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(The Daily Beast)   The verdict is in: courting the hipster "creative class" only serves to improve the lives of hipsters themselves. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to be at the artisanal cheese chop in 26 minutes   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 160
    More: Interesting, Richard Florida, Joel Kotkin, Alec MacGillis, bike paths, metropolitan areas by population, Raleigh-Durham, mid-life crises, Jennifer Granholm  
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7231 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Mar 2013 at 5:43 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-20 04:07:45 PM  
cdn.shopify.com
 
2013-03-20 04:23:52 PM  
That really needs the Ironic tag.
 
2013-03-20 04:35:32 PM  
Artisanal Snake Oil Salesman.
 
2013-03-20 04:46:10 PM  
yeah, because SF became a bastion of the creative workforce over night.
 
2013-03-20 04:46:22 PM  
Look, we can make fun of hipsters all you want, and I frequently do, but lets not make fun of excellent cheese, ok?
 
2013-03-20 04:50:58 PM  
What constitutes an artisanal cheese chop?  Do they use hand made guillotines lubricated with the armpit secretions of 80 year old French nuns?  Is it somewhere you can take your own home-made caboc and they'll cut it into daisy-shaped rounds that fit exactly onto your hand-pressed oatcakes seasoned with lavender?  Do they make motorbikes out of matured Wensleydale?
 
2013-03-20 05:43:40 PM  
I'm making a tiny desk concert of vintage 70's analog synthesizers with lyrics by a Tibetan throat singer. Ramsang Normchamp. You've probably never heard of him.
 
2013-03-20 05:45:09 PM  
nice play subhipmitter
 
2013-03-20 05:48:09 PM  

Spiralmonkey: What constitutes an artisanal cheese chop?  Do they use hand made guillotines lubricated with the armpit secretions of 80 year old French nuns?  Is it somewhere you can take your own home-made caboc and they'll cut it into daisy-shaped rounds that fit exactly onto your hand-pressed oatcakes seasoned with lavender?  Do they make motorbikes out of matured Wensleydale?


A true hipster cheese shop doesn't sell cheese.
 
2013-03-20 05:48:13 PM  
Thanks for gentrification.
 
2013-03-20 05:48:24 PM  
Couldn't be bothered reading this.  Or rather could care less.  Rather hear about lesbian jello wrestlers.
 
2013-03-20 05:48:56 PM  

Spiralmonkey: What constitutes an artisanal cheese chop?  Do they use hand made guillotines lubricated with the armpit secretions of 80 year old French nuns?  Is it somewhere you can take your own home-made caboc and they'll cut it into daisy-shaped rounds that fit exactly onto your hand-pressed oatcakes seasoned with lavender?  Do they make motorbikes out of matured Wensleydale?


Actually, in my experience, they seem to be utterly bereft of any cheese at all.
 
2013-03-20 05:48:58 PM  
come on, what did you expect? the guy's name is FLORIDA.
 
2013-03-20 05:50:16 PM  
cue grumpy cat...

"Good"
 
2013-03-20 05:50:36 PM  
So did anyone actually read all that BS and care to summarize it for the rest of us?

/tldr
 
2013-03-20 05:51:53 PM  
this is the real problem, and hipsters cannot fix it :

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/james_howard_kunstler_dissects_subu rb ia.html
 
2013-03-20 05:55:11 PM  
I used to like artisanal cheese but then it got all corporate and mainstream and it just sold out, so, yeah, I kinda stopped following them.  They just started doing it for the man and like, abandoned their whole ethos.  so now i'm into this really obscure artisanal salt thing, it's totally underground, you probably havent' heard of it, yeah.  I know.  Thanks.  It's pretty cool, but it's like, totally word of mouth, you know.  You have to know someone to know about it, it's pretty elite and exclusive, thank you!  There's also this collective I'm kinda, "forming" around artisanal olive oil but it's like, really exclusive, it isn't even a "thing" yet.  It's just a concept type project cum activity but it's not really like, for like, "public consumption" because we don't want it to get all like, co-opted by people that don't really "get" where it came from or where it's going or what it should be.  It is like, not so much an activity but a way of life.  like, a self-contained tao, like, you know, if my dad doesn't pay for my student loans and flat in Silverlake, ok, then, like, do they exist?
 
2013-03-20 05:58:21 PM  

spicorama: So did anyone actually read all that BS and care to summarize it for the rest of us?

/tldr


No.  It got too long-winded.
 
2013-03-20 05:59:15 PM  

rickythepenguin: I used to like artisanal cheese but then it got all corporate and mainstream and it just sold out, so, yeah, I kinda stopped following them.  They just started doing it for the man and like, abandoned their whole ethos.  so now i'm into this really obscure artisanal salt thing, it's totally underground, you probably havent' heard of it, yeah.  I know.  Thanks.  It's pretty cool, but it's like, totally word of mouth, you know.  You have to know someone to know about it, it's pretty elite and exclusive, thank you!  There's also this collective I'm kinda, "forming" around artisanal olive oil but it's like, really exclusive, it isn't even a "thing" yet.  It's just a concept type project cum activity but it's not really like, for like, "public consumption" because we don't want it to get all like, co-opted by people that don't really "get" where it came from or where it's going or what it should be.  It is like, not so much an activity but a way of life.  like, a self-contained tao, like, you know, if my dad doesn't pay for my student loans and flat in Silverlake, ok, then, like, do they exist?


What you need is artisanal mayonnaise.
 
2013-03-20 06:00:01 PM  

vernonFL: I'm making a tiny desk concert of vintage 70's analog synthesizers with lyrics by a Tibetan throat singer. Ramsang Normchamp. You've probably never heard of him.


Obscure? He used to be cool when he and I were doing street theatre and he was known as "the growler". Farkin Leonard Cohen got him all "mystical" and he sold out to do religio-commercial work for KTEL. Sell out.
Still in the streets Baby!
Keepin it real
cheese
 
2013-03-20 06:01:02 PM  

spicorama: So did anyone actually read all that BS and care to summarize it for the rest of us?

/tldr


When the "creative class", as hipsters are referred to in the article, moves in and gentrifies an area, the cost of living skyrockets offsetting any other gains which would have been had. Furthermore, the creative class probably won't be convinced to move into your sh*tty rust-belt city just because you built a bike path.

/At least that's what it would have said if I'd read it. Collapsing wavefunctions is so mainstream.
 
2013-03-20 06:04:15 PM  
Your blog sucks.
 
2013-03-20 06:04:49 PM  
Subby is obviously not a hipster, because as everyone knows, hipsters make their own cheese these days. But you've probably never heard of that, have you, subby?

/I'm sorry, but I am going to have to shoot you.
//What a senseless waste of human life.
///Peckish?
 
2013-03-20 06:05:30 PM  

poorjon: spicorama: So did anyone actually read all that BS and care to summarize it for the rest of us?

/tldr

When the "creative class", as hipsters are referred to in the article, moves in and gentrifies an area, the cost of living skyrockets offsetting any other gains which would have been had. Furthermore, the creative class probably won't be convinced to move into your sh*tty rust-belt city just because you built a bike path.

/At least that's what it would have said if I'd read it. Collapsing wavefunctions is so mainstream.


You forgot to mention the parental subsidies.  It's one of the few wealth transfers from old to young.
 
2013-03-20 06:06:03 PM  
Yes if you city is shiatty already making it more hip is not going to help. BUT I think if you have a city that is already ok and has things like good colleges  and educated work force, doing this things will improve your city and make it a place people want to work and come to.

The idea of a city circling the drain can get out of it by giving to the arts, making hip districts etc., is stupid.

/Getting a kick of this because I live in "hipster capital"
 
2013-03-20 06:06:13 PM  

spicorama: So did anyone actually read all that BS and care to summarize it for the rest of us?

/tldr


Spending money to accommodate the "creative class" only helps them.

And he would be right if the money was tax breaks for fixie shops, or free parking for ironic mustaches.  But what he actually chose to call out (bike paths, open to gays etc) does benefit everyone.
 
2013-03-20 06:06:53 PM  
Isn't this just a rant about gentrification in general?

Especially this part -"The rewards of the "creative class" strategy, he notes, "flow disproportionately to more highly-skilled knowledge, professional and creative workers," since the wage increases that blue-collar and lower-skilled workers see "disappear when their higher housing costs are taken into account."  "
 
2013-03-20 06:07:48 PM  
A whole community of people who reject mass produced products and prefer small independent shops and used goods? Yea fark those guys. In America we buy cheap crap from China and we like it.
 
2013-03-20 06:08:38 PM  
Oh and I personally moved out of suburbia for just those reason. I love being able to walk to great bars and restaurants etc., I live walking distances to the best craft beer bars in the world and very great restaurants, theaters, shops.

But would I move to someplace like Detroit for that? Hell no.
 
2013-03-20 06:08:57 PM  

liam76: spicorama: So did anyone actually read all that BS and care to summarize it for the rest of us?

/tldr

Spending money to accommodate the "creative class" only helps them.

And he would be right if the money was tax breaks for fixie shops, or free parking for ironic mustaches.  But what he actually chose to call out (bike paths, open to gays etc) does benefit everyone.


Seriously, that's what he's biatching about?

//I only skimmed TFA
 
2013-03-20 06:09:32 PM  

meat0918: Isn't this just a rant about gentrification in general?

Especially this part -"The rewards of the "creative class" strategy, he notes, "flow disproportionately to more highly-skilled knowledge, professional and creative workers," since the wage increases that blue-collar and lower-skilled workers see "disappear when their higher housing costs are taken into account."  "


Hell that's true for all America not just for cities using that strategy.
 
2013-03-20 06:09:38 PM  

spicorama: So did anyone actually read all that BS and care to summarize it for the rest of us?

/tldr


Liberals find to their surprise that their own version of supply-side economics works just as good as the conservative version.
 
2013-03-20 06:11:03 PM  

Carth: A whole community of people who reject mass produced products and prefer small independent shops and used goods? Yea fark those guys. In America we buy cheap crap from China and we like it.


THIS.
 
2013-03-20 06:11:46 PM  
Creative class? Yeah, the barista with a trust fund is the creative one. Not the guy with the engineering degree who is designing nanomaterials.
 
2013-03-20 06:13:21 PM  

meat0918: liam76: spicorama: So did anyone actually read all that BS and care to summarize it for the rest of us?

/tldr

Spending money to accommodate the "creative class" only helps them.

And he would be right if the money was tax breaks for fixie shops, or free parking for ironic mustaches.  But what he actually chose to call out (bike paths, open to gays etc) does benefit everyone.

Seriously, that's what he's biatching about?

//I only skimmed TFA


Those were the only specifics I saw.
 
2013-03-20 06:14:01 PM  
Do you know how the hipster burned his tongue?
He drank coffee before it was cool.
 
2013-03-20 06:15:12 PM  

spicorama: So did anyone actually read all that BS and care to summarize it for the rest of us?

/tldr


Trickle down economic theory of a Hipster-based economy (one where everyone is creative, an individual, and paid a lot for doing almost nothing) doesn't work as originally thought, due to the cost of living increases and having to pay a lot for "unique" goods and "unique" services in these areas.  This was compared to the trickle down economic theory of a MegaCorp-based economy, where you don't make as much money as an employee, but your cost of living is relatively less because the goods and services are megacorped.
 
2013-03-20 06:17:15 PM  
I discovered one day that I liked the coffee from the cheerful little indie shop where everyone is friendly and the coffee is marked with which faraway land it came from better than Office Folgers.

I started to worry, thinking that I was turning into a hipster, and then I remembered how the cheerful little indie shop employees will also make you a nice sandwich if you forgot your lunch, remember your name and preferences, plus if you like the music that's playing, they'll tell you who it's by and from which album so you can get it, not scorn you into the middle of next week for not knowing it. So I went back and asked the barista.

"Chris," I said, because his name is Chris and we've discussed stuff before, "does coming here make me a hipster?"

"I don't think so," Chris replied. "I think everyone is a hipster of something. Even your tax accountant probably has opinions on which software and deductions are the best ones and biatches about how the Earned Income Tax Credit was cooler before everyone started claiming it." I laughed, because I could totally picture Bob the Tax Accountant saying exactly that. "This place is not so much a hipster establishment as a place where people come to be reassured of what, exactly, their hipster specification is and thus restore self-esteem."

