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(New York Daily News)   Woman who pushed her husband out of a 17th floor window blames break-away glass   (nydailynews.com) divider line 137
    More: Unlikely, Tulsa, floor windows, Tulsa World, glass  
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7583 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Mar 2013 at 9:53 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-20 10:58:14 AM  

Egoy3k: If she had a reasonable expectation that the glass would not break then she's safe


No, it'd still be manslaughter.

It's like if you punched someone and they fell, hit their head and died from the injury: even though you didn't intend it, you're still legally responsible.
 
2013-03-20 10:58:33 AM  
Yeah, but if you think about it, he only fell 15 floors.
 
2013-03-20 10:58:45 AM  

Alonjar: Master Sphincter: There is no way I would vote "guilty" as a juror.

The building should have installed the proper glass. Go after them.

/would hit it

Not guilty of what?

She committed manslaughter 100%.  You dont get to shove somebody at glass and just assume they wont get injured.


At some point one has to look at whether a death is a reasonable possibility of the actions of the accused though don't they?

Not all non-murder killings are manslaughter, some are just accidents.

I don't have enough information in this article to draw a conclusion, tbh.
 
2013-03-20 10:59:34 AM  

markfara: She didn't think it through. If she'd said she "felt threatened" by her husband, she'd be home free.


That's her EXACT defense.  She was pregnant and hormonal, and he threatened her.  She responded with what she believed would be a safe space clearing shove, and had no way of knowing that incorrectly installed glass would give way.
 
2013-03-20 10:59:44 AM  

Generation_D: Armando Rosales, a glass repairman, went to the apartment after hearing the glass shatter. He corroborated Amber Hilberling's claim to the court that the large pane was in fact thinner than what is typically used in highrise windows.

A truly fortunate coincidence to find a glass repairman happening by on that fateful day


I thought that was really weird too.
 
2013-03-20 11:02:27 AM  
Tulsan here. She was convicted of 2nd degree murder this week. The jury recommended that she serve the maximum time allowed under that conviction - 25 years (for a clean record, which she has). During the deliberations, they asked if the judge could modify that sentence. I think they wanted her to serve more time. She was offered a plea deal last week of 5 years but didn't take it. Her whole family is very religious, and they were holding prayer vigils leading up to the deliberations.
 
2013-03-20 11:03:19 AM  

Via Infinito: Generation_D: Armando Rosales, a glass repairman, went to the apartment after hearing the glass shatter. He corroborated Amber Hilberling's claim to the court that the large pane was in fact thinner than what is typically used in highrise windows.

A truly fortunate coincidence to find a glass repairman happening by on that fateful day

I thought that was really weird too.


Coincidence?  I don't believe in coincidences.
lucysfur.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-03-20 11:05:46 AM  

reillan: EZ Writer: Rapmaster2000: Tulsa has a 17 story building?  That must be one big Wal-Mart.

This

:p

Tulsa has this.

"

At 203 m (667 ft) in height, the 52-story tower was the tallest building in any of the five "Plains States"

That's like being the fastest kid in the Special Olympics...
 
2013-03-20 11:06:38 AM  
There is a lot of White Knighting in this thread. Look guys, she isn't going to give you sexy time just because you side with her.

She may not be guilty of murder, but sure as hell was responsible for his death. Thin glass or not, you cannot expect a pane of glass to support the weight of a human being.
 
2013-03-20 11:07:35 AM  

Gunther: Egoy3k: If she had a reasonable expectation that the glass would not break then she's safe

No, it'd still be manslaughter.

It's like if you punched someone and they fell, hit their head and died from the injury: even though you didn't intend it, you're still legally responsible.


A push in and of itself doesn't really strike me as being on the same level as a punch, in terms of the degree to which it can reasonably be expected to cause injury.
 
2013-03-20 11:08:07 AM  

Menqet: Tulsan here. She was convicted of 2nd degree murder this week. The jury recommended that she serve the maximum time allowed under that conviction - 25 years


Wow, any reason they were so hard on her?

I'd have expected 5-10 years for manslaughter.
 
2013-03-20 11:08:14 AM  

EZ Writer: Rapmaster2000: Tulsa has a 17 story building?  That must be one big Wal-Mart.

This


Wow, they even have a 60 story hospital.
malialitman.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-03-20 11:09:24 AM  

Gunther: Wow, any reason they were so hard on her?


Because they thought the story was bullsh*t, which means she killed her husband intentionally?

Just a guess.
 
2013-03-20 11:09:44 AM  

NightOwl2255: EZ Writer: Rapmaster2000: Tulsa has a 17 story building?  That must be one big Wal-Mart.

This

Wow, they even have a 60 story hospital.
[malialitman.files.wordpress.com image 440x369]


No windows at all? Looks safe.
 
