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(CNN)   Old and busted: Union busting. New hotness: All temp workforce   (money.cnn.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, union busting, fixed costs, independent contractors, unions  
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4014 clicks; posted to Business » on 21 Mar 2013 at 12:48 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-20 08:43:42 PM  
It isn't asinine, subby.  It's adulthood.
 
2013-03-20 09:28:31 PM  
Sounds like if it is possible to do your job largely through email and teleconferences then you better look forward to competing with third world labor rates.

Which is a problem for the US. If this keeps up then not a lot of people are going to be willing to invest in numerous very expensive years of education if their earning potential is on par with burger flippers.
 
2013-03-21 12:38:18 AM  
I've had to work under all sorts of different weather conditions, so I don't see how this is news
 
2013-03-21 12:48:32 AM  
What could possibly go wrong?
 
2013-03-21 01:00:24 AM  
i thought this was going to be an article about the trend i've seen over and over again in the last 15 years - big company fires well-paid staff and hires new staff thru temp agency who make 1/2 or less as much, with no benefits, even after the temp agency gets their cut.

hmm... maybe it is about that.

yay profits!
 
2013-03-21 01:14:17 AM  
Time to go back and give teeth to labor law again.
 
2013-03-21 01:15:47 AM  

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Sounds like if it is possible to do your job largely through email and teleconferences then you better look forward to competing with third world labor rates.

Which is a problem for the US. If this keeps up then not a lot of people are going to be willing to invest in numerous very expensive years of education if their earning potential is on par with burger flippers.


There's always webcam sex.  It scales easily.
 
2013-03-21 01:21:21 AM  
The "All temp" model has been pretty ubiquitous for a decade or more. At least in every GOP destroyed "right to work" state. There are NO such things as "job security", "benefits" , or "companies that value the people that make them money". That shiat is farking fantasy and anyone who has actually worked for a living knows it.

Unless you get in on the ground floor of a small, growing startup and are actually valuable. Which does happen. Sometimes. Or start that small startup yourself.

Anything else in life, you will spend your days taking orders from some MBA who "knows about leadership", because they said so. And really knows literally nothing else, except how to network with fratbros and pour on the Axe body spray.
 
2013-03-21 01:21:50 AM  

the801: i thought this was going to be an article about the trend i've seen over and over again in the last 15 years - big company fires well-paid staff and hires new staff thru temp agency who make 1/2 or less as much, with no benefits, even after the temp agency gets their cut.

hmm... maybe it is about that.

yay profits!


It isn't about temp agencies.  It's about cutting out those middlemen and the nanny state, leaving more profits for workers and their customers (formerly known as employers).
 
2013-03-21 01:28:23 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: It's about cutting out those middlemen and the nanny state


lolwut?
 
2013-03-21 01:32:12 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: It isn't asinine, subby.  It's adulthood.


As a person who was a temp once, now has a full time non-unionized job that sometimes uses temps but only for short-term no-investment labor...there aren't enough profanities in my vocabulary to express my disdain for that statement.
 
2013-03-21 01:32:45 AM  
The "all temp" model is great if you don't have proprietary knowledge that needs to stay within the company's domain. My company, for example, is moving to the exact opposite model - we now have a "zero vendors" policy, the enforcement of which started on March 15. Of course, they didn't replace the headcount with employees, so we now have a different set of problems...
 
2013-03-21 01:44:40 AM  

FormlessOne: The "all temp" model is great if you don't have proprietary knowledge that needs to stay within the company's domain. My company, for example, is moving to the exact opposite model - we now have a "zero vendors" policy, the enforcement of which started on March 15. Of course, they didn't replace the headcount with employees, so we now have a different set of problems...


That reminds of showing up for a new temp agency job(like a decade ago) and being handed a Non-compete agreement the moment I walked in the door. Like what, you want me to have no employment options in my own field if you de-tempify me? fark you in your brown eye, assholes.

I walked right the fark back out again. Spat my gum on their sidewalk. Felt good about it.
 
