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(The Daily Beast)   The verdict is in: courting the hipster "creative class" only serves to improve the lives of hipsters themselves. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to be at the artisanal cheese chop in 26 minutes   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 160
    More: Interesting, Richard Florida, Joel Kotkin, Alec MacGillis, bike paths, metropolitan areas by population, Raleigh-Durham, mid-life crises, Jennifer Granholm  
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7237 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Mar 2013 at 5:43 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-20 06:27:52 PM  
A. Hipsters don't have the capital to revitalized shiat. 18-30 year olds are the poorest generation since the greatest generation/lost generation (1920-30s).

B. The city planing of the last 70 years (sub-urbanization and motorification) has pretty much doomed most metropolitan districts to chaos as gas continues to get ever more expensive and the electric car continues to be a luxury of the elite (which it will).

The wealth concentration in this country will create more social instability as it has always done through out human history. Marx wasn't right about everything however the theory that history is almost always driven by class struggle is pretty solid.
 
2013-03-20 06:27:59 PM  
Subby, please stop associating hipsters with quality cheeses, I like cheese way too much to allow them to be associated with it.
 
2013-03-20 06:29:14 PM  

plutoniumfeather: come on, what did you expect? the guy's name is FLORIDA.


girlfrommalibu.files.wordpress.com

Frowns on your shenanigans
 
2013-03-20 06:32:36 PM  

Girion47: This is the same guy that wrote an article about how not having children means you hate America.


Yeah, his argument was basically "we need eternal population growth to subsidize the next generation's retirement".
 
2013-03-20 06:33:19 PM  

spicorama: So did anyone actually read all that BS and care to summarize it for the rest of us?

/tldr


guy made a ton of cash selling an idea of Hipsterization to local yokels.
He was wrong and now nobody likes him well that and the people that gave him cash are stone broke.
and hipsters suck the life out of everything they touch oh and nobody really understands them.
and Mike Bloomberg is a jerk for giving it a shot.
pretty much everyone sucks except the author.  Who is brilliant, ask him.
sort of a waste of time and pixels and bandwidth

and you owe me.
 
2013-03-20 06:35:08 PM  

rohar: Uh, subby.  I made my own damned cheese today.  It wasn't a hipster thing, it was an agrarian thing.  There's a farking difference.

/the hipsters don't clean up after the animals


Plus, it's kinda fun.

I've never made cheese, but I do a lot of canning.

//I've got some sauerkraut bubbling away at the moment. The cabbages needed to come out of the garden to make room for something else.
 
2013-03-20 06:35:20 PM  

Mimic_Octopus: this is the real problem, and hipsters cannot fix it :

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/james_howard_kunstler_dissects_subur b ia.html


Please tell me that isn't how even 10% of American cities look. And please tell me that most houses don't have blind sides but that windows have been put in them to increase the available light and to give people a view of the land around them.
 
2013-03-20 06:35:24 PM  
Hipsters were supposed to save us? Who knew?
 
2013-03-20 06:35:42 PM  

Ambitwistor: Girion47: This is the same guy that wrote an article about how not having children means you hate America.

Yeah, his argument was basically "we need eternal population growth to subsidize the next generation's retirement".


http://www.joelkotkin.com/content/00711-joel-fox-business-talking-ba by -bust

Here's the fat-fark on Fox talking about it.

Old people, I'm not here to subsidize you, in fact, I'd wish you would hurry up and off yourselves so that this country can turn itself around and get away from your greed, overpriced real estate, suburban sprawl, chain restaurants, horrifically unhealthy food, and socially conservative views.   You're ruining what we were told was a great nation, we'd like to see it that way.

/if you don't die, please don't vote.
 
2013-03-20 06:36:21 PM  

Carth: A whole community of people who reject mass produced products and prefer small independent shops and used goods? Yea fark those guys. In America we buy cheap crap from China and we like it.


Maybe it's just my area, but most of the folks I meet that say these things are important only say it. One of my students keeps talking about the evils of mass-production and wears an "anti consumer" shirt quite often.

