's a user fee," Snyder said. "If you use the roads more, you should pay more. If you use the roads less, you should pay less."

...

Ok, that actually makes some sense.  Doesn't take into account the poor slobs who *have* to commute an hour each day because their job is so f*cking far from home.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it does take into account the working poor. In fact, levying a tax hike on the people who can least afford it is probably the general idea.


well really, what are the odds that a member of the working poor contributed to his campaign?  So it's their own fault, now isn't it?
 
2013-03-21 12:28:59 PM
In other words, investing in a gas station in one of the northern suburbs of Toledo might be really clever really soon
 
2013-03-21 12:37:05 PM

xanadian: They also like the simple idea behind it. "It's a user fee," Snyder said. "If you use the roads more, you should pay more. If you use the roads less, you should pay less."

...

Ok, that actually makes some sense.  Doesn't take into account the poor slobs who *have* to commute an hour each day because their job is so f*cking far from home.


Yep. I'm in that situation and I'd LOVE to work closer to home (or from home, where I get more done, anyway) but instead, I waste 2 hours a day at least going back and forth.
 
2013-03-21 12:46:19 PM

Magorn: Weaver95: jake_lex: Wait, what, you're telling me that a decent infrastructure and functional government services might be a factor in getting business to locate in your state, not just tax breaks? What kind of voodoo economics is this?

They could always raise taxes.  that'd fix the problem!  oh, wait - no, they can't.  Republicans can't raise taxes, they can only CUT taxes.  And they can only cut taxes on corporations and the rich.  that's why it kinda sucks to be them.

They cut the living hell out of  them taxes don't they? 'Course when they then realize they've got no money to provide basical govenmental functions like keeping the roads in repair or funding transportation infrastructure, then, well then they just hike "user fees" which so totally NOT the same thing.  Or even better yet, they "privatize" the road and let a private company gouge you for the privilege of being able to get to work every day

/Live in VA, Work in DC
//means that driving to work involves a a private "greenway" with a $5 each way toll,  $2 each way on the Va-owned toll road (which is set to double and then triple in the next couple years because VA won't pay for its share of the expansion of the Metro system out to Dulles airport) AND now Bobby MC wants to boost the Gas taxes and slap a toll on i-95 as well
///for those of you playing along at home that means effectively a $14/day $280/mo $3360/year "tax" that me and every other Nova resident has to pay regardless of income
//// S'why most days I take a commuter bus that is $7 a day each way -cheaper than driving (no gas costs) and they at least get to use the carpool lanes


So you went from single occupancy in a vehicle to commuter bus.  When liberals recommend that its social engineering.
 
2013-03-21 01:06:18 PM

xanadian: They also like the simple idea behind it. "It's a user fee," Snyder said. "If you use the roads more, you should pay more. If you use the roads less, you should pay less."

...

Ok, that actually makes some sense.  Doesn't take into account the poor slobs who *have* to commute an hour each day because their job is so f*cking far from home.


It does increase fuel costs for business owners though. The rich are rich partially because they use so much of our infrastructure and resources, and have earned the most reward from them. So a gas tax increase does affect them too. Trucking company costs are going to be higher, same with any UPS and FedEx branches, or any company with its own fleet.
 
2013-03-21 01:06:57 PM
Yay, more taxes for the poor and the middle class. You know, the 47% who pay no taxes.
 
2013-03-21 01:07:21 PM

serpent_sky: xanadian: They also like the simple idea behind it. "It's a user fee," Snyder said. "If you use the roads more, you should pay more. If you use the roads less, you should pay less."

...

Ok, that actually makes some sense.  Doesn't take into account the poor slobs who *have* to commute an hour each day because their job is so f*cking far from home.

Yep. I'm in that situation and I'd LOVE to work closer to home (or from home, where I get more done, anyway) but instead, I waste 2 hours a day at least going back and forth.


And now you'll get to pay even more for gas to do so.

I understand the logic behind it, but it doesn't seem very practical, considering who it'd impact the most.  IIRC, in this state, they made a higher gas tax for diesel, since only busses/trucks/etc would use it and not your average commuter.
 