2013-03-21 01:50:43 AM  
As someone who just turned down a job offer for a temp position with potential possibility of a full-time position at the end I'm getting a kick...

/Not really
//My dream position
///They upped their pay offer but not the time or benefits. Gotta pay for qualified candidates guys.
 
2013-03-21 02:20:02 AM  
The article is disingenuous.  None of these people manufacture anything.  Categorizing their activity as an "industry" is an insult to industry.
Number one is a middle man who profits while others store and deliver goods.
Number two is a middle man. Others "invest" online while others maintain the website.  He provides the sales pitch.
Number three is a middle man who pays others to recruit bilingual labor and plays salesman to those who require it.
Number four is a middle man who finds the cheapest labor to do the grunt work of retouching pics and writing text, and has someone else produce the physical books.
Number five is a search engine optimizer.
Number six is also an SEO.  She is just catering to a specific group of real producers of food.

These are anecdotes on bottom feeders.

Look around your living room.  Where was your TV/Blu ray/heating pad/carpet manufactured?  Look at what you're wearing.  Your phone.  Is any of it made in the US?

CNN is not addressing the causes of our economic trouble. It is offering idiotic distractions.
 
2013-03-21 02:23:03 AM  

neongoats: FormlessOne: The "all temp" model is great if you don't have proprietary knowledge that needs to stay within the company's domain. My company, for example, is moving to the exact opposite model - we now have a "zero vendors" policy, the enforcement of which started on March 15. Of course, they didn't replace the headcount with employees, so we now have a different set of problems...

That reminds of showing up for a new temp agency job(like a decade ago) and being handed a Non-compete agreement the moment I walked in the door. Like what, you want me to have no employment options in my own field if you de-tempify me? fark you in your brown eye, assholes.

I walked right the fark back out again. Spat my gum on their sidewalk. Felt good about it.


First one that tried that with me when I went freelance got a raised eyebrow, then a goodbye. The cute little blonde asked why I changed my mind. The answer was simple, "You can't pay me enough to limit my choice of future work."
 
2013-03-21 02:27:06 AM  
Yeah, and farmers are just middlemen. It's the cows and chickens who do all the real work.
 
2013-03-21 02:27:16 AM  

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Sounds like if it is possible to do your job largely through email and teleconferences then you better look forward to competing with third world labor rates.

Which is a problem for the US. If this keeps up then not a lot of people are going to be willing to invest in numerous very expensive years of education if their earning potential is on par with burger flippers.


Not really.  I get paid gobs of money fixing what third world labor rates gets you.  I love contracting.  Forces you to keep your skills sharp, constantly networking and to spend/save/invest/plan wisely.

It's actually a lot more stable than full time employment.  Your life is planned around change for good or worse.  After establishing yourself as the guy who can toss you a rope and pull tow you out of the mess you put yourself in, it's amazingly easy to get cushy contract work.

Even easier if you're decent with ERP/EDI integration.
 
2013-03-21 02:27:45 AM  

inglixthemad: neongoats: FormlessOne: The "all temp" model is great if you don't have proprietary knowledge that needs to stay within the company's domain. My company, for example, is moving to the exact opposite model - we now have a "zero vendors" policy, the enforcement of which started on March 15. Of course, they didn't replace the headcount with employees, so we now have a different set of problems...

That reminds of showing up for a new temp agency job(like a decade ago) and being handed a Non-compete agreement the moment I walked in the door. Like what, you want me to have no employment options in my own field if you de-tempify me? fark you in your brown eye, assholes.

I walked right the fark back out again. Spat my gum on their sidewalk. Felt good about it.

First one that tried that with me when I went freelance got a raised eyebrow, then a goodbye. The cute little blonde asked why I changed my mind. The answer was simple, "You can't pay me enough to limit my choice of future work."


Right, I mean, Im not totally averse to non compete agreements, but not for a farking temp position. That is just blatantly trying to strong arm you into modern day slavery.
 
2013-03-21 02:31:30 AM  

Lunchlady: As someone who just turned down a job offer for a temp position with potential possibility of a full-time position at the end I'm getting a kick...