"So if everyone is a hipster...I must not be that bad."

"I d'know, Spidey. Wearing a Steely Dan t-shirt after 1973 is pretty awful."

"But it goes with my Nyan Cat scarf."

"That's another thing. You own a Nyan Cat scarf, and I notice that your Chuck Taylors have Tetris blocks painted on them."

"...Which also go with the Nyan Cat scarf," I sighed, looking sadly at my Bag of Holding with the 20d on the zipper pull.

"You come here on days that you work, don't you? These are your office clothes."

"Yep," I agreed, feeling very sad.

"...I think you may actually not be a hipster. You have gone so far into hipster territory that it looped around into normal. Where do you even work?" I then gave him the business card of the tech-support place. "Oh. I see. You are actually a tremendous geek who uses hipster plumage to conceal your actual self. That makes you a Stealth Hipster."

"Is that better, then?"

"You're two Decemberists concert tickets away from actual coolness. Also, here is your coffee and sandwich."

"Thank you, Chris. I appreciate the identity alignment."

"De nada, Spidey. See you tomorrow."

And as I left, I heard Chris the Barista confirming to a nice lady with a baby-snuggly on that 'hipster mom' was a thing, and a cool thing indeed, but that if she drank espresso while breastfeeding the kid would be up all night and it was probably best to let the baby get knitted hats out of its' system now.

Hipsters, I think, are people whose health insurance doesn't cover actual therapy and who have resorted to baristas instead.
 
2013-03-20 06:17:50 PM  

nickerj1: spicorama: So did anyone actually read all that BS and care to summarize it for the rest of us?

/tldr

Trickle down economic theory of a Hipster-based economy (one where everyone is creative, an individual, and paid a lot for doing almost nothing) doesn't work as originally thought, due to the cost of living increases and having to pay a lot for "unique" goods and "unique" services in these areas.  This was compared to the trickle down economic theory of a MegaCorp-based economy, where you don't make as much money as an employee, but your cost of living is relatively less because the goods and services are megacorped.


Hip Raganomics?
 
2013-03-20 06:17:55 PM  
This is the same guy that wrote an article about how not having children means you hate America.


fark this old dirt-bag and his anti-youth rants.   He's just pissed the younger generation has become more wise than his old selfish boomer ass.
 
2013-03-20 06:19:03 PM  

poorjon: spicorama: So did anyone actually read all that BS and care to summarize it for the rest of us?

/tldr

When the "creative class", as hipsters are referred to in the article, moves in and gentrifies an area, the cost of living skyrockets offsetting any other gains which would have been had. Furthermore, the creative class probably won't be convinced to move into your sh*tty rust-belt city just because you built a bike path.

/At least that's what it would have said if I'd read it. Collapsing wavefunctions is so mainstream.


I have a cat in a box, but you've probably never heard of him.
 
2013-03-20 06:19:35 PM  

llevrok: Do you know how the hipster burned his tongue?
He drank coffee before it was cool.


i.qkme.me
 
2013-03-20 06:20:34 PM  

Corvus: meat0918: Isn't this just a rant about gentrification in general?

Especially this part -"The rewards of the "creative class" strategy, he notes, "flow disproportionately to more highly-skilled knowledge, professional and creative workers," since the wage increases that blue-collar and lower-skilled workers see "disappear when their higher housing costs are taken into account."  "

Hell that's true for all America not just for cities using that strategy.


I'd say it's true for any society.
 
2013-03-20 06:22:29 PM  
I know some very creative people who actually sell their art and tour playing music, but I get the feeling they are not the ones the developers are trying to pull in because they are often broke and do not go around emulating the mixture look of junkies from the '90s and William Burroughs.

/not sure what they mean by "hipster"
//college kids who decided cheese was more important than hygeine?
 
2013-03-20 06:23:19 PM  
WTF is with everything suddently becoming "artisan-al-y" now? Especially in the fast food industry? How much creativity is needed for something made to order that was just someone following the steps on a pictoral how to put together a cheeseburger that it gets the distinction of "artisan"? There's nothing creative about it.
 
2013-03-20 06:23:58 PM  
Cool report.  Who the fark is "Richard Florida"?

/Some ironic lounge singer?
 
2013-03-20 06:24:56 PM  

rickythepenguin: I used to like artisanal cheese but then it got all corporate and mainstream and it just sold out, so, yeah, I kinda stopped following them.  They just started doing it for the man and like, abandoned their whole ethos.  so now i'm into this really obscure artisanal salt thing, it's totally underground, you probably havent' heard of it, yeah.  I know.  Thanks.  It's pretty cool, but it's like, totally word of mouth, you know.  You have to know someone to know about it, it's pretty elite and exclusive, thank you!  There's also this collective I'm kinda, "forming" around artisanal olive oil but it's like, really exclusive, it isn't even a "thing" yet.  It's just a concept type project cum activity but it's not really like, for like, "public consumption" because we don't want it to get all like, co-opted by people that don't really "get" where it came from or where it's going or what it should be.  It is like, not so much an activity but a way of life.  like, a self-contained tao, like, you know, if my dad doesn't pay for my student loans and flat in Silverlake, ok, then, like, do they exist?


Artisan salt already exists. It's been at the Public Market for about a year now. Six dollars for a small bag.

Besides, the real hipsters are into artisan water. You probably haven't heard about it because you're not hip enough.

/I wish I was joking.
//But not a hipster
 
2013-03-20 06:25:05 PM  

spicorama: So did anyone actually read all that BS and care to summarize it for the rest of us?

/tldr


"I'm a grumpy old Republican advocating suburban sprawl, low-wage jobs and ironically overusing ironic quotes to refer to hipsters."
 
2013-03-20 06:26:07 PM  
Ferndale, Michigan is a good example of what can happen if you open a town to a certain demographic. A couple decades ago Ferndale was a stinky little corner of the Detroit Metro area. It was basically urban sprawl; Ugly, grey, and damned near lifeless. Cruddy-looking houses that weren't particularly well cared-for dotted the landscape, intermingled with some barely-surviving shops and restaurants and empty buildings.

A while back, a new Mayor of Ferndale made it publicly known that Ferndale welcomed the LGBT community with open arms. In a few short years, the houses all began to look better as they were improved by new residents, shops opened that catered to a higher income bracket and more artistic tastes, and businesses sprang up with Ferndale as their home address. The town suddenly looked better than it had in a long time. The people became friendlier. It ceased being urban sprawl and became more of a Detroit village with demographics somewhere between Hamtramk's middle-class urbanites and Royal Oak's upper class yuppie types. It became a nice(r) place to live.

The lower class folks began to move out, too. One suspects it was a homophobic response, because they didn't like living next to fabulous houses full of fabulous people, but whatever the case, the negative elements started to leave and were replaced by people who were, by and large, better educated and employed in higher-paying jobs or at least involved in intellectual or artistic pursuits.

I'm not sure how the place looks now, as the last time I was there was about 8 years ago, but I'm certain it has to be better than it was in the late 1980s and early 1990s, even if  this boom declined or slowed in recent years.

So the moral of the story: If you want to model your town around a certain demographic that is perceived to be "hip", don't aim for the hipsters because they're not a terribly productive segment of society. Aim for the LGBT community, because they tend to be hard-working, artistic, and intelligent, and they like their town to be nice.
 
2013-03-20 06:27:27 PM  
Uh, subby.  I made my own damned cheese today.  It wasn't a hipster thing, it was an agrarian thing.  There's a farking difference.

/the hipsters don't clean up after the animals
 
2013-03-20 06:27:52 PM  
A. Hipsters don't have the capital to revitalized shiat. 18-30 year olds are the poorest generation since the greatest generation/lost generation (1920-30s).

B. The city planing of the last 70 years (sub-urbanization and motorification) has pretty much doomed most metropolitan districts to chaos as gas continues to get ever more expensive and the electric car continues to be a luxury of the elite (which it will).

The wealth concentration in this country will create more social instability as it has always done through out human history. Marx wasn't right about everything however the theory that history is almost always driven by class struggle is pretty solid.
 
2013-03-20 06:27:59 PM  
Subby, please stop associating hipsters with quality cheeses, I like cheese way too much to allow them to be associated with it.
 
2013-03-20 06:29:14 PM  

plutoniumfeather: come on, what did you expect? the guy's name is FLORIDA.


girlfrommalibu.files.wordpress.com

Frowns on your shenanigans
 
2013-03-20 06:32:36 PM  

Girion47: This is the same guy that wrote an article about how not having children means you hate America.


Yeah, his argument was basically "we need eternal population growth to subsidize the next generation's retirement".
 
2013-03-20 06:33:19 PM  

spicorama: So did anyone actually read all that BS and care to summarize it for the rest of us?

/tldr


guy made a ton of cash selling an idea of Hipsterization to local yokels.
He was wrong and now nobody likes him well that and the people that gave him cash are stone broke.
and hipsters suck the life out of everything they touch oh and nobody really understands them.
and Mike Bloomberg is a jerk for giving it a shot.
pretty much everyone sucks except the author.  Who is brilliant, ask him.
sort of a waste of time and pixels and bandwidth

and you owe me.
 
2013-03-20 06:35:08 PM  

rohar: Uh, subby.  I made my own damned cheese today.  It wasn't a hipster thing, it was an agrarian thing.  There's a farking difference.

/the hipsters don't clean up after the animals


Plus, it's kinda fun.

I've never made cheese, but I do a lot of canning.

//I've got some sauerkraut bubbling away at the moment. The cabbages needed to come out of the garden to make room for something else.
 
2013-03-20 06:35:20 PM  

Mimic_Octopus: this is the real problem, and hipsters cannot fix it :

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/james_howard_kunstler_dissects_subur b ia.html


Please tell me that isn't how even 10% of American cities look. And please tell me that most houses don't have blind sides but that windows have been put in them to increase the available light and to give people a view of the land around them.
 
2013-03-20 06:35:24 PM  
Hipsters were supposed to save us? Who knew?
 
2013-03-20 06:35:42 PM  

Ambitwistor: Girion47: This is the same guy that wrote an article about how not having children means you hate America.

Yeah, his argument was basically "we need eternal population growth to subsidize the next generation's retirement".


http://www.joelkotkin.com/content/00711-joel-fox-business-talking-ba by -bust

Here's the fat-fark on Fox talking about it.

Old people, I'm not here to subsidize you, in fact, I'd wish you would hurry up and off yourselves so that this country can turn itself around and get away from your greed, overpriced real estate, suburban sprawl, chain restaurants, horrifically unhealthy food, and socially conservative views.   You're ruining what we were told was a great nation, we'd like to see it that way.

/if you don't die, please don't vote.
 
2013-03-20 06:36:21 PM  

Carth: A whole community of people who reject mass produced products and prefer small independent shops and used goods? Yea fark those guys. In America we buy cheap crap from China and we like it.


Maybe it's just my area, but most of the folks I meet that say these things are important only say it. One of my students keeps talking about the evils of mass-production and wears an "anti consumer" shirt quite often.

He has never come to class without three Mac products and wears a rotating array of new Chuck Taylor's.

I know it's darn near impossible to not use corporate items, but guys like this (and I know he's an extreme example) strike me as absolutely disingenuous.

Is there really a large group that honestly works toward these goals? If so, I think that's great. I'm just afraid that the posers I see may be the norm.
 
2013-03-20 06:36:59 PM  
sounds like they have forgotten what builds communities and why people want to live in them for some pc idea of what america should become.
Rather than education and industry combining and making everyone wealthy, we have 'service industries' like mickey d and great clips, only with trendy names and products, but, not everyone can cut hair or sling hash and make a decent living...
meanwhile, our government has allowed industry to move out of the country as well as the tax base said industry provided, and allowed uneducated immigrants to overpopulate the work force and having anchor babies so they can't be deported easily.
don't worry tho, the millionaires and billionaires in government have YOUR best interests at heart...
 