2013-03-21 01:07:25 PM

Magorn: //// S'why most days I take a commuter bus that is $7 a day each way -cheaper than driving (no gas costs) and they at least get to use the carpool lanes


If there's any place that needs more mass transit and less PMV's, it's the beltway.
 
2013-03-21 01:08:58 PM
Lower taxes on the wealthy and increase them items that disproportionately affect the poor and middle class.  It's the American way.
 
2013-03-21 01:09:36 PM

xanadian: They also like the simple idea behind it. "It's a user fee," Snyder said. "If you use the roads more, you should pay more. If you use the roads less, you should pay less."

...

Ok, that actually makes some sense.  Doesn't take into account the poor slobs who *have* to commute an hour each day because their job is so f*cking far from home.


It's practically the definition of a regressive tax.  There's nothing wrong with supporting regressive taxation--you just have to live with the economy, government and social structure that results.
 
2013-03-21 01:09:45 PM

jake_lex: Wait, what, you're telling me that a decent infrastructure and functional government services might be a factor in getting business to locate in your state, not just tax breaks? What kind of voodoo economics is this?


I was told private industry would pay for the roads.  They don't need government help for anything.
 
2013-03-21 01:10:43 PM

King Something: xanadian: They also like the simple idea behind it. "It's a user fee," Snyder said. "If you use the roads more, you should pay more. If you use the roads less, you should pay less."

...

Ok, that actually makes some sense.  Doesn't take into account the poor slobs who *have* to commute an hour each day because their job is so f*cking far from home.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it does take into account the working poor. In fact, levying a tax hike on the people who can least afford it is probably the general idea.


well they cant fight back... cept for all those guns we scared them into buying
 
2013-03-21 01:11:14 PM

TheGogmagog: jake_lex: Wait, what, you're telling me that a decent infrastructure and functional government services might be a factor in getting business to locate in your state, not just tax breaks? What kind of voodoo economics is this?

I was told private industry would pay for the roads.  They don't need government help for anything.


who told you that?
 
2013-03-21 01:12:06 PM
I'm all for lower taxes. But you don't lower taxes without lowering the financial burden on the government. It's like taking a job with lower pay and not adjusting your lifestyle to accommodate the dropped income.  So, here's the brakes: either you A) work out a tax system where everyone pays their fair share for the services that are provided to the community (you live here? use the fire/police/medical/whatever service? you get to pay for it), and you put your dollars into the programs and areas that need to be done to repay the people that are paying for it all, since they're collectively paying for you to provide a commonly organized service, or B) you stop taking people's money and cut cash flow to shiat that isn't necessary to the core operation of the community.

Kinda simple.  Of course, some people fail at basic economics and expect a gallon of milk from a cow they only fed enough to produce a quart, but hey, what do I know?
 
2013-03-21 01:12:51 PM
more toll roads is probably a better solution
 
2013-03-21 01:13:14 PM

skullkrusher: TheGogmagog: jake_lex: Wait, what, you're telling me that a decent infrastructure and functional government services might be a factor in getting business to locate in your state, not just tax breaks? What kind of voodoo economics is this?

I was told private industry would pay for the roads.  They don't need government help for anything.

who told you that?


progressivemetrowestsouth.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-03-21 01:14:15 PM
Trust us, guys... we're going to use those fees to fix the roads!

Aaannnd it's gone.
 
2013-03-21 01:15:27 PM

CPennypacker: skullkrusher: TheGogmagog: jake_lex: Wait, what, you're telling me that a decent infrastructure and functional government services might be a factor in getting business to locate in your state, not just tax breaks? What kind of voodoo economics is this?

I was told private industry would pay for the roads.  They don't need government help for anything.

who told you that?

[progressivemetrowestsouth.files.wordpress.com image 450x435]


heh good one. Still, I haven't heard of many people talking about the privatization of roads except the more ideologically driven right libertarians
 
2013-03-21 01:15:44 PM

verbaltoxin: xanadian: They also like the simple idea behind it. "It's a user fee," Snyder said. "If you use the roads more, you should pay more. If you use the roads less, you should pay less."