2013-03-20 11:11:37 AM  

reillan: EZ Writer: Rapmaster2000: Tulsa has a 17 story building?  That must be one big Wal-Mart.

This

:p

Tulsa has this.


At 203 m (667 ft) in height, the 52-story tower was the tallest building in any of the five "Plains States".

WOW.
I'll bet you can see it all the way from the feed lot.
 
2013-03-20 11:11:48 AM  

NightOwl2255: EZ Writer: Rapmaster2000: Tulsa has a 17 story building?  That must be one big Wal-Mart.

This

Wow, they even have a 60 story hospital.
[malialitman.files.wordpress.com image 440x369]


I love Oral Roberts U and their Tomorrowland campus.  It's the future!
 
2013-03-20 11:12:37 AM  

Via Infinito: Generation_D: Armando Rosales, a glass repairman, went to the apartment after hearing the glass shatter. He corroborated Amber Hilberling's claim to the court that the large pane was in fact thinner than what is typically used in highrise windows.

A truly fortunate coincidence to find a glass repairman happening by on that fateful day

I thought that was really weird too.


Does seem a tad strange.  Anyway, her story just seems suspicious even with out that.

A thin pane may have led to thin ice.

My God, someone get an editor.
 
2013-03-20 11:12:41 AM  

Gunther: Menqet: Tulsan here. She was convicted of 2nd degree murder this week. The jury recommended that she serve the maximum time allowed under that conviction - 25 years

Wow, any reason they were so hard on her?

I'd have expected 5-10 years for manslaughter.



She was out on probation but was remanded back to jail for failing a drug test. I'm sure her conflicting statements about what happened really had a lot to do with it, too. During the initial interviews after the incident, she admitted to pushing him as a joke while he was messing with the TV. Then, during the trial, her defense was that it was self defense, and he grabbed her shoulders. She claims she feared for her life and pushed him back to defend herself and her baby. Her family is extremely wealthy and very delusional.
 
2013-03-20 11:13:00 AM  

Biological Ali: Gunther: Egoy3k: If she had a reasonable expectation that the glass would not break then she's safe

No, it'd still be manslaughter.

It's like if you punched someone and they fell, hit their head and died from the injury: even though you didn't intend it, you're still legally responsible.

A push in and of itself doesn't really strike me as being on the same level as a punch, in terms of the degree to which it can reasonably be expected to cause injury.


What I was thinking was, on her part, a determined two-to-three step accelerating forward momentum shove towards the window (he'd have his back to her, probably)..  That'd do it.....
 
2013-03-20 11:13:03 AM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: She may not be guilty of murder, but sure as hell was responsible for his death. Thin glass or not, you cannot expect a pane of glass to support the weight of a human being.


Not if, as she contends, it was a defensive shove.  People seem to be missing that this story is about her doubling down on her defense.  Her defense is that it's not murder OR manslaughter, because it was self defense.  Additionally, she's claiming she was deprived of her husband because improperly installed glass allowed a minor squabble to escalate into involuntary manslaughter.
 
2013-03-20 11:13:15 AM  

Mr Guy: markfara: She didn't think it through. If she'd said she "felt threatened" by her husband, she'd be home free.

That's her EXACT defense.  She was pregnant and hormonal, and he threatened her.  She responded with what she believed would be a safe space clearing shove, and had no way of knowing that incorrectly installed glass would give way.


There is no evidence in that article that points to the glass being installed incorrectly.  All that was said is that the glass is thinner than what is installed now.  Have codes been updated since then due to more information on what types of glass to use in high-rise building?  Was the building built before all this information was available and the codes were updated? Etc., etc.  Just because the glass is thinner does not mean it was installed wrong.   However, if that particular piece of glass was replaced after the building codes were updated then there just might be some bite to the notion that the glass was installed incorrectly but so far, ftfa, there is nothing that points in that direction.

Either way it goes for this lady the one thing to remember is that glass breaks.  All the time. Glass is not some magical life-saving, rubberized, bounce-back-when-pushed-into type of device, it's their to let light in, and to allow viewing.  And what causes one piece of glass to break may notnecessarilycause a different piece of glass to break,  Just keep in mind that it will break.

/was a glazier for 13 years
 
2013-03-20 11:14:05 AM  

Biological Ali: Gunther: Egoy3k: If she had a reasonable expectation that the glass would not break then she's safe

No, it'd still be manslaughter.

It's like if you punched someone and they fell, hit their head and died from the injury: even though you didn't intend it, you're still legally responsible.

A push in and of itself doesn't really strike me as being on the same level as a punch, in terms of the degree to which it can reasonably be expected to cause injury.


Shoving someone against a window hard enough to send them through even thin glass requires a pretty serious push. It seems like it'd be on the same level of injury as a punch

The Muthaship: Because they thought the story was bullsh*t, which means she killed her husband intentionally?