/Not really
//My dream position
///They upped their pay offer but not the time or benefits. Gotta pay for qualified candidates guys.


What? No you don't. I only hire the top 1% who have enough chutzpah to take the risk of an unpaid internship at my business. If you don't want it enough to take a risk on me, I won't take a risk on you. The job market is such that I can afford to take the position of only hiring known quantities that are guaranteed to deliver value. A "dream position" is worth taking a risk on- even if its only temp pay.
 
2013-03-21 02:38:22 AM  

Triptolemus: Lunchlady: As someone who just turned down a job offer for a temp position with potential possibility of a full-time position at the end I'm getting a kick...

/Not really
//My dream position
///They upped their pay offer but not the time or benefits. Gotta pay for qualified candidates guys.

What? No you don't. I only hire the top 1% who have enough chutzpah to take the risk of an unpaid internship at my business. If you don't want it enough to take a risk on me, I won't take a risk on you. The job market is such that I can afford to take the position of only hiring known quantities that are guaranteed to deliver value. A "dream position" is worth taking a risk on- even if its only temp pay.


I kind of agree.. I would completely accept my "dream position" regardless of pay or benefits, but I'm a single guy with no wife or kids to pay for, so I have almost nothing in living expenses, heh.
 
2013-03-21 02:49:07 AM  

Triptolemus: Lunchlady: As someone who just turned down a job offer for a temp position with potential possibility of a full-time position at the end I'm getting a kick...

/Not really
//My dream position
///They upped their pay offer but not the time or benefits. Gotta pay for qualified candidates guys.

What? No you don't. I only hire the top 1% who have enough chutzpah to take the risk of an unpaid internship at my business. If you don't want it enough to take a risk on me, I won't take a risk on you. The job market is such that I can afford to take the position of only hiring known quantities that are guaranteed to deliver value. A "dream position" is worth taking a risk on- even if its only temp pay.


Dude, you're probably a street hot dog vendor. Don't act so crucial.
 
2013-03-21 02:56:50 AM  

Ishidan: BarkingUnicorn: It isn't asinine, subby.  It's adulthood.

As a person who was a temp once, now has a full time non-unionized job that sometimes uses temps but only for short-term no-investment labor...there aren't enough profanities in my vocabulary to express my disdain for that statement.


Read the case studies in TFA and describe to me any temps you find.  What you think are temporary employees are really freelancers: independent businesspeople who can find their own work, market themselves, negotiate satisfactory contracts, account for their revenues and expenses, and do their own taxes.   That's adulthood.  What is disdainful about it?
 
2013-03-21 03:02:01 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: BarkingUnicorn: It's about cutting out those middlemen and the nanny state

lolwut?


Did you RTFA?  It involves freelancers, not temporary employees.  It's business-to-business commerce, without intermediaries or government regulators who need a piece of the pie to do their jobs.  More pie for the people who do work and the people who need work done.
 
2013-03-21 03:04:54 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Lionel Mandrake: BarkingUnicorn: It's about cutting out those middlemen and the nanny state

lolwut?

Did you RTFA?  It involves freelancers, not temporary employees.  It's business-to-business commerce, without intermediaries or government regulators who need a piece of the pie to do their jobs.  More pie for the people who do work and the people who need work done.


Now I want some pie.
 
2013-03-21 03:05:37 AM  

neongoats: FormlessOne: The "all temp" model is great if you don't have proprietary knowledge that needs to stay within the company's domain. My company, for example, is moving to the exact opposite model - we now have a "zero vendors" policy, the enforcement of which started on March 15. Of course, they didn't replace the headcount with employees, so we now have a different set of problems...

That reminds of showing up for a new temp agency job(like a decade ago) and being handed a Non-compete agreement the moment I walked in the door. Like what, you want me to have no employment options in my own field if you de-tempify me? fark you in your brown eye, assholes.

I walked right the fark back out again. Spat my gum on their sidewalk. Felt good about it.


You did the right thing.  Non-compete contracts are unenforceable in many States.
 