2013-03-20 06:38:56 PM  
Hipsters come in and turn around neighborhoods in cities so families like mine can eventually move to that neighborhood because it now has lower crime and more to offer families. I am a fan of hipsters. The same can be said for gay communities cleaning up suspect neighborhoods.

This world would be better off with more gays and hipsters.
 
2013-03-20 06:39:06 PM  
All right, it's a Hipster Hate™  thread!
 
2013-03-20 06:40:02 PM  

Sorry, but according to Internet by-laws, use of that meme requires that I post this picture of what subby, in all probability, may look like:




i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-20 06:41:38 PM  

Spiralmonkey: What constitutes an artisanal cheese chop?  Do they use hand made guillotines lubricated with the armpit secretions of 80 year old French nuns?


And this is where I stopped reading this thread
s1d6.turboimagehost.com
 
2013-03-20 06:42:39 PM  
Notice how the author cites New York, then in the next paragraph leaves it out when he mentions the vanillaness of many of these cities, or that he sites the focus of money on the artistic class at the same time noting the increase in spending on the poor?  Or that he confuses correlation and causation?  Look, I hate hipsters almost as much as Cartman hates hippies, but rust belt cities were often built on their closeness to key resources.  If your coal runs out, your city may go to crap.  Ironically, the highway system may have doomed Detroit.  When you need the Great Lakes and rail to ship stuff, Detroit was great.  So was Buffalo.  What do they have now that you can't accomplish by road?  Cheap labor?  You can find that anywhere, and probably someplace sunnier.  Towns that are doing well?  They have international seaports, resources (oil), or great weather, or some combination of those things.  (Okay, Chicago sort of breaks those rules, but most cities follow those rules.)  If you don't have one of those things, you make up for it with a lot of social spending.
 
2013-03-20 06:43:57 PM  

The number 7 and the letter Q!: Carth: A whole community of people who reject mass produced products and prefer small independent shops and used goods? Yea fark those guys. In America we buy cheap crap from China and we like it.

Maybe it's just my area, but most of the folks I meet that say these things are important only say it. One of my students keeps talking about the evils of mass-production and wears an "anti consumer" shirt quite often.

He has never come to class without three Mac products and wears a rotating array of new Chuck Taylor's.

I know it's darn near impossible to not use corporate items, but guys like this (and I know he's an extreme example) strike me as absolutely disingenuous.

Is there really a large group that honestly works toward these goals? If so, I think that's great. I'm just afraid that the posers I see may be the norm.


What I like the idea of is what I have heard from the old people that talk about the days of small independent shops, used goods, all of that.  These are the WWII generation though, and what's weird is this sort of going back (or maybe wanting to go back) to that old model because of what the excesses of the Boomers and early Gen Xers are accustomed to and are perceived as major factors in today's economic climate.
 
2013-03-20 06:45:32 PM  
Do you like Huey Lewis and the news? ... He said it's hip to be square.

coolaggregator.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-03-20 06:45:59 PM  

HoratioGates: Notice how the author cites New York, then in the next paragraph leaves it out when he mentions the vanillaness of many of these cities, or that he sites the focus of money on the artistic class at the same time noting the increase in spending on the poor?  Or that he confuses correlation and causation?  Look, I hate hipsters almost as much as Cartman hates hippies, but rust belt cities were often built on their closeness to key resources.  If your coal runs out, your city may go to crap.  Ironically, the highway system may have doomed Detroit.  When you need the Great Lakes and rail to ship stuff, Detroit was great.  So was Buffalo.  What do they have now that you can't accomplish by road?  Cheap labor?  You can find that anywhere, and probably someplace sunnier.  Towns that are doing well?  They have international seaports, resources (oil), or great weather, or some combination of those things.  (Okay, Chicago sort of breaks those rules, but most cities follow those rules.)  If you don't have one of those things, you make up for it with a lot of social spending.


Chicago has a huge financial sector and is still a major stop for shipping good whether by rail or road or even via the Great Lakes.

The automobile built and destroyed Detroit.  First it brought the wealth, then it allowed an easy means to live in a nicer place while still working in the city itself.
 
2013-03-20 06:47:37 PM  
ZeroCorpse

One suspects it was a homophobic response, because they didn't like living next to fabulous houses full of fabulous people, but whatever the case, the negative elements started to leave and were replaced by people who were, by and large, better educated and employed in higher-paying jobs or at least involved in intellectual or artistic pursuits.

Or they were socially cleansed by rising costs of living which meant they had to move into an even more run-down location. But you know, come up with whatever lets you feel happy about poor people being forced to live in ghettos.
 
2013-03-20 06:49:19 PM  

Girion47: This is the same guy that wrote an article about how not having children means you hate America.


Citation needed.  Got a link?


fark this old dirt-bag and his anti-youth rants.   He's just pissed the younger generation has become more wise than his old selfish boomer ass.

And herein lies the problem with the younger generation.  Poor reading comprehension and an undeserved attitude of superiority.
 
2013-03-20 06:49:57 PM  
Oh this is going to make some people I know mad.
 
2013-03-20 06:50:41 PM  

Ambitwistor: Girion47: This is the same guy that wrote an article about how not having children means you hate America.

Yeah, his argument was basically "we need eternal population growth to subsidize the next generation's retirement".


Which is totally the same thing.
 
2013-03-20 06:52:08 PM  

EnglishMan: ZeroCorpse

One suspects it was a homophobic response, because they didn't like living next to fabulous houses full of fabulous people, but whatever the case, the negative elements started to leave and were replaced by people who were, by and large, better educated and employed in higher-paying jobs or at least involved in intellectual or artistic pursuits.

Or they were socially cleansed by rising costs of living which meant they had to move into an even more run-down location. But you know, come up with whatever lets you feel happy about poor people being forced to live in ghettos.


These were middle class and lower middle class white folks, mostly. I don't think the white folks moved to the ghettos. Most likely, they moved to Hamtramk. The poor people were in Detroit, and they've pretty much stayed there for the past 75 years.

But you know, come up with whatever lets you feel morally superior to strangers on the Internet.
 
2013-03-20 06:52:51 PM  

andychrist420: Citation needed. Got a link?


How farking lazy do you have to be to not click on the author's name and see it's the second article on the page Mr. I Know Better Than You?
 
2013-03-20 06:53:50 PM  

Girion47: Ambitwistor: Girion47: This is the same guy that wrote an article about how not having children means you hate America.

Yeah, his argument was basically "we need eternal population growth to subsidize the next generation's retirement".

http://www.joelkotkin.com/content/00711-joel-fox-business-talking-ba by -bust

Here's the fat-fark on Fox talking about it.

Old people, I'm not here to subsidize you, in fact, I'd wish you would hurry up and off yourselves so that this country can turn itself around and get away from your greed, overpriced real estate, suburban sprawl, chain restaurants, horrifically unhealthy food, and socially conservative views.   You're ruining what we were told was a great nation, we'd like to see it that way.

/if you don't die, please don't vote.


You can always learn from your elders.
 
2013-03-20 06:55:16 PM  

Caffandtranqs: The number 7 and the letter Q!: Carth: A whole community of people who reject mass produced products and prefer small independent shops and used goods? Yea fark those guys. In America we buy cheap crap from China and we like it.

Maybe it's just my area, but most of the folks I meet that say these things are important only say it. One of my students keeps talking about the evils of mass-production and wears an "anti consumer" shirt quite often.

He has never come to class without three Mac products and wears a rotating array of new Chuck Taylor's.

I know it's darn near impossible to not use corporate items, but guys like this (and I know he's an extreme example) strike me as absolutely disingenuous.

Is there really a large group that honestly works toward these goals? If so, I think that's great. I'm just afraid that the posers I see may be the norm.

What I like the idea of is what I have heard from the old people that talk about the days of small independent shops, used goods, all of that.  These are the WWII generation though, and what's weird is this sort of going back (or maybe wanting to go back) to that old model because of what the excesses of the Boomers and early Gen Xers are accustomed to and are perceived as major factors in today's economic climate.


That does sound cool. If someone is being sincere I can respect them, even if I don't choose the same. If there's an actual way to breathe back some life to certain areas, I'm all for it.

Guess it's like the flower generation. How many Hippies really believed vs how many were following a trend (and a permissive one, at that).

I've always bought used myself, but that usually comes from low income. Oh well.
 
2013-03-20 06:55:31 PM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Spiralmonkey: What constitutes an artisanal cheese chop?  Do they use hand made guillotines lubricated with the armpit secretions of 80 year old French nuns?  Is it somewhere you can take your own home-made caboc and they'll cut it into daisy-shaped rounds that fit exactly onto your hand-pressed oatcakes seasoned with lavender?  Do they make motorbikes out of matured Wensleydale?

A true hipster cheese shop doesn't sell cheese.


Not to you, anyway.
 
2013-03-20 06:58:17 PM  

HoratioGates: Notice how the author cites New York, then in the next paragraph leaves it out when he mentions the vanillaness of many of these cities, or that he sites the focus of money on the artistic class at the same time noting the increase in spending on the poor?  Or that he confuses correlation and causation?  Look, I hate hipsters almost as much as Cartman hates hippies, but rust belt cities were often built on their closeness to key resources.  If your coal runs out, your city may go to crap.   Ironically, the highway system may have doomed Detroit.  When you need the Great Lakes and rail to ship stuff, Detroit was great.  So was Buffalo.  What do they have now that you can't accomplish by road?  Cheap labor?  You can find that anywhere, and probably someplace sunnier.  Towns that are doing well?  They have international seaports, resources (oil), or great weather, or some combination of those things.  (Okay, Chicago sort of breaks those rules, but most cities follow those rules.)  If you don't have one of those things, you make up for it with a lot of social spending.


In 2 ways:

1) The way you mentioned

2) Because Detroit has the single best urban highway network I've ever seen in an American city for it's population, it's fairly trivial to live 20 or 30 miles away from work.  So even if there are jobs in downtown, the people who work them live elsewhere, meaning that any benefits get heavily diluted.  The Greater Detroit Metro Area is doing great (and has been doing at least OK since it's explosion after WW2), Detroit is screwed.
 
2013-03-20 06:59:13 PM  

meat0918: Isn't this just a rant about gentrification in general?

Especially this part -"The rewards of the "creative class" strategy, he notes, "flow disproportionately to more highly-skilled knowledge, professional and creative workers," since the wage increases that blue-collar and lower-skilled workers see "disappear when their higher housing costs are taken into account."  "


Yep, I despise hipsters personally, but it still is the idea of gentrification in general that is the main evil in this. (plus if Hipsters themselves weren't such arseholes about being so "unique" and independent; while cashing their trust fund checks from their parents, stealing their ideas and music from other subcultures, and stealing their looks from hobos!) But the article is relatively correct, Hipsters aren't the answer to anti-Corporate greed, they are simply the catalyst that reverses the phenomenon of "white flight" and increased gentrification when wealthier people return to the city because some "artists" are there and the wealthy people who arrive want to acquire the same authenticity that the Hipsters claim to have.
 
2013-03-20 07:03:01 PM  

GAT_00: andychrist420: Citation needed. Got a link?

How farking lazy do you have to be to not click on the author's name and see it's the second article on the page Mr. I Know Better Than You?


So I'm supposed to research your hyperbolic claim?  I'll concede the argument if you can produce a quote that he said, "if you don't have children, you hate America"  I'll wait.
 
2013-03-20 07:03:02 PM  

The number 7 and the letter Q!: Caffandtranqs: The number 7 and the letter Q!: Carth: A whole community of people who reject mass produced products and prefer small independent shops and used goods? Yea fark those guys. In America we buy cheap crap from China and we like it.

Maybe it's just my area, but most of the folks I meet that say these things are important only say it. One of my students keeps talking about the evils of mass-production and wears an "anti consumer" shirt quite often.

He has never come to class without three Mac products and wears a rotating array of new Chuck Taylor's.

I know it's darn near impossible to not use corporate items, but guys like this (and I know he's an extreme example) strike me as absolutely disingenuous.

Is there really a large group that honestly works toward these goals? If so, I think that's great. I'm just afraid that the posers I see may be the norm.