He has never come to class without three Mac products and wears a rotating array of new Chuck Taylor's.

I know it's darn near impossible to not use corporate items, but guys like this (and I know he's an extreme example) strike me as absolutely disingenuous.

Is there really a large group that honestly works toward these goals? If so, I think that's great. I'm just afraid that the posers I see may be the norm.
 
2013-03-20 06:36:59 PM  
sounds like they have forgotten what builds communities and why people want to live in them for some pc idea of what america should become.
Rather than education and industry combining and making everyone wealthy, we have 'service industries' like mickey d and great clips, only with trendy names and products, but, not everyone can cut hair or sling hash and make a decent living...
meanwhile, our government has allowed industry to move out of the country as well as the tax base said industry provided, and allowed uneducated immigrants to overpopulate the work force and having anchor babies so they can't be deported easily.
don't worry tho, the millionaires and billionaires in government have YOUR best interests at heart...
 
2013-03-20 06:38:56 PM  
Hipsters come in and turn around neighborhoods in cities so families like mine can eventually move to that neighborhood because it now has lower crime and more to offer families. I am a fan of hipsters. The same can be said for gay communities cleaning up suspect neighborhoods.

This world would be better off with more gays and hipsters.
 
2013-03-20 06:39:06 PM  
All right, it's a Hipster Hate™  thread!
 
2013-03-20 06:40:02 PM  

Sorry, but according to Internet by-laws, use of that meme requires that I post this picture of what subby, in all probability, may look like:




i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-20 06:41:38 PM  

Spiralmonkey: What constitutes an artisanal cheese chop?  Do they use hand made guillotines lubricated with the armpit secretions of 80 year old French nuns?


And this is where I stopped reading this thread
s1d6.turboimagehost.com
 
2013-03-20 06:42:39 PM  
Notice how the author cites New York, then in the next paragraph leaves it out when he mentions the vanillaness of many of these cities, or that he sites the focus of money on the artistic class at the same time noting the increase in spending on the poor?  Or that he confuses correlation and causation?  Look, I hate hipsters almost as much as Cartman hates hippies, but rust belt cities were often built on their closeness to key resources.  If your coal runs out, your city may go to crap.  Ironically, the highway system may have doomed Detroit.  When you need the Great Lakes and rail to ship stuff, Detroit was great.  So was Buffalo.  What do they have now that you can't accomplish by road?  Cheap labor?  You can find that anywhere, and probably someplace sunnier.  Towns that are doing well?  They have international seaports, resources (oil), or great weather, or some combination of those things.  (Okay, Chicago sort of breaks those rules, but most cities follow those rules.)  If you don't have one of those things, you make up for it with a lot of social spending.
 
2013-03-20 06:43:57 PM  

The number 7 and the letter Q!: Carth: A whole community of people who reject mass produced products and prefer small independent shops and used goods? Yea fark those guys. In America we buy cheap crap from China and we like it.

Maybe it's just my area, but most of the folks I meet that say these things are important only say it. One of my students keeps talking about the evils of mass-production and wears an "anti consumer" shirt quite often.

He has never come to class without three Mac products and wears a rotating array of new Chuck Taylor's.

I know it's darn near impossible to not use corporate items, but guys like this (and I know he's an extreme example) strike me as absolutely disingenuous.

Is there really a large group that honestly works toward these goals? If so, I think that's great. I'm just afraid that the posers I see may be the norm.


What I like the idea of is what I have heard from the old people that talk about the days of small independent shops, used goods, all of that.  These are the WWII generation though, and what's weird is this sort of going back (or maybe wanting to go back) to that old model because of what the excesses of the Boomers and early Gen Xers are accustomed to and are perceived as major factors in today's economic climate.
 