2013-03-21 03:08:49 AM  

phibbsy: These are anecdotes on bottom feeders.


Where are minimum wage workers feeding?
 
2013-03-21 03:13:44 AM  

divx88: Not really. I get paid gobs of money fixing what third world labor rates gets you. I love contracting. Forces you to keep your skills sharp, constantly networking and to spend/save/invest/plan wisely.

It's actually a lot more stable than full time employment. Your life is planned around change for good or worse. After establishing yourself as the guy who can toss you a rope and pull tow you out of the mess you put yourself in, it's amazingly easy to get cushy contract work.


Finally, someone who knows the difference between a temporary employee and an independent contractor.  Namaste'!
 
2013-03-21 03:22:57 AM  
My wife works in the San Francisco area for a national wireless provider - you'd recognize the name.  She is a temp, which means she has a 30 month "contract" and then she's let go.  Where they came up with 30 months no one knows, but supposedly it skirts some labor reg that prevents them from having to give her any benefits.  If she went over 30 months maybe she could sue, we don't know.

She was hired by a "temp agency" which is just one of the real employees for the firm, who hires temps per order from the firm.  They were going to 1099 her, but she's done HR before and pointed out that, since she was actually going to be doing admin they couldn't claim a category that would let them use a 1099 and they agreed to W2 her. Now when she gets let go she'll at least be eligible for unemployment.

She supports a group of real employees that handle hundreds of cell locations - towers and such - as real estate projects.  They set up new towers to expand coverage, negotiate use leases for other cell service providers on their own towers, or rent space on competitor sites.

Her job is mainly to track where each site's document file is - at the site owner getting negotiated, in her office getting reviewed, off at corporate getting approved, completed and filed.  These are legal contracts with original signatures.  This is not entry level stuff, and she even has authority to order funding for third party providers.

She has a BA and the job detail requires that level of education. 10-15 years ago she would have been a regular employee, but some time back big employers found they could cut costs and get the skills they wanted without paying the full costs, and that really accelerated when the economy went south in 2007.  Once all the firms started doing it, there was no leverage for staff like her to go to a competitor who offered a real job instead of a temp position.

Of course, they still expect 100% loyalty from her.  They've been stringing her along with the possibility of getting hired as an employee, but as with Logan's Run nobody ever gets renewal.  In a few weeks her 30 months will end and that will be that.

And that appears to be the future for a lot of the US workforce.
 
2013-03-21 03:23:55 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Lionel Mandrake: BarkingUnicorn: It's about cutting out those middlemen and the nanny state

lolwut?

Did you RTFA?  It involves freelancers, not temporary employees.  It's business-to-business commerce, without intermediaries or government regulators who need a piece of the pie to do their jobs.  More pie for the people who do work and the people who need work done.


Well then none of them went "all temp", did they?  They went "all subcontractor".

Okay fine I'll read the article.
1.  Prick who hired pricks and got what he deserved.  Can't take the heat of being an actual supervisor.
2.  Online investment "tool" all right.  May your Romanians vacation when you least want it.  How's that pie taste-I dunno, it's been shipped to ROMANIA.
3.  EEYAH!  Okay now that I'm over that surprise closeup... a four person shop.  How disappointing.  He'd not be covered by the more onerous employment laws in the first place.
4.  And there goes that pie again, being shipped to Bangladesh.
5.  The freedom...to manage the business while on vacation.  You know you're pussywhipped by your 'job' when you say a sentence like that one.
6.  Finally somebody that deals in actual physical goods that might have some kind of regulation attached to them in the first place.  "But we haven't made a profit yet".  Well, how's THAT pie taste?

Wanna know what a longstanding, successful, "all -independent-contractor" company looks like?
DOOR TO DOOR SALESCOMPANIES, such as Kirby.
 
2013-03-21 03:36:49 AM  

divx88: It's actually a lot more stable than full time employment. Your life is planned around change for good or worse. After establishing yourself as the guy who can toss you a rope and pull... you out of the mess you put yourself in, it's amazingly easy to get cushy contract work.