What I like the idea of is what I have heard from the old people that talk about the days of small independent shops, used goods, all of that.  These are the WWII generation though, and what's weird is this sort of going back (or maybe wanting to go back) to that old model because of what the excesses of the Boomers and early Gen Xers are accustomed to and are perceived as major factors in today's economic climate.

That does sound cool. If someone is being sincere I can respect them, even if I don't choose the same. If there's an actual way to breathe back some life to certain areas, I'm all for it.

Guess it's like the flower generation. How many Hippies really believed vs how many were following a trend (and a permissive one, at that).

I've always bought used myself, but that usually comes from low income. Oh well.


I believe it is cool as well, but the younger generation is not able to do the things the older generation did like fix their cars on their own, build entire additions to their homes and fix their plumbing and electrical problems on their own, make food from scratch, etc.  Not many had much use for computers and all of our gadgets.  Therein lies the significant difference; self-sustainability (although most people in rural areas have inclinations for both self-sustenance and gadget knowledge).
 
2013-03-20 07:05:14 PM  

cannotsuggestaname: yeah, because SF became a bastion of the creative workforce over night.


SF certainly like to think they are.
 
2013-03-20 07:05:35 PM  

meat0918: rohar: Uh, subby.  I made my own damned cheese today.  It wasn't a hipster thing, it was an agrarian thing.  There's a farking difference.

/the hipsters don't clean up after the animals

Plus, it's kinda fun.

I've never made cheese, but I do a lot of canning.

//I've got some sauerkraut bubbling away at the moment. The cabbages needed to come out of the garden to make room for something else.


I hate you so much.  I just smoked 5lbs of home grown pork sausage yesterday.  I'd pay well for decent 'kraut.  It'd go well together.  I'll be in the Seattle area Monday next week, trades?
 
2013-03-20 07:06:23 PM  
I see Hartford is on his list so I'm going to rant about everything that Hartford did wrong.

First, Hartford sucks. You don't need to be from around here to know that. The only thing that probably strikes a chord in most people's mind is that it once had the Whalers.  Since they left everybody forgot about Hartford, including people that live only 5 minutes away.

So it seems Hartford built some huge trendy luxury apartments for the "creative class". Of course there is only boring insurance jobs around here so I don't know how "hip" they can be.   However, Hartford also as a "War on cars" mentality. Sure that probably works in San Fran and New York, but Hartford's "Safe zone" is only about 4 city blocks.  After that, you're essentially in the Mad Max beyond the thunderdome territory in all 4 directions.  Having a car just working in the city, never mind living in it, is a huge pain in the ass, and the meter maids are absolutely relentless. Every year it seems the number of street parking spots gets smaller and smaller, and the few lots, some of them owned by the city, seemed to only increase their price more and more.  Connecticut is a suburban zone, and literally everything requires having a car.  Hartford didn't even have a grocery store for the longest time, but only just recently is there now a small market where you can actually get food without having to go a restaurant or venture in to crimeland.  Also even in this safe zone, don't be surprised to see crackheads and homeless people camping out your door at night. (by that, I mean close up your shades at night and sleep in your bathtub with a shotgun).

Hartford also hates drinking, which is ironic, since it's probably the only that actually brings people TO hartford besides work.  Most of the bars are shiatty Top40 meatgrinders that have pretty much same personality at each one.  There is actually a surging local craft beer market in Connecticut (all of them course, OUTSIDE of Hartford), but as far as I can tell, this was entirely a private sector initiative.  My main gripe on this is we've saw millions of dollars go to this plush strip called Adrien's Landing which would border the polluted river that runs through Hartford. They could have actually made this somewhat nice, with some cool waterside bars and restaurants, loud music, etc., but instead they just put a bunch of miscellaneous bullshiat nobody uses.  There is a park with a few swings and slides, a "Riverfront" which is absolutely nothing but some concrete steps, and then they put some horribly ugly Connecticut Science Museum, which much to our dismay, turned out to be nothing at all like the Boston Science Museum.  Besides a couple tame festivals a couple times a year, the totality of the Greater Hartford area never use this Riverfront area that was hyped up for about 2 decades.

Also, I forgot to mention that the bars close at 12:30 weeknights and 1:30 weekends, but this is a State rule that should probably be overturned.

I'm actually a fan of Hipster areas. Even though I'm getting older i like walking by weird shops of things i've never heard of before, instead of the same women's clothing and frozen yogurt places that fill CT suburbs.  But whatever this guy told Hartford to do was absolutely complete bullshiat.  Trendy areas like Williamsburg and the former ghettoes of Boston likely sprang up simply due to proximity of their giant technology and professional industries.  It wasn't central planning, they built it themselves because they like doing fun things that you can usually do for free, they like drinking, and gasp, doing drugs too.  So everything built up around them while they were doing it.  Trying to force this shiat in while expecting to charge up and coming yuppies an arm and leg for everything they do for the privilege of letting them be there is only going to wind up a massive failure.

tldr: Hartford sucks.
 
2013-03-20 07:08:21 PM  

andychrist420: GAT_00: andychrist420: Citation needed. Got a link?

How farking lazy do you have to be to not click on the author's name and see it's the second article on the page Mr. I Know Better Than You?

So I'm supposed to research your hyperbolic claim?  I'll concede the argument if you can produce a quote that he said, "if you don't have children, you hate America"  I'll wait.


Seriously, go to the article, the one I'm referring to is in the sidebar.
 
2013-03-20 07:10:58 PM  
Caffandtranqs: I believe it is cool as well, but the younger generation is not able to do the things the older generation did like fix their cars on their own, build entire additions to their homes and fix their plumbing and electrical problems on their own, make food from scratch, etc. Not many had much use for computers and all of our gadgets. Therein lies the significant difference; self-sustainability (although most people in rural areas have inclinations for both self-sustenance and gadget knowledge).

Some of that is things like newer cars that are almost impossible to fix on your own anymore.

But fixing your own plumbing, minor house repairs?  Hipsters got that covered (in glitter and using salvaged or reused parts a lot of time).  That is THE hip thing right now, self-sustainability.

Yeah, they might reference a blog instead of a Chilton repair manual, but the point is do it yourself is a necessity for many younger folks, cause they're broke man. They're broke.
 
2013-03-20 07:12:08 PM  

The number 7 and the letter Q!: Carth: A whole community of people who reject mass produced products and prefer small independent shops and used goods? Yea fark those guys. In America we buy cheap crap from China and we like it.

Maybe it's just my area, but most of the folks I meet that say these things are important only say it. One of my students keeps talking about the evils of mass-production and wears an "anti consumer" shirt quite often.

He has never come to class without three Mac products and wears a rotating array of new Chuck Taylor's.

I know it's darn near impossible to not use corporate items, but guys like this (and I know he's an extreme example) strike me as absolutely disingenuous.

Is there really a large group that honestly works toward these goals? If so, I think that's great. I'm just afraid that the posers I see may be the norm.


For electronics I agree there isn't really any other options than mass produced products (although you can buy them from locally owned shops which is a bit better). For clothes, food and just about everything else you can get some great local or at least American made products.

I think the difference is between a hipster and a poser. They both like to say they support local shops but only one actually does.
 
2013-03-20 07:12:55 PM  

SpiderQueenDemon: Hipsters, I think, are people whose health insurance doesn't cover actual therapy and who have resorted to baristas instead.


well. Now that we've changed the rules, that would be 'sucking off the parental paid health insurance teat up to the age of 26'
 
2013-03-20 07:13:49 PM  
I'm kind of surprised no one has yet mentioned the rise of hipster coffee-shops that have over-populated many urban areas in the past as-many-years since this whole "creative-development" started.
 
2013-03-20 07:14:50 PM  

meat0918: Caffandtranqs: I believe it is cool as well, but the younger generation is not able to do the things the older generation did like fix their cars on their own, build entire additions to their homes and fix their plumbing and electrical problems on their own, make food from scratch, etc. Not many had much use for computers and all of our gadgets. Therein lies the significant difference; self-sustainability (although most people in rural areas have inclinations for both self-sustenance and gadget knowledge).

Some of that is things like newer cars that are almost impossible to fix on your own anymore.

But fixing your own plumbing, minor house repairs?  Hipsters got that covered (in glitter and using salvaged or reused parts a lot of time).  That is THE hip thing right now, self-sustainability.

Yeah, they might reference a blog instead of a Chilton repair manual, but the point is do it yourself is a necessity for many younger folks, cause they're broke man. They're broke.


Interesting....
 
2013-03-20 07:15:14 PM  

Caffandtranqs: The number 7 and the letter Q!: Caffandtranqs: The number 7 and the letter Q!: Carth: A whole community of people who reject mass produced products and prefer small independent shops and used goods? Yea fark those guys. In America we buy cheap crap from China and we like it.

Maybe it's just my area, but most of the folks I meet that say these things are important only say it. One of my students keeps talking about the evils of mass-production and wears an "anti consumer" shirt quite often.

He has never come to class without three Mac products and wears a rotating array of new Chuck Taylor's.

I know it's darn near impossible to not use corporate items, but guys like this (and I know he's an extreme example) strike me as absolutely disingenuous.

Is there really a large group that honestly works toward these goals? If so, I think that's great. I'm just afraid that the posers I see may be the norm.

What I like the idea of is what I have heard from the old people that talk about the days of small independent shops, used goods, all of that.  These are the WWII generation though, and what's weird is this sort of going back (or maybe wanting to go back) to that old model because of what the excesses of the Boomers and early Gen Xers are accustomed to and are perceived as major factors in today's economic climate.

That does sound cool. If someone is being sincere I can respect them, even if I don't choose the same. If there's an actual way to breathe back some life to certain areas, I'm all for it.

Guess it's like the flower generation. How many Hippies really believed vs how many were following a trend (and a permissive one, at that).

I've always bought used myself, but that usually comes from low income. Oh well.

I believe it is cool as well, but the younger generation is not able to do the things the older generation did like fix their cars on their own, build entire additions to their homes and fix their plumbing and electrical problems on their own, make food from scratch, etc.  Not many had much use for computers and all of our gadgets.  Therein lies the significant difference; self-sustainability (although most people in rural areas have inclinations for both self-sustenance and gadget knowledge).


I can see the challenge you mention here. Heck, I'm tail-end Gen X and the only reason I can keep an old car running (not restored, and, often, not even street legal) was absolute necessity and a Haynes manual. I can identify what things are in the new car my wife got me, but repairs are probably beyond me.

If it's mainly a knowledge issue, I think that interest and learning might fix it. Maybe we can learn to head on the right direction (don't know why, but I'm optimistic today).
 
2013-03-20 07:15:46 PM  
Did anyone point out that hipsters suck?
 
2013-03-20 07:19:38 PM  
FTA : the trend is to declare good-paying blue collar professions a product of the past.

Those professions are anything but obsolete.

Sounds more like something someone who doesn't want to get their hands dirty might say.
 
2013-03-20 07:20:52 PM  

you_idiot: Did anyone point out that hipsters suck?


Yes, but they were all wearing foghat t-shirts.
 
2013-03-20 07:21:52 PM  

The number 7 and the letter Q!: Caffandtranqs: The number 7 and the letter Q!: Caffandtranqs: The number 7 and the letter Q!: Carth: A whole community of people who reject mass produced products and prefer small independent shops and used goods? Yea fark those guys. In America we buy cheap crap from China and we like it.

Maybe it's just my area, but most of the folks I meet that say these things are important only say it. One of my students keeps talking about the evils of mass-production and wears an "anti consumer" shirt quite often.

He has never come to class without three Mac products and wears a rotating array of new Chuck Taylor's.

I know it's darn near impossible to not use corporate items, but guys like this (and I know he's an extreme example) strike me as absolutely disingenuous.

Is there really a large group that honestly works toward these goals? If so, I think that's great. I'm just afraid that the posers I see may be the norm.

What I like the idea of is what I have heard from the old people that talk about the days of small independent shops, used goods, all of that.  These are the WWII generation though, and what's weird is this sort of going back (or maybe wanting to go back) to that old model because of what the excesses of the Boomers and early Gen Xers are accustomed to and are perceived as major factors in today's economic climate.

That does sound cool. If someone is being sincere I can respect them, even if I don't choose the same. If there's an actual way to breathe back some life to certain areas, I'm all for it.