2013-03-20 06:45:32 PM  
Do you like Huey Lewis and the news? ... He said it's hip to be square.

coolaggregator.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-03-20 06:45:59 PM  

HoratioGates: Notice how the author cites New York, then in the next paragraph leaves it out when he mentions the vanillaness of many of these cities, or that he sites the focus of money on the artistic class at the same time noting the increase in spending on the poor?  Or that he confuses correlation and causation?  Look, I hate hipsters almost as much as Cartman hates hippies, but rust belt cities were often built on their closeness to key resources.  If your coal runs out, your city may go to crap.  Ironically, the highway system may have doomed Detroit.  When you need the Great Lakes and rail to ship stuff, Detroit was great.  So was Buffalo.  What do they have now that you can't accomplish by road?  Cheap labor?  You can find that anywhere, and probably someplace sunnier.  Towns that are doing well?  They have international seaports, resources (oil), or great weather, or some combination of those things.  (Okay, Chicago sort of breaks those rules, but most cities follow those rules.)  If you don't have one of those things, you make up for it with a lot of social spending.


Chicago has a huge financial sector and is still a major stop for shipping good whether by rail or road or even via the Great Lakes.

The automobile built and destroyed Detroit.  First it brought the wealth, then it allowed an easy means to live in a nicer place while still working in the city itself.
 
2013-03-20 06:47:37 PM  
ZeroCorpse

One suspects it was a homophobic response, because they didn't like living next to fabulous houses full of fabulous people, but whatever the case, the negative elements started to leave and were replaced by people who were, by and large, better educated and employed in higher-paying jobs or at least involved in intellectual or artistic pursuits.

Or they were socially cleansed by rising costs of living which meant they had to move into an even more run-down location. But you know, come up with whatever lets you feel happy about poor people being forced to live in ghettos.
 
2013-03-20 06:49:19 PM  

Girion47: This is the same guy that wrote an article about how not having children means you hate America.


Citation needed.  Got a link?


fark this old dirt-bag and his anti-youth rants.   He's just pissed the younger generation has become more wise than his old selfish boomer ass.

And herein lies the problem with the younger generation.  Poor reading comprehension and an undeserved attitude of superiority.
 
2013-03-20 06:49:57 PM  
Oh this is going to make some people I know mad.
 
2013-03-20 06:50:41 PM  

Ambitwistor: Girion47: This is the same guy that wrote an article about how not having children means you hate America.

Yeah, his argument was basically "we need eternal population growth to subsidize the next generation's retirement".


Which is totally the same thing.
 
2013-03-20 06:52:08 PM  

EnglishMan: ZeroCorpse

One suspects it was a homophobic response, because they didn't like living next to fabulous houses full of fabulous people, but whatever the case, the negative elements started to leave and were replaced by people who were, by and large, better educated and employed in higher-paying jobs or at least involved in intellectual or artistic pursuits.

Or they were socially cleansed by rising costs of living which meant they had to move into an even more run-down location. But you know, come up with whatever lets you feel happy about poor people being forced to live in ghettos.


These were middle class and lower middle class white folks, mostly. I don't think the white folks moved to the ghettos. Most likely, they moved to Hamtramk. The poor people were in Detroit, and they've pretty much stayed there for the past 75 years.

But you know, come up with whatever lets you feel morally superior to strangers on the Internet.
 
2013-03-20 06:52:51 PM  

andychrist420: Citation needed. Got a link?


How farking lazy do you have to be to not click on the author's name and see it's the second article on the page Mr. I Know Better Than You?
 
2013-03-20 06:53:50 PM  

Girion47: Ambitwistor: Girion47: This is the same guy that wrote an article about how not having children means you hate America.

Yeah, his argument was basically "we need eternal population growth to subsidize the next generation's retirement".

http://www.joelkotkin.com/content/00711-joel-fox-business-talking-ba by -bust

Here's the fat-fark on Fox talking about it.

Old people, I'm not here to subsidize you, in fact, I'd wish you would hurry up and off yourselves so that this country can turn itself around and get away from your greed, overpriced real estate, suburban sprawl, chain restaurants, horrifically unhealthy food, and socially conservative views.   You're ruining what we were told was a great nation, we'd like to see it that way.

/if you don't die, please don't vote.


You can always learn from your elders.
 