This has been my experience as well, as a sub who survives by putting out fires for much MUCH larger companies than my own. Treat them right and they'll treat you right.

And speaking to the article, from a subs perspective, it's not really temp work if you've got a half dozen or more firms each throwing a bit of work your way.

You'll have plenty to do.

And as you say, you plan your life around potential change.

Myself, I tend to live poor... even when times are good. It helps in weathering those lean times.

/ 15 years self-employed after 10 years of working for "the man".
 
2013-03-21 03:59:40 AM  

Ishidan: Wanna know what a longstanding, successful, "all -independent-contractor" company looks like?
DOOR TO DOOR SALESCOMPANIES, such as Kirby.


Why would you compare the success of a company to the success of a person?  Do you think companies are people?  If you compare your own success to that of Kirby, you'll always be unhappy.
 
2013-03-21 04:01:53 AM  

Triptolemus: Lunchlady: As someone who just turned down a job offer for a temp position with potential possibility of a full-time position at the end I'm getting a kick...

/Not really
//My dream position
///They upped their pay offer but not the time or benefits. Gotta pay for qualified candidates guys.

What? No you don't. I only hire the top 1% who have enough chutzpah to take the risk of an unpaid internship at my business. If you don't want it enough to take a risk on me, I won't take a risk on you. The job market is such that I can afford to take the position of only hiring known quantities that are guaranteed to deliver value. A "dream position" is worth taking a risk on- even if its only temp pay.


Perhaps I should elaborate. I work in an industry that has a lot of "churn". The CEO of the company that made the offer used to be my regional sales manager at my current company. She in fact was the one who came after me when she found out I was interested. I wouldn't have required any training as my current job has near complete crossover with the other company.

They budgeted and posted this job with the expectation of only hiring temp in a high season and then dumping the person. They (and by that I mean the CEO of the company) offered me more money than they had planned but I'm not packing my life up and moving back East for 4 months and a good-bye.

You want good talent, you pay for it. You want a $15/hour disposable cog? Well good for you. Have fun training a new guy every 8 months when high season is coming up.
 
2013-03-21 04:03:21 AM  

TomD9938: divx88: It's actually a lot more stable than full time employment. Your life is planned around change for good or worse. After establishing yourself as the guy who can toss you a rope and pull... you out of the mess you put yourself in, it's amazingly easy to get cushy contract work.

This has been my experience as well, as a sub who survives by putting out fires for much MUCH larger companies than my own. Treat them right and they'll treat you right.

And speaking to the article, from a subs perspective, it's not really temp work if you've got a half dozen or more firms each throwing a bit of work your way.

You'll have plenty to do.

And as you say, you plan your life around potential change.

Myself, I tend to live poor... even when times are good. It helps in weathering those lean times.

/ 15 years self-employed after 10 years of working for "the man".


I've been on my own since 1979.  Everything you guys say is true.
 
2013-03-21 04:11:10 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: You did the right thing. Non-compete contracts are unenforceable in many States.


Really? Granted I've only looked at a few states, but everywhere I go they're enforceable within reason.
 
2013-03-21 04:13:20 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Ishidan: Wanna know what a longstanding, successful, "all -independent-contractor" company looks like?
DOOR TO DOOR SALESCOMPANIES, such as Kirby.

Why would you compare the success of a company to the success of a person?  Do you think companies are people?  If you compare your own success to that of Kirby, you'll always be unhappy.


That first bit depends.  All the cases in the article, the company and the person are identical since they are one-person proprietorships that only subcontract to other one-person proprietorships.  When you get to a company that is organized in the "traditional" way, with a board of directors at the top, an army of middle managers, and many hourly EMPLOYEES at the bottom, that's different.

And have you ever worked for Kirby?  I did, once, although almost fifteen years ago so they may have changed.
 
2013-03-21 04:14:58 AM  

Lunchlady: You want good talent, you pay for it. You want a $15/hour disposable cog? Well good for you. Have fun training a new guy every 8 months when high season is coming up.