Guess it's like the flower generation. How many Hippies really believed vs how many were following a trend (and a permissive one, at that).

I've always bought used myself, but that usually comes from low income. Oh well.

I believe it is cool as well, but the younger generation is not able to do the things the older generation did like fix their cars on their own, build entire additions to their homes and fix their plumbing and electrical problems on their o ...


I'm there too...tail end of Gen X.  It is difficult attempting positivity these days, but apparently it can be done with my crabby ass as well.  I have been learning what my scowl-faced tough as nails grandmother always wanted me to learn to do on my own straight from her instruction.  It's possible.
 
2013-03-20 07:23:15 PM  
Dang! While I was typing, several of you chimed on with info I didn't know.

It's nice to see that there are folks that are working towards knowledge and sustainability, and not just posing. I can only hope that continues.

I must go make toddler dinners. Thanks for the conversation, kind people.
 
2013-03-20 07:24:57 PM  
1.bp.blogspot.com

What an artisanal cheese shop might look like.
 
2013-03-20 07:25:44 PM  
I think "hipster" has become the modern equivalent of "witch". If you dislike, or envy, or are made to feel vaguely inferior by someone, you just call them a "hipster".
Since, like "witch", it has no real-world criteria, you can't be rebutted easily, and you can feel better about yourself for a brief instant, until the world slaps you upside the head, once again, with the reality of what a pitiful, pathetic mediocrity you actually are.
Have a nice day! :)
 
2013-03-20 07:27:47 PM  

The number 7 and the letter Q!: One of my students keeps talking about the evils of mass-production and wears an "anti consumer" shirt quite often.

He has never come to class without three Mac products and wears a rotating array of new Chuck Taylor's.


THIS.

I work at a U. and see on a daily basis how "the younger (than myself) kids" of today really ARE clueless to a large extent. And I'm only semi-generalizing. I won't go on and on but, heck, I see them all being "sustainable" and whatever you'd call the modern concept of wanting to be a hippie (except for the Business School folks, 'natch) while at the same time owning and carrying every tech-heavy thing they can carry. Who pays for not only their devices but for the monthly costs? If they grow one or two tomato plants and eat only Ramen does that offset the sheer cost of everything else? And, to be clear, it's not like these kids are practicing Buddhism and asking others to "donate" to them.

/stepping off the soapbox; getting another drink.
 
2013-03-20 07:28:13 PM  

Caffandtranqs: meat0918: Caffandtranqs: I believe it is cool as well, but the younger generation is not able to do the things the older generation did like fix their cars on their own, build entire additions to their homes and fix their plumbing and electrical problems on their own, make food from scratch, etc. Not many had much use for computers and all of our gadgets. Therein lies the significant difference; self-sustainability (although most people in rural areas have inclinations for both self-sustenance and gadget knowledge).

Some of that is things like newer cars that are almost impossible to fix on your own anymore.

But fixing your own plumbing, minor house repairs?  Hipsters got that covered (in glitter and using salvaged or reused parts a lot of time).  That is THE hip thing right now, self-sustainability.

Yeah, they might reference a blog instead of a Chilton repair manual, but the point is do it yourself is a necessity for many younger folks, cause they're broke man. They're broke.

Interesting....


I am open to the possibility it might just be my circle of friends.

rohar: I hate you so much. I just smoked 5lbs of home grown pork sausage yesterday. I'd pay well for decent 'kraut. It'd go well together. I'll be in the Seattle area Monday next week, trades?


I just put it in the crock this weekend, so it will be a while before it's ready.

Plus I'm about 300 miles south of Seattle.
 
2013-03-20 07:28:17 PM  

meat0918: But fixing your own plumbing, minor house repairs? Hipsters got that covered (in glitter and using salvaged or reused parts a lot of time). That is THE hip thing right now, self-sustainability.

Yeah, they might reference a blog instead of a Chilton repair manual, but the point is do it yourself is a necessity for many younger folks, cause they're broke man. They're broke.


What I see in that space is 'lack of problem solving'. Any 'hands on' section of StackExchange is full of them.
"I am adding a room to my home, the contractor poured a concrete slab for the addition and it slopes toward the existing house and it is now raining and water is coming under my floors. Is the slope of the poured slab correct? "

WTF? No, that's not right, you fool.

"My bedroom has a very nice looking flush mounted ceiling light with a glass dome. However, all the bulbs have gone out and I cannot get the glass out to replace them."

WTF? Get a step ladder!

Seemingly simple problems are not solved, but begged for the solution. Yes, eventually they may fix the physical issue themselves. But good grief...how hard it it to figure out you need a step ladder if you are too short? Do you really need to ask that?
 
2013-03-20 07:34:46 PM  

YouPeopleAreCrazy: meat0918: But fixing your own plumbing, minor house repairs? Hipsters got that covered (in glitter and using salvaged or reused parts a lot of time). That is THE hip thing right now, self-sustainability.

Yeah, they might reference a blog instead of a Chilton repair manual, but the point is do it yourself is a necessity for many younger folks, cause they're broke man. They're broke.

What I see in that space is 'lack of problem solving'. Any 'hands on' section of StackExchange is full of them.
"I am adding a room to my home, the contractor poured a concrete slab for the addition and it slopes toward the existing house and it is now raining and water is coming under my floors. Is the slope of the poured slab correct? "

WTF? No, that's not right, you fool.

"My bedroom has a very nice looking flush mounted ceiling light with a glass dome. However, all the bulbs have gone out and I cannot get the glass out to replace them."

WTF? Get a step ladder!

Seemingly simple problems are not solved, but begged for the solution. Yes, eventually they may fix the physical issue themselves. But good grief...how hard it it to figure out you need a step ladder if you are too short? Do you really need to ask that?


Selection bias is pretty easy to come across online, especially in those type of advice forums.  Problem solvers figure it out themselves and may never go online to post about their success(barring their inane Facebook post), but those people that are stumped jump online and ask a question that in the past they might ask their neighbor or I dunno, call the goddamn contractor.
 
2013-03-20 07:37:34 PM  
This is the second reference to artisanal cheese that I've heard today, which makes it the second in my 31 year lifetime. The first one was in class, and if I were a betting man I'd say subby was probably in the class too. But I'm not a betting man.
 
2013-03-20 07:38:02 PM  

HoratioGates: They have international seaports, resources (oil), or great weather, or some combination of those things.


Detroit will look really attractive in 50s years, when the Southwest finishes depleting their aquifers and Detroit can sit there, wedged between two Great Lakes, and laugh.
 
2013-03-20 07:39:22 PM  

meat0918: Selection bias is pretty easy to come across online, especially in those type of advice forums. Problem solvers figure it out themselves and may never go online to post about their success(barring their inane Facebook post), but those people that are stumped jump online and ask a question that in the past they might ask their neighbor or I dunno, call the goddamn contractor.


True. But sometimes you just have to say W.T.F.
 
2013-03-20 07:41:25 PM  

Girion47: andychrist420: GAT_00: andychrist420: Citation needed. Got a link?

How farking lazy do you have to be to not click on the author's name and see it's the second article on the page Mr. I Know Better Than You?

So I'm supposed to research your hyperbolic claim?  I'll concede the argument if you can produce a quote that he said, "if you don't have children, you hate America"  I'll wait.

Seriously, go to the article, the one I'm referring to is in the sidebar.


Or, you could post a link to back up your moronic claim, but I'm the lazy one.  You made an obviously exaggerated Claim which leads me to question the source.  All I asked for was a link. Ever heard of the concept of supporting one's argument?   And no, I don't want to go searching around a crappy website to find evidence of your claim.  I'll just keep believing you lack basic reading comprehension skills.
 
2013-03-20 07:41:42 PM  

andychrist420: GAT_00: andychrist420: Citation needed. Got a link?

How farking lazy do you have to be to not click on the author's name and see it's the second article on the page Mr. I Know Better Than You?

So I'm supposed to research your hyperbolic claim?  I'll concede the argument if you can produce a quote that he said, "if you don't have children, you hate America"  I'll wait.


My claim?  I pointed out the article that it must have come from.  Don't get pissy at me because you couldn't click on someone's name.
 
2013-03-20 07:45:24 PM  

rickythepenguin: I used to like artisanal cheese but then it got all corporate and mainstream and it just sold out, so, yeah, I kinda stopped following them.  They just started doing it for the man and like, abandoned their whole ethos.  so now i'm into this really obscure artisanal salt thing, it's totally underground, you probably havent' heard of it, yeah.  I know.  Thanks.  It's pretty cool, but it's like, totally word of mouth, you know.  You have to know someone to know about it, it's pretty elite and exclusive, thank you!  There's also this collective I'm kinda, "forming" around artisanal olive oil but it's like, really exclusive, it isn't even a "thing" yet.  It's just a concept type project cum activity but it's not really like, for like, "public consumption" because we don't want it to get all like, co-opted by people that don't really "get" where it came from or where it's going or what it should be.  It is like, not so much an activity but a way of life.  like, a self-contained tao, like, you know, if my dad doesn't pay for my student loans and flat in Silverlake, ok, then, like, do they exist?


You do that a little too good, boy.
drawception.com
 
2013-03-20 07:48:52 PM  

andychrist420: Girion47: andychrist420: GAT_00: andychrist420: Citation needed. Got a link?

How farking lazy do you have to be to not click on the author's name and see it's the second article on the page Mr. I Know Better Than You?

So I'm supposed to research your hyperbolic claim?  I'll concede the argument if you can produce a quote that he said, "if you don't have children, you hate America"  I'll wait.

Seriously, go to the article, the one I'm referring to is in the sidebar.

Or, you could post a link to back up your moronic claim, but I'm the lazy one.  You made an obviously exaggerated Claim which leads me to question the source.  All I asked for was a link. Ever heard of the concept of supporting one's argument?   And no, I don't want to go searching around a crappy website to find evidence of your claim.  I'll just keep believing you lack basic reading comprehension skills.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2013/02/18/why-the-choice-to- be-childless-is-bad-for-america.html
 
2013-03-20 07:56:13 PM  

GAT_00: andychrist420: GAT_00: andychrist420: Citation needed. Got a link?

How farking lazy do you have to be to not click on the author's name and see it's the second article on the page Mr. I Know Better Than You?

So I'm supposed to research your hyperbolic claim?  I'll concede the argument if you can produce a quote that he said, "if you don't have children, you hate America"  I'll wait.

My claim?  I pointed out the article that it must have come from.  Don't get pissy at me because you couldn't click on someone's name.


I'm too lazy, remember.  Besides, one asshole sounds the same as another.
 
2013-03-20 07:56:49 PM  
I dunno, I was actually kind of thinking about getting into cheesemaking as a hobby, not really as a hipster thing, but kind of an insurance policy in case of full financial meltdown.  I mean, most people will be scavenging the wastes looking for spare ammunition, but I'll be set being the official cheesemaker for Lord Humongous. Even post apocalyptic strongmen recognize the power of a good mozzarella, you know.
 
2013-03-20 08:04:52 PM  

Spiralmonkey: What constitutes an artisanal cheese chop?  Do they use hand made guillotines lubricated with the armpit secretions of 80 year old French nuns?  Is it somewhere you can take your own home-made caboc and they'll cut it into daisy-shaped rounds that fit exactly onto your hand-pressed oatcakes seasoned with lavender?  Do they make motorbikes out of matured Wensleydale?


You are a hipster plant.
 
2013-03-20 08:09:50 PM  
I work in RE development and study urban planning as a hobby. The problem with Florida's ideas was the whole "branding" concept of hipness versus working on the urban structures that attract the youth as well as businesses. He was right in a lot of ways - however, he seemed to confuse "creative" class with entrepeneurial class and really many of his ideas were far reaches from the get go.

Starting your own business in anything from a tech start up to a restaurant is a lot different than being an "artist" for a living. Starting your own business requires ease of transportation, location, affordability, etc. Attracting intelligent workers is more than having cool cafes and the arts, it is being near a good college to draw talent from. This is where Florida is wrong, wrong.