2013-03-20 06:55:16 PM  

Caffandtranqs: The number 7 and the letter Q!: Carth: A whole community of people who reject mass produced products and prefer small independent shops and used goods? Yea fark those guys. In America we buy cheap crap from China and we like it.

Maybe it's just my area, but most of the folks I meet that say these things are important only say it. One of my students keeps talking about the evils of mass-production and wears an "anti consumer" shirt quite often.

He has never come to class without three Mac products and wears a rotating array of new Chuck Taylor's.

I know it's darn near impossible to not use corporate items, but guys like this (and I know he's an extreme example) strike me as absolutely disingenuous.

Is there really a large group that honestly works toward these goals? If so, I think that's great. I'm just afraid that the posers I see may be the norm.

What I like the idea of is what I have heard from the old people that talk about the days of small independent shops, used goods, all of that.  These are the WWII generation though, and what's weird is this sort of going back (or maybe wanting to go back) to that old model because of what the excesses of the Boomers and early Gen Xers are accustomed to and are perceived as major factors in today's economic climate.


That does sound cool. If someone is being sincere I can respect them, even if I don't choose the same. If there's an actual way to breathe back some life to certain areas, I'm all for it.

Guess it's like the flower generation. How many Hippies really believed vs how many were following a trend (and a permissive one, at that).

I've always bought used myself, but that usually comes from low income. Oh well.
 
2013-03-20 06:55:31 PM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Spiralmonkey: What constitutes an artisanal cheese chop?  Do they use hand made guillotines lubricated with the armpit secretions of 80 year old French nuns?  Is it somewhere you can take your own home-made caboc and they'll cut it into daisy-shaped rounds that fit exactly onto your hand-pressed oatcakes seasoned with lavender?  Do they make motorbikes out of matured Wensleydale?

A true hipster cheese shop doesn't sell cheese.


Not to you, anyway.
 
2013-03-20 06:58:17 PM  

HoratioGates: Notice how the author cites New York, then in the next paragraph leaves it out when he mentions the vanillaness of many of these cities, or that he sites the focus of money on the artistic class at the same time noting the increase in spending on the poor?  Or that he confuses correlation and causation?  Look, I hate hipsters almost as much as Cartman hates hippies, but rust belt cities were often built on their closeness to key resources.  If your coal runs out, your city may go to crap.   Ironically, the highway system may have doomed Detroit.  When you need the Great Lakes and rail to ship stuff, Detroit was great.  So was Buffalo.  What do they have now that you can't accomplish by road?  Cheap labor?  You can find that anywhere, and probably someplace sunnier.  Towns that are doing well?  They have international seaports, resources (oil), or great weather, or some combination of those things.  (Okay, Chicago sort of breaks those rules, but most cities follow those rules.)  If you don't have one of those things, you make up for it with a lot of social spending.


In 2 ways:

1) The way you mentioned

2) Because Detroit has the single best urban highway network I've ever seen in an American city for it's population, it's fairly trivial to live 20 or 30 miles away from work.  So even if there are jobs in downtown, the people who work them live elsewhere, meaning that any benefits get heavily diluted.  The Greater Detroit Metro Area is doing great (and has been doing at least OK since it's explosion after WW2), Detroit is screwed.
 
2013-03-20 06:59:13 PM  

meat0918: Isn't this just a rant about gentrification in general?

Especially this part -"The rewards of the "creative class" strategy, he notes, "flow disproportionately to more highly-skilled knowledge, professional and creative workers," since the wage increases that blue-collar and lower-skilled workers see "disappear when their higher housing costs are taken into account."  "


Yep, I despise hipsters personally, but it still is the idea of gentrification in general that is the main evil in this. (plus if Hipsters themselves weren't such arseholes about being so "unique" and independent; while cashing their trust fund checks from their parents, stealing their ideas and music from other subcultures, and stealing their looks from hobos!) But the article is relatively correct, Hipsters aren't the answer to anti-Corporate greed, they are simply the catalyst that reverses the phenomenon of "white flight" and increased gentrification when wealthier people return to the city because some "artists" are there and the wealthy people who arrive want to acquire the same authenticity that the Hipsters claim to have.
 