Yeah, but what led them to think that?
 
2013-03-20 11:15:23 AM  
I don't know why anyone would want to live in OK, the only time I went through there on a road trip I coined it the land of flying hot trash. There was just trash everywhere blowing around and it's hot as shiat. Plus I got caught in a bad super storm cell (or whatever they're called), holyshiat that was scary.
 
2013-03-20 11:15:33 AM  
Oh, and the husband had a protective order against her, too, which expired a couple weeks before she pushed him out of the window. Yeah, she crazy.
 
2013-03-20 11:15:40 AM  
Helen Hunt loves the break-away glass....
 
2013-03-20 11:16:12 AM  

Gunther: Yeah, but what led them to think that?


Sounds like Menqet has a better handle on that than I.
 
2013-03-20 11:16:28 AM  

Snarfangel: If the sexes were reversed, there wouldn't be much sympathy. "Your honor, sure, I pushed my wife through the window, but it was too thin! I thought it would bounce her back like a trampoline."

So in the interests of equality and public order, put her away.


Actually, it's still either second degree murder in either case. The only defense this woman has is that she acted in self defense and then the glass was too thin and her husband fell to his death. .
 
2013-03-20 11:17:18 AM  

SmackLT: ...and gravity


Not scientifically valid - it's only a theory. Just like evolution.

TEACH THE CONTROVERSY.
 
2013-03-20 11:18:25 AM  

Menqet: Tulsan here. She was convicted of 2nd degree murder this week. The jury recommended that she serve the maximum time allowed under that conviction - 25 years (for a clean record, which she has). During the deliberations, they asked if the judge could modify that sentence. I think they wanted her to serve more time. She was offered a plea deal last week of 5 years but didn't take it. Her whole family is very religious, and they were holding prayer vigils leading up to the deliberations.


So either their god doesn't listen to prayers, or he wants her to do hard time.
 
2013-03-20 11:18:30 AM  

LeroyBourne: I don't know why anyone would want to live in OK, the only time I went through there on a road trip I coined it the land of flying hot trash. There was just trash everywhere blowing around and it's hot as shiat. Plus I got caught in a bad super storm cell (or whatever they're called), holyshiat that was scary.


We had to drive through OK once. It was HORRIBLE. Bumpiest damn road I've ever been on.
 
2013-03-20 11:19:43 AM  
According to another article, she was abusive to him, told his parents that if they stayed together she'd probably end up killing him and the fight happened after she found out he packed his bags and was leaving her.

Doesn't sound like self defense to me.
 
2013-03-20 11:21:10 AM  

NightOwl2255: EZ Writer: Rapmaster2000: Tulsa has a 17 story building?  That must be one big Wal-Mart.

This

Wow, they even have a 60 story hospital.
[malialitman.files.wordpress.com image 440x369]


Well mostly it's office space, with a hospital in the building.  I can't imagine a city of less than half a million supporting a 60 story hospital.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CityPlex_Towers
 
2013-03-20 11:21:12 AM  
If you want to witness the train-wreck first hand, check out the Amber Hilberling is Innocent facebook page: Praying, praying, praying, then OMG! The judge had it out for her the whole time! The truth will come out! Blah, blah, blah...
 
2013-03-20 11:22:28 AM  

Menqet: If you want to witness the train-wreck first hand, check out the Amber Hilberling is Innocent facebook page: Praying, praying, praying, then OMG! The judge had it out for her the whole time! The truth will come out! Blah, blah, blah...


It was a bench trial?  Her lawyer should be disbarred.
 
2013-03-20 11:22:29 AM  
The BOK tower (formerly the Williams Center Building) in downtown Tulsa has 52 stories so this isn't the biggest building in Tulsa by a long shot
 
2013-03-20 11:22:53 AM  

PoochUMD: According to another article, she was abusive to him, told his parents that if they stayed together she'd probably end up killing him and the fight happened after she found out he packed his bags and was leaving her.

Doesn't sound like self defense to me.


Did she send the bags with him?
 
2013-03-20 11:25:13 AM  

The Muthaship: Menqet: If you want to witness the train-wreck first hand, check out the Amber Hilberling is Innocent facebook page: Praying, praying, praying, then OMG! The judge had it out for her the whole time! The truth will come out! Blah, blah, blah...

It was a bench trial?  Her lawyer should be disbarred.



No. Jury trial, but her family is blaming the judge for her murder conviction. Like I said, her family is very delusional.
 
2013-03-20 11:25:14 AM  
*Note to self: Keep the one level. DON'T move into a high-rise.*
 
2013-03-20 11:26:34 AM  
Sybarite:

There needs to be a hot/defenestration scale.

That's a hard 21.
 
2013-03-20 11:26:57 AM  

Menqet: Like I said, her family is very delusional.