But so much in this article is complete BS:

 Between 2000 and 2010, notes demographer Wendell Cox, the urban core areas of the 51 largest metropolitan areas-within two miles of the city's center-added a total of 206,000 residents. But the surrounding rings, between two and five miles from the core, actually lost 272,000. In contrast to those small gains and losses, the suburban areas-between 10 and 20 miles from the center -experienced a growth of roughly 15 million people.

NYC alone gained over 200k people in the past 2 years ALONE. In the past 10 years, upscale suburban towns with no direct train lines in upscale counties such as Nassau and Bergen have seen elementary school enrollment (young couples with children) drop as much as 10%.  Cox's assertion is compete BS. The fact is, people are moving back into cities in droves because that is where the jobs are. And the suburbs that are maintaining their values the best are not the super high end suburbs necessarilly, but the ones with good schools and easy access to the city - and these suburbs also tend to be more "urban". Kolko's assertion is also supreme BS and using CHICAGO of all places as an example of people leaving the cities???? WTF? Chicago has seen over 35% increase in populations within 2 miles of city center over the past 10 years (btw he used the same study to dismiss rises in urban population the PARAGRAPH BEFORE) and added approx 10k people to the entire population in the past year alone. YES, the population was decreasing over the years but NOT in areas that had good transportation and were close to jobs (and sure as hell not in the city center) - they were losing populations in the more suburban neighborhoods.

Another problem with Florida's economic assertion is that he assume the "creative" class maintains its "hipness"  - when a hipster grows up, does he leave his new hip area? The article touches on this: When you have children, you often have to let go of your bohemian fantasies; it's hard to imagine being a parent in a place like San Francisco where there are a raging debates about the right of people to walk around naked. WTF is that BS? Yes, because no person has ever raised their child in SF or NYC or Portland or where ever else. Obviously its "hard to imagine" since this author obviously has no clue about urban living. The fact is, those areas that have maintained their value the best during the crash were areas where not only were there hip people but the neighborhood also could carry the elderly and families. Park Slope didn't fall badly, Williamsburg did.

Yes, Houston, Dallas, etc enjoyed high growth. Again, this is about jobs and not the creative classes and for that point the article is right. But I don't know anyone who moves to Dallas, Houston etc for lifestyle. They move there for jobs. Which is fine, I'm not bashing that. The article however makes the argument that due to this, "oh people are moving to the suburbs again!" because the population growth in Houston/Dallas/etc is centered upon the suburban. That's because all of the cities he listed are a sorry excuse for urban planning and perfect examples of crap sprawl - these are cities built around cars and they don't even have the option of urbanity unless you start from scrap. Land is cheap out there and zoning is terrible. You add that with people who don't have a problem with gas guzzling SUV's and 5000sf tacky McMansions and you end up with exurbs with an 2 hour commute to work. Really though, I don't blame the people of these cities to opt for suburban housing. Their cities are gawddamn awful.

We can argue for the pros and cons of gentrification and urban sprawl all day but this article is so FING self-selective, biased, useless, and the worst urban planning article I've ever seen.

The author uses one study (I'm familiar with most of his studies) to prove a point but he nitpicks his info and then refutes the whole point of the study in the next sentence.

I realize I'm rambling but I could write a gawddamn book refuting this article.
 
2013-03-20 08:10:49 PM  

jso2897: I think "hipster" has become the modern equivalent of "witch". If you dislike, or envy, or are made to feel vaguely inferior by someone, you just call them a "hipster".



Hipster just means you have exceeded the casual limit of outward hipness.  Retro glasses are retro.  Retro glasses, skinny jeans, a v-neck T and a PBR? Hipster store at the mall. And if you're offended by being pigeonholed?  Total hipster.
 
2013-03-20 08:13:37 PM  

YouPeopleAreCrazy: SpiderQueenDemon: Hipsters, I think, are people whose health insurance doesn't cover actual therapy and who have resorted to baristas instead.

well. Now that we've changed the rules, that would be 'sucking off the parental paid health insurance teat up to the age of 26'


The cohort that got through school right before the up-to-26 rule change is probably worse off than the newbies coming up behind them. I have a classmate who's 40K in medical debt on top of her student loans because she got cancer at age 24, whereas her younger sister got tested just a year later, was covered under the rule change and paid off her treatment with her own HSA contributions. Being on one's folks' policy doesn't mean one doesn't pay for it, it just means one can work one's way up to a job with benefits without risking financial ruin or death in the starting-out phase. Even when I was on my folks' plan, I had Dad add up what I was costing in premiums and I either paid him and Mom in cash or came home on my days off to do extra chores around the house until it was 'paid off.' (Usually it was the latter, as I was really broke then, but Mom got all new kitchen cabinets, a tile floor and a really nice table I got from Craigslist and restored for her by hand.)

I'm 27 and have been off my parents' policy since age 23. Weeks after my birthday, I had a serious illness and wound up almost 20K in the hole. I couldn't afford that, so over the course of a year, I paid off my medical debt by taking debt collectors to small-claims court for infractions of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. I literally paid them all off with the proceeds from snarking on the ones who broke the law and said something actionable. (About 2/3rds of them did. If you ever get a call from a debt collector, RECORD IT. Trust me. It is ALWAYS in your best interests.)

This is what a broken system does to society. Some struggle through, others manage to avoid it by not having a problem until after a progressive fix or temporary-patch-job is put in place, and others find new, sometimes horrible ways to get by that may, in the end, turn them into genuinely awful people. I'm ridiculously litigious now and have developed an alarming habit of abusing loopholes and consciously winning people over to my side, even against their employers or families' opinion.

About 80% of one's success in small-claims court is based on appearing to be the most reasonable person in the room and being polite and friendly to overworked bureaucrats. Sticking up for a bureaucrat who was trying to process a lot of people's paperwork against a verbally abusive fellow citizen got me a friend for life and a lot of help at a particular courthouse, and I realized that just being nice, knowing the rules and sticking up for the people who A. need sticking up for and B. can be useful will get one whatever one wants in life.

I started applying this attitude to ALL my interactions, first with workers in the service industries and then to everyone, and damned if it doesn't pay off. I've gotten everything from comped drinks to special treatment to suggestions that I run for office from this behavior, and after awhile, I ran for, won, and served in a small, local office for a two-year term, then got my current job via the contacts I'd made there. I may be running for a more serious office soon, simply because people think I am nice and smart and they've asked me to.

The broken healthcare and debt-collection system turned me into a politician.

NOW do you want to fix it?! I was nice before the system got ahold of me, and now...well..

I have the horrible feeling I'm just clinging to my frivolous Nyan Cat scarf and Tetris-pattern Chucks to prevent anyone else taking me seriously enough to put me into a position that could have even more power over other people's lives. It used to be that I was nice for being nice's sake, but now I can feel the smile and the learning-people's-names starting to become a game where my personality and capabilities are building social capital for me to use. I'm aware of my own capacity to make people think I am worth following, and I find that I somehow can't turn it off, no matter how young I act or how stupid my clothes get, and it scares the hell out of me. I just want to be a twenty-something kid again, not 'the darling of the youth and senior voting bloc.' (I don't know why, but grandma-aged people liked me a lot more than my last opponent, who was my father's age.) I have no idea if I'm even technically a good person anymore, because while I'm trying to do good things, I'm also very aware that I am persuading people to do things they might not otherwise do and that's really an alarming power to have.

Is it any wonder letting a barista inform me that I am geeky and almost-cool makes me feel better? I'd go to a high school and let the popular kids tease me to feel normal, except that the school board has already pointed me out as a damn role model.

Oh, well. Time to get off the Internet and put my smile back on.
 
2013-03-20 08:13:55 PM  

jso2897: I think "hipster" has become the modern equivalent of "witch". If you dislike, or envy, or are made to feel vaguely inferior by someone, you just call them a "hipster".

---

Nope. More like this:  "Hipsters" are the new "yuppies". Except they like to think they are "artists".

 
2013-03-20 08:14:08 PM  

meat0918: Isn't this just a rant about gentrification in general?

Especially this part -"The rewards of the "creative class" strategy, he notes, "flow disproportionately to more highly-skilled knowledge, professional and creative workers," since the wage increases that blue-collar and lower-skilled workers see "disappear when their higher housing costs are taken into account."  "


DNRTFA.  But, "highly-skilled knowledge" sums up the self-centered horse-shiat that only stands up in a mirror and your limited self-brethren.  The mood lighting and the Mac will make me money while you rage against the machine.  You wouldn't know what to do with yourselves, otherwise.
 
2013-03-20 08:17:22 PM  

ChuDogg: Hartford


I'm pretty sure Stamford used him too, if I remember correctly.

I've heard the renovations at Stamford have been pretty productive... am I wrong? But from what I understand it is far more the yuppie class than the creative class.
 
2013-03-20 08:17:51 PM  
FTFA: In fact both Raleigh and Austin are both very low-density regions with only compact urban pockets surrounded by vast suburban communities. Take a walk in downtown Raleigh sometime; about five minutes from the densest central areas and you find yourself on tree-lined streets with nice single-family houses, essentially, older suburbs. Austin, too, is a relatively low-density place surrounded by the kind of suburban sprawl detested by Floridians; this is also the case with Charlotte, Atlanta, and other fast-growing cities.

I actually live in Austin and in fact, everything he says about Austin is wrong. Austin is one of the fastest growing cities in the country and people don't move here to live in the suburbs.

I can't drive anywhere without passing a new condo building. Good new restaurants are opening faster than I can keep up with. The east side is turning from being the wrong side of the tracks to being one of the most desirable parts of the city, with new restaurants and shops and people buying run-down houses and making them look great. This is happening all over the city, not just the east side. We bought a house in south Austin 2 1/2 years ago, we could sell it today for a profit. Austin is booming. It's the opposite of a small compact urban pocket, the fun urban parts of the city keep expanding. Sure, we have suburbs but every city has them. It doesn't mean that no one lives in the city.
 
2013-03-20 08:18:17 PM  
Yep, if only they'd given that Odor bar with segway friendly drive thru a chance we could have changed the world.
 
2013-03-20 08:23:56 PM  

Phins: everything he says about Austin is wrong. Austin is one of the fastest growing cities in the country and people don't move here to live in the suburbs.


My original shiat bomb on this article (above) was going to include that too but I figured it would be too long. He's seriously saying there's no desire for Raleigh and Austin? Cities that business are flocking to due to good quality of life and a young, educated work force? And calling these "low density" cities like farking Atlanta or Phoenix is ridiculous. These are much newer urban areas and while they will most likely never have the density of say SF or NYC, the developers are building with much more compact plans than they would have had these cities began their resurgence 30 years ago.

My own brother is building his engineering company in Raleigh/Durham and I myself have considered moving there. They are building condos all over the place, even in areas that can withstand more suburban type of housing - the developers know where these areas will likely be in 25+ years.
 
2013-03-20 08:40:11 PM  
It's ni e to see the 26 minutes men's is still alive and kicking.
 
2013-03-20 08:44:55 PM  

meat0918: Caffandtranqs: meat0918: Caffandtranqs: I believe it is cool as well, but the younger generation is not able to do the things the older generation did like fix their cars on their own, build entire additions to their homes and fix their plumbing and electrical problems on their own, make food from scratch, etc. Not many had much use for computers and all of our gadgets. Therein lies the significant difference; self-sustainability (although most people in rural areas have inclinations for both self-sustenance and gadget knowledge).

Some of that is things like newer cars that are almost impossible to fix on your own anymore.

But fixing your own plumbing, minor house repairs?  Hipsters got that covered (in glitter and using salvaged or reused parts a lot of time).  That is THE hip thing right now, self-sustainability.

Yeah, they might reference a blog instead of a Chilton repair manual, but the point is do it yourself is a necessity for many younger folks, cause they're broke man. They're broke.

Interesting....

I am open to the possibility it might just be my circle of friends.

rohar: I hate you so much. I just smoked 5lbs of home grown pork sausage yesterday. I'd pay well for decent 'kraut. It'd go well together. I'll be in the Seattle area Monday next week, trades?

I just put it in the crock this weekend, so it will be a while before it's ready.

Plus I'm about 300 miles south of Seattle.