2013-03-20 07:03:01 PM  

GAT_00: andychrist420: Citation needed. Got a link?

How farking lazy do you have to be to not click on the author's name and see it's the second article on the page Mr. I Know Better Than You?


So I'm supposed to research your hyperbolic claim?  I'll concede the argument if you can produce a quote that he said, "if you don't have children, you hate America"  I'll wait.
 
2013-03-20 07:03:02 PM  

The number 7 and the letter Q!: Caffandtranqs: The number 7 and the letter Q!: Carth: A whole community of people who reject mass produced products and prefer small independent shops and used goods? Yea fark those guys. In America we buy cheap crap from China and we like it.

Maybe it's just my area, but most of the folks I meet that say these things are important only say it. One of my students keeps talking about the evils of mass-production and wears an "anti consumer" shirt quite often.

He has never come to class without three Mac products and wears a rotating array of new Chuck Taylor's.

I know it's darn near impossible to not use corporate items, but guys like this (and I know he's an extreme example) strike me as absolutely disingenuous.

Is there really a large group that honestly works toward these goals? If so, I think that's great. I'm just afraid that the posers I see may be the norm.

What I like the idea of is what I have heard from the old people that talk about the days of small independent shops, used goods, all of that.  These are the WWII generation though, and what's weird is this sort of going back (or maybe wanting to go back) to that old model because of what the excesses of the Boomers and early Gen Xers are accustomed to and are perceived as major factors in today's economic climate.

That does sound cool. If someone is being sincere I can respect them, even if I don't choose the same. If there's an actual way to breathe back some life to certain areas, I'm all for it.

Guess it's like the flower generation. How many Hippies really believed vs how many were following a trend (and a permissive one, at that).

I've always bought used myself, but that usually comes from low income. Oh well.


I believe it is cool as well, but the younger generation is not able to do the things the older generation did like fix their cars on their own, build entire additions to their homes and fix their plumbing and electrical problems on their own, make food from scratch, etc.  Not many had much use for computers and all of our gadgets.  Therein lies the significant difference; self-sustainability (although most people in rural areas have inclinations for both self-sustenance and gadget knowledge).
 
2013-03-20 07:05:14 PM  

cannotsuggestaname: yeah, because SF became a bastion of the creative workforce over night.


SF certainly like to think they are.
 
2013-03-20 07:05:35 PM  

meat0918: rohar: Uh, subby.  I made my own damned cheese today.  It wasn't a hipster thing, it was an agrarian thing.  There's a farking difference.

/the hipsters don't clean up after the animals

Plus, it's kinda fun.

I've never made cheese, but I do a lot of canning.

//I've got some sauerkraut bubbling away at the moment. The cabbages needed to come out of the garden to make room for something else.


I hate you so much.  I just smoked 5lbs of home grown pork sausage yesterday.  I'd pay well for decent 'kraut.  It'd go well together.  I'll be in the Seattle area Monday next week, trades?
 
2013-03-20 07:06:23 PM  
I see Hartford is on his list so I'm going to rant about everything that Hartford did wrong.

First, Hartford sucks. You don't need to be from around here to know that. The only thing that probably strikes a chord in most people's mind is that it once had the Whalers.  Since they left everybody forgot about Hartford, including people that live only 5 minutes away.

So it seems Hartford built some huge trendy luxury apartments for the "creative class". Of course there is only boring insurance jobs around here so I don't know how "hip" they can be.   However, Hartford also as a "War on cars" mentality. Sure that probably works in San Fran and New York, but Hartford's "Safe zone" is only about 4 city blocks.  After that, you're essentially in the Mad Max beyond the thunderdome territory in all 4 directions.  Having a car just working in the city, never mind living in it, is a huge pain in the ass, and the meter maids are absolutely relentless. Every year it seems the number of street parking spots gets smaller and smaller, and the few lots, some of them owned by the city, seemed to only increase their price more and more.  Connecticut is a suburban zone, and literally everything requires having a car.  Hartford didn't even have a grocery store for the longest time, but only just recently is there now a small market where you can actually get food without having to go a restaurant or venture in to crimeland.  Also even in this safe zone, don't be surprised to see crackheads and homeless people camping out your door at night. (by that, I mean close up your shades at night and sleep in your bathtub with a shotgun).