...

Ok, that actually makes some sense.  Doesn't take into account the poor slobs who *have* to commute an hour each day because their job is so f*cking far from home.

It does increase fuel costs for business owners though. The rich are rich partially because they use so much of our infrastructure and resources, and have earned the most reward from them. So a gas tax increase does affect them too. Trucking company costs are going to be higher, same with any UPS and FedEx branches, or any company with its own fleet.


Yes but oine contributing factor of the rich being rich is that they pass the extra cost of the infrastructure tax onto the customers.
 
2013-03-21 01:16:40 PM

skullkrusher: CPennypacker: skullkrusher: TheGogmagog: jake_lex: Wait, what, you're telling me that a decent infrastructure and functional government services might be a factor in getting business to locate in your state, not just tax breaks? What kind of voodoo economics is this?

I was told private industry would pay for the roads.  They don't need government help for anything.

who told you that?

[progressivemetrowestsouth.files.wordpress.com image 450x435]

heh good one. Still, I haven't heard of many people talking about the privatization of roads except the more ideologically driven right libertarians


I'm pretty sure he was going for the bolded part
 
2013-03-21 01:20:53 PM

CPennypacker: skullkrusher: CPennypacker: skullkrusher: TheGogmagog: jake_lex: Wait, what, you're telling me that a decent infrastructure and functional government services might be a factor in getting business to locate in your state, not just tax breaks? What kind of voodoo economics is this?

I was told private industry would pay for the roads.  They don't need government help for anything.

who told you that?

[progressivemetrowestsouth.files.wordpress.com image 450x435]

heh good one. Still, I haven't heard of many people talking about the privatization of roads except the more ideologically driven right libertarians

I'm pretty sure he was going for the bolded part


well, we both know that their point was to purposefully misinterpret what Obama said and not make the insinuation that business doesn't need infrastructure
 
2013-03-21 01:21:47 PM
So, Snyder has to fix 8 yrs. of Ganholm's ineptitude.  Or does 0bama own exclusive rights to that excuse?
 
2013-03-21 01:21:58 PM

verbaltoxin: Magorn: //// S'why most days I take a commuter bus that is $7 a day each way -cheaper than driving (no gas costs) and they at least get to use the carpool lanes

If there's any place that needs more mass transit and less PMV's, it's the beltway.


which is why I am a big fan of the Silver Line metro expansion that McDonnell has done his level best to kill- and why I'm pretty bitter about his creation of privaely-owned "HOT" lanes on the Beltway where you get to use the special lanes so long as you are willing to pony up a toll that varies by how bad the traffic is in the plebian lanes (and the fact that contract has a 'non-compete clause that forbid the state from adding any more free lanes to the beltway to ease congestion)
 
2013-03-21 01:23:13 PM
Atlanta is getting pretty bad, can't see the lines in half the places I drive, potholes everywhere. Of course, I live in a modest neighborhood, up the road in the land of McMansions, they get new traffic lights to cut ten minutes off their commute and we can't even get the cops to stop the 70mph speeders that use our street as a cut-through.
 
2013-03-21 01:23:29 PM

skullkrusher: CPennypacker: skullkrusher: TheGogmagog: jake_lex: Wait, what, you're telling me that a decent infrastructure and functional government services might be a factor in getting business to locate in your state, not just tax breaks? What kind of voodoo economics is this?

I was told private industry would pay for the roads.  They don't need government help for anything.

who told you that?

[progressivemetrowestsouth.files.wordpress.com image 450x435]

heh good one. Still, I haven't heard of many people talking about the privatization of roads except the more ideologically driven right libertarians


You should look into who owns the I-90 toll road here in Indiana.  I'll give you a hint: It's not even an American operation.
 