I almost wish I was on FB so I could read that....almost
 
2013-03-20 11:27:43 AM  

Gunther: Shoving someone against a window hard enough to send them through even thin glass requires a pretty serious push. It seems like it'd be on the same level of injury as a punch


I dunno - glass can break quite easily, depending on previous state of repair and how well it's secured etc. I once broke through a slightly cracked, loosely-held window by leaning on it in the wrong place - admittedly I was leaning quite heavily but I'm still pretty sure it was less force than if I had been pushed into it, and I don't weigh very much either.
 
2013-03-20 11:29:06 AM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: She may not be guilty of murder, but sure as hell was responsible for his death. Thin glass or not, you cannot expect a pane of glass to support the weight of a human being.


High rise glass is designed to be impact resistant, this is done through the use of inter layer laminating of the glass panels.  This is similar to the design of glass in your car, however generally speaking the highrise glass is stronger because the factor of safety must be higher to resist consistent wind loading AND impacts.  Not to mention, the car glass breaking is less likely to lead to a death than your highrise breaking out from you leaning on the window.

The wind load in a place like Tulsa is pretty high, i think the ground speed is 90 MPH, which is equivalent to almost 200 psf.  On the 17th floor, that load may have been even higher.  I would guess that the glass installed would be in the 300 psf to avoid damage from impact during wind loading.  This may sound high, but really it isn't much above 2 psi... At this point, the limiting factor is not the thickness of the glass but the size of the window.

I'm sure they had lots of expert testimony, but TBH IMHO I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that the glass would handle the impact of a man being pushed against it.

If I was the family of the husband, I would still go after the highrise.
 
2013-03-20 11:29:32 AM  

farker99: Might hit it.

/Crazy eyes though.


I do her.
 
xcv
2013-03-20 11:29:43 AM  

Maud Dib: reillan: EZ Writer: Rapmaster2000: Tulsa has a 17 story building?  That must be one big Wal-Mart.

This

:p

Tulsa has this.

At 203 m (667 ft) in height, the 52-story tower was the tallest building in any of the five "Plains States".

WOW.
I'll bet you can see it all the way from the feed lot.


assets.nydailynews.com

The university building even looks like how I imagine grain silos look
 
2013-03-20 11:30:25 AM  

PsyLord: MythDragon: [media.salon.com image 660x440]

To be fair, he did sign up with Consumer Recreation Services to play a game. Obviously someone forgot to set up the inflatable bag to catch him. She should sue CRS.

/somewhat obscure?

How can a major movie starring Michael Douglas and Sean Penn be obscure?


That movie is old enough that I rented it on VHS tape when I saw it.

A 21-year-old Farker of today was in kindergarten when it was released.  So, yeah, obscurity through time passing, I suppose.  Or a well-kept secret among us old farts.

Good movie, though.
 
2013-03-20 11:31:09 AM  
'Disturbing the peace? I got thrown out of a window! What's the farkin' charge for getting pushed out of a moving car, huh? Jaywalking?'
 
2013-03-20 11:31:16 AM  

Pair-o-Dice: *Note to self: Keep the one level. DON'T move into a high-rise.*


If you do, go for a 2nd floor condo/apartment.  High enough to evade the zombie horde, low enough to jump out of in case of emergencies.
 
2013-03-20 11:32:55 AM  
How long was this submission in the queue?  She's already been sentenced.  Second-degree murder, 25 years.  She will have to serve at least 21 years and 3 months, which will (by that time) represent about half her life.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2295788/Amber-Hilberling-tri al -Mother-guilty-murder-pushing-Air-Force-husband-25th-floor-window.html

Additional information from other articles (not just the Daily Fail):
-> Amber was allegedly abusing her husband, not the other way around.  She hit him with a lamp about a month before his death, requiring stitches.  He applied for, but never completed, an emergency protective order against her.
-> Joshua's family said he'd packed up his belongings and was leaving Amber at the time of his death.
-> The prosecutors offered a 5-year plea deal but were turned down.
 
2013-03-20 11:36:38 AM  

lack of warmth: PoochUMD: According to another article, she was abusive to him, told his parents that if they stayed together she'd probably end up killing him and the fight happened after she found out he packed his bags and was leaving her.

Doesn't sound like self defense to me.

Did she send the bags with him?


She shoved the bags into his arms and that's what propelled him out the window. The bags were filled with gold and when he hit the ground all the nearby villagers raided the bounty. Then Robin swung into the window and fought the Sheriff, killing him with the dagger he had earlier gifted to Marian. The witch was about to finish them off but then Azeem, sensing what was going on like a glass repairman with the powers of Spider-man, burst through the door and hurled his knife through her unholy chest. His promise has been fulfilled.

You know it's true...everything I do...
 
2013-03-20 11:37:26 AM  

ZAZ: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garry_Hoy


I was working in the adjacent tower when that occurred.
 
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