Hartford also hates drinking, which is ironic, since it's probably the only that actually brings people TO hartford besides work.  Most of the bars are shiatty Top40 meatgrinders that have pretty much same personality at each one.  There is actually a surging local craft beer market in Connecticut (all of them course, OUTSIDE of Hartford), but as far as I can tell, this was entirely a private sector initiative.  My main gripe on this is we've saw millions of dollars go to this plush strip called Adrien's Landing which would border the polluted river that runs through Hartford. They could have actually made this somewhat nice, with some cool waterside bars and restaurants, loud music, etc., but instead they just put a bunch of miscellaneous bullshiat nobody uses.  There is a park with a few swings and slides, a "Riverfront" which is absolutely nothing but some concrete steps, and then they put some horribly ugly Connecticut Science Museum, which much to our dismay, turned out to be nothing at all like the Boston Science Museum.  Besides a couple tame festivals a couple times a year, the totality of the Greater Hartford area never use this Riverfront area that was hyped up for about 2 decades.

Also, I forgot to mention that the bars close at 12:30 weeknights and 1:30 weekends, but this is a State rule that should probably be overturned.

I'm actually a fan of Hipster areas. Even though I'm getting older i like walking by weird shops of things i've never heard of before, instead of the same women's clothing and frozen yogurt places that fill CT suburbs.  But whatever this guy told Hartford to do was absolutely complete bullshiat.  Trendy areas like Williamsburg and the former ghettoes of Boston likely sprang up simply due to proximity of their giant technology and professional industries.  It wasn't central planning, they built it themselves because they like doing fun things that you can usually do for free, they like drinking, and gasp, doing drugs too.  So everything built up around them while they were doing it.  Trying to force this shiat in while expecting to charge up and coming yuppies an arm and leg for everything they do for the privilege of letting them be there is only going to wind up a massive failure.

tldr: Hartford sucks.
 
2013-03-20 07:08:21 PM  

andychrist420: GAT_00: andychrist420: Citation needed. Got a link?

How farking lazy do you have to be to not click on the author's name and see it's the second article on the page Mr. I Know Better Than You?

So I'm supposed to research your hyperbolic claim?  I'll concede the argument if you can produce a quote that he said, "if you don't have children, you hate America"  I'll wait.


Seriously, go to the article, the one I'm referring to is in the sidebar.
 
2013-03-20 07:10:58 PM  
Caffandtranqs: I believe it is cool as well, but the younger generation is not able to do the things the older generation did like fix their cars on their own, build entire additions to their homes and fix their plumbing and electrical problems on their own, make food from scratch, etc. Not many had much use for computers and all of our gadgets. Therein lies the significant difference; self-sustainability (although most people in rural areas have inclinations for both self-sustenance and gadget knowledge).

Some of that is things like newer cars that are almost impossible to fix on your own anymore.

But fixing your own plumbing, minor house repairs?  Hipsters got that covered (in glitter and using salvaged or reused parts a lot of time).  That is THE hip thing right now, self-sustainability.

Yeah, they might reference a blog instead of a Chilton repair manual, but the point is do it yourself is a necessity for many younger folks, cause they're broke man. They're broke.
 
2013-03-20 07:12:08 PM  

The number 7 and the letter Q!: Carth: A whole community of people who reject mass produced products and prefer small independent shops and used goods? Yea fark those guys. In America we buy cheap crap from China and we like it.

Maybe it's just my area, but most of the folks I meet that say these things are important only say it. One of my students keeps talking about the evils of mass-production and wears an "anti consumer" shirt quite often.

He has never come to class without three Mac products and wears a rotating array of new Chuck Taylor's.

I know it's darn near impossible to not use corporate items, but guys like this (and I know he's an extreme example) strike me as absolutely disingenuous.