This. The unreliability of having a freelancer there when you need it sort of seems to dispel most of the advantages, in my view. You train this person, build up a working relationship with them, and then they've got you by the balls if you're not willing to do it again. Which sounds a lot like what having an employee is like, except that you're probably a bit more paranoid about losing the person anyways, and then having to go through the training and relationship-building, again.

But I'm new to the world of business management, so it's possible I'm missing something.
 
2013-03-21 04:16:12 AM  
BarkingUnicorn:
I've been on my own since 1979.  Everything you guys say is true.

Dare I ask in what industry...
 
2013-03-21 04:18:56 AM  

ib_thinkin: BarkingUnicorn: You did the right thing. Non-compete contracts are unenforceable in many States.

Really? Granted I've only looked at a few states, but everywhere I go they're enforceable within reason.


I was in the recruiting biz for 12 years, nationwide.  I had reasons galore to learn damn near every State's non-compete law.
 
2013-03-21 04:28:19 AM  

Ishidan: BarkingUnicorn:
I've been on my own since 1979.  Everything you guys say is true.

Dare I ask in what industry...


Recruiting, career and HR consulting (yeah, like an arms dealer, I traded with both sides :-), sales, writing and editing/managing writers.
 
2013-03-21 04:35:20 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: I was in the recruiting biz for 12 years, nationwide. I had reasons galore to learn damn near every State's non-compete law.


Fair enough, but in that case, if the non-compete agreement is unenforceable in the state in question, wouldn't turning down the job be the wrong thing?
 
2013-03-21 04:41:45 AM  
This is merely a sign that American workers are paid more than they are worth.  The true value of a lower-tier American worker cannot afford a basic American lifestyle to which we're accustomed.

Something's got to give - the status quo is merely metastable.  It will eventually fall to equilibrium, perhaps in epic fashion.
 
2013-03-21 04:43:45 AM  

ib_thinkin: BarkingUnicorn: I was in the recruiting biz for 12 years, nationwide. I had reasons galore to learn damn near every State's non-compete law.

Fair enough, but in that case, if the non-compete agreement is unenforceable in the state in question, wouldn't turning down the job be the wrong thing?


Depends on your idea of integrity.  I mentioned their unenforceability to indicate that many States consider them unconscionable, too.
 
2013-03-21 04:46:22 AM  
You know its great and all that people are outsourcing this shiat but they better not complain about the lack of talent in this country or the fact that your taxes will go up because people need medicaid or foodstamps because these are the beasts that feed into these gigantic programs and cause our "deficit" to spiral out of control.  Not saying i don't understand what they are doing, i completely understand and it makes perfect sense but when your entire business model is designed to maximize profits don't be surprised when things outside your control start hurting your bottom line and society becomes worse for it.  There are several ways that those mentioned can have full time positions attached to them they just decided to forgo that and I completely understand why but again if everyone is a freelance consultant it really creates a skills gap and that is where overseas markets are really taking advantage of the USA our basic lack of skills, which tends to come with a service economy because lets face it, a service economy is just a bunch of people who never learned any skills and are there to kiss the customers ass at every turn.
 
2013-03-21 04:58:32 AM  

Myria: This is merely a sign that American workers are paid more than they are worth.  The true value of a lower-tier American worker cannot afford a basic American lifestyle to which we're accustomed.

Something's got to give - the status quo is merely metastable.  It will eventually fall to equilibrium, perhaps in epic fashion.


I mentioned the water cycle in another thread last week.  Very roughly, rain falls; flows to the oceans; water evaporates; clouds carry water back to where it rains again.

Water = wealth.  Taxes = evaporation.  Government = clouds.

There are ponds, lakes, and streams of wealth.  There are deserts.  Equilibrium is not even distribution or equality.

"For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land."  Deut.15:11

Humans can build dams.  They can pump water uphill.  But water still follows the water cycle.  Oceans will always be the biggest things on Earth.
 