It's easily made in canning jars. Chopped cabbage, salt and hot water. Let sit. (if I remember correctly you add one tablespoon of salt per pint (may be per quart))
One quart makes one serving.
Kraut is great for topping a baked potato
 
2013-03-20 08:50:14 PM  
I am now in the mood for an artisanal cheese & Charcuterie plate and a craft beer.
 
2013-03-20 08:52:36 PM  

Abox: jso2897: I think "hipster" has become the modern equivalent of "witch". If you dislike, or envy, or are made to feel vaguely inferior by someone, you just call them a "hipster".


Hipster just means you have exceeded the casual limit of outward hipness.  Retro glasses are retro.  Retro glasses, skinny jeans, a v-neck T and a PBR? Hipster store at the mall. And if you're offended by being pigeonholed?  Total hipster.


Much the same as "witch" means you have failed to care for your chickens properly, and are disgruntled because your neighbor's are still laying. Just because you have a personal definition of something doesn't mean the definition means anything. Now, I'm  63, and a total square, and not offended by anything - but I can tell a jealous, resentful asshole when I see one. Hope you aren't offended by being cornholed.
Pigeonholed, I mean.
 
2013-03-20 08:59:02 PM  
My city did something like that, ages before 'Hipster' was even a word.

They took the beaches on the barrier island and started encouraging the very well off to buy land and build there. Land regular folks didn't want because of fresh water limitations, a single bridge servicing the area, the many hurricanes that hit the area and the steady, salt breezes -- which would rust through anything iron in a flash.

It worked.

The upper crust poured in. Fancy streets developed with high end, 'rustic' stores. Houses, over priced, went in by the scores. Exclusive communities popped up. The value of a housing lot, $5000 in the 60's, went up to $1,000,000 by the late 70's. In came a Disney Resort and a Polo Club.

A museum went in, followed by a tennis club and walking path (which they put right over the best, oyster filled tidal pool in the county) and they put in board walks to protect the beach dunes, built pavilions along the edge of the river, built a live theater and started holding arts and crafts fairs under the great old Oaks of the area park.

Our local butcher shop moved his store there and tripled the cost of his meats. Suddenly, the public beaches had parking problems as they built over parking areas -- but then, the nice beaches wouldn't fill with riff-raff.

They tore down buildings that had been there nearly forever, wiped out the favorite vacant lots the local surfers used to gather on and crammed in condos. Then they tried to put the surfer's sub shop out of business because the clients 'made too much noise'.

Didn't do much for the rest of the city. We lost hundreds of acres of wild lands but the job situation didn't improve. Actually, the time honored practice of taking long, nighttime walks on the beach kind of ended, because they doubled the amount of cops patrolling and they started tossing folks off the sands at night.

A couple of open parks, often used by early morning surf fishermen got fenced in. To protect the new 'rustic' pic-nic tables and pavilions. The gates didn't get unlocked until around 9 AM -- hours past the peak off shore fishing time.

A new bridge went in. An old one was replaced. Now, two bridges serve the island -- but they wiped out the fisherman's catwalk the old bridge used to have and made high rise bridges too high to fish from.

Basically, they benefited themselves. Hurricane Katrina nearly wiped them out, but they were nearly the first to rebuild. A freighter washed ashore on the beach -- and blocked the ocean view of a lady who lived right next to the shore. She biatched to the city leaders until they managed to tow the thing out of 'her' view. (I still haven't figured out how they got it back over the off shore reef. Storm surges allowed it to sail in but there were no such surges when they had to drag it away.)

In the main town, we have empty houses by the score. Foreclosed on thanks to the bubble bust. Most available jobs are minimum wage. They're not 'gentrifying' any streets or parks there.

They removed the old WW1 artillery piece, which had stood in the corner of the central park nearly forever, because it being a weapon of war (with the barrel cement plugged) might offend someone. They did the same with the stripped down Vietnam fighter jet that they had in the kids playground. (It's now being rebuilt and restored in another city. Though, by this time, it's probably flying again.)

However, it's hard for me to recognize the barrier island now. I've attended the craft fairs and discovered that nothing is cheap there.

None of that did all that much for the main city itself, though. Actually, it hurt us.

It's all artsy and cool, rustic and homey there -- provided you have a lot of money.
 
2013-03-20 09:13:34 PM  

Rik01: None of that did all that much for the main city itself, though. Actually, it hurt us.


Their RE taxes are what is running the rest of the city. Those minimum wage jobs are only there because there are wealthy people who live there.The "wealthy" area is the area with the views - the same in any town. What industry was there before? Sounds to me like not much.

From what you are telling me, you live in a vacation home area. Those are the hardest hit in a recession.

That's not gentrification, that's just normal development of beach areas - any beach area. And it quite literally happened all over America, particularly in the 60's.
 
2013-03-20 09:14:50 PM  

jso2897: Abox: jso2897: I think "hipster" has become the modern equivalent of "witch". If you dislike, or envy, or are made to feel vaguely inferior by someone, you just call them a "hipster".


Hipster just means you have exceeded the casual limit of outward hipness.  Retro glasses are retro.  Retro glasses, skinny jeans, a v-neck T and a PBR? Hipster store at the mall. And if you're offended by being pigeonholed?  Total hipster.

Much the same as "witch" means you have failed to care for your chickens properly, and are disgruntled because your neighbor's are still laying. Just because you have a personal definition of something doesn't mean the definition means anything. Now, I'm  63, and a total square, and not offended by anything - but I can tell a jealous, resentful asshole when I see one. Hope you aren't offended by being cornholed.
Pigeonholed, I mean.


Ha!  Maybe on here, but not out in the world at large.  The first time I had ever heard it was when I was living in San Francisco some years back, but it was dericive.  It was, "farking hipsters," but it was also uttered out of the mouths of disgruntled late 20 somethings and early 30 somethings as a way to distinguish their hardships from the 20 year old's hardships.  Hehe, yeah the kids were living poor, but it was only because they were in college.  They were not actually living poor, working manual labor jobs, breaking their bodies, not going out for good times, trying to find a way to make rent.  They were suburbanites in a scene and gathering in "hip, but poor" areas of town.
 
2013-03-20 09:14:52 PM  

andychrist420: Girion47: This is the same guy that wrote an article about how not having children means you hate America.

Citation needed.  Got a link?


fark this old dirt-bag and his anti-youth rants.   He's just pissed the younger generation has become more wise than his old selfish boomer ass.

And herein lies the problem with the younger generation.  Poor reading comprehension and an undeserved attitude of superiority.


Not to mention an inheritance, pension, or SSI or some other entitlement they'll never see. Of course they're pissed. They actually have to work for things.
 
2013-03-20 09:19:55 PM  

spicorama: So did anyone actually read all that BS and care to summarize it for the rest of us?

/tldr


It was a lot of cherry picked and skewed data that "shows" cities like Portland, Seattle, San Francisco, and Austin are failures.
 
2013-03-20 09:20:59 PM  
At least unlike most economists, Florida can admit that he's wrong.

For true creative classes, how about not  trying to make neighborhoods generation-specific (how I define "cool"), but using government funds and revising zoning laws to attract a variety of business types, and of different sizes and hiring different types of employees, in order that young people can start out at a sizable employer within a city, and then spin off their own creative business?  This would probably require encouraging craftsmanship in a way America hasn't for generations, and would requiring disentralling ourselves from the put-in-the-exurbs mentality.
 
2013-03-20 09:35:05 PM  

fanbladesaresharp: Not to mention an inheritance, pension, or SSI or some other entitlement they'll never see. Of course they're pissed. They actually have to work for things.


i18.photobucket.com
The water's a little murky today - I'd recommend something with a gold-plated flashing blade.
 
2013-03-20 09:41:25 PM  

Rik01: My city did something like that, ages before 'Hipster' was even a word.

They took the beaches on the barrier island and started encouraging the very well off to buy land and build there. Land regular folks didn't want because of fresh water limitations, a single bridge servicing the area, the many hurricanes that hit the area and the steady, salt breezes -- which would rust through anything iron in a flash.

It worked.

The upper crust poured in. Fancy streets developed with high end, 'rustic' stores. Houses, over priced, went in by the scores. Exclusive communities popped up. The value of a housing lot, $5000 in the 60's, went up to $1,000,000 by the late 70's. In came a Disney Resort and a Polo Club.

A museum went in, followed by a tennis club and walking path (which they put right over the best, oyster filled tidal pool in the county) and they put in board walks to protect the beach dunes, built pavilions along the edge of the river, built a live theater and started holding arts and crafts fairs under the great old Oaks of the area park.

Our local butcher shop moved his store there and tripled the cost of his meats. Suddenly, the public beaches had parking problems as they built over parking areas -- but then, the nice beaches wouldn't fill with riff-raff.

They tore down buildings that had been there nearly forever, wiped out the favorite vacant lots the local surfers used to gather on and crammed in condos. Then they tried to put the surfer's sub shop out of business because the clients 'made too much noise'.

Didn't do much for the rest of the city. We lost hundreds of acres of wild lands but the job situation didn't improve. Actually, the time honored practice of taking long, nighttime walks on the beach kind of ended, because they doubled the amount of cops patrolling and they started tossing folks off the sands at night.

A couple of open parks, often used by early morning surf fishermen got fenced in. To protect the new 'rustic' pic-nic tables and pavil ...


Sounds frighteningly like Asbury Park, NJ. In that small city in my little corner of Jersey, Hipsters have pretty much taken over most of the businesses of downtown AP on Cookman Ave past main street, along with Heck Ave and were quickly purchasing the new condo developments that were quickly going up in the area. In addition they demolished several historical buildings (Asbury Amusements, the Charms building, Baronet Theater, and the Metropolitan Hotel as well as a few others I am not aware of or they're planning to soon), the difference being that due to the housing crash (and the fact that many companies are hoarding cash, instead of hiring and giving raises) they replaced those destroyed historical buildings with *NOTHING*! Currently there is alot of empty land in Asbury Park near the beach area and all the so called claims they made in 2007 to "Give us money so you can get the place you want in those pretty pictures" was complete BS. What is worse is that no matter if that plan was a success or a failure, it still doesn't address the large part of the city it isn't fixing up (anything west of Main St before reaching Neptune Township) full of predominately African Americans who are just stuck in poverty while their beach area is getting sold for peanuts.
 
2013-03-20 10:08:14 PM  

meat0918: Corvus: meat0918: Isn't this just a rant about gentrification in general?

Especially this part -"The rewards of the "creative class" strategy, he notes, "flow disproportionately to more highly-skilled knowledge, professional and creative workers," since the wage increases that blue-collar and lower-skilled workers see "disappear when their higher housing costs are taken into account."  "

Hell that's true for all America not just for cities using that strategy.

I'd say it's true for any society.


I fail to see how this line of thinking mocks hipsters.  You're losing sight of the goal.
 
2013-03-20 10:10:38 PM  
www.fineorsuperfine.com
 
2013-03-20 10:11:51 PM  
"much of what made the neighborhood unique has been lost as the creatives replace the local culture with the increasingly predictable, and portable, "hip cool" trendy restaurants, offering beet-filled ravioli instead of fried okra, and organic markets. The "unique" amenities you find now, even in New Orleans, he reports, are much what you'd expect in any other hipster paradise, be it Portland, Seattle, Burlington, Vermont or Williamsburg."

This. What used to make our neighborhood interesting is now gone and it has been replaced the same type of homogenized establishment. But hey you can get the same 10,000 beers at 3 different beer bars within 3 blocks of each other. Or how about a $20 glass of whiskey at a "dive" bar. Just don't forget that the hip and trendy joint is one of many that an investment group owns. They name them all differently so people won't think that they are a chain.
 
2013-03-20 10:25:13 PM  

YouPeopleAreCrazy: meat0918: Selection bias is pretty easy to come across online, especially in those type of advice forums. Problem solvers figure it out themselves and may never go online to post about their success(barring their inane Facebook post), but those people that are stumped jump online and ask a question that in the past they might ask their neighbor or I dunno, call the goddamn contractor.

True. But sometimes you just have to say W.T.F.


Some of that is what I call the "For any" fallacy.

That there is someone amongst the 300 million people in the United States who a)have no clue what they're doing technically, and b)know how to post on Yahoo Answers does not surprise me.