Is there really a large group that honestly works toward these goals? If so, I think that's great. I'm just afraid that the posers I see may be the norm.


For electronics I agree there isn't really any other options than mass produced products (although you can buy them from locally owned shops which is a bit better). For clothes, food and just about everything else you can get some great local or at least American made products.

I think the difference is between a hipster and a poser. They both like to say they support local shops but only one actually does.
 
2013-03-20 07:12:55 PM  

SpiderQueenDemon: Hipsters, I think, are people whose health insurance doesn't cover actual therapy and who have resorted to baristas instead.


well. Now that we've changed the rules, that would be 'sucking off the parental paid health insurance teat up to the age of 26'
 
2013-03-20 07:13:49 PM  
I'm kind of surprised no one has yet mentioned the rise of hipster coffee-shops that have over-populated many urban areas in the past as-many-years since this whole "creative-development" started.
 
2013-03-20 07:14:50 PM  

meat0918: Caffandtranqs: I believe it is cool as well, but the younger generation is not able to do the things the older generation did like fix their cars on their own, build entire additions to their homes and fix their plumbing and electrical problems on their own, make food from scratch, etc. Not many had much use for computers and all of our gadgets. Therein lies the significant difference; self-sustainability (although most people in rural areas have inclinations for both self-sustenance and gadget knowledge).

Some of that is things like newer cars that are almost impossible to fix on your own anymore.

But fixing your own plumbing, minor house repairs?  Hipsters got that covered (in glitter and using salvaged or reused parts a lot of time).  That is THE hip thing right now, self-sustainability.

Yeah, they might reference a blog instead of a Chilton repair manual, but the point is do it yourself is a necessity for many younger folks, cause they're broke man. They're broke.


Interesting....
 
2013-03-20 07:15:14 PM  

Caffandtranqs: The number 7 and the letter Q!: Caffandtranqs: The number 7 and the letter Q!: Carth: A whole community of people who reject mass produced products and prefer small independent shops and used goods? Yea fark those guys. In America we buy cheap crap from China and we like it.

Maybe it's just my area, but most of the folks I meet that say these things are important only say it. One of my students keeps talking about the evils of mass-production and wears an "anti consumer" shirt quite often.

He has never come to class without three Mac products and wears a rotating array of new Chuck Taylor's.

I know it's darn near impossible to not use corporate items, but guys like this (and I know he's an extreme example) strike me as absolutely disingenuous.

Is there really a large group that honestly works toward these goals? If so, I think that's great. I'm just afraid that the posers I see may be the norm.

What I like the idea of is what I have heard from the old people that talk about the days of small independent shops, used goods, all of that.  These are the WWII generation though, and what's weird is this sort of going back (or maybe wanting to go back) to that old model because of what the excesses of the Boomers and early Gen Xers are accustomed to and are perceived as major factors in today's economic climate.

That does sound cool. If someone is being sincere I can respect them, even if I don't choose the same. If there's an actual way to breathe back some life to certain areas, I'm all for it.

Guess it's like the flower generation. How many Hippies really believed vs how many were following a trend (and a permissive one, at that).

I've always bought used myself, but that usually comes from low income. Oh well.

I believe it is cool as well, but the younger generation is not able to do the things the older generation did like fix their cars on their own, build entire additions to their homes and fix their plumbing and electrical problems on their own, make food from scratch, etc.  Not many had much use for computers and all of our gadgets.  Therein lies the significant difference; self-sustainability (although most people in rural areas have inclinations for both self-sustenance and gadget knowledge).


I can see the challenge you mention here. Heck, I'm tail-end Gen X and the only reason I can keep an old car running (not restored, and, often, not even street legal) was absolute necessity and a Haynes manual. I can identify what things are in the new car my wife got me, but repairs are probably beyond me.

If it's mainly a knowledge issue, I think that interest and learning might fix it. Maybe we can learn to head on the right direction (don't know why, but I'm optimistic today).
 
2013-03-20 07:15:46 PM  
Did anyone point out that hipsters suck?
 