2013-03-21 05:07:55 AM  

soia: You know its great and all that people are outsourcing this shiat but they better not complain about the lack of talent in this country or the fact that your taxes will go up because people need medicaid or foodstamps because these are the beasts that feed into these gigantic programs and cause our "deficit" to spiral out of control.  Not saying i don't understand what they are doing, i completely understand and it makes perfect sense but when your entire business model is designed to maximize profits don't be surprised when things outside your control start hurting your bottom line and society becomes worse for it.  There are several ways that those mentioned can have full time positions attached to them they just decided to forgo that and I completely understand why but again if everyone is a freelance consultant it really creates a skills gap and that is where overseas markets are really taking advantage of the USA our basic lack of skills, which tends to come with a service economy because lets face it, a service economy is just a bunch of people who never learned any skills and are there to kiss the customers ass at every turn.


Somebody stayed up way too late or got up way too early. :-)
 
2013-03-21 05:37:54 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Depends on your idea of integrity. I mentioned their unenforceability to indicate that many States consider them unconscionable, too.


I dunno; somebody offers me my dream job but makes me sign a piece of paper that has no legal effect whatsoever, what kind of an asshole do I have to be to turn that down?
 
2013-03-21 05:51:08 AM  

Ishidan: BarkingUnicorn: Ishidan: Wanna know what a longstanding, successful, "all -independent-contractor" company looks like?
DOOR TO DOOR SALESCOMPANIES, such as Kirby.

Why would you compare the success of a company to the success of a person?  Do you think companies are people?  If you compare your own success to that of Kirby, you'll always be unhappy.

That first bit depends.  All the cases in the article, the company and the person are identical since they are one-person proprietorships that only subcontract to other one-person proprietorships.  When you get to a company that is organized in the "traditional" way, with a board of directors at the top, an army of middle managers, and many hourly EMPLOYEES at the bottom, that's different.

And have you ever worked for Kirby?  I did, once, although almost fifteen years ago so they may have changed.


No, I haven't worked for Kirby.  Neither did you, if you were an independent door to door sales rep.

"Sole proprietorship" is the only real occupation. Everything else is illusion.  Illusion fosters suffering.
 
2013-03-21 06:00:55 AM  
48 post in and I can't believe I am the first. Drumroll........................

You NEVER go all temp.

Thank you, I'll be here all week, try the veal.
 
2013-03-21 06:13:04 AM  

phibbsy: CNN is not addressing the causes of our economic trouble. It is offering idiotic distractions.


I'm working in Germany for 3 weeks right now and I think I've figured out why Germany is kicking ass right now. Everything is MADE in Germany.
Cheap plastic buckets, not much more expensive than the crap Walmart has but better built? Made in Germany.

Toilets. Made in Germany. Tools. Made in Germany. Basically anything you find in Home Depot made in Germany. Imagine if everything Michigan used was made in Michigan.

And prices were pretty much the same as the US, yes a bit higher but quality was off the roof better. I bought 2 ratchets for about what I'd spend at sears and I bet I could beat the Craftsmen ratchets in half with what I bought. They're hands down heavier than any other 3/8" or 1/2" ratchet I've used and they really weren't that much more expensive.

I talked to a coworker about it and he said that people care that stuff is made in Germany. They know that it means another German has a job. I feel the average American sees no correlation between saving $.20 on something bought in China at Walmart and why he lost his job making widgets for Widgets Inc.

If you set up the economic model right (Foreign goods cost 90% of domestic. People will choose the cheaper good 80% of the time.) you could bring down an entire economy and work force by introducing 1 cheap thing somewhere else.

80% of the people buy the cheap Widget. Their bank accounts are actually higher, for now, because of the savings. Months go by and Widget USA, Inc needs to start shipping jobs to China or Mexico. So all of Widget USA's employees are now shopping at Walmart. And buying the cheap version of 10 other products. Months go by. USA companies that sell cheap version of those 10 other products do the same thing. Cycle repeats.

Meanwhile Widget USA, Inc's CEO is making $40M a year. All the actual employees are making $1 a day stamping the part out in China. Investors are happy because Widget USA, Inc is making profit now.

Congratulations, and welcome to America now.
 
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