2013-03-21 01:23:57 PM

Magorn: /Live in VA, Work in DC
//means that driving to work involves a a private "greenway" with a $5 each way toll, $2 each way on the Va-owned toll road (which is set to double and then triple in the next couple years because VA won't pay for its share of the expansion of the Metro system out to Dulles airport) AND now Bobby MC wants to boost the Gas taxes and slap a toll on i-95 as well
///for those of you playing along at home that means effectively a $14/day $280/mo $3360/year "tax" that me and every other Nova resident has to pay regardless of income
//// S'why most days I take a commuter bus that is $7 a day each way -cheaper than driving (no gas costs) and they at least get to use the carpool lanes


I believe trying to push a plan like that in California would end in a good ol' fashioned lynching
 
2013-03-21 01:24:02 PM

DamnYankees: Let's get rid of this for all taxes! Let's pay for all securities laws with an equity tax. Let's pay for the military by a wealth tax (since the military protects your wealth). DOWN WITH GOVERNMENT!


I know your joking, but that's pretty much impossible. Its much easier to determine what people make in income in a year. Its ridiculously hard to determine someones "wealth" and its easy to hide wealth as well.
 
2013-03-21 01:27:30 PM

Zeb Hesselgresser: So, Snyder has to fix 8 yrs. of Ganholm's ineptitude.  Or does 0bama own exclusive rights to that excuse?


Hmm. here's an exercise for you:

Bush inherited a surplus, and promptly cut taxes by the entire amount of the tax surplus ($1.2 TRILLION) in a "temporary" tax cut.  He then extended those tax cuts while racking up record budget deficits and spending an additional Trillion dollars on a war in Iraq that didn;t even show up on the budget because it was emmergency supplemental spending for 7 years. Meanwhile his  economic regulators were so bad at their job that the precipitated the worst finacial crisis since the Great Depression, causing, among other things, the stock market to lose HALF of its value.

What did Granholm do that was equivalent?  Be very specific please, and explain how, as a sidebar, if Synder was the one who cut the taxes, how his curent lack of money could be her fault.

or were you just talking out of your ass because you have no actual rational defense of Synder's ineptitude
 
2013-03-21 01:28:13 PM
Wait, wait, wait a socialist second here!

They said that money into infrastructure was good because it helped spur economic development...but I could have sworn that the GOP was against large scale infrastructure spending because it didn't spur economic development OR create jobs.

What the fark is going on here?
 
2013-03-21 01:28:30 PM

Vodka Zombie: skullkrusher: CPennypacker: skullkrusher: TheGogmagog: jake_lex: Wait, what, you're telling me that a decent infrastructure and functional government services might be a factor in getting business to locate in your state, not just tax breaks? What kind of voodoo economics is this?

I was told private industry would pay for the roads.  They don't need government help for anything.

who told you that?

[progressivemetrowestsouth.files.wordpress.com image 450x435]

heh good one. Still, I haven't heard of many people talking about the privatization of roads except the more ideologically driven right libertarians

You should look into who owns the I-90 toll road here in Indiana.  I'll give you a hint: It's not even an American operation.


but it's basically run as a utility, isn't it? Under lease from the state with restrictions on fees and requirements for condition?
 
2013-03-21 01:30:01 PM
skullkrusher:

heh good one. Still, I haven't heard of many people talking about the privatization of roads except the more ideologically driven right libertarians

Heh - A guy I know believes the federal highways program was one of the most useless and wasteful government programs in history. See - he has a jeep and if he wants to drive to Texas (from DC) he could just go off road the whole way so why should he be forced to pay for roads between his house and Florida, let alone all the roads that go to places he doesn't intend to visit.

/CSB
 
2013-03-21 01:30:20 PM
Fun part is the news that came out showing ALL of Wisconsin's counties have budget issues now and their unemployment went UP. How's life for all of you Koch suckers?
 
2013-03-21 01:31:21 PM

xanadian: There aren't OTHER things you could tax that wouldn't have such a dramatic impact on the lower to middle class?

Oh, wait, that's right. You're a "Republican."

GFY, Snyder!


He's already raised income taxes on individuals.  It was the first thing he did after he took office.
 
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