2013-03-20 07:19:38 PM  
FTA : the trend is to declare good-paying blue collar professions a product of the past.

Those professions are anything but obsolete.

Sounds more like something someone who doesn't want to get their hands dirty might say.
 
2013-03-20 07:20:52 PM  

you_idiot: Did anyone point out that hipsters suck?


Yes, but they were all wearing foghat t-shirts.
 
2013-03-20 07:21:52 PM  

The number 7 and the letter Q!: Caffandtranqs: The number 7 and the letter Q!: Caffandtranqs: The number 7 and the letter Q!: Carth: A whole community of people who reject mass produced products and prefer small independent shops and used goods? Yea fark those guys. In America we buy cheap crap from China and we like it.

Maybe it's just my area, but most of the folks I meet that say these things are important only say it. One of my students keeps talking about the evils of mass-production and wears an "anti consumer" shirt quite often.

He has never come to class without three Mac products and wears a rotating array of new Chuck Taylor's.

I know it's darn near impossible to not use corporate items, but guys like this (and I know he's an extreme example) strike me as absolutely disingenuous.

Is there really a large group that honestly works toward these goals? If so, I think that's great. I'm just afraid that the posers I see may be the norm.

What I like the idea of is what I have heard from the old people that talk about the days of small independent shops, used goods, all of that.  These are the WWII generation though, and what's weird is this sort of going back (or maybe wanting to go back) to that old model because of what the excesses of the Boomers and early Gen Xers are accustomed to and are perceived as major factors in today's economic climate.

That does sound cool. If someone is being sincere I can respect them, even if I don't choose the same. If there's an actual way to breathe back some life to certain areas, I'm all for it.

Guess it's like the flower generation. How many Hippies really believed vs how many were following a trend (and a permissive one, at that).

I've always bought used myself, but that usually comes from low income. Oh well.

I believe it is cool as well, but the younger generation is not able to do the things the older generation did like fix their cars on their own, build entire additions to their homes and fix their plumbing and electrical problems on their o ...


I'm there too...tail end of Gen X.  It is difficult attempting positivity these days, but apparently it can be done with my crabby ass as well.  I have been learning what my scowl-faced tough as nails grandmother always wanted me to learn to do on my own straight from her instruction.  It's possible.
 
2013-03-20 07:23:15 PM  
Dang! While I was typing, several of you chimed on with info I didn't know.

It's nice to see that there are folks that are working towards knowledge and sustainability, and not just posing. I can only hope that continues.

I must go make toddler dinners. Thanks for the conversation, kind people.
 
2013-03-20 07:24:57 PM  
1.bp.blogspot.com

What an artisanal cheese shop might look like.
 
2013-03-20 07:25:44 PM  
I think "hipster" has become the modern equivalent of "witch". If you dislike, or envy, or are made to feel vaguely inferior by someone, you just call them a "hipster".
Since, like "witch", it has no real-world criteria, you can't be rebutted easily, and you can feel better about yourself for a brief instant, until the world slaps you upside the head, once again, with the reality of what a pitiful, pathetic mediocrity you actually are.
Have a nice day! :)
 
2013-03-20 07:27:47 PM  

The number 7 and the letter Q!: One of my students keeps talking about the evils of mass-production and wears an "anti consumer" shirt quite often.

He has never come to class without three Mac products and wears a rotating array of new Chuck Taylor's.


THIS.

I work at a U. and see on a daily basis how "the younger (than myself) kids" of today really ARE clueless to a large extent. And I'm only semi-generalizing. I won't go on and on but, heck, I see them all being "sustainable" and whatever you'd call the modern concept of wanting to be a hippie (except for the Business School folks, 'natch) while at the same time owning and carrying every tech-heavy thing they can carry. Who pays for not only their devices but for the monthly costs? If they grow one or two tomato plants and eat only Ramen does that offset the sheer cost of everything else? And, to be clear, it's not like these kids are practicing Buddhism and asking others to "donate" to them.

/stepping off the soapbox; getting another drink.
 
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