Heck, I'm one of them (though I'd do some googling first).  Between Mom being Mom, and Dad being poor, I have no clue how to do things around the house because I never learned.  I can switch a lightbulb and that's about it.

/Didn't learn to paint until 19.
 
2013-03-20 10:45:22 PM  
"In his thesis, the model cities of the future are precisely those, such as San Francisco and Seattle, that have become hubs of highly educated migrants, technology, and high-end business services.

That plan, though, has been less than successful in many of the old rust belt cities that once made up much of his client base."


Shocker: Educated, mobile young people don't want to live in the rust belt, film at 11.
 
2013-03-20 11:01:39 PM  

Doom MD: Creative class? Yeah, the barista with a trust fund is the creative one. Not the guy with the engineering degree who is designing nanomaterials.


The people who matter have advanced degrees in hard science.
 
2013-03-21 12:09:02 AM  
the main problem I see with all of this is the underlying assumption that all people who put on outward displays associated with the bohemian hipster stereotype are all creative people.  I highly doubt this is the case.  I'd wager that maybe 5% of those who would be judged based on appearance as "hipsters" are actually creative people.  The other 95% are imitators of the creative ones.  Some choose to be more subtle in their imitations, yet others choose to dress like 1890's prospectors - is that loose leaf chewing tobacco you've go in organic? - you bet.   Its sort of that SAT question - if some hipsters are creatives, and some normally dressed people are creatives as well, therefore all creative people are hipsters, like such as.  Its like they rule out all together the possibility of a person being creative and choosing to wear normal farking clothes...outrageous.

But I will grant them that at least some people who dress like hipsters are, in fact, creative.  They are creative about how they dress, which is all well and good.  But at a fundamental level it is pretty narcissistic and vain, so chasing these people around the country trying to get them to turn cities into utopias seems like it might be doomed right from the start.  But in the long run I think they had a reasonable idea - just based it on a fairly flawed assumption right out of the gates.  I'd much rather stuff like this be handled by sociologists than the vermin we put into congress these days.
 
2013-03-21 12:18:25 AM  

DarkSoulNoHope: due to the housing crash (and the fact that many companies are hoarding cash, instead of hiring and giving raises) they replaced those destroyed historical buildings with *NOTHING*!


"Nothing" is an improvement over a lot of what had been standing in Asbury Park -- for example the 11-story skeleton of an unfinished condo building that sat rotting on Ocean Ave from when work was halted in 1992 to when it was finally demolished in 2006.

(And then developers laid a foundation and one story worth of concrete and rebar on the same site... which was quickly abandoned when the next crash happened and money ran out.)
 
2013-03-21 12:21:21 AM  

This text is now purple: Detroit will look really attractive in 50s years, when the Southwest finishes depleting their aquifers and Detroit can sit there, wedged between two Great Lakes, and laugh.


And thanks to global warming it will be a nice place to live (I live in Upstate New York, so I'm looking forward to global warming too!)  Yeah though, at some point Las Vegas is going to have to turn those fountains off. What's scarier though is the greater aquifers in the Midwest are getting drained too.  If Nevada blows away it's not nearly as big a deal as all the wheat and corn stops growing.  It's nice that the great lakes can be thought of these days as water.  There was a time when they were really nasty back before those pesky environmentalists got ahold of them.  Of course, a couple of the Great Lakes hit historic water level lows recently, so there's that.
 
2013-03-21 12:36:49 AM  

bullsballs: sounds like they have forgotten what builds communities and why people want to live in them for some pc idea of what america should become.
Rather than education and industry combining and making everyone wealthy, we have 'service industries' like mickey d and great clips, only with trendy names and products, but, not everyone can cut hair or sling hash and make a decent living...
meanwhile, our government has allowed industry to move out of the country as well as the tax base said industry provided, and allowed uneducated immigrants to overpopulate the work force and having anchor babies so they can't be deported easily.
don't worry tho, the millionaires and billionaires in government have YOUR best interests at heart...


their soft minds are warped by WW2 and the cold war.  anything that even partially resembles the big bad C word will be shouted down with great vengeance and furious anger whenever you try to discuss and reason with these children
 
2013-03-21 01:06:17 AM  

Tellingthem: "much of what made the neighborhood unique has been lost as the creatives replace the local culture with the increasingly predictable, and portable, "hip cool" trendy restaurants, offering beet-filled ravioli instead of fried okra, and organic markets. The "unique" amenities you find now, even in New Orleans, he reports, are much what you'd expect in any other hipster paradise, be it Portland, Seattle, Burlington, Vermont or Williamsburg."

This. What used to make our neighborhood interesting is now gone and it has been replaced the same type of homogenized establishment. But hey you can get the same 10,000 beers at 3 different beer bars within 3 blocks of each other. Or how about a $20 glass of whiskey at a "dive" bar. Just don't forget that the hip and trendy joint is one of many that an investment group owns. They name them all differently so people won't think that they are a chain.


North park?
 
2013-03-21 01:07:17 AM  

Mimic_Octopus: this is the real problem, and hipsters cannot fix it :

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/james_howard_kunstler_dissects_subu rb ia.html


Worst TED speaker EVAR!
 
2013-03-21 01:43:35 AM  
It sounds like this guy is trying to blame hipsters and the 'creative class' for his failure to understand the basic laws of supply and demand. When you make your city 'better', ie, more attractive to people, more people want to live there. If the supply (number of housing units in a given area of your city) does not increase, and yet demand increases, HOUSING WILL COST MORE. This is because landlords are generally not retarded enough to be unable to figure out how much they can get away with charging for rent.

If part of your urban planning doesn't include expanding housing (which doesn't make sense in most places right now) then OF COURSE improving your city will make it more expensive to live in.

It sounds like this guy is trying to make it sound like there are a bunch of surprising and unforeseen reasons his plan didn't work, and that he wasn't just swindling huge consulting fees out of people by tricking them into thinking he knew smart business stuff, when the smart business stuff he knew was how to part gullible fools from their money. When someone tells you that you can have your cake and eat it too, you really should know better.
 
2013-03-21 02:39:23 AM  

frizzo: [www.fineorsuperfine.com image 250x323]


I remember that zine. That guy was hilarious.

Thanks for the nostalgia.
 
2013-03-21 02:39:53 AM  

spicorama: So did anyone actually read all that BS and care to summarize it for the rest of us?

/tldr


Hipsters only move to Detroit if you pay them.
 
2013-03-21 07:10:00 AM  

HoratioGates: It's nice that the great lakes can be thought of these days as water.  There was a time when they were really nasty back before those pesky environmentalists got ahold of them.


Indeed.   Anyone else remember this?
 
2013-03-21 07:42:54 AM  

jso2897: Spiralmonkey: What constitutes an artisanal cheese chop?  Do they use hand made guillotines lubricated with the armpit secretions of 80 year old French nuns?  Is it somewhere you can take your own home-made caboc and they'll cut it into daisy-shaped rounds that fit exactly onto your hand-pressed oatcakes seasoned with lavender?  Do they make motorbikes out of matured Wensleydale?

Actually, in my experience, they seem to be utterly bereft of any cheese at all.


You have misunderstood. The shop is owned by Mr Wensleydale
 
2013-03-21 07:45:23 AM  

nickerj1: spicorama: So did anyone actually read all that BS and care to summarize it for the rest of us?

/tldr

Trickle down economic theory of a Hipster-based economy (one where everyone is creative, an individual, and paid a lot for doing almost nothing) doesn't work as originally thought, due to the cost of living increases and having to pay a lot for "unique" goods and "unique" services in these areas.  This was compared to the trickle down economic theory of a MegaCorp-based economy, where you don't make as much money as an employee, but your cost of living is relatively less because the goods and services are megacorped.


Except it is not because the megacorp has realised that as the competition has gone they can set the prices so they set them as high as they can get away with so now the relatively low cost of living has gone and you just have low wages.
 
2013-03-21 08:05:55 AM  
Pro tip: don't use that word around a guy named Art.
 
2013-03-21 08:33:17 AM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Artisanal Snake Oil Salesman.


hopestillfloats.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-03-21 09:57:14 AM  
One group certain to be flustered by this new perspective will be many of the cities who have signed up and spent hard cash over the years to follow Florida's prescription of focusing on those things-encouraging the arts and entertainment, building bike paths, welcoming minorities and gays-that would attract young college-educated workers. In his thesis, the model cities of the future are precisely those, such as San Francisco and Seattle, that have become hubs of highly educated migrants, technology, and high-end business services.

They would only be "flustered" if you think the goal of the cities was to bring up the working man and not to increase their tax base and prestige by tearing down the projects and pushing the poor through gentrification out to the burbs.  It's been a complete win for cities like Chicago, LA, and Atlanta who tore down their projects and increased both their cities relative incomes and white populations.  I think even Houston managed to pull this off.
 
2013-03-21 10:53:48 AM  

poot_rootbeer: DarkSoulNoHope: due to the housing crash (and the fact that many companies are hoarding cash, instead of hiring and giving raises) they replaced those destroyed historical buildings with *NOTHING*!

"Nothing" is an improvement over a lot of what had been standing in Asbury Park -- for example the 11-story skeleton of an unfinished condo building that sat rotting on Ocean Ave from when work was halted in 1992 to when it was finally demolished in 2006.

(And then developers laid a foundation and one story worth of concrete and rebar on the same site... which was quickly abandoned when the next crash happened and money ran out.)


Yep, don't have to remind me at least about that, I see that horrendous foundation each time I head to Silverball. John Oates was supposed to have a place at that super condo building (they did a press conference there too) for every time his band with Daryl toured in the general area of Asbury Park, but that never happened.  I personally would rather see the skeletons of old buildings there than the boring looking condo they put between Lake and Cookman Avenues. (that thing is an eyesore in itself and looks nothing like what was promised in the 2007 conceptual art they waved in front of the city council back then to get approved. Especially since in that concept art, the Asbury Amusements building was still supposed to be standing and in use, it was a pure lie) Thank G-d they didn't put up the structure girders up, otherwise it would have been the same thing all over again.
 
2013-03-21 12:03:12 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: spicorama: So did anyone actually read all that BS and care to summarize it for the rest of us?

/tldr

Hipsters only move to Detroit if you pay them.


To Summarize: The author hates gays, bike lanes, and minorities.
Real America is in the suburbs and hard-working oil/manufacturing towns.
Those "cool city" Hipsters and their advocates are nothing but "a neo-liberal recipe of "biscotti and circuses."


Here's exact quotes from the article:
-encouraging the arts and entertainment, building bike paths, welcoming minorities and gays-
Burning money trying to become "cooler" ends up looking something like the metropolitan equivalent to a midlife crisis.

One particularly sharp critic, the University of British Columbia's Jamie Peck see it as little more than a neo-liberal recipe of "biscotti and circuses."

New York has seen the nation's biggest rise in homelessness; the number of children sleeping in the shelters of Mike Bloomberg's "luxury city" has risen 22 percent in the past year.

The author essentially blames the millennials for not fixing the Great Recession.
 
2013-03-21 12:37:53 PM  
Thinking about it, why didn't this headline get the "Obvious" tag? The only real thing that Hipsters improve is the lives of themselves, other people in their neighborhood are eventually either priced out and forced to move, if you're not hipster than it just is a tourist trap to go for people watching.
 
2013-03-21 01:17:22 PM  

toraque: I dunno, I was actually kind of thinking about getting into cheesemaking as a hobby, not really as a hipster thing, but kind of an insurance policy in case of full financial meltdown.  I mean, most people will be scavenging the wastes looking for spare ammunition, but I'll be set being the official cheesemaker for Lord Humongous. Even post apocalyptic strongmen recognize the power of a good mozzarella, you know.


The same trend happened in the 70's, during another time of economic uncertainty.

/It's all the same
 
2013-03-22 06:11:26 PM  

ColdFusion: HoratioGates: It's nice that the great lakes can be thought of these days as water.  There was a time when they were really nasty back before those pesky environmentalists got ahold of them.

Indeed.   Anyone else remember this?


Lol.  I'd never seen that.  My mom was pretty strict with what we were allowed to watch.  I don't think I got to watch SNL until high school.
 
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